>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER J. PETERSON AND JOAN CUNY FUND.

AND BY JANET BRINDLE SEIDLER.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JOUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORWARD.

GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO HAS FOUND HIMSELF AT THE CENTER OF A SCANDAL OVER ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

IN THE PAST WEEK THREE WOMEN HAVE COME FORWARD AND ACCUSED THE GOVERNOR OF UNWANTED ADVANCES, TWO ARE FORMER AIDES WHO HAVE SINCE RESIGNED.

LETITIA JAMES IS HEADING UP AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO THESE ALLEGATIONS.

A THIRD WOMAN HAS RECENTLY STEPPED FORWARD ACCUSING THE GOVERNOR OF ENGAGING IN UNWANTED ADVANCES TOWARDS HER AT A WEDDING RECEPTION.

NOW A GROWING NUMBER OF LAWMAKERS INCLUDING MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNOR'S OWN PARTY ARE CALLING ON HIM TO STEP DOWN.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE ONE LAWMAKER LEADING THAT CHARGE HAS BEEN NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVE NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS.

SHE HAS BEEN CALLING ON THE GOVERNOR TO STEP DOWN FOR A NUMBER OF WEEKS NOW, FIRST OVER THE NURSING HOME SCANDAL AND NOW OVER THESE HARASSMENT AND INAPPROPRIATE CONDUCT ALLEGATIONS.

WE ARE PLEASED TO HAVE REPRESENTATIVE NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES AND ALSO ABOUT HER POSITION ON THE COVID RELIEF BILL WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH CONGRESS.

THE ASPECTS THAT SHE SUPPORTS AND ASPECTS SHE OPPOSES.

REPRESENTATIVE MALLIOTAKIS, A PRESSURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US AS ALWAYS.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO LET'S FOCUS FIRST ON THESE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.

AS I MENTIONED, YOU HAD TAKEN THIS POSITION EARLIER WITH REGARD TO THE NURSING HOME INVESTIGATION, NURSING HOME SCANDAL, AND NOW ESSENTIALLY REINFORCING IT WITH THESE ALLEGATIONS.

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE -- NOW, THIS IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AND WE KNOW THAT IN THE NEXT ELECTION IF HE RUNS AGAIN THE PUBLIC COULD WEIGH IN ON ALL OF THESE THINGS, BUT WHY ARE YOU TAKING THE POSITION THAT NOW AT THIS STAGE HE SHOULD BE RESIGNING?

>> WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED HERE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS.

I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO CALL FOR A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE GOVERNOR'S MISHANDLING OF NURSING HOMES.

SINCE THAT TIME, THOUGH, WE HAVE LEARNED THAT NOT ONLY DOES THE GOVERNOR MISHANDLE IN MY OPINION OF COURSE IT'S BEING INVESTIGATED AS WELL, BUT HE UNDERREPORTED THE NUMBER OF NURSING HOME DEATHS AS WELL AS THE NUMBER OF COVID-POSITIVE PATIENTS PLACED IN NURSING HOMES THAT LED TO THOSE DEATHS.

HE STONEWALLED THE LEGISLATURE, REFUSING TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.

I WAS A MEMBER OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE AT THE TIME THAT HELD THE HEARING IN WHICH HIS HEALTH COMMISSIONER CAME AND REFUSED TO ANSWER ANY OF OUR QUESTIONS AND LEFT ABRUPTLY.

IN ADDITION TO THAT WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN ADMITTED COVER UP, AS HIS CHIEF OF STAFF SAID THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO PURPOSELY HIDE INFORMATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT AN INVESTIGATION.

THEN HE THREATENED ONE OF HIS COLLEAGUES, ASSEMBLY MEMBER RON KIM WHO IS A DEMOCRAT AS WELL, AND WAS CONCERNED AND STOOD UP TO THE GOVERNOR BECAUSE HIS UNCLE DIED IN A NURSING HOME.

SO THESE ALONE I THINK ARE ALLEGATIONS -- NOT ALLEGATIONS, BUT SOME OF THE CASES IT'S PROVEN, THESE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT I THINK ARE UNBECOMING OF A GOVERNOR AND THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT CLAIMS ONLY EXACERBATE THAT.

I THINK THAT THAT ONLY ADDS ALL THE MORE REASON WHY GOVERNOR CUOMO NEEDS TO GO.

>> LET ME ASK YOU FIRST ABOUT THE NURSING HOME SCENARIO HERE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INVESTIGATIONS TAKING PLACE, APPARENTLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING AT IT, THE FAITH AGENCIES ARE TAKING A LOOK AT IT.

WHAT ABOUT THE SUGGESTION THAT -- LET'S WAIT AND SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH FIRST?

THE SUGGESTION THAT WOULDN'T THAT BE THE PRUDENT COURSE, THEN?

LET'S GET THE FACTS OUT, FIND OUT WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY AND THEN WE CAN ASSESS WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES SHOULD BE, WHAT ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THAT IS THE CORRECT PATH FOR A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, WHICH MAY POTENTIALLY HAPPEN, BUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THE RESIGNATION FROM A GOVERNOR WHERE WE DO KNOW THAT THE NUMBERS WERE UNDERREPORTED BECAUSE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS ALREADY DONE AN INVESTIGATION AND HAS EXPOSED THAT.

WE DO KNOW THAT HE STONEWALLED THE STATE LEGISLATURE, REFUSING TRANSPARENCY AND PROVIDING ANSWERS THAT WE WERE DEMANDING.

WE DO KNOW BECAUSE HIS CHIEF OF STAFF ADMITTED IT THAT THERE WAS A COVER UP ON PURPOSE BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO HIDE THAT INFORMATION.

AND WE DO KNOW BASED ON TESTIMONY BY ASSEMBLYMAN RON KIM THAT HE HAS THREATENED AND BULLIED OTHER LAWMAKERS.

SO THAT IN ITSELF, I BELIEVE, IS REASON AND CERTAINLY FOR CRIMINAL PROSECUTION THAT AN INVESTIGATION NEEDS TO CONTINUE INDEPENDENTLY AND WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE.

>> LET ME ASK YOU A SIMILAR QUESTION, THEN, ABOUT THESE ALLEGATIONS OF EITHER HARASSMENT OR INAPPROPRIATE -- OF THE GOVERNOR.

AND IT'S A SIMILAR QUESTION IN TERMS OF INVESTIGATIONS TAKING PLACE.

WE KNOW THAT, WE REALIZE NOW, WE'VE COME TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALLEGATIONS SUCH AS THIS NEED TO BE TAKEN -- AND NOT AS WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST CAN EITHER BE DISMISSED OUT OF HAND OR SIMPLY IGNORED.

BUT AS COROLLARY TO THAT SHOULD WE ALSO BE SAYING THAT THESE ALLEGATIONS NEED TO BE INVESTIGATED BEFORE CONSEQUENCES AT ATTACH?

AGAIN, WE CANNOT IGNORE THESE SIMPLY OUT OF HAND, BUT THE ARGUMENT GOES WE SHOULD ALSO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THESE ARE THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED BEFORE WE ATTACH WHAT COULD BE SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES HERE FOR A SIGNIFICANT GOVERNOR ELECTED BY THE POPULOUS TO GIVE UP THAT OFFICE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT WITH REGARD TO THESE TYPES OF ALLEGATIONS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT SOME OF THE ALLEGATIONS ARE NO LONGER ALLEGATIONS BECAUSE YOU HAVE HAD TESTIMONY SPECIFIC BY HIS OWN CHIEF OF STAFF OR AN INVESTIGATION ALREADY DONE BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

CERTAINLY WITH THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT THAT DOES NEED TO BE INVESTIGATED AND I KNOW THAT -- AND I'M HAPPY THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS GOING TO BE THE PERSON THAT OVERSEES THAT AND WILL APPOINT AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS A PRIVATE PRACTICE ATTORNEY TO BE ABLE TO INDEPENDENTLY REVIEW THAT.

BUT, LOOK, THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF HAS PREVIOUSLY SAID THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO -- FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S USE ASSEMBLYMAN VETO LOPEZ IN 2013 ACCUSED OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT AND SAID HE SHOULD RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.

THAT HE SHOULD NOT SERVE ANOTHER DAY IN OFFICE.

THE GOVERNOR CAN'T HAVE AN OPINION WHEN IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE BUT WHEN IT'S HIM HE DOESN'T WANT TO ABIDE BY THOSE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> CAN I ASK YOU ALSO, THEN, IN LINE WITH THAT, WHAT YOU JUST SAID, WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAID, ONE OF THE LOCAL NEWSPAPERS HAD COME OUT AND SAID WITH REGARD TO YOUR POSITION, THE GOVERNOR SHOULD STEP DOWN BECAUSE OF THESE ALLEGATIONS, ESSENTIALLY THEY SAID, ALL RIGHT, FINE, IF THAT'S THE POSITION YOU'RE TAKING AND YOU FEEL IT'S JUSTIFIED THEN THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO TAKE, BUT THEY SAID, WELL, THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE A SIMILAR APPROACH TO THEN PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND NOT CALL FOR HIS RESIGNATION WHEN SOME SIMILAR -- OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST HIM THAT WERE VERY DIFFERENT, BUT THERE WERE SOME WORKPLACE ALLEGATIONS BUT, AGAIN, CLEARLY WE SHOULD NOTE NOT WHILE HE WAS SITTING AS THE PRESIDENT.

SO HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND THEN TO THE NEWSPAPERS SAYING, WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE THAT SAME POSITION AND INSIST THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT RESIGN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I WASN'T A MEMBER OF CONGRESS AT THAT TIME, JUST LIKE I DIDN'T CALL FOR BILL CLINTON TO RESIGN, EITHER, YOU KNOW?

I THINK HERE I AM NOW AS A MEMBER OF CONGRESS, THIS IS RELATED TO MY SPECIFIC STATE OF NEW YORK AND MY CALLS FOR RESIGNATION ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

I CALLED FOR HIM TO RESIGN OVER THE NURSING HOMES.

I'M ONLY SAYING THAT THIS IS GIVING MORE REASON AS TO WHY HE NEEDS TO GO.

>> LET ME SHIFT OUR FOCUS FOR A MOMENT BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH I WANT TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THE COVID RELIEF BILL.

AS I SAID IN THE INTRODUCTION WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH CONGRESS.

WE KNOW IT PASSED THE HOUSE WITH NO REPUBLICANS AND INDEED WITH A COUPLE DEMOCRATS VOTING AGAINST IT.

WORKING ITS WAY NOW INTO THE SENATE.

YOU SAID THERE'S SOME PARTS OF THIS THAT YOU CERTAINLY SUPPORT, BUT SOME PARTS THAT YOU DON'T.

LET'S START WITH THE PARTS THAT YOU DO SUPPORT.

WHAT ELEMENTS OF THIS BILL DO YOU THINK ARE ESSENTIAL AND NEED TO GET INTO PLAY QUICKLY?

>> WELL, JACK, I THINK WE ALL AGREE THAT WE NEED TAILORED RELIEF.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MONEY ACTUALLY GETS TO THE PEOPLE AND THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE HELD BY BUREAUCRACIES ACROSS GOVERNMENT.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A TRILLION DOLLARS STILL REMAINING FROM THE PREVIOUS PACKAGES THAT IS UNSPENT.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT MONEY -- IF IT'S NOT GOING TO GO FOR THOSE INTENDED PURPOSES THEN THEY NEED TO BE REALLOCATED FOR WHAT THE NEEDS ARE TODAY.

WE KNOW THAT WE WANT TO SUPPORT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ON UNEMPLOYMENT, WE NEED TO EXTEND THOSE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, WE WANT TO RETURN TAXPAYER MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS IN THE FORM OF STIMULUS CHECKS.

WE DO WANT TO HELP OUT SMALL BUSINESSES AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY GET SUPPORT, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT WERE MANDATED TO CLOSE BY GOVERNMENT.

AND WE NEED TO REOPEN OUR SCHOOLS, BUT LET'S ALSO POINT OUT THAT CDC SAID IT WOULD COST $25 BILLION TO REOPEN OUR SCHOOLS, PREVIOUS PACKAGES SET ASIDE $64 BILLION.

A LOT OF THAT REMAINS UNSPENT.

SCHOOLS ARE STILL CLOSED.

SO IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF MONEY WITH REOPENING SCHOOLS IT'S AN ISSUE OF ACTUALLY JUST DOING IT.

THIS BILL WOULD ADD ANOTHER $130 BILLION FOR REOPENING SCHOOLS.

SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THIS MISMANAGEMENT -- GOVERNMENT WANDS TO SPEND EIGHT TIMES WHAT CDC PREVIOUSLY SAYS IS NECESSARY TO REOPEN AMERICA'S SCHOOLS.

SO THAT'S ONE THING.

THE SECOND THING LESS THAN 1% ACTUALLY GOES TO VACCINE PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION, WHICH ASK ANY LEADER DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, LOCAL OR NATIONAL, THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

THE FACT THAT IT'S LESS THAN 1% OF THIS PLAN SHOWS YOU HOW TRULY BLOATED THIS BILL IS.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF STUFF IN HERE, NANCY PELOSI GETS A NEW RAIL LINE FOR SILICON VALLEY, PLANNED PARENTHOOD GETS MONEY, $3.5 BILLION FOR THE GLOBAL FUND, AIDS, MALARIA AND TUBERCULOSIS.

WHY WOULD AMERICAN TAXPAYERS PAY FOR 88% OF THIS INTERNATIONAL FUND'S EXPENDITURE?

WHERE ARE THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT SHOULD BE INVOLVED?

IT NEEDS TO BE TAILORED TO COVID RELIEF.

WE ARE APPROACHING THAT $30 TRILLION DEFINITE SIT IN THIS COUNTRY.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE MONEY GETS TO THE PEOPLE.

ANY STATE MONEY THAT COMES TO NEW YORK THE MAYOR AND NEED TO MAKE A COMMITMENT THAT THEY WON'T RAISE INCOME TAXES AND PROPERTY TAXES THAT ARE DRIVING PEOPLE OUT THAT ARE INCREASING THE COSTS OF LIVING IN THE CITY, WHETHER YOU ARE A HOMEOWNER OR A RENTER WHO THAT COST IS BEING PASSED ON TO YOU.

THEY SHOULD NOT RAISE TOLLS.

MTA GOT $8 BILLION IN THE PREVIOUS PACKAGE, THEY ARE SET TO GET ANOTHER $6 BILLION HERE AND THEY HAD THE AUDACITY TO RAISE TOLLS ALL ACROSS THE CITY OF NEW YORK.

THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE AND THE GOVERNOR CAN STOP IT BECAUSE HE CONTROLS THE MTA BOARD.

>> GOT ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF.

AGAIN, THIS IS VERY COMPLICATED.

IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE EVEN IN AN HOUR-LONG CONVERSATION TO HIGHLIGHT ALL THE ELEMENTS.

BUT YOU HAVE LAID OUT SOME OF THE THINGS -- LOOK, I THINK WE ALL BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE ALL PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, I THINK EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES WHAT YOU SAID IN THE VERY BEGINNING.

THINGS NEED TO GET DONE.

I THINK WE CAN ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS OFTENTIMES GENERATES DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE IN BILLS.

AS YOU MENTIONED, I'M SURE THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY ON THE OTHER SIDE, WELL, THERE IS A VALUE TO ALL OF THIS.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS ARE YOU AT ALL -- AND, AGAIN, I'VE GOT A MINUTE AND I APOLOGIZE FOR ASKING A QUESTION LIKE THIS IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, BUT ARE YOU AT ALL CONFIDENT THAT PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL, ALL OF NEW CONGRESS WILL BE ABLE TO GET TOGETHER AND SAY HERE IS WHAT WE CAN COMPROMISE ON SO THAT PEOPLE CAN BE HELPED?

>> IT'S FUNNY YOU'RE GIVING ME ONE MINUTE WHICH IS THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME THAT NANCY PELOSI GAVE ME TO ACTUALLY EXPOSE THE 600-PAGE BILL SPENDING $179 TRILLION.

A HALF AN HOUR FOR OUR ENTIRE CONFERENCE TO DEBATE THIS BILL.

THAT'S THE DISGRACE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN WASHINGTON.

I HOPE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WANTS TO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS AS WELL.

I WROTE A LETTER TO THE PRESIDENT SAYING AS A REPUBLICAN, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE FRESHMEN WE WANT TO WORK TOGETHER AND FIND COMMON GROUND AND TRANSPORTATION, INFRASTRUCTURE, COVID RELIEF.

THERE ARE AREAS WE CAN WORK TOGETHER BUT IT HAS TO BE IN GOOD WILL.

THEY CHANGED THE RULES SO THAT WAY THEY COULD PASS THIS BILL WITH 5 # VOTES IN THE SENATE WITHOUT ANY REPUBLICAN SUPPORT.

RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO WORK ACROSS PARTY LINES.

>> WELL, I THINK WE CAN ALL HOPE THAT EVERYBODY -- PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL, EVEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE CAN AGREE ON ENOUGH ASPECTS OF THIS TO GET IT MOVING FORWARD.

REPRESENTATIVE MALLIOTAKIS, WE ARE ALWAYS HAPPY WHEN YOU JOIN US HERE AND TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US AND WE WILL LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU JOIN US AGAIN SOMETIME REAL SOON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU TAKE CARE.

.WELL.

>> THANK YOU.

♪ >>> WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," I'M RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

YOU KNOW, AT A TIME WHEN A GLOBAL PANDEMIC HAS KILLED MILLIONS AND TURNED OUR LIVES UPSIDE DOWN AND AT A TIME WHEN POLITICAL TURMOIL HAS ALL TOO OFTEN TURNED AMERICAN AGAINST AMERICAN AND EVEN FRIEND AGAINST FRIEND, MANY OF US HAVE FRANKLY TURNED TO PRAYER.

BUT WHAT IS PRAYER?

AND IF WE DO PRAY, WHY EXACTLY DO BY PRAY?

HOW DO WE PRAY AND WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN WHEN WE PRAY?

JOINING US NOW TO ANSWER THESE AND OTHER QUESTIONS IS "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST SELLING AUTHOR FATHER JAMES MARTIN OF THE SOCIETY OF JESUS BETTER KNOWN AS THE JESUITS WHOSE MOST RECENT BOOK IS TITLED "LEARNING TO PRAY: A GUIDE FOR EVERYONE."

FATHER MARTIN, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, ALWAYS SO GREAT TO TALK TO YOU.

>> MY PLEASURE, RAFAEL.

GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> THE BOOK IS RIGHT BEHIND YOU, IT'S A WONDERFUL READ.

I RECOMMEND T BUT THE TITLE OF IT IS ALERTING TO PRAYER, A GUIDE TO EVERYONE.

THAT'S A PRETTY BOLD CLAIM.

DOES EVERYONE INCLUDE NONBELIEVERS?

SHOULD THEY READ THIS BOOK, TOO.

>> A NONBELIEVER COULD, I THINK A CURIOUS NONBELIEVER.

IT'S FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENTER INTO RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD BUT THAT CERTAINLY INCLUDES AGNOSTICS AND SEEKERS, PEOPLE ARE REALLY TRYING TO EXPLORE HOW TO COME TO KNOW GOD BETTER AND ALSO HOW TO LET GOD COME TO KNOW THEM.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, LET ME START WITH A QUESTION I ASKED IN THE INTRODUCTION, WHAT IS PRAYER?

IS THE ANSWER TO THAT OBVIOUS?

>> NO, I MEAN, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT DEAF IGS INS, ONE OF THE FAMOUS ONES IS A RAISING OF THE MIND AND HEART TO GOD, IT WAS TALKED ABOUT MUTUAL CONVERSATION.

I LIKE TO THINK OF IT AS A CONSCIOUS CONVERSATION WITH GOD.

IT'S A KIND OF BACK AND FORTH.

IT INCLUDES TALKING TO GOD, BUT IT ALSO INCLUDES IN A SENSE LISTENING TO GOD WHICH CAN SEEM MYSTERIOUS, BUT THAT'S LISTENING IN YOUR DAILY LIFE, FOR SCIENCE OF GOD'S PRESENCE AND LISTENING IN YOUR PRAYER AS WELL.

IT'S ABOUT A RELATIONSHIP.

>> SO YOU WRITE ABOUT MANY KINDS OF PRAYERS IN SOME DETAIL AND SOME OF THEM ARE FASCINATING.

SOME OF THEM I KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AND IF WE HAVE TIME I WILL ASK THEM ABOUT IT.

BUT THE ONE PRAYER THAT WE'RE FAMILIAR ABOUT IS THE PRAYER OF PETITION, THE ONE WE HAVE OFTEN HEARD ATHEISTS PRACTICE IN THE FOX HOLE.

YOU SAY THAT THE RAP OF THIS PRAYER IS THAT IT'S TOO OFTEN SELFISH OR CAN BE SELFISH.

FOR EXAMPLE, I MEAN, MIGHT IT NOT BE OFF PUTTING EVEN FOR GOD FOR US TO BE PRAYING FOR A RAISE OR TO GET INTO HARVARD OR TO GET AN A ON THE TEST OR EVEN TO FIND THE PERSON OF OUR DREAMS WHEN WE KNOW THAT AT THE VERY SAME TIME THERE ARE MILLIONS STARVING, THERE ARE THOUSANDS BEING TORTURED AND KILLED?

TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S OKAY TO ASK GOD FOR THINGS, IN THE OUR FATHER JESUS SAYS GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD, IT'S A PRAYER OF PETITION.

IT GETS A RAP BECAUSE PEOPLE SOMETIMES THINK IT'S SELFISH, BUT I THINK AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THOSE THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE, THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORSE OFF THAN YOU ARE, BUT IT'S PART OF ALSO BEING IN AN HONEST RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU REALLY WANT, I MEAN, THINK OF SOMETHING LIKE PRAYING FOR THE VACCINE, RIGHT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU WANT TO FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR FRIENDS, TO NOT PRAY ABOUT IT IN A SENSE WOULD BE A BLOCK BETWEEN YOU AND GOD BECAUSE IT WOULD BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, NOT SAYING SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY ON YOUR HEART.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE HONEST WITH GOD, BUT, AGAIN, AS YOU SAY, TO KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE.

>> FATHER, WHAT ABOUT GOD ANSWERING OR NOT ANSWERING YOUR PRAYERS?

YOU KNOW, IN THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT JESUS SAYS, AND YOU QUOTE THIS IN YOUR BOOK, ASK AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN YOU, SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND, KNOCK AND IT SHOULD BE OPENED TO YOU.

FOR EVERYONE WHO ASKS WILL RECEIVE, EVERYONE WHO SEEKS SHALL FIND AND WHO THOSE WHO KNOCK IT SHALL BE OPENED BUT FOR MOST OF US CHRISTIANS I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THAT'S NOT OUR EXPERIENCE OR AT LEAST DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE OUR EXPERIENCE.

THAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR PRAYERS DON'T SEEM TO BE ANSWERED.

WHAT'S YOUR ANSWER TO THAT.

>> >> I THINK THAT IS FAIR TO SAY.

I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT AND CHRISTIANS AND OTHER PEOPLE OF FAITH GRAPPLE WITH THAT.

IF YOU PRAY FOR SOMEONE NOT TO DIE AND THEY DIE OR NOT TO GET SICK AND THEY GET SICK IT SEEMS LIKE YOUR PRAYERS HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED.

I LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT REASONS FOR THAT OR THE EXPLANATIONS FOR THAT.

I THINK THE MOST HONEST EXPLANATION IS THAT IT'S A MYSTERY.

WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHY SOME PRAYERS SEEM TO BE ANSWERED AND SOME PRAYERS SEEM NOT TO BE ANSWERED, BUT THE KEY IS CAN YOU STILL BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT GOD EVEN IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND GOD?

I THINK A LOT OF PRAYERS ABOUT HONESTY, IT'S ABOUT TRUSTING GOD AND THEN ULTIMATELY IT'S ABOUT ACCEPTANCE WITH WHATEVER COMES.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS IT REALLY IS A MYSTERY.

>> SO, FATHER, WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN WHEN WE PRAY?

WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE OUR EXPERIENCE?

>> WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I WROTE THE BOOK BECAUSE I THINK MOST PEOPLE THEY SIT DOWN, THEY CLOSE THEIR EYES AND THEY FEEL LIKE NOTHING HAPPENS AND THEY SAY, WELL, I GUESS I'M NOT MADE FOR PRAYER, BUT IN THE BOOK I TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS THAT CAN COME UP IN YOUR PRAYER.

IF YOU ARE PRAYING ABOUT A SCRIPTURE PASSAGE MAYBE EMOTIONS WILL COME UP, DESIRES MAYBE TO FOLLOW GOD MORE CLOSELY, INSIGHTS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN PRAYER, FEELINGS LIKE CALM IF YOU'RE PRAYING IN A STRESSFUL MOMENT AND YOU GET A SENSE OF CALM, SOMETIMES WORDS AND PHRASES COME UP.

ALL THESE THINGS CAN COME UP IN PRAYER, THEY DON'T ALWAYS COME UP IN PRAYER AND THE KEY IS TO BE ABLE TO DISCERN WHAT'S COMING FROM GOD AND WHAT MIGHT JUST BE IN A SENSE WISH FULFILLMENT FOR MYSELF.

WITH DISCERNMENT PEOPLE CAN START TO IDENTIFY WHAT GOD'S VOICE IS IN THEIR LIFE AND PRAYER.

>> THAT WAS MY SECOND -- MY FOLLOWING QUESTION.

HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S NOT ALL PSYCHOLOGICAL?

HOW DO WE KNOW WE ARE NOT TALKING TO OURSELVES AND THAT IN FACT WE'RE CREATING A STORY ABOUT WHAT GOD IS TELLING US AND ABOUT OUR LIVES?

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT, WISHFUL THINKING?

>> AND THAT'S CERTAINLY A DANGER.

I MEAN, NOT EVERY -- YOU HAVE TO BE CLEAR, NOT EVERYTHING THAT POPS INTO YOUR HEAD IS SOME MESSAGE FROM GOD, RIGHT?

IF YOU'RE PRAYING ABOUT SOMEONE YOU ARE ANGRY AT AND YOU FEEL LIKE PUNCHING THEM IN THE FAITH THAT'S PROBABLY NOT COMING FROM FOD.

PEOPLE HAVE EXPERIENCED ENOUGH THE PEOPLE THAT I KNOW AND THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO ME FOR COUNSELING, THEY EXPERIENCE GOD'S VOICE IN THEIR PRAYER ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY IT.

FOR EXAMPLE, IT LEADS TO AN INCREASE OF LOVE AND CHARITY, IT MAKES SENSE IN THEIR LIVES, IT GIVES THEM CONSOLATION, IT'S LONG LASTING, RIGHT?

AND SO I THINK THE MORE YOU ARE ABLE TO DISCERN THAT THE MORE YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE THAT THE BETTER YOU ARE AT RECOGNIZING WHAT'S COMING FROM GOD AND WHAT MIGHT JUST BE WISH FULFILLMENT OR JUST IN MY OWN MIND.

WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR GOD DOES COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE IN PRAYER IN SOMETIMES VERY SUBTLE WAYS AND SOMETIMES VERY OVERT WAYS, TOO.

>> IN YOUR EXPERIENCE YOU'VE BEEN A JESUIT NOW FOR 30 YEARS, HAVE YOU EVER HAD THAT MOMENT WHEN YOU SAY, WAIT A MINUTE -- NOT JUST AM I TALKING TO MYSELF NOW OR HAVE I JUST BEEN TALKING TO MYSELF ALL THESE YEARS, IF I MAY ASK?

>> I DON'T SAY ALL THESE YEARS.

SOMETIMES IN MY PRAYER I HAVE TO SAY WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM?

PART OF IT IS ALSO LOOKING AROUND WHERE GOD IS ACTIVE IN YOUR DAILY LIFE AS WELL NOT JUST IN YOUR PERSONAL PRAYER.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN TIME YOU GET TO KNOW WHAT GOD'S VOICE IS LIKE.

FOR ME PRIMARILY GOD'S VOICE IS A VOICE OF CALM AND PEACE AND SORT OF HOPE.

I OFTEN SAY IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC, YOU KNOW, GOD'S VOICE IS THAT VOICE OF HOPE.

SO IF YOU'RE FEELING THAT INTERIORLY YOU CAN TRUST THAT.

THE VOICE THAT'S NOT COMING FROM GOD IS THE VOICE OF DESPAIR LIKE EVERYTHING IS HOPELESS.

THAT'S A VERY SIMPLE ILLUSTRATION OF HOW WE CAN KIND OF DISCERN WHAT GOD'S VOICE IS.

>> AND CAN WE DISCERN IF WE ACCEPT THAT THERE IS A SPIRITUAL DIMENSION THAT WE ARE IN COMMUNICATION WITH, CAN WE ALWAYS DISCERN THAT IT'S COMING -- THAT THE VOICE THAT WE'RE HEARING, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, IS COMING FROM GOD RATHER THAN FROM WHAT I THINK THE JESUITS CALL THE EVIL SPIRIT?

BECAUSE THE EVIL SPIRIT OR THE EVIL ONE IS VERY WISE, HE KNOWS HOW TO LIE.

>> YEAH, NO, I MEAN, THAT'S WHY THEY CALL SATAN THE PRINCE OF LIES.

YEAH, IT IS, WITH PRACTICE.

AGAIN, IT'S AN ART MORE THAN A SCIENCE, BUT, AGAIN, TO USE THE PANDEMIC IMAGE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE PRAYING AND, YOU KNOW, ONE DAY YOU FEEL LIKE EVERYTHING IS HOP HOPELESS, THIS IS AWFUL, I'M NEVER GOING TO SUCCEED, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO SORT OF SURMOUNT THIS, AND YOU FEEL LOW AND KIND OF DESPAIRING AND HOPELESS, I WOULD SAY THAT IS NOT WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT GOD.

SO THAT VOICE DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT'S COMING FROM GOD.

IF THE NEXT DAY YOU HAVE THE SENSE OF UPLIFT AND, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING CONSOLING TO YOU AND SOMETHING ENCOURAGING AND YOU FEEL A SENSE OF HOPE AND I CAN GET THROUGH THIS, THAT'S WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT GOD.

GOD IS A VOICE OF HOPE.

GOD HAS GOOD PLANS FOR US.

SO WE ALSO FIT WITH -- WE FIT WHAT WE HEAR IN PRAYER WITH WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT GOD.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER WAY OF KIND OF COMING TO UNDERSTAND.

AND EVENTUALLY YOU RECOGNIZE THAT VOICE IN YOURSELF.

>> WHEN I WAS READING THIS IN YOUR BOOK I WAS THINKING OF THAT FAMOUS PICTURE OF THE ANTI-CHRIST WHO LOOKS JUST LIKE JESUS CHRIST, IN FACT, IT WASN'T UNTIL VERY RECENTLY THAT I REALIZED IT WAS THE ANTI-CHRIST, WHICH IS TO SAY MAYBE THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE TOLD ARE VERY SIMILAR TO GOOD THINGS OR THINGS THAT YOU BELIEVE ARE GOOD, STEERING YOU IN THE WRONG PLACE WHERE YOU MAY THINK IS THE RIGHT PLACE.

>> WELL, AND THAT'S WHY WHERE ST. IGNATIUS THE FOUNDER OF JESUITS SAYS THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE TO SEE WHERE YOU'VE BEEN LED.

IF YOU ARE LED DOWN THAT GARDEN PATH AND YOU END UP IN A BAD SPOT BY LISTENING TO THE WRONG, YOU KNOW, IMPULSELESS WITHIN YOU, YOU HAVE TO SAY, LOOK, I KNOW WHERE THIS LEADS, I'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE AND I'M NOT GOING TO GO THE NEXT TIME I'M TEMPTED THAT WAY.

SO, YEAH, I MEAN, AS MY CURRENT SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR LIKES TO SAY, YEAH, I MEAN, ON THE SURFACE IT SEEMS GOOD, SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT AREN'T GOOD FOR US BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WOULD REJECT THEM.

IF IT SEEMED BAD FOR US WE WOULD SAY NO.

A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE'RE SOMETIMES TEMPTED TO DO SEEM ON THE FACE OF THEM GOOD, BUT WHEN WE GO A LITTLE DEEPER WE REALIZE IT'S NOT GOOD FOR US OR OTHER PEOPLE.

>> SO WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE WHEN WE BEGIN TO ENGAGE IN SERIOUS PRAYER LIFE?

>> WELL, I THINK JUST THAT, IT'S KNOWING WHAT IS COMING FROM GOD, BUT IT'S ALSO TRUSTING THAT GOD WANTS TO BE IN IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU AND REALLY GIVING GOD IN A SENSE IS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND ALSO BEING OKAY WITH DRY TIMES.

FOR ME ONE OF THE LESSONS OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE IS THAT EVERYBODY FACES DRY TIMES IN PRAYER WHERE I SIT DOWN AND IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE MUCH IS HAPPENING.

IT'S LIKE ANY RELATIONSHIP, YOU'RE NOT GOING -- EVERY TIME YOU GO OUT WITH A FRIEND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ALL BELLS AND WHISTLES AND CONSTANT LAUGHTER, SOMETIMES IT WILL BE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ORDINARY.

AND PRAYER IS LIKE THAT, TOO.

SO JUST AS IN ANY RELATIONSHIP YOU HAVE TO SPEND TIME WITH IT, YOU HAVE TO BE OPEN, THE SAME WITH YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE SEVEN Ds, ONE IS DRYNESS, CAN YOU GIVE US SOME OF THE OTHER ONES.

>> >> IT'S DISCERNING BETWEEN STUFF LIKE DEPRESSION, DESOLATION, DESPAIR, DRYNESS.

A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE LUMP THOSE ALL TOGETHER.

THEY SAY BECAUSE MY PRAYER IS DRY I MUST BE DEPRESSED.

SOME PEOPLE ARE DEPRESSED, CLINICALLY DEPRESSED, CAN HAVE VERY RICH PRAYER LIVES.

IT'S MAKING SURE YOU'RE IDENTIFYING WHICH IS WHICH.

IT'S KIND OF IMPORTANT IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE.

>> I GUESS YOU TOUCHED ON THIS, BUT LET ME ASK IT ANYWAY.

YOU WRITE THAT PRAYER IS SUPPOSED TO CHANGE US, THAT IT SHOULD MOVE US INTO ACTION.

HOW SHOULD IT CHANGE US AND WHAT ACTION SHOULD IT MOVE US TO?

>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ARISTOTLE SAID WE BECOME LIKE THAT WHICH WE CONTEMPLATE.

IF YOU'RE SPENDING -- IMAGINE SPENDING TIME WITH JESUS FOR THE CHRISTIAN AND YOU WOULD HOPE THAT SPENDING TIME WITH JESUS WOULD MAKE YOU MORE CHRIST-LIKE.

MAKE YOU MORE LOVING.

I THINK SPENDING TIME WITH GOD FOR THE BELIEVER SHOULD ALSO DO THE SAME THING, SHOULD MAKE US MORE OPEN, MORE LOVING, MORE CHARITABLE.

WHAT HAPPENS IS GOD KIND OF MOVES US.

IF WE'RE REALLY OPEN TO PRAYER AND WE'RE PRAYING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE REFUGEES OR THE HOMELESS OR MIGRANTS AND WE FEEL OUR HEART MOVE, THAT'S GOD WORKING WITHIN US.

SO TO KIND OF PAY ATTENTION TO THAT AND LET GOD ACT WITHIN US AND RESPOND TO THAT.

YOU KNOW, SEE IT AS A CALL, AS AN INVITATION AND REALLY RESPOND SHOO SO IF SOMEONE WATCHING US RIGHT NOW IS INSPIRED BY THIS CONVERSATION, WANTS TO BEGIN PRAYER, WHERE SHOULD THEY ACTUALLY BEGIN?

>> I WOULD SAY BY TRUSTING THAT THAT DESIRE AND THAT INSPIRATION IS COMING FROM GOD.

RIGHT?

AND TO START OFF ON THE JOURNEY I THINK MY BOOK WILL HELP, LEARNING TO PRAY, BUT BY REALLY TRUSTING THAT IT IS AN INVITATION.

IT'S NOT JUST SIMPLY YOUR BEING CURIOUS OR BEING INTERESTED, IT'S GOD'S CALL TO YOU AND THAT MAKES IT MORE PROFOUND AND I THINK ALSO EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO TRUST.

>> AND IN LIKE 15 SECONDS, WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO WRITE THIS BOOK?

>> BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE THINK THAT PRAYER IS FOR THE OTHER PERSON OR THAT THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT HAVE TROUBLE PRAYING AND SO I WANTED TO SORT OF GIVE PEOPLE SOME COMFORT IN THEIR PRAYER LIFE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

FATHER MARTIN, THE BOOK IS "LEARNING TO PRAY: A GUIDE FOR EVERYONE."

I READ IT, IT MOVED ME AND I RECOMMEND IT STRONGLY.

FATHER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE ALWAYS.

♪ >> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN COOPY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.