>>> TONIGHT, AS NEW YORK TAKES ITS FIRST LEGAL HIT, WHAT DOES THE FUTURE OF POT LOOK LIKE IN THE EMPIRE STATE?

WHEN MORE DISPENSARIES MIGHT OPEN UP, AND COULD THE STATE CRACK DOWN FURTHER ON BUSINESSES ALREADY SELLING ILLEGALLY?

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IT TOOK LONGER THAN MANY NEW YORKERS PROBABLY WANTED OR EVEN EXPECTED, BUT LEGAL RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA IS FINALLY FOR SALE IN THE EMPIRE STATE.

JUST LAST MONTH, THE NONPROFIT HOUSING WORKS OPENED THE FIRST DISPENSARY AND LINES STRETCHED AROUND THE BLOCK IN THE VILLAGE.

FOR WEEKS IT WAS THE ONLY RECREATIONAL BUSINESS IN TOWN, BUT THAT ALL CHANGED IN JANUARY WHEN THE FIRST DISPENSARY OWNED BY A JUSTICE IMPACTED INDIVIDUAL OPENED UP SHOP IN MANHATTAN.

IT'S THE FIRST OF POTENTIALLY DOZENS OF SUCH BUSINESSES AS THE STATE PRIORITIZES THOSE HURT MOST BY THE OVERPOLICING OF POT.

AS THE LEGAL ROLLOUT MOVES AHEAD, THERE ARE ALSO STILL HUNDREDS OF LEGAL DISPENSARIES FACING A CRACKDOWN.

FOR MUCH MORE ON THE FUTURE OF CANNABIS IN NEW YORK, WE'D LIKE TO WELCOME CHARLES KING.

HE'S CEO OF HOUSING WORKS, THE NONPROFIT THAT OPENED THE STATE'S FIRST RECREATIONAL DISPENSARY AND SUPPORTS PEOPLE LIVING THE HIV AND AIDS.

CHARLES, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> I'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME DR. MIKA'IL DEVEAUX.

HE IS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CANNABIS SOCIAL EQUITY COALITION IN NEW YORK.

IN NEW YORK STATE, EXCUSE ME, WHICH ADVOCATES FOR COMMUNITIES DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY NEW YORK'S DRUG LAWS.

MIKA'IL, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME BRAD RACINO, THE EDITOR AND PUBLISHER OF NEW YORK CANNABIS INSIDER, THE FIRST AND ONLY PUBLICATION DEDICATED TO COVERING THE STATE'S CANNABIS MARKETPLACE.

BRAD, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.

IF.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

THANKS SO MUCH.

>> WITH ALL OF THAT IN MIND, CHARLES, I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU AND JUST GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT IT'S BEEN LIKE HAVING YOUR DISPENSARY OPEN, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE DEMAND THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE FROM SO MANY NEW YORKERS.

>> SO, AS YOU INDICATED IN YOUR INTRODUCTION, WE OPENED TO LINES LITERALLY AROUND THE ENTIRE BLOCK.

SINCE THEN WE HAVE HAD LINES WHEN WE OPEN AND THROUGHOUT MOST OF THE DAY EVERY SINGLE DAY SINCE WE HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT A LICENSED SHOP IS WE ARE PROCURING FROM PRODUCERS WHO ARE HAVING THEIR DRUGS LABORATORY TESTED SO PEOPLE KNOW THE QUALITY OF THE DRUGS THEY'RE BUYING, THE THC AMOUNT IS ACCURATE, SO PEOPLE ARE GETTING SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE BOUGHT BEFORE IN AN ILLEGAL MARKET WHERE THE QUALITY IS NOT AS SECURE.

>> MIKA'IL, I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH CONVERSATION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF INCLUDING JUSTICE IN A LOT OF THESE NEW DISPENSARY BUSINESSES.

FROM YOUR TAKE, HOW DO YOU SEE THAT BEING HANDLED BY THE STATE THUS FAR?

>> THE FIRST THING I THINK IS IMPORTANT TO BEGIN BY SAYING ALL ALONG THAT IT IS THE HOPE OF THE CANNABIS SOCIAL EQUITY COALITION THAT NEW YORK SUCCEED.

AND THAT NEW YORK BE THE MODEL AMONG ALL OTHER STATES THAT WE GET THE SOCIOEQUITY COMPONENT RIGHT.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THOSE THAT ARE FAMILIAR WITH BOTH THE INTENT AND SPIRIT OF THE LEGISLATION WOULD HOPE THAT IT COULD BE IMPLEMENTED TO FIDELITY AND PROVIDE SOME KIND OF REDRESS FOR, AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN MOST HARMED BY POLICY ISSUES OF THE PAST, PARTICULARLY BLACK COMMUNITIES.

BUT WHAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE ABOUT THIS NOTION OF MOST HARM IS THAT IT INCLUDES MORE THAN JUST THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN TRADITIONALLY CHARACTERIZED AS BEING JUSTICE INVOLVED.

IT INCLUDES THEIR COMMUNITIES AS WELL.

WHEN YOU MENTION, YOU KNOW, THE DRUG LAWS, THE DRUG LAWS WERE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO DISEMPOWER AND FURTHER MARGINALIZE SOME OF THOSE COMMUNITIES.

SO, IN TERMS OF THE CURRENT SOCIAL EQUITY COMPONENT BEING PUSHED OUT, YES, THERE ARE PROVISIONS FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN QUOTED ASSAYING CANNABIS LIQUOR STORES, BUT THE INTENTION OF THE LEGISLATION WAS TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES, MEMBERS OF THOSE COMMUNITIES, EVEN THOSE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ARRESTED TO BE IN POSITIONS TO ACQUIRE GENERATIONAL WEALTH.

EVEN THOUGH THE DISPENSARIES ARE A JOB PROVIDING KIND OF OPPORTUNITY, WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS REALLY SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE LEGISLATION INTENDED FOR REDRESSING THAT HARM.

>> BRAD, GIVEN WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM BOTH GENTLEMAN, I WANT TO BRING YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION AND ALSO ASK -- YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE WE DIDN'T KNOW THERE WASN'T A MARKETPLACE FOR THIS, SO WHY HAS THE ROLLOUT SEEMED TO PERHAPS FEEL SO SLOW TO A LOT OF PEOPLE?

>> IT'S ALWAYS FUN TO CRITICIZE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, AND WE CERTAINLY HAVE DONE OUR FAIR SHARE AT NEW YORK CANNABIS INSIDER, BUT THE REALITY IS THIS AGENCY STOOD UP THE COMPONENTS OF AN ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM WITHIN A YEAR AND A HALF OR SO.

THE OCM, THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT AND THE CANNABIS CONTROL BOARD WEREN'T FORMED UNTIL OCTOBER OF 2021.

MRTA, THE LAW THAT LEGALIZED CANNABIS WAS PASSED BY GOVERNOR CUOMO IN 2021, BUT HE NEVER DID ANYTHING WITH IT, HE NEVER APPOINTED ANYBODY, AND IT TOOK GOVERNOR HOCHUL HER FIRST WEEK IN OFFICE TO GET TO APAYMENTS AND GET THE BALL ROLLING.

WHEN SHE DID, THEY HAD FIVE STAFF MEMBERS TO COME UP WITH ALL THE REGULATIONS AND GUIDANCE AND EVERYTHING.

THAT'S A HUGE UNDERTAKING SO TO FUNCTION AS A GOVERNMENT AGENCY TAKES SOME TIME.

NOW, DID THEY MAYBE KIND OF SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT EARLY ON BY OVERPROMISING THE TIME LINE?

ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE EXPECTING THINGS TO HAPPEN A LOT QUICKER.

AND THERE'S ALSO BEEN MIXED MESSAGING ABOUT THE TIME LINE TO OPEN THESE FIRST STORES AND WHEN LEGALIZATION WOULD FULLY BE IMPLEMENTED, AND AGAIN, THAT CAME FROM MESSAGING FROM THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.

BUT THERE WERE ALSO STUMBLING BLOCKS ALONG THE WAY, THE BIGGEST ONE BEING THE FUNDS.

SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF GOVERNMENT AGENCIES RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS ROLLOUT, ONE OF THEM BEING THE DORMITORY AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PICKING A FUND MANAGER TO RAISE A $150 MILLION FROM PRIVATE INVESTORS.

THAT MONEY IS THEN SUPPOSED TO GO TOWARD IDENTIFYING, SECURING, RETROFITTING UP TO 150 DISPENSARIES ACROSS THE STATE FOR JUSTICE IMPACTED INDIVIDUALS, WHO ARE THE FIRST LICENSEES.

WELL, THE STATE PLEDGED $50 MILLION TOWARDS THAT $150 MILLION, AND THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT THE STATE IS DRAWING FROM TO START INSTRUCTING THESE DISPENSARIES, BUT THE REST OF MA MONEY, AS FAR AS WE KNOW, HAS NOT BEEN RAISED, WHICH ISN'T A SURPRISE, BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO RAISE CANNABIS MONEY NO MATTER WHAT STATE YOU'RE IN.

THE STATE HAS NOT TALKED ABOUT THIS MUCH.

THEY'RE NOT BEING TRANSPARENT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE FUNDING AND WHEN TO ACTUALLY EXPECT THESE FUTURE RETAILERS TO OPEN UP SHOP.

SO THERE'S JUST BEEN, I THINK, A LOT OF -- I'M SO TIRED OF THIS CLICHE, BUT I'LL USE IT AGAIN -- FLYING THE PLANE WHILE BUILDING IT IN THE AIR, AND THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF.

SOME OF THESE ROAD BLOCKS, STUMBLING BLOCKS ARE EXPECTED, AND SOME OF THEM ARE SELF-IMPOSED OUT OF GOVERNMENT AGENCIES THEMSELVES BUT TO BE FAIR, AGAIN, IT TAKES A LOT OF WORK TO GET THIS GOING.

>> CHARLES, DOES ANY OF WHAT WE JUST HEARD FROM BRAD JIVE WITH WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I WANT TO NOTE HOUSING IS FOCUSED INTO MOVING INTO CANNABIS.

WE ARE HIRING PEOPLE WHO HAVE CANNABIS RELATED CONVICTIONS AS OUR EMPLOYEES, AND WE'RE ROLLING OUT A TRAINING PROGRAM THAT WILL ALLOW THEM TO MOVE UP IN THE INDUSTRY.

THEY WERE PUNISHED FOR BEING A PART OF THE INDUSTRY BEFORE IT WAS ILLEGAL -- BEFORE IT WAS LEGAL, AND WE WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM THE OPPORTUNITIES AND EVERYONE TO THE POINT OF HOUSING WORKS SUPPORTING OUR EMPLOYEE AS THEY GO THROUGH THE TRAINING PROCESS IN SECURING THEIR OWN LICENSES TO GET IN THE INDUSTRY.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO RELY ON THE DORMITORY AUTHORITY FUNDS UNLESS SOMETHING REALLY CHANGES IN TERMS OF BRINGING IN MORE REVENUE, AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE ALREADY LOOKING AT IS NEGOTIATING THE POSSIBILITY OF LOW INTEREST LOANS THAT WE COULD SECURE FOR THEM THROUGH -- THROUGH SOURCES THAT FOCUS ON LENDING TO LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES AS A WAY TO HELP THEM LEVERAGE THEMSELVES INTO THE BUSINESS.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MAYBE HALF A DOZEN JUSTICE-INVOLVED LICENSE SHOPS COME INTO BEING WHO CAN SWING IT ON THEIR OWN, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY ARE GOING TO RELY ON OUTSIDE CAPITAL IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.

AND FRANKLY, EVEN THE OTHER NONPROFITS THAT HAVE BEEN LICENSED TO GO AHEAD AND START UP, THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE STRUGGLING TO FIND THE FUNDS TO DO IT.

HOUSING WORKS IS A VERY LARGE ORGANIZATION.

WE HAVE $150 MILLION A YEAR BUDGET, SO FOR US IT WAS NOT A HUGE LIFT.

BUT I THINK FOR A LOT OF OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO LEVERAGE THE CAPITAL.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO FEAR IS THAT THE COMMERCIAL MARKET WILL TAKE OVER EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE BEEN DELAYED BY A YEAR, AND THEY'LL COME TO DOMINATE THE MARKET HERE IN NEW YORK STATE.

>> I MEAN, A LOT OF WHAT WE JUST HEARD FROM CHARLES SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGER CHALLENGES THAT TENDS TO FACE PARTICULARLY MINORITY BUSINESSES WHEN THEY'RE GETTING START UP, AND THAT'S OF COURSE GETTING ACCESS TO THE CAPITAL, BEING ABLE TO COMPETE WITH PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESSES, ET CETERA, THAT HAVE A STRONGER FOOTING, IF YOU WILL, IN THE MARKETPLACE, OR AT LEAST IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH BUSINESSES IMPACTS THAT ARE OWNED AT LEAST BY PEOPLE WHO ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY THE LAWS, ARE THEY BEING SET UP FOR SUCCESS?

OR ARE THEY JUST BEING ALLOWED TO OPERATE BY THE STATE?

>> WELL, I'M LEANING TO MORE SOME OF THE POINTS THAT CHARLES MADE.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME AS-IS PROBLEMS WITH THE DISPRESENCERIES, AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS TO PARTICIPATE IN PUBLIC DISCOURSE AND SHIFT THE NARRATIVE FROM THE -- WHAT'S BEING TOLD IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING THAT'S RUNNING SMOOTHLY.

AS HAS BEEN ALLUDED TO, THERE'S GOING TO BE PROBLEMS WITH THE QUALITY AND SAFETY OF SOME OF THE PRODUCT, PRIMARILY BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT OCM'S CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER SAID, THAT 80% OF THE PRODUCT GROWN BY A LOT OF THESE HEMP FARMERS ARE GOING TO BE OF QUESTIONABLE QUALITY AND SAFETY.

MOST IS GOING TO BE BIOMASS.

A LOT OF SOCIAL EQUITY OWNERS ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFICULTY BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY EDUCATION OR TRAINING OR INCUBATION SUPPORT THAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED TO RUN A HIGHLY RATED CANNABIS BUSINESS.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, YOU KNOW, AS CHARLES ALLUDED TO, SOME OF THESE FOLKS ARE GOING TO STEP INTO THIS SPACE AND WIND UP BEING STRAPPED WITH A LOT OF DEBT AND A LOT OF INTEREST -- HIGH INTEREST RATES IN ORDER TO PAY BACK MONEY THAT PERHAPS DASNY USED TO DEVELOP THOSE DISPENSARIES.

I DON'T BELIEVE THEY'RE PUTTING TOGETHER THESE DISPENSARIES AND GIVING IT TO THE LICENSE HOLDERS FOR FREE.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY BACK SOME SOFT THIS MONEY, AND THIS MONEY'S GOING TO BE A LARGE AMOUNT, AND IT'S GOING TO BE AT A HIGH INTEREST RATE.

AGAIN, WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE ARE BEING POSITIONED FOR SUCCESS, THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT SUPPORT THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE.

EVERYBODY, AS CHARLES ALLUDED TO, IS NOT GOING TO BE LIKE HOUSING WORKS.

AND BECAUSE OF THIS FAIL YOUR TO RAISE $150 MILLION, THE STATE SEEMS TO BE PIVOTING TO A POSITION TO ENCOURAGE FUTURE LICENSE HOLDERS PRETTY MUCH THE GO FOR THEMSELVES AND ESTABLISH THEIR OWN DISPENSARIES.

SO WITHOUT THAT SUPPORT, THE -- THE DISPENSARY OWNERS ARE GOING TO BE IN FOR A ROUGH RIDE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR FOCUS, BECAUSE WE ARE A STATEWIDE ORGANIZATION, INCLUDES THE PERSPECTIVE OF PEOPLE IN ROCHESTER AND BUFFALO AND UPSTATE NEW YORK AND THESE OTHER VARIOUS PLACES WHO ARE NOT INTERESTED IN JUST HAVING DISPENSARIES IN TERMS OF -- WE WERE QUOTED IN THE HOLIDAY UNION TIMES OF SAYING THAT CANNABIS LIQUOR STORES ARE NOT OPPORTUNITIES FOR GENERATING GENERATIONAL WEALTH.

THEY ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH JOBS, WHICH WE'RE SAYING ARE GOOD THINGS, BUT THERE'S MORE TO THE CONVERSATION THAN JUST DISPENSARIES.

SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, ARE PEOPLE BEING SET UP FOR FAILURE?

IT DEPENDS.

>> OKAY.

WELL, THEN, GIVEN WHAT WE'VE JUST HEARD, BRAD, AND WHAT YOU TOLD US EARLIER ABOUT HOW THE AGENCY ITSELF ISN'T PROPERLY STAFFED, IS THE STATE READY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE ISSUES WE JUST HEARD?

>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE TRYING THEIR BEST.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY'RE AT ABOUT HALF STAFF RIGHT NOW WHERE THEY HOPE TO BE EVENTUALLY.

THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN.

I KNOW A FEW OF THE FOLKS THERE WHO -- YOU KNOW, WE MAY BUTT HEADS, BUT THEY'RE HARD WORKING.

THEY'RE TRYING TO GET STUFF DONE, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO OVERCOME, A LOT OF THINGS TO ADDRESS, AND MORE SPECIFICALLY, THERE ARE ISSUES WITHIN THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY FROM GROWING TO PROCESSING TO LABS TO RETAIL THAT ONLY PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY KNOW, AND THERE'S NOBODY IN THE OCM WHO WAS A LEGACY GROWER.

THERE'S NOBODY ON THE CANNABIS CONTROL BOARD WHO SOLD WEED.

EVEN THE CANNABIS ADVISORY BOARD, WHICH IS THIS BOARD THEY CAME UP WITH THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO ADVISE THE OCM AND ALSO OVERSEE THIS TAXPAYER FUND, THE TAXES THAT COME FROM THE SALES OF THE RECREATIONAL WEED THAT WILL BEING -- BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO ALLOCATE THOSE FUNDS, THERE'S ONE PERSON WHO WAS A GROWER.

BUT I THINK THE MAIN COMPLAINTS THAT I HEARD FROM EVERYBODY IS BASICALLY THAT THE AGENCY ISN'T FULLY LISTENING TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT AND WHO ARE PROVIDING ADVICE AND FEEDBACK AND THEY'RE NOT SEEING THAT ADVICE ACTUALIZED.

IT'S ONLY TO THE POINT WHERE IF WE PUBLISH ABOUT IT OR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" PUBLISHES A PIECE, THE AGENCY MIGHT PIVOT AND DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE GROWERS NOT PASSING, THAT WAS MONTHS AGO.

I REMEMBER HEARING FROM GROWERS ON A CALL, 40 OR 50 OR THEM, NONE OF THEM PASSED TESTING STANDARDS.

WE WROTE ABOUT THAT.

A WEEK LATER THE OCM CHANGED GROWING STANDARDS AND RELAXED IT.

SO IT'S LIKE, IF THEY TAKE THAT FEEDBACK, INCORPORATE IT AND ACTUALIZE IT, THEN I THINK THEY'RE ON THE ROAD TO HAVING A SUCCESSFUL MARKET.

BUT IF THEY'RE JUST GOING TO GO AT IT THE WAY THEY WANT TO DO IT AND THE WAY THEY SEE IS RIGHT, DESPITE FEEDBACK, THAT'S GOING TO BE PROBLEMATIC, AND IT IS PROBLEMATIC RIGHT NOW.

I COULD GIVE A TON OF EXAMPLES.

I WON'T.

A LOT OF THINGS IN THIS INDUSTRY, THEY'RE NOT PLAYING OUT THE WAY THEY SHOULD OR BASED ON LESSONS LEARNED FROM OTHER STATES.

REMEMBER, WE'RE NOT THE FIRST STATE TO LEGALIZE THIS.

A LOT OF STATES HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE AND THEY HAVE FAILED AND SUCCEED IN THE SOME PLACES, AND TO OCM'S CREDIT THEY HAVE GONE OUT AND STUDIED THOSE OTHER STATES AND TALKED TO PEOPLE IN THOSE OTHER STATES.

BUT HOW MUCH ARE THEY INCORPORATING THAT?

AND ALSO HOW MUCH POLITICS IS IT PLAYING?

LET'S BE HONEST.

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL RAN ON THIS PROMISE OF HAVING THESE DISPENSARIES OPEN BY NEW YEAR'S DAY.

SHE TOLD US IN OCTOBER THERE WILL BE 20 OPEN BY JANUARY 1st, AND THEN 20 EVERY MONTH AFTER.

THAT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HAPPEN.

BUT THERE WAS HUGE PRESSURE TO OPEN.

HOUSING WORKS GOT THE FIRST ONE OPEN.

THEY DID IT.

THERE'S THOSE EGOS AND POLITICS AT PLAY BETWEEN DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

I KNOW EVERYBODY HAS THEIR AGENDAS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE PEOPLE WHO WERE LEFT HOLDING THE BAG ARE THE PEOPLE SAYING THEY'RE TRYING TO HELP.

ALL THE RETAILERS, OBVIOUSLY, BUT ALL THE GROWERS.

THERE'S NOT A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE GROWERS WHO ARE DESTROYED DURING THE CBD CRAZE AND WENT DISRUPT.

ON THE WEST COAST IN WASHINGTON AND OREGON, THERE WAS A RASH OF FARMER SUICIDES.

SAME THING HERE.

WHEN THE FARMERS SAY THE PROMISE OF GETTING INTO THC, IT TOOK A LOT OF RISK TO GO DO IT AGAIN AND TRUST GOVERNMENT AGAIN, AND NOW THEY'RE, AGAIN, KIND OF LEFT HOLDING THE BAG.

THEY'RE NEVER THANKED, NEVER APPLAUDED, NEVER TALKED ABOUT.

IT'S A WHOLE FOCUS, AND RESPECTFULLY TO HOUSING WORKS, BUT THE WHOLE FOCUS IS ON RETAIL.

THERE'S SO MUCH BEFORE THAT, AND IT'S JUST A -- IT'S A STRANGE MIX, AND I THINK THAT THEY JUST -- THE AGENCIES REALLY NEED TO START LISTENING A LITTLE BIT MORE AND TAKING CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK OR NONCONSTRUCTIVE AND JUST LISTENING TO PEOPLE AND INCORPORATING THAT INTO THEIR PLANS MOVING FORWARD.

>> I'M ALSO WONDERING, OF COURSE, CHARLES, I KNOW THAT YOUR DISPENSARY IS RECREATIONAL, BUT THERE ARE A LARGE NUMBER OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA USER AS WELL IN THE STATE, AND GIVEN WHAT WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THE STANDARDS BEING CHANGED, RELAXED -- WHATEVER YOUR WORD MIGHT BE -- ABOUT THE MARIJUANA THAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO BUY NOW, IS THAT ALSO SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE THERE FOR MEDICAL REASONS AND NOT RECREATIONAL?

>> OH, TO BE SURE.

AND THE FACT THAT THE STANDARDS HAVE BEEN RELAXED, FRANKLY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IS A GOOD THING, BECAUSE IT HAS ALLOWED GROWERS AND PRODUCTS TO -- PRODUCERS TO MOVE PRODUCT OUT INTO THE MARKET.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE OUT OF EDIBLES, BECAUSE THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF EDIBLES WAITING TO GET APPROVED THROUGH THE LAB.

AYE GLAD THE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT LISTENED TO FOLK AND LOWERED SOME OF THOSE STANDARDS.

WE ARE STILL GETTING GOOD QUALITY PRODUCT WHERE WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH THC, EXACTLY HOW MUCH CBD IS IN THE PRODUCTS WE ARE SELLING.

WE ALSO KNOW THEY'RE NOT ADULTERATED.

WE KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE THINGS IN THEM THAT WOULD HARM PEOPLE WHO USE THEM, WHICH YOU CAN'T SAY ABOUT THE PRODUCT THAT'S BEING SOLD IN THE UNLICENSED MARKET.

>> MIKA'IL, I'M WONDERING, ESPECIALLY FOR -- I'LL BE FRANK -- COMMUNITIES OF COLOR THAT HAVE BEEN DISPROPORTIONATELY POLICED OVER THIS ISSUE, IS THERE ANY CONCERN OR, I DON'T KNOW, ANY ISSUE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT NOT ONLY DO PEOPLE KNOW THERE ARE THESE ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS BUT PERHAPS JUST CHANGING A BEHAVIOR PATTERNS?

SAY IF YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING A CERTAIN WAY FOR A LONG TIME AND IT'S BEEN WORKING, THEN IT MIGHT BE HARD TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR PATTERN.

AND ON TOP OF THAT ALSO I WONDER HOW THAT ALSO AFFECTS PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES THE POLICING.

BECAUSE IT'S STILL ILLEGAL AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

>> VERY INTERESTING QUESTION.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO KNOW IS THAT THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN THE UNDERSTOOD GROUND MARKET WISH TO, IF THERE WAS A CLEAR WAY FOR THEM TO INTEGRATE INTO THE LEGAL MARKET, FOR THEM TO DO SO.

LET ME GO BACK TO ONE OF THE POINTS THAT ONE OF THE GENTLEMAN MADE.

I THINK THAT THE STATE WAS MOVING TOO FAST IN TERM OF TRYING TO GET THIS OUT FOR WHAT MAY APPEAR TO BE POLITICAL REASONS.

I SAY THAT PRIMARILY BECAUSE THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN I THINK INCUBATION MONEY TO HELP PEOPLE DEVELOP CAPACITY, TO HELP PARTICULARLY SOCIAL EQUITY APPLICANTS WITH EDUCATION AND TRAINING, WAS NEEDED FIRST FOR THEM TO EVEN BE COMPETITIVE.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL BYPASSED THE SOCIAL EQUITY GROUP EVERYONE WHEN, AS HAS BEEN SAID, WE THOUGHT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT A FLOWER.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL CAME OUT WITH A SEEDING OPPORTUNITY INITIATIVE THAT WAS TO BENEFIT FAMILY FARMERS, WHICH WERE NEVER -- THIS GROUP WAS NEVER EVEN MENTIONED IN THE LEGISLATION, EXCEPT THAT WE'RE THINKING THAT, OKAY, IF WE'RE FOLLOWING THE SPIRIT AND THE LETTER OF THE LEGISLATION, THEN CONDITIONAL LICENSES FOR CULTIVATION AND PROCESSING SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE AVAILABLE NOT JUST TO SMALL FARMERS BUT TO DISTRESSED FARMERS, SMALL FARMERS WHO HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN UNDERREPRESENTED IN FARM OWNERSHIP.

NICE WAY OF SAYING BIPOC, OR FARMERS OF COLOR.

INSTEAD WHAT WE HAVE IS A POPULATION OF MOSTLY WHITE HIP FARMERS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, BENEFITTING FROM THE MORE LUCRATIVE ASPECT OF THE BUSINESS.

AND I SAY THIS IS PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE IN THIS GROUP OF FAMILY FARMERS, YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE, YOU KNOW, A ROCKEFELLER, SOME OTHER FOLK WHO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, NO WAY IN THE WORLD COULD BE CONSIDERED TO BE A DISTRESSED FARMER.

SO THE FACT THAT THE STATE HAS NOT MADE THE INCUBATION MONEY AVAILABLE FOR TRAINING, CAPACITY BUILDING, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE FOR THE SOCIAL EQUITY POPULATION REGARDLESS OF WHAT APPLICATION THEY ARE APPLYING FOR, I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT SOME OF THESE LEGACY OPERATORS KNOW HOW TO GROW.

>> TO A DEGREE, THE NYPD HAS SAID THAT THEY'RE NOT PROPERLY STAFFED TO AT LEAST MANAGE THE CROWDS THAT SOME OF THESE DISPENSARIES ARE SHOWING, AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THERE IS A POTENTIAL CRACKDOWN OF SMALLER ONES.

>> YEAH.

>> RIGHT.

SO, THE NYPD INITIALLY WHEN ALL THIS WAS ROLLING OUT WERE TOLD HANDS OFF BY MAYOR ADAMS, THAT NOTHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

NOW THAT THE LICENSE SHOPS ARE OPENING UP, AT LEAST CRACKDOWN, AND IT'S COMING AND IT'S GOING TO BE BAD FOR THEM.

THERE WAS A CITY COUNCIL MEETING, I THINK IT WAS LAST WEEK, WHERE THEY TALKED -- EXCUSE ME.

THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND NYPD TALK AT THEM RAMPING UP TO TWO TO THREE TIMES THEIR CURRENT LEVELS OF ENFORCEMENT.

THEY ESTIMATED THERE WERE 1,200 UNLICENSED SHOPS IN NEW YORK CITY.

I'VE HEARD THAT NUMBER COULD BE AS HIGH AS 2,400.

AND YEAH, THEY DON'T HAVE -- BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO -- EVEN IF THEY TRIPLED THEIR STAFF, IT'S LIKE PLAYING A GAME OF WHACK A MOLE.

IT TAKES FOREVER TO SHUT ONE OF THESE PLACES DOWN.

IT COULD TAKE A YEAR OR LONGER TO GET IT TO CLOSE DOWN.

THEY COULD SEIZE THE PRODUCTS BUT THE STORE COULD OPEN THE NEXT DAY WITH MORE PRODUCT.

SO, THE THING THAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED FROM A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ADVOCATES IN THE LEGAL TAX SPHERES, WHEREVER, IS THIS PATHWAY, THIS TRANSITIONAL PATHWAY TO GOING LEGAL FOR SOME OF THESE PLACES.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE FOLKS DON'T -- THEY MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS.

THEY JUST SEE THEIR NEIGHBORS TWO DOORS DOWN ARE SELLING, SO THEY SAY, WHY WOULD I MISS OUT ON THAT OPPORTUNITY?

SO THEY'RE GOING ABOUT IT THE WRONG WAY, BUT THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF EDUCATION FOR THEM TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GO ABOUT IT THE RIGHT WAY.

UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS HUGE PUSHBACK FROM DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, INCLUDING THE YEMENI COMMUNITY IN NEW YORK CITY, WHICH OWNS, WHAT, 70% OF THE BODEGAS IN THE CITY.

THEY ARE BEING TARGETED.

A MEETING A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, FROM WHAT I'M TOLD IT GOT REALLY NASTY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE REALLY NASTY TO THEM.

THESE WITH FOCUS, THEY HAVE BEEN IN NEW YORK CITY SINCE THE 1950s AND ARE TRANSITIONING INTO THIS MARKETPLACE, BUT A LOT OF THEM DON'T KNOW THE LAWS.

THEY DON'T KNOW THE LAW OF THIS PARTICULAR INDUSTRY.

UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY MESSY, ESPECIALLY IN NEW YORK CITY FOR THE NEXT YEAR OR SO UNTIL SOMEONE FIGURES OUT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS.

IF YOU'RE TALK ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE AND NOT INCARCERATING PEOPLE, BUT THEN YOU RAMP UP ENFORCEMENT AND YOU SEE $1 MILLION OF PRODUCTS, MAYBE YOU'RE NOT ARRESTING THEM AND THROWING THEM IN JAIL, BUT YOU CAN BE DESTROYING LIVES, DESTROYING FAMILIES.

IT'S LIKE SIX IN ONE HAND, HALF A DOZEN IN THE OTHER, AND UNTIL IT GETS FIGURED OUT, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY MESSY.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,