>>> THIS IS METROFOCUS.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO THE METROFOCUS FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

IT'S OUR BIWEEKLY LOOK AHEAD AT THE NEWS MAKING LOCAL AND NATIONAL HEADLINES AND THE POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE TRI-STATE.

SO TONIGHT WE'LL START WITH THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT ALLEGATIONS AGAINST GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO, WHO FINDS HIMSELF FACING MOUNTING CRITICISM FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS SURPRISE ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE NEW YORK CITY SCHOOLS CHANCELLOR THAT HE WILL BE STEPPING DOWN AT THE END OF THE MONTH.

WHAT DOES HIS RESIGNATION MEAN TO THE COUNTRY'S LARGEST SCHOOL DISTRICT?

A MINIMUM WAGE HIKE DEAD ON ARRIVAL?

WHAT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES FOR THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT?

WE'LL ALSO GET INTO THE GRAND JURY DECISION ON THE CASE OF DANIEL PRUE.

LET'S GET STARTED.

BACK WITH ME TONIGHT TO DISCUSS THESE STORIES AND OTHER MAJOR HEADLINES THEY THINK WILL DRIVE THE NEWS THIS WEEK UP FIRST WE HAVE OUR RETURNING GUEST, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CHAIR OF THE CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION, AND HOST OF NEWS MAX'S SATURDAY AGENDA.

JOSEPH, AS ALWAYS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE ALSO HAVE WITH US RETURNING GUEST, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY AND A SENIOR SCHOLAR AT THE EAGLETON INSTITUTE OF POLITICS.

PROFESSOR ANBAR WELCOME BACK.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE THANK YOU.

>> WE HAVE A RETURNING METROFOCUS GUEST BUT PERHAPS NOT RETURNING TO THE ROUND TABLE, THE EDITOR AT LARGE OF CITY LIMITS MAGAZINE.

WELCOME TO METROFOCUS.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> LET'S GET STARTED.

ACTUALLY, GIVEN THAT YOU COVER CITY AND STATE POLITICS LET'S START OFF WITH THE LATEST ALLEGATIONS AGAINST GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO.

AT THIS POINT WE HAVE TWO WOMEN WHO HAVE COME FORWARD WITH ACCUSATIONS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND THAT IS OF COURSE ON TOP OF THE CRITICISM THE GOVERNMENT -- THE GOVERNOR EXCUSE ME IS FACING OVER HIS HANDLING OF THE CRISIS OF COVID SPREADING IN NURSING HOMES AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE PATIENTS.

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IS THIS -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY LIKE A POLITICAL PYLON, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS IS NEW YORK POLITICS AND THIS IS A GOVERNOR GOING INTO YET ANOTHER CAMPAIGN FOR YET ANOTHER TERM.

IS THIS A COINCIDENCE OR ANYTHING TO BE READ FROM THE TIMING OF THIS ALL COMING OUT NOW?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS CONNECTED TO THE CAMPAIGN BUT I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT IT'S LIKE A TSUNAMI KIND OF GATHERING STRENGTH AND SIZE WEEK BY WEEK.

YOU MENTIONED THIS IS COMING ON TOP OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT NURSING HOMES, HIS DECISIONS REGARDING PLACEMENT OF PATIENTS THERE, HIS TRANSPARENCY OR LACK THEREOF AROUND DEATHS AND ACCOUNTING OF DEATHS AND A CONVERSATION ABOUT HIS LEADERSHIP STYLE WITH PEOPLE LIKE MAYOR DE BLASIO, FORMER JOURNALISTS COMING FORWARD TO TALK ABOUT BEING BROW BEAT BY THE GOVERNOR AND OF COURSE YOU MENTION THESE TWO WOMEN COMING FORWARD BOTH OF WHOM ARE ALLEGING SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ONE I WOULD SAY ALLEGING SOMETHING BEYOND THAT, THE ACTUAL UNWANTED, FORCEABLE KISSING THAT THE GOVERNOR IS ACCUSED OF.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT PLAYS INTO THE CAMPAIGN CALENDAR BUT I KNOW THAT IT IS ABSOLUTELY TEARING THAT CALENDAR UP BOTH HERE ON THE CITY LEVEL, IN TERMS OF WHAT CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR MAYOR WE ARE EXPECTING, THAT IS TO FIGURE OUT, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THEY'RE ALL BEING ASKED IS HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DEAL WITH GOVERNOR CUOMO SINCE MAYOR DE BLASIO OBVIOUSLY COULD NOT.

THE IDEA BECAUSE OF WHAT I FEEL IS UNLIKELY RESIGNATION OR IMPEACHMENT OR PERHAPS MORE LIKELY THAT HE NOT RUN OR LOSE HIS RE-ELECTION BID REALLY RESHAPES THE LANDSCAPE TREMENDOUSLY.

THAT IS JUST A TOTAL POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE HERE IN NEW YORK.

ONE THING FOLKS COUNTED ON WAS THAT ANDREW CUOMO WOULD BE HERE TO KICK BILL DE BLASIO AROUND AND PERHAPS THE NEXT MAYOR TOO.

THAT MAY NOT BE THE CASE.

>> PROFESSOR, AGAIN, YOUR THOUGHTS.

YOU'VE STUDIED, I SHOULD SAY YOU'VE WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT THE FATHER MARIO CUOMO BUT JUST YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS GATHERING STORM OVER GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO.

>> SURE.

YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR, THE PRESENT GOVERNOR AND HIS FATHER ARE VERY DIFFERENT MEN, VERY DIFFERENT POLITICIANS.

AND DIFFERENT REPUTATIONS TO BE FRANK.

THIS IS ONE WAY OF THINKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT INDIVIDUALS SHOULD HAVE THIRD AND PERHAPS FOURTH TERMS, YOU KNOW, THE ACCUMULATION OF POWER OVER TIME PRESENTS ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS.

THEY'RE PROBLEMS OF DEMOCRACY, PROBLEMS THAT ARE PERSONAL IN TERMS OF THE WIELDING OF POWER, BUT CERTAINLY THESE ALLEGATIONS HAVE TO AND I THINK WILL BE TREATED WITH THE UTMOST SERIOUSNESS.

OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNOR IS ENTITLED TO A FAIR HEARING.

BUT THESE ARE VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS AND RIGHT NOW MORE THAN ANYTHING THE PRESENT PROBLEM IS BETWEEN THIS AND HIS HANDLING OF COVID IN NURSING HOMES IS WHETHER OR NOT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE AN EFFECTIVE EXECUTIVE.

WHETHER OR NOT THESE PROBLEMS ARE MOUNTING IN A WAY THAT ARE GOING TO IMPACT HIS ABILITY TO DO THE JOB.

HE'LL SAY THAT'S NOT THE CASE BUT ONE SCANDAL, YOU KNOW, BACKED BY A SECOND AND NOW IN THIS INSTANCE A SECOND ALLEGATION ON TOP OF WHAT HE IS ALREADY DEALING WITH HAVE TO RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS ABILITY TO BE EFFECTIVE AND TRULY REPRESENT THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK WELL.

>> YOU KNOW, LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED CONCERNS ABOUT THE GOVERNOR AND THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING HIM, THAT WAS IN REGARD TO JUST THE NURSING HOME SCANDAL.

AND THE GENERAL CONSENSUS WAS THAT IT WAS BAD BUT MIGHT NOT BE CAREER ENDING.

THIS, NOW WE'VE HAD, AND AGAIN, WE ARE IN A POST ME TOO ERA AND HAVE HAD TWO WOMEN COME FORWARD WITH VERY TROUBLING ALLEGATIONS.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON WHAT KIND OF AN IMPACT THIS MIGHT HAVE ON GOVERNOR CUOMO?

>> WELL, LOOK.

I THINK IT CERTAINLY IS BAD.

I THINK WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT, NUMBER ONE, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT CAN BE SAID.

NO ONE IS SAYING THESE WOMEN ARE NOT CREDIBLE.

I THINK THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO SET THE STANDARD, TO SAY THAT WOMEN WHO TAKE THE STEP TO COME FORWARD AND SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE ABUSED POWER, I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY AND I THINK THAT THIS IS BEYOND CUOMO'S ABILITY TO SURVIVE.

I THINK IT IS REALLY IN MANY WAYS LESS ABOUT HIM AND MORE ABOUT US.

WHAT ARE WE AND SOCIETY GOING TO ACCEPT?

I THINK THAT IT IS VERY CLEAR TO MOST PEOPLE THAT IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAYS THAT LIES WERE TOLD TO THE PUBLIC AS IT RELATES TO THE NURSING HOMES AND IT APPEARS RIGHT NOW THAT THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF HAD EVEN ADMITTED TO THE FACT THAT SOME OF HIS ACTIVITIES OR ADVANCES MAY BE OUTSIDE THE BOUNDS OF ACCEPTABILITY.

AND SO I THINK AT SOME POINT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO HOLD LEADERS TO A CERTAIN STANDARD.

WE CAN'T BE WILLING TO TURN A BLIND EYE TO THOSE LEADERS' BAD ACTIONS SIMPLY BECAUSE WE AGREE WITH THEIR POLITICS.

I THINK IF WE ARE MOVING FORWARD, IF THERE IS SOMETHING WE'VE HAD A PROBLEM WITH IN 2020, 2021, THE MEDIA IS STILL OBSESSED WITH ALL THINGS PRESIDENT TRUMP.

BUT I THINK AGAIN IT IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO LOOK AT OURSELVES IF THE QUESTION BECOMES HOW DO PEOPLE LOOK PAST THE TRANSGRESSIONS OF SOMEBODY THAT WE FIND BEYOND THE PALE, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY AGREE WITH THEIR POLITICS, HERE IN NEW YORK IF ANDREW CUOMO SOMEHOW A WAY TO MAKE IT THROUGH THIS STORM I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION WILL BE QUITE CLEAR.

>> LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE THIS?

WE PLEASE BE THE GOVERNOR HAS ALREADY REQUESTED -- WE KNOW THE GOVERNOR HAS ALREADY REQUESTED AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO THESE ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AFTER OF COURSE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE DID ITS OWN INVESTIGATION OF THE NURSING HOME SCANDAL.

IS HE RIGHT TO CALL FOR THIS INVESTIGATION AND SORT OF GET OUT IN FRONT OF IT AND SAY I'M TRYING TO BE TRANSPARENT, ETCETERA, THOUGH WE JUST GOT A VERY DETAILED REPORT THAT INDICATES HE MAY NOT BEING AS TRANSPARENT AS HE WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO BELIEVE HE IS?

>> I THINK HE HAD LITTLE CHOICE BUT TO AGREE AFTER SOME PRESSURE TO ALLOWING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO RUN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT ALLEGATIONS.

I THINK THERE IS SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THERE WILL BE A SECOND, SEPARATE, INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION OF THE NURSING HOME ISSUE.

AS YOU MENTIONED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ALREADY HAS LOOKED INTO THAT BUT NOW A SEPARATE QUESTION, SOME OF THE TRANSPARENCY ISSUES AROUND THAT.

WHETHER THAT GETS UP AND RUNNING I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I THINK IF IT IS A MATTER OF GETTING OUT IN FRONT OF IT OR SIMPLY BENDING TO PRESSURE, THERE IS THIS DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER TO CONTINUE THE GOVERNOR'S RATHER SWEEPING, EXTRAORDINARY, EMERGENCY POWERS THAT HE HAS ADOPTED AND WAS GRANTED DURING THE COVID-19 CRISIS.

THAT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING DIRECTLY TO DO WITH THE NURSING HOMES, CERTAINLY NOT THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT SCANDAL.

BUT I THINK IT IS A REACTION GENERALLY TO A FEELING THAT THE GOVERNOR AS GENERALLY TRUE IN NEW YORK STATE HAS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF POWER AND PEOPLE WANT TO CLAW SOME OF THAT BACK.

I THINK THE WHOLE EPISODE REALLY IS I WAS THINKING ABOUT, AS I DON'T VERY OFTEN, PHILOSOPHY TODAY, AND THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER IT IS BETTER TO BE FEARED OR LOVED.

GENERALLY THE IDEA WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FEARED BUT I THINK ANDREW CUOMO IS PROVING THAT IS NOT ALWAYS TRUE.

HE IS THE GUY WHO OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE HAVE GENERALLY BEEN PRETTY AFRAID OF AND NOW PEOPLE ARE COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK BECAUSE IT IS SORT OF OPEN SEASON TO AIR QUITE A NUMBER OF LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW THEY'VE BEEN TREATED BY CUOMO OVER THE YEARS AND I GUESS THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THERE IS ANY MORE OF THAT OUT THERE.

>> THAT DEFINITELY SEEMS LIKE A POTENTIAL MAYBE NOT FOR THE GOVERNOR TO RIWRITE BUT PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE, PROFESSOR PERHAPS YOU COULD WRITE THAT BOOK ABOUT WHETHER IT IS BETTER TO BE FEARED OR LOVED AS A POLITICIAN.

WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU SERIOUSLY IS WITH ALL OF THIS COMING OUT, AND THE TABLES HAVE TURNED, WE ARE NOW IN MARCH AND A LOT OF US LIKE MYSELF, STILL LAST MARCH, AND THE GOVERNOR HAD A LOT OF PRAISE HEAPED ON HIM AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

HE WAS, QUOTE-UNQUOTE, AMERICA'S GOVERNOR.

NOW WITH ALL OF THESE ALLEGATIONS COMING OUT AND SO MUCH CRITICISM ABOUT THE WAY HE HAS HANDLED GOVERNING WHAT DO YOU THINK -- IS THIS SOMETHING ELSE THAT FURTHER ERODES THE PUBLIC TRUST, PUBLIC BELIEF IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT?

>> I THINK IT CAN'T HELP BUT DO SO.

TWO THINGS CAN BE RIGHT AT THE SAME TIME.

I THINK FROM A COMMUNICATION STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR CUOMO DID A REALLY WONDERFUL JOB AT A MOMENT WHEN THERE WAS SORT OF A VOID IN NATIONAL LEADERSHIP WITH RESPECT TO THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK LOTS OF NEW YORKERS APPRECIATED HIS PRESENCE.

IT WAS COMFORTING AND THERE WAS LOTS OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING WHEN PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR IT.

BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THESE ALLEGATIONS AND THOSE ARE SERIOUS AND EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IF YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S ON OUR AGENDA TODAY FOR METROFOCUS AND THESE ARE PERSISTENT, ONGOING PROBLEMS IN OUR DEMOCRACY.

IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT TODAY, THESE ARE NOT JOHNNY COME LATELY ISSUES.

WE'VE GOT TO FIND A WAY FROM WHETHER IT'S ISSUES OF POLICE BRUTALITY, SEXUAL HARASSMENT, YOU NAME IT, DEALING WITH THE PANDEMIC, WE'VE GOT TO FIND PROCESSES THAT ARE IN PLACE IN OUR GOVERNMENT THAT CAN ADDRESS THESE, YOU KNOW, LARGE, ENDURING PROBLEMS AND NOT JUST AT AN AD HOC LEVEL KIND OF WAY DECIDE AT THE LAST MINUTE, WELL WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

WHO GETS APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE?

WE REALLY NEED AN ONGOING, SYSTEMATIC PROCESS.

DARE I SAY LAWS AND RULES OF THE GAME THAT HELP, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO WISH TO COME FORWARD ALLEGATIONS, IN THE CASE OF GOVERNOR CUOMO, BUT ALSO FOR THOSE ACCUSED.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A PROCESS THAT WE CAN AGREE UPON THAT IS INDEPENDENT SO THAT, YOU KNOW, CITIZENS AND THOSE INVOLVED FEEL SAFE AND COMFORTABLE ABOUT THE PROCESS.

AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, BUT NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

PUBLIC TRUST IN THE GOVERNOR HAS TO BE AT AN ALL TIME LOW.

EVEN PEOPLE LIKE MY MOM WHO WERE VERY PLEASED ABOUT HIM DURING THE PANDEMIC AND, YOU KNOW, FEEL LIKE MAYBE HE'S BEEN GIVEN A BIT OF A BAD BREAK IN RECENT DAYS I THINK ARE A LITTLE BIT DISMAYED BY WHERE THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE ONCE YOU LOSE THAT PUBLIC TRUST YOU VERY RARELY IF EVER GET IT BACK.

I THINK THAT'S A LESSON AS WELL.

>> WELL, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE THE GOVERNOR'S TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THERE FOR THE MOMENT AND TURN TO ONE OF THE OTHER BIG STORIES IN NEW YORK CITY.

AND THAT OF COURSE IS THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE CHANCELLOR IS GOING TO BE STEPPING DOWN.

JOSEPH, I'D LIKE YOUR TAKE.

THE PUBLIC TRUST IN THE WAY THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN RUN AND HANDLED DURING THIS PANDEMIC HAS BEEN VERY UP AND DOWN.

AND IT SEEMS TO HAVE REALLY DEPENDED ON WHERE YOU LIVED, WHAT YOUR DISTRICT WAS, NOT YOUR DISTRICT, EXCUSE ME, WHAT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD WAS, AND THEREFORE WHAT RESOURCES YOU HAD FOR YOUR KIDS TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE ONLINE SCHOOL.

WHAT IS YOUR READ ON THIS BIG ANNOUNCEMENT?

>> I MEAN, WE HAVE AN EDUCATION CRISIS IN AMERICA, BUT THAT CRISIS MAY IN FACT BE NEW YORK CITY.

YOU CAN SAY A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT HIM.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY IT HAS BEEN AN UNMITIGATED DISASTER HIS TENURE HERE.

WHEN YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN NEW YORK CITY THAT ARE IN MANY CASES MORE SEGREGATED THAN JIM CROW, AND YET AT THE SAME TIME THERE WERE MORE CONCERNS ABOUT THE OPTICS OF OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THAN THE ACTUAL ENGAGING IN MAKING SURE WE WERE HAVING PROFICIENCY IN MATH, PROFICIENCY IN READING, MAKING SURE AS WE WENT THROUGH THIS COVID-19 CRISIS THAT WE UNDERSTOOD IMPLICITLY THAT THE CHILDREN WHO HAD THE GREATEST LEVEL OF VULNERABILITY WERE THE CHILDREN WHO WERE STRUGGLING THE MOST WITH THIS TYPE OF DISTANCE LEARNING, THAT WE NEEDED TO HAVE A PLAN TO MAKE SURE WE GOT CHILDREN BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM AS SWIFTLY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

NONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.

AND SO I THINK TO ME WHEN THE DUST HAS SETTLED WE'VE SEEN A NEW YORK CITY SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN ALL BLUSTER, VERY LITTLE SUBSTANCE, AND THE PEOPLE WHO SUFFER THE MOST ARE THESE CHILDREN WHO WILL BE DEALING WITH THIS ACADEMIC DEFICIT FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS TO COME.

AND THAT HAS -- THAT BLEEDS INTO OUR PUBLIC LIFE.

IT BLEEDS INTO THE DISPARITIES THAT WE SEE IN PROFESSIONAL OUTCOMES FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR AND I THINK ULTIMATELY WE HOPEFULLY GET TO THIS POINT RIGHT NOW WHEN WE CAN JUST START TALKING ABOUT WHAT ARE THE BEST PRACTICES FOR OUR CHILDREN, WHETHER YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA OR NEW YORK, PERIOD, AND LET'S HAVE THAT CONVERSATION INSTEAD OF HAGGLING HERE OVER THE THINGS THAT MAKE US FEEL GOOD.

WHAT REALLY LEADS TO MEANINGFUL CHANGE OUR CHILDREN DESERVE?

>> JOSEPH DOES BRING UP A GOOD POINT.

THAT WAS STEPPING INTO THIS ROLE AS SCHOOL CHANCELLOR IN NEW YORK CITY WAS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT, PERIOD.

THIS PANDEMIC SEEMS TO HAVE MADE IT BORDERLINE IMPOSSIBLE.

YOUR TAKE ON CARRANZA JUST SAYING, I'M OUT?

>> APPARENTLY IT IS A COMBINATION FOR HIM OF CLASHES WITH DE BLASIO OVER DESEGREGATION.

HE WANTED TO GO FURTHER AND THE MAYOR NOT SO MUCH AND A LOT OF PERSONAL IMPACT FROM COVID LOSING FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS HAVING AN UNDERSTANDABLE EMOTIONAL IMPACT.

I THINK ONE THING THAT WILL BE INTERESTING 10 OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW WHEN WE ARE LOOKING BACK IS HOW CARRANZA AND DE BLASIO'S WORK ON THE SCHOOLS WILL BE VIEWED.

IN THE PRESENT DAY IT SEEMS A SHAMBLES AND FITS AND STARTS AND MIXED MESSAGES AND DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES AS YOU MENTION, TEACHERS UNION PULLING ONE WAY, MANY PARENTS ASKING DESPERATELY FOR THE RESUMPTION OF SCHOOLS.

DE BLASIO DID STICK TO HIS GUNS AND GET SCHOOL UP AND RUNNING IN THE FALL.

IT WAS CONTROVERSIAL AND SHAKY.

THEY HAD TO BE SHUT DOWN AGAIN AND RESUMED.

I WONDER FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A FEW YEARS THE FACT THE CITY'S VERY LARGE SYSTEM DID GET UP AND RUNNING FASTER THAN A LOT OF OTHER SCHOOL SYSTEMS HAVE EVEN CONSIDERED DOING THAT WHETHER THAT WILL BE SEEN AS SOMETHING OF AN ACHIEVEMENT AND FOR ALL ITS FLAWS AND WARTS WHETHER CARRANZA WILL BE GIVEN SOME CREDIT FOR THAT.

THE QUESTION NOW IS WE HAVE THE REST OF THE SCHOOL YEAR AHEAD OF US, A WHOLE SCHOOL YEAR IN THE FALL COMING UP WITH COVID STILL VERY MUCH A FACTOR AMONG SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT JOSEPH HAS REFERRED TO, YOU KNOW, WILL THIS NEW CHANCELLOR BE CAPABLE OF GRASPING THIS AND STEERING THIS FOR THE REMAINDER OF DE BLASIO'S TERM?

IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO GO THROUGH A FEW CHANCELLORS.

THIS WILL BE HIS THIRD.

COMING IN THE MIDST OF A CRISIS LIKE THIS DOES RAISE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT BASIC CONTINUITY.

>> OF COURSE.

AGAIN, ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC BUT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

PROFESSOR, THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE NOW OF COURSE NEW YORK ALREADY IF YOU WILL HANDLED BUSINESS ON THAT ISSUE.

BUT IT WAS PULLED FROM THE MASSIVE CORONA STIMULUS RELIEF PACKAGE THAT A LOT OF PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS, EVEN SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS IN THE SENATE WAS REALLY, REALLY PUSHING FOR.

FIRST OF ALL, JUST YOUR TAKE ON THE FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT THAT IS TOO MUCH VERSUS JUST NOT IN THIS PACKAGE.

IT CAN HAPPEN BUT IT CAN'T HAPPEN NOW.

ARE YOU AT ALL CONCERNED THAT PERHAPS THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT HAS LOST POLITICAL MOMENTUM TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THIS DONE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL?

>> WELL, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT PER SE.

I CARE ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVING A LIVING WAGE.

YOU KNOW, JUST AS SOMEONE WHO HAS OBSERVED SORT OF THE POLITICAL ECONOMY OF THE UNITED STATES OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS AND SEEN HOW WORKING FAMILIES KEEP GETTING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK IF YOU WILL AND CERTAINLY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO KEEP UP, WAGES HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH INFLATION AND PRODUCTIVITY AND WEALTH HAS FRANKLY BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO THE UPPER CLASS.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS CLASS WARFARE.

IT IS JUST THE REALITY OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

PEOPLE FEEL IT.

LEAVING IDEOLOGY OUT OF IT, I HAVE MY OWN VIEWS, ON SOME LEVEL WHO CARES, YOU KNOW?

$15 MINIMUM WAGE IS REALLY BARELY WHAT IS NECESSARY TO LIVE.

AND SPEAKING AS PEOPLE WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH LIVING IN NEW YORK, MY GOODNESS.

YES.

NEW YORK HANDLED ITS BUSINESS.

YOU KNOW, LOTS OF PLACES IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE $15 MINIMUM WAGE IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BARELY EXISTING.

WILL THERE BE ENOUGH SUPPORT DOWN THE ROAD IF THE RULES ARE HELD TO AS THE SENATE HAS DECIDED?

THE FINDING IS APPARENTLY THIS IS OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN THIS KIND OF BILL.

WILL THERE BE FUTURE VOTES AVAILABLE FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN?

PERHAPS.

CERTAINLY HE CAMPAIGNED ON IT.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO NOT GO BACK ON HIS PROMISE OF REPRESENTING WORKING CLASS AMERICANS.

I THINK IT CERTAINLY IS CRITICAL FOR HIM TO DO SO.

AS AN ISSUE THAT HE'S BECOME IDENTIFIED WITH.

SO I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE MIDST OF THE WORST ECONOMIC CRISIS IN ANYONE'S MEMORY, THE INABILITY TO PUT FORTH A MEASURE THAT COULD GUARANTEE $15 MINIMUM WAGE AT THIS TIME I THINK IS MOST UNFORTUNATE TO WORKING FAMILIES WHO MAY HAVE LOOKED WITH SOME HOPE FOR ADDITIONAL HELP ALONG WITH THE 1$1.9 TRILLION PACKAGE CURRENTLY PASSED IN THE HOUSE.

WE'LL SEE.

I THINK IT IS A BLOW TO WORKING FAMILIES.

WHETHER THEY SUPPORT PROGRESSIVE POLICIES OR OTHERWISE.

IT HURTS.

>> JOSEPH, YOUR TAKE?

I MEAN, IS THIS NECESSARILY THIS INCREASE FOR MINIMUM WAGE DEAD ON ARRIVAL NOW ON A NATIONAL LEVEL?

ONE OF THE CRITICISMS THAT PEOPLE HAD AGAINST $15 AN HOUR IS IT WOULD CAUSE MASSIVE INFLATION AND THE COST OF EVERYTHING WOULD GO UP.

NEW YORK CITY ALREADY HAS A $15 -- EXCUSE ME NOT NEW YORK CITY.

NEW YORK STATE.

ALTHOUGH IT VARIES REGION TO REGION IN THE STATE BUT ALREADY IMPLEMENTED $15 MINIMUM WAGE.

AND IT'S DEBATABLE ABOUT PERHAPS WHAT THE IMPACT OF THAT INCREASE WAS.

BUT $15 IN NEW YORK WHILE STILL NOT A LOT IS NOT NECESSARILY $15 IN WEST VIRGINIA.

SO SHOULD THIS BE A REGION BY REGION DECISION?

>> LOOK, I THINK LET'S BE VERY CLEAR.

NUMBER ONE THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE IS TOO LOW.

EVEN IF -- THERE ARE A LOT OF MEASURES TO JUDGE IT BUT EVEN IF YOU ADJUSTED IT FOR INFLATION WE SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE PROBABLY AROUND 12 OR $13.

I THINK WE CAN JUST START THERE BY SAYING IT IS VERY CLEAR THE WORKING POOR IN AMERICA HAVE LONG GOTTEN THE SHORTENED OF THE STICK.

I THINK MUCH OF THE PROTESTATIONS ON THE RIGHT DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.

HAVING SAID THAT, A $15 MINIMUM WAGE TO YOUR POINT IS VERY DIFFERENT IN NEW YORK CITY OR MIAMI VERSUS SOME PLACE LIKE IN THE HILLS OF WEST VIRGINIA OR A PLACE LIKE BANKS, OREGON.

THERE ARE JUST DIFFERENT NEEDS AND DIFFERENT FINANCIAL INCENTIVES.

SO I THINK ULTIMATELY WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN THE AMERICAN ECONOMY, WHEN YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BUSINESSES WHO HAVE CLOSED THEIR DOORS FOREVER, WHEN YOU HAVE THIS LARGE, ALREADY WE'RE SEEING INFLATIONARY PRESSURES CREEPING THEIR HEAD UP IN THE ECONOMY, IT DID NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.

AND ACTUALLY IN MANY WAYS WOULD HAVE HAD A DISASTROUS IMPACT ON THE VERY PEOPLE WE WERE TRYING TO HELP TO TRY TO RAM THROUGH A $15 MINIMUM WAGE AT THIS TIME.

I THINK, ALSO, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE THIS $15 MINIMUM WAGE, WHICH IS UNTETHERED TO THE TYPE OF MEANS TESTING WE NEED TO PROBABLY DO ACROSS THE COUNTRY, UNDERMINES OUR ABILITY TO ACHIEVE WHAT OUR FIRST PRIORITY SHOULD BE, WHICH IS TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING THE WAGE IS MUCH TOO LOW.

SO I THINK TO ME THAT IS THE ULTIMATE THING WE HAVE TO AGREE HERE.

I THINK THERE CAN BE A LOT OF BIPARTISAN BUY-IN TO THE NOTION THAT THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE UP THE BACK BONE OF AMERICAN SOCIETY, THOSE PEOPLE ON MAIN STREET, HAVE BEEN TREATED POORLY.

THERE CAN BE BIPARTISAN BUY-IN TO THAT I THINK IF DEMOCRATS STOP STANDING ON IDEOLOGY AND STARTED LEANING INTO JUST THIS BASIC NOTION OF FAIRNESS AND ALSO TETHERED THAT TO THE FINANCIAL REALITY SUCH AS THE INFLATIONARY CONCERNS AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT AGAIN AT THIS JUNCTURE WHEN BUSINESSES ARE HOLDING ON BY A THREAD THOSE RESTAURANTS, THOSE BARS, THOSE EVERY DAY WORKING PEOPLE JOBS, THAT THIS WAS NOT THE TIME TO REACH PERHAPS SO FAR.

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE THAT THERE.

I DO WANT TO TURN TO THE CASE OF DANIEL PRUDE, OF COURSE, AFTER THE SUMMER OF 2020 WE SAW A LOT OF NATIONAL MOMENTUM BEHIND THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT ESPECIALLY WHEN IT CAME TO THE INTERACTIONS OF UNARMED BLACK MEN AND POLICE OFFICERS.

A GRAND JURY HAS DECIDED NOT TO INDICT ANY OF THE POLICE OFFICERS IN CONNECTION WITH PRUDE'S DEATH, AND JUST FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, IN TERMS OF THE ONGOING TENSION BETWEEN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CHARGED WITH POLICING THOSE COMMUNITIES, DOES THIS EXACERBATE A PROBLEM THAT WE CLEARLY WAS LAID BARE OVER THE SUMMER IS AT A CRISIS POINT?

>> I THINK IT DOES.

I THINK IT WAS THE "NEW YORK TIMES" POINTE OUT AFTER THIS PRUDE DECISION THAT IT WAS MORE THAN FIVE YEARS AGO THE GOVERNOR GAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE RIGHT TO INVESTIGATE THESE CASES OF KILLINGS INVOLVING THE POLICE AND SINCE THEN HAVE BEEN 43 CASES OF THAT NATURE AND NOT A SINGLE CONVICTION, YOU KNOW, IN SOME CASES THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INDICTMENTS BUT NO CONVICTIONS YET.

THE INDIVIDUAL DETAILS OF THE PRUDE CASE OBVIOUSLY ARE HORRIFYING AND WE COULD GO INTO THOSE BUT A LARGER QUESTION IS WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS WHAT DOES IT DO TO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT POLICING?

WHICH IN NEW YORK CITY IS VERY MUCH BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO ARE ARGUING FOR INCREMENTAL REFORMS AND THOSE WHO WANT TO ABOLISH OR TOTALLY REWRITE HOW POLICING IS DONE.

I THINK IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT DEFENDING SOME FORM OF POLICING AS WE KNOW IT WHEN THESE SAFETY VALVES AND MECHANISMS LIKE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S INVESTIGATIVE POWERS DON'T SEEM TO RESULT IN A SIGNIFICANT ACTION OR REAL JUSTICE IN CASES LIKE THIS.

SO THAT IS NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE TRAGEDY OF THE PRUDE CASE IN ITSELF BUT THE LARGER CONTEXT IS IT LEAVES UNANSWERED THIS QUESTION OF IS THERE A WAY TO KEEP POLICE ACCOUNTABLE GIVEN THE DEFERENCE AFFORDED THEM IN A LEGAL SYSTEM THAT IS OBVIOUSLY STILL AN OPEN QUESTION AFTER THIS GRAND JURY DECISION.

>> PROFESSOR, WE'RE COMING UP ON THE END OF OUR TIME, ABOUT 40 SECONDS LEFT.

IS THERE A WAY TO HOLD POLICE ACCOUNTABLE, GIVEN AS YOU'VE JUST SAID THE DEFERENCE THEY ARE GIVEN?

>> YEAH.

IT IS NOT A CASE OF A FEW BAD APPLES.

THE BASKET IS THE PROBLEM.

THE BASKET THAT THE APPLES ARE IN.

IT'S A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM.

WE ARE THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THE KNAPP COMMISSION THAT PRODUCED FRANK SERPICO IN NEW YORK WHO REVEALED POLICE CORRUPTION AND 50 YEARS LATER WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH THIS.

IT TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE SYSTEM.

LET'S FORGET THE APPLES AND CONVERSATIONS ABOUT GOOD COPS BAD COPS.

SOMETHING IS ROTTEN WITH THE SYSTEM AND THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

WE HAVE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF TIME.

PROFESSOR, AND THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BY CHERYL AND PHILIP MILLSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.