COMING UP NEXT, ALSO TONIGHT, A NEW PROGRAM LOOKS TO ADDRESS THE TRADEOFFS OF PROJECTED GROWTH IN ARIZONA AND A FORMER CORRECTION OFFICER BORKS TO REHAB IM MATES THROUGH A BOOK CLUB.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

A DELEGATION OF ARIZONA LEADERS LED BY GOVERNOR KATIE HOBBS RECENTLY TRAVELED TO MEXICO TO MEET WITH OFFICIALS AND BUSINESS LEADERS FROM THE STATE'S TOP TRADING PARTNER.

THE TRIP TO MEXICO CITY CAME AMID INTERNATIONAL TENSIONS OVER U.S.

TARIFF POLICIES AND A MONTH "BEFORE" KEY MEETINGS REGARDING AN EXTENTION TO THE U.S- MEXICO-CANADA FREE TRADE.

TODD SANDERS IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

TED: ALREADY.

SO THIS WAS BASICALLY -- IT IS A TRADE DELEGATION.

IT IS A TRADE DELEGATION TO MEXICO.

BUT MEXICO CITY THIS TIME.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THAT?

>> INTERESTING.

I THINK THIS IS THE GOVERNOR'S SIXTH TRIP.

NOT JUST MEXICO CITY.

SHE HAS BEEN INTENTIONAL ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP.

A LOT OF WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORING STATES AND GOVERNOR, BUT CERTAINLY, THERE IS A LOT, THERE IS A LOT OF IMPORTANCE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THE BORDER FOR US, TRADE, IT MADE SENSE TO DO THAT DELEGATION DOWN TO MEXICO CITY.

TED: THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIP TO SMOOTH OUT RELATIONS TO MAKE SURE.

KEEP THINGS EVEN KEELED.

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE GOT A LONG RELATIONSHIP WITH MEXICO.

THE ARIZONA MEXICO COMMISSION CELEBRATED 66 YEARS, SO CONTINUING THAT, THAT RELATIONSHIP, THAT DISCUSSION IS ONE THING TO SAY WE ARE FRIENDS.

ITS ANOTHER THING TO SHOW UP.

THE OTHER PART WAS TO OPEN UP SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR ARIZONA BUSINESSES IN MEXICO.

BUT ALSO TO TALK TO MEXICAN BUSINESS ABOUT OPPORTUNITIES IN ARIZONA.

REALLY A THREE-PRONGED TYPE OF REASON FOR THE TRIP.

TED: WHICH SECTORS WERE FOCUSED ON IN BOTH DIRECTIONS?

>> WE HAD FOLKS FROM ALL SECTORS.

OBVIOUSLY BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS BUT THE UNITS.

WE HAD A LOT OF MANUFACTURERRING THAT WAS REPRESENTED.

AND FOR INSTANCE, THE PHOENIX SUNS WERE THERE.

A NICE BROAD DELEGATION.

TED: YEAH.

>> SUNS PLAYED DOWN THERE BEFORE.

TED: THE SEMICONDUCTOR INDUSTRY, I WOULD I IMAGINE WOULD HAVE BEEN TOP OF MINE FOR A LOT OF FOLKS.

TOP OF MIND FOR THEM.

TOP OF MIND FOR YOUR UP FROM.

A YEAH.

HE IS INTERESTING.

I HAD, I HAVE DONE A NUMBER OF THESE ARE.

AND I WILL SAY, THE FACT THAT WE ARE ALL THE SUDDEN THIS CENTER OF GRAVITY IN THE COUNTRY, YOU COULD SAY IN THE WORLD NOW, HAS CHANGED THE WAY THAT WE ARE PERCEIVED IN MEXICO CITY, BEFORE, I THINK, YOU WOULD SEE, THEY WERE GLAD WE ARE THERE.

ALL ROADS LEAD TO TEXAS.

NOW, ALL OF THE SUDDEN, ARIZONA IS FRONT AND CENTER, THANKS TO THIS BOOM AND SEMICONDUCTORS.

WE HAD FIVE STATES THAT CAME TO US.

THE SECRETARY OF THE ECONOMY TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE MAY PARTNER WITH THEM ON ADVANCED MANUFACTURING, SO REALLY INTERESTING CHANGE IN THE DYNAMICS FOR ARIZONA.

TED: HAVE YOU SEEN THAT KIND OF INTEREST FROM STATES OTHER THAN SENORA IN PREVIOUS VISITS, IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS THE ONE YOU FOCUS ON.

YOU ARE TELLING ME, THE IN TIRE COUNTRY, THEY WERE THERE.

>> AGREED.

FASCINATING.

OUR NEIGHBOR FOR THE SOUTH REALLY IMPORTANT.

GOING TO REMAIN IMPORTANT.

YEAH.

INTERESTING TO SEE ALL THE OTHER STATES TAKING AN INTEREST IN ARIZONA AND LOOKING FOR WAYS TO PARTNER WITH OUR STATE.

THAT BODES WELL.

I THINK IT STARTS TO INTENTION AL THINK ECONOMIC TRAGEDY THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON.

>> WHAT ABOUT BORDER SECURITY.

WAS IT MENTIONED.

WAS IT TOUCH ON.

>> I KNOW THE GOVERNOR HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE ADMINISTRATOR.

I AM SURE THAT WAS TOUCHED ON.

FOR US, IT WAS THE ABOUT THE TRADE RELATIONSHIPS THEN OPPORTUNITIES FOR ARIZONA COMPANIES.

TED: THINGS, OBVIOUSLY, I MEAN, WATER CONSERVATION, THESE SORTS OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE ISSUE IN THE LONG RAIN.

BUT STILL IN AWE, THOSE THINGS BROUGHT UP, CONCERNS.

>> WATER WITH IS ALWAYS AN ISSUE.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE FRIENDS, THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT LIKE WE ARE.

I THIS I WE GOT A REPUTATION AS STATE TO UNDERSTAND THAT UNDERSTANDS WATER KNOWS HOW TO MANAGE THAT.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT IS SOMETHING THEY ARE NOW HAVING TO PAY ATTENTION TO.

THEY ARE SORT OF LEARNING FROM US.

THE ENERGY TOPIC, ALSO, CAME UP.

WE ARE LOOKING AT ENERGY NOW.

THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT ENERGY AS WELL GIVEN ALL THE NEW DEMANDS WITH AI, WHAT THAT REQUIRES FROM ENERGY PERSPECTIVE.

SO THAT IS ALSO ENTERED INTO THE DIE AM AFFECTS SO INTERESTING.

TED: THE MOOD OF THE MEETINGS ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO PREVIOUS YEARS, PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS IF YOU WILL.

WHAT WAS IT?

BECAUSE I KNOW HOW IT LOOKS FROM UP HERE.

IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS CHAOS.

WHAT DID YOU FEEL DOWN THERE WHEN TALKING TO THESE FOLKS?

>> FOR ONE THING, LOOK I SAID.

WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH WORK WITH MEXICO, WITH SENORA, I THINK WE ARE SEEING FRIENDS COMING IN, HAVING A CONVERSATION, I WILL SAY, AS FAR AS TRADE IS CONCERNED.

TARIFFS, ALL OF THAT.

CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM.

YOU KNOW INTHEY FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, AS OF RIGHT NOW, THEY MANAGED SORT OF THE TRADE WARS, THE GLOBAL TRADE PARADIGM PRETTY WELL.

THEY GOT CONFIDENCE IN PARTNERS LIKE ARIZONA, SO OVERALL, I THINK, IT WAS CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM.

TED: OK.

TARIFFS WERE DISCUSSED.

TARIFFS WERE AN SHALL ISSUE?

>> WELL, THE THING IS, THE THING ABOUT TARIFFS, MOST OF THOSE THINGS ARE NOT COVERED.

I THINK WHAT THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT IS THE REVIEW THAT IS HAPPENING IN PROCESS NOW.

IT WILL BE HAPPENING NEXT YEAR.

SO WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE INHOW DOES THAT LOOK LIKE IF A THREE COUNTRY PERSPECTIVE.

TED: WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS IS HAPPENING NEXT YEAR.

MY GOODNESS, GRACIOUS, THINGS ARE FLYING AROUND THE LAST TIME THIS AGREEMENT HAPPENED.

IT IS EVEN MORE SO NOW.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING?

>> CHANGING BY THE HOUR WE KNOW.

GLOBALLY.

WHAT I AM UNDERSTANDING AT THIS POINT, THERE IS A COMMENT PERIOD, I KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN INTENTIONAL ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE IMPACT OF THE ARIZONA COMPANIES THEN MAKING SURE WE ARE GOING TO PROVIDE A PACKAGE FOR THE FEDS TO LOOK AT TO UNDERSTANDS HOW IT IS IMPACTING ARIZONA.

WHAT THE BENEFITS ARE FOR ARIZONA FROM ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE.

LIGHT COULD HAPPEN IF THEY DECIDE TO MAKE MINOR ADJUST PRESIDENTANCE MOVE FORWARD.

IF THEY DON'T, IF THEY ARE BIGGER AMOUNTS, THEY CANNOT AGREE, THEN IT RESETS, THERE IS A TEN-YEAR PERIOD, THEY HAVE TO TRY TO WORK IT UT.

WE ARE HOPEFUL THAT WE CANNOT GET INTO THIS TEN-YEAR TIMEFRAME AND RESET AGAIN.

MAKE IMPROVEMENTS YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE IM PROOF PROVEMENTS, I THINK WE SAW GOOD IMPROVEMENTS SO WE ARE HOPEFUL THAT.

>> COULD HAPPEN.

REKHA CAN SEE IT NOW.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DECIDES TO RESKINNED TRADE AGREEMENTS?

I MEAN THE SIDES SAY REDUCEP PLANE FLIGHTS OUT OF MEXICO.

UP TO ARIZONA THE U.S.

I MEAN IT CAN HAPPEN ON A DAILY PASS SIS.

WHERE IS THE CONFIDENCE THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS GOING TO STICK.

>> I THINK THAT IS PART OF WHAT BOTH SIDES HEARD.

YOU KNOW, FOR THE ECONOMICS TO WORK.

YOU NEED HAVE CERTAINTY.

YOU NEED TO HAVE STABILITY FROM BOTH SIDES.

I THIS I, THAT IS, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS BEING BROADCAST I THINK TWO BOTH GOVERNMENTS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS WORK, NUMBER ONE TRADE PARTNER FOR ARIZONA BUT THE COUNTRY IS MEXICO.

SO LET'S MAKE SURE WE GOT STABILITY AND PREDICTSICT.

TED: CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL LEAVE IT WITH THAT.

TODD, ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

YOU AS WELL.

THANK YOU.

>> ARIZONA PBS AND THE MUSEUM ARE HOSTING A SNEAK PEAK EVEN FOR THE HIGHLY ANTICIPATED AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

JOIN US AT THE MUSEUM FOR AMERICA AT 250 INDIGENOUS VOICES ON THE EVENING OF WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 12th.

SEE SELECTIONS FROM THE FILM AS WELL AS ORIGINAL ARIZONA DIGITAL SERRIES WHAT HAPPENED IN AZ.

SCAN THE QR CODE ON THE SCREEN TO REGISTER OR GO TO AZPBS.

ORG/AMERICA 250 AND LEARN MORE.

A NEW INIT FIFE LIKE WATER, POWER, AND LAND AVAILABLEMENT OVER THE NEXT 15 TO 20 YEARS.

TO LEARN MORE WE WELCOME MARK STAFP, DIRECTOR OF ASU'S MASTERS IN REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT AND ECONOMIST JIM ROUNDS.

FOOD TO HE SUE.

MARK, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

THIS INITIATIVE.

WHAT IS THIS?

IT IS BASICALLY, WE ARE GOING TO GROW.

WE BETTER FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.

>> YEAH.

THINK TO SOME DEGREE THAT IS WHAT IT IS, TED.

WE REALIZE, THE FACT THAT WE ARE HAVING SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SEMICONDUCTOR INDUSTRY ARE GREAT, RIGHT INWE ARE PROJECTED TO GROWS BY ONE MILLION PEOPLE IN THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

WE ARE FACING A NUMBER OF CONSTRAINTS TO THE GROWTH WE NEVER HAD TO FACE BEFORE.

AND THEY ARE CAUTION US -- I THINK, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BEGIN MAKING SOME TRADEOFF CHOICES ABOUT NOT, NOT IF WE ARE GOING TO GROW, BUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO GROW.

WHAT THAT MAY LOOK LIKE.

>> JIM, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE?

A YEAH.

SO WHEN MARK CALLED ABOUT AN EVENT HE IS GOING TO HAVE.

HE IS TALKING ABOUT, LET'S LOOK AT THESE THINGS.

I WAS EXCITED BECAUSE WE ALREADY STARTED LOOKING AT A COUPLE OF SPECIFIC ONES SO WE HAVE BEEN V BEEN DOING A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH FOR THE BOARD OF REGENTS RELATED TO THE FACT THAT THE LONG-TERM FORECAST FOR JOB GROWTH IN THE STATE IS NOT GOING TO BE MET WITH THE CURRENT PRODUCTION OF TRAINED WORKERS PLUS WHAT WE BRING IN.

SO WE NEED TO STEP IT UP AND DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT OPPORTUNISTIC FORECAST AND REALITY IS GOING TO EQUATE TO TENS OF BILLIONS IN TAX REVENUES OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.

THAT IS ONE OF THEM.

ENERGY IS A MAJOR ISSUE UNLESS WE ARE NOT GOING TO HIT UNLESS WE STEP UP.

THE FACT MARK WANTED TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT THINGS THEN BRING ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO MANAGE GROWTH LONGER TERM INSTEAD OF SHORT TERM.

IT WAS INTRIGUING I WAS INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATE K. VO WE TALK ABOUT POWER.

I MEAN, WE HAD PEOPLE ON THE PROGRAM TALK ABOUT NUCLEAR ENERGY NEEDS TO LOOK AT AGAIN AND MAYBE EVEN SMALLER.

MORE LOCALIZED REACTORS SOMETHING NO ONE THOUGHT.

IS THIS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

THOSE THINGS THAT MAY BE NEEDED IN THE TURE.

THAT IS PART OF IT, TED.

I WILL PUT THIS INTO CONTEXT, RIGHT.

A MILLION PEOPLE.

THE CITY OF TUCSON IS ONE MILLION PEOPLE.

TULSA, EBB OKLAHOMA, ONE MILLION PEOPLE.

WHAT WE ARE SAYING IN THIS HE TEXT NEXT TEN YEARS WE NOT TO TAKE THE ENTIRE CITY OF TUCSON AND PUT IT HERE.

WE HAVE HAD A GROWTH PATTERN THAT HAS BEEN FREE TO EXPAND RELATIVELY EASILY WITHOUT A LOT OF CONSTRAINTS.

WE ARE BUMPING UP AGAINST THOSE.

WE TALK ABOUT WATER A LOT.

POWER IS ONE OF THEM.

THE VALUABLE LAND THAT IS DEVELOPABLE IT IS ONE OF THEM.

IT IS BEGINNING TO PUSH US INWARD.

BUZZ WE DON'T HAVE DEVELOPMENT POLICIES AND WE DON'T HAVE A DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, THAT IS USED AS TO THAT KIND OF CONSTRAINED DEVELOPMENT, OF COURSE, HOW ARE WE GOING TO HANDLE THIS?

TED: HOW ARE WE GOING TO HANDLE THIS?

I THINK WE GO THROUGH EACH OF THE ITEMS AND WE FIND A SOLUTION, SO AVAILABLE LAND.

TED: YES.

>> OURSELVES AND SOME OTHERS ARE LOOKING AT OVERHAULED STATE LAND DEPARTMENT SO THEY COULD BE PROPERLY FUNDED AND RESPOND MORE QUICKLY TO MARKET DEMAND RELATED TO EN ENERGY, THERE IS SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION.

WE ARE GOING TO REINVEST.

THE GREAT THING IS.

WE TALKED ABOUT POSITIVE ROI BEFORE ON THE SHOW.

MOST OF THESE THINGS CAN BE DONE WITHOUT A MASSIVE COST INCREASE TO TAXPAYERS.

IN FACT IN MANY CASE, THE STATE TAXPAYERS MAKE MONEY FROM THE INVESTMENT THEY DON'T LOSE MONEY.

IF WE DO AT THIS TIME RIGHT.

WE THINK LONG ENOUGH AHEAD OF TIME, THEN IT WILL BE DONE BECAUSE IF YOU GET BEHIND ON THESE THINGS IT COST TOO MUCH.

TED: I THINK LAND AVAILABILITY RAISES EYEBROWS, TOO.

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE PUSH OUTWARD AND DON'T SEE THE DESERT SPOILED AND THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

SOME LAND WOULD BE SO DIFFICULT TO GET WATER AND POWER TO.

THAT IT WOULD NOT RETURN MUCH ON THAT PARTICULAR INVESTMENT.

HOW DO YOU?

IS THERE ENOUGH AVAILABLE LAND FOR TULL SAL TO MOVE TO ARIZONAZ IN.

>> YOU KNOW, IF YOU TAKE THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT WE HISTORICALLY HAD WHICH WAS RELATIVELY LOW DENSITY.

I MEAN, 70% OF THE LAND IS DESIGNATE FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT DETACHMENT.

I DON'T THINK CAN AAM COCOME DATE THE GROWTH THAT IS PROJECTED BY MAINTAINING THAT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

YOU KNOW?

BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE LAND DOESN'T HAVE THE WATER.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FEESLY GET POUR WE'RE TO IT.

IT BECOMES DISCONNECTED FROM THE WORKFORCE.

THE WORKFORCE IS CHANGING.

RIGHT?

WHAT THAT WORKFORCE NEEDS AND WANTS IN ORDER TO BE A PRODUCTIVE WORKFORCE IS CHANGING AND IT IS NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME LOCATION OR TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY WANT.

THERE IS A NUMBER OF THESE FACTORS.

>> TALK ABOUT THE WORKFORCE.

I KNOW IT IS A BIG DEAL WITH YOU AS FAR AS VEIL WORKFORCE.

PEOPLE THAT ARE READY AN TRAINED, READY TO GO, AS FAR AS HIGH-TECH INDUSTRY.

THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO?

ARE WE ON THE RIGHT TRAJECTORY HERE?

DO WE NEED TO REALLY KIND OF PULL UP THE BOOTSTRAPS TO GET THIS DONE?

A WELL, RELATED TO THE PROJECTS LIKE TC, THEY ARE MASSIVE.

COMMUNITY COLLEGES, UNITS, EVERYBODY STEPPED UP, STARTED WORKING TOWARD THAT.

BUT, BUT THE STATE IS MUCH BIGGER THAN A SINGLE BUSINESS.

EVEN ONE AS BIG.

WE HAVE DEMANDS ACROSS THE BOARD.

IT IS NOT JUST WE NEED MORE BACHELOR'S DEGREES.

WE NEED MORE TECHNICAL DEGREES IN.

THAT THIS IS DEBATE THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE.

WE NEED THE HIGH SCHOOL PERSON TO GRADUATE THAT WOULDN'T.

WE NEED A HOO HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE.

WE NEED EVERYBODY TO DO BETTER.

WE NEED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY OPPORTUNITY WE CAN TO HAVE THE QUALITY WORKFORCE TO MAINTAIN THE CURRENT MOMENTUM.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE HOW MUCH THE ECONOMIC MOMENTUM HAS SHIFTED SINCE THE COVID.

TED: YOU NEED SPECIALIZED SCHOOLS FOR SPECIALIZED TALENTS AND SPECIALIZED SKILLS.

RIGHT.

WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO SEE A LITTLE BIT OF REFORM AT THE UNIVERSITIES.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE A CHANGE IN THE WAY THE DIFFERENT WORKFORCE GROUPS WORK TOGETHER.

I CAN NAME TEN DIFFERENT WORKFORCE GROUPS THAT MAY BE WORKING ON THE EX AC SAME THING.

WE HAVE TO COLLABORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE.

TED: YEAH.

>> THE GOOD THING IS THE STUFF IS INTERRATED WHICH MAKES IT SEEM MORE COMPLICATED.

IT MEANS THERE THERE IS A STORY TO BE TOLD.

THERE IS A SOLUTION.

WE HAVE TO GET POLICYMAKERS AND THE OTHER PARTICIPANTS TO WANT TO DOORED NATE.

TED: HOW MUCH, THOUGH, MARK DOES THAT STORY CHANGE WITH WATER?

BECAUSE IF, IF THE DROUGHT CONTINUES IN SIMILAR PATTERNS, THIS THE NEXT COME BACK, COLORADO RIVER COME COME BACK GOES COMPLETELY SIDEWAYS, DOES THAT CHANGE THE NARRATIVE?

>> WELL, LISTEN, THE NARRATIVE TODAY.

RIGHT?

IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT.

THE QUESTION IS, WE ARE NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION IS YET?

IT IS A KNOWN NONE.

IT HAS A VARIETY OF POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

THE THING THAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT NOT ALL OF THE LAND THAT WE LOOK AT AND THINK COULD BE DEVELOPED WILL BE DEVELOPABLE.

AND, AND IN THAT CHANGES PATTERNS RIGHT.

IT CHANGES PATTERNS IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS, WE GOT TO GET ALL OF THIS IN A REGIONAL CONTEXT TO WORK TOGETHER.

SO WE ARE MATCHING.

WHERE PEOPLE LIVE.

WHERE THEY WORK.

EMPLOYMENT.

EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES.

QUALITY OF LIFE.

PART OF THIS AFFECTS SUBSTANTIALLY OBTAINABILITY AND AFFORDABILITY OF HOUSING.

THE MORE YOU CONSTRAINT AND THE LESS WE HAVE THAT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN WE ARE SO USED TO.

THE HARDER IT IS TO HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THAT AFFECTS THE EMPLOYMENT SECTOR.

TED: RIGHT.

LAST QUESTION HERE.

RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

BUT I WANT TO GET THE LAST QUESTION IN BECAUSE YOU REFERRED TO IT.

IT IS THERE A POLITICAL WILL TO EVEN LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THIS INITIATIVE?

>> THERE WILL BE WHEN THE POLITICIANS SEE THE EXTENT THAT WE COULD LOSE ECONOMIC GROWTH IF WE DON'T TAKE ACTION.

VERSUS THE GAME THAT WE'LL HAVE WITH BEING PROACTIVE.

THINK SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO SHOW PEOPLE THE NUMBERS, THE EXTRA JOBS, THE EXTRA TAX REVENUES.

WE HAVE TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE MATH AND EXPLAIN THINGS IN MORE DETAIL.

YEAH.

THAT IS WHAT IT IS ABOUT.

CREATING A CONTEXT FOR THIS DIALOGUE.

TED: ALRIGHT.

MARK, JIM, A COUPLE OF ECONOMISTS HERE TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF AVERS ARZ.

IS COMING.

S GOING FAST.

GOD HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> A FORMER ARIZONA CORRECTIONS OFFICER IS LOOKING TO USE THE POWER OF BOOKS TO SPARK CHANGE INSIDE STATE AND FEDERAL PRISONS IN.

THE GOAL IS TO USE BOOK CLUBS TO HELP GUIDE INMATES INTO MAKING BETTER CHOICES AND LEADING MORE PRODUCTIVE LIVES.

JOINING US NOW IS FOUNDER OF THE EMBOSSED BOOK CLUB.

THE EMBOSSED BOOK CLUB.

FIRST OF ALL, WHY THAT NAME?

>> EMBOSSED.

WHEN YOU EM BOSS SOMETHING.

YOU PUT A STAMP ON IT.

IT STANDS OUT.

IT IS A RAISED STATUS.

THAT IS HOW I WANTED THE INMATES TO LOOK AT IT.

TED: TALK TO US ABOUT HOW YOU GOT IN STARTED WITH THE IDEA OF INMATES BEE RONGING TO THE BOOK CLUB?

JUST ASSIGNED READING?

HOW DID IT GO?

TED: >> I WAS LITERATURE MAJOR.

I HAVE BEEN A BOOK LOVER.

BOOKS HAVE REALLY IMPACTED MY LIFE, SPECIFIC AUTHORS.

I THOUGHT ONE DAY, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THESE MEN AND WOMEN IF THEY WERE EXPOSED TO THE SAME BOOKS THAT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE EXPOSED TO?

TED: AND YOU STARTED WITH VICTOR'S BOOK?

YOU STARTED WITH THAT POOK?

>> YES.

TED: GOODNESS GRACIOUS.

MAN, SEARCH FOR AMERICANING.

THAT IS HEAVY STUFF FOR BEHIND BARS.

>> IT WAS BIG DECISION, TOO.

LIKE WHAT IS THE FIRST BOOK GOING TO BE?

SO IT HAD TO BE SOMETHING IMPACTFUL.

IT HAD TO BE SOMETHING RELEVANT.

IT HAD TO -- IT HAD TO BE THE ONE.

I CHOSE THIS BOOK BECAUSE VICTOR FRANKEL, AS YOU MAY KNOW, SURVIVED FOUR DIFFERENT CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

SO IT IS REALLY A STORY ABOUT RESILIENCE.

AND FINDING YOUR PURPOSE AND WHEN YOU FIND THAT PURPOSE, IT PULLS YOU THROUGH.

ADVERSITY.

TED: WHAT KIND OF REACTION DID YOU GET FROM THE BOOK CLUB MEMBERS?

>> IT WAS PHENOMENAL.

TED: INTERESTING.

>> IT WAS PHENOMENAL.

THE MEN WERE APPROACHING ME ON THE YARD.

ANXIOUS TO TALK ABOUT IT.

TED: WHAT DID THEY SAY ABOUT IT?

>> THEY -- IT REALLY RESONATED WITH THEM, THE WHOLE, THE WHOLE COMPARISON BETWEEN BEING INCARCERATED AND BEING IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP AND IT WAS REALLY -- IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO HEAR THEM TALK ABOUT HOW THOSE PEOPLE IN THE CONCENTRATION CAMP WHERE WERE THERE SUFFERING BUT NOT BY THEIR OWN DOING.

WHERE MY MEN WERE ADMITTING WE ARE HERE BECAUSE WHAT WE DID.

TED: ISN'T THAT INTERESTING.

>> YEAH.

TED: WHEN YOU STARTED THIS BOOK CLUB INDID YOU GET PUSHBACK FROM OFFICIALS , PEERS, DID PEOPLE SAY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS LUKEWARM.

IT WAS LUKEWARM AT FIRST.

BUT THANK GOD FOR MY DEPUTY WARDEN, DEPUTY WARDEN, HE TOLD ME, HE SAID, ANYTHING THAT IS GOING TO MAKE THIS YARD BETTER, DO IT.

YOU MADE THE YARD BETTER BUT NOT ONLY THAT YOU GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF FOL BEES IN TESTED IN BOOKS.

THE BOOK CLUB EXPLODED.

WE GREW FROM ONE TO THREE.

THE DEMAND, I COULD NOT KEEP UP WITH IT.

TED: THREE GROUPS OF HOW MANY?

HOW MANY?

>> ON AVERAGE ABOUT SEVEN.

TED: MET SEVERAL TIME AS WEEK.

>> ONE TIME A WEEK.

TED: ONE TIME A WEEK.

HOW DID YOU FIGURE OUT WHICH BOOKS WOULD WORK?

OBVIOUSLY VICTOR FRANKEL HAS MEANING.

YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR MEANING YOU FOUND IT.

WHAT OTHER BOOKS DID YOU CHOOSE AND WHY?

>> OH, YOU KNOW?

WE CHOSE 12 BOOKS.

I CHOSE 12 BOOKS BECAUSE IT WAS 12-MONTH PROGRAM.

THAT WAS OBJECTIVE TO READ ONE BOOK A MONTH FOR 12 MONTHS SO I WANTED TO HIT ON PAY JOR TOPICS LIKE PURPOSE.

LIKE YOU KNOW, EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE.

JUST DOWN HE THE THE LINE.

REKHA NOTICED THE OPTIMIST IN HERE.

>> YES.

TED: WHY DID YOU PICK THAT ONE?

>> THAT HAS SPIRITUAL TWIST TO IT.

AND THIS BOOK IS ABSOLUTELY MAGICAL.

I HAVE TO SAY, THIS IS THE FAVORITE.

TED: FAVORITE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE BOOK CLUB MEMBERS.

DID THEY COME TO YOU.

YOU KNOW, THINK WE SHOULD DO XYOZ.

>> YES.

YES.

THAT WHY THE 12th BOOK IS INMATE'S CHOICE.

>> IT IS.

>> VERY COOL.

SO THIS WENT SO WELL.

THAT YOU ROUND UP, WHAT?

RESIGNING THE JOB, STARTING THE BOOK CLUB OUTSIDE OF THIS BARS?

>> I DID.

I MET WITH DIRECTOR.

I TOLD HIM, I SAID, I BELIEVE THIS SHOULD BE A PROGRAM.

THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

AND THEY WERE NOT SURE HOW TO GET THE BOOKS.

SO I SAID, I WILL START A NONPROFIT.

I WILL GET THE BOOKS.

WELL, YOU CAN'T.

YOU CAN'T RUN A NONPROFIT FOR THE STATE AND WORK FOR THE STATE AT THE SAME TIME.

I SAID, I WILL QUIT MY JOB.

TED: HOW LONG AGO WAS THIS?

>> FOUR FONT AGO.

>> HOW IS IT GOING?

IT IS SLOWLY PICKING UP STEAM.

TED: ALL RIGHT.

SO AGAIN, ITS THE EMBOSSED BOOK CLUB.

THE IDEA IS TO GET THIS INTO STATE AND FEDERAL PRISONS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> YES.

TED: IT IS PICKING UP A LITTLE BIT OF STEAM.

>> IT IS.

IT IS.

WORDS GETTING OUT.

PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING.

PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.

DONATIONS ARE COMING IN.

TED: WELL CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS REALLY.

NOT ONLY A GREAT THING BUT TO GET THE BYIN ARE THE INMATES FROM THE BOOK CLUB MEMBERS TO GET THAT BUY-IN IS HUGE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE IT IS WORK FOR YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING AND SHARING YOUR STORY.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: YOU BET.

TED: AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I AM TED SIMONS THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪