>>> TONIGHT A SOCIAL MEDIA SUPERSTAR PUSHING TO PROTECT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES BY HAVING EVERYONE MASK UP.

AND THE RED/BLUE DIVIDE AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

HOW STUDENTS COULD BE GETTING A MYTH EDUCATION.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE PETER P. FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

NEW YORK CITY'S BALL AGAINST COVID TOOK ANOTHER TWIST AS NEW YORKERS WERE ADVISED TO MAS YOU CAN UP IN PUBLIC INDOOR SETTINGS AND CROWDED OUTDOOR SPACES.

WITH CASES SURGING, THE CITY RAISED ITS COVID ALERT LEVEL FROM MEDIUM TO HIGH, BUT MAYOR ERIC ADAMS STOPPED SHORT OF RESTORING THE MASK MANDATE.

THE MOVE COMES AS PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND THEIR ADVOCATES HAVE CALLED FOR MORE TO BE DONE TO FROM TEXT THEIR COMMUNITY.

FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, THOSE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE BEEN LEFT FEELING ISOLATED, IGNORED, AND FEARFUL OF A DSZ THAT COULD HAVE WORSE OUTCOMES FOR THEM.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS HELPING TO LEAD THE NATION WILD FIGHT FOR BETTER PROTECTION AND RECOGNITION.

HE'S A DISABILITY RIGHTS ACTIVIST AND BLOGGER WITH OVER 500,000 FOLLOWERS ON SOCIAL MEDIA WHO WRITES FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A BLACK WOMAN WITH CEREBRAL PALSY OOM.

SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW HER BY HER SOCIAL MEDIA HANDLE CRUTCHES AND SPICE, AND HER VIDEOS HAVE BEEN VIEWED TENS OF MILLIONS OF TIMES.

WE SPOKE WITH HER BEFORE THE CITY'S LATEST ADVISORY AND STARTED THE CONVERSATION BY ASKING WHY SHE CALLS THE PANDEMIC A MASK DISABLING EVENT.

>> YEAH, SO THE PANDEMIC WAS A MASK DISABLING EVENT, PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, AND SOCIETALLY.

WHAT I MEANT IS YOU CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM AN ILLNESS AS SERIOUS AS COVID-19 AND THINK YOU'LL BE FINE AFTERWARDS.

THAT'S NOT HOW VIRUSES WORK.

A LOT OF PEOPLE GET AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES AT THE ONSET OF A MAJOR ILLNESS.

A LOT OF DISABLED PEOPLE SAW THE WRITING ON THE WALL AND SAID THIS IS GOING TO DISABLE SO MANY PEOPLE, AND IT REALLY KIND OF GROUND OUR SOCIETY TO A HALT.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE WERE EXCITED FOR MASK MANDATES TO COME DOWN.

BUT YOU'RE STILL LOOKING AT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AFFECTED WITH NEW DISABILITIES AND A SOCIETY THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WANTS TO INCLUDE US IN ANYTHING.

SO WE WERE REALLY KIND OF SEEING THE DEVASTATION OF THIS.

>> SO WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE DISABLED COMMUNITY, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE CLEAR, IT'S BROAD GROUP AND A BROAD DEFINITION.

SO, HOW MANY DIFFERENT KIND OF PEOPLE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> I MEAN, THE UNITED STATES, ANYWHERE AROUND LIKE 60 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE A DISABILITY.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF A DISABILITY, BY THE ADA, ANY IMPAIRMENT THAT AFFECTS YOUR DAILY LIVING.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THERE'S A LIST OF DISABILIIES OR CATEGORIES BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT AFFECT YOURS DAILY ACTIVITIES.

SO MANY PEOPLE FIT THERE.

GLOBALLY IT'S ABOUT 15% OF THE POPULATION.

IT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE A DISABILITY AND WE ARE QUITE OFTEN MARGINALIZED IN OUR SOCIETY, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DISABILITY DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY HAVE ONE.

>> INTERESTING.

A LOT OF PEOPLE I THINK NARROWLY DEFINE DISABILITY.

SHARE WITH US YOUR SPECIFIC DISABILITY AND HOW THAT UNIQUELY AFFECTS THE WAY YOU'VE EXPERIENCED LIFE IN OUR SOCIETY.

>> YEAH.

I HAVE WHAT'S CALLED SPASTIC CEREBRAL PALSY FROM THE WAIST DOWN, BASICALLY.

AND I ALSO HAVE TROUBLE CONTROLLING MY LEGS.

THEY DO NOT DO WHAT I WANT THEM TO DO.

BUT I HAVE ALSO HAVE POOR BALANCE SO I WALK WITH CRUTCHES.

I'VE USED THEM SINCE ABOUT 4 YEARS OLD.

I'M A VISIBLE DISABILITY BECAUSE OF THE THINGS I NEED TO CARRY WITH ME TO MOVE ABOUT SOCIETY.

AND QUITE OFTEN PEOPLE LOOK AT MY DISN'T AND DISCOUNT ME TO SOMEONE TO TALK TO, HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH, AS A PERSON.

A LOT OF PEOPLE CONFRONT ME AS AN IDEA FIRST.

THEY LIKE TO THINK ABOUT THE INSPIRATION BEHIND ME BEING OUTSIDE AND ALL THE HURDLES I'VE OVERCOME, NEVER MIND THAT LOT OF TIMES THE HURDLES AND BARRIERS AREN'T JUST NOT REAL BUT A LOT OF THOSE BARRIERS ARE PUT IN PLACE BY THEM.

AND THEY'RE CELEBRATING ME FOR OVERCOMING THE HURDLES THEY PUT IN MY WAY.

MOVING ABOUT SOCIETY AS SOMEONE WITH A PHYSICAL DISABILITY IS DIFFERENT FROM A CHRONIC ILLNESS OR DISEASE.

THERE'S DIFFERENT SOCIALIZATIONS FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE THING.

>> DOES THAT BECOME MORE COMPLICATED OR NUANCED IN ADDITION AS ALSO A WOMAN AND A BLACK WOMAN?

>> OH, 100%.

YEAH, I MEAN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE ADA AND REGULATIONS VOUPD SURROUNDING THAT, THERE ARE A LOT OF DISABLED PEOPLE ON GROUND BUT IT WAS REALLY INFORMED BY OUR MILITARY BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE COME HOME FROM WAR DISABLED AND THEY ARE PUSHED TO THE FOREFRONT IN A LOT OF DISABILITY ADVOCACY REGARDLESS OF WHO WAS ON THE GROUND.

A LOT OF OUR PROTOCOLS ARE DESIGNED BY MEN.

THERE'S ALSO THE IDEA THAT I'M BLACK AND SO YOU DON'T REALLY SEE A TON OF BLACK DISABLED PEOPLE REPRESENTED.

IT'S INCREASED RECENTLY BUT THAT'S VERY NEW.

A LOT OF OUR DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA ARE BASED OFF OF WHITE PEOPLE.

SO PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE THAT BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE CAN HAVE A DISABILITY.

THERE'S ALL TYPES OF DIFFERENT IDENTITY RELATED NUANCES PEOPLE DON'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.

>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GOT INTO ALL THAT BACKGROUND AS WE FURTHER OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

SO WITH THE MASK MANDATE COMING DOWN, WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND AS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE SEEMED TO PERHAPS CATCH LEERILY DISMISS MASKS EVEN IN ENCLOSED SPACES?

>> I THINK OF IT KIND OF LIKE SECURITY THEATER IN THE TSA.

RIGHT?

LIKE THIS IDEA THAT YOU TAKING OFF THIS MASK MEANS SYMBOLICALLY YOU'RE PAST THE PANDEMIC.

NO.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

WE'RE STILL VERY MUCH IN THIS PANDEMIC.

DISABLED PEOPLE ARE STILL VERY MUCH ARE SHIELDING FROM THIS PANDEMIC.

SOME PEOPLE ARE DECIDING I STILL NEED TO GET WORK AND LIVELIHOOD BUT WE'RE STILL SCARED.

THE FACT THAT PEOPLE TAKE MASKS AS A SYMBOL OF WE'VE MOVED ON, THAT'S NOT TRUE.

THEY'VE LEFT YOU TO THE WOLVES AND YOU'RE EXCITED TO GO TO THE WOLVES.

THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME.

>> ONE OF THINGS I FIND POWERFUL ABOUT YOUR WORK, YOU TALK ABOUT ABLEISM AND HOW THAT IS I GUESS THE LASTISM THAT PEOPLE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND OR ACKNOWLEDGE.

DEFINE ABLEISM AS HOW YOU SEE IT AND HOW THAT DRIVES A LOT OF SOCIETIAL DECISIONS THAT A LOT OF US DON'T REALIZE WE'RE PRECIPITATING IN.

>> ABLEISM IS THE STRUCTURAL, INTERPERSONAL FOR OUR SOCIETY.

OUR SOCIETY IS BUILT FOR NONDISABLED PEOPLE, EVERYTHING FROM BUILDINGS HAVING ONE ACCESSIBLE ENTRANCE TO CLASSES NOT INCLUDING DISABLED ACCOMMODATIONS TO TEACHERS REFUSING ACCOMMODATIONS TO OUR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM NOT BEING ALL ACCESSIBLE.

EVERYTHING IS BUILT FOR NONDISABLED PEOPLE IN MORE WAY THAN ONE.

WALKING ABOUT ABLEISM, IT SOUND NICE?

A LOT OF WAYS.

IT SOUNDS SO KIND TO DISABLED PEOPLE.

OH, WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR DISABLED PEOPLE.

WE'LL KEEP THEM OVER HERE IN THIS LITTLE SECTION OF SOCIETY, PAY THEM BELOW THE MINIMUM WAGE IN 38 STATES, MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE HOUSING AND WE'LL PUT THEM -- WE'LL JUST MAKE SURE SURE THEY ARE OVER THERE.

DISABLED PEOPLE ARE, LIKE, NO, WE DESERVE TO BE IN EVERY FACET OF SOCIETY.

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE WANT MORE FOR OURSELVES.

ABLEISM VERY MUCH SO IS PREVALENT IN EVERY OTHER ISM THAT WE HAVE.

SO OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE MARGINALIZED, IT'S AN ATTACK ON HEALTH CARE FIRST.

THAT FURTHER DISABLES PEOPLE WHO ARE MARGINALIZED.

>> MM-HMM.

>> TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S ACCESS TO HEALTH INSURANCE TO GENDER CARE TO ABORTION, THAT IS DISABLING PEOPLE.

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO GET ADEQUATE HEALTH CARE ARE DISABLED.

AND SO ABLEISM IS USED AS A TOOL TO MARGINALIZE SO MANY MORE GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

IT IS LITERALLY EVERYWHERE BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE SEE THE LEAST BECAUSE IT LOOK SO KIND AND BECAUSE DISABLED PEOPLE ARE ISOLATED FROM SOCIETY, WE DON'T LISTEN TO PEOPLE MOST SUBJECT TO THAT ABLEISM.

>> SPEAKING OF ABLEISM AND THE PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS NOT ONLY LISTEN TO BUT GIVE LARGE PLATFORMS TO BECAUSE OF POSITIONS THEY HAVE, AT ONE POINT THE CDC DIRECTOR, ROCHELLE WALENSKY, COMMENTED ON THE COMMUNITY SAYING PEOPLE KWOUT UNDERLYING CONDITIONS AREN'T DYING, AND SHE LATER APOLOGIZED TO THAT.

BUT YOU LED THE ONLINE RESPONSE TO HER CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTS.

WHY DID YOU FEEL YOU NEEDED TO IMMEDIATE BY GET ON THAT AND SPEAK OUT?

>> I THINK THE ISSUE WITH HER COMMENTS IS THAT IT'S JUST, AGAIN, THE FLIPPANCY WITH WHICH DISABLED PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED FOR OUR LIVES.

THIS IDEA THAT DISABLED PEOPLE ARE MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF COMMENTS HERE AND THERE WHEN IT IS AN ENTIRE ATTITUDE THAT HAS INFORMED THEIR CARE OF THE PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE WERE VERY MUCH RELIEVED TO HEAR THAT THE PANDEMIC WOULD ONLY HARM AND AFFECT DISABLED PEOPLE OR PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS AND THEN WANTED TO GO BACK TO THEIR DAILY LIVES AFTER THAT.

TO SEE THIS FLIPPANCY EVEN WITH THE VACCINE AVAILABLE IS STILL UNCONSCIONABLE.

I DON'T CARE WHO TELLS ME WE'RE MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF NOTHING AND EVERYTHING IS MOVING THE WAY IT SHOULD.

IT'S NOT.

WE HAVE JUST PASSED 1 MILLION DEATHS IN THE U.S., AND THAT IS -- THOSE ARE THE DEATHS WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR.

THERE HAVE BEEN SO MUCH EXCESS DEATH IN THE PANDEMIC THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY COUNT, CANNOT COUNT HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED, WHETHER IT BE FROM THE PANDEMIC ITSELF OR THE IN EFFECT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO DOCTORS AND FACILITIES AND IN THE PUBLIC TO GET THE CARE THEY NEED TO THINGS BEING OVERWHELMED AT THE TIME.

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE COST OR TOLL HAS BEEN.

TO SAY THAT, OH, WELL THE VACCINE WORKS BUT THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE -- THEY HAVE MORE CO-MORBIDITIES AND YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT'S OKAY.

LIKE, THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A SMALL AMOUNT, LIKE, THAT DOESN'T MATTER.

THAT STILL MATTERS TO US.

WE'RE NOT NUMBERS, WE'RE PEOPLE.

THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE CAN BRUSH OFF OUR DEATHS BECAUSE IT WORKS IN THEIR FAVOR IS NOT COMFORTING AT ALL.

I WANTED TO START THE MOVEMENT AND IT HAD TO HAPPEN THAT IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE I KNEW THAT EMOTION WAS RILING UP FOR DISABLED PEOPLE AND THEY NEEDED AN OUTLET TO BE HEARD ON THIS FEAR WE STILL HAVE.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE THREAT.

I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "METROFOCUS" AND FOR SHARING YOUR -- JUST YOUR VERY, VERY CLEAR AND HONEST STORY.

>> OF COURSE.

THANK YOU.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORD.

ARE AMERICAN SCHOOLS MISLEADING CHILDREN ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE?

IF SO, WHY?

THOSE QUESTIONS ARE THE SUBJECT OF A NEW BOOK BY AWARD-WINNING FRONTLINE INVESTIGATING JOURNALIST KATIE WORTH.

IT'S CALLED "MISEDUCATION: HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS PUT IN AMERICA."

POLITICS MORE THAN SCIENCE DETERMINES WHAT STUDENTS ARE BEING TAUGHT AND THE RESULTS COULD BE CATASTROPHIC.

JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT HER BOOK, REPORTING ON THE HUMAN STORIES OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND ITS SOLUTIONS, AUTHOR AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER KATIE WORTH.

WELCOME.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> SO GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> LET ME START WITH WHERE YOU START IN THE BOOK BECAUSE IN THE INTRODUCTION YOU TALK ABOUT GOING BACK TO ONE OF YOUR SCHOOLS.

TELL ME WHY YOU WANTED TO START WITH THAT AND WHY IT WAS SO SIGNIFICANT.

>> WELL, SO I HAD BEEN REPORTING, I STARTED THIS REPORTING PROJECT ABOUT WHAT KIDS LEARN IN SCHOOL ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, AND THEN IN NOVEMBER 2018 ACTUALLY, THREE YEARS AGO TODAY, THE TOWN OF PARADISE BURNED DOWN AND THE CAMPFIRE, YOU MAY REMEMBER IT, IT WAS DEVASTATE, BURNED 90% OF THE BUILDINGS IN THAT TOWN.

AND I'M FROM THE COUNTY WHERE PARADISE IS.

SO I'M FROM A TOWN CALLED CHICO.

SO OF COURSE ONE OF MY FIRST THOUGHTS ONCE THE FIRE WAS OUT WAS WHAT ARE KIDS IN THIS COMMUNITY LEARNING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE WHEN THEY HAVE ARGUABLY BEEN REALLY -- THEIR LIVES HAVE ALREADY BEEN SHAPED BY IT.

SO I WOUND UP GOING TO MY ALMA MATER, CHICO JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL, AND TALKING TO A SCIENCE TEACHER THERE WHO IS VERY INTERESTED IN TEACHING CLIMATE CHANGE, AND SHE TOLD ME THIS STORY ABOUT HOW ONE YEAR A COUPLE YEARS AGO SHE WAS WORKING WITH HER STUDENTS ON SOLUTIONS PROJECTS.

THEY'D ALREADY HAD A WHOLE CLIMATE LESSON.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY STARTED COMING IN AND NOT KNOWING OR SAYING, LIKE, WELL THIS ISN'T REAL ANYWAY.

IT TURNED OUT THAT THEY HAD BEEN LEAVING HER CLASS WHERE THEY WERE LEARNING CLIMATE SCIENCE AND WALKING INTO A HISTORY TEACHER'S CLASS WHERE -- WHO WAS SHOWING THEM VIDEO, YOUTUBE VIDEOS ALLEGING THAT THE CLIMATE CRISIS WASN'T REAL, THAT IT WAS A HOAX, THAT IT WAS ABOUT SCIENTISTS WHO WERE GRABBING FOR POWER, AND SO THEY WERE GETTING THESE TWO -- THESE WERE 11-YEAR-OLDS SIXTH-GRADERS WHO WERE GETTING REALLY MIXED MESSAGES FROM THE ADULTS IN THEIR LIVES THEY TRUSTED ON THIS ISSUE.

THERE WERE SO MANY POINTS OF TENSION.

ONE EXAMPLE OF MANY THAT I CAME ACROSS IN MY REPORTING.

>> TELL US ABOUT IN TERM OFFENSE YOUR REPORT, SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND TRAVELED.

TE TELL US SOME OF THE THINGS QUICKLY THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER TO FORM THE BASIS OF THE BOOK.

>> I TRAVELED TO A COUPLE DOZEN CLASSROOMS -- I MEAN, I OBSERVED A COUPLE DOZEN CLASSROOMS AND A COUPLE DOZEN COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I BUILT A 50-STATE DATABASE.

I READ THROUGH DOZENS OF TEXTBOOKS.

I REALLY DID BOTH QUALITATIVE AND QUALITATIVE ANALYSIS OF THIS, AND, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, WHAT I FOUND IS THIS IS A POINT OF FRICTION IN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES.

AND WHAT -- AND ESPECIALLY IN PRETTY CONSERVATIVE COMMUNITIES.

SO IN KIND OF THE REDDEST STATES AND THEN THE BLUEST -- OR THE REDDEST PARTS OF THE BLUEST STATES EVEN.

I'M FROM CALIFORNIA AND THAT'S WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN MY HOMETOWN.

THERE'S REALLY A RED/BLUE DIVIDE.

YOU CAN KIND OF ROUGHLY GUESS WHAT A KID IS GOING TO LEARN ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE JUST BY KNOWING IF THEIR STATE LEGISLATOR CHUR IS RUN BY DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.

>> THERE'S SO MUCH IN HERE.

IT'S A MFSH LOUSE BUT WELL-RESEARCHED -- AND PEOPLE SHOULD READ IT.

IT'S IMPORTANT.

LET ME TALK ABOUT SOME OF YOUR FINDINGS.

THE OVERARCHING QUESTION IS ARE TEACHERS ACTUALLY KNOWING PROVIDING MISINFORMATION TO THEIR STUDENTS, OR ARE THEY DOING THIS WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THEY'RE DOING IT?

>> I THINK IT'S FAR, FAR, FAR MORE COMMON THE LATTER.

A LOT OF TEACHERS DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE WHEN THEY GREW UP.

THEY'VE HEARD FROM THEIR NEWS SOURCES, THEIR POLITICIANS THAT THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE HAPPENING, AND, YOU KNOW, SO THEY -- THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO PASS ON TO THEIR KIDS.

TEERPS ARE ALL OVER THE SPECTRUM.

IT'S NOT INTENTIONALLY FROM THE TEACHERS' POINT OF VIEW, NOT AN INTENTIONAL MISEDUCATION, IT'S PASSING ON MISINFORMATION THEY THEMSELVES HAVE ABSORBED OR JUST COMPLETELY LEAVING IT OUT OF THE LESSON PLANS BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT WILL BE A POINT OF TENSION OR A MATTER OF THEM NOT HAVING MUCH TRAINING HOW TO TEACH IT.

>> TALK ABOUT WHAT'S OFTEN DESCRIBED AS THE PROBLEM OF A BOTH-SIDES ISM APPROACH TO THIS IN THE CLASSROOM.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> SO THE -- THERE HASN'T BEEN A TON OF RESEARCH INTO HOW TEACHERS TEACH CLIMATE CHANGE.

BUT THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF SURVEYS AND THEY FIND THAT ABOUT A THIRD OF TEACHERS TEACH IT AS A DEBATE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- THAT'S NOT -- DEBATE IS ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD PEDAGOGY IN CLASSROOM BECAUSE IT ENGAGES KID AND MAKES THEM THINK AND THINK CRITICALLY AND PAY ATTENTION.

BUT IF YOU'RE HAVING KID DEBATE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT A DEBATE, SO, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU'RE NOT HAVING KIDS DEBATE, YOU KNOW, MITOSIS, YOU KNOW, OR, YOU KNOW, THE CELL THEORY BECAUSE THERE'S THIS ABUNDANCE OF EVIDENCE FOR IT AND DEBATING IT MIGHT MAKE SOME THINK THAT THERE ISN'T, RIGHT?

THE SAME IS TRUE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

THERE'S AN ABUNDANCE OF EVIDENCE AND NO EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, SO TO HAVE KID DEBATE IT IS DOING A DISSERVICE BECAUSE IT PLANTS THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, EVEN WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF EVIDENCE IT'S -- MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE.

>> YOU TALK ALSO ABOUT THIS PROBLEM BEING COMPOUNDED BY MESSAGING, BY GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE JUMPING IN AND ACTIVELY TRYING TO MOVE THE CONVERSATION AWAY FROM THE TRUTH OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

GIVE US A SENSE OF SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS, HOW ARE THEY GOING ABOUT DOING THAT?

>> YEAH, WELL, SO THERE'S THIS LONG HISTORY OF FOSSIL FUEL -- THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY INSERTING THEIR MESSAGES INTO CLASSROOMS.

AND, YOU KNOW, AT ONE POINT THEY ACTUALLY -- THERE WAS A PLAN MADE TO INSERT CLIMATE DENIAL INTO CLASSROOMS IN A LEAKED MOMENT MOW THAT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" PUBLISHED IN 1998, THEY WANTED TO ERECT A BARRIER AGAINST FOSSIL FUELS.

THERE WAS AN ACTUAL CAMPAIGN BY THE FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES FOR A LONG TIME TO MAKE KIDS DOUBT CLIMATE CHANGE.

THEN THAT -- YOU KNOW, FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES ARE NOW MORE OR LESS ON BOARD, NO LONGER PUSHING DENIALISM.

>> IS THAT TRUE?

BECAUSE I SUSPECT PEOPLE WOULD BE -- MIGHT NOT KNOW THAT.

ARE YOU SEEING THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING THE FOSSIL FUEL-BASED COMPANIES ARE SAYING IT DOES EXIST AND LET'S SEE WHAT -- >> YEAH.

IT TOOK A LOT OF PUBLIC PRESSURE, BUT THEY AT LEAST PUBLICLY NOW SAY CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL, WHICH IS SOMETHING THEIR OWN SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR -- SINCE THE '50s, BY THE WAY.

BUT, YEAH, THEY AT LEAST PUBLICLY ARE SAYING, LIKE, YEAH, IT'S REAL AND WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.

NOW THEIR STRATEGY IS SAYING -- BUT THE ANSWER TO IT ISN'T TO REGULATE US, IT'S TO MAKE INDIVIDUALS, YOU KNOW, LIKE TAKE THE BUS INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, DRIVING TO WORK OR MAKE IT AN INDIVIDUAL -- BECOME VEGAN.

THEY'RE TRYING TO PUSH ANY ACTION ON TO INDIVIDUALS RATHER THAN ON THEIR CORPORATION.

BUT -- BECAUSE THERE CAME TO BE TOO MUCH PUBLIC PRESSURE TO CONTINUE WITH DENIALISM.

IN THEIR PLACE, THERE ARE THESE CONSERVATIVE THINK TANKS, ONE OF THEM IS BASED IN CHICAGO, CALLED THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE, AND A FEW YEARS AGO, IT SENT OUT CLIMATE-DENYING MATERIALS TO IT CLAIMED EVERY SCIENCE TEACHER IN AMERICA.

SO YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT A LOT OF TEACHERS RECEIVED THIS AND JUST IMMEDIATELY THREW IT AWAY.

BUT SOME RECEIVED IT AND TOOK IT IN GOOD FAITH AND STARTED USING IT IN CLASSROOMS.

>> THERE'S A FASCINATING PART OF THE BOOK HERE WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT PUBLISHERS WILL DISTRIBUTE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE SAME TEXTS TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

EXPLAIN THAT, PLEASE.

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, SO THE WAY THAT TEXTBOOK MAKERS CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS IS THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO SELL TEXTBOOKS.

SOME STATES LIKE TEXAS AND FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA, HAVE STATEWIDE ADOPTION.

SO A TEXTBOOK MAKER PRODUCES A TEXTBOOK, THEN A COMMITTEE BASICALLY LOOKS AT THE TEXTBOOK WITH A FINE TOOTHED COMB AND THEN EITHER APPROVES OR REJECTS IT.

THAT'S A MATTER TO MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THESE COMPANIES.

WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THESE TEXTBOOK, THEY HAVE IN MIND, WILL THIS BOOK PASS THE SCRUTINY OF THE TEXAS TEXTBOOK COMMISSION.

AND, YOU KNOW, AND SO THEY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THEY REALLY ARE VERY CAREFUL IN THEIR LANGUAGE ABOUT POLITICAL ISSUES.

AND I TALKED TO SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE INDUSTRY WHO SAID THAT THERE WERE EXPLICIT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW TO PRESENT CLIMATE CHANGE IN THEIR TEXTBOOKS.

AND AS A RESULT, WHAT WE FOUND WHEN WE READ THROUGH ALL THESE TEXTBOOKS WAS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF CLIMATE DENIAL LANGUAGE IN IT.

SO THERE'S GOOD INFORMATION ABOUT CLIMATE SCIENCE, BUT THEN THERE WILL BE A PRF THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, WHILE MANY SCIENTISTS BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSED BY HUMANS, SOME BELIEVE THAT IT'S NATURAL AND BEING CAUSED BY SOLAR CYCLE, ET CETERA, WHICH THERE'S NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE FOR.

IT'S NOT BASED ON SCIENCE.

BUT THEY'RE INCLUDING THAT SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THAT CONSERVATIVE TEXAN TEXTBOOK COMMISSION LOOKS AT IT, THEY'LL BE, LIKE, OKAY, IT INCLUDES BOTH SIDE, RIGHT.

SO THERE'S A TEXTBOOK THAT'S MADE SORT OF WITH TEXAS AND LOUISIANA AND FLORIDA IN MIND, AND THEN THERE'S NOW A SECOND TIER OF TEXTBOOKS THAT GOES INTO MUCH MORE DEPTH ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE FOR THE CALIFORNIANS OF THE WORLD WHO REALLY DO WANT A ROBUST EDUCATION ABOUT CLIMATE SCIENCE.

>> KATIE, THERE IS SO MUCH IN THIS BOOK THAT IS WORTHY OF OUR CONSIDERATION WHERE WE NEED TO BE DEALING WITH IT, ESPECIALLY AS PARENTS TO HAVE A BETTER GRASP OF WHAT YOUR CHILDREN SHOULD BE LEARNING BECAUSE, AS YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK, THERE ARE INDEED DIRE CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR CHILDREN AND AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF CHILDREN NOT TO BE TAUGHT ABOUT THE REALITY OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE BOOK IS CALLED "MISEDUCATION."

GET IT INTO YOUR SCHOOLS.

KATIE, WE APPRECIATE YOU TAKING SOME TIME TO CHAT WITH US.

THE RESEARCH IS COMPELLING AND SHARING IT IS SO HELPFUL.

YOU TAKE CARE NOW.

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU.

MY PLEASURE.

BYE-BYE.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE FOUNDATION.