♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

>>> YOU KNOW, DESPITE THIS BEING AN OFF YEAR, NOVEMBER 2nd IS ELECTION DAY IN NEW JERSEY.

ALL 120 LEGISLATIVE SEATS ARE UP FOR GRABS IN THE GARDEN STATE, BUT CLEARLY NO CONTEST IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE BETWEEN FORMER REPUBLICAN STATE ASSEMBLYMAN JACK CICCARELLI AND DEMOCRATIC INCOME BENTT PHIL MURPHY.

HOPING TO THE FIRST TO BE RE-ELECTED INTO OFFICE SINCE 1977.

WHILE CICCARELLI BELIEVES THE MOMENT IS RIGHT FOR NEW JERSEYANS TO SEND A REPUBLICAN BACK INTO OFFICE.

NEW JERSEY IS ONE OF TWO STATES TO HOLD GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION SO THE OUTCOME OF THE RACE CLOSELY WATCHED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

A "METROFOCUS" CONTRADIBUTOR AN HOST OF "STATE OF AFFAIRS" RECENTLY SAT DOWN FOR ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEWS FOR BOTH GOVERNOR MURPHY AND CANDIDATE CICCARELLI TO TALK ABOUT THE BIGGEST ISSUES FACING NEW JERSEY TODAY.

JOINING US TO DISCUSS HIS INTERVIEWS WITH THE CANDIDATES AND GIVE US HIS TAKE ON THE UPCOMING NEW JERSEY GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION IS STEVE ADUBATO.

>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

GLAD TO BE JOINING YOU AGAIN.

>> IN CASE I DON'T HAVE TIME TO SAY IT, I HAVE TO SAY IT NOW.

TWO OF THE BEST INTERVIEWS OF CANDIDATES I'VE EVER SEEN.

SUBSTANTIVE AND IN CASE I DON'T GET A CHANCE TO SAY IT, I WANT TO SAY IT'S GOING TO BE REBROADCAST ON NJPBS AND TO FIND OUT THE TIMES LOGON TO METROFOCUS.ORG.

I A MIGHT REPEAT THAT IF I CAN.

GET STARTED, STEVE.

FROM YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CANDIDATES AND GENERAL COVERAGE OF THIS ELECTION, WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE BIGGEST ISSUES THAT EMERGED IN THIS RACE?

>> RAF, IT COMES DOWN TO A FEW KEY ISSUES, BECAUSE IT'S HARD FOR VOTERS WITH SO MANY THINGS GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES FACING CHALLENGES CONNECTED TO COVID AS WE HEAD THROUGH THE PROGRAM 19 20SHS MONTHS.

HARD FOR THINGS TO RESONATE.

HERE'S WHAT RESONATES, KIDS GOING BACK TO SCHOOL, KIDS BEING SAFE IN SCHOOL.

MASK MANDATES, VACCINE MANDATES, TAX POLICY.

THE ECONOMIC STRUGGLES BUSINESSES HAVE, PARTICULARLY SMALL BUSINESS AS PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS.

PEOPLE HAVING A HARD TIME AND THOSE WHO RUN BUSINESSES GETTING POO EM TO WORK FOR THEM.

I HATE WHEN PEOPLE CALL IT BREAD AND BUTTER ISSUANCE SOUNDS CORNY, BUT HUNGER AS WELL.

FOOD AND SECURITY AND HUNGER ISSUES.

THESE ISSUES ARE NOT ABSTRACT PUBLIC POLICY QUESTIONS.

THEY ARE VERY REAL AND RESONATE WITH PEOPLE ON A VISCERAL LEVEL, AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ULTIMATELY VOTE ON NOVEMBER THE 2nd, OR IF YOU VOTE BEFORE BY MAIL, ON THOSE ISSUES AND WHO THEY BELIEVE IS BEST POSITIONED TO LEAD NEW JERSEY IN THIS VERY CHALLENGING TIMES.

>> ALL RIGHT, STEVE.

WE'LL TRY TO GET TO AS MANY OF THOSE ISSUES AS POSSIBLE.

PROBABLY NOT AS MANY IN THE TIME WE HAVE.

IF I MISS SMAOMETHING AND YOU WT TO BRING IF IN, FEEL FREE.

START WITH COVID.

DURING EARLY MONTHS OF THE PANDEMIC, GOVERNOR MURPHY'S POPULARITY SHOT UP, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT HE DEALT, THAT HE LED DURING THIS CRISIS, BUT SEEMS TO ME PARTICULARLY AFTER I SAW YOUR INTERVIEW WITH HIM THAT ONE OF HIS VULNERABILITIES IN THIS RACE IS HIS DECISION TO RETURN NURSING HOME RESIDENTS WHO HAD BEEN HOSPITALIZED WITH COVID BACK TO THEIR HOMES, IN THE NURSING HOMES.

AS A RESULT, IT MAY HAVE HAPPENED THAT ALMOST 8,000 OF THOSE NURSING HOME RESIDENTS DIED.

YOU ASKED HIM IF HE HAD ANY REGRETS ABOUT THIS DECISION TO RETURN THESE NURSING HOME RESIDENTS BACK TO THEIR HOMES.

HOW DID HE RESPOND?

>> HMM.

WELL, THE GOVERNOR WAS ALSO ASKED THE SAME QUESTION ON THE NJPBS INTERVIEW, EXCUSE ME, THE NJPBS DEBATE AND HIS ANSWER WASN'T VERY DIFFERENT, BUT ONE ON ONE WHEN YOU'RE WITH HIM YOU GET TO PRESS A LITTLE HARDER.

RAF, I'VE TRIED TO ASK THE GOVERNOR THIS QUESTION AND, AGAIN, I CAN'T EVEN COMPREHEND AS A STUDENT OF LEADERSHIP HOW CHALLENGING FOR THE GOVERNOR AND THOSE WHO LEAD THE STATE TO RETURN THE GOVERNMENT.

BUT I ASKED SIMPLY, WHEN YOU SENT THOSE PATIENTS WHO HAD COVID COMING FROM NURSING HOMES BACK INTO NURSING HOMES, AND SO MANY PEOPLE DIED, SHOULD YOU HAVE MADE SURE THAT IN THOSE NURSING HOMES, PEOPLE WERE SEPARATED?

THAT THERE WAS THE NECESSARY PPE?

THAT -- THAT, FRANKLY, PEOPLE WEREN'T AT RISK AND KEPT REPEATING AND DIDN'T ANSWER ME, RAF.

THE NURSING HOMES WERE RESPONSIBLE.

THE NURSING HOMES NEEDED TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY.

THEY TOLD US THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO.

I SAID, BUT, GOVERNOR, ISN'T IT THE ROLE OF STATE GOVERNMENT TO MONITOR, TO REGULATE THEM AND HE JUST -- AGAIN I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE, BUT HE SAID NO REGRETS.

HE DID THE SAME THING GOVERNOR CUOMO DID, EXCEPT FOR THIS.

YOU KNOW THIS VERY WELL.

YOU COVERED IT MANY TIMES.

GOVERNOR CUOMO, THE DIFFERENCE WAS THEY UNDER COUNTED THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DIED IN NURSING HOME, BUT FOR THE EXACT SAME DECISION THAT WAS MADE TO SEND PEOPLE BACK INTO THOSE NURSING HOMES.

THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY REGRETS ABOUT THAT.

HE BELIEVES HE DID THE BEST HE COULD DO.

VOTERS WILL HAVE TO DECIDE AND JACK CICCARELLI IS HITTING HIM REALLY HARD ON THAT.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, HE BLASTED HIM FOR NOT HAVING TREATED.

IF HE MADE THAT DECISION, WHY TREAT THE NURSING HOMES AS THE HOSPITALS AND PPE AND THAT STUFF.

ONE THING HE SAID IN YOUR INTERVIEW I DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE IS THERE'S A CALL BETWEEN ONE OF THE NURSING HOME OPERATORS AND THE GOVERNOR, APPARENTLY.

WHERE THE NURSING HOME OPERATOR TELLS HICKS, IF YOU DO THIS, PEOPLE WILL DIE.

THAT IS CHILLING'S IS THAT TRUE CALL, IS IT REAL, AND IF SO, HOW HAS THE GOVERNOR RESPONDED?

>> FOR ME TO SAY IN PUBLIC BROADCASTING, WE'RE VERY CAUTIOUS WHAT WE PUT OUT THERE.

I WON'T SAY I HAVE FIRSTHAND INFORMATION ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION.

THERE ARE CREDIBLE SOURCES THAT SAY SUCH A CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS HE HAD NO IDEA THAT WHAT HAPPENED WOULD HAVE HAPPENED OR COULD HAVE HAPPENED, THAT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE DIED.

THE SOURCES TELL ME THAT THE NURSING HOME OPERATORED TO HIM, WE CAN'T HANDLE THIS.

WE CAN'T DO WHAT YOU EXPECT US TO DO.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS THAT HE WAS ASSURED THAT THAT COULD HAPPEN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH IS RAF, AND I'M NOT GOING TO SPECULATE BEYOND THAT.

>> WE'LL MOVE ON.

THE OTHER, AS YOU MENTIONED, CRITICISM CHICK REL AROUND OTHER CRITICS OF THE GOVERNOR HAVE ABOUT HIS HANDLING OF COVID IS A THIRD OF NEW JERSEY BUSINESSES ALMOST ALL SMALL BUSINESSES WENT OUT OF BUSINESS.

THAT CICCARELLI BLAMES THE GOVERNOR FOR THAT, AND ON TOP OF THAT, CICCARELLI SAYS THAT THE GOVERNOR'S POLICIES WERE INCONSISTENT AND IN YOUR INTERVIEW HE GAVE THE EXAMPLE, HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE, OF A JEWELRY STORE ON MAIN STREET CLOSED DOWN WHILE COSTCO JEWELRY COULD STILL BE SOLD PAP MOM AND POP BICYCLE STHORE THAT HAS TO SHUT DOWN WHILE IN WALMART BIKES COULD BE SOLD.

IS THIS RESONATING WITH VOTERS?

>> YOU KNOW, I -- WITH RP TO JACK CICCARELLI, AND I KNOW WE'LL TALK ABOUT HIM AND THE CHALLENGES HE HAS, BUT IT IS THE EASIEST THING, WHETHER YOU CALL IT MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK OR FRIDAY AFTERNOON QUARTERBACKING, WHATEVER IT IS, TO SAY THE GOVERNOR DID THIS AND CLOSING BUSINESSES DOWN.

THE GOVERNOR WAS HERE TO FIND WAY -- I'M NOT IS HERE TO DEFEND THE GOVERNOR, BUT I BELIEVE HE WAS TRYING TO FIND A BALANCE TO KEEPING THE ECONOMY GOING, HELPING SMALL BUSINESS BUT ALSO PUBLIC HEALTH.

AND THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SCIENCE, IF YOU WILL, DICTATED CERTAINLY MEASURE HS TOISH BE TAKEN AND CLOSED DOWN, YES, INCONSISTENCIES, CONFUSION, WHY THIS AND NOT THAT, THAT'S LEGITIMATE.

WHEN I PRESSED CICCARELLI HE DID NOT SAY WHAT HE SPECIFICALLY AND PRECISELY WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY, JUST I WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CONSISTENT BUT DOESN'T TELL YOU THE DECISIONS HE WOULD HAVE MADE.

THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING'S IT DIDN'T WORK OUT AND I WOULD HAVE DONE IT DIFFERENTLY BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ME HOW.

>> AS I SAID AT BEGINNING, THE GOVERNOR'S POPULARITY SKYROCKETED BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

AND NEW JERSEY HAS DONE A NUMBER OF VERY GOOD THINGS.

THE VACCINATION RATES, HIGHER THAN IN MOST OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> WHAT DID NEW JERSEYANS WHAT DO THEY NOW THINK OF THE GOVERNOR'S PERFORMANCE DURING THE PANDEMIC?

DO YOU HAVE A SENSE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES I THINK, RAF, I'VE HAD SO MANY CONVERSATIONS OVER THE YEARS ABOUT POLITICS AND POLICY AND ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW BIFOR IT KAED WE ARE.

WHAT I REALLY MEAN BY THAT IS THIS.

SOMETIMES I THINK THERE'S CLEARLY MORE THAN ONE UNITED STATES.

WE'RE SEPARATED BLUE, RED, ET CETERA.

NEW JERSEY'S A BLUE STATE, BUT YOU ASK PEOPLE IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE, THE MORE RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE, THEY'LL TELL YOU CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT GOVERNOR MURPHY.

YOU ASK PEOPLE IN URBAN COMMUNITIES, LARGELY THEY TELL YOU SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT ABOUT, AND SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES.

AFFLUENT BETTER EDUCATED WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

MY POINT IS THIS.

NEW JERSEYANS, IT'S GOING TO BE CLEAR ON NOVEMBER THE 2nd HOW THEY ULTIMATELY FEEL ABOUT HIM, BUT YOU HAVE A WHOLE RANGE OF PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE GOVERNOR MURPHY DID ENOUGH OF THE RIGHT THINGS AND OTHERS WHO SAY A TERRIBLE GOVERNOR, HURT THE ECONOMY, HURT SMALL BUSINESS.

TALKED ABOUT THE NURSING HOME SITUATION.

A LOT IS THAT IS GEOGRAPHIC AND AND TRUTHFULLY HOW PEOPLE FELT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.

IT'S CONNECTED HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT MURPHY AND CICCARELLI.

>> BRINGS ME TO THE NEXT QUESTION ABOUT CICCARELLI.

SEEMS TO ME FROM LOOKING AT YOUR INTERVIEW AND OTHER SOURCES THAT HIS PRINCIPLE, VULNERABILITY, YOU CAN SAY WITH TWO WORDS.

"DONALD TRUMP."

YOU KNOW?

ON THE ONE HAND, HE WAS VERY INCONSISTENT ABOUT WHAT HE SAID ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IN 2015.

HE SAID THAT DONALD TRUMP PRAYED PRAYED -- PREYED ON THE WEAKNESSES AND WORST OF PEOPLE, WASN'T FIT TO BE PRESIDENT AND YET VOTED FOR HIM IN 2020 BECAUSE HE SAID HE DID A GOOD JOB AS A PRESIDENT.

WHAT'S THE TAKE ON THAT?

ON THE STREET?

>> AGAIN, WHICH STREET?

I WILL SAY THIS.

GIVE YOU MY PERSPECTIVE.

BEING AS OBJECTIVE AND AS ANALYTICAL AS POSSIBLE.

I GOT TO TELL YOU.

CICCARELLI AS MEMBER OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE ALWAYS WAS A MODERATE, REASONABLE, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, REASONABLE REPUBLICAN, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IN THE EFFORT TO WIN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY IN NEW JERSEY, WHEN HE THOUGHT HE HAD A RACE.

ACTUALLY ANOTHER CANDIDATE ULTIMATELY DROPPED OUT BY THE NAME OF DOUG STEINHART, TO HEAD THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE STATE.

THAT'S A TRUMP REPUBLICAN.

AND JACK CICCARELLI THOUGHT HE A RACE AGAINST STEINHART AND FRANKLY MOVED HARD TO THE RIGHT, STARTED SUPPORTING DONALD TRUMP.

AND THEN SPINEHART DROPPED OUT AND THEN CICCARELLI TRIED TO MOVE AWAY FROM WHERE HE WAS.

IT DOESN'T WASH. JACK CICCARELLI ATTENDED THE STOP THE STEAL RALLY.

HE ATTENDED THE RALLY.

THERE WERE CONFEDERATE FLAGS THERE, SIGNS ALL OVER THAT SAID "STOP THE STEAL."

>> HE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS STOP THE STEAL AND DIDN'T SEE THE FLAGS.

>> HEY, RAF I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M ON TELEVISION WITH YOU NOW.

AGAIN, I CAN'T GET INSIDE THE HEAD AND HEART OF CICCARELLI BUT IT DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST.

HIS NAME, PICTURE, LIKENESS, WAS ON THE RALLY PAMPHLET.

THE PARAPHERNALIA, THE MARKETING ABOUT IT.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT STOP THE STEAL AT THE RALLY.

HE DOESN'T KNOW AT THE STOP THE STEAL RALLY?

DOESN'T ADD UP.

I'M SAYING I THINK HE'S TRYING TO RUN AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP, BECAUSE NEW JERSEY IS A BLUE STATE, BECAUSE REPUBLICANS ARE VERY MODERATE, EXCEPT FOR THOSE IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE STATE, AND YOU CAN'T DENY THE FACT YOU SAID DONALD TRUMP WASN'T FIT TO BE PRESIDENT AND VOTED FOR HIM BECAUSE HE DID A GOOD JOB AND AGREED WITH HIM ON ISSUES, BUT THEN JANUARY 6th HAPPENS AND WHAT?

>> AY SIDE FROM JANUARY 6th, BRING IT BACK HOME.

I MEAN, HE SAYS THAT THE PRESIDENT DID A GOOD JOB FOR THE NATION, BUT HE AGREED WITH YOU WHEN YOU ASKED HIM THAT THE GATEWAY PROJECT THAT IS PULLING THE PLUG ON THAT WAS A BAD THING FOR NEW JERSEY.

HE AGREED THAT HIS SUPPORT FOR THE STATE AND LOCAL TAX CAP ON -- >> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> ON FEDERAL TAXES WAS A BAD IDEA.

THOSE THINGS, I GUESS -- IT'S HARD TO GET AWAY FROM THOSE.

>> HEY, RAF.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM I SEE.

PEOPLE, AGAIN, WILL DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES ON NOVEMBER THE 2nd OR IF YOU VOTE BY MAIL BEFORE.

SO YOU'RE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY.

YOUR PRIMARY JOB, PROTECT INTERESTS OF THE 9 MILLION CITIZENS IN THE STATE.

BUT YOU BELIEVE THAT DONALD TRUMP DID A GOOD JOB FOR THE NATION AND A BAD JOB FOR NEW JERSEY.

SO THE GATEWAY TUNNEL, SO CRITICAL TO COMMERCE, TO TRANSPORTATION, TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TO QUALITY OF LIFE, DONALD TRUMP WAS ABSOLUTELY AGAINST AND PEOPLE HAVE TO ASK THEMSELVES, WAS HE AGAINST IT FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE OR AGAINST IT BECAUSE NEW JERSEY AND NEW YORK WERE NOT LIKELY TO REALLY VOTE FOR HIM IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?

SECOND, THE STATE AND LOCAL TAX DEDUCTION, CAPPING IT AT $10,000 IN NEW JERSEY, WHEN NEW JERSEY HAS HIGHEST PROPERTY TAXES IN THE NATION, AND VERY HIGH INCOME TAX, YOU'RE ONLY AGAINST IT FOR WHAT REASON?

IF JACK CICCARELLI SAID TRUMP WAS GOOD FOR THE NATION NOT FOR NEW JERSEY, DOESN'T ADD UP.

YOUR JOB IS PROTECT INTERESTS OF NEW JERSEY.

AND IN THAT INTERVIEW I DID WITH HIM AND IN THE NJPBS DEBATE HE SAID SO.

DOESN'T ADD UP.

>> LET'S SAY ON TAXES.

BOTH OF THEM, YOU KNOW, WE WOWORK ED ON SHOWS TOGETHER NOR 22 YEARS.

FOR 22 YEARS, GOT TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES.

BOTH CANDIDATES PROMISING TO LOWER PROPERTY TAXES AND BONED S BOTH SAYING UNDUE THE CAP.

WHAT ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES IN THEIR TAX PROPOSALS?

>> YOU KNOW, SO INTERESTING.

CICCARELLI WANTS TO LOWER CORPORATE TAX.

NOT RAISE TAXES ON WEALTHY NEW JERSEYANS.

HE BELIEVES TAXES ARE TOO HIGH.

IN TERMS OF PROPERTY TAX, HE ARGUES WE SHOULD CHANGE THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA AND QUICKLY, RAF, THAT MEANS AMOUNT OF STATE DOLLARS THAT GO TO CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY URBAN COMMUNITIES CICCARELLI TALKS ABOUT, REDUCE THE FUNDING, REDUCE STATE FUNDING THEN THERE WON'T BE AS HIGH INCOME TAX.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM, RAF.

REDUCE STATE FUNDING TO LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS, WHICH TAX GOES UP?

LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES, WHICH ARE THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF FUNDING FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> GOVERNOR MURPHY ARGUES, EVEN THOUGH HE SAID IN A RECENT DEBATE HE WAS COMMITTED IN THE SECOND TERM NOT TO RAISE TAXES, I ACTUALLY DON'T SEE HOW THAT WORKS BECAUSE THE PROGRAMS HE SUPPORTS, FREE COUNTY COMMUNE COLLEGE AND A WHOLE RANGE OF OTHER PRE-K INITIATIVES, UNIVERSAL PRE-KENED OTHER ISSUES, YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT RAISING TAXES.

I BELIEVE GOVERNOR MURPHY, SAYS IT OR NOT, BELIEVES TAXES SHOULD BE RAISED ON WEALTHY NEW JERSEYANS AGAIN.

THE RICH THERE, WHETHER PEOPLE AGREE OR NOT, MORE AND MORE NECHINS ARE MOVING TO FLORIDA AT LEAST SIX MONTHS AND A DAY MORE, WHICH MEANS YOU DON'T PAY INCOME TAXES IN NEW JERSEY, BECAUSE FLORIDA HAS NO INCOME TAXES, AS YOU WELL KNOW.

>> RIGHT.

WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

ANYTHING SURPRISE YOU IN THE COURSE OF YOUR INTERVIEWS WITH THESE TWO CANDIDATES?

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, RAF, THEY DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER AND I DON'T REALLY CARE THAT, THAT'S MY OPINION.

I DON'T THINK THEY LIKE EACH OTHER.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT HAS COME OUT AGAIN.

YOU SAW A LOT OF THAT VITRIOL ON THE NJPBS DEBATE AND SEE IT IN THEIR ADS.

WHICH ARE REALLY NASTY.

REALLY ARE.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM.

WHAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT IT AND SURPRISES ME, TWO DECENT PEOPLE.

THEY'RE DECENT NEW JERSEYANS, DECENT AMERICANS WHO ARE COMMITTED TO PUBLIC SERVICE AND JUST HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.

AND THE IDEA THAT THEY'RE DEMONIZING EACH OTHER IN SO MANY WAYS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT ISN'T SURPRISING.

JUST DISHEARTENING.

BECAUSE IT'S A PART WHAT YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT TWO DECADES PLUS WE NEED LESS OF AND MORE OF WE DISAGREE ON THE ISSUES BUT RESPECT EACH OTHERS VIEWS.

I'M NOT SEEING THAT IN THIS RACE.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINKING A HARBINGER OF THINGS TO COME IN THE MID-TERM ELECTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT IS.

>> I DO THINK IT IS.

CONGRESSIONAL RACES IN NEW JERSEY THAT ARE GOING TO BE PLAYED OUT IN 2022.

THE VOTE FOR CICCARELLI AND MURPHY AND THOSE CONGRESSIONAL RACES ARE GOING TO HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENS IN 2022.

>> HAVE TO END IT THERE.

STEVE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

A PLEASURE TO TALK TO YOU, AS ALWAYS.

>> MY HONOR, RAF.

♪ VERY SUPERSTITIOUS >>> IT'S THE HAUNTING SEASON OF HALLOWEEN.

HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED WHY VAMPIRES PREFER RED, OR WHAT YOU WOULD DO IN YOU WERE ATTACKED BY A WEREWOLFO ZOMBIE?

CAN YOU TELL IF THAT MYSTERIOUS FOOTPRINT IN THE BACKYARD BELONGS TO BIGFOOT AND JUST WHAT WIND OF DINOSAUR IS GODZILLA?

IF YOUR CHILD OR GRANDCHILD IS BOMBARDING YOU WITH THOSE QUESTIONS WE CAN OFFER HELP.

A NEW BOOK "MONSTROUS: THE LORE GORE AND SCIENCE BEHIND YOUR FAVERY MONSTERS" PRESENTS A SOMEWHAT EDUCATIONAL DIVE INTO MONSTERS AND THE MACABRE SATISFYING THE MOST VORACIOUS AUTHORS.

AND SHE'S HERE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> TELL ME.

WHAT WAS YOUR INSPIRATION BEHIND THIS FABULOUS BOOK?

>> I WAS THE KID WHO WAS SCARED OF EVERYTHING WHEN I WAS A CHILD.

SO I APPROACHED THIS BOOK ORIGINALLY EXAMINING THE SCIENCE OF FEAR.

WHY DO WE FEAR THE THINGS THAT WE DO?

AND TURNS OUT THAT FEAR IS A VERY PRIMAL INSTINCT.

THE MECHANISMS FOR FEAR HAVEN'T CHANGED SINCE OUR EARLIEST ANCESTORS.

SO I WANTED TO EMPOWER READERS TO LET THEM EXAMINE WHICH MONSTERS ARE REAL, WHICH MONSTERS ARE NOT AND GIVE THEM SURVIVAL PLANS TO SURVIVE THE ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.

WHAT HAPPENS IF A VAMPIRE ATTACKS AND YOU HAVE BLOOD LOSS?

THESE SKILLS ARE THINGS TO APPLY TO REAL-LIFE SURVIVAL.

>> AND DO THING LIKE THE KIND OF THINGS, IN A WEIRD WAY, WILL HELP YOU FEEL CALM.

I KNOW WHAT TO DO IF THE MONSTER UNDER MY BED COMES OUT TO GET ME!

WHAT ARE SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT PEOPLE OR READERS CAN GET FROM YOUR BOOK?

>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE SPREADS IS A PICTURE OF A SNARLING WEREWOLF, AND IT SAYS, HOW TO COMMUNICATE WITH A WEREWOLF SO YOU DON'T GET EATEN.

ALL OF THE TIPS IN IT ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME BODY LANGUAGE THAT DOGS USE.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF KIDS THAT ARE SCARED OF DOGS.

SO, YOU KNOW, A DOG WILL RAISE ITS TAIL AND START WAGGING LIKE THAT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE -- THAT'S A SIGN OF AGGRESSION.

THAT MEANS IT'S ABOUT TO ATTACK.

A DOG WILL PIN ITS EARS FORWARD.

IT'S ABOUT A LUNGE.

AND SO IT'S SORT OF A TONGUE AND CHEEK WAY TO SAY, OKAY.

THIS IS -- IF A WEREWOLF IS ABOUT TO ATTACK IT WILL DO THESE THINGS, BUT GUESS WHAT, KIDS?

IF A DOG DOES THAT, YOU ALSO BETTER STAND BACK.

>> UH-HUH!

OF COURSE.

NOW, DOES THIS MEAN, THOUGH THAT IF A WEREWOLF WERE TO COME UPON ME AND I PERHAPS HAD BACON IN MY POCKET -- I CAN'T GET AWAY?

AND MAKE THE WEREWOLF VERY, VERY HAPPY.

>> BACON IS ALWAYS GOOD FOR WEREWOLF.

>> HELPFUL HALLOWEEN DETAIL ICE THINK CAN HELP ANYONE WITH A VIV IT MIMAGINATION, NOT JUST KIDS.

>> I HOPE SO.

>> AND THE BOOK WRITTEN INTENTIONALLY IT'S NOT JUST A CHILD'S READ.

IT'S SOMETHING A CHILD AT HEART CAN APPRECIATE AND HAVE ON THEIR BOOK SHELF.

>> THERE ARE COMPLEX SUBJECTS IN HERE.

THE KUENG KONG CHAPTER I TALK ABOUT THE SQUARE KUBLAI AND WHY THAT MAKES KING KONG IMPOSSIBLE.

MOST KIDS DON'T GRAVITATE TOWARDS MATH SAY MONSTER, BUT MY HOPE, I CAN MAKE MATH AND SCIENCE OH RIDICULOUSLY FUN KIDS WILL LEARN THESE THINGS AND DON'T KNOW IT.

INTRIGUED BY IT.

>> ADULTS AS WELL.

HOW MUCH BACK RESEARCH DID YOU HAVE TO DO ABOUT THESE MONSTERS AND THEIR ORIGIN STORIES TO BE ABLE TO PUT SOME OF THESE PIECES TOGETHER?

>> IT WAS SO MUCH RESEARCH.

FIVE YEARS OF RESEARCH AND ALSO I USED A LOT OF EXPERT READERS.

SOME OF THE SUBJECTS ARE A BIT OVER MY HEAD.

THE ZOMBIE CHAPTER TALKS ABOUT NEUROSCIENCE.

WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE ZOMBIE BRAIN.

I'M NOT A NEUROSCIENTIST.

I'M JUST A WRITER.

SO I HAD TO CONSULT WITH THOSE PEOPLE.

THERE'S A LOT OF MEDICAL BACKGROUNDS.

I HAD TO CONSULT WITH PEOPLE IN MEDICAL FIELDS TO MAKE SURE I WAS GETTING IT RIGHT.

WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENS IF AN ARTERY IS PIERCED?

I NEED TO KNOW THOSE DETAILS.

I SPOKE TO CORONERS, BECAUSE THERE'S A CHAPTER ON DECOMPOSITION VERSUS VAMPIRES, HOW TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

>> OOH.

>> A LOT OF EXPERT READERS WHO HELPED ME WITH THIS BOOK.

>> OF COURSE, THE ALL-IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LIVING DEAD AND THE UNDEAD?

>> YES.

VERY IMPORTANT.

YOU NEED TO KNOW, KIDS, YOU SEE REDDISH BROWN FLURD CORNERS OF THE MOUTH THAT COULD BE PURGE FLUID.

NOT A VAMPIRE FEEDING.

SO THAT PERSON IS ACTUALLY DEAD.

DON'T NEED TO WORRY.

>> OH.

SEE, THERE YOU GO?

>> THERE YOU GO.

>> HELPFUL TIPS.

>> AND GREAT DINNER TABLE CONVERSATION, TOO!

>> AGAIN, I'M WONDERING WHO, EVEN THOUGH AS I WAS JUST SAYING, KNOW, CHILDREN OF ALL AGES CAN APPRECIATE THIS, BUT REALLY WHO'S YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE HERE?

BECAUSE THIS REALLY FEELS LIKE SOMETHING THAT THE -- EARLY TWEEN, PERHAPS 7, 8, 9, 10-YEAR-OLD WOULD JUST EAT UP?

>> UH-HUH.

WELL, THERE'S A SAYING CHILDREN'S BOOK AUTHORS WRITE THE BOOKS THEY WISH THEY HAD AS CHILDREN.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, I WAS A CHILD, I DIDN'T GRAVITATE TOWARDS SCIENCE.

SO MY IDEAL READER IS THAT READER WHO SAYS, AH, I'M NOT -- I DON'T WANT TO LEARN ABOUT SCIENCE, THE SQUARE KUBLAI AND FLEUR OH SCIENCE AND WHETHER BIGFOOT, THE ANSWER, POSSIBILITIES OF BIGFOOT.

MY OBJECTIVE, FOR THAT READER TO MAKE THESE SUBJECTS SO INTERESTING THAT THEY'LL LEARN AND NOT EVEN REALIZES THEY'RE LEARNING.

EVERYONE LOVES MONSTERS.

>> OF COURSE!

AND I THINK WE ALL PREFER THE ONES THAT ARE OF LURE AS OPPOSED TO IN REAL LIFE.

I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S ANY ONE STORY FROM EITHER RESEARCHING THIS BOOK OR YOUR OWN HISTORY WITH MONSTERS THAT STAYS WITH YOU THE MOST?

THAT'S YOUR FAVORITE?

>> YEAH.

SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THE GODZILLA CHAPTER WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO ME, BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW THE BACK STORY OF GODZILLA.

I DIDN'T KNOW IT CAME OUT OF THIS VERY REAL TRAGEDY OF THE ATOMIC BOMBS BEING DROPPED.

I WANTED THAT CHAPTER LAST, BECAUSE IT SAYS TO ME, MEN HAVE THE AMAZING ABILITY TO DESTRUCT.

WE ARE BEASTS INSIDE US.

WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE MONSTERS.

SO I THOUGHT IT WAS APROPOS AND MAYBE A PHILOSOPHICAL WAY TO END TO SAY THIS IS ALL FUN AND GAMES BUT NUCLEAR FALLOUTS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

>> UH-HUH.

OF COURSE, ALL OF THESE CREATURES DO EXIST IN FOLKLORE FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.

>> YES.

>> AND OF COURSE, I DON'T WANT TO LET YOU GO WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING YOU DID THE ILLUSTRATIONS FOR THIS BOOK.

>> OH, YEAH.

THANK YOU.

>> TELL ME ABOUT JUST THE PROCESS OF ILLUSTRATING THE WHOLE BOOK?

>> YEAH.

THAT TOOK A LONG TIME, TOO.

I HAVE A STRANGE WAY OF WORKING.

SO WHAT I DO IS I WILL DO A SKETCH.

I WILL SCAN IT IN.

AND THEN I WORK DIGITALLY IN A PROGRAM CALLED ADOBE ILLUSTRATOR CREATING VECTORS AND THING BRING MY OWN PAINTERLY TEXTURES ON TOP OF IT.

IT'S A THREE LAYERED PROCESS.

YOU GET FLAT ART WITH A LITTLE TAX CH TEXTURE TO IT.

>> HELPS MAKE THE CREATURES AND MONSTERS IF YOU WILL POP AND COME TO LIFE IN WAY THEY DON'T NORMALLY IN AN ILLUSTRATED BOOK.

LISTEN, I THINK THIS IS SUCH A GREAT BOOK.

IT IS DEFINITELY A GOOD FRIENDLY USER'S GUIDE FOR THE UPCOMING HALLOWEEN SEASON.

ANYONE WITH QUESTIONS, ABOUT, OF COURSE, MONSTERS AND HOW TO PREVENT ATTACKS FROM THEM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

♪ [ HOWLING ] ♪ ♪ [ SCREAMING ] >>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION,