>>> TONIGHT, TRANSFORMING OFFICE CULTURE AFTER THE GREAT RESIGNATION.

WE TAKE YOU INSIDE THE PUSH FOR COMPANIES TO PAY UP, TACKLE BURNOUT, AND CREATE A FAIR WORKPLACE FOR WOMEN AND WORKERS EVERYWHERE.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," I'M JACK FORD.

THE WORKPLACE HAS ALWAYS PRESENTED PARTICULAR CHALLENGES TO WOMEN.

OFTEN FORCING THEM TO CHOOSE BETWEEN DOING WHAT'S BEST FOR THEIR CAREERS AND DOING WHAT'S BEST FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

FOR YEARS, THE MESSAGE HAS BEEN THAT IF WOMEN JUST WORK HARD ENOUGH, THEY CAN HAVE IT ALL.

HOWEVER, A NEW BOOK ARGUES THAT IF WOMEN ARE ACTUALLY TO ACHIEVE EQUALITY IN THE OFFICE, WE MUST MOVE AWAY FROM THIS OUTDATED MIND-SET AND STOP IGNORING THE REAL-LIFE CHALLENGES THAT ANY WOMAN SEEKING BOTH A FAMILY AND A CAREER FACES.

THE BOOK IS TITLED "PAY UP: THE FUTURE OF WOMEN AND WORK."

AND WHY IT'S DIFFERENT THAN YOU THINK.

AND IT'S WRITTEN BY RESHMA SAUJANI, THE BEST-SELLING AUTHOR AND THE FOUNDER OF GIRLS WHO CODE.

AND WE'RE DELIGHTED THAT SHE JOINS US NOW TO LAY OUT HER VIGS TO TRANSFORM OUT OFFICES AND HER CULTURE TO BETTER UP PORT ALL WOMEN, ESPECIALLY WORKING MOTHERS.

RE RESHMA, ZTHANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> EXCITED TO BE HERE.

>> IT'S A FASCINATING BOOK.

IT'S COMPELLING.

I MENTIONED THIS BEFOREHAND, AS SOON AS WE'RE FINISHED THIS, I'M SENDING IT TO OUR DAUGHTER WHO IS A -- AN ACCOMPLISHED CANCER SURGEON AND A MOTHER OF TWO BOYS, AS YOU ARE, HER BOYS ARE 6 AND 3.

AND THERE'S SO MUCH IN THIS I WANT HER TO SEE AND TO LEARN ABOUT.

BUT I WANT TO START WITH THIS.

I AM ALWAYS FASCINATED AND I BELIEVE OUR VIEWERS ARE, TOO, ABOUT WHO AN AUTHOR IS AND WHY THEY CHOOSE TO WRITE A PARTICULAR BOOK.

AND IN YOUR PROLOGUE, YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN TRAJECTORY.

AND AS YOU'RE READING IT -- THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE TRAJECTORY FOR SUCCESS, THAT PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO EMULATE.

AND AS YOU'RE DESCRIBING IT, YOU THEN SAY, ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU SAID, STOP.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT TRAJECTORY AND WHY YOU CHOSE TO STOP AT THAT POINT.

>> YEAH, WELL, I'M THE DAUGHTER OF REFUGEES, YOU KNOW, MY PARENTS CAME TO THIS COUNTRY IN 1973.

THEY WERE 2 OF 1,000 ENGINEERS THAT GOT STATUS TO COME HERE.

MY DAD USED TO ALWAYS SAY TO ME, YOU HAVE THREE CHOICES.

YOU CAN BE A DOCTOR, A LAWYER, OR AN ENGINEER.

I PICKED LAW.

YOU KNOW, I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL, YALE LAW SCHOOL AFTER I APPLIED THREE TIMES AND I FINALLY GOT IN.

AND WHEN I SAW -- WHEN I WENT TO THESE BIG LAW FIRMS, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF WOMEN.

OR WHEN I DID SEE WOMEN, I DIDN'T SEE WOMEN WHO WERE MOTHERS.

BUT I, YOU KNOW, LIKE I TALK ABOUT LATER, LEANED IN REALLY HARD, DID EVERYTHING THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO, AND THINKING IF YOU WORKED HARD ENOUGH, THEN YOU CAN GET TO SUCCESS.

YOU KNOW, I FOUND -- >> WHICH IS THE MESSAGE, YOU MENTIONED THE MESSAGE, AGAIN, IT WAS DREAM BIG, WORK HARD, LEAN IN, RIGHT?

AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE, IF YOU DO ALL THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW, THE LIGHTS AND THE WHISTLES WILL GO OFF AND YOU'LL BE SUCCESSFUL.

BUT WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> I FOUND COVID.

YOU KNOW, I -- IN 2020, I STARTED 2020 WITH GIRLS WHO CODE.

STARTED A LARGE ORGANIZATION, LARGEST WOMEN AND GIRLS ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD, GIRLS WHO CODE.

GIRLS WHO CODE HAD A SUPER BOWL AD.

WE WERE GOING TO TEACH MORE GIRLS THAN WE HAD EVER TAUGHT THAT YEAR.

I HAD A NEWBORN BABY WHO WAS BORN THREE WEEKS BEFORE COVID STARTED AND THEN COVID HIT.

AND I FOUND MYSELF HAVING TO GO BACK TO WORK WHEN MY SON WAS A FEW WEEKS OLD, HAVING TO HOME SCHOOL MY KINDERGARTNER AND HAVING TO SAVE MY NONPROFIT FROM A PANDEMIC.

I GOT COVID-19, BUT IT BARELY REGISTERED.

MY LIVER FAILED.

MY LEADERSHIP TEAM WAS MOSTLY ALL MOTHERS OF YOUNG CHILDREN.

AND FOR A LOT OF US, WE WERE SAYING, JUST HOLD ON A BIT, HOLD ON A BIT.

WAIT UNTIL SEPTEMBER, BECAUSE WHEN THE SCHOOLS OPEN, EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY.

WE'LL GET A REPRIEVE.

AND THEN THE SCHOOLS NEVER OPENED.

AND THEY ANNOUNCED SOMETHING CALLED HYBRID LEARNING, WHERE YOU, AS A WORKING MOM, GOT TO LOGON YOUR KID AT 9:00, 10:00, 11:00, ALL THE WHILE YOU MAINTAIN YOUR FULL-TIME JOB.

AND THAT'S WHEN WE SAW MILLIONS, OVER 2 MILLION WOMEN, LEAVE THE WORKFORCE.

THE LARGEST EXODUS IN THE HISTORY OF OUR NATION.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE STARTED THE PAN PANDEMIC, WE WERE 51% OF THE LABOR FORCE.

AND SEEING THAT, EXPERIENCING THAT AS A WORKING MOM IS WHAT LEAD ME TO WRITE THIS BOOK, "PAY UP."

>> LET ME TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE SPECIFICS HERE.

YOU GET INTO -- INTO THE INTRODUCTION AND IN THAT, YOU INTRODUCE US TO WHAT YOU CALL THE BIG LIE.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

WHAT'S THE BIG LIE?

>> WELL, THE BIG LEE, AND THIS IS SOMETHING I SOLD FOR THE PAST DECADE, I TELL MY YOUNG GIRLS WHO CODE STUDENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LEANED IN HARD ENOUGH, YOU COULD GIRL BOSS YOUR WAY TO THE TOP.

THAT THE CORNER OFFICE WAS JUST AN EXPRESS TRAIN AND YOU JUST HAD TO JUMP RIGHT ON IT.

AND DURING THE PANDEMIC, I LEARNED, TAKING CARE OF THESE TWO LITTLE BABIES, TRYING TO RUN MY ORGANIZATION, I WAS EXH EXHAUSTED, AND I HAD RESOURCES.

AND SO, IT WASN'T AS SIMPLE AS TAKING ANOTHER LEADERSHIP COURSE AND COLOR CODING YOUR CALENDAR AND FINDING A MENTOR.

YOU KNOW, WORKPLACES HAVE NEVER BEEN DESIGNED FOR WORKING WOMEN.

AND SO, EVERYTHING THAT -- >> LET ME ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT, WHEN YOU SAY WORKPLACES HAVE NEVER BEEN DESIGNED FOR WORKING WOMEN?

IN WHAT FASHION?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT WE CAN HAVE IT ALL, BUT HAVING IT ALL IS REALLY A EUPHEMISM FOR DOING IT ALL.

AND WORKPLACES HAVE BEEN TELLING US TO FIX OURSELVES AND NOT FIX THE SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, WHAT WE LEARNED IN COVID WAS THAT SO MANY OF US WERE ALREADY DOING 2 1/2 JOBS.

WE WERE DOING THE COOKING AND THE CLEANING AND THE LAUNDRY AND THE HOME SCHOOLING AND THAT WAS A JOB.

AND WE WERE TRYING TO DO THAT JOB WHILE WE WERE MAINTAINING THIS JOB.

AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN UNTENABLE.

BUT WORKPLACES, SINCE ITS INCEPTION, WE TALK ABOUT THIS IN THE HISTORY OF MY BOOK AND MAYBE WE'LL GO INTO IT, IN WORLD WAR II, WE WERE ONLY THERE BECAUSE THE MEN WERE FIGHTING THE WAR AND WE WERE PUSHED OUT.

WE WERE NEVER KNIGHTED.

SO, WE KNEW THE RULES OF PARTIC PARTICIPATION, THAT TO PARTICIPATE, WE HAD TO HIDE OUR MOTHERHOOD.

AND WE HAD TO HIDE THE FACT THAT WE HAD THIS OTHER OBLIGATION.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT, AND AGAIN, I FIND SO MANY OF YOUR OWN ANECDOTES COMPELLING AND YOU TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE FIRST STARTING TO WORK AND YOU'RE WORKING SO MANY HOURS AND SO HARD AND YOU HADN'T HAD -- MARRIED BUT YOU HADN'T HAD YOUR OWN CHILDREN YET AND YET YOU WERE SEEING, IF THIS IS THE RIGHT PHRASE, YOU WERE SEEING AN ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE OF FAMILY IN YOUR OFFICE AND THE OFFICES OF OTHER WOMEN.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, THE WORKPLACES, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WERE PLACES WHERE YOU -- YOU SAW WOMEN BREASTFEEDING IN CLOSETS.

THAT YOU NEVER ACTUALLY HAD PICTURES OF YOUR CHILDREN -- I NEVER HAD PICTURES OF PEOPLE'S CHILDREN ON THEIR DESKS.

YOU KNOW, YOU INVARIABLY WOULD SEE ON SOMEONE'S CALENDAR, YOU KNOW, "LUNCH", WHERE LUNCH WAS REALLY, AGAIN, A EUPHEMISM FOR YOU HAD TO TAKE YOUR KID TO THE DOCTOR BUT YOU COULDN'T SAY THAT.

BUT IF YOU DID, SUDDENLY YOU WERE NOT COMMITTED TO YOUR JOB OR CAREER.

WE KNEW THERE WAS A PENALTY THAT YOU PAID FOR BEING A MOTHER IN THE WORKFORCE.

SO WE HID IT.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT, IF IT INSPIRES -- SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE WOULD SAY TO ME, YOU KNOW, HAVE IMPOSTER SYNDROME.

THEY WERE 4.0 FOR YALE UNIVERSITY, COMPLETELY QUALIFIED, COMPLETELY PREPARED, BUT THEY WERE HAVING CHILDREN AND THEY'RE LIKE, WHY CAN'T I DO THIS?

BECAUSE WE'VE ALMOST TOLD WOMEN THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT.

AND SO WE ALWAYS HTHOUGHT THE PROBLEM WAS US IN THE IN INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> SO, I THINK WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THESE -- THESE HURDLES, THE FIRST THING THAT STRIKES YOU IS THIS NOTION THAT CERTAINLY FOR YOUR GENERATION, AND THE YOUNGER FOLKS COMING UP, THAT -- THE MESSAGE WAS, YOU CAN DO THIS.

AS I SAID IN THE INTRODUCTION, THE MESSAGE WAS, WORK HARD, AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, DREAM BIG, LEAN IN, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

SO, THAT'S THE MESSAGE WE WERE SENDING, BUT THE REALITY IS IT DIDN'T SYNC UP WITH THE MESSAGE.

WHEN DID YOU FIRST BECOME AWARE OF THAT REALITY, THAT THERE WAS NOT A SYNCING UP OF THAT?

>> I THINK WHEN YOU START -- WHEN I STARTED TO SEE THOSE MILLIONS OF WOMEN LEAVE THE WORKFORCE LIKE THAT.

THAT SCARED ME, THAT WE COULD HAVE FOUGHT OUR WAY TO 51% AND IN NINE MONTHS, WE COULD BE BACK TO WHERE WE WERE IN 1989.

AND THAT I REALIZED AS WOMEN, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF HANGING ON BY A THREAD, YOU KNOW?

AND WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN -- IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, AS I TALK ABOUT IN MY BOOK, THIS PROVERBIAL SEESAW, YOU KNOW?

AND AGAIN, WE'RE IN THIS AGE OF INTENSIVE PARENTING, SO, AS A PARENT, AS A MOTHER, MAKE SURE YOUR KID KNOWS MANDARIN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, AND SPANISH, AND PLAYS FIVE SPORTS, AND YOU'RE THIS IDEAL WORKER, WHERE, WITH TECHNOLOGY, YOU'RE ALWAYS ON, YOU'RE ALWAYS PRESENT.

AND SO, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN BARELY HANGING ON.

AND WITH THE PANDEMIC AND SCHOOLS BEING SHUT DOWN, DAY CARE CENTERS BEING CLOSED, THE FACT THAT YOU COULDN'T BRING IN YOUR ELDERLY PARENTS TO WATCH YOUR CHILDREN, AND FOR A LOT OF WOMEN OF COLOR, HOURLY WORKERS VK THEIR JOBS AUTOMATED BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, THERE WAS NO SAFETY NET, BECAUSE WE WERE OUR COUNTRY'S SOCIAL SAFETY NET.

>> YOU HAD ALWAYS BEEN -- THE WOMEN HAD ALWAYS BEEN THEIR OWN SAFETY NET.

>> WE HAD ALWAYS BEEN.

AND SO THAT, FOR ME, WAS THE BIG REVEAL, THAT, WOW, EVERYTHING THAT I'VE BEEN TAUGHT, EVERYTHING THAT I'VE BEEN TEACHING, WAS WRONG.

THAT IT WASN'T AS EASY AS JUST LEANING IN HARDER.

IT WASN'T AS EASY AS TAKING ANOTHER CLASS, BELIEVING IN YOURSELF, BEING BRAVE ENOUGH TO RAISE YOUR HAND, I WOULD SAY.

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT THERE WERE REAL STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS, YOU KNOW?

NOT HAVING AFFORDABLE CHILD CARE, RIGHT?

HAVING, YOU KNOW, SCHOOL DAYS BE FROM 9:00 TO 3:00, BUT WORK HOURS BE FROM 9:00 TO 5:00.

>> IF YOU'RE LUCKY.

>> IF YOU'RE LUCKY, RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE CHILD CARE IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN YOUR MORTGAGE.

THAT WE HAVE BEEN SETTING UP WORKING WOMEN AND FAMILIES UP TO FAIL.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS IN THE BOOK, BUT I WANT TO START OFF WITH WHAT MIGHT SEEM LIKE SOMETHING OF A PARADOX, WHICH IS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE PANDEMIC AND WHAT IT REVEALED TO US, BUT YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY.

>> YES.

>> HOW COULD THAT BE?

HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE THAT SOMETHING, A PANDEMIC THAT WAS SO IMPACTFUL, CAN ALSO PRESENT AN OPPORTUNITY?

>> WELL, BECAUSE THIS SITUATION WASN'T CREATED BY THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S BEEN BREWING FOR DECADES.

IT JUST REVEALED ITSELF TO US.

AND I THINK THE OTHER BONUS THAT WE HAVE OR THE OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE AS WOMEN RIGHT NOW IS LEVERAGE.

YOU KNOW, THE RECENT JOBS REPORT JUST CAME OUT AND WE HAVE MORE JOBS OPEN IN THE UNITED STATES THAN EVER BEFORE.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE DESPERATE FOR WORKERS, FOR TALENT.

IT'S A SELLER'S MARKET.

AND SO, IF THERE'S EVER BEEN A MOMENT FOR WOMEN TO SAY, I AM NOT GOING BACK TO A BROKEN SYSTEM, HERE'S WHAT I NEED, IT IS NOW.

AND SO, WE HAVE -- IT'S FUNNY, JACK, THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE, AS YOU SEE, TO GO BACK TO THE OLD NORMAL, AS WE CALL IT, RIGHT, COME BACK TO THE OFFICE, FIVE DAYS A WEEK, NO MORE FLEXIBILITY, NO MORE REMOTE WORKING, NONE OF THOSE THINGS, JUST COME BACK, JUST COME BACK, JUST COME BACK.

SO, WE HAVE TO RESIST IT.

AND I THINK WE HAVE THIS WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF THE YEAR TO REALLY START CHANGING, YOU KNOW, CHANGING WHAT WORKPLACES CAN LOOK LIKE AND TRANSFORMING THEM.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT -- YOU HAVE SOME ESSENTIALS OF CHANGE, OR PRINCIPLES OF CHANGE.

GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE AND WHY THEY WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.

>> YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, THE FOUR THINGS I TALK ABOUT IS, ONE IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EMPOWERING YOURSELF.

I DIDN'T WANT TO WRITE A BOOK WHERE I AGAIN WAS SAYING TO WOMEN, GO FIX YOURSELF.

BUT I DID WANT TO SET SOME THINGS -- >> WHICH SUGGESTS THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG INTRINSICALLY WITH YOU, WITH THE WOMEN, NOT WITH THE SYSTEM THAT SURROUNDING YOU.

YET YOU WOULD HEAR THAT IN THE PAST BY SAYING, GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF, FIX YOURSELF -- >> GO MEDITATE, GO DO SOME YOGA, YOU'LL BE FINE.

>> AND SO, SET SOME TANGIBLE BOUNDARIES FOR YOURSELF.

SO, IN EXAMPLE, MANY MY HOUSE, THE HUSBAND DOES THE NIGHTS AND I DO THE MORNINGS.

AND AT 6 :00, IF I'M SITTING AROUND WATCHING NETFLIX, HE'LL SAY, HEY, CAN YOU WARM THE BOTTLE, CAN YOU CHANGE THE DIAPER?

SO, YOU KNOW, AT 6:00 P.M., I LEAVE AND I GO PLAN A GIRL'S NIGHT OR I HAVE A DINNER BY MYSELF, BUT I'M JUST GONE.

AND THAT WAY, HONESTLY, HE REALLY DOES THE NIGHTS AND I GET TO HAVE TIME FOR MYSELF.

SO, YOU KNOW, SETTING BOUNDARIES IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, THE SECOND I TALK ABOUT IS REALLY TRABS FORMING THE WORKPLACE.

THERE'S NINE STRATEGIES THAT I PUT OUT THERE ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO BE CHANGING.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE MOMENT FOR US TO GET SUBSIDIZED CHILD CARE.

SO MANY COMPANIES GIVE YOU, YOU KNOW, FREE GYM MEMBERSHIPS AND EGG FREEZING, BUT WHEN YOU BECOME A MOM, THERE'S -- THE SUPPORT IS GONE.

>> AND YOU TALK ABOUT HOW WE COMPARE -- I WANT YOU TO CONTINUE, BUT YOU DO MENTION HOW WE COMPARE TO OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.

>> YEAH.

>> WE DON'T COMPARE WELL.

>> WE DO NOT COMPARE WELL.

CHILD CARE IS MORE EXPENSIVE, UNAVAILABLE HERE THAN IN ANY OTHER NATION.

I WAS DOING A PANEL WITH SOME MINISTERS OF -- IN BOTH OF FRANCE AND KHANNCANADA, THE WOMS SAYING, WOW, POSTPAN DOMIC, WE HAVE A BOOM, MORE WOMEN THAN EVER BEFORE ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE WORK FORCE.

AND IT BROKE MY HEART.

IN CANADA, CHILD CARE IS CHEAP.

IT'S AFFORDABLE.

EVERYONE CAN HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

AND SO THESE THINGS ACTUALLY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

THEY'RE ECONOMIC ISSUES.

WE'VE ALWAYS TREATED CHILD CARE ISSUES AS YOUR PERSONAL PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE TO SOLVE.

IT IS AN ECONOMIC ISSUE IN THE SAME WAY THAT HEALTH CARE WAS.

HEALTH CARE COST FOR FAMILIES WERE SO XUB RAPT THAT EMPLOYERS STARTED PAYING A PIECE OF IT.

IT'S THE SAME THING FOR CHILD CARE.

IT'S TIME.

YOU KNOW, THE THIRD THING I TALK ABOUT IS THE NEED TO KIND OF REVISE THE NARRATIVE.

YOU KNOW, TO VALUE MOTHERHOOD, WE HAVE TO STOP HIDING IT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, SO MANY WOMEN I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY BECAME PREGNANT, THEY WOULD WAIT UNTIL THE LAST POSSIBLE SECOND TO TELL THEIR EMPLOY YEAR.

THERE'S JUST AN ARTICLE OUT RECENTLY ABOUT HOW ZOOM'S SO GREAT, BECAUSE YOU CAN WAIT UNTIL THE VERY LAST SECOND -- >> NO ONE CAN TELL YOU'RE PREGNANT.

>> NO ONE KNOWS, WHICH MEANS NOBODY CAN DISCRIMINATE AGAINST YOU.

AND WE CAN'T GO BACK TO THAT.

AND WE HAVE TO -- SO, WE HAVE TO STOP HIDING OUR MOTHERHOOD AND OURERS HAVE TO STOP ASKING US TO HIDE OUR MOTHERHOOD.

AND FINALLY, WE HAVE TO ADVOCATE.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T WAIT FOR CONGRESS TO GROW A HEART.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE BAILED OUT AIRLINES BUT WE HAVEN'T BAILED OUT MOMS IS SHAMEFUL.

AND SO WE HAVE GOT TO START MOBILIZING AND ORGANIZING AND FIGHTING FOR PAID LEAVE AND AFFORDABLE CHILD CARE AND THE CHILD TAX CREDIT AND RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE REAL GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURES THAT CAN BE PUT INTO PLACE, POLICIES THAT CAN BE PUT INTO PLACE, BENEFITS THAT CAN BE PUT INTO PLACE THAT WE DESERVE.

AND THAT OTHER WOMEN HAVE ACROSS THE WORLD.

>> YOU USE A TERM THAT I FOUND BOTH CURIOUS AND POWERFUL, AND THAT WAS, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PARENT LOUDLY.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> IT MEANS NOT HIDING YOUR MOTHERHOOD.

YOU KNOW, IT MEANS, LIKE, WHEN I -- FOR MY FIRST SON, I BROUGHT HIM EVERYWHERE.

WHEN I GAVE THE COMMENCEMENT SPEECH AT HARVARD, THERE HE WAS.

WHEN I WAS SPEECHING TO THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT FOR MORE CODING CLASSES, HE WAS THERE.

IT WAS MESSY.

I HAD SPITUP OR FOOD ON ME, HE WAS CRYING AND SCREAMING.

IT WAS MESSY.

BUT IT WAS HONEST.

AND IT WAS REAL.

AND SO, WE HAVE GOT TO STOP, YOU KNOW -- AND WE'RE NOT CRAZY FOR HIDING OUR MOTHERMOOD, BECAUSE THERE'S SOMEONE CALLED THE MOTHERHOOD PARENT, WHEN YOU BECOME A MOTHER, YOU'RE PAID LESS.

YOU KNOW, WE SEE THAT WE'RE TREATED DIFFERENTLY FOR IT, BUT INSTEAD OF KIND OF GOING ALONG WITH SOCIETY AND HIDING IT, WE NEED TO PARENT -- THAT'S WHY I'M WEARING MY MOMMA LA NECKLACE.

ON LINKEDIN, YOU CAN PUT THE YOUR TITLE AS MOTHER.

IT'S THE PROUDEST TITLE I HAVE.

>> I MENTIONED TO OUR DAUGHTER WHO IS A CANCER SURGEON WITH TWO BOYS AND TELLS THE STORY DURING THE PANDEMIC, AS A CANCER SURGEON, SHE HAD TO BE IN THE HOSPITAL, SHE WAS DOING A LOT OF HER TELEMEDICINE AND AT VARIOUS TIMES, ONE OF HER BOYS, USUALLY THE 3-YEAR-OLD OR THE, AT THAT TIME, 2 TO 3-YEAR-OLD, WOULD POP UP ON THE SCREEN.

AND HE'D SAY THINGS, HE'D WALK IN WITH A MAGIC MARKER AND SAY, MOMMA, I WAS COLORING AND THINKING, OH, WHERE?

AND SHE SAID IT WAS INTERESTING.

AFTER AWHILE, SHE DIDN'T FIGHT IT.

AND SHE HAD PATIENTS NOW, INTERESTINGLY, SHE -- HER PATIENTS ARE WOMEN, AND HER PATIENTS WOULD SAY, IT'S FINE, LET HIM STAY RIGHT THERE, OR, OTHER WOULD SAY, YOU BETTER GO CHECK WHAT HE WAS COLORING ON, RIGHT?

AND SO, I THINK -- IS THAT AN ILLUSTRATION OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK WHAT WAS HAPPENING, SOMETIMES IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC, WE WERE TURNING OFF OUR VIDEOS WHEN OUR KIDS WERE COMING IN.

WE WERE APOLOGIZING.

AND I THINK BY THE END, WE WERE JUST LIKE, AH, IT'S JUST -- IT'S JUST HAPPENING ALL HERE.

I DO WORRY, YOU KNOW, AS ONE OF THE OTHER STRATEGIES I TALK ABOUT IS PREDICTABILITY AND FLEXIBILITY THAT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, WHEN WE DESIGN REMOTE WORKING, THAT IT DOESN'T BECOME, YOU KNOW, A TWO-TIERED SYSTEM.

THAT -- >> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

PEOPLE EITHER COMING BACK OR CREATING SOME SORT OF A HYBRID, WHAT'S THE DANGER OF THAT FOR WOMEN?

>> THE DANGER IS THAT IT'S JUST WOMEN WHO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING -- I HAVE A 2-YEAR-OLD AND THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT JUST, LIKE, SEEING HIM AROUND THE HOUSE OR KNOWING I CAN GIVE HIM A CUDDLE OF A HUG OR FEED HIM OR SEE WHAT HE'S UP TO.

CHECK ON HIM.

IT FEELS LIKE SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WITH MY FIRST, WHICH I SPENT 20 MINUTES A DAY WITH.

I THINK WOMEN WANT THAT.

I ALSO THINK BECAUSE WOMEN ARE DOING THE BULK OF THE CARETAKING AND THE LABOR, DOING SOME, YOU KNOW, LOADS OF LAUNDRY, GETTING THE GROCERIES, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

MAKING SURE THAT DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENTS ARE TAKEN CARE OF.

WE'RE DOING THAT WORK ANYWAY.

NOW, THE OPPORTUNITY IS IS THAT IF ANYBODY IS WORKING REMOTELY AT SOME PERIODS OF THE DAY, THEN, YOU KNOW, OUR PARTNERS GET TO TAKE IN ON SOME OF THAT DOMESTIC LABOR, TOO, AND SHIFTING THE RATIO OF WORK.

SO, I THINK DESIGN AND HOW WE DESIGN THIS, TO NOT EXACERBATE INEQUALITY, TO NOT EXACERBATE THE GENDER INEQUALITY AT HOME IS CRITICAL.

>> YOU DO -- AMONG THE MANY THINGS THAT YOU DO HERE IS THE MARSHALL PLAN FOR MOMS.

AND YOU WRITE ABOUT IT IN YOUR BOOK.

MARSHALL PLAN, PROBABLY REMEMBER FOLLOWING WORLD WAR II, IN ORDER TO SOMEHOW PICK UP DEVASTATED EUROPE, HERE'S WHAT EVERYBODY WAS GOING TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, AND WHAT'S YOUR ORGANIZATION DOING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A MARSHALL PLAN FOR MOMS?

>> WELL, THE MARSHALL PLAN FOR MOMS, YOU KNOW, STARTED OUT OF COVID, OUT OF THE -- WHERE'S THE PLAN?

ALL THESE WOMEN HAVE LEFT, WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

IT STARTED WITH A FULL PAGE AD THAT I TOOK OUT IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WITH AMY SCHUMER, GABRIELLE UNION, MINDY GR GROSSGROSSMAN, LEADERS WHO SAID TO PRESIDENT BIDEN, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

MOM'S ARE NOT AMERICA'S SOCIAL SAFETY NET, WE DO NOT WORK FOR FREE.

WE FOLLOWED THAT UP FROM AN AD FROM 50 MEN LED BY STEPH CURRY, WITH MEN STAYING, YOU TOLD ME THAT YOUR MOM WAS A SINGLE MOM, A LOT OF MEN EXPERIENCED THIS.

AND THEY ALSO FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE, YOU KNOW, CHANGE THE SITUATION FOR WORKING MOTHERS SO THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY NOT JUST SURVIVE, BUT THRIVE.

AND SO, THE MARSHALL PLAN FOR MOMS IS A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT IS PUSHING IN PRIVATE POLICIES TO HELP, YOU KNOW, WORKING WOMEN OUT OF THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND RECOVER.

AND SO, FOR A LONG TIME, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS A LITTLE MORE HOPEFUL, WE THOUGHT THAT THAT CHANGE WAS GOING TO COME FROM GOVERNMENT.

AND NOW, YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS, ALMOST AT THE TWO-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE PANDEMIC AND, YOU KNOW, THE BILL FORMERLY KNOWN AS BUILD BACK BETTER, I JUST -- LIKE I SAID, I'M WAITING FOR CONGRESS TO GROW A HEART.

BUT WE STILL HAVE ALMOST 1.1 MILLION WOMEN MISSING FROM THE WORK FORCE.

MILLIONS OF OTHERS WHO HAVE DOWNSHIFTED.

51% OF WOMEN -- OF WORKING MOMS SAID THEY ARE ANXIOUS OR DEPRESSED.

THE GREAT RESIGNATION, THE GREAT QUIT IS BEING DRIVEN BY WOMEN WHO ARE QUITTING BECAUSE OF THEIR CHILD CARE ISSUES AND THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT FINDING THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED FROM THEIR MANAGERS OR THEIR SPOUSES.

SO, WOMEN ARE IN CRISIS.

AND WE CAN'T WAIT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO ACT.

AND SO, OUR FOCUS IS REALLY ON THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

AND, YOU KNOW, WITH THIS BOOK "PAY UP," REALLY IGNITING, ORGANIZING WOMEN IN WORKPLACES TO MAKE DEMANDS.

STARTING WITH CHILD CARE.

JACK, RIGHT NOW, MY GOAL IS TO GET -- 10% OF COMPANIES SUBSIDIZE CHILD CARE.

I'M GOING TO GET TO 100%.

>> ASTONISHING THAT THAT NUMBER IS STARTING AT SUCH A LOW POINT.

>> SUCH A LOW POINT.

AND THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

THE PANDEMIC IS WHAT GOT COMPANIES STARTING TO OFFER BACKUP CARE AND SUBSIDIES, YOU KNOW?

BUT NOW, WE KNOW THAT THE REASON WHY -- STUDY AFTER STUDY AFTER STUDY SHOWS THAT THE REASON WHY WOMEN AREN'T COMING BACK IS BECAUSE OF CHILD CARE.

IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT EMPLOYEES WANT ARE COMPANIES TO HELP THEM WITH THEIR CHILD CARE.

SO, YOU KNOW, TAKE AMAZON FOR EXAMPLE.

IT'S LIKE, YOU'RE INCREASING BASE SALARIES FROM 150 UP TO 350, BUT PEOPLE ARE LEAVING SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT MONTHS, YOU'RE OUT MONEY.

SO, THE COST OF ATTRITION IS ACTUALLY HIGHER THAN IF YOU STARTED OFFERING SUBSIDIES FOR CHILD CARE.

AND IF YOU START CARING FOR MY FAMILY, I'M GOING TO STAY WITH YOU.

>> YEAH.

SO, IF THEY JUST LOOK AT IT FROM A BOTTOM LINE PERSPECTIVE, IT JUST MAKES ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD.

I GOT ABOUT -- I GOT LITTLE BIT LESS THAN TWO MINUTES HERE, ACTUALLY, MINUTE AND A HALF.

YOU MENTIONED HOPEFUL BEFORE.

WHY ARE YOU HOPEFUL THAT IF WE CAN EMBRACE EVEN SOME OF WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT HERE IN THE BOOK, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO REDEFINE THE DEFINITION OF SUCCESSFUL FOR WOMEN?

>> VERY HOPEFUL.

LET ME TELL YOU WHY.

WHEN I STARTED GIRLS WHO CODE, THE PLACES WHERE I STARTED WERE REFUGEE CAMPS.

POOREST COMMUNITIES.

AND I SAID TO MYSELF, IF I CAN TEACH A GIRL TO CODE HERE, I CAN TEACH ANY GIRL TO CODE.

IT'S THE SAME THING WITH P WORKPLACES.

IF WE CAN MAKE WORKPLACES FINALLY WORK FOR WORKING MOMS, WE MAKE THEM WORK FOR EVERYONE.

WHEN I TALK TO DADS, OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, THEY GOT TO WALK THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL, TAKE THEM TO SOCCER GAMES, SPEND TIME WITH THEM, CARETAKE.

AND THEY DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT OLD NORMAL, EITHER.

I TALK TO YOUNG WOMEN WHO DON'T HAVE CHILDREN YET AND THEY LOOK AT US AND THEY SAY, THE BIRTHRATE IS AT AN 50-YEAR ALL-TIME LOW.

THEY LOOK US AND AND SAY, NO, THANK YOU.

YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THIS, TOO.

DON'T LET THEM TAKE YOUR CHOICE AWAY FROM YOU.

WHAT WE'RE FIGHTING FOR IN "PAY UP," IT'S WHAT WE ALL WANT.

>> WELL, ONCE AGAIN, THE BOOK IS CALLED "PAY UP: THE FUTURE OF WOMEN AND WORK AND WHY IT'S DIFFERENT THAN YOU THINK."

AND I LOVE YOUR INSPIRATIONAL QUOTE IN THE BEGINNING, WHERE YOU SAY, FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF WOMEN, SO THE MARKETPLACE OF THE FUTURE FINALLY WORKS FOR THEM.

RESHMA SAUJANI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING SOME TIME WITH US.

BE WELL.

>> THANK YOU, JACK, YOU, TOO.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --