>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN.

BERNARD AND BEDEES SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO METRO FOCUS.

I'M JACK FORD.

BACK IN SEPTEMBER WHEN ROCHESTER POLICE FINALLY RELEASED THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT LED TO THE DEATH OF DANIEL CRUDE, PEOPLE WERE HORRIFIED BY WHAT THEY SAW.

THE FOOTAGE REVEALED WHAT HAS NOW BECOME AN ALL TOO FAMILIAR AND TOO PAINFUL SIGHT.

POLICE USING EXCESSIVE FORCE AGAINST AN UNARMED BLACK MAN RESULTING IN HIS DEATH.

IN THIS DISTURBING VIDEO HE CAN BE SEEN NAKED, HANDCUFFED, HOODED, LYING ON THE GROUND.

AFTER THE FOOTAGE WAS RELEASED.

PROTESTS ERUPTED IN ROCHESTER.

TONIGHT AS PART OF OUR CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA WE'RE PLEASED TO BE JOINED BY LEAD PASTOR AND PRIEST AT SPIRITIS CRISTIE CHURCH IN ROCHESTER, THE REVEREND MIRA FWROUN TALK ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE AFTERMATH.

PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH US.

THANK YOU.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE AFTERMATH.

LET ME ASK ABOUT YOUR.

YOU LIVED THERE IN ROCHESTER.

YOU EXPERIENCED IT.

YOU TALKED TO PEOPLE.

WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF THE STATE OF ISSUES FOCUSING ON RACIAL EQUALITY, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO POLICING IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM?

>> SO ROCHESTER'S ALWAYS HAD KIND OF A DUALISTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH RACIAL JUSTICE.

HOME OAF FREDERICK DOUGLAS AND SUSAN B. ANTHONY AND ALSO A AREA WHERE THERE WERE KKK MEETINGS IN OUR SUBURBAN AREAS.

THERE'S BEEN POLICING ISSUES WITHIN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR FOR A LONG TIME.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE UP RISINGS OF '64 THAT CENTERED POLICING ISSUES WITHIN THE PLAQUE AND BROWN COMMUNICATE.

WE WERE JUST HITTING THE STREETS AND COMING BACK FROM PROTESTING AROUND WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD.

AND THEN DANIEL PRUDE HAPPENED.

SO WHEN DANIEL PRUDE WAS KILLED IT REALLY EXACERBATED THE RACIAL DIVIDE THAT WAS ALREADY THERE BETWEEN THE POLICING SYSTEM AND BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE FELT SAFE ENOUGH WHEN POLICE CAME INTO OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> ONCE THE PROTESTS GOT UNDER WAY.

I MENTIONED THAT YOU AND OTHER COMMUNITY LEADERS WERE WORKING TO KEEP THEM PEACEFUL.

AND YOU WERE WORKING WITH AUTHORITIES.

WORKING WITH THE PROTESTERS.

AND I WANT TO ASK ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT TOOK PLACE HERE.

ONE WAS, YOU ARE ENGAGING WITH ELDERS.

TO BE PART OF THE PROTEST MOVEMENT AND TO GUIDE IT AND PROVIDE WISDOM TO IT.

TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT NOTION OF ELDERS.

AND WHAT THEY CAN SKPROEFD WHAT THEY DID PROVIDE IN TERMS OF THE PROTESTS HERE.

>> AND THE ELDERS IS THE MODEL FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

THE AS CULTURAL MODEL WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A TIME IN HISTORY WHERE BLACK PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE DOMESTIC TERROR AND JUST REALLY FEELING LIKE THEY HAD TO ATTEND -- WE HAD TO ATTEND TO OUR OWN NEEDS.

WE HAD ELD ERLS IN OUR COMMUNITIES THAT KNEW HOW TO WALK ALONGSIDE OF US, HELP US TO DISCHARGE THE PAIN WE WERE FEELING, HOLD THAT PAIN, AND MADE SURE WE WERE SAFE AND KNEW THAT WE WERE NOT ALONE.

SO THAT CULTURAL MODEL REALLY IS TRANSFERABLE.

SO IN THE MOVEMENT, THERE WERE TWO FRIENDS OF MINE.

SHIRLEY AND -- SHIRLEY -- DRAWING A BLANK ON HIS NAME.

>> THAT IS WHAT A CAMERA DOES TO YOU.

HAPPENS TO ME ALL THE TIME.

YOU HAVE IT RIGHT THERE BUT YOU ARE LOOKING IN THE CAMERA AND WON'T COME OUT.

>> SHIRLEY AND JIM THOMPSON WHO PROPOSED THE ELDER MODEL THE DAY BEFORE THAT DAY IN SEPTEMBER.

BUT THERE WERE ONLY ABOUT FIVE ELDERS THAT SHOWED UP.

SO I ACTUALLY PROPOSED WE REINVIGORATE THAT MODEL, BRING IT BACK FOR THAT NEXT PROTEST ON THAT SUNDAY.

AND I PUT OUT A CALL FOR 50 ELDERS.

AND THEN A HUNDRED HELDERS SHOWED UP FROM THE COMMUNITY AND ANSWERED THAT CALL FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE.

SO WE WERE ABLE TO PUT ELDERS AT THE FRONT OF THIS PROTEST LINE.

TO JUST COME ALONGSIDE OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT WAS HURTING, THAT WAS TRAUMATIZED, RIGHT, THAT WAS GRIEVING.

SO THE ELDERS KNEW HOW TO HOLD THEIR PAIN, HOW TO COME ALONGSIDE OF IT, HOW TO HELP THEM DISCHARGE AND HOW TO STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH THEM.

AND IT IS A VERY EFFECTIVE NONNEN VIOLENT MODEL THAT ALLOWS THE COMMUNITY TO MONITOR ITSELF, TO HOLD ITSELF, AND TO NOT HAVE TO BE AGGRESSIVELY POLICED BY A POLICE FORCE IN RIOT GEAR.

SO WE INTRODUCED THE ELDER MODEL INTO THE PROTEST IN A LARGER WAY.

AND IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE.

>> STANDING IN SOLIDARITY WITH THEM.

NOT JUST FIGURATIVELY BUT LITERALLY STANDING ESSENTIALLY BETWEEN THE POLICE AND THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PROTESTING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT CHANGED -- I THINK IT CHANGED THE TRAJECTORY, REALLY OF THE POLICING RESPONSE TO PROTESTS.

BECAUSE ONCE YOU INTRODUCE THE MODEL AND YOU SEE IT, YOU CAN'T UNSEE IT.

PRIOR TO THAT -- >> IT WAS SUCH A VALUABLE IMAGE, I THINK.

AND CERTAINLY FOR OTHERS MOVING FORWARD.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU HEARD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAY LOOK, THIS WAS PRESENTED TO A GRAND JURY, AND THE GRAND JURY DECLINED TO RETURN ANY CHARGES AGAINST THE POLICE OFFICERS?

>> YEAH.

I WAS HURT.

I WAS ANGRY.

AND -- AND I ALSO FELT LIKE "I'M NOT SURPRISED."

RIGHT?

BECAUSE WE HAVE -- IN ROCHESTER WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS 18, 19 BLUEPRINT OF POLICING THAT WAS PATTERNED OFF OF SLAVE PATROLS.

SO THAT BLUEPRINT HAS PERMITTED ALL KINDS OF HARM AND TRAUMA AND AGGRESSION AND VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK AND BROWN BODIES, WITHOUT ANY ACCOUNTABILITY.

NOT ONLY IN ROCHESTER BUT ACROSS THE NATION, AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND SO I WAS HOPING -- WE'RE ALL HOPING, HOLDING OUR BREATH THINKING THAT MAYBE WE WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

BUT WE WEREN'T DIFFERENT.

AND IN FACT, YOU KNOW, I FELT LIKE THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE DIDN'T DO ENOUGH TO TRY TO GET AT AN INDICTMENT ON THE OFFICERS FOR DANIEL PRUDE'S KILLING.

AND THAT WAS FRUSTRATING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TIRED OF THAT KIND OF ENDING.

EVERY TIME IT IS THAT KIND OF ENDING.

>> AND THE AFTERMATH OF THE DANIEL PRUDE KILLING, AND I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN CONVERSATIONS, TAKING PLACE.

YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, COMMUNITY LEADER, GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS.

TELL US ABOUT SOME OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND WHERE THEY SEEM TO BE GOING, IF ANYWHERE.

>> YEAH, SO WE'VE BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS.

WE'VE BEEN CALLING ON OUR MAYOR AND OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS TO WORK WITH US TO CREATE A NEW POLICING BLUEPRINT.

ONE THAT IS NOT FROM 1819 THAT SAYS WHAT DO WE DO WITH BLACK PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT IN THE WORLD, HOW DO WE PATROL AND CONTAIN THEM, BUT A NEW BLUEPRINT.

A 21st CENTURY BLUEPRINT THAT ACTUALLY SAYS HOW TO WE GET TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND THRIVING COMMUNITIES?

IF WE ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS WE GET THE RIGHT BLUEPRINT AND WE CAN CREATE PUBLIC SAFETY FOR EVERYBODY.

RIGHT NOW BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT SAFE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES UNDER THIS BLUEPRINT OF POLICING AND THE WAY IN WHICH IT ALLOWS CERTAIN POLICIES AND PRACTICES AND LAWS THAT REALLY BUBBLE WRAP AND PRESERVE POLICING IN A WAY THAT THEY DON'T EVER HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE HARM DONE IN BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

AND SO WE ARE PUSHING THE BLUEPRINT.

WHAT WE NEED THOUGH IS FOR OUR STATE POLITICIANS TO STAND UP AND TO PUT FORTH LEGISLATION, TO ROLL BACK THINGS LIKE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, THINGS LIKE THE TAILOR LAW.

THINGS LIKE THE TRIBUNAL LAW.

WE NEED THOSE THINGS CHANGED SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY ACROSS THE BOARD.

BECAUSE IN OUR COMMUNITY, WHEN THERE IS A WHITE VICTIM AND A WHITE OFFICER, WE SEEM TO BE ABLE TO GET INDICTMENTS AND FIRINGS AND CHARGES AND POLICE REMOVED.

WHEN IT IS A BLACK VICTIM WE SEEM TO GET NOTHING EXCEPT A NO.

SO WE'RE HOPING TO REALLY CHANGE THAT ON THE GROUND.

>> CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU NOT JUST AS A COMMUNITY LEADER BUT MAYBE MORE IMPORTANTLY AS A FAITH LEADER, SAID TO YOUR CONGREGATION.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY PERHAPS THE YOUNGER MEMBERS OF YOUR CONGREGATION.

WHAT DID YOU SAY TO THEM AFTER THE INCIDENT WITH PRUDE AND AFTER THE GRAND JURY DECIDED NOT TO RUSH ARETURN ANY CHARGES.

>> I'VE BEEN TALK TO BE MY CONGREGATION ABOUT RIGHT ALONG ABOUT THE NEED TO P CHANGE SYSTEMIC RACISM.

AND WE PREACH THIS INTO OUR CONGREGATION.

WE HAVE A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO END OPPRESSION MORE PEOPLE.

TO STAND WITH THE VULNERABLE, RIGHT, TO WORK FOR JUSTICE AND THAT IT IS A LABOR OF LOVE WHEN WE DO THAT.

SO THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE SAID TO MY CONGREGATION.

WE'VE CREATED A RACIAL JUSTICE PAGE AND PUT A LOT OF EFFORT INTO EDUCATING OUR CONGREGATION AND I THINK WE'VE ALSO SAILED IT IS GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US.

ALL HANDS ON DECK IF WE'RE GOING CHANGE POLICING IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEN WE NEED EVERYBODY'S PARTICIPATION AND BUY-IN INTO CREATING A MORE JUST COMMUNITY.

>> LAST QUESTION FOR YOU.

GOT ABOUT TWO MINUTES HERE.

AS WE KNOW IN THE PAST SADLY OFTEN TIMES WE NEED TRAGEDY TO BE A SPRINGBOARD FOR PROGRESS.

WE'VE SEEN MARTYRDOM IN THE PAST.

IN THE CASE OF EMMETT TILL, THE YOUNG MAN FROM CHICAGO, MURDERED IN MISSISSIPPI IN THE 1950S, DESCRIBED OFTEN TIMES AS A SUPERFICIAL LAMB OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

ARE YOU AT ALL OPTIMISTIC IN TERMS OF HEALING AND CHANGE IN ROCHESTER THAT MAYBE THIS MIGHT BE THE MOMENT THAT WILL HELP THAT PROCESS?

>> YEAH, SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON THAT.

I ALWAYS -- I'M A HOPEFUL PERSON.

SO I HOPE, RIGHT, THAT WE SEIZE THIS MOMENT.

RIGHT?

AND THAT DANIEL PRUDE'S LIFE WAS NOT TAKEN IN VAIN.

WE HAD A 9-YEAR-OLD CHILD WHO WAS PEPPER SPRAYED AND HANDCUFFED, WHO WAS A BLACK CHILD.

I HOPE THAT HER, YOU KNOW, HER EXPERIENCES WAS NOT IN VAIN.

SO I -- I -- I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF HOPE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE JURY IS STILL OUT.

BECAUSE WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW THAT THE POLITICAL LEADERS THAT ARE IN OFFICE AT THE STATE LEVEL ARE TAKING THE SAFETY OF BLACK AND BROWN FOLKS IN OUR COMMUNITY SERIOUS ENOUGH TO BE WILLING TO BE THOUGHT LEADERS.

RIGHT?

TO BE WILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AN 1819 SLAVE PATROL BLUEPRINT IS NOT HELPING ANY OF US.

IT IS JUST NOT HE HELPFUL TO OUR COMMUNITY AND WE NEED TO END THIS.

WE NEED TO END THIS IF WE HAVE ANY HOPE OF WORKING OUR WAY OUT OF THIS MESS THAT WE'RE IN AND THIS RACIAL DIVIDE THAT HAS REALLY TORN APART OUR COMMUNITY.

>> I THINK THAT IS A VERY GOOD POINT THAT YOU MAKE AND WE'VE SEEN IT MADE BEFORE, THAT THIS WILL HELP THE GOOD OFFICERS OUT THERE.

AND PEOPLE HAVE SAID THE VAST MAJORITY OF OFFICERS ARE GOOD.

THE PROBLEM IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE ONES THAT AREN'T.

BUT AGAIN THESE APPROACHES AND THESE CHANGES AS YOU SAID WILL HELP EVERYBODY.

ACROSS THE BOARD.

WELL, REVEREND MIRA BROWN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US.

AND VERY THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATION.

WE APPRECIATE IT AND WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO HOPEFULLY TALKING TO YOU AGAIN SOMETIME REAL SOON.

YOU BE WELL.

>> YOU TOO.

TAKE CARE.

>> TAKE CARE NOW.

>> BYE-BYE.

>>> HI, I'M JENNA FLANAGAN OF METRO FOCUS.

THE 2017 RITE RIOTS OF THE #METOO MOVEMENT BROUGHT RENEWED INTEREST TO WOMEN'S EQUALITY, VOICES AND RIGHTS.

THAT COMMITMENT AND INTEREST HELPED MANY WOMEN WIN FIRST TERM SEATS IN THE 2018 MERM ELECTION.

BUT FOR ALL THE GAMES AMERICAN WOMEN HAVE MADE, SOME ARE STILL ASKING, HAVE WOMAN COME FAR ENOUGH?

2020 IN ADDITION TO BEING A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR AND THE 100th ANNIVERSARY OF THE 19th AMENDMENT GUARANTEEING WOMEN THE RIGHT TO VOTE, IT IS ALSO THE YEAR THAT VIRGINIA, THE FINAL STATE IN THE UNION RATIFIED THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AND WERE THE WOMEN WHO PAVED THE WAY FOR THE GENERATION WE SEE DEMANDING CHANGE TODAY.

JOINING ME IS WRITER AND PROFESSOR AT THE CUNY GRADUATE CENTER AND VISITING PROFESSOR OF LAW AT THE YALE LAW SCHOOL, JULIE SOOK.

WHOSE NEW BOOK "THE WOMEN, UNSTOPPABLE MOTHERS OF THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT" HAS BEEN RELEASED AND TELLS THE STORY AROUND THE MOVEMENT AND HOW THEIR WORK RESONATES TODAY.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO FOR PEOPLE WHO AGAIN MIGHT NOT BE FULLY UP WITH THE LATEST GOVERNMENT MACHINATIONS.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN THE VIRGINIA FINALLY RATIFIED THE ERA.

>> THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT GUARANTEES EQUAL RIGHTS NOT TO BE DENIED OR ABRIDGED ON ACCOUNT OF SEX.

A LOT OF WOMEN WHO WORKED ON SUFFRAGE BELIEVED THE VOTE WAS JUST THE BEGINNING.

THAT AFTER THE VOTE THERE WAS ACTUAL EQUAL RIGHTS OF CITIZENSHIP.

THE RIGHT TO WORK AND THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE ECONOMIC SECURITY WHILE ALSO BEING A MOTHER AND RAISING CHILDREN.

THAT IS WHY THEY FOUGHT FOR THE ERA.

THEY WANTED TO GET RID OF LAWS THAT DISCRIMINATED AGAINST WOMEN BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF LAWS THAT DISCRIMINATED AGAINST WOMEN BEYOND DISCRIMINATING AGAINST WOMEN WITH REGARD TO THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

SO THAT -- THE ERA WAS INTRODUCED IN 1923 BUT I ACTUALLY DIDN'T GET OFF THE GROUND UNTIL THE 1970s.

AND WHEN CONGRESS FINALLY ADOPTED IT IN 1972, OUR CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THAT 3/4 OF ALL THE STATES IN THE UNION RATIFY A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

AND IN THE 1970s, ONLY 35 STATES RATIFIED IT.

IF YOU DO THE MATH, 35 STATES IS THREE SHORT THE 38 NEEDED.

SO IT IS ONLY IN RECENT YEARS SINCE 2017 THAT THREE ADDITIONAL STATES RAT FOOID, INCLUDING VIRGINIA JUST THIS YEAR.IFIED, VIRGINIA JUST THIS YEAR.

AND NOW THERE IS A BIG QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS TOO LATE BECAUSE WHEN CONGRESS ADOPTED THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT IN 1972, THEY PUT A DEADLINE ON RATIFICATION.

AND THAT DEADLINE WAS ONLY SEVEN YEARS.

SO IT IS LONG PAST, SEVERAL DECADES AGO.

AND SO THAT -- THAT'S THE QUESTION NOW.

AS TO WHETHER THE E.R.A.

IS STILL RELEVANT AND WHETHER SOME OF THOSE HURDLES TO TO DO WITH THE DEADLINE SHOULD BE OVER COME.

>> WOMEN SUFFRAGE CAME AFTER THE INITIAL ADOPTION OF AT LEAST MOST OF THE STATES LET'S SAY.

CAN YOU -- EXACTLY.

AND MYSELF AS WELL.

CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THOSE KIND OF DISCRIMINATORY LAWS THAT WERE ACTUALLY ON THE BOOKS WERE?

BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY REALLY REMEMBERS AND HAS THE CONTEXT FOR WHAT IT WAS THAT WAS GAINED.

>> GREAT.

SO WHEN THE E.R.A.

WAS ACTUALLY ADOPTED IN 1972, A LOT OF THE LAWS THAT WERE DISCRIMINATORY FROM THE '20s WERE ACTUALLY GONE BY THEN.

BUT STILL IN 1972 WHEN CONGRESS ADOPTED THE E.R.A., THERE WERE STILL LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT ALLOWED DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME STATES MADE IT SO THAT WOMEN WERE EXEMPTED FROM JURY SERVICE.

ALL MEN WERE CALLED TO JURY DUTY.

BUT WOMEN WERE ONLY CALLED IF THEY OPTED IN.

AND WHAT THAT MEANT IN PRACTICE WAS THAT YOU COULD HAVE ALL MALE INJ JURIES AND THAT WAS VERY COMMON, EVEN IN THE EARLY 1970s.

ANOTHER MAJOR ISSUE WAS THE EXCLUSION OF WOMEN FROM CERTAIN INSTITUTIONS OF POWER, INCLUDING IN VIRGINIA, THE VIRGINIA MILITARY INSTITUTE.

AND THE VIRGINIA MILITARY INSTITUTE WASN'T THE ONLY PUBLIC INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

THERE WERE MANY OTHERS.

AND THERE WERE -- SO THERE WAS THOSE KIND OF LAWS THAT TREATED WOMEN DIFFERENTLY.

SOMETIMES DISADVANTAGED THEM.

AND WOMEN WANTED AN E.R.A.

TO GET RAID OF THAT.

THERE WERE ALSO OTHER FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION.

SO IN SOME PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS, IF A TEENAGER GIRL GOT PREGNANT SHE WOULD GET EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL.

AND THAT SEEMED TO BE ALSO A DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF SEX.

SO THESE WERE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT AT A GENERAL MATTER IT WASN'T THESE SPECIFIC THINGS.

IT WAS THIS GENERAL SENSE THAT WOMEN WERE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS STILL IN 1972.

THAT IS WHAT WAS FOUGHT FOR WITH THE E.R.A.

AND TODAY OF COURSE, I'LL COME BACK TO THE EXAMPLES OF VIRGINIA MILITARY INSTITUTE.

THAT WAS ACTUALLY -- THAT SCHOOL WAS INTEGRATED BY SUPREME COURT DECISION IN 1996.

IT WAS A SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT WAS MADE BASED ON THE 14th AMENDMENT EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE, NOT BASED ON THE E.R.A., WHICH HAD NOT BEEN RATIFIED AT THAT POINT.

SO NOW, GENERATIONS -- THE NEW GENERATION OF WOMEN ARE ASKING DO WE STILL NEED THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT WHEN ALL THESE OTHER TOOLS WERE DEVELOPED SINCE THE 1970s TO GET US TO THE POINT THAT WE ARE AT TODAY?

>> IS THAT, I GUESS, A FAIR QUESTION?

BECAUSE IT SEEMS AS IF, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WITH THE #METOO MOVEMENT WE SAW COME UP IN 2017 AND EVEN WITH THIS WAVE OF, YOU KNOW, YOUNGER WOMEN THAT WE'RE SEEING COMING INTO OFFICE, THERE IS STILL CLEARLY ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT STILL NEED TO BE MADE MORE EQUAL, THAT STILL WERE NOT QUITE THERE YET.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT'S DRIVING THE MOVEMENT.

THAT EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE LAWS THAT SAY EQUAL PAY, WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE EQUAL PAY.

WOMEN STILL MAKE ABOUT 80 CENTS TO THE MAN'S DOLLAR.

AND -- >> AND THAT'S SOME WOMEN.

I DO WANT TO BE CLEAR.

NOT ALL WOMEN MAKE 80 CENTS TO A MAN'S DOLLAR.

>> IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN AND LATINA WOMEN, THEY MAKE LESS THAN 80 CENTS, TO THE MAN'S DOLLAR.

SO THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES AND ALSO AS THE #METOO MOVEMENT SHOWS, A LOT OF WOMEN ARE SUBJECT TO HARASSMENT AND VIOLENCE IN CONTEXT WHERE THEY SHOULD BE TREATED AS EQUALS.

AND SO THESE ARE ALL PROBLEMS THAT I THINK ARE DRIVING THE MOVEMENT.

AND BUT I THINK THAT THE REASON THE E.R.A.

IS SO IMPORTANT NOW IS THAT EVEN THE THINGS THAT WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED BY OTHER MEANS, WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED THEM IN A WORKAROUND WAY.

BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY OF AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION.

INSTEAD OF GETTING THE E.R.A., WE STRETCH THE 14th AMENDMENT AND THE 5th AMENDMENT.

WE STRETCHED OTHER PARTS OF THE CONSTITUTION.

AND I THINK THAT IS ACTUALLY IN SOME WAYS, IT REALLY UNDERVALUES THE WORK THAT WOMEN DID AS CONSTITUTION MAKERS.

BECAUSE WOMEN FOUGHT FOR THE E.R.A.

AND NOT MAKING A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT OFFICIAL IS A WAY OF MAKING KIND OF INVISIBLE AND WORKAROUND AND UNDERVALUES ALL OF THE AMAZING THINGS THAT WOMEN DID TO ACTUALLY BE MOTHERS OF THE CONSTITUTION.

FOUNDING MOTHERS.

IF YOU DON'T ADD THIS AMENDMENT WE'RE STILL GOING TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE WE JUST HAVE FOUNDING FATHERS AND NO FOUNDING MOTHERS.

AND I THINK IN THIS COUNTRY WE HAVE THIS TENDENCY TO REALLY REVERE OUR FOUNDING FATHERS.

MANY OF WHOM WERE BRILLIANT BUT ALSO FLAWED MEN.

MANY OF THEM HELD SLAVES, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND SO WE AREVERE THESE INSTITUTIONS BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS AND CREATED THIS AMENDMENT PROCESS THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT AND I THINK WOMEN HAVE PERSISTED FOR AT LEAST A HUNDRED YEARS IF NOT LONGER TO WRITE THEIR EQUAL RIGHTS INTO THE CONSTITUTION.

AND BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE BEEN SO RESILIENT AND RESOURCEFUL, THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE SOME OF THOSE LEGAL REMEDIES THROUGH OTHER MEANS.

BUT THERE REALLY IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR HAVING OFFICIAL RECOGNITION IN THE CONSTITUTION OF WOMEN'S EQUAL CITIZENSHIP.

>> YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF REVERING, FLAWED INDIVIDUALS, WHICH IS HISTORY IS.

I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

YOUR BOOK GETS INTO A LOT OF THE STORIES, PARTICULARLY OF THE SUFFRAGISTS.

AND YOU KNOW THE GREAT GAINS THAT A LOT OF THEM MADE.

OF COURSE THE 19th AMENDMENT AND THE INTRODUCTION OF IF E.R.A.

BUT YOU ALSO DON'T LET THEM OFF THE HOOK BY ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY DID HAVE SOME SHORTCOMINGS, PARTICULARLY AROUND ISSUES OF RACE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ALICE PAUL IS OFTEN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

ALTHOUGH SHE DIDN'T DO IT BY HERSELF.

AND SHE'S ALSO PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS SUFFRAGISTS BECAUSE SHE REALLY MADE THE MOVEMENT VERY IN YOUR FACE AND MILITANT.

AND I THINK THAT DID A LOT TO MOVE THINGS ALONG.

AND SHE WAS A VERY CRUCIAL FIGURE IN GETTING SUFFRAGE WHEN WE DID IN 1920.

BUT OF COURSE GETTING THINGS DONE IN A PARTICULAR POLITICAL MOMENT REQUIRES CERTAIN POLITICAL COMPROMISES.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE STORIES THAT I TELL IN MY BOOK IS ABOUT HOW ALICE PAUL, WHEN SHE ORGANIZED THE BIG ATTENTION GETTING 1913 SUFFRAGE PARADE, THERE WAS THIS QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN, WHO WERE ALSO STRUGGLING FOR WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE, SHOULD BE FULLY INTEGRATEDFUL INTO THE PARADE.

AND I THINK ALICE PAUL HAD TO MAKE A POLITICAL CALCULATION ABOUT HOW SHE WAS GOING TO HOLD TOGETHER A COALITION OF WHITE MOTHERS, WOMEN, SHE WAS AFRAID THEY WOULD NOT MARCH IF AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN WERE FULLY INTEGRATED.

AND AS A RESULT SHE ASKED THE AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN'S GROUP TO MARCH AT THE BACK.

AND SOME AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN DID.

AND OTHERS JUST INTEGRATED THEMSELVES.

LIKE IDA WELLS, SHE JUST INTEGRATED HERSELF INTO THE MOVEMENT.

>> SO I'M SURE HE DID.

>> AND I THINK THIS HISTORY IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS ASKED THE QUESTION, WELL IF THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT BEGAN WITH ALICE PAUL AND THERE WERE THESE CHOICES THAT SHE MADE AROUND AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN, HOW SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT WHAT THE E.R.A.

MEANS TODAY IN THE CONTEXT OF RACIAL JUSTICE AND POSTCIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT?

AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR NON WHITE WOMEN, WOMEN OF COLOR?

AND I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO EXCAVATE THE HISTORY OF THE E.R.A.

BECAUSE ONE REAL TURNING POINT YOU SEE IN THE 1940sING, HAVING TO DO WITH A LOT OF FACTORS, INCLUDING WORLD WAR II AND THE UNITED NATIONS CHARTER.

IS THE SUPPORT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COLORED WOMEN AND MARY FITZGERALD AN AFRICAN AMERICAN SUFFRAGIST WHO MARCHED AT THE BACK OF THE PARADE COMING OUT IN SUPPORT IN A EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT IN THE 1940S.

AND EARLY 1970s, SHIRLEY CHISHOLM THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN CONGRESS, ALSO RAN FOR PRESIDENT 1972.

SHE AND KATHY TAKAMOTO MING THE FIRST ASIAN WOMEN -- CONGRESS 1974 BECOME HUGE PROPONENTS IN THE E.R.A.

THAT LEAD TO IT BEING ADOPTED BY CONGRESS.

AND THEY REALLY FOCUS ON ISSUES THAT AFFECT WORKING WOMEN AND WOMEN OF COLOR INCLUDING ISSUES OF LACK OF ACCESS TO CHILD CARE.

AND I THINK BECAUSE THOSE FOUNDING MOTHER, IF YOU WILL, REALLY DREW ATTENTION TO THE WHOLE RANGE OF ISSUES, INCLUDING INTERSECTIONAL ISSUES IN THE 1970s.

THAT IS PART OF WHAT THE E.R.A.

IS NOW.

AND THEN FAST FORWARDING TO THE LAST THREE YEARS, WHERE NEVADA, ILLINOIS AND VIRGINIA RATIFIED THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

THOSE STATE LEGISLATURES, WHEN THEY RATIFIED.

THOSE BILLS.

THOSE RATIFICATION BILLS WERE LED BY WOMEN OF COLOR IN MOST STATES.

SO IN NEVADA THERE WAS SENATORS P PAT STEERMAN WHO PLAYED A ROLE IN VIRGINIA.

AND -- PATRONS OF THE E.R.A.

RESOLUTION.

AND IN ILLINOIS THERE WERE WOMEN OF ALL DIFFERENT COLORS WHO WERE INVOLVED IN SPONSORING THE BILL.

AND SO I THINK ALL DOCT-- ALL O THIS SHOWS THAT SO MUCH OF THE E.R.A.

STORY IS ABOUT WOMEN COMING INTO THEIR POLITICAL OWN AND DOING IT IN A WAY THAT IS INCLUSIVE.

>> WELL UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE BUT THE BOOK "THE WOMAN, THE UNSTOPPABLE MOTHERS OF THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT" AND THE AUTHOR, JULIE SUK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

THE JPB FOUNDATION.