>> WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU BRING NEW CY EPPS TOGETHER WITH PSYCHOLOGY AND THEOLOGY IN ITALY?

STAY WITH US AND GET READY TO OPEN YOUR MIND AND THINK ABOUT LIFE IN NEW WADES WITH MY GUEST, DR.

MICHAEL CONFORTI, NEXT O"PROFILE."

MICHAEL CONFORTI WAS BROUGHT UP IN BROOKLYN, NEW YORK.

HE SEARCHED A BACHELOR AND MASTER'S DEGREE AT GODDARD AND WEPT ON TO BECOME A JUNGIAN ANALYST.

HE'S A FACULTY MEMBER AT ANTIOCH NEW ENGLAND AND NEW YORK AND BOSTON.

HE'S BEEN IN PRIVATE PRACTICE FOR OVER 25 YEARS.

HE LECTURES INTERNATIONALLY AND HAS AUTHORED NUMEROUS ARTICLES AND RECENTLY A BOOK.

A NOVEL THINKER, HE WAS GIVEN A VISION AWARD FROM THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF PSYCHOANALYSIS.

HE LIVES IN BRATTLEBORO.

THANK YOU FOR COMING UP.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> GREAT.

WHEN DID YOU KNOW YOU WANTED TO BE AN ANALYST?

>> WELL, I DID VOLUNTEER WORK AT WILLOW BROOK STATE HOSPITAL IN NEW YORK WHEN I WAS ABOUT 18 YEARS OLD.

THESE KIDS WERE SO DISTURBED.

THEY WERE IN A BACKWARD FIVE, SIX, SEVEN YEARS.

I WOULD WATCH THEM, TWO IN PARTICULAR.

ONE WOULD GO OUT EVERY DAY AND MAKE A WREATH OF FLOWERS, A CROWN, AND PUT IT ON HIS HEAD.

SOMETHING ABOUT HIM CHANGED.

I THOUGHT, I WASN'T THINKING JUNGIAN PSYCHOLOGY BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THAT ACTIVITY THAT GIVES THIS KID SOME KIND OF PEACE.

IF I COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS THAT HAPPENS THROUGH THE SYMBOLIC ATTACHMENT TO THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY IT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL CONTRIBUTION TO MAKE.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE EARLY STAGES FOR ME.

>> YOU GO TO ZURICH AND KNOCK ON THE DOOR OF THE INSTITUTE.

WHAT LED YOU TO THAT?

THAT WAS A BOLD MOVE.

>> WELL, IN MY SECOND YEAR OF COLLEGE, WENT TO CITY UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK, I WAS TAKING A COURSE IN PERSONALITY THEORY.

THE TEACHER MENTIONED TWO WORDS.

ALCHEMY AND AN I MA.

I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE WORDS MEANT BUT I SAID THIS IS GOING TO BE PART OF MY FUTURE AND I WANT TO PURSUE IT.

I GOT OUT OF COLLEGE AND WE WERE ABLE TO GO AWAY THREE, FOUR MONTHS AT A TIME.

WHERE YOU GOING TO GO?

I DON'T KNOW.

ZURICH.

YOU GOING TO BE AN ANALYST?

I SENT SOME MONEY OVER, AND A FRIEND OF MINE, WE WENT TOGETHER.

GO LITERALLY KNOCKING ON THE DOOR.

THEY SAID YOU'RE CONFORTI.

YES, I AM.

19-YEAR-OLD KID.

THEY SAID, WHY DON'T YOU GO HOME.

SINCE YOU'RE HERE, GO DO A JUNG TOUR.

LOOK AT THE JUNG TOWER, READ SOME BOOKS.

BUT SOMEHOW I KNEW IT WAS PART OF MY LIFE.

JUST IN SEQUEL TO THAT IT WENT BACK TO WHEN I WAS 26 IN NEW YORK AND MAYBE NINE YEARS AGO I WAS INVITED TO DO LECTURES IN SWITZERLAND.

IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE HOMECOMING.

>> YOU WERE AT GODDARD DURING THE GOLDEN YEARS.

THIS IS THE EARLY '70s?

>> YES.

>> WILD TIME.

>> GODDARD SAVED MY LIFE.

I WAS GROWING UP IN NEW YORK, BIG ITALIAN NEIGHBORHOOD.

YOU ASSUME PARAMETERS GOING UP LIKE THAT BUT MY MIND TOOK ME TO OTHER DOMAINS.

I MEET A TEACHER IN NEW YORK THAT WAS TEACHING IN VERMONT.

I HEARD ABOUT THESE EXPERIMENTAL COLLEGES.

I VISITED GODDARD AND I SAID, I'M HOME.

THEY WERE STUDYING EVERYTHING FROM FANG ZAPPA'S WORK, SOMEONE WHO WAS A DEWIST.

I LEARNED ABOUT EDUCATION.

WE HAD ST.

PAUL CLASSES, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN PEOPLE LIVING COMMUNALLY.

IT OPENED MY EYES TO A BIGGER WORLD.

I THANK GOD EVERY DAY I WENT THERE.

>> YOU WENT ON, YOU GOT YOUR PH.D AT UNION, CERTIFIED IN NEW YORK STUDIED WITH ROBERT LANG.

LET'S GET RIGHT TO WHAT YOUR SPECIALTY IS.

YOU WORK IN PATTERNS.

PATTERNS OF BEHAVIOR AND FORM.

YOU REFER TO THESE AS FIELDS OR ARCHETYPES.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> REMEMBER THE WOODY ALLEN MOVIE ANNIE HALL?

THEY ARE SITTING ON A PARK BENCH ONE DAY WATCHING PEOPLE GO BY.

THEY WATCH PEOPLE AND HE SAYS, HERE'S THE STORY OF THIS COUPLE.

JUST BY WATCHING HOW THEY WALK, HOW THEY TALK, HOW THEY TOUCH EACH OTHER OR DON'T TOUC EACH OTHER.

THAT'S MY WAY OF LIFE.

JUST WATCHING THINGS.

IT'S A CURSE AND A BLESSING.

WHEN I LOOK AT A GIVEN SITUATION IT'S LIKE SEEING MULTITUDES OF EXPERIENCES BEHIND IT, THE DYNAMICS THAT ARE PART OF YOUR LIFE.

SO I WAS INFUSED WITH A SENSE OF SOMETHING A LOT BIGGER THAN WHAT WE SEE.

THAT YOU'RE EMBEDDED IN A MUCH LARGER DOMAIN.

TO UNDERSTAND THIS I BEGAN DOING STUDIES IN MANY DIFFERENT FIELDS FROM PHYSICS TO MATHEMATICS TO ZOOLOGY, EMBRYOLOGY.

I WANTED TO SEE HOW DO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS THAT GROW, THESE PATTERNS.

THEN I BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE PATTERN AS WE SEE IT IS NOT AN AUTONOMOUS THING.

WHEN YOU BEGIN TO SEE THE PATTERN IS AN EXPRESSION OF SOME UNDERLYING DRAMA.

SORT OF A NO-BRAINER BUT IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO GET THERE.

WHEN YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE PATTERN YOU CAN UNDERSTAND SO MUCH ABOUT ONE'S LIFE.

>> JUNGIANS SOMETIMES GO TO FAIRY TALES OR ARCHETYPE OF THE HERO OR THE PRINCESS.

WHATEVER TO EXPLAIN THIS.

AM I ON THE RIGHT TRACK?

>> WHAT IT IS, WE TEND TO LOOK AT OUR LIFE AND PSYCHOLOGISTS SAY WE'RE THIS WAY BECAUSE OF OUR PAST, OUR PARENTS.

OF COURSE THAT'S PART OF IT, BUT I WILL NEVER -- I'M NEVER CONTENT WITH WE ARE THE WAY WE WERE BECAUSE OF OUR UPBRINGING.

BUT WHEN YOU BEGIN TO SEE A LIFE HAS SOME CONSISTENT PROPERTIES TO IT FROM CHILDHOOD TO ADOLESCENCE UP TO YOUR 80s THERE'S SOMETHING.

THAT'S THE OTHER HIT FOR ME WITH THIS WORK.

I REALIZE THAT WE ARE EMBEDDED IN PATTERNS.

LIKE A FAIRY TALE YOU BEGIN TO SEE, THIS IS A CINDERELLA TALE.

THIS IS THE PINOCCHIO TALE OR WHATEVER.

YOU BEGIN TO FIND SOME UNCANNY WAYS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL DRAWS TO THEM PEOPLE THAT WILL FULFILL THAT DRAMA.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S EXCITING AND ALSO A DARK SIDE OF THESE FINDING IS WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND IT YOU CAN HELP SOMEBODY MAKE A CHANGE AND SEE THAT A PERSON IS EMBEDDED IN ETERNAL DRAMA.

THAT'S A GIFT.

>> YOU AS A PSYCHO ANALYST CAN PROBABLY SEE T. HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE ARE BEING INFLUENCED BY AN ARC TYPE OR A STORY?

IS THERE A WAY THAT WE AS LAYPEOPLE CAN OR DO WE NEED TO GO TO A SPECIALIST?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE DYNAMICS AT WORK IF WE'RE INTERESTED TO LOOK?

MAYBE IT'S JUST LOOKING.

>> TWO SIMPLE THINGS.

ONE IS LOOK AT WHAT REALLY MOVES YOU IN YOUR LIFE.

WHAT'S THE THING THAT REALLY MOVES THIS INDIVIDUAL.

IT COULD BE WORKING WITH FLOWERS OR PLANTS.

IT COULD BE INTERVIEWING PEOPLE LIKE THIS.

IT COULD BE WANTING TO LOOK AT PATTERNS.

YOU BEGIN TO SEE THERE'S PROBABLY AN EXPRESSION OF SOME DESTINY OF ONE'S LIFE.

IT'S A ATTERN THEY ARE IN.

ON THE DARKER SIDE WHEN YOU BEGIN TO SEE THERE'S SOME BEHAVIOR OR TENDENCY YOU HAVE NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO IT EXPRESSES ITSELF, LOOK AT REPETITIVE PATTERNS, HOW YOU ENGAGE IN SAME KINDS OF ISSUES WITH YOUR BOSS, YOUR WIFE, YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR KIDS, YOUR TEACHER, YOUR ANALYST.

IT'S THE SAME DRAMA MANY TIMES.

YOU SAY WHAT AM I CAUGHT IN?

THESE PATTERNS IN MANY WAYS ARE LARGER THAN US AND THEY HAVE A WAY OF ABSORBING INDIVIDUAL INTO THEM.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW T. IT'S LIKE YOU'RE ON A RUNAWAY TRAIN SOMETIMES.

THEY ARE CREATIVE BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOME WAY TO NEGOTIATE WITH IT YOU'LL BE TAKEN OVER AND LIFE GETS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT AND AT TIMES DARK.

VERY DARK.

>> WHAT MIGHT BE A COMMON ONE THAT MIGHT SHOW UP AT WORK AND AT HOME?

EVERYBODY IS PICKING ON ME.

IS THAT THE KIND OF THING?

>> PATTERN OF ABANDONMENT.

MANY PEOPLE LIVE WITH ABANDONMENT.

IF THAT'S YOUR CORE ISSUE IF THE LIFE IS CENTERED AROUND THIS THING THEY WILL DO TWO THINGS GENERALLY.

ON ONE HAND THEY WILL ENGAGE IN RELATIONSHIPS WHERE THEY TRY TO HOLD ON TO SOMEBODY SO DESPERATELY SO THEY DON'T GO AWAY.

THE OTHER PART IS THEY ARE PUSHING AWAY PEOPLE.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO BE THERE FOR ME.

YOU START SUBTLY PUSHING AWAY.

WHAT HAPPENS THEN, IT'S HIGHLY CHOREOGRAPHED DRAMA WHERE THEY WILL FIND SOMEBODY THAT MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE AN ACHILLES HEEL AND START SPARRING WITH YOU, I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE ME.

WELL, I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO START TROUBLE WITH ME.

WHAT ARE WE DOING?

THIS IS THE POWER THAT'S GOT ME, THAT THESE PATTERNS ARE SO PERVASIVE THAT THEY TAKE OVER.

THEY ACTUALLY CONSUME INDIVIDUALS INTO THEM.

REALIZE THE PATTERNS ARE IN INDEPENDENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

THE INDIVIDUAL SEEMS TO DIP INTO THE DRAMA BUT THE PROPERTIES OF THE PATTERN RUN AS THOUGH THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CHOREOGRAPHY AND WE THEN ARE ASKED TO LIVE WITH IT.

>> ANOTHER THING, WHEN IS OUR STORY -- OUR STORY THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING NORMAL AND WHEN IS IT PATHOLOGY?

>> PAST TWO YEARS I HAVE TAKEN A MAJOR TRANSITION IN MY WORK.

I TAUGHT PSYCHOPATH HOLLING AND DOCK RAL PROGRAMS.

I CAN NEVER DO THAT AGAIN.

IS THIS A COUPLE, MISGUIDED COUPLE, THEIR BEHAVIOR IS SICK, LOOK WHAT THEY AR DOING OVER HERE, IT DOESN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING.

PATHOLOGY IS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT DEVIATES FROM THE NORM.

SHIFT THE PARADIGM WHEN IS WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS WORK.

EVERY BEHAVIOR IS CONSISTENT WITH SOME DRAMA.

WE NEED TO ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION, WHICH IS WHAT DRAMA IS THIS STORY PART OF?

NOW WE SAY EVERY PICTURE TELLS A STORY.

I REVERSE THAT TOO.

EVERY STORY HAS A PICTURE.

IF YOU SEE SOMEBODY DOING BEHAVIOR THAT LOOKS REALLY ODD OR SO-CALLED BIZARRE OR PERVERSE IF YOU TRACK IT BACK YOU'LL FIND A STORY.

BIGGER THAN THE INDIVIDUAL.

MAYBE IN MYTHOLOGY WE ARE SEEING THIS, MAYBE IN ANCIENT CULTURES, SOME ANCIENT TRADITION WHERE THIS BEHAVIOR WAS PART OF THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

YOU SEE HOW DIFFERENT IT IS.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THESE INNATE PROPERTIES, ARCHETYPES, WILL EXPRESS THEMSELVES THROUGH BEHAVIOR WHETHER YOU KNOW IT OR NOT AND IT'S NOT ABOUT PATHOLOGY.

IT GETS REGRESSIVE, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT AND IT BEGINS TO TAKE OVER THE INDIVIDUAL AND YOU'RE CONSUMED BY IT, IT GETS CREATIVE WHEN YOU SAY MY GOD THIS NEVER DAWNED ON ME THIS IS SOME RITE OF PASSAGE.

>> HOW DO YOU GOUT OUT OF IT?

REPETITION IS COMFORTABLE, WE REPEAT THESE THINGS.

HOW DO WE MOVE OUT?

>> THE FIRST STEP IS YOU HAVE TO DO PUT A STICK IN THE WHEEL WHEN THIS THING IS GOING.

YOU NEED SOMEBODY THAT CAN STEP OUT OF THE DRAMA.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT WITHOUT SOME MENTORING OR ANALYSIS.

>> YOU HAVE TO FIND IT.

>> FATE.

GREAT WORD.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FATE AND DESTINY IS CHARACTER.

DESTINY IS ABOUT CHARACTER WHERE ONE CAN WORK WITH IT.

FATE IS BEING BLINDLY PULLED ALONG.

YOU NEED TO BE ACTIVELY ENGAGED WITH THESE PATTERNS.

YOU NEED THE CAPACITY TO REFLECT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PH.D, A GRADUATE DEGREE, HAVE TO GO THROUGH COLLEGE.

CAPACITY TO REFLECT ON WHAT'S HAPPENING IN FRONT OF YOU.

A FARMER HAS TO REFLECT ON A PATTERN.

THEY SEE ANIMALS BEHAVING IN A CERTAIN WAY.

THAT'S ODD.

LET'S TAKE IN CHINA WHEN THEY LOOK AT COWS AND DIFFERENT ANIMALS, WHAT ARE THE SIGNS OF IMPENDING EARTHQUAKE?

ANIMALS BEGIN TO ACT IN SEEMINGLY BIZARRE WAYS.

MY GOD, IF THE ANIMALS ARE DOING THIS WE KNOW FROM 2,000 YEARS OF HISTORY ANIMALS DO THIS IN RESPONSE TO AN IMPENDING EARTHQUAKE.

IT'S NOT SICK.

>> ANOTHER THING THAT 15 YEARS AGO YOU TAKE THIS IDEA OF PATTERNS AND JUNGIAN ANALYSIS, YOU DECIDE, I'M GOING TO START BRINGING SCIENTISTS TOGETHER AND THEOLOGISTS TOGETHER.

SUB ATOMIC PATTERNS, PULL THESE PEOPLE TOGETHER.

THIS HAS BEEN THE FOCAL POINT FOR PEOPLE FROM A WIDE VARIETY OF DISCIPLINES TO COME TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT THIS STUFF.

HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THIS IDEA?

>> I HAVE TO GIVE CREDIT TO ANTIOCH.

I WAS TEACHING THERE.

I HAD THIS IDEA AND THE ADD MY STATION, THE PROVOST SAID, LOOK, YOU'VE GOT A GREAT REPUTATION.

JUST RUN WITH IT.

JUST GO.

I MADE MY PILGRIMAGE, FIRST I VISITED MY FAMILY IN SICELY THEN TO ASSISI.

THE MOMENT I WALKED INTO THE VILLAGE, MEDIEVAL VILLAGE AS YOU KNOW, I WAS SO TAKEN BY THE AMBIENCE.

YOU TALK ABOUT PATTERNS COMING OVER YOU.

I WAS TAKEN OVER BY SOMETHING.

I SAID I'VE GOT TO COME BACK HERE.

I HAVE TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER WHERE I GET PEOPLE WHO I REALLY RESPECT FROM ALL THESE DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS AND TALK.

VAGUE TERMS, THUS WAS BORN THE CONFERENCE.

HAD TO BE ASSISI BECAUSE THE WHOLE LIFE OF ST.

FRANCIS IS ABOUT THE STRUGGLE I WOULD SAY.

GOD.

SPIRIT.

MATTER.

BODY.

THAT'S WHAT WE LOOK AT.

I FOUND A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT KNOW ABOUT SPIRIT DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE MATTER WORLD.

PEOPLE THAT KNOW ABOUT MATTER DON'T SEEM TO KNOW MUCH ABOUT SPIRIT WORLD.

SO I BROUGHT LEADERS FROM AROUND THE WORLD.

PEOPLE THAT HAVE WRITTEN THREE, 400 BOOKS.

WHO WAS A CONCERT VIOLINIST.

WHO WAS A CHILD PRODIGY.

THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL PIONEERS LOOKING AT THESE SUBTLE THINGS THAT ORIENT LIFE, WHETHER ORGANIC LIFE, INDIVIDUAL, SYSTEMS, GLOBAL ECONOMY.

>> YOU'RE BRINGING IN A LOT OF ARTISTS NOW.

YOU HAD A DANCE THEIR PIPT WHO THERAPIST WHOCAN LOOK AT PEOPLEL THEIR STORY.

YOU'RE WORKING ON A FILM NOW.

THAT INFUSION.

WHERE IS THAT GOING TO TAKE THE CONFERENCE?

>> FIRST, WHY WE DID NOT DO FILM -- WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH ARTS THE FIRST TE YEARS.

I REALIZED WE NEEDED A SOLID BACKGROUND IN THE SCIENCES, DYNAMIC SYSTEMS, FIELD THEORY.

I KNEW THE ARTS HAD TO COME INTO THIS.

I LOVE THE ARTS ALSO.

I USED TO BE IN ROCK BANDS.

I LIVE SIN ETHAT THEATERS AND POETRY.

WE BEGAN BRINGING THEM IN.

THE ARTS ARE ANY ARTISTIC PROCESS IS INSPIRED BY ARCHETYPES.

I DON'T CARE WHAT WORD YOU WANT TO USE.

I SPIRED BY SOMETHING.

THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CREATIVE PROCESS, YOU CAN BEGIN TO SEE THESE ETERNAL DRAMAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

THE MOVIE -- DIFFICULT MOVIE TO WATCH, SOPHIE'S CHOICE.

THESE ARE ARCHETYPE AL THEMES, UNIVERSAL THINGS.

UNDER THE TUSCAN SUN.

THE MOVIE MIRACLE.

YOU BEGIN TO SEE THE CONTEMPORARY STORY LINES ARE REALLY ETERNAL STORIES.

WHEN THIS RAG TAG TEAM IN THE GO UP AGAINST THESE GOLIATH PEOPLE FROM RUSSIA THAT NEVER LOST IN 20 YEARS IT'S A DAVID AND GOLIATH TALE.

IT'S ETERNAL THEMES BEING REPLAYED IN EVERY MORE INCREASE GLG INTERESTING AND COMPELLING WAS.

>> THEY MAY REFLECT OUR OWN STORIES SO WE UNDERSTAND THEM BETTER.

>> EXACTLY.

>> PUTTING SOME OF THESE THINGS TO PRACTICE, YOU WORK WITH ORGANIZATIONS.

HOW IS THIS WORK WITH PATTERNS GOING TO HELP IN AN ORGANIZATION WHEN YOU GO IN?

A MANDATE OF EVERY LIVING SYSTEM IS TO EXPRESS ITS UPPED LYING DYNAMICS, WHETHER IT'S A PLANT, A ROSE, A HIBISCUS, A FUSCIA THERE ARE CERTAIN WAYS IT HAS TO COME OUT TO BE AUTHENTIC TO ITS NATURE.

PEOPLE ARE THE SAME.

I HAVE BEGUN TO FIND THAT ORGANIZATIONS ARE THE SAME.

ORGANIZATIONS ARE BUILT ON CERTAIN PREMISES.

YOU WITH A CONSCIOUS PREMISE WHICH IS WE HAVE A MISSION STATEMENT.

THERE'S SOMETHING UNDERNEATH IT.

I BEGAN TO CONSULT ONE GOVERNMENT AGENCY IN CANADA, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.

MY WORK IS UNCOVER WHAT IS THE UNDERLYING DRAMA OF THIS SYSTEM?

>> FOR GOOD OR ILL.

>> UNDERLYING PATTERN.

PATTERNS ARE NOT GOOD OR BAD.

IT'S HOW THEY ARE USED.

WHEN YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT, HERE'S ONE ORGANIZATION TRYING TO DEVELOP A SENSE OF CONTINUITY AND ALL THIS, THE LEADER OF IT COULD BE PULLED BY THE GOVERNMENT WITHIN ANY GIVEN DAY AND ASKED TO LEAVE.

IT WAS NEVER TALKED ABOUT.

NEVER DISCUSSED.

IT WAS LIKE THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

WHAT I DO IS I ARTICULATE THESE DRAMAS AND YOU BEGIN TO SEE WHAT CAN WE THEN ANTICIPATE?

IF THIS IS THE DRAMA TODAY WHERE IS IT LIKELY TO GO IF UNATTENDED.

VERY PRODUCTIVE AND USEFUL.

>> WHAT ABOUT PATTERNS YOU ALSO WORK WITH PUBLIC POLICY.

IS THERE A PATTERN THAT OUR NATION HAS NOW?

YOU TALK ABOUT PATTERNS IN BENSON HURST THAT YOU SAW AS A LITTLE BOY.

HOW DOES SEEING OUR CULTURAL OR NATIONAL DRAMA OR STORY HELP US?

>> THE BIG PICTURE IS THAT EVERYTHING WE DO IS AN EXPRESSION OF SOME -- OF A DRAMA.

THAT'S A GIVEN.

IN TERMS OF POLITICS, FOR INSTANCE, I WROTE ABOUT THIS, I GAVE A LECTURE YEARS BEFORE BUSH EVER CAME INTO POWER.

WHEN HE WAS JUST RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

I MADE A LOT OF PREDICTIONS.

I NEVER REALLY CARED ABOUT POLITICS.

I STILL HAVE THAT TEMPERAMENT BUT I MADE A NUMBER OF PREDICTIONS AND BASICALLY, THEY ALL CAME TRUE.

BECAUSE SUCH AS WE WOULD HAVE TO BE BROUGHT INTO WAR IMMEDIATELY.

WE WOULD BE ALIENATED FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

WE WOULD BE STRIVING FOR POSITION OF WORLD SUPREMACY -- >> BECAUSE?

>> THIS IS WHERE THE ARCHITECT CAME IN.

I SAID BUSH IS A FATHER'S SON.

THERE'S MYTHS AND PATTERNS AND BIBLE STORIES OF THE FATHER-SON.

WHEN ONE IS IN THE DRAMA THERE'S CERTAIN INEVITABILITIES.

BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT JUST REDUCTIVE, IF YOU'RE A FATHER-SON, I THINK HE IS A WEAK FATHER'S SON.

HE'S NOT UP TO THE FATHER'S DESCRENGT.

DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME COMPELLING NATURE.

NOT THAT THE SENIOR BUSH WAS THE GREATEST IN THE WORLD BUT HE WAS A STRONGER MAN.

YOU KNEW THE SON WOULD DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER TO PROVE HE WAS WORTHY OF THE POSITION.

IN THE LECTURE I SAID WITH THIS NEED TO PROVE HIMSELF HE'S GOING TO MAKE AMERICA PAY AND MAKE SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE PAY FOR THIS BY BRINGING US INTO WAR TO PROVE HIS PERSONAL SUPREMACY.

>> PLAYING OUT HIS OWN DRAMA.

>> THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN CORPORATIONS, SYSTEMS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT BUSH BASHING.

IT'S ABOUT READING PATTERNS.

ACTUALLY, I WAS CONTACTED BY THE AMBASSADOR OF THE CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRY A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.

WOULD YOU WORK WITH US ON A PEACE PROJECT?

OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN AT WAR FOR FIVE, 600 YEARS.

WE'RE LOSING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

THE COUNTRY IS ON THE VERGE OF CIVIL WAR.

HE SAID, IF YOU CAN ARTICULATE WHAT IS DRIVING THESE BOUNDARY DISPUTES WHICH WORDS ARE NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND, POLITICIANS DOT GET.

IF YOU COULD LOOK AT WHAT IS THE ARCHETYPE AL NATURE OF THIS WAR.

WE DID A PROPOSAL AND ARE STILL WAITING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS TO IT.

PEOPLE ARE SEEING ANOTHER LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND REFLECTION THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT AGGRESSION, ABOUT SUPREMACY.

THE PATTERN TAKES YOU OVER.

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE DRAWN -- THIS IS GRAND SCALE.

>> INDEED.

WELL, BECAUSE PLAY SEEMS VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU, YOUR ORIGINAL HOME, IN ASSISI.

THINGS SOMETIMES IN THE KEYS IN FLORIDA, OTHER PLACES AND BRATTLEBORO.

WHY DID YOU SETTLE IN BRATTLEBORO?

DOES IT SPILL WORK FOR YOU?

>> IT WORKS FOR ME VERY WELL.

GOT OUT OF COLLEGE.

I HAD LIKE 19 ADDRESSES BEFORE I WAS 24 YEARS OLD.

I REALLY NEED HOME.

IT'S A PLACE TO CALL HOME AND SETTLE INTO AND HAVE A COMMUNITY.

I DROVE TO BRATTLEBORO ONE DAY AND I SAID, AGAIN, SOMETHING ABOUT IT WORKS.

I COULDN'T ARTICULATE IT.

IT WORKED.

I HAVE ESTABLISHED A HOME THERE, I'M RAISING MY FAMILY THERE.

I LOVE BRATTLEBORO.

I WISH WE HAD THE WATER LIKE YOU HAVE HERE.

THE BIG LAKE.

>> YOU HAD THE WARHOL SHOW, PERFECT FOR DISCUSSIONS OF ARCHETYPE AL PATTERNING.

>> BUT IN TERMS OF PLACE YOU'RE GROWING UP IN POLICEMAN IN A VERY TIGHT ITALIAN NEIGHBORHOOD I WAS INFLUENCED BY CULTURE AND LANGUAGE.

THE MAJOR THING I GOT GROWING UP THAT WAY WHICH HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE IN MY LIFE IS REALITY OF ANOTHER WORLD.

YOU GO TO YOUR GRANDPARENTS' HOME YOU HEAR NOT EVEN ITALIAN BUT SICILIAN SPOKEN, SOMETIMES THNEO-POLL TAN.

THE SMELL OF THE FOODS.

THE BUILDING HAS A SMELL OF ANOTHER CULTURE.

WHEN YOU GO THERE YOU'RE TRANSPORTED SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> LIKE YOU'RE NOT IN MAINSTREAM AMERICA ANY MORE.

>> NO.

I THINK THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL THING THAT HELPED ME UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW WHAT?

THE DAILY WORLD WE LIVE IN IS ONE PART OF A LARGER DOMAIN.

ONE EVER THE TEACHERS WHEN I WENT TO NEW YORK INSTITUTE SAID WHEN DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS -- -- EVERYONE SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS.

I SAID, IT'S BEING IN MY GRANDPARENTS HOME.

THERE WAS SOMETHING SO MUCH BIGGER, RICHER, WITH OWN LANGUAGE, CULTURE, TRADITIONS, ITS OWN FOOD.

IT'S AN IMMERSION.

I RAISED MY SON BILINGUALLY.

THE FIRST SIX YEARS WE SPOKE ALMOST ALL ITALIAN TO HIM.

WE MADE SAUSAGES TOGETHER.

PUT YOUR FEET IN THIS OTHER WORLD TO REALIZE THERE'S A LOT MORE TO LIFE THAN WITH YOU SEE.

IF ANYTHING THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

WHAT WE TEND TO SEE IS JUST A SMALL PIECE.

THE MORE YOU GET CAUGHT IN THE PATTERNS YOU'RE SEEING JUST A TINY PIECE OF THE WORLD.

PATTERNS GIVE YOU THE PICTURE.

>> IT'S EVEN THERE IN THE INITIAL INTERVIEW WHICH WE'RE DOING NOW.

WHAT CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY LEARN WHEN YOU FIRST MEET SOMEBODY?

>> THE WHOLE PATTERN IS EXPOSED IN THE FIRST SESSION.

THINK OF THE FIRST TIME YOU MET YOUR HUSBAND.

IN THE FIRED OR SECOND TIME YOU MEET THAT PERSON THEY EXPRESS THEIR STORY TO YOU IN THE WAY THEY ENGAGE WITH YOU, WHAT THEY BRING YOU, HOW THEY TREAT YOU, HOW YOU TREAT THEM, THE CHEMISTRY BETWEEN YOU.

YOU GET THIS PATTERN AND THEY ARE BRINGING THE PATTERN LIKE A HOLOGRAM.

AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT ONE LITTLE PIECE IS TELLING YOU THE WHOLE STORY.

>> LOOK AT THOSE CAREFULLY.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO WORK WITH COUPLES THINKING ABOUT GETTING MATTER.

>> WE'RE ALL OUT OF TIME.

MIME ALE CONFORTI, HEAD OF THE ASSISI CONFERENCES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "PROFILE."