Jack: Tonight, remembering 9/11.

A photographer who documented the changing face of lower Manhattan for over four decades shares her unforgettable black-and-white pictures from that day and of the area in the 1980's, 1990's and beyond.

A fire fighting family carrying on the legacy of the highest killed in the attacks.

"MetroFocus" starts right now.

♪ >> This is "MetroFocus," with Rafael Pi Roman, Jack Ford, and Jenna Flanagan.

MetroFocus is made possible by The Peter G. Peterson and Joan Ganz Cooney Fund.

Filomen M. D'Agostino Foundation.

Barbara Hope Zuckerberg.

And by Jody and John Arnhold.

Bernard and Denise Schwartz.

Dr. Robert C. and Tina Sohn foundation.

The Ambrose Monell Foundation.

Estate of Roland Karlen.

Jack: Good evening, -- Rafael: Good evening and welcome to "MetroFocus."

I'm Rafa room on.

Documenting lower Manhattan's transformation from the rough-and-tumble to the playground for the rich.

In the process, are often striking and always moving black and white photographs have captured a unique UT that often goes unnoticed.

Her new book of photography, "a falling off place," turns her lens to a seemingly unglamorous part, the Fulton Fish market of the 1980's and the unchanging streetscapes of the 1990's and the post-9/11 lower Manhattan of the new millennium.

Her photographs have been exhibited at MoMA, the Brooklyn Museum, and at other venues here and around the world and she joins us now.

Barbara, welcome to the program.

Let me start with the obvious question.

How did you decide -- why did you decide to put this collection of photographs in this book?

What moved you?

Barbara: Several years ago I was asked by the Howard Hughes Corporation and a celebrity chef to do an installation of my photographs at the newly renovated tin building.

So as a result of that, I had to go through all of my early photographs and work on the project and proposal.

In that activity, I realized I had all of these photographs that I had not considered before.

That was basically the impetus.

Rafael: The book is divided into three parts, the 80's, 90's, and new millennium.

Let's start with part one, the 1980's which is almost completely dominated by the Fulton Fish market.

A neighborhood you called the market, a place you spent a lot of time at.

What drew you to this world that was dominated by gritty, working-class men, and in the background, always the connections to the mob or rumors to the connections to the mob?

What drew you to it?

Barbara: I moved into that area which at that time was largely uninhabited.

But if you walked around at night, you would start to see this uninhabited neighborhood come alive with all these very intense men, working with their physical hands and doing physical labor.

I was very very intrigued by what was going on down there and I felt through my whole life very competitive with men and I wanted to really try and do a story about their lives and what went on down there.

Rafael: From the intimate portraits you capture, of the place and of the people, it is obvious that they welcomed you into their community.

How difficult was that?

Barbara: It took years.

You have to remember that the most important thing to know about this situation was at the time that I started photographing down there, it was the time when Rudolph Giuliani was a federal prosecutor doing his investigations into criminality at Fulton Fish market, the mob.

So it was sort of like a doubly difficult situation because the men thought I was a federal agent.

Rafael: Wow.

Well, obviously, you won the mover and the portraits are unbelievable.

They are very powerful.

These guys come off as a cool and confident.

Barbara: They were.

That was their character.

Rafael: And they are almost like from the 19th century or the early 20th century rather than the 1980's like the fish market itself is.

Is there one back story from one of these guys like Mikey the watchman or Vinny who looks like a young Paul Newman?

Barbara: Yes.

Something flashed right in front of me.

When I first started doing this project, I would go around and give the workers that I photographed, I remember one morning I went into the tin building.

I was going to give this photograph, my eight by 10 to this guy called Jimmy red.

He wasn't at the stand.

One of the workers says, "he ain't here no more, Barbara.

He's gone."

What does that mean?

He was murdered the night before.

That's the story.

Rafael: Wow.

There must be a bunch of them.

I wish we had time for all of them.

The pictures are so powerful, people should really look at this book.

Let's move on to part two.

There's no particular place that dominates your photographs of the 1990's like the Fulton Fish market dominated the 80's.

What is a theme that you think unites the photographs you collect in the second set?

Barbara: Carl Weiss Grove of the downtown alliance characterized lower Manhattan in the 90's as a place of uncertainty and decay.

So looking at a lot of my images that were personal to me, his point of view fit right in with the kind of photographs I was taking.

For example, walking around the Bowery, seeing places where they sold restaurant supplies and meat slicer shops, all of these warehouses that were condemned, that mysterious fires broke out in.

That is the glue, the uncertainty, a clock that never moved in time, security guards walking around in a fog with nobody there.

As a visual artist, it's important, I think good photographers use images as a metaphor for something else.

Rafael: Something I didn't know that you write about in the books is that there were a lot of suspicious fires set at lower Manhattan in the 1990's kind of like happen in the Bronx in the 1970's, by the landlords themselves, but we are not going to claim that because we don't know.

The fact of the matter is some of the photographs, those are terrible things, but they are beautiful.

There's one that I'm thinking of where you see the twin towers in the background and the smoke is coming up like a fog.

It's beautiful.

I feel guilty for thinking this terrible fire is beautiful.

Should I feel guilty?

Barbara: No.

Because we find beauty in everything.

All you have to do is look, and really look.

That particular fire was in 1996.

That was the Arson supposedly at the tin building, the old fish market.

That fire was so huge that it enveloped the whole of lower Manhattan.

So what I did, I was home that day, I used to do a lot of darkroom work.

I ran up on the bridge and photographed it against the World Trade Center, not knowing that a few years later, you know.

Rafael: So let's go to part three.

Part three contains images of the new millennium.

I assumed it would be dominated by 9/11 and the aftermath, but isn't.

Even though you have terrific pictures of 9/11 and the aftermath.

So what do you think does tithe the photographs in this section?

Barbara: That's a very good question.

I thought about this.

That's why I put the Jane Jacobs's in the beginning.

-- Jane Jacobs statement in the beginning.

What does it mean for a metropolis like New York or parts of it to go under?

How do you come back?

Some of the photographs I chose were very timely, including this interview with a woman who was very intimate with some of these mafia guys and their relationship to Rudolph Giuliani.

What ties it together for me is the coming back and the sad, ill placed conspiracy theories and demonstrations.

No, we don't want the most limb building next to where the World Trade Center once stood -- Muslim building next to where the world traitor once stood.

All of these, in spite of challenges point to a new rebirth.

In that new rebirth of the building boom and real estate, it is up to the viewer to decide what we lost Lane what will continue to endure.

Rafael: You do have a number of 9/11 related photographs.

There is one that you captured the moment where the second plane hit and there's one the day after that you called a glimpse of hell, 9:12 of night.

You also have photographs of Superstorm Sandy just before and the aftermath.

You go back to the Fulton Fish market in 2005, in fact the day before the fish market was moved to the Bronx.

How was that for you personally?

Barbara: It was like the whole experience for me to watch this cyclical thing about life and business and so much vitality, and then to see it become a shell of itself, including the photographs in 20 of the disintegration of the market building.

It is she experienced -- Shakespearean.

It is tragic.

For me, I felt like, I just learned so much from these men.

If you go up to the Bronx, a lot of the old-timers, the ones I worked with, either they passed, they are still remaining in jail , but some of them wanted to leave.

Others really missed it.

Rafael: Those photos have kind of an Edward Hopper kind of sadness.

Barbara: He's one of my heroes.

Rafael: We have less than a minute, so as brief as you can make it, I want to ask the final question which is what did the passage of time captor -- capture and all these photos?

What did they reveal to you that perhaps you did not know before about change and time was Mark we've got about 40 seconds.

Barbara: The whole point of the book is that it's almost like a rhetorical thing.

It's up to us what we save, what we preserve, what we let go of.

I'm just a vessel.

All I do is present the pictures .

It is up to the viewer to think long and hard.

Rafael: I tell you, that's what it does.

When you look at this book.

"A falling off place, the transformation of lower Manhattan."

Thank you for coming Barbara.

Barbara: It was an absolute pleasure.

And have me back, I have more to say.

Rafael: For generations, one family has been at the heart of the New York City fire Department.

From the dawn of the fire truck, to the 1970's when the Bronx was burning, to the devastation of the September 11 attacks.

Bill Feehan was the highest member of the commission and two decades later, his legacy lives on thanks in part to his family.

Their extraordinary service and how it reflects the history of the department is the foundation of author Brian McDonald's new book, "five floors up, a ."

He joins us on the program.

>> Thank you for having me on the program.

Rafael: First of all, why is the title of the book "five floors up?"

What is the significance and what do they say about the dangers firefighters face everyday?

>> The second generation main person in the story is chief William Feehan.

In the early 1970's, he was promoted to captain and assigned to a firehouse in Harlem and in the 1970's, the Bronx was burning.

It wasn't just the Bronx but neighborhoods in the city were on fire.

He walked into the firehouse the first time to see a crew of firefighters he was going to lead, naked, sitting out a table.

It was their way of having him the initiation.

He passed the initiation, he just got his meal and went up to his office.

But the neighborhood where the firehouse was was lined with five-story tenement buildings.

Firefighters will tell you, those are the toughest fires to fight.

Small Harwood -- hallways, stairs made out of wood, lots of windows.

When they get a call at a tenement, they would say our luck will be on the fifth floor, five floors deep into the apartment which is the toughest place to go.

They came up with the expression, five floors up and five D. -- five deep.

Rafael: One of the things your book underlines, we all know it, but your book shows, how dangerous it is for these men every day.

As we've said, the chief protagonist is chief Bill Feehan and we will get more into his story in a moment.

You start with the story of his father, the man who began the firefighting dynasty.

Tell us about him and how he reflected the FDNY of his time.

>> He was a latecomer.

There were circumstances surrounding it.

He was the youngest of 10 children of an Irish immigrant family.

He took care of his mother until she died.

He joined the department when he was 34.

He was a latecomer.

But as soon as he got to the department, he knew what he wanted to do.

He was ferocious as a firefighter.

One of the things I noticed interviewing firefighters, there is a class of firefighter who will stay and will not look to be promoted because they love the action of running into burning buildings.

It has nothing to do with ambition.

They want to fight fires.

The first William Feehan was that kind of firefighter.

He had what I call the hero gene.

He would run into a burning building with no regard for himself.

I believe he was hospitalized at least four times.

It was a dangerous time to be a firefighter, for sure.

Rafael: So his son was also a hero.

Unlike his father, I don't know if he had ambition, but tell us a little bit about him.

Give us the highlights of the Chiefs FDNY career.

Brian: A remarkable career.

A unique career.

The only member of the firefighter who held every rank in the department including Commissioner in the 1990's.

I think his wife had a lot to do with it.

I think he would have stayed as a firefighter as well.

He loved the action, but he wanted to start a family and his wife was a force to be reckoned with at home and she wanted to make more money.

Firefighters were woefully underpaid.

When you try and raise a family on that salary, you have to not only go up the ladder, but you have to work second jobs.

Firefighters across the country actually, they are famous for moonlighting with other jobs.

Chief Feehan is no exception.

Rafael: Let's turn to 9/11.

Which obviously our viewers would guess is the most moving and powerful section of the book.

Learning on the moment -- morning of 9/11 that his father had rushed to the twin towers, Billy called his concern about his dad that someone so high at the chain of command and 71 years old to boot would not be put in harm's way, but of course he was and paid the ultimate price for being in the middle of it all.

How did that happen?

How does a 71-year-old Deputy Commissioner windup in the thick of it?

The way I was thinking about it reading your book was as if Eisenhower was in the landing boats on D-Day.

Brian: I write in the book that his face felt the heat of a thousand fires.

People take me to task about that, but if it is an exaggeration, it's not much of one.

He did not know any other way.

When Billy first thought his father would be safe, on further consideration he knew his father would be in the midst of it.

There was no choice.

He was in the north tower which was the first command post.

The Commissioner did not want him there.

Vanessa went over to the chief and said listen, let's put you somewhere where you can manage things.

Chief Feehan had very short words that translated means, you've got to be kidding me.

Rafael: And to add insult to injury, the Commissioner actually asked him to give another firefighter his helmet.

That didn't go so well.

Brian: No.

He might have well ask him for his pants.

It was not going to fly.

As it turned out, after the first tower came down, it severely damaged the Marriott Hotel.

Bill Feehan along with the chief of the department and Ray Downey, a legendary Fire Chief, were orchestrating a rescue operation for firefighters trapped and that's when the north tower came down and killed all three of them.

Rafael: At least his family has the consolation of knowing that chief Feehan, that would have been the way he would want to go .

From everything you write, it seems that's the truth, correct?

Brian: Yes.

The next day, Billy, the younger Billy, went to see where his dad was killed.

It was still a crime scene.

A smoking, dangerous place, but he got to where his father was killed and he said he could have stayed there all night.

He said he felt like it was his father's last breath that hung in the air.

It was very emotional.

He tells the story 21 years later and the tears come down.

Rafael: You write about a number of fires that occurred over the years.

Fires which contain lessons that if they had been heeded, would probably have saved a lot of lives and certainly the lives of firefighters.

What were those lessons that were not heated?

Why were they not heated and had they been heeded since 9/11?

Brian: The short answer is yes.

I did end of the -- an event with chief Joseph Pfeiffer who was the first chief.

If you remember, the French filmmakers were following the chief that day.

A remarkable man, American hero.

He worked tirelessly to solve the problems that showed on 9/11 including the communication between the agencies.

There were police and police helicopters all over the buildings warning the police command that the buildings were going to come down and the warning never got to the fire department.

So there's a lot of culture differences between the departments, but the structure was wrong.

They've done an enormous's amount of repair.

God for bid it should happen again, but the same thing wouldn't.

Rafael: Communication is key.

As you point out, there were signs that skyscrapers faced with severe fires could be vulnerable, but people thought they wouldn't be even as late as 911.

Brian: Chief Feehan was first Deputy Commissioner in 1990 three and went to the World Trade Center bombing that blew a seven-story deep hole under the building.

He was convinced even that the buildings would never come down.

They thought the first building would hit the second building in a domino fashion, the terrorists.

That was their aim.

Feehan was confident the building would not come down.

However, he had responded to the one New York Plaza fire, a skyscraper in the financial district.

The fire had worked the struts -- the structure of it.

That building would have come down had the fire been as hot as the fire at the World Trade Center.

Rafael: In your book, you talk about two other generations of Feehan.

His son John and son-in-law Brian.

Plus his grandson.

What is his name?

Brian: Connor.

Rafael: Connor.

They reflect the same kind of qualities, exceptional qualities that chief Feehan did.

You also write that the FDNY did not always -- or had had its own problems.

Sexism, racism, nepotism.

Have those problems been overcome?

Brian: I think slowly but surely.

No one will accuse the fire department of being ahead of the curve when it comes to representing the city, but in Connor's class, there was the most women who passed the Academy and went on to the fire department.

It was also a test over 50% of applicants were minority.

That's a great, great service for the city that we are getting with a fire department like that.

It is changing, slowly, but changing.

Rafael: Finally, with the FDNY modernizing and making changes, do you think a dynasty like the Feehan's we will continue to see in the future, or do you think the dynasties are a thing of the past?

Brian: I don't think it will be Irish families or Italian families like you see.

There's a chance, but recently I was reading about a regeneration of black families of New York City firefighters.

One of the things that surprised me doing the research was how much fun firefighters have.

Yes, they have dangerous jobs, no doubt about it, but all of them love to go to work.

When the kids see their parents loving what they do, that makes the kids want to do the same thing and that's why these generations occur.

Rafael: We will have to end it there.

Thank you so much for joining us.

It is a wonderful book.

I hope a lot of people go out and buy.

Thank you.

Brian: Thanks a lot.

Jack: Thank you for tuning into "MetroFocus."

You can take our award-winning program with you wherever you go with MetroFocus the podcast.

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♪ >> "MetroFocus" is made possible by Filomen M. D'Agostino Foundation Barbara Hope Zuckerberg, and by Jody and John Arnhold, or nard and Denise Schwartz.

Dr. Robert C. and Tina Sohn foundation.

The Ambrose Monell Foundation.

Estate of Roland Karlen.

♪