>> QUEEN ELIZABETH II, HER LIFE, HER LEGACY AND THE FUTURE OF THE MONARCHY, PLUS HER SPECIAL CONNECTION TO THE U.S. "METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ ♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

TONIGHT THE BRITISH PUBLIC AND MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD MOURN THE DEATH OF QUEEN ELIZABETH II.

THE LONGEST REIGNING MONARCH IN BRITISH HISTORY DIED THURSDAY AT 96 YEARS OLD AFTER HOLDING THE THRONE FOR MORE THAN 70 YEARS.

HER LIFE SPANNED A PERIOD OF MASSIVE POLITICAL CHANGE FROM THE SECOND WORLD WAR TO THE DIS PLANTLING OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE AND THE UK'S EXIT FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION.

SHE MET WITH MORE THAN A DOZEN U.S. PRESIDENTS SETTING OUT TO BRING THE BRITISH MONARCHY INTO THE 20th AND 21st CENTURIES.

SHE VISITED NEW YORK THREE TIMES AND WAS PROCLAIMED AN HONORARY NEW YORKER.

THROUGH IT ALL SHE BALANCED HER ROLE AS QUEEN AND A MATRIARCH OF A LARGE AND STRIEMS TROUBLED FAMILY.

HER SON CHARRED NOW 73 SUCCEEDS HER AS THE KING OF ENGLAND, BUT WHAT WILL THAT MEAN FOR THE NEW RULER AND FOR THE FUTURE OF THE THRONE?

WILL THE WORLD COME TO ACCEPT KING CHARLES AND QUEEN CONSORT CAMILLA AND WILL HIS REIGN LIVE UP TO HIS MOTHER'S?

AND WILL WILLIAM AND HARRY'S WARRING PROVE TO BE TOO SHAKY FOR THE CROWN?

IN THE AGE OF SOCIAL MEDIA TRANSPARENCY WILL WE BE GRANTED TO GREATER ACCESS TO THE ROYAL FAMILY?

JOINING ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS TRACY BOREMAN, A ROYAL HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR OF "CROWN AND CENTER: A NEW HISTORY OF THE BRITISH MONARCHY FROM WILLIAM THE CON KERRER TO ELIZABETH II."

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> I'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME KRISTEN, A ROYAL WATCHER AND CO-HOST OF NEWS WEEK'S THE ROYAL REPORT PODCAST.

KRISTEN, IT IS GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> AND WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ROUND OUT OUR ROUND TABLE WITH PROFESSOR SEAL ONTESS THE AUTHOR OF "ROYAL FEVER: THE BRITISH MONARCHY IN CONSUMER CULTURE."

SHE IS ALSO A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF I WILL LOI.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS," TOO.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO, TRACY, I WANT TO START WITH YOU AND WE REALLY WANT TO GET SORT OF THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS MONUMENTOUS MOMENT OF THE END OF THE SECOND ELIZABETHAN ERA.

>> IT'S HUGELY SIGNIFICANT, HAVING JUST WRITTEN ABOUT A THOUSAND YEARS OF MONARCHY I CAN SAY THAT THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED MOMENT BECAUSE THE QUEEN BROKE SO MANY RECORDS, NOT JUST THE LONGEST REIGNING MONARCH, BUT THE LONGEST SERVING HEAD OF STATE IN EUROPE.

SHE, OF COURSE, WAS THE LONGEST TO LIVE MONARCH.

SO THE RECORDS GO ON.

AND SO THIS REALLY IS A MOMENT AND IT'S ONE THAT OF COURSE WE KNEW WOULD COME ONE DAY, AND YET IT STILL SEEMS JUST DEEPLY SHOCKING AND THERE IS A SENSE OF DISBELIEF AND THAT THE WORLD HAS SOMEHOW SHIFTED.

AND VIEWING THIS AS A HISTORIAN, I CAN ABSOLUTELY APPRECIATE THE SIGNIFICANCE, BUT ON A PERSONAL LEVEL AS WELL, THERE'S A REAL SENSE OF LOSS.

I WAS AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE EARLIER TODAY AND THERE WAS SUCH A STRANGE EERIE ATMOSPHERE.

IT WAS CROWDED WITH PEOPLE.

YOU HAD TO QUEUE TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR BUCKINGHAM PALACE.

BUT THEN THERE WAS THIS SILENCE AND IT WAS REALLY QUITE EXTRAORDINARY.

>> UNBELIEVABLE, I'M SURE.

SILL, YOUR THOUGHTS AS WELL ON THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PASSING.

>> WELL, I THINK WE'VE LOST THE WORLD'S GRANDMOTHER.

SHE WAS THE SORT OF VOICE OF REASSURANCE AND CONSTANCY.

WHENEVER WE WERE FACING TURMOIL, WHICH OF COURSE IN THE LAST 70 YEARS THERE WAS PLENTY OF TURMOIL, GLOBALLY, WITHIN BRITAIN, WE HAD THE QUEEN IN HER TWEED SKIRTS AND HER CORGIS AND HER PREDICTABLE SCHEDULE AND HER CHRISTMAS BROADCASTS AND, YOU KNOW, REACHING OUT TO THE WORLD AS THIS PILLAR OF THIS ROYAL BRAND, WHICH HAS SUCH POPULARITY GLOBALLY.

THEY WERE BUILDING CITIES IN CHINA WITH STATUES TO THE QUEEN AND PRINCESS DIANA FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN BECAUSE OF THE ANGLOPHILIA THAT KIND OF REINS AROUND THE WORLD.

SHE WAS THE PILLAR OF THIS ROYAL FAMILY BRAND AND NOW THE BRAND HAS TO SORT OF FIGURE OUT ARE WE GOING TO REVOLVE AROUND KING CHARLES III IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE DID THE QUEEN.

>> OF COURSE.

AND, KRISTEN, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT WAY OF DESCRIBING HER.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID SHE WAS LIKE ENGLAND AND THE COMMONWEALTH AT LEAST THE GRANDMA.

THE REACTION, I GUESS, IS VERY VARIED TO HER PASSING, BUT AT LEAST HOW DO YOU SEE IT AFFECTING CULTURALLY?

>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE LOST AN ICON, SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN THERE FOR AS LONG AS ALMOST ALL OF US HAVE BEEN ALIVE.

SHE HAS BEEN THERE.

SHE HAS BEEN A ROCK AND SHE ALSO WAS KIND OF THE LAST OF THE OLD SCHOOL RULERS.

SHE CAME TO THE THRONE AT A TIME WHERE WE STILL KIND OF HAD REFERENCE IN PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF POWER WE DIDN'T PUSH BACK VERY MUCH AGAINST THEM AND DIDN'T QUESTION THEM THE SAME WAY WE DO NOW.

WE DIDN'T TRY TO TAKE THEM DOWN A NOTCH OR TAP THEIR PHONES OR FIND OUT ABOUT THEIR PERSONAL BUSINESS IN THE WAY WE HAVE WITH HER CHILDREN.

SHE WAS PART OF ANOTHER ERA BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO THINK ABOUT HOW SHE WORKED OVER THE YEARS TO MAKE HERSELF FIT INTO WHATEVER ERA SHE WAS IN.

SHE MADE THE FIRST LONG-DISTANCE UNASSISTED PHONE CALL IN THE UK AT ONE POINT AND UP UNTIL A FEW WEEKS AGO WAS STILL TAKING OFFICIAL VISITS BY ZOOM.

THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO REALLY TRIED IN EVERY ERA TO DO WHAT SHE COULD AND YET ALSO BE VERY STABLE, KEEP IT CLOSE TO THE VEST, BE UNKNOWABLE AND JUST BE A ROCK.

>> YOU KNOW, TRACY, SHE WAS INCREDIBLY STABLE AND THAT SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ADMIRED THE MOST ABOUT HER.

JUST FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, HOW DID HER STABILITY THEN REINFORCE, PERHAPS, A SENSE OF SAFETY, MAYBE, FOR THE BRITISH PEOPLE AND HER SUBJECTS?

>> I THINK WE CAME TO RELY ON IT UTTERLY, THAT CONSTANCY, THE SENSE THAT THERE'S A SAFE PAIR OF HANDS, THERE'S A CONTINUITY IN THIS RAPIDLY CHANGING, OFTEN FRIGHTENING WORLD, SHE WAS THERE, THIS GOLDEN THREAD RUNNING THROUGH GENERATIONS AS ONE STATESMAN DESCRIBED HER.

AND I THINK PEOPLE DID DRAW AN AWFUL LOT OF COMFORT FROM THAT.

SHE GAVE SPEECHES AT MOMENTS OF CRISIS, NOTABLY THE RECENT PANDEMIC, AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE A MONARCHIST, I THINK JUST THAT SENSE OF STABILITY THAT SHE BROUGHT WILL BE HOW SHE IS REMEMBERED ALONGSIDE, OF COURSE, HER EXTRAORDINARY DUTY.

I CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER MONARCH IN THE THOUSAND YEAR HISTORY OF THE BRITISH CROWN WHO WAS STILL WORKING TWO DAYS BEFORE THEIR DEATH.

>> VERY, VERY TRUE.

SILL, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND I ALSO WANT TO ADD IN SOME HISTORICAL CONTEXT HERE, THAT ELIZABETH WAS NOT JUST A STABILIZING FIGURE, BUT SHE SEEMED TO MEAN SO MUCH MORE TO NOT JUST THE BRITISH PEOPLE BUT AGAIN GLOBALLY.

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER MONARCH, PERHAPS, AT LEAST IN THE BRITISH MONARCHY, THAT'S BEEN ABLE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF IMPACT FOR SO LONG?

>> WELL, NO, AND I THINK PART OF IT IS THE KINDS OF MEDIA WE HAVE NOW BECAUSE THESE -- YOU KNOW, INTERESTINGLY WHEN THE QUEEN -- WHEN HER CORONATION OCCURRED IN 1953, MOST -- A LOT OF PEOPLE IN BRITAIN DIDN'T HAVE TELEVISIONS YET, AND HER CORONATION WAS ONE OF THE -- WAS THE EVENT THAT LED TO PEOPLE JUST BUYING TELEVISIONS SO THEY COULD SEE THE -- THE CEREMONY AND THE FACT THAT THEY SET UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE SO THAT MANY AREAS IN THE BRITISH ISLES, WHICH DIDN'T HAVE RECEPTION, COULD SEE IT.

SO THAT'S JUST A GREAT EXAMPLE OF SHE REALLY WAS KIND OF -- BEGAN SORT OF THE -- YOU KNOW, THERE WAS -- THERE WAS RADIO, BUT TELEVISION ALL THE WAY THROUGH ALL THIS CRAZY SOCIAL MEDIA, ALL THESE AREAS WE HAVE.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS.

I THINK THE OTHER REASON IS THAT YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, LEARN ABOUT THE QUEEN AND REALLY ESSENTIALLY CAPTURE ALL THE GREAT ASPECTS OF BRITISHNESS.

TRADITION, A LITTLE BIT OF TWEETINESS, HER HUMOR, YOU KNOW, THE TWO SKITS THAT SHE DID, THE ONE AT THE OLYMPIC STADIUM WHERE SHE, QUOTE, JUMPED OUT OF THE PLANE WITH JAMES BOND AND THEN THE ONE WITH PADDINGTON BEAR JUST IN HER JUBILEE, YOU KNOW, THE BRITISH TAKE QUITE -- QUITE A BIT OF PRIDE ON THE FACT THAT THEIR SENSE OF HUMOR IS ONE OF THEIR GREATEST EXPORTS, AND SO I THINK THAT APPROPRIATENESS AND DIGNITY, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS EVERYTHING YOU WOULD WANT A GRANDMOTHER TO BE, RIGHT?

AND SO I THINK THAT ACCOUNTS FOR HER POPULARITY, IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE ALL -- MOST OF US HERE, OF COURSE, AND MOST OF THE WORLD KNEW HER AS A MIDDLE-AGED FIGURE, BUT TO NOT PUT TOO FINE A POINT ON IT, THE QUEEN WAS A BABE WHEN SHE WAS YOUNG.

SHE WAS A FASHION ICON AND SHE HAD THOSE -- SHE HAD A CORONATION GOWN THAT HAD EVERY -- FLOWERS FROM EVERY REGION OF THE COMMONWEALTH SEWN INTO HER VEIL, LIKE IN LACE, AND SHE HAD THOSE FAMOUS FASHION DESIGNERS, YOU KNOW, WORKING FOR HER.

SO SHE'S RUN THE GAMUT OF ALL THE THINGS THAT APPEAL TO US, LUXURY, FAMILY, HERITAGE, TRADITION, HUMOR.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO FILL HER SHOES, EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 5'1".

>> YEAH, QUITE THE PETITE WOMAN.

I THINK ALSO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE SEEM TO FIND SO IMPRESSIVE ABOUT HER IS THAT THIS WAS A ROLE THAT SHE NEVER WANTED AND SHE WASN'T EVEN SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

KRISTEN, JUST THE FACT THAT SHE STEPPED IN WITH SUCH GRACE AFTER TWO TRAUMATIC INSTANCES IN HER LIFE AND THAT OF COURSE WOULD BE THE ABDICATION AND THEN THE SHOULD SHOCKING DEATH OF HER OWN FATHER, DOES THAT ADD TO HER MYSTIQUE AND THE WEIGHT OF THE GRACE THAT SHE CARRIED HERSELF WITH?

>> I THINK SO.

I MEAN, SHE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE QUEEN.

SHE WAS THE CHILD OF DESPAIR.

TO GO FROM NEVER REALLY BEING EXPECTED TO BE QUEEN TO BEING THE LONGEST REIGNING MONARCH IN BRITISH HISTORY IS SO PHENOMENAL BECAUSE IT REALLY DOES SHOW THE SENSE OF DUTY THAT SHE HAD.

HER COMMITMENT.

WHEN SHE WAS -- WHEN SHE TOOK ON THE CROWN SHE SAID SHE WOULD GIVE HER ENTIRE HEART TO THIS COUNTRY.

SHE WOULD GIVE ALL THEE COULD, AND SHE REALLY DID THAT.

SHE DID IT WHEN SHE WAS CALLED UPON AND SHE DID IT ALSO -- I MEAN, THIS IS SUCH AN UNUSUAL ROLE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

IT'S ONE OF THE FEW JOBS YOU GET IN LIFE BECAUSE A PARENT DIED AND THERE'S SOME TRAGEDY IN THAT AND FOR IT TO HAPPEN AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE, THAT IS THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS INCREDIBLY LONG REIGN IS IT HAD TO COME WITH GREAT TRAGEDY.

IF HER FATHER GOT TO LIVE AS LONG AS MAYBE HE WANTED TO -- AND WE KNOW THAT THE JOB ALSO, AS YOU SAW T KIND OF PRECIPITATED HIS DEATH.

SO TO LOSE HIM IN THIS JOB AND THEN STEP IN AND TAKE ON THE JOB YOURSELF, SO MUCH FOR A 25-YEAR-OLD TO DO.

SO MUCH.

>> OF COURSE.

AND, TRACY, SPEAKING OF THE FACT THAT THIS IS A JOB THAT YOU GET WHEN YOUR PARENT DIES, WE OF COURSE NOW HAVE THE ASCENSION OF KING CHARLES III, WHICH JUST SAYING IT FEELS WEIRD, SO I FEEL TRYING TO SAY KING CHARLES III, KING CHARLES III.

BUT FOR THE NEW KING TO STEP INTO SUCH HUGE SHOES OF HIS LATE MOTHER, HOW DO YOU SEE HIS BEING EMBRACED BY A PUBLIC THAT, AGAIN, HAD SUCH AFFECTION FOR THE LATE QUEEN?

>> SHE'S CERTAINLY A HARD ACT TO FOLLOW.

I'D SAY ALMOST AN IMPOSSIBLE ACT TO FOLLOW.

BUT SHE HAS SET CERTAIN MARKERS FOR HER SUCCESSOR, CERTAIN EXAMPLES SUCH AS HER DEDICATION TO DUTY AND HER CONSTANCY, BUT OF COURSE IT MUST BE A DAUNTING PROSPECT.

AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, OF COURSE, KING CHARLES -- AND I STRUGGLE TO -- THAT DOESN'T TRIP OFF THE TONGUE VERY EASILY YET -- HE HAD THE LONGEST TRAINING IN ROYAL HISTORY, THE LONGEST-SERVING PRINCE OF WALES, AND HE LEARNED ON THE JOB, PARTICULARLY IN RECENT YEARS WHEN THE QUEEN PASSED MORE AND MORE OF HER RESPONSIBILITY TO HIM.

SO HE HAS A WEALTH OF EXPERIENCE.

HE'S NOT COMING INTO THIS JOB COLD, AND I THINK THAT HAS TO WORK IN HIS FAVOR.

>> AND SOMETHING ELSE THAT I DO WANT TO TOUCH ON, BECAUSE, AGAIN, IN AMERICA WE ONLY SEE THE ROYALS VERY INFREQUENTLY AND MIGHT NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A WORKING ROYAL.

SO, TRACY, VERY QUICKLY, CAN YOU ALSO JUST ADD IN LIKE WHEN YOU SAY "WORK," WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

>> OKAY.

SO YOU HAVE THE THINGS LIKE THE OPENING OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S OPENING A FACTORY OR A HOSPITAL, THERE IS THE INVESTITURES, GIVING OUT HONORS, KNIGHTHOODS AND THE LIKE, BUT INCREASINGLY A HUGE AMOUNT OF CHARITABLE WORK.

THE QUEEN WAS PATRON OF MORE THAN 600 CHARITIES, AND I THINK A ROLE THAT WE WILL SEE KING CHARLES PLAY INCREASINGLY IS THAT OF ADVOCACY FOR GOOD CAUSES.

NOW, THE ENVIRONMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLOSE TO HIS HEART AND HE WAS RIGHT, ACTUALLY, PEOPLE LAUGHED AT HIM, BUT HE WAS ON THE MONEY AND I THINK WE WILL SEE HIM, YOU KNOW, ADVOCATE CAUSES LIKE THAT IN THE FUTURE.

>> SO, SILL, GIVEN THE FACT THAT CHARLES WAS VERY OPEN ABOUT HIS THOUGHTS AND CONCERNS, I SHOULD SAY, ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND A FEW OTHER ISSUES, THAT'S NOT REALLY THE ROLE OF THE MONARCH.

WHAT WAS SO INFAMOUS AND NOTED ABOUT THE QUEEN WAS THAT WE REALLY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS THINKING OR HOW SHE FELT.

SO HOW DOES SOMEONE WHO HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR AND BEEN VOCAL SHUT UP, FOR LACK OF A BETTER DESCRIPTION?

THEN HOLD IN, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE ROLE DEMANDS.

>> YES, AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE HIS BIGGEST CHALLENGE BECAUSE HE HAS HAD HIS HAND SLAPPED IN THE PAST.

THERE WAS THIS SET OF LETTERS CALLED THE BLACK SPIDER MEMOS, I DON'T KNOW -- SO IT WAS BASICALLY LETTERS HE WROTE TO PEOPLE IN POWER ABOUT HIS OPINIONS ON CERTAIN ISSUES, AND WHEN SHE IS CAME TO LIGHT THERE WAS A BIG DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW THIS WAS NOT WHAT THE MONARCH IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

IN FACT, I REMEMBER THE ONE TIME RECENTLY THAT THE QUEEN HAS SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY POLITICAL AND THERE WAS SORT OF A -- YOU KNOW, SORT OF A HUMMING AND A HAWING ABOUT IT AND THAT WAS WHEN SCOTLAND TOOK ITS REFERENDUM VOTE TO SEPARATE FROM BRITAIN, AND SHE SAID BEFORE IT HAPPENED -- BECAUSE OF COURSE WE KNOW HOW THE QUEEN FEELS ABOUT -- FELT ABOUT SCOTLAND -- I HOPE THAT THEY DON'T -- THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

THAT WAS A PRETTY STRONG STATEMENT FOR A PERSON WHO HAD DELIBERATELY FELT OUT OF THE FRAY FOR ALL THESE YEARS.

SO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR PRINCE CHARLES BECAUSE HE HAD A LITTLE MORE FREEDOM PRIOR TO BEING THE MONARCH OF SAYING THINGS, BUT APPARENTLY NOT VERY MUCH BECAUSE WHEN HE WOULD SPEAK OUT, THIS WOULD CAUSE A BIT OF A KERFUFFLE.

SO I THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO HOPEFULLY RELY ON OTHER PEOPLE TO CARRY THE BANNER OF HIS OPINIONS, HOPEFULLY HE WILL FIND SOME ALLIES WHO ARE NOT AS CONTROVERSIAL AND WHO HAVE THE LEGITIMACY, SO TO SPEAK, TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT ISSUES LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT.

>> WELL, KRISTEN, SPEAKING OF THINGS THAT A MONARCH IS SUPPOSED TO -- AND MORE IMPORTANTLY -- NOT SUPPOSED TO DO, OVER THE MANY YEARS OF CHARLES BEING PRINCE OF WALES HE'S ACCUMULATED QUITE THE LIST OF THINGS THAT AT LEAST TRADITIONALLY A MONARCH ISN'T SUPPOSED TO DO.

HOW DOES SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN DIVORCED, MARRIED HIS MISTRESS, HAD ALL KINDS OF VERY MESSY CONTROVERSIES IN THE TABLOID PRESS, HOW DOES SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD ALL OF THAT ALREADY COME OUT THEN BALANCE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WEARING THE CROWN?

>> THIS IS A BIT OF A CHALLENGE AND MAYBE MORE THAN A BIT OF A CHALLENGE.

HE IS, BECAUSE OF THESE CONTROVERSIES, NOT ESPECIALLY POPULAR.

A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL THINK OF HIM AS THE GUY WHO DID DIANA WRONG.

THAT IS A STORY LINE THAT WE SEE TODAY IN MOVIES, TV, IN BOOKS.

THAT STORY LINE HAS NEVER GONE AWAY, EVEN THOUGH DIANA HAS NOW BEEN DEAD FOR ALMOST EXACTLY 25 YEARS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE, BECAUSE OF THAT, ALSO DON'T REALLY EMBRACE CAMILLA AS QUEEN CONSORT, AND YOU KNOW WHO REALLY WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE QUEEN FOR A LOT OF US WAS DIANA.

SO HE HAS TO DEAL WITH THAT BAGGAGE AND THE LACK OF POPULARITY.

POPULARITY POLLS HAVE SHOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN, AS RECENTLY AS THIS YEAR, THAT ONLY ABOUT 40% OF PEOPLE IN THE UK ACTUALLY SEE HIM POSITIVELY.

SO THAT'S A CHALLENGE.

BUT I WILL SAY ON THE FLIP SIDE BAGGAGE, DRAMA, THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT KEEPS THE PUBLIC INTERESTED IN THE ROYAL FAMILY.

SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF DRAMA AROUND THIS FAMILY, IT'S WHAT SELLS THE MAGAZINES, IT'S WHAT KEEPS US CLICKING ON THE STORIES AND, FRANKLY, I'VE ALWAYS REFERRED TO THEM AS THE WORLD'S LONGEST RUNNING REALITY SHOW FAMILY.

IT'S BEEN A THOUSAND YEARS OF DRAMA AND SO, LIKE I SAID, A LITTLE BIT OF DRAMA, I THINK, KEEPS US INTERESTED, BUT IT ALSO CAN INTERFERE A BIT WITH OUR LIKELIHOOD TO FIND HIM RESPECTABLE, FIND HIM SUITABLE FOR THE POSITION OF KING.

>> YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF TALK ALSO, AS I UNDERSTAND IN ENGLAND, ABOUT THE MONEY, THE TAXPAYER MONEY THAT THEY COST.

DO THEY PROVIDE A BENEFIT TO THE COUNTRY THAT PERHAPS DOESN'T ALWAYS GET BALANCED OUT WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, OH, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, JUST LIVING ON THE DOLL, THEY'RE A REALLY EXPENSIVE WELFARE FAMILY.

WHAT IS THE CHECK TO THAT?

>> I HAVE THIS ARGUMENT NUMEROUS TIMES AND I WOULD ALWAYS ARGUE THEY ARE EXCELLENT VALUE FOR MONEY.

I THINK THE LAST ESTIMATE IS THEY COST THE BRITISH TAXPAYER KIND OF 50 PENCE, SO IT'S NOT THAT MUCH, PER YEAR IT'S NOT THAT MUCH, AND YET WHAT THEY BRING IN IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TOURISM AND THE BOOST TO THE ECONOMY EVERY TIME THERE IS A BIG ROYAL EVENT, SUCH AS A ROYAL WEDDING OR EVEN, YOU KNOW, MORE SADLY THE ROYAL EVENTS OF RECENT TIMES, THERE IS A HUGE UPSURGE IN TOURISM.

BUT ALL THE TIME, I THINK, IT'S A CONSTANT.

PEOPLE DON'T COME TO BRITAIN FOR THE WEATHER, THEY COME FOR THE ROYAL HERITAGE AND I THINK THAT HAS TO BE RECOGNIZED.

>> SILL, I ALSO WANT TO JUST GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT YOU SEE AS THE SHAKEUPS COMING TO THE ROYAL FAMILY ITSELF.

WE KNOW THAT PRIMOGENITURE, THE SYSTEM OF THE FIRSTBORN BEING THE HEIR HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE FOR THIS FAMILY TO NAVIGATE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS, BUT NOT ONLY THAT, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT CHARLES WANTS TO -- EXCUSE ME, KING CHARLES III HAS SAID THAT HE WANTS TO CHANGE.

>> WELL, THEY DID JUST CHANGE THE PRIMOGENITURE SYSTEM SO THAT NOW IT'S THE ORDER OF CHILDREN THAT ARE BORN AND NOT THE GENDER.

SO, YOU KNOW, PRINCESS ANNE WOULD HAVE BEEN WAY HIGHER UP IN THE -- IN THE LINE OF SUCCESSION AND TINA BROWN WHO JUST WROTE A GREAT BOOK CALLED "THE PALACE PAPERS" TALKED ABOUT HOW PRINCESS ANNE IS THE GREATEST KING BRITAIN WILL NEVER HAVE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

AS FAR AS THE CHANGES, SO THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION PRIOR TO, YOU KNOW, THIS MOST RECENT UPHEAVAL WITH THE QUEEN'S ILLNESSES AND HER DEATH OF THIS NOTION OF THE SLIMMED DOWN MONARCHY AND I THINK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY COST AND, YOU KNOW, THE VALUE FOR THE MONEY, THERE WAS -- THEY CHANGED THAT A FEW YEARS AGO SO THAT THERE WAS NO LONGER THIS PROBLEMATIC ISSUE CALLED THE CIVIL LIST WHERE THE PARLIAMENT ACTUALLY GAVE PEOPLE ALLOWANCES, NOW THE MONEY COMES FROM WHAT THE ACTUAL PROPERTIES THAT THE ROYAL FAMILY OWNS EARNS, SO THEIR FARMS, ET CETERA, THEIR REAL ESTATE.

SO THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ATTEMPT TO SORT OF DEFLECT THAT ISSUE, BUT SLIMMING DOWN THE MONARCHY COULD ALSO MEAN A WAY TO REALLY SOLVE SOME VERY IN YOUR FACE PROBLEMS WITH THE BRITISH ROYAL FAMILY, NAMELY -- NAMELY, LITERALLY, PRINCE ANDREW, OKAY?

HE HAS HAD, OF COURSE, NOT A VERY SORT OF PRISTINE RUN IN THE FAMILY.

THERE HAVE BEEN LOTS OF SCANDALS ABOUT HIM AND HE SEEMS -- HE'S NOT -- HE'S NOT -- IF YOU WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS FROM A BRANDING PERSPECTIVE, HE IS NOT EXACTLY BOLSTERING THE BRAND, IN FACT, HE'S TARNISHING THE BRAND A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE JEFFREY EPSTEIN ISSUE.

SO WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF WHAT TO DO WITH PRINCE ANDREW AND WHETHER WE WILL, YOU KNOW, ELIMINATE HIM SORT OF FROM THE WHOLE FOLD AS FAR AS BEING A WORKING ROYAL.

WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF THE SUSSEXES AND HOW THEY WILL REMAIN OR NOT REMAIN CONNECTED.

IT'S INTERESTINGLY, I FEEL, THAT IF WE -- IF PRINCE ANDREW GOES WE MIGHT LOSE TWO FAIRLY VALUABLE MEMBERS, I WOULD SAY PRINCESS BEATRICE AND PRINCESS EUGEIE ARE STALWART AND HAVE PRODUCED GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN FOR THE QUEEN, ET CETERA, SO THAT MIGHT BE WEIGHED, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR THE ROYAL FAMILY AS TO HOW TO SLIM DOWN.

WHAT IS IT ACTUALLY GOING TO MEAN?

>> KRISTEN, OF THE MANY, MANY ISSUES THAT THE ROYAL FAMILY WILL BE FACING GOING FORWARD, ONE OF THEM IS PERHAPS READDRESSING THEIR COLONIAL PAST, THE COMMONWEALTH IS VERY LARGE, IT SPANS MANY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AROUND THE GLOBE AND TO BE PERFECTLY FRANK NOT EVERYONE HAD THE SAME MOURNFUL REACTION TO THE PASSING OF THE QUEEN, AND WE CAN START AS CLOSE AS IN NEARBY SCOTLAND AND IRELAND AND THEN JUST BRANCH OUT AROUND THE PLANET.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT GETTING READDRESSED OR DOES IT GET READDRESSED AT ALL?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE ROYAL FAMILY KNOWS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND I LIKE TO THINK IT BEGAN WITH HARRY AND MEGHAN TALKING FRANKLY WITH OPRAH ABOUT RACISM AND ABOUT STRUCTURAL INEQUALITIES, ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACY AND I FEEL LIKE THEY KNOCKED DOWN THE DOOR SO THAT OTHER ROYALS COULD START DOING THE SAME THING.

FOR EXAMPLE, WILLIAM AFTER HIS DISASTROUS TOUR OF THE CARIBBEAN THIS YEAR AFTERWARD HE ACKNOWLEDGED, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A LOT TO LEARN.

THAT WAS WHAT HAD TO BE DONE, WE HAD TO LEARN, AND THE FOLKS THAT WE WERE VISITING, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DETERMINE THEIR OWN FUTURE.

SO I DO THINK THAT THE ROYAL FAMILY IS STARTING TO TIP TOE INTO THIS.

CHARLES HAS SUPPOSEDLY EXPRESSED HIS CONCERN ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF REFUGEES.

THAT IS ALSO LINKED VERY CLOSELY TO WHAT COLONIALISM IS, WHERE DO REFUGEES COME FROM AND SO ON.

SO I DO THINK THAT THE ROYAL FAMILY KNOWS THAT RECKONING NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND WHAT KIND OF RECKONING THEY DECIDE TO DO, I'M NOT SURE, BECAUSE THERE IS ALSO THE QUESTION OF IF WE FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE ALL OF THESE ILLS, THESE TRANSGRESSIONS, WILL THERE ALSO HAVE TO BE REPARATIONS PAID?

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT WAY BACK WHEN THE ROYAL FAMILY WAS ALSO INSTRUMENTAL IN THE TRANSATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE.

IT WAS NOT JUST COLONIALISM, IT WAS ALSO A LOT OF OTHER UGLY THINGS THAT THIS FAMILY HAS BEEN INVOLVED WITH.

>> WELL, THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT, I THINK, CHALLENGES THAT THE NEW KING CHARLES III AND OF COURSE QUEEN CONSORT CAMILLA WILL FACE AND WE WILL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING HOW THEY ADDRESS THEM, BUT I'D LIKE TO THANK MY GUESTS FOR JOINING ME ON THIS SPECIAL EPISODE OF "METROFOCUS," TRACY BOREMAN A ROYAL HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR OF "CROWN AND CENTER: A NEW HISTORY OF THE BRITISH MONARCHY FROM WILLIAM THE CONQUERER TO ELIZABETH II."

ALSO KRISTEN MINEZER CO-HOST OF NEWS WEEK'S THE ROYAL REPORT NEWSCAST AND PROCESSOR ONTESS THE AUTHOR OF "ROYAL FEVER: THE BRITISH MONARCHY IN CONSUMER CULTURE."

SHE'S ALSO A PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THE GEEZ COLLEGE OF BUSINESS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY -- ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪