♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

THE WAIT IS OVER, MORE OR LESS, AND WE FINALLY HAVE NEW RESULTS TO TALK ABOUT IN THE RACE FOR THE MAYOR FOR NEW YORK CITY.

NOW, A DAY AFTER BOTCHING ITS INITIAL TEST BALLOTS IN THE ORIGINAL COUNT, NEW YORK CITY BOARD OF ELECTIONS RELEASED A REVISED POLL SHOWING ERIC ADAMS WITH A THIN LEAD OVER CATHERINE GARCIA AND MAYA WILEY.

NOW, ANOTHER 120,000 ABSENTEE BALLOTS STILL NEED TO BE FACTORED IN, AND THAT ISN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN THIS WEEK.

TONIGHT IT REMAINS INCREDIBLY CLOSE AND UP FOR GRABS.

AS FOR THE BELEAGUERED BOARD OF ELECTIONS, ITS APOLOGY TO NEW YORKERS YESTERDAY MIGHT HAVE NOT LANDED AS WELL AS PEOPLE WERE HOPING.

AND THEY ALSO MADE IT A POINT TO STRESS THAT THIS WAS A CASE OF HUMAN ERROR AND NOT THE FAULT OF RANKED CHOICE VOTING AS SOME RANKED CHOICE VOTERS MAY HAVE FELT.

IT'S ALSO BEEN QUITE A WEEK.

WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WITH THIS ELECTION, TONIGHT TO HELP US MAKE SENSE OF WHAT WE AT LEAST KNOW NOW ARE OUR NEW YORK CITY POLITICAL EXPERTS.

WE HAVE J.C. POLONKO, WHO IS A POLITICAL COMMENTATOR HERE AT METROFOCUS AND A FORMER WITH THE CAPITAL F FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE NEW YORK CITY BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

WE'RE ALSO JOINED BY BEN MAX, HOST OF THE MAX POLITICS PODCAST.

GENTLEMEN, WELCOME BACK.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SO HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO, BEN, I WANT TO START WITH YOU AND JUST GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT I GUESS WE CAN CALL FIRST ROUND PART TWO OF THE ELECTION RESULTS.

AND FIRST OF ALL, WAS THERE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE THOUGHT WE KNEW VERSUS WHAT WE AT LEAST NOW CAN SAY THAT WE KNOW, AND DOES IT TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT WHERE THIS ELECTION STANDS?

>> YEAH.

WELL, WE ALL LOST A DAY, BASICALLY.

AND WE WON'T HOLD IT AGAINST THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS TOO MUCH.

BUT MAYBE A LITTLE BIT.

YOU KNOW, AS I WAS SAYING ON LAST NIGHT'S PROGRAM, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A GOOD THING THAT WHEN AN ERROR WAS MADE, IT WAS CAUGHT.

IT WAS ADDRESSED.

IT WAS FIXED, RIGHT?

WE SAW SOME STRESS ON THE SYSTEM AND WE SAW THE SYSTEM AT LEAST FOR NOW SORT OF COME THROUGH ON THE OTHER SIDE.

WE WISH IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

THERE SHOULD BE ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT AT LEAST THEY CORRECTED THE RECORD HERE AND WE HAVE A NEW TALLY.

OF COURSE, THE IRONIC THING IS THE PERCENTAGES HAVEN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH.

BUT LET'S LEAVE THAT ASIDE.

WHAT WE SEE HERE IS AN INCREDIBLY CLOSE RACE IN THE NEXT TO LAST ROUND.

AGAIN, PRELIMINARY, UNOFFICIALLY, NOT INCLUDING 120,000 ABSENTEE VOTES.

SO THIS IS JUST A RUN THROUGH.

IN THE NEXT TO LAST ROUND OF THAT RUN-OFF, WE SEE A 347 VOTE MARGIN WHERE CATHERINE GARCIA COMES OUT AHEAD.

WILEY GETS ELIMINATED.

SHE LOSES BY 14,000, 15,000 VOTES AGAIN.

AGAIN, A VERY SMALL MARGIN THERE.

SO POINT BEING, THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS ARE GOING TO MAKE OR BREAK THIS THING.

WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL BE MAYA WILEY OR CATHERINE GARCIA WHO ENDS UP IN THE FINAL ROUND AGAINST ERIC ADAMS.

>> OF COURSE.

THESE ABSENTEE BALLOTS WE HAVE BEEN WAITED FOR FOR THOSE TO GET COUNTERED AND FACTORED IN, DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHERE THEY MIGHT BE COMING FROM OR PERHAPS WHOSE QUOTE, UNQUOTE BALLOTS THOSE MIGHT BE?

>> WE DO.

AND I KNOW BEN HAS SEEN THE ACTUAL TALLY COMING IN.

FROM WHAT COUNTIES THOSE HAVE BEEN RETURNED FROM.

AND AS WE CONTINUE TO SEE, MANHATTAN CONTINUES TO ALWAYS LEAD IN THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

ABSENTEE BALLOTS NORMALLY TREND THE SAME DAY AS ELECTION DAY VOTING NORMALLY.

BUT THERE IS NOTHING NORMAL ABOUT THIS ELECTION.

WE'RE COMING OUT OF A PANDEMIC.

IT IS THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE DONE RANKED CHOICE VOTING.

A LOT OF THE VOTERS DON'T KNOW THAT IF THEY DON'T SELECT FIVE ON THEIR ACTUAL BALLOT, THEY MAY HAVE AN EXHAUSTIVE BALLOT AND HAVE THEIR BALLOT NOT EVEN COUNT.

SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF THOSE ABSENTEE BALLOTS AT THE END OF THE DAY CAN COUNT TOWARD THE ACTUAL TALLY.

I MENTIONED HERE SEVERAL TIMES THAT IN SAN FRANCISCO, A LARGE CITY, NOT QUITE NEW YORK CITY, AND THEIR BOARD OF ELECTIONS IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO OURS.

THEY ACTUALLY HAD AN EXHAUSTION RATE OF OVER 20%.

THAT MEANS THAT 20% OF THEIR VOTERS WHEN THEY WENT TO VOTE AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN BEN JUST MENTIONED WHEN WE APPROACHED THE LATTER ROUNDS, THEIR VOTES DIDN'T EVEN COUNT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LIST THOSE CANDIDATES THAT WEREN'T ELIMINATED.

SO THIS WILL BE QUITE A SHOCKER WHEN WE SEE THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS AND THEN ELIMINATE FROM THAT BATCH HOW MANY OF THOSE WOULD MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN THIS RACE.

NOW, IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, HAVING BEEN ON SO MANY CAMPAIGNS, WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS THIS MAIL CAMPAIGN IS DECIDING VOTES MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

I GUESS TACTICIANS HAVE GOTTEN INVOLVED TO KNOW WHERE TO GO, WHO HAS THOSE PERMANENT ABSENTEE BALLOTS COMING IN AND MAKING THEIR PITCH.

WHICH CAMPAIGN MADE THE BEST PITCH FOR THOSE ABSENTEE BALLOTS?

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHO IS TRENDING FROM THOSE AREAS.

THE BRONX IS LAST ON THAT LIST.

AND MANHATTAN IS AT THE TOP.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS PANS OUT BETWEEN CATHERINE GARCIA, MAYA WILEY, ERIC ADAMS.

I KNOW MAYA HAD A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN HER CAMPAIGN WHO UNDERSTOOD THE MATH, WHO UNDERSTOOD ABOUT IMPORTANT THIS WAS.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE MORE INTERESTING THAN WE EVER THOUGHT GOING INTO THE LAST WEEKS.

>> OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

BUT EVEN WITH KNOWING THAT, THAT WE STILL, YOU KNOW, WITH THESE ABSENTEE BALLOTS THAT WILL BE COMING IN AND OF COURSE THAT WILL GIVE US A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT THE NEXT ROUNDS WILL BE, DOES THERE NEED TO BE A BETTER JOB, PERHAPS, OF STILL EXPLAINING THIS FOR WHEN WE GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN?

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE PERHAPS WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE FULLY UNDERSTOOD THE NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CHOICES THAT YOU HAD AND TO MAKE SURE THOSE BALLOTS GET COUNTED FOR THE SUBSEQUENT ROUNDS, DOES THERE NEED TO BE A BETTER PR, I GUESS, TO MAKE SURE THAT NEW YORKERS HAVE A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT EXACTLY IT IS THIS RANKED CHOICE SYSTEM EXACTLY IS?

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A REAL CAMPAIGN ABOUT RANKED CHOICE VOTING GETTING ON THE BALLOT AND EXPLAINING THAT TO VOTERS.

I THINK VOTERS THAT DID END UP SHOWING UP, WHICH IS ALWAYS A MINUSCULE NUMBER, THOSE THAT DID SHOW UP WERE SO EXCITED ABOUT REFORM BECAUSE REFORM MEANS GOOD AND CHANGE IS ALWAYS GOOD.

WHEN THEY SAW RANKED CHOICE VOTING, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, MOST NEW YORKERS WHEN YOU EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT HAPPENED AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED, I THINK THEY KNOW THEY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE.

I THINK WE GOT TO GET RID OF THIS FOR SO MANY REASONS.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE NEED TO HAVE A BETTER PUBLIC RELATIONS CAMPAIGN.

VOTER NYC, THEY LAUNCHED A MULTIMILLION EFFORT TO EXPLAIN TO VOTERS, BUT I DIDN'T QUITE SEE ANYTHING ABOUT MAKE SURE YOU VOTE FOR ALL FIVE OR RANK ALL FIVE BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE AN EXHAUSTIVE BALLOT THAT DOESN'T COUNT.

I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THAT.

BEN, MAYBE YOU DID.

>> BEN, DOES THAT RING ANY BELLS?

>> THERE WERE SEVERAL, MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN COORDINATED BETTER.

THAT'S ONE THING I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THROUGHOUT THIS.

THE MAYOR HAS A DEMOCRACY OFFICE THAT WAS DOING ITS OWN ADS.

THEN YOU HAVE THE CITY CAMPAIGN FINANCE BOARD AND NYC VOTES DOING ITS OWN, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS DOING ITS OWN.

IT SHOULD BE COORDINATED SO THEY KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING.

IT IS A WHOLE NONPROFIT WORLD, LOCAL COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS DOING A LOT OF OUTREACH AND EDUCATION, TOO.

I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF EDUCATION, BUT IT COULD BE BETTER COORDINATED.

THE QUESTION ON WHETHER PEOPLE KNEW TO RANK OUT THEIR BALLOTS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A COMPLICATED ONE BECAUSE THAT ONLY REALLY MATTERS IF YOU WIND UP PUTTING ONE OF THE TOP PEOPLE SOMEWHERE ON YOUR BALLOT.

IF YOU RANK SOMEONE WHO GETS ELIMINATED VERY EARLY ON THE RUN OFF, THAT DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAY.

IT IS ABOUT THINKING ABOUT IT STRATEGICALLY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO TRUST THE POLLS, BUT THE POLLS LOOK PRETTY RIGHT IN THIS ELECTION IN TERMS OF WHO THE TOP CANDIDATES WERE AT THE END.

IF YOU TRUST THAT, THEN YOU THINK STRATEGICALLY, OKAY, RANKING MY PREFERENCES TOWARDS THE TOP, BUT THESE COUPLE CANDIDATES ARE LIKELY TO BE THERE AT THE END.

EVEN IF I DON'T PREFER THEM, HERE IS MY CHOICE AND MY VIEW OF THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT IS A THOUGHT PROCESS THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE EDUCATED BETTER ON, A STRATEGIC VOTING PROCESS.

BUT AGAIN ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS HERE IS PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THEY COULD RANK THEIR PREFERENCES AND COME OUT TO VOTE.

WE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM AS J.C. WAS GETTING AT WITH JUST VOTER YOUR HONOR-OUT PERIOD THAN WE DO ISSUES ABOUT RANKING.

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO WATCH IS WHEN WE GET BETTER DATA ON WHICH DEMOGRAPHIC, GEOGRAPHIC GROUPS OF PEOPLE RANKED OUT THEIR BALLOTS MORE THAN OTHERS.

IF ERIC ADAMS' BASE OF VOTERS DIDN'T RANK OUT THEIR BALLOTS, THAT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO BE IN THE FINAL TWO.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF COMPLICATED ISSUES HERE, BUT PLENTY OF ROOM FOR MORE EDUCATION.

TO J.C.'S POINT, I DO THINK, AS I SAID ON LAST NIGHT'S PROGRAM, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN NICE TO HAVE A MAYOR RUN THAT WASN'T A TEST CASE, BUT IT DOES HELP BRING THE ELECTORATE TOWARDS SOMETHING OF A CONSENSUS AROUND A CANDIDATE.

>> I GUESS THIS IS A COMPLICATED OR MAYBE A NONSENSICAL QUESTION FOR THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION SEEING HOW IT IS THE FIRST TIME THAT NEW YORK HAS DONE THIS.

BUT IS THERE ANY KIND OF HISTORICAL PRECEDENT OR RECENT PRECEDENT, I GUESS, FOR A CANDIDATE WHO SEEMED TO BE IN THE SECOND ROUND -- NOT IN THE SECOND ROUND BUT AS A SECOND RUNNER-UP OF THEM COMING THROUGH AND WINNING AN ELECTION OR IS THIS SPECULATION ON THE PART OF THE PRESS TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND KEEP THE STORY GOING?

IS THERE ANY PRECEDENT FOR MAYA WILEY OR CATHERINE GAR SEE TO PULL THIS OUT?

>> I THINK OAKLAND HAD SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY SIMILAR WHEN THEY HAD THEIR RANKED CHOICE VOTING WHERE WE SAW SOME COALESCING ALLIANCES.

I LIKE THESE TERMS.

I'M TAKING A LOT OF HEAT FOR CALLING IT COLLUSION.

MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE PICKED A BETTER WORD FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

BUT I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TWO INDIVIDUALS RUNNING FOR THE SAME OFFICE CAN ACTUALLY SAY VOTE FOR ME OR THE OTHER PERSON.

IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

JUST VOTE FOR ONE OF US.

IT IS NOT REALLY -- IT IS NOT REALLY AN ENDORSEMENT, RIGHT?

AND IT IS NOT REALLY LIKE A MAYORAL CANDIDATE RUNNING WITH A CONTROL CANDIDATE ON A TICKET OR A FUSION TICKET.

IT SEEMS SO ODD TO ME TO SEE IT ACTUALLY PLAY OUT.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES.

THE WOMEN GOT TOGETHER AND SAID, VOTE FOR THE WOMEN TICKET.

LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN, AND IT ACTUALLY WORKED.

MUCH SMALLER CITY, BUT WE ACTUALLY HAVE SEEN IT IN PRACTICE.

>> I THINK THE DATA SHOWS THAT IN RANKED CHOICE ELECTIONS, WHOEVER WINS THE MOST FIRST RANKED VOTES, WHICH WOULD BE ERIC ADAMS IN THIS CASE ALMOST ALWAYS WINDS UP WINNING THE ELECTIONS, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONS.

OAKLAND MAYORAL RACES HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE BIG ONES.

BUT NEW YORK CITY IS DIFFERENT.

EVERY ELECTION IS DIFFERENT.

AND I THINK AS WE GET TO THE ABSENTEES HERE, THERE IS A VERY REAL CHANCE THAT CATHERINE GARCIA COULD WIN THIS ELECTION.

I'D SAY THERE IS LESS OF A CHANCE FOR MAYA WILEY.

SHE COULD LEAPFROG OVER GARCIA, BUT IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT GARCIA'S SECOND CHOICE RANKINGS WOULD HELP WILEY AS MUCH AS WILEY HAS HELPED ADAMS.

BUT FOR ONE OF THOSE TWO TO WIN, THEIR VOTERS WOULD HAVE TO REALLY BOOST THE ONE WHO COMES OUT OF THAT NEXT-TO-LAST ROUND.

AND THE EVIDENCE LOOKS LIKE IF MAYA WILEY IS THE ONE THAT'S ELIMINATED, SHE GIVES A STRONGER BOOST TO GARCIA THAN IF GARCIA GETS ELIMINATED.

CATHERINE GARCIA DID MUCH BETTER IN MANHATTAN THAN EVERYBODY ELSE.

SHE ALSO DID VERY WELL IN PARTS OF BROWNSTONE, BROOKLYN, AREAS THAT HAVE HIGH VOTER TURN-OUT, PERIOD, INCLUDING IN ABSENTEES.

SO SHE HAS A LOT OF OPTIMISM THAT THE ABSENTEES WILL HELP HER.

ERIC ADAMS IS ALSO OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE THEY DID WELL IN SO MANY PLACES AROUND THE CITY THAT THE NUMBERS ARE STILL IN THEIR FAVOR.

CATHERINE GARCIA WOULD REALLY HAVE TO OVERPERFORM IN THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS TO PULL THIS OUT.

THERE IS STILL A CHANCE MAYA WILEY COULD DO IT, BUT THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO IS CATHERINE GARCIA.

BUT GOING INTO THE ABSENTEES AND ANOTHER RANKED CHOICE RUN-OFF, ERIC ADAMS IS STILL IN A GOOD POSITION.

>> I WANT TO PIVOT THE CONVERSATION TO ANOTHER ENTITY, IF YOU WILL, THAT NEW YORKERS DON'T FULLY UNDERSTOOD, AND THAT IS THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

AND, SO, THEN I WANT TO START WITH -- >> I'LL EXIT.

I'LL EXIT NOW.

>> BUT I DO WANT TO START WITH YOU AND ASK YOU, BEN.

BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING TO SOME STATE LAWMAKERS ABOUT WHAT THEIR TAKE IS ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH THIS ORGANIZATION THAT JUST CONSTANTLY SEEMS TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE HEADLINES DURING ELECTIONS.

>> YEAH.

WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT TWO POSSIBLE STAGES OF REFORM HERE.

ONE WOULD BE A BILL IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT'S SPONSORED BY LIZ KRUGER OF MANHATTAN THAT WOULD PUT NEW MANDATES IN TO PROFESSIONALIZE NEW YORK CITY BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

IT WOULD PUT IN NEW REQUIREMENTS AROUND QUALIFICATIONS FOR JOBS.

IT WOULD CREATE NEW POSITIONS AT THE TOP OF THE SORT OF EXECUTIVE MANAGEMENT OF THE BOARD.

YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSIONERS STILL WOULD HAVE A LOT OF POWER AND THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL APPOINTEES COME INTO PLAY, BUT IT WOULD TRY TO ROOT OUT SOME OF THE PATRONAGE ISSUES AND SOME OF THE ISSUES AROUND PEOPLE BEING HIRED TO RUN ELECTIONS WHO ARE NOT AS QUALIFIED AS THEY SHOULD BE.

SO THAT'S ONE POTENTIAL WAY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE SEEN, IS TO PROFESSIONALIZE.

THAT BILL HAS BEEN SITTING IN ALBANY.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE MANY VOTING AND ELECTION REFORMS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS SINCE DEMOCRATS TOOK BOTH HOUSES OF THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT THAT ONE HAS SAT ON THE SIDE IN LARGE PART BECAUSE THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS RELATES TO THE COUNTY POLITICAL PARTIES AND THEY DO NOT WANT REFORM.

THE SECOND STEP TO REALLY OVERHAUL THINGS WOULD BE A STATE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, AND THAT'S A MUCH MORE LONG-TERM COMPLICATED PROCESS.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE ANYWHERE NEAR MOVING TO THAT.

BUT THE STATE SENATE, AT LEAST, IS TALKING ABOUT HOLDING A HEARING IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS ABOUT ELECTION ADMINISTRATION AND VERY LIKELY TO CONSIDER THAT KRUGER-ROSIC BILL THAT WOULD PROFESSIONALIZE THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

BUT NONE OF THIS IS HAPPENING FOR THIS YEAR.

THIS WOULD BE DOWN THE ROAD.

>> ARE THESE GOOD IDEAS TO YOU?

>> OF COURSE.

IT IS ALWAYS GOOD TO PROFESSIONALIZE THE SYSTEM, AS LONG AS IT MAINTAINS THE BIPARTISAN FEEL SO IT.

IT IS IMPORTANT.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT NONPARTISANSHIP, IT IS AN ILLUSION.

IT DOESN'T EXIST.

PEOPLE ARE NATURALLY PARTISAN.

WE ACTUALLY ARE.

WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTIONS, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT WE HAVE A CHECKS AND BALANCE SYSTEM LIKE WE HAVE IN OTHER AGENCIES OF GOVERNMENT, EVEN IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM AS I MENTIONED BEFORE.

THE SEC, THE FCC, ALL ARE PARTISAN.

WE RECOGNIZE THAT PEOPLE ARE NATURAL PARTISAN CREATURES.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, WE RECOGNIZE IT, BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S PROFESSIONAL.

SO ANYTHING TO PROFESSIONALIZE THE AGENCY WILL BE KEY.

IT WILL BE GREAT FOR NEW YORKERS TO SEE THE AGENCY REALLY BE FEARLESS WHEN IT COMES TO SPEAKING TO THE PRESS AND TO VOTERS AND TO BREAK AWAY WITH THE OLD STYLE OF DOING THINGS AND PUTTING OUT STATEMENTS.

I WORKED WITH MANY OF THOSE COMMISSIONERS STILL THERE.

THESE ARE HARD WORKING PEOPLE.

THESE ARE SMART PEOPLE.

THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THE COMMITTEE SYSTEM, HAVE GONE THROUGH THE CITY COUNCIL PROCESS.

OFTEN A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT.

SO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT PROFESSIONALIZING THE BOARD, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT A LOT OF THESE COMMISSIONERS ARE ACTUALLY BRILLIANT AND HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.

NOW, WHEN YOU ARE HIRING 36,000 POLL WORKERS, A LOT OF THOSE POLL WORKERS AT THE END OF THE DAY ARE GOING TO COME FROM WHAT BEN JUST TALKED ABOUT, THE COUNTY ORGANIZATION, RIGHT?

SO THESE COUNTY ORGANIZATIONS PROVIDE MANY OF THE POLL WORKERS THAT ARE TRAINED AND ACTUALLY WORK ON ELECTION DAY.

THEY ARE COUNTY COMMITTEE INDIVIDUALS.

SOME OF THEM ARE DISTRICT LEADERS.

SOME ARE CLOSE TO OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

THE IDEA THAT SOMEHOW WE WILL TAKE AWAY THE POWER OF ELECTED OFFICIALS TO HAVE A SAY ON WHO GETS TO WORK OR BE PART OF THE ELECTION THEY PROCESSED, IT FEELS LIKE PIE IN THE SKY.

I JUST DON'T SEE IT.

I DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING.

WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY.

THINK ABOUT EARLY VOTING IN NEW YORK.

THINK ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED RECENTLY.

AND I THINK NEW YORKERS SHOULD BE HAPPY TO SEE SOME OF THE REFORMS TAKE PLACE.

YOU HAVE YOUR MEETINGS ONLINE YOU CAN SEE.

YOU CAN APPLY FOR JOBS ONLINE.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF REFORMS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE.

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF ROOM FOR GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT.

>> WELL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE WAY, AT LEAST, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HAS HANDLED YESTERDAY'S DEBACLE.

AS BEN HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR, IT WAS A HUMAN ERROR.

IT WAS CAUGHT EARLY.

IT WAS ACKNOWLEDGED EARLY, WHICH IS ALWAYS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND, YOU KNOW, THEY RECOUNTED THE BALLOTS.

BUT YOU WERE TALKING EVEN YESTERDAY ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF SOMEONE COMING OUT AND, YOU KNOW, BEING THE FACE OF THIS AND TALKING TO THE PUBLIC.

>> YEP.

>> WHEREAS, WE GOT MORE OF, YOU KNOW, A SORT OF GENERALIZED STATEMENT.

WE'RE SORRY.

OUR BAD.

WE'RE MOVING ON.

>> YEAH.

I HAVE BEEN IN THOSE ROLES WHEN THESE DECISIONS TAKE PLACE.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THEY BELIEVE IT'S THANKLESS.

THEY BELIEVE COMING OUT IN ANY WAY THAT I'M PREACHING HERE, JUST BEING OPEN WITH THE PRESS AND LETTING BEN HIT YOU A COUPLE OF TIMES, RIGHT, IT IS THANKLESS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THEY SAY, TWITTER WILL SAY WHAT IT SAYS AND FOLKS WILL HAVE THEIR OPINION OF THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

IT'S BEEN THIS WAY SINCE 1950.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT KIND OF PR THAT I WAS HOPING TO SEE YESTERDAY.

BUT AS LONG AS BEN UNDERSTANDS THERE IS A HUMAN ERROR AND THE SMART JOURNALISTS OUT THERE ARE EXPLAINING THAT INEFFICIENCIES HAPPEN IN EVERY SYSTEM, YOU CAN KEEP GOING DOWN THE LIST OF EVERY GOVERNMENT AGENCY THAT ARE ALL INEFFICIENT, ALL NEED ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

I JUST THINK THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS IS NO DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO NEEDING SOME ROOM FOR DEVELOPMENT.

>> OF COURSE.

BEN, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE WAY THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HANDLED THIS?

>> YEAH.

NO.

I THINK IT WAS TERRIBLY HANDLED.

IT WAS GOOD THAT THEY ACKNOWLEDGED IT QUICKLY, AS WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING AND SOUGHT TO FIX IT.

BUT THERE SHOULD BE SOMEBODY COMING OUT AND TALKING ABOUT IT IN FRONT OF THE PRESS TO BE ON TV SO THAT THEY COULD COME ON METROFOCUS.

IMAGES OF THEM COULD BE SEEN, OH, THAT'S THE PERSON THAT'S IN CHARGE HERE.

THAT'S THE PERSON THAT'S TAKING RESPONSIBILITY.

THIS IS THE RUNNING OF OUR DEMOCRACY IN NEW YORK CITY.

THIS CAN'T BE PEOPLE BEHIND SOME CURTAIN WHO WE GET A STATEMENT FROM THEM AND THEN WE'RE WAITING AND WAITING FOR A TWEET OF THE NEW RESULTS.

I MEAN, THIS IS REALLY ABSURD.

AND PEOPLE IN THE PRESS CAN'T EVEN GET GOOD ANSWERS FROM THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS PRESS SHOP.

SO IT'S REALLY IN NEED OF SOME PROFESSIONALIZING, SOME ACCOUNTABILITY.

WHETHER THERE IS A BILL THAT GETS PASSED IN ALBANY OR NOT, THERE SHOULD BE A REAL CLOSE LOOK AT WHO IS RUNNING THIS AGENCY AND NOT JUST THE COMMISSIONERS BUT WHO THEY'RE PUTTING IN CHARGE OF REALLY RUNNING THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF THE ELECTIONS.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A GROUP HERE OF THE TOP, YOU KNOW, SUITE OF LEADERSHIP AND MAYBE A COUPLE OF DOZEN PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT, RIGHT?

THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY GIVING THE ORDERS AT THE VARIOUS SITES AND IN THE VARIOUS BUREAUS.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A RELATIVELY SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE LIKE IN ANY CITY AGENCY THAT ARE REALLY MAKING THE DECISIONS AND NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

BUT THEY SHOULD BE OUT THERE, SNAFU OR NO, THEY SHOULD BE OUT THERE EXPLAINING THINGS TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT HOW THESE ELECTIONS ARE RUN, WHAT'S GONE RIGHT, WHAT'S GONE WRONG.

THE RESULTS SHOULD NOT HAVE JUST BEEN POSTED ONLINE IN THE FIRST PLACE, FAULTY OR NOT.

THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN UNVEILED WITH AN EXPLANATION FROM THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY RUNNING THIS THING.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I THINK AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THERE WILL BE SO MANY LESSONS TO BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.

THIS ELECTION WAS RUN AND HANDLED ON ALL LEVELS, CAMPAIGNS, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS, ET CETERA.

BEFORE WE COME TO OUR CLOSE, I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT ONE OF THE OTHER ELECTIONS THAT SEEMS TO BE AFFECTED BY THIS FIRST ROUND PART TWO.

AND THAT WAS FOR CONTROLLER.

THOSE NUMBERS CAME OUT A LOT CLOSER OR MAYBE NOT AS CLOSE AS PEOPLE THOUGHT.

I'M NOT EVEN SURE.

BUT WHAT WERE YOUR TAKES ON HOW THOSE NUMBERS CHANGED FROM INITIALLY TO THIS OFFICIAL FIRST ROUND.

AND, BEN, I'LL START WITH YOU.

>> SURE.

SO WE SAW ON PRIMARY NIGHT CITY COUNCIL MEMBER BRAD LANDER TAKE A SURPRISINGLY LARGE LEAD OVER COREY JOHNSON AS THE TOP TWO IN THE CITY CONTROLLER RACE.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE PRETTY SURPRISED, EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A LOT OF MOMENTUM, A LOT OF STRONG ENDORSEMENTS, ET CETERA.

THROUGH THE RANKED CHOICE PROCESS, THAT INITIAL LOOK AT IT, THE LEAD HAS TIGHTENED, BUT LANDERS STILL HAS OVER A 20,000 VOTE LEAD.

IT IS VERY LIKELY THE ABSENTEES WILL BE OKAY FOR HIM.

HE DID VERY WELL IN MANHATTAN AND OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY WHERE THE ABSENTEES ARE LIKELY TO COME FROM MORE THAN OTHERS.

BUT THIS COULD BE VERY TIGHT AND CITY COUNCIL COREY JOHNSON WAS CLEARLY SECOND OR THIRD ON A LOT OF BALLOTS.

THAT GAVE HIM THIS BOOST.

HE WAS THE MOST WELL KNOWN FIGURE IN THIS RACE.

SO THIS IS STILL UP FOR GRABS.

YOU ARE FEELING PRETTY COMFORTABLE GOING INTO THE ABSENTEE AND THE REAL RANKED CHOICE RUN-OFF, BUT IT COULD DEFINITELY SWING TO COREY JOHNSON.

>> I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH BEN.

I THINK IT'S VERY SURPRISING THAT COUNCILMAN LANDER HAS DONE SO WELL ON BOTH OF THESE OUTINGS THAT WE SEE FROM THE BOARD.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE SEE HIM WITH A HARVARD MBA AND CHAIRMAN OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE OUT THERE NOT DOING AS WELL AS OTHERS BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A FINANCE BACKGROUND AND CAN ACTUALLY RUN FINANCIAL ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE CONTROLLER'S OFFICE.

AND CONSIDERING HOW -- HOW -- YOU KNOW, HOW WELL BLACK AND LATINO CANDIDATES ARE DOING ACROSS THE CITY, YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE DONE BETTER.

CONSIDERING THE LAST TWO CANDIDATES WILL BE LANDER AND JOHNSON, I THINK IT IS A TELLTALE.

IF LANDER DOES VERY WELL WITH THESE ABSENTEES, WHICH IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE, I WOULD SAY THAT MAYA WILL DO MUCH BETTER THAN WE THINK BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE THAT FOLKS VOTED FOR MAYA AND LANDERS.

SO I THINK THAT PROGRESSIVE WING SIDE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY I THINK VOTING FOR THOSE TWO IN THE TOP ONE OR TWO.

AND I THINK MAYA WILEY WILL DO A LOT BETTER AT THE END OF THE DAY THAN MOST OF US THINK.

AND IT'S INDICATIVE FOR ME IS BRAD LANDER DOING SO EXTREMELY WELL IN THE CONTROLLER'S RACE.

>> WELL, OF COURSE, BEN, I'M SORRY.

WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO SAY?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS LANDER DID TO BE LEADING THIS RACE IS HE SORT OF COMBINED WHERE GARCIA DID WELL AND WHERE WILEY DID WELL, THEY SORT OF SPLIT THINGS UP.

LANDER GOT THE BIG ENDORSEMENT FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES EDITORIAL BOARD THAT GARCIA GOT WHICH WOULD HAVE REALLY HELPED MAYA WILEY IN THIS RACE.

IF THAT HAD GONE THE OTHER WAY, WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT WILEY AND ADAMS.

BUT GARCIA IMPRESSED THEM SO MUCH THAT SHE WOUND UP DOING SO WELL IN MANHATTAN WHERE A LOT OF THE CORE READERSHIP IS.

>> THE LAST TWO IMPORTANT EDITORIAL BOARD ENDORSEMENTS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE LIBERAL PAPER OF THE COUNTRY.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THEY DIDN'T ENFORCE TISH JAMES AND THEY DIDN'T ENDORSE MAYA WILEY FOR MAYOR.

IT IS TELL TAIL TO SEE HOW "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ENDORSEMENT REALLY SHAPES THESE ELECTIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EXACTLY GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO ASSURING TO SEE BLACK WOMEN, ESPECIALLY BLACK DEMOCRATIC WOMEN GET THEIR ENDORSEMENT.

I THINK THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING THING FOR US TO TALK ABOUT AND TO THINK ABOUT HOW "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IN THEIR EDITORIAL BOARD ENDORSEMENTS HAVE NOT HELPED THE BLACK DEMOCRATIC WOMAN POLITICAL MOVEMENT WE HAVE SEEN RECENTLY ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.

>> J.C., I THINK YOU HAVE KICKED OFF A WHOLE NEW CONVERSATION FOR OUR NEXT SHOW, J.C. VER VUS "THE NEW YORK TIMES."

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK BOTH OF MY GUESTS.

ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU ON AND DEFINITELY TO HELP MAKE SENSE OF WHAT HAS FELT LIKE A VERY CONFUSING WEEK ON ALL LEVELS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS, JENNA.

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