>>> DESPITE THE STIGMA, HOMELESS PEOPLE ARE OFTEN VICTIMS OF CRIMES THEMSELVES AND MANY LIVE IN FEAR EVERY DAY.

A HOME LEST ACTIVIST WORKING DIRECTLY WITH CITY OFFICIALS TO FIX THE SHELTER SYSTEM SHARES HIS FIRSTHAND ACCOUNT OF LIFE ON THE STREETS.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G., BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONEL FOUNDATION AND BY -- ♪ >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

THE RECENT NEWS OF A SERIAL KILLER TARGETING HOMELESS PEOPLE HAVE LEFT NEW YORK CITY'S UNHOUSED POPULATION ON EDGE.

THOUGH A SUSPECT HAS BEEN TAKEN INTO CUSTODY, THIS INDIVIDUAL WAS FAR FROM THE ONLY DANGER HOMELESS NEW YORKERS OFTEN FACE.

LAST YEAR WAS THE DEADLIEST YEAR EVER RECORDED FOR THE HOMELESS POPULATION OF NEW YORK WITH 640 REPORTED DEATHS IN SHELTERS, HOSPITALS, AND ON THE STREETS.

AS MAYOR ADAMS ATTEMPTS TO TRANSITION THOSE CURRENTLY LIVING IN THE SUBWAY TO CITY SHELTERS THROUGH HIS SUBWAY SAFETY PLAN, HOMELESS ACTIVISTS ARE TAKING MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS.

ONE SUCH ACTIVIST, SHAM DABARON HAS STRUGGLED WITH HOMELESSNESS HIS ENTIRE LIFE.

HE IS NOW WORKING TO BETTER THE SHELTER SYSTEM FOR HIMSELF AND OTHERS AND HIS ADVOCACY HAS GARNERED THE ATTENTION OF MANY NOTABLE NEW YORKERS INCLUDING MAYOR ERIC ADAMS.

SHAM DABARON JOINS US NOW TO SHARE HIS INSPIRING STORY AND WHAT HE BELIEVES THE CITY MUST DO TO HELP ITS MOST VULNERABLE POPULATION.

SHAM, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS" AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> I'M GLAD TO BE HERE, APPRECIATE THE INVITE, AND LOOK FORWARD TO DISCUSSING THINGS WITH YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

NOW, FIRST, BEFORE WE GET INTO YOUR PERSONAL STORY AND THE WORK THAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING, I DO WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE KILLINGS THAT I MENTIONED IN THE INTRO, THAT THERE WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS SPECIFICALLY TARGETING HOMELESS MEN, AND WHILE HE HAS BEEN PICKED UP, DO YOU THINK THAT NEW YORK CITY IS DOING ENOUGH TO HELP SUPPORT AND PROTECT THE HOMELESS POPULATION?

>> WELL, TO BE 100% WITH YOU, THE REALITY IS THAT NEW YORK CITY HAS A HISTORY OF NOT REALLY CENTERING THE HOMELESS ISSUE IN A WAY THAT IT SHOULD BE CENTERING IT.

SO CLEARLY OUR PROTECTIONS AND OUR RIGHTS AS VULNERABLE PEOPLE, VULNERABLE MEMBERS OF THE POPULATION OFTENTIMES GO, YOU KNOW, UNADDRESSED.

AND OUT OF THE WAYS THE CITY OPERATES ARE LIKE PROVIDING BAND-AID SOLUTIONS THAT LEAVES THE WOUNDS THERE.

SO RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, WE HAD AN ADMINISTRATION, THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION UNDER THE DE BLASIO THAT THE HOMELESS CRISIS GREW AND GOT WORSE UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, HOMELESS PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS IN THE STREETS AND SINGLE ADULT HOMELESS PEOPLE, MEMBERS OF THE POPULATION.

SO IT'S LIKE THIS NEW MAYOR, MAYOR ADAMS HAS INHERITED A SERIOUS MESS, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS OVERNIGHT.

YOU KNOW, NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE'RE OUT HERE DOING THIS WORK AS ADVOCATES AND ACTIVISTS AND DIRECTLY IMPACTED PEOPLE, THE REALITY IS THAT IT'S SO COMPLEX, AND IT'S SO DEEPLY ROOTED, OBVIOUSLY, AND YOU KNOW, REALISTICALLY IN SYSTEMIC RACISM.

WHEN WE'RE ADDRESSING HOMELESSNESS, WE ALSO HAVE TO ADDRESS THE SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT PERMEATES OUR SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT FROM THE FEDERAL, STATE, AND CITY LEVEL.

>> WELL, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, DO YOU THINK THAT THE HOMELESS POPULATION GETS UNFAIRLY BLAMED FOR NOT ONLY BEING HOMELESS BUT THEN IN ADDITION BEING VICTIMS OF CRIMES THEMSELVES?

>> OH, YEAH, DEFINITELY.

THE LANGUAGE THAT IS USED, I MEAN, JUST -- I SAT IN MEETINGS WITH EVEN CITY ADMINISTRATORS.

THIS HAS GONE BACK FROM MY DAYS AT THE LUCERNE HOTEL, AND I WAS HORRIFIED AT THE WAY THEY DESCRIBED US, WHEN PEOPLE WERE ASKING EITHER LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS OR QUESTIONS BASED ON IGNORANCE MEANING LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, TO SIMPLY NOT KNOWING WHAT THE FACE OF HOMELESSNESS LOOKED LIKE.

BUT INSTEAD OF ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THAT THEY SPOKE OF US WAS -- REDUCED US DOWN, YOU KNOW, INTO SORT OF LIKE A DEHUMANIZED DESCRIPTION.

SO EVEN IF THE CITY ADMINI ADMINISTRATOR, THOSE WHO ARE THERE TO SERVE US ARE LOOKING AT US IN A WAY THAT IS DEHUMANIZING, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO SAY?

AND THEN MEDIA, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, MEDIA PLAYS A HUGE ROLE IN THIS BECAUSE THEY SENSATIONALIZE THINGS, AND A LOT OF TIMES IT'S INACCURATE INFORMATION AND IT MAKES US LOOK EXTREMELY BAD.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I TRY TO ARTICULATE THAT THIS PLAYS INTO THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO ARE ANTI-HOMELESS, AND IN SOME CASES, NOT NECESSARILY ALL, BUT SOME CASES ANTI-BLACK, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT -- IN NEW YORK CITY IN PARTICULAR, THE POPULATION OF PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, 90% OF THOSE ARE BLACK AND BROWN.

>> SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANT TO -- AGAIN, BEFORE WE GET TOO DEEP INTO THE ISSUES THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON, I ALSO WANT YOU TO SORT OF EXPLAIN FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER LIVED ON THE STREET AND WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT LIFE IS LIKE, WHAT IS ONE OF THE MORE DIFFICULT THINGS ABOUT BEING HOMELESS?

WHAT IS ONE OF THE GREATEST CHALLENGES THAT UNHOUSED NEW YORKERS FACE EVERY DAY?

>> WELL, LET ME SAY -- LET ME SAY THIS, YOU KNOW, I -- YOU KNOW, I GREW UP IN FOSTER CARE SINCE THE AGE OF 2.

I EXPERIENCED HOMELESSNESS AT THE AGE OF 10 FIRST STARTED EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, AND I -- I WAS PERMANENTLY DISCHARGED INTO THE STREETS WITH NO SAFETY NET AT THE AGE OF 12, SO JUST LOOK AT IT FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE.

ONE OF THE BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS IS ACCESS TO A HOME, TO SHELTER, TO A PLACE TO LIVE.

SO IF WE TAKE THAT AWAY FROM SOMEBODY OR IF THAT DOESN'T EXIST FOR SOMEBODY, THEN WHAT YOU HAVE THERE IS A DEHUMANIZING EXPERIENCE.

AND SO A LOT OF US THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, WE EXPERIENCE -- WE ARE LACKING ONE OF THE MOST BASIC NECESSITIES THAT WOULD MAKE A PERSON HUMAN AND WHOLE.

SO ALONG WITH THAT CAN COME A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER ISSUES.

FOR ME IN PARTICULAR, IT WAS MENTAL ILLNESS, YOU KNOW, GOING INTO DEPRESSION, WHICH PROGRESSED INTO A DEEP DEPRESSION, WHICH TURNED INTO A DESIRE TO COMMIT SUICIDE.

WITHOUT NO TREATMENT.

I WAS A CASUAL DRINKER, BUT IN THE EXPERIENCE OF HOMELESSNESS, IT EXACERBATED THAT DESIRE TO DRINK AND FIND A COPING MECHANISM, AND SO I BECAME AN ABUSER OF ALCOHOL, AND THAT DIDN'T HELP THE SITUATION.

SO BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT SERVICES AND WE'RE NOT APPROACHING HOMELESSNESS OR WE HAVEN'T BEEN APPROACHING HOMELESSNESS IN THE RIGHT WAY, IT BECOMES A FURTHER DEHUMANIZING PROCESS, AND THE WORST THING THAT I SEE IN THIS IS WHEN I DID TRY TO GET HELP AND I WAS THRUST INTO THE -- AND I WENT INTO THE SHELTER SYSTEM, IT WAS MORE DEHUMANIZING THAN THE STREETS.

>> WHEN YOU SAY IT WAS MORE DEHUMANIZING THAN THE STREETS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, AND I CAN GO ON AND ON WITH THAT, BUT I'M GOING TO KEEP IT SHORT.

>> WELL -- >> AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, LET'S SAY.

>> YEAH, SO FIRST OF ALL, JUST WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE INTAKE PROCESS, AND I'VE BEEN IN THE FAMILY SYSTEM AS WELL AS THE SINGLE ADULT SHELTER SYSTEM, AND BOTH SYSTEMS ARE SIMILAR IN HOW YOU'RE PROCESSED.

SO WALKING IN IS LIKE VOLUNTARILY WALKING INTO A PRISON.

YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THE CHECK POINT.

YOU'RE BEING TALKED AT LIKE YOU COMMITTED A CRIME OR DID SOMETHING WRONG OR LIKE YOU ARE LESS THAN AN ANIMAL.

YOU KNOW, THE WAY YOU'RE ADDRESSED.

THEY GIVE YOU A CARES NUMBER SIMILAR TO LIKE WHEN THEY GIVE YOU A NUMBER WHEN YOU'RE IN JAIL.

THE FOOD THAT THEY FEED YOU IS NOT NUTRITIOUS.

IT'S HORRIBLE, AND FOR A PERSON -- I'VE GOT TO ALWAYS SPEAK TO MY BLACK EXPERIENCE, BUT IF YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR SLAVE EXPERIENCE, I AUTOMATICALLY GET TRIGGERED AND THINK, WOW, THEY'RE FEEDING US LIKE THEY FED THE SLAVES.

SO THIS DEHUMANIZING EXPERIENCE AUTOMATICALLY SENDS A MESSAGE TO MY BRAIN TO LET ME THINK THAT I'M NOT WORTH BEING TREATED WITH RESPECT, WITH DIGNITY AND MAKES IT EASIER FOR ME TO SAY I NEED SOMETHING TO COPE.

I NEED SOMETHING TO PROCESS THIS.

THERE ARE NO -- IN THE TRADITIONAL SHELTER SYSTEM, THERE'S NO MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS ON SITE.

THERE'S NO ONE I CAN TALK TO.

THERE'S NOT EVEN A PEER SPECIALIST.

SO WHILE I'M GOING THROUGH THIS, I MAY WANT TO TALK TO SOMEBODY, BUT IT'S SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH A PERSON, LET'S SAY, THAT MAY HAVE YEARS OF TRAUMA, YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, JUST TRAUMA FROM THE HOMELESS EXPERIENCE, AND WHEN I'M TRYING TO GET HELP, I'M DENIED HELP.

I'M TOLD, YOU KNOW, GET UP AT 8:00 AND GO INTO THE STREETS.

JUST MAKE SURE YOU BACK BEFORE 10:00, OTHERWISE YOU'LL LOSE YOUR BED.

IT'S SO MANY THINGS WITH THE EXPERIENCE THAT ARE DEHUMANIZING.

WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE PHYSICAL STRUCTURES OF BEING IN B BARRACK LIKE SETTINGS, WHERE YOU HAVE ONE BED NEXT TO THE OTHER, WHERE YOU'RE PAROLING PEOPLE, 40% OF THE PAROLEES THAT ARE SENT FROM STATE PRISONS ARE COMING INTO SHELTERS, AND THEY'RE NOT EVEN GIVEN THE PROPER ENVIRONMENT TO GET ON THEIR FEET.

AND THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE DEALING WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS BUT NO TREATMENT ON SITE.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE DEALING WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES AND NO TREATMENT ON SITE, PEOPLE THAT ARE DEALING WITH YEARS OF TRAUMA WITH NO TREATMENT ON SITE.

THIS IS A POWDER KEG THAT LEADS TO A WHOLE LOT OF STUFF, AND IT DEFINITELY WILL NEGATIVELY IMPACT COMMUNITIES.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR IS TRYING TO GET THEM TO REIMAGINE WHAT THAT SHELTER EXPERIENCE SHOULD LOOK LIKE FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

>> WELL, THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING THAT YOU SAY YOU WANT PEOPLE TO REIMAGINE THE SHELTER EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING THESE DECISIONS HAVEN'T REALLY HAD THE SHELTER EXPERIENCE.

SO FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT AT LEAST THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS ADDRESSING THE HOMELESS OR THE UNHOUSED POPULATION IN NEW YORK IN TERMS OF SENSITIVITY TO A LOT OF THE ISSUES YOU JUST MENTIONED?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

LAST YEAR AROUND THIS TIME IN FEBRUARY, I DID A MAYOR CANDIDATE'S FORUM, FOR THE MAYORAL CANDIDATES THAT WERE RUNNING IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION.

OUR CURRENT MAYOR, ERIC ADAMS, WAS ONE OF THOSE PERSONS WHO PARTICIPATED, AND THERE HE SAID IN HIS ADMINISTRATION HE WOULD HAVE PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION, THAT WE WOULD HAVE A VOICE.

AND YOU KNOW, AFTER HE MADE THAT STATEMENT, PEOPLE WERE ASKING DO YOU BELIEVE LHIM?

YOU KNOW HOW THESE POLITICIANS ARE.

I DON'T KNOW, LET'S JUST SEE, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I EVEN PAID ATTENTION TO POLITICS, RIGHT?

BUT AFTER HE WON THE PRIMARY AND HE WENT ON TO ACTUALLY BE ELECTED AS THE MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY, HIS ADMINISTRATION REACHED OUT TO ME AND HAD ME JOIN HIS TRANSITION TEAM TO HELP SHAPE WHAT WOULD BECOME THE POLICIES THAT ADDRESS THE -- THAT ADDRESS HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS, NOT JUST HOMELESSNESS BUT HOUSING AS WELL, AND THAT'S THE COMMITTEE I SAT ON.

SO THAT WAS A GREAT STEP TO ACTUALLY TAKE A GUY WHO A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WAS SLEEPING ON A PARK BENCH IN HARLEM, WHO WAS WALKING AROUND WITH A BOTTLE OF BEER TO ACTUALLY HAVE ME THERE SHAPING POLICY, AND I WAS VERY ACTIVE IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

THAT IS AMAZING.

THEN FURTHER INTO HIS ADMINISTRATION WHEN HE DECIDED TO ROLL OUT THIS PUBLIC SAFETY PLAN TO ADDRESS -- ADDRESS THE HOMELESS POPULATION ON THE TRAIN -- ON THE SUBWAYS, HE REACHED OUT TO ME, NOT JUST TO JOIN A PRESS CONFERENCE, BUT TO ACTUALLY FIND OUT WHENAT I THOUT ABOUT IT AND TO OFFER SUGGESTIONS TO HELP SHAPE IT.

AND I DID THAT.

SO IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, THE ONE THING -- AND I LOOK AT PEOPLE THAT'S A PART OF HIS ADMINISTRATION.

HE'S CHOSEN SOME GREAT PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE ISSUES OF HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS FOR YEARS THAT HAVE REALLY, YOU KNOW, CENTERED ON THE ISSUES AND THAT ARE ALIGNED WITH ME AND MY VIEWS, AND THEY ALSO, LIKE THE CHIEF HOUSING -- LIKE HIS CHIEF HOUSING OFFICER, JESSICA KATZ, THEY ASSURE THAT I HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE, A VOICE IN THE DISCUSSION AND A HAND IN THE DECISION MAKING, AND SO I SEE THAT THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU JUST SAID THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THESE DISCUSSIONS.

NOT JUST HAVING SHAMS THERE, BUT HAVING PEOPLE THAT HAVE LIVED EXPERIENCE AT THAT TABLE HELPING TO SHAPE POLICY AND HELPING TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THEM.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WE COULD DO, AND THAT DIFFERS FROM THE PREVIOUS WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE.

>> WELL, FOR THE -- AT LEAST THE RESOURCES THAT THE CITY HAS RIGHT NOW, A LOT OF THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SOME OF THE POLICIES IS GOING TO INVOLVE THE UNHOUSED POPULATION HAVING FURTHER INTERACTIONS WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WHICH HAS NOTORIOUSLY BEEN KRICRITICIZED BEING ROUGH, LET'S SAY, UNNECESSARILY ROUGH AT TIMES.

SO I WANT TO GET FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE ANY INTERACTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE HAD WITH THE NYPD, AND DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S CORRECT OR EVEN FAIR FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS TO ALSO BE DOING WHAT REALLY SOUNDS LIKE A SOCIAL SERVICE OUTREACH OF HELPING PEOPLE GET OFF THE STREET.

>> YES, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AS WELL.

WELL, LET ME SAY THIS, SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT BECAUSE I'M THE HOMELESS HERO AND I'M DOING ALL THIS WORK THAT I'M NOT THE SAME PERSON THAT HAS BEEN HOMELESS FOR -- SINCE I WAS 10 YEARS OLD ON AND OFF.

THEY FORGET THAT IT'S GENERATIONS OF -- OR YOU KNOW, DECADES OF TRAUMA, AND SO YOU DON'T ERASE THAT TRAUMA JUST BY BEING ON A NEWS SHOW OR IN THE MEDIA OR, YOU KNOW, GETTING LITTLE LIKES ON TWITTER.

NO, THOSE TRAUMAS STILL LIVE WITH ME.

I HAVE TO CONSTANTLY, ESPECIALLY BEING AN AFRICAN AND HAVING TO RELIVE SOME OF THE TELLING OF THESE EXPERIENCES, I HAVE TO RELIVE THESE TRAUMAS, AND ONE OF THE MOST TRAUMATIC EVENTS WAS ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERING POLICE IN THE SUBWAY UNDER THE DE BLASIO ADMINISTRATION, WHAT HE HAD CALLED THE INTERVENTION PROGRAM.

AND WHEN I ENCOUNTERED THEM THEY ASKED IF THEY COULD HELP ME, AND I SUBMITTED TO THE HELP.

I SAID YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A COLD NIGHT AND I JUST WAS LIKE, LOOK, IT'S TOO COLD TO BE RIDING THE TRAINS.

AND YOU KNOW, I WAS KIND OF INTIMIDATED BECAUSE THERE WAS A TON OF COPS, BUT AS I SUBMITTED TO THE HELP, THEY ASKED FOR MY I.D., AND THEY STARTED RUNNING FOR WARRANTS.

SO I'M LIKE, UH-OH, DID I HOP THE TRAIN ONE DAY?

DID I GET CAUGHT WITH LIKE AN OPEN CONTAINER?

I DON'T KNOW.

SO I'M -- YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST TRIGGERING A FEAR THAT I MIGHT BE ARRESTED.

THANK GOODNESS NO WARRANT CAME UP, BUT LONG STORY SHORT, I ENDED UP OUT OF FEAR AGREEING TO GO WITH THEM, AND I WAS PLACED IN HANDCUFFS, PUT IN THE PADDY WAGON, BEING TOLD I'M NOT BEING ARRESTED.

THEY'RE HELPING ME, AND I CAN'T PROCESS WHY -- HOW ARE YOU HELPING ME IF YOU'RE PUTTING ME IN HANDCUFFS.

THEY TOOK ME TO A PRECINCT, TO A TRANSIT PRECINCT, AND THEN YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT REALLY FUNNY.

IT'S ALWAYS TRAUMATIC TO TALK ABOUT IT, WHICH I DON'T REALLY GO INTO IT TOO MUCH, BUT I DON'T MIND SHARING.

I HAVE SPOKEN ON THIS, BUT THEY TOOK ME INTO A STATION WHERE THE CAPTAIN THERE DESCRIBED ME AS A PERP.

HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAD THEIR CAMERAS ON, AND IN MY MIND I SAID I WASN'T SLEEPING ON THE TRAIN.

I WAS WALKING ON THE PLATFORM ABOUT TO TRANSFER.

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING THAT WOULD WARRANT A TICKET, A CONFRONTATION OR ANYTHING, ANY INTERACTION.

THEY JUST ASSUMED THAT I WAS HOMELESS.

THEY WERE CORRECT, AND WHEN THEY OFFERED TO HELP, I OUT OF FEAR DIDN'T WANT TO TRIGGER THEM AND THINK THAT I WAS THERE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, SO I SUBMITTED TO THE HELP, BUT NOW I'M FACING A CAPTAIN WHO IS TELLING HIS OFFICERS THEY HAVE TO KEEP THEIR CAMERA ON, THEIR BODY CAMERA ON, BODY CAM, AND THEN THEY ASK ME TO REMOVE MY LACES.

THEY TOOK MY PROPERTY AND PLACED ME IN A CELL FOR AN HOUR.

I DIDN'T BREAK THE LAW.

I WASN'T ASLEEP.

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

I DON'T CARRY LUGGAGE OR ANYTHING.

THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WOULD WARRANT THEM TO DO THIS.

IS THIS WHAT INTERVENTION IS?

IS THIS WHAT HELPING THE HOMELESS IS?

NO.

I WAS FURTHER TRAUMATIZED IN THIS HOMELESS EXPERIENCE BY GOING THROUGH THAT.

SO THAT'S A LIVED EXPERIENCE, AND I -- YOU KNOW, I SAT IN THAT CELL FOR LIKE AN HOUR NOT KNOWING, AND THIS IS -- YOU KNOW, I'M FROM THE STREETS OF NEW YORK, AND MY PERSONAL ENCOUNTERS AS A BLACK MAN HAVE NOT ALWAYS BEEN GOOD WHEN ENCOUNTERING POLICE, HENCE MY FEARS.

NOW BEING IN A CELL IN THE ERA OF SANDRA BLAND, YOU KNOW, AND OTHERS WHO HAVE DIED WHILE IN CUSTODY, I WAS EXTREMELY FEARFUL.

AND SO, YOU KNOW -- YOU KNOW, I COOPERATED, OF COURSE.

I DIDN'T COMMIT A CRIME, BUT AFTER AN HOUR THEY TOOK ME TO A DROPOFF CENTER AND PUT ME RIGHT IN THE SAME CONGREGATE DEATH TRAP THAT THEY CALL A SHELTER THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO GO IN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

NOW THIS TIME THEY SAID IF YOU DON'T STAY HERE, WE'RE GOING TO -- WE'RE GOING TO TICKET YOU OR YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO COURT, AND IF YOU MISS THE COURT, THAT CAN TURN INTO A WARRANT.

SO THE NEXT TIME THAT -- WHEREAS THIS TIME THEY SAID I WASN'T BEING ARRESTED, THE NEXT TIME OBVIOUSLY THEY WOULD HAVE REASONS TO ARREST ME.

SO THIS WAS ALSO A WAY THAT WAS CRIMINALIZING ME INSTEAD OF HELPING ME.

THE ONLY REASON -- I'M SORRY.

>> NO, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE, AS I'M LISTENING TO YOUR STORY, THOUGH, WHAT I'M HEARING YOU DESCRIBE IS WHAT SEEMS LIKE A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHY PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS IN NEW YORK WOULDN'T WANT TO INTERACT WITH POLICE OFFICERS WHO ARE TASKED WITH GETTING THEM OFF THE STREETS.

SO I'M JUST -- I'M WONDERING BECAUSE SO OFTEN WHEN WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT SEVERAL TIMES ON "METROFOCUS," IT USUALLY ENDS UP THAT THE CITY WILL DEEM THAT THE POLICE OFFICERS ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO -- AND EVEN MAYOR ADAMS HIMSELF HAS PHRASED IT AS CLEAN UP THE STREETS.

>> WELL, NO, I THINK WHAT HE WAS SAYING WAS MORE SO CLEAN UP THE SUBWAYS, RIGHT?

AND THE THING IS, IF YOU -- IF ANYBODY'S READ THE SAFETY PLAN, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT HE'S ADDRESSING IN THAT PLAN.

SO ONE, HE'S ADDRESSING THE NEED FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS TO HAVE SERVICES AND HAVE CLINICIANS COME AND MEET WITH THEM.

SO HIS IDEA AND THE GOVERNOR'S IDEA IS TO PUT A TEAM, WHICH DOESN'T EXIST AND HASN'T EXISTED BEFORE, TO PUT A TEAM THAT CONSISTS OF A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL AND A -- AND OUTREACH WORKERS THAT ARE MORE SO PEERS, LIKE WHAT WE CALL CREDIBLE MESSENGERS, AND ALSO, NOW THIS IS WHERE IT MA MAY DIFFER WITH A LOT OF ADVOCATES AND ACTIVISTS WHERE THERE WOULD BE THE PRESENCE OF A UNIFORMED OFFICER, BUT THEY WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST LINE OF ENGAGEMENT.

THE ENGAGEMENT WOULD COME FROM THOSE TWO PARTIES.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S CALLED THE SOS TEAM OR WHATEVER, BUT THERE'S A TERM FOR IT.

SO THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE THE ONES TO DEAL WITH THOSE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS AND OFFER THE SUPPORT.

WHEN HE SPOKE OF HAVING OFFICER THERE IS ENFORCING CERTAIN LAWS AND STUFF, YOU KNOW, FIRST -- NOT -- I DON'T EVEN WANT TO SAY ENFORCING RULES.

HE WAS SPEAKING TO A DIFFERENT ELEMENT THAT EXISTS ON THE SUBWAYS, AND THAT'S REAL AND PRESENT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO MAY BE USING DRUGS ON THE SUBWAY OR JUST DOING DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO THAT'S -- THOSE WERE TWO THINGS ADDRESSED IN A SAFETY PLAN, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE SAME THING.

>> MM-HMM.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK PEOPLE HAVE MISSED IN WHAT WAS BEING PRESENTED, AND I THINK IT PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE EXPRESSED MORE, AND WHAT I WOULD WANT FOR US TO DO IS HAVE MORE, YOU KNOW, WHAT MY GOAL IS TO HOLD THE ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE TO ENSURE THAT THESE SAFETY TEAMS CONSIST OF THE RIGHT DYNAMIC OF PEOPLE THAT CAN PROPERLY ADDRESS PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

NO, I DO NOT THINK THAT POLICE OFFICERS HAVE THE TRAINING TO ACTUALLY GO AND ENGAGE WITH HOMELESS NEW YORKERS, BUT I'M NOT OPPOSED TO HAVING THEIR PRESENCE WHEN NEEDED BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN SITUATIONS WHERE IT MIGHT REQUIRE THE NEED FOR AN OFFICER.

SO IF THEIR PRESENCE ON THE SUBWAYS IS THERE AND THEY'RE CALLED UPON WHEN NEEDED, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE STATE AND THE CITY FUND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRAINED AS THEY HAVE PUT IN THAT PUBLIC SAFETY PLAN.

WE NEED -- THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GETTING INTO A PROBLEM THAT, I MEAN, WE'RE DISCUSSING IT NOW, BUT I UNDERSTOOD THIS MYSELF BEING SOMEONE WHO'S EXPERIENCED MENTAL ILLNESS, AND FIND IT HARD GETTING A PROPER PSYCHIATRIST.

>> MM-HMM.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH IS THE DEFUNDING OF MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES.

SO FROM THE STATE LEVEL, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO ACTUALLY -- WE'RE LOSING THAT.

WE'RE LOSING THE PROFESSIONALS.

THERE'S WAITING LISTS JUST TO SEE A PSYCHIATRIST.

SO AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE DYING, THAT ARE BEING KILLED BY PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY BAD PEOPLE, BUT THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT BEING TREATED FOR MENTAL ILLNESS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, JUST THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM WHEN WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES PLACED WHERE THEY NEED TO BE.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT.

SO WE DEFINITELY NEED -- ONE OF -- I'M OUT THERE IN THE STREETS ALL THE TIME.

I'M GOING TO SUBWAYS AND I DEAL WITH MY POPULATION, AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I'M EFFECTIVE IS BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM, BUT THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE I REALIZE I DON'T THINK YOU CAN HANDLE THIS ONE, YOU BETTER FALL BACK, YOU KNOW?

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS, THE FIRST THING, THE ONLY -- I'D SAY THE REAL REASON WHY I'M ABLE TO BE EFFECTIVE IS BECAUSE THE FOUNDATION OF ALL I DO IS BASED IN LOVE, IS BASED IN COMPASSION, IS BASED IN SAYING, YO, MAN, I'VE BEEN YOU.

I KNOW WHERE YOU COME FROM.

WHEN I HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, YOU KNOW, IT TURNS INTO A DIFFERENT THING, AND I CAN CALM PEOPLE DOWN.

I CAN SAY, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, AND THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET YOU SOME HELP.

>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, BUT SHAM DABARON OR DA HOMELESS HERO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING TIME TO NOT ONLY SHARE YOUR PERSONAL STORY BUT THE WORK YOU'VE BEEN DOING TO MAKE NEW YORK A BETTER CITY FOR EVERYONE.

THANK YOU.

>> AND THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE IT.

THANKS FOR AMPLIFYING THE VOICES OF HOMELESS NEW YORKERS.

AND HOMELESS PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.

♪ >>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANKUNY FUND, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY.