♪ ♪ THIS IS "METRO FOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

♪ >>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION, THE JPB FOUNDATION.

♪ >>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M RAFAEL.

FOR OVER 40 YEARS, HE WORKED AS A POLICE OFFICER AND POLICE LEADER, REDUCING CRIME IN POLICE DEPARTMENTS WHEREVER HE WENT.

HE SERVED AS COMMISSIONER TWICE, 20 YEARS APART.

NOW HE HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK THAT WEAVES TOGETHER HIS LIFE AT THE HEIGHT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT LEADERSHIP AND HIS THOUGHTS ON THE STATE OF POLICING IN AMERICA TODAY, ONE OF THE MOST DIVISIVE POLITICAL ISSUES OF OUR TIME.

JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS HIS NEW BOOK, "THE PROFESSION" IS FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER, BILL BRAD.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> IT IS WONDERFUL TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

LESSONS YOU HAVE LEARNED AND IMPLEMENTED, WHERE POLICING IS TODAY AND WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO TO SAVE US FROM THE CRIME AND DISORDER THAT IS BECOMING A REAL BIG CRISIS.

BUT YOU BEGIN THE BOOK WITH THE ASSASSINATIONS OF OFFICER RAFAEL RAMOS AND LU ON DECEMBER 20th, 2014 HERE IN NEW YORK CITY AND THE EVENTS THAT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO BEGIN THE BOOK WITH THIS INCREDIBLY POWERFUL STORY?

AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD GIVE US A SENSE OF THAT STORY.

>> CERTAINLY.

AND THANK YOU FOR BASICALLY BRINGING US ON YOUR SHOW.

THE BOOK, WHICH WAS CO-AUTHORED BY MY GOOD FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE, PETER.

PETER HAD WORKED WITH ME ON MY BIOGRAPHY BACK IN 1998.

THIS IS A MÉMOIRE, SO IT'S REALLY A COMBINATION OF THEMES.

IT IS ABOUT LEADERSHIP.

IT IS ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN FACING AMERICAN POLICING OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS.

IT'S ABOUT THE IDEA OR THE GROWTH OF THE PROFESSION FROM 1978 ON UP THROUGH YOU AND I TALKING HERE TODAY.

IT'S ABOUT SO MANY ISSUES, SO MUCH CENTER STAGE, FRONT STAGE AT THE MOMENT.

AND THE TELLING OF THAT STORY, THE ASSASSINATION OF RAMOS AND LU WAS INTENTIONAL BECAUSE IT'S INTENDED TO BRING THE READER INTO THE COMPLEXITIES OF HOW DID WE GET TO A POINT WHERE SOMEBODY WOULD ASSASSINATION TWO NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICERS, TRAVEL ALL THE WAY TO BALTIMORE TO LITERALLY KILL TWO POLICE OFFICERS, AND HOW DID WE ARRIVE AT THAT POINT IN TIME?

AND IT BRINGS INTO THE STORY THAT FIRST CHAPTER OF ISSUES IN RACE, ISSUES OF THE PROFESSION OF POLICING, WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

IT BRINGS IN A NUMBER OF PERSONAL STORIES.

IT INTRODUCES YOU TO A NUMBER OF CHARACTERS IN THE BOOK AT DIFFERENT TIMES THROUGHOUT THAT BOOK.

AND IT'S A VERY COMPELLING CHAPTER.

AND IT'S ALSO ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT EVENTS IN MY 50-YEAR CAREER.

THE IDEA OF TWO POLICE OFFICERS MURDERED SITTING IN THEIR POLICE CAR.

AND IT ALSO BRINGS INTO CONTEXT THE ISSUES THAT NEW YORK HAS BEEN WRESTLING WITH FOR YEARS, RACE AND POLICE, BUT ALSO MAYOR BILL de BLASIO, NEWLY ELECTED PROGRESSIVE MAYOR IN 2013.

AND THE TURMOIL THAT BASICALLY WENT ON BETWEEN HIM AND THE NYPD RANK AND FILE, THE UNIONS, FOR THE REMAINDER OF HIS TERM.

STILL GOES ON AT THIS TIME AS WE'RE TALKING.

YOU KNOW, IN THAT CHAPTER, YOU WRITE THAT YOU FOUND OUT LATER YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU WERE WEEPING AT SOME POINT WHEN YOU WENT TO SEE THE TWO POLICE OFFICERS IN THE HOSPITAL.

AND AS I WAS TELLING YOU BEFORE WE STARTED RECORDING, I DARE ANYBODY TO FINISH THAT CHAPTER WITHOUT WEEPING BECAUSE IT'S THAT -- IT'S THAT MOVING.

>> OH, WHEN YOU THINK OF THE PLAY "HAMILTON," IT PUTS YOU IN THE ROOM.

IT LITERALLY PUTS YOU INTO THE EMERGENCY ROOM OF THAT HOSPITAL WITH AN INTIMACY THAT, AGAIN, IT -- WHEN WE INTERVIEWED COMMISSIONER TO NEAL THROUGHOUT THE BOOK, HE HAD A TEAR -- TEARS IN HIS EYES AS HE TRIED TO TELL THE STORY.

>> AFTER THAT FIRST CHAPTER, YOU BEGAN TO TELL YOUR STORY AS A POLICE OFFICER, A STORY WHICH BEGAN IN BOSTON.

AND ALTHOUGH YOU DID NOT COME FROM A FAMILY OF COPS, WHICH APPARENTLY WAS A BIG DEMERIT IN BOSTON, YOU NEVERTHELESS ROSE THROUGH THE RANKS VERY, VERY QUICKLY.

WHAT WAS THE SECRET OF YOUR SUCCESS, AND WHAT WERE THE LESSONS THAT YOU LEARNED DURING THAT EARLY PERIOD THAT SERVED YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR CAREER?

>> WELL, THE SECRET OF MY SUCCESS IN TERMS OF THE EARLY RISE THROUGH THE RANKS OF THE BOSTON POLICE WAS, ONE, AMBITION.

TWO, A GREAT BELIEF IN THE IMPORTANCE OF POLICE AND THE POLICE PROFESSION.

AND SHEER HAPPENSTANCE AND LUCK THAT AS I WAS GETTING READY TO LEAVE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT I ENTERED WAS NOT THE ONE I TALKED ABOUT.

IT WAS NOT PARTICULARLY PROFESSIONAL.

IT WAS BRUTAL IN SOME INSTANCES, CORRUPT IN OTHERS AND RACIST IN OTHERS.

AND I WAS PLANNING TO LEAVE, BUT THEN A ROLE MODEL FOR ME FOR THE REST OF MY CAREER, THE IDEA OF A TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADER ARRIVED, BROUGHT IN FROM MONTGOMERY COUNTY IN ST. LOUIS.

ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

AND HE CAME IN TO THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT TO CLEAN IT UP, AND HE DID.

AND HE CREATED AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE YOUNG, AMBITIOUS PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF AND MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MOVE AHEAD IN THAT OLD DEPARTMENT BECAUSE OF CIVIL SERVICE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT PLACED TREMENDOUS EMPHASIS ON SENIORITY, HE TURNED IT UPSIDE DOWN AND CHANGED THE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM TO THAT IN JULY OF 1975, FIVE YEARS ON THE JOB, I WAS PROMOTED TO SERGEANT, YOUNGER SERGEANT UP UNTIL THAT POINT IN TIME.

AND HE'S BEEN A ROLE MODEL FOR ANY DEPARTMENT I HAVE EVER GONE INTO SO THAT ONE MAN, ONE LEADER CAN INSPIRE AND CREATE GREAT CHANGE.

>> SO LET'S FAST FORWARD TO 1994 WHEN YOU WERE TAPPED TO BECOME NEW YORK CITY'S POLICE COMMISSIONER.

CAN YOU SUMMARIZE FOR US HOW THAT CAME ABOUT?

I KNOW IT IS A TOUGH JOB BECAUSE SOME THINGS HAPPEN, BUT SUMMARIZE HOW THAT CAME ABOUT AND WHAT YOU SUMMARIZE THAT AS BEING.

>> THE BOOK GOES INTO A LOT OF DETAIL.

I WILL HAVE TO SUMMARIZE FOR YOU.

IN 1989, AS A LIEUTENANT OF THE POLICE IN BOSTON, I WAS APPROACHED BY TWO COLLEAGUES, FRIENDS, MENTORS.

GEORGE KELLY ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF "BROKEN WINDOWS."

THEY WERE CONSULTING WITH THE TRANSIT AUTHORITY, THE MTA HERE IN NEW YORK CITY AND SPECIFICALLY ON CRIME AND DISORDER, WHICH WAS RAMPID.

AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE MTA WAS DESPERATE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT PROBLEM.

IT WAS DRIVING RIDERSHIP OUT OF THE SYSTEM.

THEY RECRUITED ME TO COME IN AS CHIEF OF THE TRANSIT POLICE.

10th LARGEST AT THAT TIME IN THE COUNTRY.

CHILDHOOD DREAM ABOUT NEW YORK, ABOUT GOING TO NEW YORK, AND HERE WAS THE HOSPITAL.

IT WASN'T THE NYPD BUT IT WAS CLOSE.

CAME DOWN.

HAD GREAT SUCCESS GETTING CRIME TURNED AROUND IN THE SUBWAY.

A LOT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE UP IN THE STREET IT WAS NOT DECLINING NEARLY AS RAPIDLY AS THE CHANGES BELOW GROUND.

A MALE CANDIDATE WHO LOST THE MAYOR RACE THAT YEAR, 1990, WAS RUDY GIULIANI.

FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS HE PLOTTED HIS COMEBACK, AND HE WAS AWARE OF THE TURN-AROUND IN THE SUBWAY THAT HAD BEEN SO MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN THE STREETS.

HE APPROACHED KELLY AND I TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW DID IT HAPPEN.

AND ABOUT A YEAR OR SO AFTER THAT CONVERSATION HE RAN FOR AND WAS ELECTED MAYOR.

I AT THAT TIME HAD BECOME POLICE COMMISSIONER IN BOSTON AND RECRUITED ME TO BE HIS FIRST POLICE COMMISSIONER SO BASED ON THE SUCCESS IN THE SUBWAYS, THAT'S HOW I ENDED UP FULFILLING A, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, A LIFELONG DREAM TO BE POLICE COMMISSIONER IN NEW YORK.

>> I BELIEVE IT.

>> YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT.

>> SO YOU, AS MOST OF OUR VIEWERS PROBABLY KNOW, YOU HAD AMAZING SUCCESS WHILE -- YOU WERE WILDLY SUCCESSFUL IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS.

COULD YOU TELL US -- COULD YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF THE TRANSFORMATION THAT YOU BROUGHT?

AND COULD YOU TELL US WHAT THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES THAT YOU IMPLEMENTED WERE THAT RESULTED IN THAT TRANSFORMATION.

>> AS I REFERENCED EARLIER, THE MÉMOIRE IS MANY THINGS IN ITS HISTORY OF POLICING.

IT'S AN EXPERIENCE BOOK, AND IN MY CASE, I BELIEVE I'M A TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADER.

I HAVE ALWAYS STRIVED TO BE A LEADER.

I PURPOSELY GO TO ORGANIZATIONS IN CRISES.

SIX AGENCIES, CONSULTED WITH DOZENS, MAYBE CLOSE TO 100 OVER THE YEARS.

I ALWAYS LOOK FOR CRISES BECAUSE CRISES BRINGS OPPORTUNITIES TO ACCELERATE PACE AND CHANGE.

SO GOING INTO THE NYPD, IT WAS AN ORGANIZATION IN CRISIS BECAUSE CRIME AND DISORDER IN NEW YORK HAD NOT GONE DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY ENOUGH THAT IT ALLOWED GIULIANI TO BE ELECTED OVER THE CITY'S FIRST BLACK MAYOR.

WE SET OUT IMMEDIATELY CREATING CHANGE.

ONE OF THE THINGS I DO AS A LEADER, I FOLLOW JIM COLLINS' ADVICE.

GET THE RIGHT PEOPLE ON THE BUS, THE WRONG PEOPLE OFF THE BUS AND GET THEM INTO THE RIGHT SEATS.

I MOVE VERY QUICKLY IN AN ORGANIZATION TO DO JUST THAT.

GET RID OF THOSE WHERE I CAN WHO ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE MISSION TO DRIVE THAT BUS DOWN THE ROAD.

AND IN THE CASE OF THE NYPD, I HAD A SUPER BOWL TEAM THAT FIRST TIME AT BAT.

IN 27 MONTHS, THAT TEAM REDUCED CRIME IN NEW YORK CITY BY ALMOST 40%.

TOTALLY DISRUPTED THE DISORDERLY BEHAVIOR SO PERVASIVE IN THE CITY.

SO THE CITY BECAME SAFE AND THE PARKS BECAME SAFE BEFORE RUDY GIULIANI AND I HAD OUR FOLLOWING OUT ON THAT.

THINK OF THE TEAM I HAD.

WENT ON TO BE POLICE COMMISSIONER IN PHILADELPHIA, CHIEF OF MIAMI.

JACK MAPLE, ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE THAT EVER EXISTED, AND HIS KNOWLEDGE OF CRIME AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

MY CHIEF OF THE DEPARTMENT.

JOHN VILLA.

JOHN HAS WORKED WITH ME IN THE LAPD, CAME BACK WITH ME AS MY COUNTER TERRORISM CHIEF.

JOHN IS JUST BRILLIANT.

I HAD A PHENOMENAL TEAM.

AND WE CAME UP WITH STRATEGIES, AND WE INVOLVED HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS IN THE DEPARTMENT IN DEVELOPING THOSE STRATEGIES.

I'M A GREAT BELIEVER IN THE CONCEPT OF COMMON GROUND THAT GET PEOPLE TO COME ON TO COMMON GROUND WITH THEIR IDEAS, THEIR VISIONS, THEIR THOUGHTS, THEIR ISSUES AND GET THEM TO SHARE AND THEN BASICALLY FROM THAT DEVELOP A STRATEGIC PLAN SO THAT AS YOU GO FORWARD, EVERYBODY FEELS THAT THEY HAVE GOT OWNERSHIP OF AT LEAST SOME PART OF THAT PLAN SO THAT EVERYBODY ON THE BUS ACTUALLY IS ON THAT BUS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE.

>> NOW, SOMETHING THAT YOU SPECIFICALLY IMPLEMENTED THAT HAD NOT BEEN DONE BEFORE IS WHAT'S CALLED COMSTAT.

CAN YOU SUMMARIZE FOR US WHAT EXACTLY THAT MEANT?

>> IT IS SHORT FOR COMPUTER STATISTICS.

POLICING HAD DONE A TERRIBLE JOB IN THE '70s AND '80s PREVENTING CRIME.

HOW MANY ARRESTS DID YOU MAKE?

AFTER CRIMES THAT OCCURRED.

AND DID A VERY POOR JOB OF REALLY TRACKING CRIME AS IT WAS OCCURRING.

THE ROLE OF POLICE WAS TO RESPOND.

I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED GOING BACK TO MY EXPOSURE BACK IN BOSTON TO SIR ROBERT PEEL IN HIS NINE PRINCIPLES OF POLICING, WHICH I SPEND A LOT TIME TALKING ABOUT IN THE BOOK.

THE FIRST ONE OF THOSE PRINCIPLES SINCE HE WAS THE CREATOR OF THE POLICE IN LONDON IN 1929, BUT HIS PRINCIPALS ARE MORE APPLICABLE TODAY THAN THEY WERE BACK THEN.

THE FIRST REASON THE POLICE EXIST IS TO PREVENT CRIME AND DISORDER.

YOU HAVE TO WORK ON CRIME AND DISORDER AT THE SAME TIME OR YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED IN THE PREVENTION OF CRIME AND DISORDER.

THAT'S WHAT WE DID IN NEW YORK.

WE WENT AFTER DISORDER.

BUT WE WENT AFTER CRIME IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

HOW IS THAT?

WE TRACKED IT INTIMATELY, TIMELY ACCURATE INTELLIGENCE.

GATHER UP THOSE CRIME REPORTS EVERY DAY, PUT THEM ON A MAP AND YOU QUICKLY SEE HOT SPOTS DEVELOPING OR PATTERNS AND TRENDS.

SECONDLY, RESPOND IMMEDIATELY TO THAT RESPONDING PATTERN OR TREND.

WE CALL IT COPS ON THE DOTS.

THIRDLY, EFFECTIVE TACTICS.

WHAT IS GOING TO WORK?

WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET CONTROL OF THAT IDENTIFIED PROBLEM.

THEN LASTLY, ONCE YOU THINK YOU CURED IT, KEEP COMING BACK TO CHECK ON IT TO MAKE SURE IT IS NOT STARTING TO CREEP BACK IN AGAIN.

AND IF YOU THINK OF IT, ISN'T THAT WHAT A DOCTOR DOES WHEN HE'S LOOKING AT FOR YOU CANCER?

HE FINDS IT, TESTS IT.

TRY TO USE RADIATION, TRY TO USE CHEMO.

MIGHT HAVE TO DO SURGERY.

THAT'S WHAT WE DO IN POLICING.

THE CHALLENGE FOR A POLICE LEADER, POLICE LEADERSHIP IS TO USE THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF MEDICINE ON THE PATIENT.

AND FROM TIME TO TIME WE USE TOO MUCH MEDICINE, AND THAT'S THE STOP AND RISK POLICY IN NEW YORK.

>> BUT FOR TIME'S SAKE, THE WAY YOU DEALT WITH DISORDER AND THE WAY YOU DEALT IN ORDER TO PREVENT CRIME FROM HAPPENING WAS BY IMPLEMENTING WHAT IS CALLED THE BROKEN WINDOW THEORY, WHICH YOU ALREADY MENTIONED THAT.

I WONDER IF YOU COULD SUMMARIZE WHAT THAT THEORY WAS.

>> BROKEN WINDOWS, AGAIN, COPS HAVE TO DEAL WITH SERIOUS CRIME.

BROKEN WINDOWS ARE TO DEAL WITH QUALITY OF LIFE CRIMES, PROSTITUTION, GRAFFITI, AGGRESSIVE BEGGING, THE SKIGY PESTS.

MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO BE THE VICTIMS OF SERIOUS CRIME.

BUT EVERYBODY IS VICTIMIZED BY THINGS THEY SEE AROUND THEM THAT CREATE FEAR, AGGRESSIVE BEGGING.

AND IN NEW YORK THE STREETS AND SUBWAYS WERE OVERFLOWING WITH THAT.

BY FOCUSSING ON THAT, IT IS THE CONCEPT OF THAT IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF THE LITTLE THINGS, IT ENCOURAGING MORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

SO THAT GOES BACK TO SIR ROBERT PEEL AGAIN.

YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH CRIME AND DISORDER AT THE SAME TIME.

IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH SERIOUS CRIME BUT NOT DEALING WITH WHAT BREEDS IT, YOU ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE MORE SERIOUS CRIME ALL THE TIME.

>> YOU IMPLEMENTED THAT.

AND FOR YEARS I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT BROKEN WINDOWS.

I INTERVIEWED GEORGE KELLY.

HE WAS VERY POPULAR.

IN THE BOOK YOU WRITE THAT "BROKEN WINDOWS" HAS TODAY BECOME AN ACTIVIST SHORTHAND FOR RACIST POLICE BEHAVIOR AND ZERO TOLERANCE POLICING.

WHY HAS THAT HAPPENED?

>> THAT'S THE WORLD WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW, THAT IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING GOOD THAT WE HAVE TRIED IN POLICING THAT HAS WORKED IS NOW UNDER ATTACK BY, I WOULD DESCRIBE IT AS THE VERY LEFT, PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT, BLM, BLACK LIVES MATTER, THAT ORGANIZATION.

BASICALLY ITS FOUNDATION WAS ATTACKING THE POLICE AND TRYING TO UNDERMINE EVERYTHING THAT I BELIEVED IN, EVERYTHING I HAD USED TO IMPLEMENT THE TREMENDOUS CRIME REDUCTIONS AND ORDER CONTROL THAT WE HAD PUT INTO NEW YORK, L.A., BACK IN NEW YORK AGAIN.

AND THEY EQUATE BROKEN WINDOWS WITH RACIST POLICING BECAUSE IT BRINGS POLICE INTO MINORITY NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE WHAT IS BROKEN WINDOWS?

IT IS WHAT PEOPLE CALL 311 ABOUT.

THE PROSTITUTE ON THE CORNER, THE GANG KEEPING YOU UP ALL NIGHT DRINKING DOWN ON THE STREET.

THE 311 CALLS COME LARGELY FROM OUR POOREST COMMUNITIES ABOUT BROKEN WINDOWS.

SO TRUE COMMUNITY POLICING, AND THIS IS WHAT KELLY WAS SO FRUSTRATED AT THE END OF HIS LIFE ABOUT, BROKEN WINDOWS IS COMMUNITY POLICING.

EVERYBODY IS WILLING TO EMBRACE THAT, BUT BLM EVEN CRITICIZE COMMUNITY POLICING.

I DON'T GET IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS IT.

AND THAT'S THE IDEA OF POLICE AND PARTNERSHIP IDENTIFYING THE COMMUNITY'S PROBLEMS AND THEN SHARING RESPONSIBILITY FOR DEALING WITH THOSE PROBLEMS.

FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

TO PREVENT THEM FROM COMING BACK, GOING BACK TO SIR ROBERT PEEL AGAIN.

SO IF YOU SEE SOME COMMON THREADS HERE, BROKEN WINDOWS POLICING, COMSTAT POLICING, COMMUNITY POLICING, IT IS LIKE WEAVING A GARMENT.

RIGHT NOW THERE ARE THOSE THAT BECAUSE OF THEIR DISLIKE OF POLICE, THEIR BELIEF THAT POLICE ARE RACIST, THEIR IDEA THAT EVERYTHING POLICE DO HAS A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON MINORITY COMMUNITIES ARE ATTACKING ALMOST AMERICAN POLICING IS SUCCESSFUL.

>> YOU MENTIONED STOP, QUESTION AND FRISK.

USUALLY NO ONE SAYS STOP AND FRISK.

>> THAT'S CORRECT, INCORRECTLY.

>> WELL, THAT -- YOU USED IT DURING YOUR FIRST TENURE, BUT IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, THE USE OF IT EXPLODED DURING THE BLOOMBERG AND COMMISSIONER KELLY PERIOD TO THE POINT WHERE ONE YEAR IT WAS SAID ALMOST 700,000 STOPPED QUESTION AND FRISK INCIDENTS.

WHY DID THE NUMBERS GROW SO LARGE AND WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT.

>> I TALK ABOUT A LOT EXTENSIVELY IN THE BOOK.

THAT'S WHY IT'S 500 PAGES.

STOP, QUESTION AND FRISK, AND I EMPHASIZE THE QUESTION BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT BACK IN 1968 LITERALLY SET THE GUIDELINES.

IT IS AN ESSENTIAL BASIC TOOL OF POLICING.

YOU HEAR A LOT OF POLITICIANS SAY THEY WILL STOP IT.

YOU CAN'T STOP IT.

IT'S CONSTITUTIONALLY AFFECTED AND NO POLICE FORCE CAN BE EFFECTIVE IF IT DOESN'T USE IT.

IT IS LIKE A DOCTOR TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT MAKES YOU ILL.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE POLICE OUT ON THE STREET LOOKING FOR SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOR AND ACTING ON IT, THEN NOTHING WILL GET ADDRESSED AS FAR AS CRIME GOES.

SO YOU TO THE STOP.

YOU AUTHORIZE THE STOP AND QUESTION AND IF YOU BELIEVE IT AND IT IS AN ARCTICABLE REASON WHY YOU BELIEVE IT, YOU CAN PAT SOMEBODY DOWN, AND THAT'S THE TERM FRISK, TO SEE IF THEY MIGHT HAVE A WEAPON.

THE RISK ONLY OCCURS IN A SMALL MINORITY OF CASES.

MOST OF THEM STOP AND QUESTION.

THAT'S WHY IT DRIVES ME CRAZY WHEN THEY LEAVE OUT THE QUESTION.

YOUR POINT ABOUT COMMISSIONER KELLY, IT'S IRONIC THAT HE AND BLOOMBERG WERE VERY WELL RESPECTED AND LIKED BY THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

WHY?

CRIME KEPT GOING DOWN THROUGHOUT HIS 12 YEARS OF POLICE COMMISSIONER IN THE MIDST OF TERROR CRISES, ECONOMIC CRISES.

BUT RAY LOST 7,000 OFFICERS DURING THAT TIME.

ABOUT 70 OFFICERS PER PRECINCT.

TWICE A YEAR THE DEPARTMENT GRADUATES ABOUT 1,500 YOUNG KIDS OUT OF THE ACADEMY.

HE WOULD ASSIGN THEM TO THE 25 HIGHEST CRIME.

THOSE KIDS WERE NOT PROPERLY SUPERVISED IN MANY INSTANCES AND WERE ENCOURAGED TO DO STOPPED.

AND THOSE STOPS WERE DOCUMENTED.

THEY WERE MEASURED IN COMSTAT AND THAT'S WHERE THE MISTAKE BECAME A REAL PROBLEM BECAUSE HOW DO YOU MEASURE SOMETHING THAT IS BASED ON SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT EVEN HAPPENED YET?

IT'S BASED ON REASONABLE SUSPICION.

SO COMMANDERS GOT THE MESSAGE, THE COMMISSIONER WANTS MORE STOPS.

WHAT HAPPENS?

THE REASONABLE SUSPICION STARTS LOWERING.

AND THAT'S WHAT A FEDERAL COURT FOUND, THAT THE DEPARTMENT WAS ENGAGING IN A PRACTICE THAT WAS HAVING A DESPERATE IMPACT ON MINORITY COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY BLACK COMMUNITIES.

>> IN THE BOOK -- I'M SKIPPING STUFF HERE BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT FOUR MINUTES LEFT.

BUT IN THE BOOK YOU ASK THE QUESTION, IS THERE SYSTEMIC RACISM IN AMERICAN POLICING?

AND YOUR ANSWER IS YES BUT.

WHAT DID YOU MEAN?

>> YES, BUT IN THERE IS SYSTEMIC RACISM IN ALMOST EVERY ASPECT OF AMERICAN LIFE.

SOME TIMES IT'S BEEN WORSE THAN OTHER TIMES.

IN POLICING JIM CROW SOUTH, THAT WAS SYSTEMIC RACISM.

IT WAS POLICING IN THE SOUTH WAS INTENDED TO KEEP THE BLACKS DOWN.

IN THE PROFESSION TODAY IN THE UNITED STATES, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THE PROFESSION.

THERE IS SYSTEMIC RACISM ON THE PART OF SOME OFFICERS, MAYBE SOME DEPARTMENTS.

BUT THE PROFESSION ITSELF HAS MOVED ON BEYOND THAT.

WE NOW TRAIN FOR IT.

WE NOW REALLY SEEK TO ADDRESS IT.

BUT LET'S FACE IT, WE ARE A COUNTRY WHERE RACISM IS WITH US FOR 400 YEARS AND STILL IS.

>> WELL, COMMISSIONER, WHETHER IT EXISTS OR NOT, IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE IT EXISTS.

THE EXPLOSION OF DEMONSTRATIONS AND RIOTS THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD WHICH YOU CALL 100% MURDER, DOESN'T THAT DEMONSTRATE THAT AT THE VERY LEAST THERE IS A PERCEPTION AMONG A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION THAT AMERICAN POLICING IS SYSTEMICALLY RACIST?

>> SOME OF THOSE AND THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS DO BELIEVE THAT.

BUT THE WIDE VARIETY OF PEOPLE THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THAT EVENT WERE PROTESTING MANY THINGS.

BRUTALITY OF POLICING, BUT SOME OF IT HAD TO DO WITH THAT PERCEPTION AND THE BELIEF ON THE PART OF MANY.

BUT THERE WERE MANY THINGS BEING DEMONSTRATED AGAINST.

BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PERCEPTION AS WELL AS THE REALITY.

AND PERCEPTION SOMETIMES IS HARDER TO DISPEL THAN THE REALITY.

>> YOU KNOW, IN THE BOOK AT ONE POINT YOU SAY THAT AT ONE POINT YOU FELT THAT EVERYTHING YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HAD ACCOMPLISHED TO REDUCE CRIME IN THE CITIES THAT YOU WORKED AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OTHERS FOLLOWED YOU WAS BEING ERASED.

YOU SAY YOU MIGHT AGAINST THAT URGE AND THEN YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE A SET OF SUGGESTIONS, OF PROPOSALS IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE GAINS WERE NOT ERASED.

GIVE US THOSE -- IN ABOUT TWO MINUTES, GIVE US THOSE SUGGESTIONS.

>> I DESCRIBED THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER WHERE POLICING HAD BEEN REFORMING FOR 40 YEARS.

I'M ONE OF ITS PRINCIPAL REFORMERS.

IN NEW YORK CITY WE HAD CRIME DOWN.

WE HAD ARRESTS DOWN.

WE HAD CITATIONS DOWN.

AND THEN ALBANY, THE LEGISLATION COMES IN AND WANTS TO PUT IN ADDITIONAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM AND MADE A MESS OUT OF IT.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A NEED FOR REFORM, BUT WHAT THEY DID IS REFORM THE REFORMS AND SCREWED IT ALL UP.

GOING FORWARD, THERE IS A TIME OUT OF THIS CRISES TO, AS I HAVE ALWAYS SOUGHT TO DO, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT CRISIS TO GET PEOPLE TO COMMON GROUND, TO LAY OUT ALL OF THE ISSUES SO THEY UNDERSTAND IT, QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, THE ISSUE OF DEFUND THE POLICE, THE ISSUE OF IMPLICIT BIAS SO THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT ARE THE ISSUES AND CONCERN, PERCEPTIONS OF REALITY AND LET'S TALK IT THROUGH.

SO THE CHALLENGE FOR AMERICAN POLICING, THE CHALLENGE FOR AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS POLICE RESPOND TO GOVERNMENT LEADERS AND POLITICIANS IS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS OPPORTUNITY AS SUCH GREAT CONCERN, TO LEARN FROM THE PAST AND MOVE FORWARD AND NOT REPEAT THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST BUT AMPLIFY OUR SUCCESSES.

AND THERE WERE MANY SUCCESSES.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THINGS HAVE TO GET A LOT WORSE BEFORE ELECTED OFFICIALS, POLITICIANS AND THOSE IN POWER BEGIN TO IMPLEMENT THE THINGS YOU BELIEVE NEED TO BE IMPLEMENTED TO CHANGE THINGS BACK?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, YES.

AND WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT AT THE MOMENT BECAUSE THIS SUMMER IS GOING TO BE AWFUL.

BASED ON THE TRENDING OF THE RISE AND MURDERS, SHOOTINGS AND PARTICULARLY IN OUR MINORITY COMMUNITIES AND THE FEAR THAT THAT'S GENERATING.

I SEE NOTHING BEING DONE BY MOST POLICE AGENCIES THAT WILL SLOW THAT DOWN OR ACTUALLY STOP IT.

AND THAT'S TRAGIC.

AND BUT IT'S -- THIS PLAGUE, IF YOU WILL, THIS VIRUS, THIS CRIME VIRUS, UNLIKE THE VIRUS OF THE EARLY '90s THAT LOOK THE '70s AND '80s TO BUILD UP.

ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WAS YEAR AND IN ONE YEAR IT TOTALLY UNDID MOST OF THE GAINS.

WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IN 2021, REMINDS VERY MUCH OF 1970, THAT 50 YEARS AFTER POLICING WE'RE BACK WHERE WE STARTED.

>> ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER.

I'M AFRAID WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

BUT THE BOOK IS "THE PROFESSION."

IT'S NOT ONLY AN IMPORTANT BOOK, IT'S A GREAT READ AND I STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU.

>>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

♪