>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

WE BEGIN TONIGHT AS WE DO EVERY MONDAY, WITH OUR FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

LOOK AHEAD AT THE NEWS MAKING HEADLINES.

TONIGHT WE FOCUS ON THE VACCINE ROLL-OUT AND NEW VARIANTS OF THE VIRUS EMERGE.

WE ALSO EXAM THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOVERNOR CUOMO AND SENATOR SCHUMER AS HE TAKES COMMAND OF THE SENATE.

JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS THESE AND OTHER ISSUES ARE THE ANCHOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF LATINO USA, EDITORIAL BOARD MEMBER AT THE NEW YORK DAILY BUZ AND A POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, ATTORNEY, FACULTY MEMBER AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE NY BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

IMPRESSIVE BUNCH.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY, GUYS.

SO LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS THAT GOVERNOR CUOMO FIRST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR BLAMED MAYOR de BLASIO FOR WORKING TOO SLOW.

THEN HE SWITCHED AND STARTED BLAMING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR NOT GIVING US VACCINES.

NOW HE'S SAYING THAT WE'RE RUNNING OUT.

WHAT IS THE FULL STORY HERE?

>> THE FULL STORY IS THAT A LITTLE BIT OF PREVENTION WOULD HAVE MADE UP FOR THE SORT OF MASSIVE AMOUNT WE NEED TO MEET TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM NOW.

THE VACCINE ROLL-OUT, WE HAD MONTHS TO PREPARE.

GRANT IT, IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF A MASSIVE POLITICAL CRISIS, TOO, BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SOUGHT PLANS FROM THE VARIOUS STATES AND APPROVED THEM IN THE FALL, BUT THEY DIDN'T PLAN TO GIVE STATES ANY ADDITIONAL FUNDING OR PROVIDE THEM WITH HELP IN TERMS OF SETTING UP MASS VACCINATION SITES OR TRAINING PEOPLE TO VACCINATE WHO WEREN' ALREADY IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

BUT THE ORIGINAL FEDERAL PLAN RELIED ENTIRELY ON THE EXISTING HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND THE STAFF AND PHARMACIES TO DO ALL THE VACCINATIONS AND ALSO WANTED TO RELY ON EXISTING HEALTH CARE FACILITIES AND COMMUNITIES ACROSS AMERICA TO DISTRIBUTE THE VACCINE ITO GET SHOTS INTO ARMS AFTER ALL THIS MASSIVE EFFORT HAD BEEN PUT INTO DEVELOPING THE VACCINES.

AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT APPROACH TOTALLY FALL APART.

THE NEW ADMINISTRATION IS LESS THAN A WEEK OLD, AND THEY HAVE INHERITED THIS PROBLEM OF A LACK OF PREPARATION.

THEY CAN'T DO EVERYTHING THEMSELVES.

T AND WE'RE SEEING WE'RE A LITTLE BIT LATE TO THE GAME AND IT IS GOING TO TAKE SEVERAL WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS, TO MAKE UP FOR THE TIME THAT WE'VE LOST, AND THAT'S INCREDIBLY UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE WE'RE NOW BEING STRUCK WITH THESE MULTIPLE VARIANT MUTATIONS OF THE VIRUS.

THAT MEANS THAT WE ARE BATTLING AN ENEMY THAT IS MORE POWERFUL THAN IT WAS IN THE PAST YEAR.

>> SO, MARIA, ARE THE MEDS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, BY AND LARGE?

THEY BARE THE LION'S SHARE OF THE BLAME.

DOES CUOMO BARE ANY RESPONSIBILITY?

DOES de BLASIO?

ANYBODY ELSE?

>> WE HAVE TO REALIZE WE'RE COMING OUT OF FOUR YEARS OF AN ADMINISTRATION IN THE WHITE HOUSE THAT BASICALLY RAN ON CHAOS AND DESTRUCTION.

YOU KNOW, I KEEP THINKING WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THIS HAD HAPPENED UNDER ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT WOULD IT HAVE LOOKED LIKE?

WOULD WE STILL BE HERE BECAUSE I, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, AM INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATED.

OF COURSE I'M FRUSTRATED TO SEE FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

I'M A SURVIVOR, AND I'M STILL LOSING PEOPLE.

WE JUST HEARD THIS WEEKEND OF A 23-YEAR-OLD YOUNG WOMAN WHO CAME TO NEW JERSEY AND DIED.

SO THIS IS VERY REAL.

AND, AGAIN, I'M KIND OF LIKE EVERY DAY JUST GIVING THANKS TO BEING ALIVE AND ROOTING FOR EVERYBODY WHO IS INFECTED.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF I'M LOOKING FOR BLAME, IT IS ABSOLUTELY SQUARELY IN THE LAST ADMINISTRATION FOR HAVING NO POLICY WHATSOEVER, NO ORGANIZATION, NO FORESIGHT, NO CARE FOR PEOPLE.

SO AT THIS POINT, I THINK THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD A NATIONAL PLAN I DON'T THINK WE'D BE HERE.

AND I DO THINK THAT THE STATES HAVE TO PLAY CATCHUP.

AS LAURA SAID, THE STATES CAN'T PRINT ENOUGH MONEY TO DEAL WITH THIS REALITY.

SO IT MAKES ME SAD.

I WOULD LOVE TO GET THE VACCINE.

OF COURSE I WANT PEOPLE TO GET IT AHEAD OF TIME WHO NEED IT.

BUT I'M AN IN PERSON COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

I KIND OF COULD QUALIFY.

IT'S JUST LIKE, OKAY, IT'S NOT GOING TO -- I TRY.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON, AND THAT'S FRUSTRATING, RIGHT?

>> AND LOOKING IS HARD.

>> THERE IS ANOTHER ELEMENT OF THIS THAT I THINK IS SO IMPORTANT THAT I THINK WE ALL NEED TO FOCUS ON, WHICH IS THE FACT THAT OUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE DELIVERY SYSTEM IN AMERICA, AND THIS IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

IT IS THE FAULT OF EVERYONE IN AMERICA, THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IS A SILO PRIVATIZED OFTEN MORE PROFIT SYSTEM WHERE INFORMATION IS NOT SHARED BETWEEN HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS.

IT IS NOT SHARED BETWEEN STATES.

THERE IS NOT SOME MASS RECORD OF EVERY PERSON IN AMERICA WITH THEIR E-MAIL ADDRESS IF THEY'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE INTERNET ACCESS IN ORDER TO LET THEM KNOW WHEN VACCINES ARE AVAILABLE, WHICH IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

WE DON'T HAVE NATIONAL MEDICAL RECORD SYSTEMS, IN PART BECAUSE OF OUR PRIVILEGING OF PERSONAL LIBERTIES AND PRIVACIES IN THE UNITED STATES BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF PROFIT MOTIVES THAT HOSPITAL SYSTEMS AND HEALTH CARE DELIVERY SYSTEMS HAVE IN KEEPING RECORDS PRIVATE AND KEEPING PROPRIETARY INFORMATION TO OURSELVES AND THAT IS A HUGE FAILING OF SUCH PRIVATIZED MEDICAL SYSTEM.

IT'S NOT ONLY COSTLY.

IT IS ALSO COMPLETELY INEFFICIENT, AND WE ARE REALLY SEEING THE FRUITS OF THAT PROBLEM RIGHT NOW.

>> SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

THIS IS THE SYSTEM.

THIS IS THE FEDS UNDER TRUMP.

CUOMO, de BLASIO, DO THEY BARE ANY RESPONSIBILITY?

>> WE'RE WATCHING THE PANDEMIC IN A MODERN ERA.

WE HAVEN'T HAD THIS SINCE 1918, SO SEEING OUR PROGRESSES NOT FUNCTION IN PERFECT SYNERGY IS SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE US BETTER IN THE FUTURE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF LESSONS TO BE LEARNED.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT PREVIOUS GUESTS HAVE MENTIONED THAT ARE VITAL IN TERMS OF SHARING INFORMATION.

STATES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WORKING TOGETHER BETTER, GETTING FUNDING SOURCES OUT THERE.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN WE WIN THIS AS A PLANET IS THE INCREDIBLE SPEED IN WHICH WE NOW HAVE A VACCINE TO DEAL WITH THIS INCREDIBLE KILLER VIRUS THAT HAD TAKEN OUT SO IN PEOPLE WORLDWIDE.

I THINK THAT'S A TESTAMENT TO OUR SCIENTISTS.

I THINK IT'S A TESTAMENT TO OUR HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS, TO THE GROUND BREAKING SPEED IN WHICH WE'RE ABLE TO GET THIS VACCINE INTO THE ARMS OF PEOPLE.

THERE ARE MANY SHORTCOMINGS, AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT.

WE SAW IT IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM IN NEW YORK CITY.

WE SEE IT IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

GOVERNMENTS HAVE FAILED TO PREPARE, EVEN KNOWING WHAT WE HAVE KNOWN TO GET STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOMS IN AN EFFICIENT MANNER.

WE HAVE SEEN HOW GOVERNMENTS HAVE FAILED TO GET THE VACCINES INTO THE ARMS.

WE HAVE SEEN HOW DIFFERENT STATES ARE DOING IT DIFFERENTLY.

IN FLORIDA, THE GOVERNOR THERE, AND WE CAN DEBATE WHETHER OR NOT HE'S A GOOD GOVERNOR OR NOT, BUT WE HAVE SEEN HOW HE'S WORKED WITH PRIVATE INDUSTRY, INCLUDING SUPER MARKETS TO GET SOME OF THESE VACCINES INTO THE ARMS OF SENIORS AND LARGER NUMBERS WE SUE IN NEW YORK.

THERE IS A LOT MORE US TO LEARN.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO LEARN WHAT WE HAVE DONE RIGHT, WHAT WE HAVE DONE WRONG SO THAT WHAT THE NEXT STRAIN OR NEXT PANDEMIC IS, WE'RE BETTER PREPARE PREPARED.

>> WHAT CAN PRESIDENT BIDEN DO OR WHAT IS HE DOING THAT THE PRESIDENT TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS NOT DOING TO EASE THE PROBLEMS THAT EXIST?

>> I THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENT WAY OF GOVERNING.

AS A CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENT, I THINK TRUMP ACTED VERY DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK HE ALLOWED A LOT OF STATES RIGHTS, A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL ATTENTION TO WHAT A GOVERNOR IN THEIR OWN STATE DECIDES.

I THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH EITHER BY NATIONALIZING THAT.

I THINK IT IS A TESTAMENT TO HIS STYLE OF GOVERNING, WHICH IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT.

I THINK IN THE LONG-RUN, IT WILL BE BENEFICIAL NATIONWIDE TO HOW HE CURTAILS THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT THE NEW VARIANTS, VARIATIONS, THE NEW STRAINS OF THE VACCINE.

WE HAVE SEEN A VARIATION OF THE VARIANT IN SOUTH AFRICA.

APPARENTLY ONE IS EMERGING IN CALIFORNIA AS WELL.

WHAT WILL THAT MEAN?

I MEAN, WHAT DOES IT MEAN FIRST OF ALL TO THE VACCINE ROLL-OUT?

IS IT GOING TO MAKE IT ALL MOOT?

DO WE HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH?

AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR OUR FUTURE?

>> WELL, THE BEST AVAILABLE SCIENCE AT THIS POINT AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S STILL CHANGING IS THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE THE VACCINES MOOT, BUT IT COULD IMPACT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SOME OF THE VACCINES, THE SLIGHT VARIATIONS MEAN THAT THE VACCINE IS NOW COMING UNDER THE MARKET SLIGHTLY LESS EFFICACIOUS IN PREVENTING, BUT IT WILL STILL WORK.

JUST MAYBE NOT 95% EFFECTIVE OR 90% EFFECTIVE LIKE THE EARLY CLINICAL TRIALS.

BUT THE MESSAGE THAT A LOT OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS ARE PUTTING OUT THERE IS THAT WE SEE THESE VARIANTS HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS.

WE SEE IT HAPPENING BECAUSE THE VIRUS MUTATES WHEN IT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP GROWING AND SPREADING TO MORE PEOPLE.

SO THE MORE WE CAN SLOW THE SPREAD, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, THE MORE WE CAN PREVENT MORE NEW STRAINS OF THIS FROM EMERGING.

BUT IN THE SHORT-TERM, THIS IS EXTREMELY TROUBLING NEWS FOR US.

THIS IS ALREADY AN INCREDIBLY CONTAGIOUS, THE ORIGINAL STRAIN, AND SEEING THESE VARIANTS THAT ARE NOT ONLY MORE CONTAGIOUS BUT SOME EARLY EVIDENCE SHOWING MORE DEADLY WITH THE U.K.

VARIANT IS REALLY -- THIS IS NOT A FAIT ACCOMPLI THAT WE ARE GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS IN THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS.

THIS IS LIKE A GAME OF INCHES AT THIS POINT AND VERY TROUBLING, THE U.K. AND SOUTH AFRICA AND BRAZIL EXPERIENCE.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK, WILL WE WILL LOCKED DOWN FOR 2021?

>> I AM WRAPPING MY HEAD AROUND THIS EVERY DAY.

I THINK THE BIG LESSON IS WE ARE STRONGER THAN WE THINK.

IF ANYBODY WOULD HAVE TOLD US A YEAR AGO THAT WE WOULD BE APPROACHING A FULL YEAR IN LOCKDOWN OR MOST OF US IN LOCKDOWN, WE WOULD HAVE SAID THAT'S COMPLETELY CRAZY.

THAT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO WE ARE STRONGER THAN WE THINK.

WE ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THIS.

BUT WITHOUT A NATIONAL PLAN, I GUESS I'M A LITTLE BIT OLD SCHOOL AT THIS POINT.

I'M LIKE -- AND IT IS NOT LIKE I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN, BUT I'M LIKE GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE.

LET'S DO A TOTAL FULL SHUT DOWN COMPLETE THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE, OKAY, EXCEPT PEOPLE WILL NOT HAVE TIME TO BUY THEIR PAPER TOWELS AND THEIR TOILET PAPER BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE THREE WEEKS OF WARNING, GET READY AND THEN THE GOVERNMENT PAYS EVERYBODY TO STAY INSIDE, NOT GO TO WORK, NOT GO SHOPPING, NOT GO TO ANY OF THE STORES, NOT DO IT BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN BE AT SUCH A HIGH POINT OF THE VIRUS AND THINGS ARE SLOWLY OPENING UP, EVEN IN PLACES LIKE NEW YORK CITY.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

BY THE WAY, I'M A LUCKY HUMAN BEING BECAUSE IN A MATTER OF HOURS I WILL BE SPEAKING WITH DR. FAUCI.

SO I WILL BE ABLE TO ASK HIM ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I'M MOST CONCERNED ABOUT, WHICH IS IF WE ARE SO EDUCATED NOW ABOUT THIS VIRUS, HOW IS IT THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING INFECTED?

IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE OR ARE THEY GETTING INFECTED AND WE ARE JUST NOT UNDERSTANDING HOW.

>> WHAT YOU SAID IS TRUE BECAUSE EVEN AS THIS IS HAPPENING AND BRITAIN IS LOCKING DOWN PRETTY MUCH AS YOU SUGGESTED, WE HEAR FROM LEADERS WHO WERE STRICT LOCKDOWN PEOPLE LIKE THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN, LIKE THE MAYOR OF CHICAGO AND EVEN GOVERNOR CUOMO TALKING ABOUT, OH, WE GOT TO OPEN UP THE ECONOMY.

AND EVEN PRESIDENT BIDEN IS SAYING WE HAVE TO SPEED UP THE OPENING UP OF SCHOOLS.

HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT CIRCLE?

>> I THINK, AS LAURA SAID, WE'RE TALKING STRUCTURAL ISSUES HERE.

EVERYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY IS AFRAID OF SOCIALISM.

BUT THE THING IS IF THIS GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY WAS ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF ITS PEOPLE AND SAY THE PEOPLE COME FIRST, NOT ANYTHING ELSE, SO WE ARE GOING TO PAY YOU TO STAY HOME.

WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO SEND YOU CHECKS SO THAT, YES, SADLY, FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO MOSTLY ARE ESSENTIAL WORKERS AND DELIVERY AND ALL THOSE THINGS BUT THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO BUY THINGS AT LEAST ONLINE AND THAT WILL HELP KEEP THE ECONOMY GOING TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

BUT PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS BECAUSE WE HAVE A FAILED ECONOMY THAT GOES TO LARGER STRUCTURAL ISSUES.

THIS STATISTIC IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE.

ONE OUT OF EVERY 800 BLACK PEOPLE HAS DIED BECAUSE OF COVID-19.

LATINOS AND LATINAS ARE ON THE FRONT LINES IN TERMS OF THE DEATHS THAT THEY ARE BRINGING IN.

SO THIS IS A HUMAN STRATEGY.

AND I SAY MORE SACRIFICE SO THAT WE CAN GET OUT OF THIS SOONER.

>> I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION ABOUT THE REPORTS OF A NEW FEUD BETWEEN GOVERNOR CUOMO AND SENATOR SCHUMER EVEN AS SENATOR SCHUMER IS NOW LEADING THE U.S. SENATE.

WE TALK ABOUT THE FEUDS AND GOVERNOR CUOMO AND SOMETIMES WE JOKE ABOUT IT.

BUT IS IT REALLY THAT FUNNY ANYMORE WHERE IT SEEMS -- GO AHEAD.

>> IT'S NOT FUNNY.

IT IS EXPECTED.

YOU HAVE TWO SUPERSTARS.

YOU HAVE THE GOVERNOR OF ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT STATES IN OUR COUNTRY AND THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER COMING FROM THE SAME PLACE, FROM THE STATEMENT CITY.

SO YOU EXPECT TO SEE THESE TWO SUPERSTARS HAVE CONFLICT, ESPECIALLY WHEN ONE IS FOCUSSED ON THE NATIONAL AGENDA, THE OTHER IS FOCUSSED ON THE STATE AGENDA.

AND WHEN EVERYTHING IS RIGHT FOR FINGER POINTING ENVIRONMENT, YOU HEARD FROM A LAURA AND MARIA A LITTLE EARLIER ABOUT HOW DELICATE THE SITUATION IS AS FAR AS THE CALLS FOR NATIONALIZING THINGS.

HERE YOU HAVE THE GOVERNOR BASICALLY SAYING, HEY, NATIONAL GOVERNMENT, YOU HAVE TO BAIL US OUT.

YOU HAVE TO DO THIS.

AND LOOKING AT SENATOR SCHUMER LIKE, IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, WE'RE GOING TO FAIL AND IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT.

YOU CAN SEE THE CONFLICT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AGAIN.

THIS IS BOTH GOOD AND EXPECTED TO HAVE THIS TYPE OF CONFLICT BETWEEN LEADERS IN GOVERNMENT.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS HOW DO THEY END UP WORKING TOGETHER AT THE END OF THE DAY?

ARE THEY GOING TO WORK TOGETHER?

ARE THEY GOING TO JUST BLAME EACH OTHER FOR OUR SUBCOMMITTEES?

>> THAT'S THE QUESTION.

SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING, LOOK, PARTICULARLY IN POINTING AT CORONAVIRUS VACCINE AND HOW WE DEALT WITH IT IN NEW YORK STATE, THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH MUCH MORE EFFICIENTLY IF THERE HADN'T BEEN THE FEUD BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE MAYOR.

SO THESE FEUDS MAYBE ARE HAVING A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON NEW YORKERS.

>> I THINK THAT THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS WHEN IT COMES TO THE FEUD BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE MAYOR.

THE GOVERNOR IS A PERSON WHO IS EXTREMELY CLEVER AT POLITICS, VERY PRACTICAL A LOT OF THE TIME AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, IN MY DECADES PLUS COVERING HIM, THE ONLY TIME I HAVE SEEN HIM BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT IS IRRATIONAL POLITICALLY IS WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING INVOLVING MAYOR de BLASIO, HIS UNWILLINGNESS TO MOVE TO A FULL LOCKDOWN INITIALLY DURING THE PANDEMIC BECAUSE de BLASIO CALLED FOR IT FIRST, WAITING SEVERAL MORE DAYS TO ISSUE THE ORDER HIMSELF, MULTIPLE DIFFERENT LIKE THAT OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT CUOMO'S RELATIONSHIP WITH SCHUMER IS THE SAME SORT OF IRRATIONAL CONFLICT THAT IT IS WITH de BLASIO FROM MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION.

I THINK THEY HAVE A FUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP.

I THINK THAT CUOMO RESPECTS HUMOR IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND THAT THERE IS A LOT OF POLITICKING GOING ON HERE, WHEREAS THE FEUD BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE MAYOR IS A DEEPLY FELT DISLIKE THAT TRANSCENDS RATIONALITY IN WAYS THAT HAS BEEN, I THINK, FREQUENTLY HARMFUL TO NEW YORKERS.

>> SPEAKING OF SENATOR SCHUMER, HE HAS SCHEDULED FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT TRIAL FOR FEBRUARY 8th TO BEGIN AT THAT DATE.

>> WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

IS THE SENATE GOING TO CONFLICT?

>> I LOVE THAT YOU'RE ASKING, SO WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

TELL US.

>> YOU KNOW THAT I ALWAYS GO TO YOU FOR THE HARD QUESTIONS.

>> LOOK, THE TRUTH IS THAT HERE'S ONE THING THAT I LOVE THAT IS NOT HAPPENING, IS THAT EVERY TIME I'M GETTING MY NEWS ALERTS FROM MY PHONE, MY HEART IS NOT GOING INTO A STATE OF PANIC WONDERING WHAT HUMAN BEING WILL BE ABUSED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

SO THAT IS NOT HAPPENING.

I HAVE LIVED THROUGH NOW, R RAFAEL.

I HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE.

SO THE ALMOST IMPEACHMENT OF RICHARD NIXON, THE IMPEACHMENT OF BILL CLINTON AND NOW THIS EXPERIENCE HERE.

SO AS AN IMMIGRANT WHO CHOSE TO BECOME AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, AND THIS IS NOT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, A PERSONAL ISSUE WITH TRUMP OR NOT, THERE WERE LAWS THAT WERE BROKEN.

I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PEOPLE WHO WERE ELECTED TO SERVE, IF THEY'RE READING THE CONSTITUTION, THAT THEY HAVE TO CONFLICT.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SEMINAL MOMENTS IN THE COUNTRY.

SO I'M NOT -- I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT AS MUCH AS I WOULD HAVE BEEN AT ANOTHER TIME, BUT AM I CONCERNED THAT THEY WILL DO THE WRONG THING AND NOT CONVICT?

ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT KIND OF A MESSAGE DOES THAT SEND TO ALL OF US WHEN WE WATCH WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th, INCITED BY THIS PRESIDENT?

YOU KNOW WHAT, POLITICS IS A VERY CONNIVING KIND OF WORLD.

AND THERE MAY BE WHERE THEY THINK, THIS IS OUR TIME TO CUT AND RUN AND MAYBE NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO DONALD TRUMP ANYMORE.

>> YEAH.

I THINK SOME REPUBLICANS -- I THINK ROMNEY ALREADY SAID HE'S MORE IMPEACHMENT.

BUT, J.C., SOME CRITICS OF THE PROCESS ARE SAYING, LOOK, LOOK, HOLD ON.

YOU HAVE TO THINK AHEAD.

RICHARD NIXON LEFT OFFICE BECAUSE OF THE THREAT THAT HE WOULD BE IMPEACHED IF HE DIDN'T AND THAT IF THE LEGISLATORS IMPEACH THE NEXT PRESIDENT, BAD EX-PRESIDENTS WILL HAVE LESS MOTIVATION TO GET OUT OF TOWN.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> I THINK THE TERMS HAVE CHANGED A GREAT DEAL.

I THINK THAT POLITICALLY WE HAVE BECOME A LOT MORE PARTISAN TO RICHARD NIXON.

I THINK THE ADVENT OF SOCIAL MEDIA HAS MADE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO NOW HAVE INSTANTANEOUS NEWS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE REVIEW AND MAKE A DECISION.

I THINK THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THERE TO BE THE 17 REPUBLICAN VOTES TO CONVICT THE PRESIDENT, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IT'S JUST NOT THERE.

I DON'T SEE HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET 17.

ANY REPUBLICAN U.S.

SENATOR THAT VOTES TO CONFLICT THE PRESIDENT IS MARKED FOR DEATH IN A PRIMARY.

JUST THE TWITTER ONSLAUGHT, THE SOCIAL MEDIA ONSLAUGHT WILL BE INCREDIBLE.

AND I THINK IT'S ABOUT DID HE DO WRONG.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY THE SENATORS ARE THINKING TO THEMSELVES, AM I NOT GOING TO HAVE A JOB NEXT TIME?

AM I NO LONGER GOING TO BE A SENATOR?

THAT'S REALLY THE MOTIVATING FACTOR HERE.

IN ADDITION, THEY WILL ALSO JUSTIFY NOT PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE IMPEACHMENT BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HEARD EARLIER.

YOU HAVE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SUFFERING WITHOUT ANY PAY.

THEIR BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED.

PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR HOW TO GET OUT OF THIS COVID CRISIS.

AND THEY MAY SEE THE TRIAL AS A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME CONSIDERING THE PRESIDENT IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

THE IDEA THAT WHAT HAPPENED ON JAN 6th IS AWFUL, SHOULD BE CRIMINAL, ALL OF THAT WILL BE MOOT TO A LOT OF SENATORS BECAUSE HE'S NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

WE HAVE BIGGER THINGS TO TAKE CARE OF AND THE FACT THAT THE PRIMARY MAY BE THE END OF THEIR POLITICAL CAREER.

>> AND THAT'S WHERE LEADERSHIP IS WHAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S WHAT THE TEST OF THIS MOMENT IS FOR THIS DEMOCRACY, BECAUSE, OKAY, THEN IT REALLY JUST COMES DOWN TO OUR SELF-INTEREST OR, OH, MY GOD, FIVE PEOPLE DIED.

I MEAN, MANY, MANY MORE.

DON'T EVEN BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT THE IMMIGRANTS IN DETENTION FACILITIES, RIGHT?

BUT HOW -- AND GEORGE FLOYD, BREONNA TAYLOR, OKAY.

BUT THAT IS THE KEY MOMENT.

OUR COUNTRY THEN BECOMES THAT, IT IS TOTAL SELF-INTEREST.

IT IS LIKE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS.

OKAY, THE UNITED STATES IS PREPARED TO LIVE WITH THE MOST CLEAREST FORM OF WHITE SUPREMACY.

WE ALL SAW IT.

IT'S THOSE PROTESTS, THOSE RIOTERS HAD BEEN PROTESTERS FROM THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED?

WE ALL KNOW.

THEREFORE, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND, YEAH, THAT'S TRUE, VERY CALCULATING, BUT I CONTINUE TO HOPE THAT THIS COUNTRY, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T GIVE UP HOPE.

>> SO WE HAVE ABOUT A MIN UTE LEFT.

PRESIDENT BIDEN SPOKE ABOUT UNITY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR HIM SLVOTED IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE UNITY PEOPLE WERE MISSING.

LAURA, LET ME START WITH YOU.

AFTER THE IMPEACHMENT OR EVEN BEFORE, ARE WE GOING TO GET THIS UNITY?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE IT ANY TIME SOON?

>> NOT WITHOUT HAVING A RATIONAL RECKONING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT PRODUCED DONALD TRUMP AND ALLOWED HIM TO BE ELECTED IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THAT ULTIMATELY LED UP TO THE RIOT, WHICH I THINK IS A FUNDAMENTAL ATMOSPHERE OF PARANOIA, DISTRUST IN THE GOVERNMENT, ECONOMIC INEQUALITY AND AT THE VERY ROOT OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT IS THIS RACISM, RACIAL INEQUALITY, RACIAL INJUSTICE.

AND UNTIL EVERYONE ACCEPTS THE BASIC FACTS OF WHAT AMERICA'S HISTORY HAS BEEN, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET UNIFIED.

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE UNITY WITH ABOUT 56% OF THE COUNTRY, TRUTHFULLY.

I THINK 56% OF US ARE GOING TO LOOK AT WHAT LAURA JUST MENTIONED AND SAY, WE HAVE MORE THAN UNITES US THAN DIVIDES US.

LET'S SEE WHAT GOT US HERE AND WORK TOGETHER FOR A BETTER FUTURE.

BUT I DON'T SEE THAT NUMBER INCREASING OVER THAT.

>> MARIA?

>> I'M WORRIED RIGHT NOW THAT AFTER WHAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN THROUGH, I THINK IT'S JUST -- I HATE TO SAY THIS BECAUSE I'M ALL ABOUT UNITY.

BUT THERE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.

THERE HAS TO BE HONESTY.

THERE HAS TO BE ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT EVERYTHING DID TO LEAD UP TO THIS MOMENT.

AND THEN I THINK WE CAN BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT UNITY.

BUT WE NEED SOME TIME.

WE NEED SOME TIME TO PIECE THIS HORROR THAT WE HAVE ALL LIVED THROUGH IN OUR MINDS AND BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT POTENTIALLY HAVING THAT CONVERSATION OF UNITY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO END WITH THAT VNOTE.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

I HOPE THAT YOU DIDN'T MIND THAT JENNA WASN'T HERE AND THAT I WAS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, RAFAEL.

>> OKAY.

BYE-BYE.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN KUNI FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.