>>> TONIGHT.

CALLING OUT PUTIN'S WAR CRIMES IN UKRAINE.

NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN ADRIANO ESPAILLAT SHARES WHAT CONGRESS IS DOING TO HOLD CONGRESS ACCOUNTABLE.

>>> PLUS CONFRONTING RACIAL BIAS IN THE MEDIA'S COVERAGE OF UKRAINE.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- ♪ >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

OVER 2 MILLION UKRAINIANS HAVE FLED THE COUNTRY AFTER VLADIMIR PUTIN'S INVASION OF THEIR HOMELAND.

THEY'RE NOT JUST FLEEING THE SITE OF A STANDARD MILITARY OPERATION, BUT ONE IN WHICH WAR CRIMES ARE BEING COMMITTED AGAINST CIVILIANS.

ONE OF NEW YORK'S CONGRESS MEN, REPRESENTATIVE ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, HAS PUT FORWARD TWO CRUCIAL BILLS TO HELP THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE.

ONE TO CALL OUT THESE WAR CRIMES AND ANOTHER TO ASSIST REFUGEES.

NOW, AS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE, CONGRESSMAN ESPAILLAT HAS ALSO TAKEN PART IN THE CONGRESSIONAL DEBATE OVER FUNDING FOR UKRAINE.

AND HE JOINS US NOW TO DISCUSS THE ONGOING CRISIS AND WHAT CONGRESS IS DOING TO HELP.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," CONGRESSMAN ESPAILLAT.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.

AND I'M GLAD TO BE DISCUSSING IT WITH YOU TODAY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, FIRST BRING US UP TO SPEED, AS WHAT WE UNDERSTAND ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE GROUND, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO CRIMES HAPPENING AGAINST CIVILIANS.

>> WELL, CLEARLY AS THE PUTIN WAR CONTINUES TO PROGRESS AND AS RUSSIAN TROOPS CONTINUE TO TRY TO ENCIRCLE KEY CITIES LIKE KYIV, THERE IS A DELIBERATE MODE OF OPERATION WHICH IS TO ATTACK CIVILIAN SITES.

AND THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

WE'VE SEEN THIS MODEL OF WARFARE PERPETRATED BY THE RUSSIANS IN SYRIA, IN CHECHNYA, WHERE THEY JUST BASICALLY POUND ON CIVILIAN SITES, CITIES, AND THEY TRY TO BRING THEM TO THEIR KNEES.

AND OF COURSE WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THERE'S TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF HUMAN LOSS.

LIVES ARE LOST.

IT UNLEASHES A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

OVER 2 MILLION PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOW FLED UKRAINE TO BORDERING COUNTRIES, INCLUDING OF COURSE MANY WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND SENIORS.

AND WE SEE HOW EVEN THE PATHWAYS THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR SAFETY OR EXIT ARE EVEN USED AT TIMES TO TARGET CIVILIANS TRYING TO GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

SO CLEARLY THIS IS AN EFFORT BY PUTIN AND HIS ARMY, AND I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THEY HAVE ENGAGED IN WAR CRIMES.

AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, HE MAY BE FACING A TRIBUNAL.

>> EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE LAID OUT IS INCREDIBLY HEARTBREAKING AND TERRIBLE TO HEAR THAT'S HAPPENING.

HOWEVER, AT THE SAME TIME WE DO KNOW THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS ANNOUNCED BANNING THE IMPORTATION OF ALL RUSSIAN OIL AND NATURAL GAS.

AND AS A RESULT, ONE OF THE REASONS IS THAT A LOT OF AMERICANS ARE SEEING SHARP, LARGE INCREASES FOR THINGS LIKE NATURAL GAS AND GASOLINE AT THE GAS PUMP.

SO WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE WONDERING IF THIS IS TOO HIGH A COST TO PAY AT A TIME WHEN AMERICANS ARE ALREADY STRUGGLING WITH INFLATION AND OF COURSE WAGES FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS HAVEN'T GONE UP.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE AT A STAGE IN OUR HISTORY THAT WE ARE PRODUCING PERHAPS MORE BARRELS OF OIL THAN EVER BEFORE, AS WELL AS NATURAL GAS.

AND SO IT'S NOT LIKE THE UNITED STATES HAS FALLEN BACK IN ITS PRODUCTIVITY.

HOWEVER, WE DO PURCHASE SOME OIL FROM RUSSIA.

AND THIS IS CONTRADICTORY TO OUR SANCTIONS.

SO WE CANNOT SANCTION THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY, WE CANNOT CLOSE S.W.I.F.T.

ACCESS TO BANKS, WE CANNOT ASK MAJOR U.S. COMPANIES TO PULL OUT OF RUSSIA AND AT THE SAME TIME CONTINUE TO FEED THE PUTIN WAR MACHINE.

SO YES, IN MANY WAYS DEMOCRACY HAS A COST, A PRICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A CRITICAL TIME IN HISTORY WHERE WE'VE SEEN A WAR, AN UNPRECEDENTED WAR WAGED AGAINST UKRAINIANS, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, AS I SAID BEFORE, OVER 104,000 UKRAINIAN NONCITIZENS ARE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THEY WILL BE SUBJECT TO TPS, OVER 2,000 STUDENTS, THEY WILL BE SUBJECT TO SOME KIND OF RELIEF.

BUT YOU HAVE OVER 2 MILLION UKRAINIANS FLEEING THE COUNTRY.

AND YOU HAVE CLEARLY A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF DEATHS, CHILDREN AND WOMEN FACING VERY ADVERSE CONDITIONS, INHUMANE CONDITIONS PERPETRATED BY THIS ASSAULT.

AND THE WORST MAY BE AHEAD OF US, AS HE CIRCLES KYIV.

I THINK HE'S GETTING READY TO SLAUGHTER THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

THIS IS REALLY A WAR OF HUMONGOUS COST, HUMAN COST TO THE UKRAINIANS WHO ARE FIGHTING VALIANTLY FOR THEIR COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.

AND SO YES, THERE IS A COST TO DEMOCRACY.

AND, YOU KNOW, JUST READ BACK A FEW CHAPTERS, DURING WORLD WAR II, HOW CHURCHILL AND ENGLAND, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THEY STOOD UP TO A DICTATOR.

WE MUST STAND UP TO THIS GUY.

AND I SUPPORT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S EFFORTS.

>> AND WHILE I DO THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HEAR AND UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I DO JUST WANT TO DRILL DOWN ON THIS POINT A LITTLE BIT.

ONE OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS, LET'S SAY, THEY'RE GETTING SQUEEZED, THEY'VE SEEN PERHAPS THEIR RENT INCREASE, THEIR SALARY HASN'T INCREASED, THEY'RE PAYING MUCH MORE FOR THEIR ENERGY RIGHT NOW.

AND THIS CAN FEEL AS IF, WAIT A SECOND, WE'RE STRUGGLING HERE TOO.

I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT CONSTITUENT WHO IS WONDERING WHY SO MUCH ENERGY IS GOING OVERSEAS WHEN THERE'S SUCH A CRISIS HERE AT HOME.

>> THIS IS A CRISIS THAT IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THAT REGION OF THE WORLD.

THIS REALLY HAS AN IMPACT ON ALL OF US, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

NOW, WHAT I WILL SAY TO THAT PERSON, MY CONSTITUENT, IS LOOK, WE JUST WENT THROUGH A PANDEMIC.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUT OUT LOTS OF HELP.

WE'RE STILL FIGHTING TO BRING EVEN MORE HELP TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

WE WERE THERE FOR THE MEDICAL AND HEALTH INSTITUTIONS WHEN THE PANDEMIC WAS REALLY HITTING HOME.

WE WERE THERE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

WE WERE THERE TO REOPEN SCHOOLS SAFELY.

WE WERE THERE FOR PEOPLE THAT WERE UNEMPLOYED WITH UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

WE WERE THERE WITH THE STIMULUS CHECK.

WE'RE HERE NOW AGAIN WITH THE CHILD TAX CREDIT FOR WOMEN AND FAMILIES THAT HAVE CHILDREN UNDER 17 YEARS OLD.

WE'VE DONE SO MUCH.

WE'VE GIVEN SO MUCH.

BUT THIS IS A CRISIS THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED.

THE PANDEMIC, AND NOW THIS POLITICAL CRISIS IN THE UKRAINE, THAT PART OF THE WORLD, THAT PUTS EUROPE IN PERIL.

AND SO IF EUROPE IS IN DANGER, WE ARE IN DANGER, BECAUSE OUR ECONOMIES ARE PRETTY MUCH JOINED AT THE HIP.

AND SO THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT SOME FARAWAY PLACE ON THE PLANET THAT WE HAVE NO DIRECT CONNECTIONS WITH.

THIS IS VERY MUCH ABOUT HOME AS WELL.

>> SPEAKING OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE AT HOME, I UNDERSTAND THAT CONGRESS JUST AGREED TO $13.6 BILLION IN AID TO UKRAINE.

AS A MEMBER OF THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE, I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS.

CAN YOU BREAK DOWN WHERE THIS MONEY IS COMING FROM AND HOW IT'S AT LEAST INTENDED TO BE USED?

>> OF COURSE.

THERE WILL BE A LEVEL OF HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE DISPLACED WITH MORE THAN $4 BILLION GOING IN THAT DIRECTION.

FOR EXAMPLE, $2.6 BILLION WILL GO TO USAID.

$1.4 BILLION WILL GO TO THE MIGRATION AND REFUGEE ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

THERE WILL BE A DEFENSE COMPONENT TO IT, MORE THAN $3 BILLION WILL GO TO THE EUROPEAN COMMAND FOR OPERATIONS.

THERE'S ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE AS WELL, $1.8 BILLION GOING DIRECTLY FOR MACROECONOMIC NEEDS OF THE UKRAINE.

AND THEN THERE IS A COMPONENT OF SANCTIONS ENFORCEMENT THAT I THINK IS ALSO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO BE APPLIED.

SO THESE ARE THE FOUR PILLARS OF THAT INITIATIVE WHICH, AS YOU WELL SAID, WAS $13.6 BILLION IN EMERGENCY FUNDING TO THE UKRAINE.

HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE, DEFENSE ASSISTANCE, ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE, AND SANCTIONS ENFORCEMENT.

>> OKAY.

WELL, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS IS, I KNOW THAT YOU WERE A SPONSOR OF THE BILL CALLED THE UKRAINIAN PROTECTION ACT.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT ENTAILS AND DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO GO FAR ENOUGH?

>> OF COURSE.

YE YES, I THINK WE NEED TO PROTECT THE UKRAINE IN WHICHEVER WAY WE CAN.

WE'RE NOT ENGAGING MILITARILY.

I THINK EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO APPETITE IN THE COUNTRY TO ENGAGE MILITARILY AND TO PUT OUR FORCES, OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN THE ARMED FORCES, AT PERIL AND DANGER.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST CAME OUT OF A LONG WAR IN AFGHANISTAN.

THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO ENGAGE IN A NEW ONE.

AND I THINK FRANKLY THERE'S A CRITICAL BALANCE THAT MUST BE PRESERVED, BECAUSE WE'RE DEALING WITH A PERSON THAT MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE PRUDENT IN HIS WAY OF PROCEEDING IN THE REGION.

SO WE MUST BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT HOW WE PROCEED.

AND THIS LEGISLATION I THINK PROVIDES THE RIGHT KIND OF BALANCE FOR THE UKRAINE.

SO FOR NOW I THINK IT'S ENOUGH BUT I THINK IN THE FUTURE WE MUST DO MORE.

>> SPEAKING OF DOING MORE, CONGRESSMAN, AND WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, I'M JUST WONDERING, BETWEEN THE SANCTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPOSED AND THE SUPPORT THAT THE U.S. IS GOING TO BE PROVIDING, HOW QUICKLY DO YOU THINK THOSE -- THE EFFECTS OF BOTH OF THOSE ACTIONS WILL TAKE TO BE FELT?

>> I THINK THEY'RE FEELING THEM RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT WE'RE NOT PURCHASING OIL, THERE'S DEEP SANCTIONS IN THE BANKING SYSTEM, THAT MAJOR, MAJOR COMPANIES ARE PULLING OUT OF RUSSIA, THAT THE EUROPEAN PARTNERS ARE ALSO ENGAGED IN THIS, I THINK AS A MAJOR HIT AGAINST THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY.

AND THEY'RE FEELING IT RIGHT NOW, AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

AND IT WILL HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT ON THEIR ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD MILITARILY.

SO I THINK IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE.

IT SHOULD BE LONG TERM, NOT JUST A SHORT TERM EFFORT.

YOU MUST LOOK AT IT FROM A LONG TERM PERSPECTIVE.

I THINK IT WILL HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON THE FUTURE OF RUSSIA.

>> ALL RIGHT, CONGRESSMAN ESPAILLAT, I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO JOIN US ON "METROFOCUS" AND GIVE US A BETTER UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE SUPPORT THE U.S. IS WORKING TO PROVIDE TO THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

AS THE WAR IN UKRAINE INTENSIFIES, WE'RE SEEING ANOTHER TROUBLING STORY LINE EMERGE RELATED TO HOW THE MEDIA IS COVERING THE CONFLICT.

SEVERAL CORRESPONDENTS AND INTERVIEWS HAVE REPORTEDLY FRAMED SUFFERING AND DISPLACEMENT AS NORMAL FOR PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST BUT NOT IN EUROPE WHERE PEOPLE ARE, AND I AM QUOTING HERE, CIVILIZED, HAVE BLUE EYES AND BLOND HAIR, AND LOOK LIKE US, UNQUOTE, DEPENDING OF COURSE ON WHO THAT JOURNALIST IS.

OBSERVERS ALSO SAY THEY FOUND MANY EXAMPLES OF RACIAL BIAS AND ALSO EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THE LACK OF COVERAGE OF OTHER CONFLICTS.

OUR NEXT GUEST TONIGHT IS HELPING DRAW ATTENTION TO THOSE ISSUES AND THE GLOBAL CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON'T GET THIS RIGHT.

I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM MOUSTAFA BAYOUMI, A COLUMNIST FOR "THE GUARDIAN," PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH AT BROOKLYN COLLEGE, AND THE AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR OF "THIS MUSLIM AMERICAN LIFE: DISPATCHES FROM THE WAR ON TERROR."

PROFESSOR BAYOUMI, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU, SUCH AN HONOR TO BE HERE.

>> AS YOU HEARD IN MY INTERVIEW, I STARTED OFF WITH THINGS THAT VIEWERS OR OTHER JOURNALISTS OF COLOR WERE VERY QUICKLY PICKING UP ON.

I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON HOW YOU SAW THE INITIAL REPORTING AROUND THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAPPENING.

WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION IN TERMS OF MEDIA BIAS?

>> SURE.

I MEAN, I THINK FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, THE COVERAGE WAS EXTREMELY SYMPATHETIC TO THE REFUGEE FLOWS, AS IT SHOULD BE.

I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GOING ON IN UKRAINE IS TERRIBLE, AND THERE IS THIS RUSSIAN AGGRESSION THAT HAS CAUSED THIS MASSIVE FLOW OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING REFUGE.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY PLACE WHERE IT'S HAPPENING.

IT'S BEEN HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WORLD.

AND THE KINDS OF LANGUAGE THAT WE SAW DESCRIBING THE REFUGEE FLOWS IN THE SITUATION WHERE GENERALLY MUCH MORE SYMPATHETIC, MUCH MORE FEELINGS OF CAMARADERIE AND UNDERSTANDING, LESS TINGED BY FEAR AND CONCERN ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BORDER REGULATIONS AND ALL OF THOSE SORT OF THINGS.

SO I THINK FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, WE STARTED TO SEE THAT THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE, A REAL DIFFERENCE IN HOW THIS CONFLICT WAS BEING COVERED.

>> SO WHAT DID THAT COMMUNICATE TO YOU?

BECAUSE SINCE THEN, WE HAVE SEEN EITHER COMEDIANS, SPECIFICALLY LATE NIGHT COMEDIANS, OR OTHER JOURNALISTS OF COLOR POINT OUT THE BIAS, THE IMPLICIT BIAS THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA WERE SHOWING.

WHAT YOU WERE HEARING AND SEEING, WHAT DID THAT COMMUNICATE TO YOU?

>> WELL, IT REALLY COMMUNICATED THAT THE SUFFERING OF PEOPLE FROM EUROPE IS UNDERSTOOD AND IMMEDIATELY EMBRACED, SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE UNDERSTANDABLE, WHILE THE SUFFERING OF PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE OF EUROPE IS SEEN AS A NORMAL CONDITION OF THEIR EXISTENCE.

IN OTHER WORDS, THAT WAR -- IT'S ALMOST AS IF THEY'RE SAYING WAR IS A NATURAL CONDITION FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE OUTSIDE OF EUROPE, WHEREAS PEOPLE WHO LIVE INSIDE OF EUROPE ARE NATURALLY GRAVITATING TOWARDS PEACE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN EXTREMELY TROUBLING, ALMOST 19th CENTURY KIND OF NOTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK FROM THE BEGINNING, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS OF GREAT CONCERN TO ME.

AND AS YOU SAY, NOT ONLY TO ME.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE PICKING UP ON IT.

AND MANY PEOPLE, MANY MEMBERS IN THE MEDIA WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SUCH STATEMENTS HAD TO BACKTRACK RESPONSIBLY AND APOLOGIZE FOR THEIR STATEMENTS OR AT LEAST EXPLAIN.

>> WE ARE SEEING IN ADDITION TO SOME OF THE STATEMENTS WE'VE POINTED OUT, WE'RE ALSO SEEING JUST COMMUNITY REACTIONS, THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING FEEL DIFFERENT, THAT THERE'S BEEN AN OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT FOR THE NEARLY 2 MILLION REFUGEES FROM UKRAINE AS OPPOSED TO THE REACTIONS THAT WE'VE SEEN TO PEOPLE WHO WERE REFUGEES FROM PERHAPS THE MIDDLE EAST OR AFRICA, PARTS OF SOUTH AMERICA, ET CETERA.

SO I'M WONDERING, AGAIN, WHAT IS THAT TELLING YOU ABOUT THE WAY THAT WE ENGAGE?

AND I DO WANT TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WHILE CRITICIZING THAT THE RESPONSE TO UKRAINIAN REFUGEES SHOULD BE THE RESPONSE.

>> WELL, IT SHOULD BE THE RESPONSE FOR ALL REFUGEES.

IT'S AN UNDERSTANDING, THERE IS AN ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S THE CAUSE OF THEIR SITUATION.

THERE'S AN ATTEMPT TO EMPATHIZE WITH THEIR FLIGHT.

JUST AS THAT SHOULD BE THE CASE FOR, SAY, THE REFUGEES WHO ARE AMASSED AT OUR SOUTHERN BORDER, IN FACT.

THERE IS A REPORT TODAY IN "THE GUARDIAN" ABOUT HOW THERE ARE SO MANY ACTUALLY THERE JUST WAITING TO HAVE THEIR ASYLUM CLAIMS HEARD AND NOT BEING ALLOWED OVER THE BORDER.

OR, YOU KNOW, TAKE BACK IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR, THE BELARUS PRESIDENT LUKASHENKO, WAS PLAYING POLITICS WITH REFUGEES INSTEAD OF BEING SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR FLIGHT.

HE WAS ENCOURAGING THEM TO COME TO BELARUS, PROMISING THEM ENTRY INTO THE EUROPEAN UNION THROUGH POLAND.

POLAND WOULDN'T LET THEM IN.

AND IMMEDIATELY THEY WERE ENTERED INTO A NO MAN'S LAND THAT'S EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

SEVERAL HAVE DIED AND THERE IS CURRENTLY AN ENCAMPMENT THAT REPRESENTS THE HORRIBLE SITUATION THAT THEY ARE LIVING THROUGH.

SO I THINK REALLY WHAT WE NEED IS A GREAT DEAL OF EMPATHY FOR ALL REFUGEES.

IT'S NOT THAT WE SHOULD TREAT -- IT'S NOT THAT THE UKRAINIAN SITUATION IS GETTING BETTER TREATMENT, THEREFORE THAT DENIES THEIR SITUATION.

IN FACT WHAT IT IS IS THAT WE SHOULD ALL HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF CARE AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING AFFORDED TO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE FLEEING CONFLICT IN UKRAINE.

>> OF COURSE.

WHY IS IT DO YOU THINK AT LEAST THAT THE SAME KIND OF UNDERSTANDING AROUND CONFLICTS WHEN THEY COME FROM THE MIDDLE EAST OR FROM AFRICA OR SOUTH AMERICA OR PARTS OF ASIA, IT SEEMS THERE'S A MUCH CLEARER UNDERSTANDING OF THIS CONFLICT ON BEHALF OF A LOT OF PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO OTHER CONFLICTS WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER THINGS TO UNDERSTAND, THERE'S PHRASES LIKE SECTARIAN VIOLENCE AND DIFFERENT CULTURES THAT PEOPLE FEEL LIKE ARE VERY DISTANT AND THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND, ET CETERA.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU FEEL LIKE THAT MIGHT ALSO BE PLAYING A FACTOR.

>> I DO THINK THAT'S THE CASE.

WHAT WE'RE WITNESSING ESSENTIALLY IS A KIND OF DOUBLE STANDARD, RIGHT?

WHEN IT COMES TO THE CONFLICT IN UKRAINE, COVERAGE OF THE CONFLICT, PEOPLE'S ATTEMPTS TO UNDERSTAND THE CONFLICT ARE GIVEN A KIND OF COMPLEXITY AND GIVEN A KIND OF HISTORY THAT WE IMMEDIATELY TEND TO COMPREHEND, WHEREAS WHEN CONFLICTS EMERGE FROM OUTSIDE EUROPE, THEY ARE OFTEN JUST SAID TO BE ANCIENT HATREDS OR MOTIVATED BY, AS YOU SAY, SECTARIAN CONFLICT OR OTHER KINDS OF ALMOST MORE BASE CONFLICTS RATHER THAN SOMETHING THAT'S GEOPOLITICAL THAT'S AT STAKE.

THIS GOES BACK TO ESSENTIALLY TWO DIFFERENT NARRATIVES COMBINING TOGETHER HERE.

WE HAVE AN OLD COLONIAL NARRATIVE WHICH SEES EUROPE AS A PLACE OF CIVILIZATION, THE REST OF THE WORLD AS BARBARISM.

THAT NARRATIVE GETS BANDIED ABOUT QUITE EASILY THESE DAYS.

THE OTHER ONE IS OF COURSE AN OLD COLD WAR NARRATIVE.

IT'S MUCH EASIER TO SEE THIS NARRATIVE WITHIN ONE WE LEFT BEHIND NOT VERY LONG AGO.

AND IN FACT, I THINK THAT THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THE COLD WAR NARRATIVE THAT STILL PERSIST EVEN IN THE SYMPATHETIC COVERAGE.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN SOME OF THE MEDIA COMMENTATORS ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CIVILIZED ASPECT OF THE UKRAINIAN REFUGEES, THEY TALK ABOUT THEM AS BEING RELATIVELY CIVILIZED, THAT'S WHAT THE CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT SAID, HE USED THE TERM "RELATIVELY CIVILIZED" AND APOLOGIZED FOR IT LATER.

THAT "RELATIVELY CIVILIZED" REPRESENTS AN OLD, ANTI-SLAVIC PERSPECTIVE THAT ALSO ILLUSTRATES THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN EAST EUROPEAN SOCIETIES AND WESTERN EUROPEAN SOCIETIES.

SO WE'RE SEEING ALL OF THESE NARRATIVES PILING UP ONE ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

>> SO WHEN COVERING A CONFLICT, HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, BECAUSE OF COURSE THE JOB OF A JOURNALIST IS TO INFORM PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, FREQUENTLY WE'VE BEEN -- PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REMINDED THAT JOURNALISTS ARE HUMAN AND DO BRING THEIR HUMANITY TO THEIR JOBS.

IS THERE, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, A BETTER WAY TO PERHAPS FRAME A SITUATION SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS THAT ARE BEING MADE THAT THEN HAVE TO BE WALKED BACK OR IS THAT JUST INEVITABLE AS PART OF THE HUMAN CONDITION?

>> WELL, IT MIGHT BE PARTLY INEVITABLE.

BUT IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE SPEED OF THE NEWS CYCLE, AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY AND MAKE MISTAKES, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT PEOPLE DO MAKE MISTAKES SOMETIMES TOO.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THERE IS TWO THINGS THAT WE COULD BE VERY CONSCIOUS OF HERE.

ONE IS THAT IF THE JOURNALISTS THEMSELVES WHO ARE COVERING THESE CONFLICTS CAME FROM ALL DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD AND HAD A KIND OF, YOU KNOW, VERY INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP, INTIMATE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT REFUGEE -- WHAT THE REFUGEE SITUATION, THE REFUGEE CONDITION IS LIKE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, MAYBE THEY WOULD BE LESS PRONE TO MAKE SUCH STATEMENTS.

AND THE SECOND STATEMENT THAT I WOULD MAKE OR THE SECOND OBSERVATION THAT I WOULD MAKE IS ONE AROUND LANGUAGE.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT LATELY WE'VE BECOME MUCH MORE SENSITIVE TO THE KINDS OF LANGUAGE THAT WE USE TO DESCRIBE NOT JUST PEOPLE BUT CIRCUMSTANCES AS WELL.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WORD "REFUGEE" SHOULD ACTUALLY NOT BE USED AS A KIND OF IDENTITY MARKER.

WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ARE MADE INTO REFUGEES.

IT'S A CONDITION.

IT'S A CONDITION THAT SHOULD BE SOLVED AND SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH.

AND IF WE JUST THINK ABOUT PEOPLE AS REFUGEES, THEN THAT LEADS IMMEDIATELY INTO A KIND OF DEHUMANIZING OF THEIR CONDITION ITSELF.

INSTEAD, I THINK WE OUGHT TO BE USING TERMS SUCH AS "PEOPLE WHO ARE MADE INTO REFUGEES" RATHER THAN TALKING ABOUT THEM AS REFUGEES PER SE.

>> INTERESTING.

THAT SAY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAT I AT LEAST HADN'T HEARD YET.

I DO WANT TO ALSO ADDRESS, BECAUSE WE HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT, IN ADDITION TO ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MADE INTO REFUGEES COMING OUT OF UKRAINE, THE SPECIFIC PLIGHT OF AFRO-UKRAINIANS AND STUDENTS OF COLOR WHO WERE STUDYING IN UKRAINE.

WE KNOW THAT I BELIEVE IT WAS THE POLISH PRESIDENT WHO SAID -- OR EXCUSE ME, THE POLISH INTERIOR MINISTER WHO SAID ANYONE FLEEING FROM BOMBS, FROM RUSSIAN RIFLES, CAN COUNT ON SUPPORT FROM THE POLISH STATE.

BUT WE ARE ALSO HEARING COMPLAINTS THAT AFRO-UKRAINIAN STUDENTS ARE BEING OBSTRUCTED FROM CROSSING THE BORDER FROM UKRAINE.

IT SEEMS LIKE, CAN'T WE JUST DEAL WITH THE WAR, MUST WE ALSO HAVE TO ADDRESS RACISM ON TOP OF THAT?

>> UNFORTUNATELY I THINK WE REALLY DO HAVE TO ADDRESS RACISM ON TOP OF THAT.

FOR A VERY IMPORTANT REASON, YOU KNOW, AND THAT IS THAT EVERY HUMAN BEING DESERVES REFUGE AND DESERVES SAFETY.

IF YOU START TO DECIDE THAT SOME HUMAN BEINGS DESERVE REFUGE AND SAFETY BEFORE OTHERS BASED ON THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT COLOR OF SKIN OR A DIFFERENT SYSTEM OF FAITH OR WHAT HAVE YOU, THEN I THINK WE'RE GOING DOWN A PATH THAT IS A VERY DARK ONE INDEED.

AND SO IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT NAME-CALLING.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT TRYING TO BE POLITICALLY CORRECT OR ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

IN FACT IT'S GETTING AT THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE OF HUMAN SOCIETY, AND THAT IS EQUALITY.

AND THAT IS EQUALITY FOR LIFE, EQUALITY FOR SAFETY, AND THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT ARE BEING THREATENED IF WE -- AND EVEN OUR OWN VERY BASIC HUMANITY, THOSE ARE ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING THREATENED IF WE START TO PICK AND CHOOSE AS TO WHO GETS TO CROSS A BORDER WHEN BOMBS ARE FALLING.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, BUT MOUSTAFA BAYOUMI, COLUMNIST FOR "THE GUARDIAN," PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH AT BROOKLYN COLLEGE AND AUTHOR OF THE AWARD-WINNING BOOK, "THIS MUSLIM AMERICAN LIFE: DISPATCHES FROM THE WAR ON TERROR."

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON "METROFOCUS" AND FOR THIS REFLECTION ON MEDIA BIAS AND MEDIA CRITICISM WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH THE WAR ON UKRAINE.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, IT WAS A REAL PLEASURE.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --