>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TOP METROFOCUS.

LIKE SO MANY OF YOU AT HOME WE, TOO, WERE WATCHING CLOSELY AS YESTERDAY'S EXTRAORDINARY EVENTS UNFOLDED ON CAPITOL HILL.

TONIGHT WE WANT TO TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT TRANSPIRED, THE STORMING OF THE CAPITOL BY PRO TRUMP EXTREMISTS, TO CONGRESS RECONVENING AND CERTIFYING JOE BIDEN AS THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

JOINING US NOW FOR SOME PERSPECTIVE AND A LOOK AT WHAT'S NEXT FOR OUR COUNTRY, A PULITZER PRIZE WINNING COLUMNIST AND "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND AN ATTORNEY AND FORMER TRUMP ADVISER WHO WAS THE FIRST FULL-TIME HIRE FOR THE PRESIDENT'S 2016 CAMPAIGN.

GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> HEY, THANK YOU.

>> SAM, LET ME START WITH YOU.

IN MY WHOLE LIFE I'VE NEVER SEEN A POLITICAL MOMENT LIKE YESTERDAY.

I'VE SEEN A LOT.

I CERTAINLY NEVER THOUGHT AID SAID -- I'D SEE AMERICANS STORMING CONGRESS AS MEMBERS TRY TO FULFILL THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY.

AFTER A FIERY SPEECH BY THE PRESIDENT WHO MANY CLAIM STOKED UP THAT ANGER.

I WONDER IF YOU COULD TELL US, BIG QUESTION, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF YESTERDAY'S EVENTS TO OUR HISTORY?

>> INTERESTING.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DONALD TRUMP GOING DOWN THE ESCALATOR ON JANUARY -- JUNE 16th, 2015, AND YOU THINK ABOUT AN HISTORIC WIN THAT HE HAD, AND HOW THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM WITHIN HIS PRESIDENCY, FRANKLY WITHIN HIS LIFE OF LEFT TO HIS OWN DEVICES THIS IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN.

WHAT YOU SAW YESTERDAY WAS THE CULMINATION OF FOUR MONTHS OF DONALD TRUMP WANTING ONLY TO LISTEN TO ENABLERS SUCH AS RUDY GUILIANI, SIDNEY POWELL, PETER NAVARRO TO MISHANDLE LEGITIMATE ELECTION, IN MY VIEW, ELECTION BALLOT CONCERNS IN PARTICULAR STATES.

NOT OVERALL BUT IN PARTICULAR STATES.

AND YOU SAW SOMEONE THAT WAS REALLY WILLING AT THE END OF THE DAY DO WHATEVER HE COULD DO TO NOT HAVE TO LEAVE THE OFFICE AND BEING, QUOTE-UNQUOTE, LOSER.

IT IT WAS VILE.

IT WAS DISGUSTING.

IT WAS SOMETHING WHERE EVEN THE VICE PRESIDENT I'M TOLD WAS TAKING ABUSE FROM DONALD TRUMP BEFORE HE LEFT TO GO TO CONGRESS TO ASSUME HIS CONSTITUTIONAL DUTIES.

>> THE PRESIDENT INSULTED HIM PUBLICLY.

>> AND IT WAS SOMETHING WHERE I WOULD TELL YOU THAT HAD THE PRESIDENT DONE ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES RELEASING THE MESSAGE HE RELEASED AROUND 3:30 A.M., HAD HE CONTINUED THAT BEHAVIOR AND REALLY FOMENTING WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY AND FOMENTING MORE SUBVERSION OF THE PROCESS HE WOULD HAVE BEEN KICKED OUT OF OFFICE AND REMOVED.

AND THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN EITHER THROUGH THE 25th AMENDMENT OR YOU WOULD HAVE HAD PROBABLY AROUND 30 REPUBLICAN SENATORS VOTING TO INDICT HIM FOR ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT.

>> MAYBE WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT IN A SECOND BUT WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF YESTERDAY'S EVENTS TO OUR HISTORY?

>> TO ME IT IS THE NATURAL CONCLUSION OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS.

RIGHT?

IT IS NO THE THAT DONALD TRUMP POST ELECTION HAS TURNED INTO A CRAZY MAN.

IT'S THAT WE HAVE SEEN THE DEVOLUTION OF THIS CHARACTER IN PUBLIC LIFE FOR 30 YEARS AND POLITICAL LIFE FOR FIVE YEARS AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ARE LIKE THAT, WHEN YOU ONLY HAVE ENABLERS AROUND YOU, WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE, LIES -- YOU FEED PEOPLE LIES THAT PLAY TO THEIR MOST BASE INSTINCTS AND YOU HINT VERY, VERY BROADLY IT'S OKAY IF YOU GO OUT AND DO VIOLENT, EVIL, ANTI-DEMOCRATIC UNAMERICAN STUFF AND YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THIS IS WHAT YOU GET.

UTTERLY PREDICTABLE.

TOTALLY DEPRESSING.

DANGEROUS TO OUR FUTURE.

SOMETHING WE'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH IN SOME PRETTY SERIOUS WAYS I THINK.

>> TO BE CLEAR, HE DID LITERALLY SAY ALL THOSE THINGS.

THERE WERE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THERE YESTERDAY.

PERHAPS A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE AND WHAT, MAYBE A THOUSAND PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE TAKING OF THE CONGRESS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE FAIR ABOUT THAT.

>> YES.

THAT'S RIGHT.

BUT HOLD ON A SECOND.

IN THAT CROWD, HOWEVER LARGE IT WAS, YOU KNOW THERE ARE THOSE ZEALOTS WHO WITH A SLIGHT LITTLE PUSH CAN BE SENT IN TO DO SOME CRAZY STUFF.

THAT IS PART OF THE TRUMP BASE.

>> LOOK, LET ME JUST ADD, HE WOULD HOLD NO RESPONSIBILITY HAD HE NOT SAID IN HIS SPEECH, LET'S WALK OVER TO CONGRESS.

I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT QUOTE.

BUT HE ESSENTIALLY GAVE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE THE IDEA THAT HE WAS GOING TO MARCH OVER WITH THEM AND THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE SOME KIND OF REVOLUTION.

THAT'S WHERE THIS BECAME HIS RESPONSIBILITY.

HIS RESPONSIBILITY OF NOT CONTROLLING IT.

FURTHERMORE FROM MY UNDERSTANDING FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO WERE ALMOST OUTSIDE THE OVAL OFFICE, HE DIDN'T WANT TO CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.

HE HAD TO BE OVERRIDDEN.

ESSENTIALLY MIKE PENCE ACTED AS PRESIDENT YESTERDAY.

I DON'T BELIEVE HE WOULD HAVE HAD THE NATIONAL GUARD CALLED HAD MIKE PENCE NOT COORDINATED THAT WITH NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER O'BRIEN.

AND WHAT IT SHOWED WAS THIS IS HIM, THIS IS DONALD TRUMP LEFT AT HIS OWN DEVICES.

HE IS A REMARKABLE MAN WITH REMARKABLE ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

HE'S HAD SOME DURING HIS PRESIDENCY ON FOREIGN POLICY, LEGISLATIVELY, BUT THIS IS THE CONUNDRUM.

THIS IS HIM.

THAT, YOU KNOW, HE CAN ALSO RESORT TO BEING THE KIND OF PERSONNEL IS DESCRIBES HIM AS.

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

CONSERVATIVE POLICY ANALYST AND NEW YORK POST COLUMNIST BOB McMANUS WROTE THIS MORNING THAT IF YOU DIDN'T CONDEMN THE LOOTING AND BURNING AND DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED HERE IN NEW YORK CITY AND IN CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY BACK IN THE SUMMER, THEN YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE MUCH STANDING FOR CONDEMNING WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY BECAUSE, QUOTE, THUGGERY BRINGS MORE THUGGERY AND STREET FIGHTING BEGETS STORM TROOPERS.

DOES HE HAVE A POINT?

>> I LOVE BOB McMANUS AND, THANKFULLY, THE EQUATION THAT HE LAYS OUT WE DON'T HAVE TO WRESTLE WITH BECAUSE THOSE THINGS WILL WIDELY AND SERIOUSLY -- IT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE THAT DEMOCRATIC POLITICIANS FAILED TO DENOUNCE RIOTING IN THE STREETS.

ANYONE WITHIN A MILE OF MAIN STREAM POLITICS IN AMERICA WAS VERY CLEAR WITH THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS ENDING VIOLENTLY WHEN PEOPLE WERE BURNING DOWN POLICE STATIONS OUT IN THE MIDWEST.

LISTEN, IT IS WRONG EITHER WAY.

BUT THANKFULLY, IT WAS DENOUNCED BOTH TIMES.

>> THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION I DON'T REMEMBER IT BEING MENTIONED.

THE LOOTING THAT WAS GOING ON IN THE STREETS.

AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT SOME PEOPLE SAY AND I THINK THEY'RE ACCURATE.

>> WELL, LISTEN.

THE LINES ARE VERY CLEAR.

RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE DO NOT SUPPORT GOING OUT AND BUSTING INTO PUBLIC BUILDINGS OR BURNING DOWN THE STORES.

I MEAN, THAT'S HORRIBLE BEHAVIOR.

NO MATTER WHO DOES IT.

THERE SHOULD BE NO EQUIVOCATION.

BUT LET'S NOT USE THAT EVEN IF WE THINK OUR OPPONENTS WERE TOO SLOW WITH THEIR VERSION OF IT.

LET'S NOT USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE TO BE WIMPY NOW.

>> I THINK JOE BIDEN AFTER FOLLOWING HIM TWO WEEKS I BELIEVE LAST SUMMER, I DON'T BELIEVE HE WANTED TO, HE WAS FORCED TO CONDEMN IT.

HE WANTED TO USE THE BLACK LIVES MATTER NATIONAL PROTEST FOR HIS WAY TO THE PRESIDENCY.

THAT'S FINE.

THAT'S POLITICS.

I ALSO RECALL THAT KAMALA HARRIS, HER CAMPAIGN, AND EVEN TWEETED ABOUT HOW TO BAIL OUT PEOPLE THAT ARE ARRESTED FROM THOSE PROTESTS.

BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE IS THE FOLLOWING.

THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE I HOLD PERSONALLY IN THE REPUBLICANS.

THAT IS FOR THEM NOT FOR US.

THAT'S FOR THEM NOT FOR US.

AND DONALD TRUMP, LET ME GET BACK TO THIS, DONALD TRUMP COULD HAVE HANDLED THESE PROBLEMS IN PENNSYLVANIA PARTICULARLY WITH WHAT I BELIEVE WAS UN-CONSTITUTIONAL IN WISCONSIN WITH WHAT I BELIEVE WAS UN-CONSTITUTIONAL AND I DON'T WANT TO BORE THE AUDIENCE GOING INTO THE SPECIFICS, IN NEVADA AS WELL.

AND NOTICE I DON'T SAY GEORGIA RIGHT NOW.

AND I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT MICHIGAN.

I'VE STUDIED THESE.

I KNOW THESE.

I HAVE COLLEAGUES THAT WORK ON THESE, IN THESE STATES.

HE HANDLED THIS TERRIBLY.

AND THE ONLY WAY THIS IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED I THINK IS IN THE GUBERNATORIAL RACES IN 2022.

IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.

ONCE AGAIN IT GOES BACK TO THE FACT DONALD TRUMP HAD TO MAKE THIS ABOUT HIMSELF AND HIM HAVING TO STAY ANOTHER FOUR YEARS IN THE OVAL OFFICE, WHICH BY THE WAY, HAD HE HANDLED THIS ENTIRE THING DIFFERENTLY FROM THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION HE VERY LIKELY COULD HAVE BEEN BACK IN THE OVAL OFFICE FOUR YEARS LATER.

SO, YES.

I DO UNDERSTAND AND I DO -- I DO THINK THERE IS SOME HYPOCRISY ON THE OTHER SIDE AS ALWAYS BUT I THINK IT IS STILL UNEXCUSABLE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO ACT LIKE THAT.

HE'S BEEN WARNED.

HE'S BEEN ASKED.

HE'S BEEN BEGGED.

PEOPLE AROUND HIM HAVE SAID GET RID OF RUDY GUILIANI.

INSTEAD HE IS ABOUT TO PROBABLY PARDON RUDY GUILIANI.

>> SO LISTEN, SAM.

YOU TOUCHED ON THIS.

HE'S BEEN ACTING -- SURROUNDED BY -- RECENTLY, IT BRINGS OUT THE WORST IN HIM AND EVEN KIND OF ECHOED WHAT WE'VE READ IN THE PAPER THAT SOME OF HIS CABINET MEMBERS WERE THINKING ABOUT INVOKING THE 25th AMENDMENT WHICH WOULD PUT HIM OUT OF OFFICE BECAUSE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO FULFILL HIS DUTIES BECAUSE OF INCOMPETENCE.

OR ANOTHER IMPEACHMENT IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.

>> RIGHT.

>> WHAT IS HIS LONG TERM LEGACY GOING TO BE AFTER YESTERDAY?

>> IT'S GOING TO -- WELL, I WOULD SAY IN THE NICEST -- THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IN THE MOST POSITIVE LIGHT IT IS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO REMARKABLY MADE A MAJOR DECISION TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT, REMARKABLY LED A MOVEMENT FOR PEOPLE THAT DID FEEL AND HAD RIGHTFULLY SO FELT THEY HAD BEEN IGNORED DURING THE LAST TWO ADMINISTRATIONS OF GEORGE W. BUSH AND BARACK OBAMA AND THEN SOMEBODY WHO LIKE MANY OTHER PRESIDENTS BEFORE HIM WAS NOT A PERFECT MAN.

ONLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE ESPECIALLY THE WAY DONALD TRUMP LIKES TO BE IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA YOU GOT TO SEE THE WORST PARTS OF HIM UNLIKE OTHER PRESIDENTS.

>> ELLIS, HIS LONG TERM LEGACY?

>> WELL, A MAN OF SOME GIFTS.

A MAN WHO CAN STAND IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE AND CAPTURE PEOPLE.

A MAN WHO KNOWS HOW TO GATHER ATTENTION, SOMEONE WHO CREATED GREAT LOYALTY AMONG NOT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BUT A FERVENT 30, 35, SOME DAYS EVEN 40% WHICH IS A HUGE ACHIEVEMENT.

BUT SOMEONE WHOSE PERSONAL DEMONS MADE HIM A HORRIBLE FORCE FOR OUR COUNTRY.

SOMEONE WHO UNDERMINED DEMOCRACY, DIVIDED THE COUNTRY, PLAYED TO PEOPLE'S VERY WORST INSTINCTS, AND LEFT A HUGE, HUGE MESS BEHIND.

ABOUT THE BEST SUMMARY I CAN GIVE YOU.

>> WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

EVEN BEFORE YESTERDAY IT WAS CLEAR THAT THERE WAS A BIG SPLIT BETWEEN THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU COULD CALL THE POPULOUS AND ESTABLISHMENT WINGS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I THINK YESTERDAY AND WHAT TRANSPIRED WITHIN THE CHAMBERS AND THE DEBATE FRACTURED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY EVEN MORE.

WHAT IS THE SHORT TERM FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT IS TO SAY IN THE 2022 MIDTERMS AND THE LONG TERM?

>> THAT DIVISION CAN'T BE STITCHED BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

I THINK IT IS TOO PROFOUND.

THE RESENTMENTS ARE TOO INTENSE ON BOTH SIDES.

IF THERE IS NO WAY TO COME UP WITH A COALITION THAT INCLUDES LARRY HOGAN AND DONALD TRUMP.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN GET THAT.

I DO THINK SOMETHING WILL COME OUT OF THESE ASHES BUT IT WILL BE A LONG TIME COMING.

THERE IS AN EMBITTERED CORE THAT CAN'T BE EASILY PLAY CATED.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN STUFF AND NEED A HOME, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT IS WHAT REPUBLICANS USED TO BE FOR.

AS LONG AS THIS RIGHT VERSION OF POPULISM HAS SUCH A GRIP I THINK IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE REPUBLICANS FROM MERELY A POLITICAL POINT OF VIEW ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE IN A BETTER PLACE THAN HAD THEY STILL CONTROLLED THE SENATE.

NOW THEY ARE THE MINORITY PARTY.

AS THE DEMOCRATS LEARNED IN 2017 IT IS ALWAYS MUCH EASIER TO BE THE MINORITY THAN THE MAJORITY.

MUCH EASIER TO SAY WHAT YOU WOULD DO THAN TO ACTUALLY GOVERN.

SO I DO THINK THAT THEY HAVE A STRONG CHANCE TO RETAKE THE HOUSE IN 2022.

IS DONALD TRUMP GOING TO BE A FOUR LETTER WORD WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN ELECTORATE?

NO.

IS DONALD TRUMP -- ARE HIS POLICIES GOING TO BE COMPLETELY ABANDONED?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

SO WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO FIND IS SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO STRADDLE BOTH CAMPS IN 2024.

AND I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS NOW FROM WHAT I HEAR FROM MY FRIENDS, REPORTERS AT BREITBART, ACTIVISTS, PEOPLE THAT SUPPORTED TRUMP FOR 2015, WHAT I HEAR AND THIS IS ANECDOTAL BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THEY'RE A LITTLE MORE PRAGMATIC WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT 2024.

I STILL THINK THE LIKELY NOMINEES FOR 2024 ARE EITHER GOING TO BE RON DeSANTIS IF HE IS RE-ELECTED.

I DON'T THINK MIKE PENCE CAN RUN ANYMORE BECAUSE TRUMP WOULD PROBABLY TRY TO STOP HIM.

TED CRUZ OR NIKKI HALEY, SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS NOT DEAD.

LET'S ALSO REMEMBER DONALD TRUMP DID WIN FLORIDA.

HE DID WIN OHIO.

HE DID WIN IOWA.

HE STILL GOT 230 ELECTORAL VOTES, MORE THAN JOHN McCAIN AND MITT ROMNEY GOT.

SO ONCE AGAIN, HIS PERSONAL DEMONS ARE WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THE LAST SIX WEEKS OR TWO MONTHS.

WE ALSO SAW THE BEST OF HIM POLITICALLY THE LAST TWO WEEKS OF THE CAMPAIGN.

>> SO WHAT CAN POLITICAL LEADERS DO TO MAKE SURE THINGS DON'T DEGENERATE ANY FURTHER?

PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN HAS BEEN CERTIFIED.

HE WILL BE PRESIDENT AFTER JANUARY 20th.

WHAT CAN HE -- WHAT CAN THE REPUBLICANS DO?

40% OF PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THE ELECTION WAS ILLEGITIMATE.

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO WIN THE LEGITIMACY OF THIS ELECTION AND THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE?

>> THE SAME 40% WHO STILL BELIEVE BARACK OBAMA WAS BORN IN KENYA RIGHT?

GO FIGURE.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO PERSUADE THAT CROWD.

I THINK BIDEN'S TONE HAS BEEN DEAD ON.

HE HAS BEEN VERY GOOD.

HE'S TRIED TO NOT ENGAGE ANY MORE THAN HE NEEDS TO AND HAS SAID VERY CLEAR MESSAGES OF CALM AND RESPONSIBILITY AND UNITY.

AND I THINK THAT'S ABOUT ALL HE CAN DO.

TO ME THE REAL FOCUS IS ON OTHER REPUBLICANS, RIGHT, WHO I THINK BEAR A HUGE PERCENTAGE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY.

THIS WAS NOT A ONE MAN SHOW.

HE HAD A GREEN LIGHT FROM REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS, THE MOST IN THE SENATE, AND MANY, MANY REPUBLICAN ELECTED OFFICIALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THEY REALLY NEED TO FIGURE OUT ARE YOU WITH THIS GUY OR AGAINST THIS GUY?

AND I THINK UNTIL WE GET AN ANSWER TO THAT IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO MOVE FORWARD.

BIDEN HAS ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

THAT WILL AT LEAST ALLOW HIM TO BEGIN PURSUING AN AGENDA.

IT'S GOING TO BE TIGHT.

HE IS NOT GOING TO GET HUGE SUCCESSES.

TONALLY I THINK HE HAS IT BUT I'M WATCHING THOSE OTHER REPUBLICANS.

>> SAM, SENATOR MITT ROMNEY SAID YESTERDAY THAT HIS COLLEAGUES HAD TO BE MORE PROACTIVE.

THEY HAD TO GO OUT AND TELL THEIR CONSTITUENTS THAT BIDEN HAD REALLY WON THE ELECTION.

AND THAT TRUMP HAD REALLY LOST IT.

THAT IT WAS INCUMBENT ON THEM IN ORDER TO MOVE AHEAD.

DO YOU THINK THAT HE HAD A POINT?

>> NO.

LOOK, I THINK IF YOU'RE FROM TEXAS, YOU'RE FROM OHIO, YOU'RE FROM FLORIDA YOU HAVE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY THERE WAS SUCH AN UPTICK IN VOTER PARTICIPATION WITH THESE MAIL-IN BALLOTS IN PHILADELPHIA, MILWAUKEE, DETROIT.

YOU HAVE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY YOU CAN GO TO SLEEP AND THEN SUDDENLY BOOM A HUNDRED THOUSAND TOTALLY IN MICHIGAN JUST GO TO JOE BIDEN.

THEY COULDN'T EVEN GIVE ONE TO DONALD TRUMP.

THOSE ARE LEGITIMATE.

OKAY?

I THINK IF YOU REPRESENT THOSE STATES AS TED CRUZ DOES, JAMES LANGFORD, AS DOES HAWLEY, YOU HAVE A RIGHT ON BEHALF OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS TO STUDY THESE ISSUES BECAUSE IT WASN'T TAKEN IN THE COURTS.

JOHN ROBERTS ON A 4-4 DID NOT TAKE THE PENNSYLVANIA ELECTION BEFORE AMY CONEY BARRET WAS ON THE SUPREME COURT.

THAT WOULD HAVE SOLVED A LOT OF THESE ISSUES.

I THINK IT IS VERY EASY FOR MITT ROMNEY.

HE HAS PERSONAL GRIEVANCES AND HE IS JEALOUS OF THE PRESIDENT.

BACK TO ONE OTHER THING LET'S ALSO REMEMBER AND I WAS THERE ONE OF THE REASONS DONALD TRUMP WAS ELECTED WAS A LOT OF THE POLICIES AT THE END, THE LAST EIGHT YEARS OF BARACK OBAMA AND JOE BIDEN WERE NOT POPULAR.

JOE BIDEN DOES NOT HAVE DONALD TRUMP ANYMORE.

JOE BIDEN HAS TO BE THE PRESIDENT AND HAVE THE BULLY PULPIT.

LET'S SEE HOW WELL HE DOES.

I SUSPECT HE WON'T BE A VERY POPULAR PRESIDENT BY NEXT JUNE WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP, WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP AROUND.

BUT LET'S SEE.

I COULD BE WRONG.

WE'LL FIND OUT.

HE WAS ABLE TO RUN THANKS TO DONALD TRUMP WHO WANTED THIS NO MATTER WHAT.

YOU COULDN'T TELL HIM EITHER WAY TO HIDE.

HE WAS ABLE TO RUN AND MAKE IT A COMPLETE REFERENDUM ON DONALD TRUMP.

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HE TAKES HIS POLICIES, POLICIES OF KAMALA HARRIS VOTED THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR BY "NEWSWEEK," LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THESE POLICIES ARE PUT IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND PASSED.

I LIKE REPUBLICAN CHANCES THEN.

WE'LL FIND OUT.

>> SAM, I WISH YOU WOULDN'T KEEP BEATING THE ELECTION DRUM.

SERIOUSLY.

THAT IS NOT A GOOD PLAY.

IT IS TIME TO GET PAST IT.

LET'S TRY TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER AND NOT USE THESE UGLY LABELS.

NOW IS THE TIME WE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO FIND SOME THINGS AS AMERICANS WE CAN AGREE ON.

WE NEED TO SOLVE OUR IMMIGRATION PROBLEM.

WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE BETTER HEALTH CARE.

I CAN GIVE YOU A LIST OF ABOUT EIGHT THINGS.

GET THE INFRASTRUCTURE FINALLY DONE WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT ALL THESE YEARS.

NOW IS THE TIME TO DO THAT.

LET'S GET BEYOND THAT DIVISIVE TALK.

>> THAT IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE.

>> IT IS.

>> BUT THE ISSUE OF ELECTION LEGITIMACY IS STILL A QUESTION THAT LINGERS ON REAL PEOPLE'S MINDS.

I THINK IGNORING IT MAY BE -- CAN YOU HAVE A UNITED COUNTRY WHEN 40% OF THE PEOPLE BELIEVE YOU WERE ELECTED ILLEGITIMATELY?

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER.

I COME FROM CUBA.

AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

BUT IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED, THEN THEY WON'T FOLLOW THE RULES.

IF THEY DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY HARD TO GET BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

SO DON'T YOU HAVE TO?

I MEAN, ISN'T IT TO BIDEN'S ADVANTAGE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NONSENSE IS EXPOSED AS NONSENSE?

>> YES.

BUT I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S WITHIN HIS REACH.

WHAT HAS CAUSED THIS IS A GROUP OF REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS LYING TO PEOPLE ABOUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND ELECTION THAT WAS COMPLETELY STOLEN AND VOTES SHOWING UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

WHEN YOU AND I HAVE TIME I'LL GO THROUGH EACH OF THOSE THINGS WITH YOU BECAUSE THERE REALLY IS, THIS IS REALLY A PRETTY GOOD ELECTION.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN CONVINCE ALL THOSE PEOPLE BUT IN THE END YOU GOT TO MOVE FORWARD AND SAY WHAT CAN WE AGREE ON AS A PEOPLE AND GET DONE HERE AND SOME OF THIS STUFF IS REALLY MORE IMPORTANT THAN THOSE BITTER GRIEVANCES.

>> WELL, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THOSE ISSUES NEED TO BE SOLVED IN THE COURTS.

THEY REALLY NEED TO BE SOLVED -- >> 60 COURTS, 60 COURTS, SAM.

HOW MANY DO YOU WANT?

>> PERHAPS EVEN IN THE SUPREME COURT.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATIVE.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A COMMISSION, BLUE RIBBON TYPE COMMISSION TO LOOK AT ANYTHING.

ON THE LEGISLATIVE FRONT LET'S SEE WHAT JOE BIDEN PROPOSES.

I THINK INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD BE GREAT.

PARTLY DONALD TRUMP COULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE OF HIS OWN PARTY.

ONE OF THE FAILINGS OF DONALD TRUMP WAS HE GAVE TOO MUCH TO McCONNELL AND TOOK TOO MUCH AND NEVER SEEMED TO GET ANYTHING HIMSELF.

YOU KNOW, YES.

HE DID THEORETICALLY HAVE THE SENATE BUT I DON'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE THE SENATE WHEN YOU HAVE A JOHN McCAIN THERE WHO JUST WANTS TO PUT A THUMB DOWN.

YOU KNOW, AND WHAT WE LEARNED WAS WE WERE NOT READY TO GOVERN OURSELVES.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE OF WHEN WE TRY TO DO THINGS AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER SIDE.

AND FOR BETTER OR WORSE.

AND THE PART OF THE FAILING IS THAT WE AS REPUBLICANS ARE NOT CAREER PEOPLE IN THE GOVERNMENT.

I THINK WE'VE LEARNED THAT.

BUT WE NEED PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD, IN THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION, WE CERTAINLY NEED PEOPLE WITH MORE EXPERIENCE.

AND EXPERIENCE IS NOT A FOUR LETTER WORD EITHER ANYMORE.

>> WE GOT LESS THAN FOUR MINUTES LEFT.

THE SENATORIAL RUN-OFF IN GEORGIA, THE DEMOCRATS SWEPT.

NOW THEY HAVE CONTROL OF THE SENATE OR THEY WILL HAVE CONTROL OF THE SENATE.

WHEN ASKED ABOUT WHAT HIS PLANS WERE SENATOR SCHUMER SAID, QUOTE, BUCKLE UP.

WHICH MEANT HE IS GOING TO TRY TO FOLLOW WHAT HE PROMISED WHICH IS CHANGE AMERICA.

AT LEAST ONE COMMENTATOR SAID THAT AFTER YESTERDAY PERHAPS SENATOR SCHUMER MIGHT WANT TO MODIFY OR RECALCULATE SOME OF THE MORE RADICAL PROPOSALS FOR THE SAKE OF THE MILLIONS THAT ARE GOING TO OPPOSE IT IN ORDER TO BRING THE POLITICAL TEMPERATURE DOWN.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IS THAT LIKELY TO HAPPEN?

OR WOULD THAT BE A GOOD THING?

>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE WHAT RADICAL PROPOSALS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

MOST OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK ARE AT THE TOP OF THE AGENDA POLL PRETTY WELL LIKE GETTING MORE PEOPLE HEALTH CARE AND PROVIDING SOME KIND OF MINIMUM WAGE PEOPLE COULD LIVE ON.

BUT LET'S BE REALISTIC.

50/50 SENATE IS VERY TIGHT.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PASS MAJOR LEGISLATION WHERE YOU REALLY NEED 60 VOTES.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW CHARMING JOE BIDEN CAN REALLY BE IN THE END.

IT DOES PROVIDE A LOT OF THINGS T. IT ALLOWS THEM TO CONTROL THE SCHEDULE AND MAKE JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS AND GIVES JOE BIDEN THE CABINET HE WANTS AND GIVES THE NEW ADMINISTRATION A CHANCE TO HAVE AN AGENDA TO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING, TO SAY, HEY.

THIS IS WHAT WE STAND FOR.

LET'S TAKE A VOTE ON IT.

I THINK THAT'S BIG.

THAT'S REALLY BIG.

THANK YOU, GEORGIA.

>> SAM, DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT MANY REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING THAT NOW WE MIGHT SEE THE END OF FILIBUSTER, WE MAY SEE TWO NEW STATES, PUERTO RICO AND D.C. WITH FOUR DEMOCRATIC SENATORS IN PERPETUITY AND A PACKED COURT?

>> I THINK YOU COULD HAVE HAD THE REPUBLICANS IN NORTH CAROLINA AND IOWA, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO THAT WITH ONLY 50 AND KAMALA HARRIS.

JOE MANCHIN FOR INSTANCE I CANNOT SEE VOTING FOR A LOT OF THAT EVEN IF HE'S NOT UP FOR RE-ELECTION UNTIL 2024.

I WOULD ALSO NOTE THAT IN 2022 THE DEMOCRATS ARE PLAYING MORE DEFENSE THAN OFFENSE IN THE SENATE, IN THE SENATE RACES AGAIN.

WE'LL SEE.

THESE THINGS ALWAYS HAPPEN.

JOE BIDEN WILL GET THE SAME WAY BARACK OBAMA DID WITH HEALTH CARE, HIS FIRST DOMESTIC LEGISLATIVE PRIORITY WILL BE PASSED.

WHATEVER THAT IS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE AND I WANT TO GET THREE SECONDS FROM EACH OF YOU ON THIS.

WHAT IS THE ONE LESSON THAT PATRIOTIC AMERICANS OF ALL POLITICAL PERSUASIONS SHOULD TAKE FROM YESTERDAY'S EVENTS?

>> LISTEN.

HOW ABOUT THAT?

WHY DON'T WE SPEND A LITTLE TIME LISTENING TO PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE?

YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE STRONG PASSIONS.

WE'RE ALL PRETTY SURE WE'RE RIGHT.

BUT IT IS A REALLY BIG, DIVERSE COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THOSE PEOPLE BANGING IN THE WINDOWS IN THE CAPITOL.

I DIDN'T WANT TO LISTEN TO THEM.

I STILL DON'T WANT TO.

BUT SOMEWHERE BENEATH ALL THE CRAZINESS IS PROBABLY SOMETHING I NEED TO HEAR.

>> SAM, IN 20 SECONDS?

>> I'M SITTING HERE AS THE FIRST PERSON TO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP TELLING YOU I TOOK SOLACE IN THE FACT THAT JOE BIDEN WAS FORMALLY MADE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE CONSTITUTION DID WORK.

>> GOOD.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO END IT THERE, FELLOWS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> GOOD BEING WITH YOU GUYS.

THANKS.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.