>> Tonight our "MetroFocus" migrant crisis report continues with the debate over helping others or putting America first as angry protesters gather outside.

We take you in a migrant joke there for a look at the conditions they are fighting about.

Our migrants to blame for the city's biggest issues?

Or, have the problems been here all along?

"MetroFocus" starts right now.

>> This is "MetroFocus," with Rafael Pi Roman, Jack Ford, and Jenna Flanagan.

MetroFocus is made possible by The Peter G. Peterson and Joan Ganz Cooney Fund.

Filomen M. D'Agostino Foundation.

Barbara Hope Zuckerberg.

And by Jody and John Arnhold.

Bernard and Denise Schwartz.

Dr. Robert C. and Tina Sohn foundation.

The Ambrose Monell Foundation.

Estate of Roland Karlen.

Jack: the migrant crisis reached critical mass in New York City pitting the mayor, governor, and president against each other causing communities to plash across the city.

Last night we covered the impact that the arrival of over 100,000 migrants have had on the city's resources and neighborhoods and how much it will end up costing taxpayers.

Tonight we look at the ongoing debate between hoping to migrants or helping Americans first.

While some New Yorkers are protesting new shelters, others are working to support them, arguing that the city's problems existed long before any bus arrived from the southern border.

I am joined again by WABC New York reporter Stephan Kim, upper West side resident and a small business owner, Joe, and the director of teen TLC N.Y.C., and organization helping migrants.

Let's look at some policies that have been in place here that contributed in some fashion or another to the crisis.

Stephan, let me come to you first.

We often hear that New York City declared itself a sanctuary city.

Generally speaking, what does that mean?

>> Generally speaking, this goes back to the Trump Administration.

The idea was the city would welcome asylum-seekers and migrants.

I think for political reasons when Mayor Adams said this it put him into a box because now it is hard to describe things we have described.

Flyers at the border discouraging migrants.

You put yourself at odds with your own words.

This is where it becomes tricky politically for the mayor.

You say from the outset, open arms, sanctuary city.

Now all of a sudden maybe we cannot handle this.

Jack: Joe, as it is citizen -- as a citizen that has lived here for a long time, what do you think of the notion generally, and I'm not talking about the crisis we are talking about.

I do not think anybody when you say a sanctuary city or the notion of a right to housing that anybody ever anticipated this.

Generally speaking what you think of the idea of New York City declaring itself a sanctuary city?

Joe: I am not as opposed to it being a sanctuary city.

But I think the city needed to do more planning and having the affordable housing upfront.

There have been years and years of investments proposed investments in affordable housing and it has just not taken place.

I think Mayor de Blasio's wife was given a million dollars to look into this.

We don't see any results from that.

So, in summary, I would say the planning process is where the system breaks down.

There is no affordable housing.

When they are placing migrants or asylum-seekers in locations they needed to assess, are we putting them in a residential neighborhood or out on the island?

In the tent city they just built out there.

They could have put them on cruise ships.

They could have put them in a host of different locations.

But, Mary the type of individuals, the people with the neighborhood.

To give you an example, when they moved the young men out of the center on my block, they moved them to ramble silent.

Because, they were not behaving.

That was basically the answer.

They were very upset as they were leaving.

They were in a first-class location.

They had 1-2 people program.

They had common bathrooms and showers and things because it was a college dormitory.

They got the free laundry.

They got free meals, etc.. Why would they want to leave?

Jack: Ilze, let me come to you about New York City clearing itself Century City.

We in a situation where it is speaker for what you wish for because the designation was helpful to a lot of people but now we have a lot of people showing up and it would be hard-pressed to say, sanctuary city, not really.

Ilze: I think you have to be careful about using rhetoric you don't believe in.

Whether we have called it that or not, this city has always been a Century City.

People have disagreed and not been as welcoming, but I agree with what Joe just said.

The city has failed to plan for this.

This is a long time coming.

The shelter system has been in shambles for decades.

The lack of affordable housing in the city added to the homelessness problem.

When you add this international crisis, migrants moving from place to place all over the globe due to climate change and political disruption and all kinds of things.

When you pour that on top, of course you feel pain.

The city failed to plan for a long time and when we saw this coming.

I said earlier this was a surprise for us.

In reality I had a meeting at City Hall with a number of stakeholders in July, 2022.

We said this is coming.

We do not know when or how big but we have to start planning.

The city did not.

The city has still not come up with a plan.

It is in reactive mode.

It's constantly running from crisis to crisis saying we just need more money without ever being able to show why we are estimating $24 billion, how we would spend that money and that we would spend the mending responsibly as opposed to no-bid contracts.

So the city continues to scramble and be in crisis mode when it had every opportunity to plan and it should still be planning for what is coming down the pipe.

CeFaan: I want to add to the point, you brought up Randall's Island.

There is a reason migrants don't want to be in places like Randall's Island.

If you look around Manhattan they cannot work because until recently they did not have an authorized work permit.

The jobs they can find, largely, when you look around the eyeball test tells you it is food delivery work.

On Randall's Island, they don't have access to work.

In fairness to the mayor, the point about the work authorization, this is why they cannot move out of shelters and be self-sustaining.

I will quote the deputy mayor.

The administration's response has been, we are out of good options.

We only have bad options left.

We are at the bottom of the barrel.

That is a quote.

Whether you agree that is the right way to respond, their position is they are treading water.

They cannot keep up with this.

I think all sides agree the affordable housing crisis is contributing to all of this.

The reason the shelter system is overburdened is because the affordable housing prices has not been dealt with many years prior to this administration.

I think everybody would agree this problem built up long before these last two years.

The city was wholly unprepared for it for that reason.

Jack: an interesting and honest comment.

We are out of options.

It is nice to see that honesty but troubling to see the lack of optimism.

Rommel Ojeda,, you and your colleagues have spent time having conversations with migrants coming into the city.

What are you learning for them about why they have come to the U.S. and why they have come to New York City?

Rommel: the majority of people are fleeing violence, domestic violence, or if they belong to clinical group where they have to leave their country or they face persecution.

The reason they come from New York City, aside from being bused sometimes, is the language sometimes.

In New York City you can get away with speaking Spanish and learning English as you progress.

Also, it is something they consume in social media.

Saying, we will give you shelter here and help you back on your feet.

That was the case for a while and has been going on until we saw the flags being handed out at the border and the 60 day notices that we will put single men and women out of the shelters.

Then there is also family.

Some people have families here that are well established.

They come through the city.

They do not stay at the shelter.

They move along and go stay with their families.

Or, they end up leaving the city as soon as they get away to pay their bus bill, for example.

Because we have to keep in mind, 115,000 people have come in the past two years.

Only 60,000 people remained in the shelter system.

Usually, those people tend to be people that have family members here so they don't have assistants that could help them move along outside.

Jack: I talked about the store you did about the facility in Staten Island.

This is a temporary tent shelter in Queens.

Let's look at that.

CeFaan: as tempers flare outside the city's newest migrant tent city in Queens Village.

>> If you refuse to leave the roadway you will be placed under arrest.

CeFaan: tension building between Mayor Adams and Governor Hochul over the migrant crisis.

In a 12 page letter from the Governor's council, a response from a judge that ordered the state to identify its response to the city, the state ripped the Adams administration for dragging its feet, the first time we see cracks in the partnership.

>> They did not accept some of the help we offered.

That is the statement of fact.

I can show you some of the sites we offered them months ago.

They are still available.

CeFaan: there are dozens of sites on the state list including aqueduct in Queens and Riverside State Park in Harlem.

>> We will sit down and show them why we could not use those places.

She stated getting invoices in word -- were taking too long.

We will sit down and show her why it took that long.

CeFaan: the state accuses the administration of ignoring a suggestion in June of last year to set up a tent city for adult migrant men.

The mayor and governor today are taking turns aside Ching -- massaging their friendship downplaying the friction.

>> People want to see the governor and I-5 treated that will not happen.

I like her.

She likes me.

>> People enjoy in the media identifying any disagreement as a major fight.

The relationship is strong.

We are here to help.

CeFaan: this behind me opened yesterday and one is being built on Randall's Island now.

They are being paid for by the state.

In Queens Village CeFaan Kim channel seven eyewitness news.

Jack: what did you find in terms of the conditions here?

And I asked you this previously.

Were you surprised by what you found?

CeFaan: let me caveat that by saying we did a tour of the Randall's Island and the one at Creed more.

We only got to see them for about an hour.

We don't have eyeballs inside there after the first week or so.

But, based on what we saw, look, this is a facility that while it is remote and not anywhere near the services they would want to be near, it is heated.

It is shelter.

There is laundry service and all that.

The main difference that we ask about, what is different about this one versus Randall's Island, the administration claims we learned ways to cost that here and there.

It might be like the first herk where they had different catered meals, different Latin cuisines rotated out.

We cut down on some of those things.

The first one on Randall's Island you saw couches with text boxes.

You did not see that the second time.

The administration cut some of the fat.

Reporters don't have access to these weeks, days, or months after the fact.

We are getting in there when it is brand-new out-of-the-box.

That is the only thing we are seeing.

Jack: Joe, I mentioned in the introduction you are a resident of the bedside and -- Westside and you have a restaurant you run.

We are talking about the impact the migrant crisis has had on New York.

What is the impact you have seen on your business?

Joe: Over all there is a perception problem.

We have had an increase in crime in New York.

I have seen traffic go down significantly along Columbus Avenue.

From a business point of view I am still seeing a fair amount of international travelers coming into the restaurant.

I am not seeing as much of the surrounding suburbs and Connecticut and New Jersey.

That traffic is diminishing.

A lot of it has to do with we are right by Lincoln Center and the beacon theater.

There is a lot of activity in our neighborhood.

They are not enjoying them anymore because they don't want to come to New York.

There are probably 500 motor scooters everywhere.

They have all these Street facilities for restaurants taking up all of the parking.

The streets are filthy.

The city is a mess.

I want to add one thing to what was said earlier about work permits.

I think work permits will be an even bigger problem.

Jack: why?

Joe: Because, the way I understand it is right now adult men have to leave these facilities in 30 days.

They will get a work permit.

What type of work will they get?

Delivering for Grubhub or DoorDash.

They will not make enough money to live even on the outskirts of New York City.

As a result they will end up living on the streets and we will look like San Francisco in about six months.

Jack: go ahead, CeFaan.

Then, Ilze I want to get your take on this deal with the federal government saying we will change the rules and you can get work permits.

CeFaan: to Joe's points, that is one of the talking point from the Republican side.

This will encourage more migrants to come.

Time will tell.

I want to raise this point.

It's not just a migrant issue, but about the city end of the current state.

We just saw the MTA numbers.

We often say we know the city is back when ridership is backed pre-COVID levels.

We reached that.

I have always made a half joke that the real barometer for when the city is that is if you go to any Duane Reade or CVS on the upper West side you see armed security guards with deodorant locked up.

The other day Target announced they are closing stores in Manhattan.

Just across the river in New Jersey five minutes away, I assure you, you're not having to get a clerk to unlock deodorant to make a purchase.

The general state of the city and the crime is relevant to Joe's point.

Jack: Ilze, your thoughts on the efficacy of the work permits?

The idea was it was heralded as a step, not the step, but a step that might alleviate problems to get people out so they can work and start earning money and start affording their lives.

But as Joe says, this is New York City.

It's really hard to afford to live here.

What do you think about that proposal?

Ilze: I want to address what I am hearing that sounds a little like scapegoating.

There are a lot of problems in this city.

I hate going to Duane Reade and having to have someone help me get deodorant off the counter.

But that is not the migrants fault.

I am not suggesting you are saying that.

I think viewers listening to this may make that connection and I think the mayor would like people to make that connection.

The mayor has expressly scapegoated the migrants saying because it will cost $4 billion, though he is not showing his arithmetic for that.

But because it will cost $4 billion a year we will see other services suffer.

Now every time there is a problem with sanitation, Joe saying the streets are filthy with the subway not running on time, with everything else it will be the migrants fault.

That's really unfortunate.

Because, this is already a very vulnerable population.

For the mayor to be putting all the problems of this city onto their feet is dangerous.

Jack: good point.

This gets me to something else I want to ask.

Rommel, we have learned, sometimes painfully, that words matter, especially words from people that are in the public eye.

We can point to January 6 as evidence for that.

We have seen some critics say of mayor Adams, specifically saying , this can destroy the city.

We have seen people say, that's dangerous.

That could create a scenario where now you might have indeed not just anger, but violence, directed and migrants by people that are saying, the mayor said their presence here could destroy the city that I live in.

What do you think about that?

Rommel: it is really very dangerous rhetoric to say that.

We have seen an increase in anti-immigrant sentiment in all neighborhoods, basically.

We have shutters opening up and also centers being used at churches that were not used for four years for example.

Yes, words do matter.

I think we are going back to the notion of scapegoating the migrants.

If we look back to the pandemic the Department of sanitation was lacking the budget to actually clean the city.

A lot of mutual aid teamed up to clean up the streets right outside my house too.

It is one of the neighborhoods doing pretty well according to the statistics.

So we have a lot of problems coming from the pandemic.

Right now we are seeing this being exacerbated by throwing money to no-bid contracts left and right.

But if we are escape -- are scapegoating this group we have to address that because it's not their fault.

At the end of the day we already had a homeless population exceeding numbers in shutters for decades.

The streets were already dirty.

I am sure you can check the data on the times the Department of sanitation was called to just clean up.

Same with the parks.

They always needed more maintenance.

I feel now because we hear migrants from every single region we govern we can point a finger at something.

But the thing is, I want to touch on work permits as well.

Migrants want to work.

We saw this last year when they were traveling to Florida to clean up after the hurricane damage to cities.

Now we see people once they get there were -- work permit and they cannot find work here they are going to Albany, going out of the state.

I think it will alleviate the amount of people we have in the shelters.

Will it solve of portable housing -- affordable housing?

Definitely not.

Even people born here with good jobs are spending 50% of their income on rent.

That is an issue on its own.

I feel like the 15,000 people that can apply for TPS and will be able to get work permits faster they will have more options.

They can say, hey, New York City is so expensive for me.

Perhaps I can travel elsewhere.

We are -- we have organizations that are helping them find housing in Albany, moving forward with the job.

I think they're just need to be more coordination between all agencies on a local level and also the federal level because I feel other states can benefit from migrants that want to work and have work authorization permanence.

Jack: back to an earlier point.

I understand how rhetoric coming out of City Hall can make this contraction -- connection to scapegoating migrants.

In the mayor's defense, and I don't mean to be his spokesperson here, but I think they would argue that they are trying to scapegoat the White House.

But I understand the point here is a viewer or reader can make a connection to the migrants themselves.

This is a political game he has been dealt.

In fairness it is a federal problem.

I think he is reacting, to use a word used before on this panel, reacting to a situation that is unprecedented, in fairness.

Jack: I have about 1.5 minutes left.

Rommel, we talked before about being in a room with some of these people.

You could be in a room with governmental leaders that could make the decisions here.

What would you say needs to be done?

Again, it's not the answer, but perhaps, an answer that helps us alleviate this crisis?

Rommel: a lot of times this topic comes up you talk about the money, right?

We need better oversight of the money and how it is being implemented.

Also we need to stop the response of acting on emergency.

We are in emergency mode just throwing money here and there without thinking how much it could cost.

It will be good long run.

Unfortunately we live in a very expensive city.

There will be more people facing housing and security.

So, we need to find a way to build a system where we can move people from temporary housing to affordable housing and hopefully help them sustain it.

Jack: Joe, I will give you the last word.

Joe: Kemal Harris was chartered -- Kamala Harris was charged with finding and repairing the root causes for migration.

That has not happened.

We do not know what she has done.

From our point of view at the United States we have to close the border.

I am not saying we should not accept asylum-seekers.

If we are all immigrants.

When my grandparents came over they had to have a place to live and a job before they got here.

That is not the same as opening the door and saying come on in, we will give you all kinds of free stuff.

Of course they will come here.

So the first mission is, let's get the border closed.

Then, let's get immigration processes back in order.

Jack: there are so many issues.

I want to thank all of you.

You all contributed to a very thoughtful conversation today about a very difficult and complex issues that are not easily solvable.

But I think the thoughts we heard from all you today hope is put this in perspective and understand better.

You can never solve anything if you do not first understand the extent of the problem.

Thank you for spending time with us.

We hope to talk with you again in the future.

I expect this is something we will wrestle with continuously before we get it resolved.

Be well.

>> Metro focus is made possible by the Joan Ganz Cooney Fund Filomen M. D'Agostino Foundation Barbara Hope Zuckerberg Jody and John Arnold Bernard and Denise Schwartz Dr. Robert C. and Tina Sohn Foundation The Ambrose Monell Foundation Estate of Roland Karlen