-Well, good afternoon, everyone.

Hello, Michael.

-Hello.

-Thank you for being here.

-My great pleasure.

-And thank you, Robert, for the warm introduction.

This is a wonderful occasion, because I think what Michael represents to the library is something that we cannot even quantify.

And we're so grateful that he's here to tell his friend Liza's story.

Michael's been a partner with the library for many, many years, wearing many different hats.

And at the top of all of that is his creative vision as an artist, but, also, the way that he has mastered preserving the Great American Songbook, first and foremost, helping us do that work with our collections, and, also, really helping translate these amazing cultural treasures that we have in the form of music for generations to come.

And one of the things that's amazing about Liza's work and Michael's work that we were talking about a bit earlier is the timeless character of the music that you both have championed.

And I'm really excited to get into the conversation.

So, Michael, tell us about how you came to know Miss Minnelli and how your friendship blossomed.

-I met Liza in 1983.

I was working for Ira Gershwin.

And I met her at a screening at the Motion Picture Academy of Arts and Sciences of the restoration of her mother's film "A Star is Born."

And meeting Liza was like meeting a long-lost cousin, because I was friends with Liza's father, Vincent Minnelli, who was close friends with the Gershwin brothers.

And Vincent had met the Gershwins in the '20s in New York.

So there was a continuum, and Vincent would always talk about Liza.

And when I met her... after a short period of time, she said, "You know from now on we're joined at the hip?"

-Brown-Cáceres: Mm-hmm.

-And I thought, "Yeah, really?"

And that's what happened.

We became friends.

And it was the music that bonded us, because I was shortly after that playing her father's Christmas party.

And there were all these amazing people there -- Gene Kelly and, I mean, you name it.

It was Old Hollywood.

And I'd play everybody's songs on the piano, and they'd all look at me like, "How does this kid know these songs?

", that sort of thing.

But at the end of the evening, Liza said, "Okay, kid.

We're together."

And she came in every night to the piano bar where I was working, and we bonded.

-Brown-Cáceres: I heard she stood you up a couple times in the book.

-Well, I wasn't gonna get into that, but -- -Brown-Cáceres: You don't have to.

They have to read the book.

That's the ploy there.

-Yes.

But eventually, we connect.

-Yes.

Yeah.

So, fast-forwarding to this moment now and the years of work that went into this book, how did the project to document her version of the facts come into fruition, and what was your role in that whole process?

-Many people, as you can imagine, had asked Eliza to write a book.

And she always said, "No, no.

I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not gonna go there."

And when I would encourage her to do it, she would always say, "Wait till I'm dead.

You can tell everything.

Just wait till I'm dead."

But over the last several years, so many people were telling her story incorrectly, people portraying her -- Imagine all these people -- drag queens, you name it -- all these people doing Liza.

She'd always call me and say, "Where's my check?"

You know, not getting any money for it, but more importantly, feeling as if she didn't have a voice in how she is perceived and portrayed.

And so I said, "You know, if you don't tell your story, there will be no document of how you feel, of your version."

And she finally started to realize that that was important.

And it was a 10-year period of conversations which I would record casually, and that became the nucleus of this autobiography.

-Wonderful.

One of the things that I believe really sets this book apart from other books that other major figures in entertainment put out is that you truly... I felt close to Liza by the end of it, which after reading it, I understand that's what she always aimed to do with her performances and the repertoire she was selecting.

And what are your thoughts on the way that she decided to tell her story and open herself up to all of us, even though she came from these extraordinary circumstances and had extraordinary people in her life from the very get-go?

But we spend these 300 some odd pages with Liza, the human being who is just like one of us.

And that was a remarkable accomplishment in this book.

So if you can kind of frame that a bit for us.

-Absolutely.

I must say that I was surprised that she was so forthright and honest about her story, because Liza has always protected herself and her family.

Her mother taught her that you never reveal any of the inner stuff, no matter what is going on, it's always about the work.

And she always viewed the press not as an adversary, but something to be wary of.

And so for her to go to this place was a sea change in that she very easily could have written a very nice book that would have done well and would have told her story on one level.

But one of the motivating factors is that she wanted to talk about her struggles with addiction, which is now called SUD -- substance use disorder.

And it became essential to include that in her story, because she has reached the age of 80 and has survived it and wanted to encourage people who might have that issue to know that they're not alone and to give them hope.

And there is a selflessness in opening herself up to tell that story that I find remarkable.

-Great.

There are so many remarkable figures from our collective history that appear in this story who served as mentors, as family, as chosen family, as blood family for Liza.

And it's kind of wild to inhabit the world of Liza and Kander and Ebb, like, when they first met.

Can you tell us about that moment and that relationship as it blossomed throughout their journeys together?

-Yes.

Liza was always looking for her own identity, because she was always the daughter of Judy Garland.

And she wanted to be a dancer.

She didn't want to be a singer.

Dancing was the thing.

But it evolved into being an all-around performer, which included singing.

And people don't really think of Liza as a dancer per se, but one of her great gifts is her ability to physically move in a way that tells her story.

She was looking for that identity, and she started admiring people who she hoped to meet, like Charles Aznavour.

And she -- I'd have to go back and look exactly at the moment she met John Kander and Fred Ebb, but there was a connection that they saw in her, this extraordinary untapped talent, even though she was already having success on some levels.

They saw something deeper in her, and they saw the potential that she had.

And she immediately asked them if they would help her, if they would write special material for her.

And they did, because it was almost like investing in someone.

And they conspired to help Liza get the lead role in "Flora the Red Menace" on Broadway when the director, George Abbott, absolutely did not want her to have that part.

But they knew that it was for Liza, and it was with their help that she became the youngest person ever to win a Tony Award.

But that's the thing about Liza, is that she always worked very, very hard.

She worked harder than anybody I have ever known in being the best at what she can do and then learn how to entertain and make it look easy.

And so she always was canny in choosing the people that she had around her.

So she found John Kander, Fred Ebb.

She found Halston.

She found Bob Fosse.

Later, she was one of the first people to work with Susan Stroman in a large setting.

So she always had the ability to tap different people who could help her tell her story and find her identity.

And in turn, she always glorified them and helped them in developing their own gifts.

I don't know anybody like her who's ever done that on that level.

-Mm-hmm.

And one of the things that if you are not in the arts world and don't maybe have as much direct experience with seeing how relationships evolve over the years in your creative community, this book gives us some wonderful examples of how people who were peers and friends of Liza rose at the same time and how they worked together.

And one of the loveliest examples, I will say, of that is Marvin Hamlisch, whose papers we have at the library, with thanks to his wife.

And tell us a bit about their relationship and their creative partnership.

Because if you can think of this, like, Marvin Hamlisch, if you don't know him by name, "A Chorus Line," but 18,000 other amazing things that have shaped our culture.

And Liza literally called her friend, "Hey, I need some arrangements.

Can you be the MD for this show?"

But it was Marvin Hamlisch when he was, like, not 70.

So how was their relationship over the years?

-It was amazing.

Marvin and Liza were so close that if Liza became ill, he was her medical proxy.

She literally trusted her life with him.

They met when they were both kids.

They were in their teens.

And Marvin was this quirky guy who came from a very poor family.

His father was a professional accordionist, accordion player, And Liza's first recording, the first time she ever went into a studio and made a recording, was to do a demo of four songs that Marvin wrote for Liza's mother.

And so Liza goes into the studio when she's like 15 or 16 and sings these four songs of Marvin's.

And, so, again, she recognized Marvin's talent very early on, and he was stalwart for her, because he did many layouts of arrangements.

And he had what Liza has, which is a theatricality and an understanding of the language and how to amplify her gifts.

So it went back.

It went back that far.

And Marvin would have told you that there was a period of his life where he had a very, very big ego, and he had to deal with that, because he was burning bridges.

And in that period, I said to Liza, "What happened to Marvin?"

She said, "Three Oscars."

-Brown-Cáceres: Oh.

[ Laughter ] -Because he won three Oscars on the same night.

-Brown-Cáceres: Wow.

-And I don't think anybody in history has ever done that before or since.

-Well, I'll put it in a little plug for you all to visit the library on Capitol Hill, because we have Marvin Hamlisch's PEGOT awards on display.

So that's his Pulitzer, Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, Tony.

He's only one of two people to earn that status.

The second is Richard Rodgers, whose papers we also have.

And, then, you can go down the hall and see Here to Stay, which is our permanent exhibit on George and Ira Gershwin, who have a huge role in this whole story because of Ira Gershwin's relationship with Liza and her family.

Can you tell us a bit more about that connection specifically and how Ira played a role in Liza's life over time and how the music of both Gershwin brothers were a part of her life creatively?

-Yes.

Yes indeed.

I met Ira Gershwin in 1977 when I was 20 years old, thanks to the kindness of a lady named June Levant, who was the widow of the great pianist, wit, and greatest Gershwin interpreter ever, Oscar Levant.

And June was friends with Ira Gershwin's wife Leonore, and Leonore asked to meet me, and I ended up working for Ira.

Mr.

Gershwin was 80 years old.

George Gershwin had died in July of 1937 at the age of 38 from a brain tumor, but Ira lived a very long life.

And he asked me to start working for him, cataloging his music and his memorabilia.

Well, I met Vincent Minnelli.

Liza's father, Vincent, was an iconic Hollywood film director, and he'd talk about Liza all the time.

But Vincent was friends with the Gershwin brothers going back to the 1920s.

And Vincent's favorite song was "Embraceable You," which he would sing at parties.

And Liza was named after the Gershwin song "Liza" from a 1929 show called "Show Girl."

So when I met Liza, it was like meeting my sister, you know, because of that Gershwin connection through Ira and my closeness with Vincent.

And so it was because of the Gershwins that I met Liza.

And my association with the Library of Congress began because of Ira and Leonore Gershwin.

And in 1982, when this cache of Gershwin manuscripts turned up in Secaucus, new Jersey.

I was deputized as a government official to be able to legally bring these 87 manuscripts to the Library of Congress.

And after Ira's death, I donated several of my own Gershwin manuscripts and memorabilia to the library, and we've maintained a relationship of various projects which I treasure.

The Gershwin room is absolutely wonderful, even though it's vexing to me to see the piano that I'd always practice on at Ira's home now behind a rope.

[ Laughs ] And I went over -- One day, I was in the gallery, and I went over to the piano and was gonna hit a note.

And the guard -- you know, I was admonished.

I was gonna be arrested for hitting a note.

"But this piano knows me!"

[ Laughter ] "No!"

Brown-Cáceres: You're always welcome.

-And on Ira's desk, which was re-created, I donated an old Bakelite pencil sharpener because Ira had given me this old pencil sharpener.

And I had it, and years later, when the room became real, I donated the pencil sharpener and some of these little caviar cans that Ira used to keep to put his paper clips and things in, so just to add little touches of authenticity to -- -You can in fact see the pencil sharpener and, then, see George's pencil sharpener in the drawer of his desk.

Two very different vibes between the two pencil sharpeners, believe it or not.

Things we enjoy at the library.

-[ Laughs ] -We also have in there George's first metronome, which is a lovely little gesture to analog that we need to maintain front and center there.

But... Liza and her parents -- it's a central part of the story of her life.

And at the end of the day, it's a daughter and her parents, and we can strip away all of the business of celebrity and accomplishment.

She spent so much of her creative career... channeling energy towards honoring her parents' work in the way that she felt they deserved, particularly with her father later on.

How did she feel that responsibility, and what was her kind of vision with manifesting, you know, an homage to her father in a show that she was producing and performing in New York, for example?

-Yes.

People know Judy Garland, but fewer people know about the legacy of Vincent Minnelli.

And so it was always important to Liza to keep his legacy alive, because I see more of Vincent in Liza than I do of her mother, because of the way she thinks.

Her genius at being able to manage and create every aspect of her performance came from her father.

The setting -- the stage setting -- the lighting, the programming of the songs, all of these minutiae which add up to what made her iconic -- most of that came from her dad.

Because when he was shooting a film -- let's say "Gigi," for which he won an Oscar for his direction, it took him a day to get the swans in this pool in this one scene, to have the right moment of the swans going by.

And the actors were saying, "What about us?

What do you want us to do?"

"You're fine.

We got to get that swan!"

Those kinds of things mattered to him, and the color of this versus the color of that.

Because Vincent began as a scenic designer and a costume designer and an illustrator.

He actually illustrated a book of Casanova's memoirs, and Liza has a lot of his art still in her home.

So, when she played Radio City Music Hall in 1992, she did a huge segment honoring her father.

And they projected on that huge stage, on a screen, all of his early scenic designs.

So keeping Vincent's legacy alive has always been paramount, because she has never worried about her mother's legacy.

-Another character who was so central in her life and story was Kay Thompson.

-Yes.

-Could you tell us a bit about what role she played in Liza's life in the different stages of her life?

-Yes.

Kay Thompson, if you don't know the name, you might know her in connection with having created "Eloise" -- the children's books "Eloise."

But Kay began her career as a vocal arranger in the 1930s, when she was working in San Francisco on radio.

And they didn't have enough budget for a big orchestra, so she started getting singers to sing all these vocal parts.

And she invented a modern style of vocal harmony that literally changed the face of that genre in the 20th Century.

And in the 1940s, Kay went to MGM and started working at Metro as a vocal coach and an arranger for Judy Garland, among others.

And she and Judy became very, very close, so Kay was present when Liza was born and was a very strong part of her early years, when Judy was still at Metro.

But, then, when Garland left Metro in 1950, Liza kind of lost track of Kay until many, many years later, when they lived in the same apartment building in New York at 300 East 57th, and then reconnected with Kay at her mother's when her mother died.

When Judy died in 1969, Kay, whom Liza hadn't spoken to in quite some time, called her and took charge of everything, helped her with the funeral arrangements and helped her get through.

And, then, they stayed very closely bonded, not only as a mother/daughter sort of relationship, but, also, Kay was writing special material and advising Liza on everything from -- And Kay introduced Liza to Halston.

-Brown-Cáceres: Oh, wow.

-So Kay was one of the most important people in Liza's life, and she's one of those people who helped Liza create her persona.

-Wonderful.

So, there's I think a method to creating a set for a show.

-Oh, boy.

-And Liza of course -- you know, you're hearing all about her creative process throughout this book.

What is her approach to creating a set for a show?

Because it seems like she's not just trying to put on some entertainment with a good arc.

She's really trying to connect at an individual, human-to-human level with folks, even if she can't see them because of the lights.

But it's from my impression she was hugely successful with that.

And so I'd love to hear from your perspective what was her vision for building a show, and how did that play out in terms of the flow and the energy and the pacing?

-She is remarkable that way, because she does think about all the different aspects of what a song represents.

And you can mention any song -- "I Remember You" -- and she'll say, "Oh.

That's a story about this couple who met in 1942 in Georgia."

And she has an entire story for every song that she sings.

So when she puts a program together, she has a through line in her mind that connects the dots emotionally from one piece to another piece to another.

So it's not just a collection of songs, but there is an arc that is much deeper that nobody will ever know except her, because she learned that what we carry inside and what we think about and feel changes the way we interpret a song.

And even though it is hard to see an audience when the lights are bright, she can see.

And I tell you that because when she was on Broadway the last time, doing I think it was "Minnelli on Minnelli," she spotted me in the fourth row.

-Brown-Cáceres: Oh, my gosh.

-And because I've been to so many of her shows and people would stand up and stand up, you know, for so many times, so I was kind of sitting there.

And she finished the number.

Everyone's standing up.

And she looked at me, and she said... [ Laughter ] She was mad as hell.

[ Laughter ] She said, "Why didn't you stand up?!"

I said, "I'm sorry.

I..." [ Laughter ] -Brown-Cáceres: That's amazing.

-So she can sing.

-Brown-Cáceres: Yeah.

Very good.

Record corrected.

Wonderful.

Well, we're just about to have to switch to audience Q&A.

But in closing the portion of the interview, I would love for you to channel your dear friends for us in this moment and share with us what she would say to an aspiring artist who might be in one of those weak moments where you feel like everything is against you and you might not be able to push forward and accomplish your goals.

She lived through that, and she has always risen from that.

And this is a normal cycle of life as a creative or as any other kind of professional.

What would Liza tell all of us, and especially a young creative, how to rise through that moment?

-I believe that Liza would say that we all have fear.

We all have doubts.

And she still carries that vulnerability, which is part of her success, because she's learned to use that.

And she would tell people to do the work, to be prepared, to know your craft, and, also, to believe in yourself, to follow that inner voice that tells you that what you are doing is the way that you must express in life, how you must express yourself in life.

Because in spite of all of the challenges and all the fears and all the things that she went through with dealing with her mom and her addiction, she learned to believe in herself.

When she was onstage with her mother in 1964, famously, her mother was with her daughter, and it was Mama and Liza and that sort of thing.

And, then, Liza said she turned into Judy Garland onstage, where she became competitive.

And Liza said, "I made a decision at that moment that I was never, ever going to be intimidated by anybody onstage ever again."

And it is trusting that you can do it and carrying that confidence and saying, "Yes, I can do that."

And I think that is one of the great keys, that we have to love ourselves enough and believe in ourselves enough to be able to share what we know we were meant to give.

-Wonderful.

Well, please -- [ Applause ] Thank you, of course, for that.

Thanks, everyone.

On behalf of all of us, I hope you can let Liza know that we are so grateful for her journey, which continues, and for all that she has given to us and will give to generations that follow us, and especially for the vulnerability that she had to embrace, to tell her story in this way.

And I know that you had a huge deal in making that possible in the way that that resulted in New York Times bestseller that I think is one of the best artist memoirs I've ever read.

So thank you, Michael, for your efforts there.

-Thank you.

-Yeah.

[ Applause ] -Thank you.

-Thank you, all.

So if you would like to ask a question, we're gonna invite you to come up to the microphones on either side.

We have a few minutes, and we're gonna alternate from one side to the other.

And we're gonna start with our friend here on this side.

-Woman: Thank you.

Michael, I have thoroughly enjoyed this book.

You write like she's -- Like, it is so amazing to hear.

I felt she was somebody that became my personal friend throughout it.

-I love that.

-Woman: You so downplay though, how much you mean to her.

And I couldn't put it down, and I could not get over -- I'm gonna cry -- the moment that you saved her life by singing to her.

And I wanted really for you to be able to share what that was like for you.

-I knew -- Thank you.

Thank you for your kind words.

I knew that music was a way in to reach her.

And I knew that even though she was incredibly ill and nonverbal, that if I could sing and if she would respond to that, she would be okay.

And it brought her back.

And it was singing Gershwin that evoked those memories.

In that moment, everything shifted, and it changed something in her.

And it went from the belief that she might pass to believing she's still got it and she's gonna come back.

And she did.

-Woman: Thank you for doing that.

[ Applause ] -Brown-Cáceres: Thank you.

Over here.

-Man: I would like to ask if you think that the Great American Songbook is frozen in time or if you think that it is in some way expanding based on things that are happening now.

And if it is expanding, please tell us what's going on.

[ Laughter ] -If only I knew what's going on.

[ Laughter ] I believe that absolutely the Great American Songbook is expanding, because I think that it's open-ended, songs that have been created for one generation that have transcended that time and are known collectively to millions of people enter the canon of the Great American Songbook.

They become "standards," because they've outlasted or outlived the period in which they were created.

Because songs are ephemeral.

They're created for the moment.

But if there is a song that is written now that people are singing and humming 20 years from now, or 30 or 40 years, that will become part of the permanent Great American Songbook.

Just as we look back now at the songs of Billy Joel and Carole King and Neil Sedaka and Elton John, those are songs that were pop songs, but now they are part of the permanent legacy of the songbook.

So it is open-ended, and it is ever evolving.

But only time will determine what lasts.

We don't know, but I believe that there are songs being written today that will last.

You said frozen -- Well, you know, "Let It Go."

[ Laughter ] We will never let it go.

That's all I'm gonna say about that.

[ Laughter ] Let it go!

[ Laughter ] -Brown-Cáceres: Very good.

-Thank you.

-Woman: Thank you so much.

I actually have a question on a similar note, for you about you.

I think it's incredible that you've got this connection to, you know, kind of the beginning of great American theater with the work that you did for Ira Gershwin.

I'd love to hear your thoughts if you kind of think of, you know, the American theater work from almost 100 years ago up until today.

I'd love for you to share your thoughts on what you've seen as, like, the shift and changes in American theater over that time.

Because you do have that incredible bridge and connection, you know, from then to now.

Thank you.

-You're welcome.

All art reflects what's happening in society.

And a hundred years ago, musicals were largely frothy and wasn't about telling a deep story.

It was purely about entertainment.

And when a producer created a show, he would sometimes say, "We've got Fred and Adele Astaire."

That was the first element.

"Oh, well, who can we get to write songs for it?

Let's get the Gershwins."

Then, the last thing they would do is write a book -- you know, put the plot together.

And there were musical revues which were a pastiche, like the "Ziegfeld Follies" or the "George White's Scandals."

So it was pure entertainment.

And now of course, since "Showboat" being one of the first milestone musicals in 1927, "Oklahoma," we have evolved to having shows that address sociological issues and what's happening in the world, just as "Of Thee I Sing," the first musical to win a Pulitzer Prize, was groundbreaking, because it humorously commented on what was happening in politics and is I think ready for revival.

[ Laughter and applause ] So I think the biggest thing is the honesty and the immediacy that has come into theater on a level that was certainly not possible 100 years ago.

-Thank you.

This side.

-Woman: Thank you.

Kind of leading off of that, also, your album "Pure Imagination" was the soundtrack to my childhood, so thank you.

-Oh, you're welcome.

-Woman: What would yours and Liza's -- what would you say and tell the performers, artists and storytellers of today and tomorrow?

What do you think are the important stories that need to be told?

-Oh, dear.

How much time do you have?

[ Laughter ] How much time do I have?

I think that anything that unifies humanity is essential today, because we live in a time where everybody is separated in so many ways.

With technology, we are separated.

And it is the arts that brings back the common bond of humanity, where we all see that we are all the same.

So the most important part to me is expressing something that people can relate to, so that they see that we are all the same.

That's why Liza has always been so successful, because she thinks about, "What is this woman who gets up and has to take her kids to school and is scrounging for money to make ends meet?"

She puts herself in that mind-set, and she realized early on that she was no different from that person.

And that is the key to communicating through art.

So it is always finding the common bond.

If somebody is up there for their own ego, it will not last.

But when something is written from that divine place of recognizing the unity that we all share, that's when it lasts.

[ Applause ] -Woman: Thank you for coming, Michael.

I love the book, and I love you, and I love Liza.

Can you comment on the fact that Liza did not get the Broadway role in "Cabaret," but went on to play the role in the movie?

-Yes.

One of the reasons Liza did not get the Broadway role is because they wanted to cast somebody who was not a great singer and dancer, because Sally Bowles was not supposed to be super talented.

She was supposed to be limited in her ability.

And Liza was too talented.

And so the movie is a cheat in that sense, in that Sally Bowles really shouldn't be that talented.

And so that's the reason that she didn't get the part.

And Jill Haworth, who did do the part, perhaps not unsurprisingly, did not go on to have a bigger career.

She fulfilled the promise of her Broadway debut.

[ Laughter ] -Brown-Cáceres: Hilarious.

[ Laughter ] -Woman: Hi.

Just like you're talking a lot about legacy and especially community in theater for young theater people, for young creatives, what would you say are your words of advice for where we're going, like, in the future?

Especially like you mentioned social media, everyone's so distant.

Everyone's so, like, solitary and isolated.

What would you say your advice would be for finding community and keeping that legacy of theater going forward?

-For me, live music is so important.

To find ways to connect with people in live-performance situations is so different from the virtual world, which is essential, of course.

But when we are in a live situation, there is the energetic exchange and the acoustic sound of music that is unique unto itself.

And to me, I encourage people to make as much live music and have real human connections as possible and not to only rely on technology, just as now most people of I would guess your generation know music through the Internet and listen to it in compressed sound.

So many people have never heard the full breadth of a symphony orchestra or even a recording that was made.

If they listen to it on a device, it is compressed.

So they're not even experiencing the full glory of what is possible.

So finding ways to get back to the human element is essential now, especially as technology and AI keep coming and insinuating themselves.

The human experience is the most important part to me and connecting with the earth, connecting with nature, feeling the world, feeling the planet, because that gives us inspiration and the reminder that we are all part of something greater than just technology.

-Woman: Thank you.

-You're welcome.

[ Applause ] -This will be our last question.

-Oh.

-And, then, others, please plan to go down to the book signing straight away after this, and you'll be able to talk with Michael.

-Woman: Oh, I hope it's gonna be a good question.

[ Laughter ] -Me too.

No pressure.

-Woman: No pressure.

Michael, I've been a fan since the early '80s and your cabaret days.

-Thank you.

I actually have a photograph of you on Fifth Avenue in about '82, when I was working at the big banks there, but -- -Oh, my goodness.

-Woman: Maybe one day I'll dig it up.

-Was it a deposit or a withdrawal?

[ Laughter ] Sorry.

Go ahead.

-Woman: No, that's fine.

I hope this is a good question to ask.

I was curious about Liza's relationship with on one side Sid and Lorna Luft and separately Peter Allen, who I adored.

-Yes.

Liza and Lorna are very close now.

Being sisters, they had their periods where they were not so close, but now they are extremely close, and they cling to each other and are very firmly in each other's lives.

Liza's relationship with Sid Luft was not always pleasant.

Sid was a very difficult and litigious man who did nefarious things to her mother, and she was never able to forgive him for the things that he did that led to, in Liza's belief, her demise.

So that's a tough one.

Peter Allen is somebody she deeply loved to the end.

In some ways was one of the most important people in her life.

They carried a musical bond that she still treasures.

And when Peter was getting ready to check out, she was there for him, because he needed her.

And she has never gotten over that passing.

-Brown-Cáceres: Thank you.

One bit of housekeeping and then one final, short question.

We're gonna go -- -Housekeeping.

I forgot my broom.

-Oh!

[ Laughter ] -Go ahead.

-Cynthia Erivo might have a broom later.

-Oh.

[ Laughter ] -We can't talk to her about that film.

So, if you would like to meet Michael downstairs, he will be signing for a brief period directly after the program, so please head directly down to the signing area.

And he will be in signing line 19.

Feel free to verify that on the way.

It could have changed.

But it said 19 when I checked.

And Michael's signing will be not the full hour, so please do plan to go directly there from this program.

Now, the last thing, which I absolutely adored about Liza and about you, as I learned in the book, tell us Liza's approach to humor as medicine.

Because it seems like it's helped her get through some really tough times, and I know we could all use that reminder in our lives.

-Oh.

Well, she learned that from her mother.

Her mother had a supreme sense of humor, and she always knew that no matter how bad things were with her mom, if she could make her laugh, everything was gonna be okay.

And I've seen Liza in desperate situations where she will find humor in it.

And so it is something that she taught me.

She's taught me to lighten up.

And in connection with that, before she goes onstage, most performers are like this.

She has people in the dressing room telling jokes and laughing and just being light and mirthful, because that's the energy she wants to carry onstage.

And God is she funny.

I mean, she says the funniest things.

One day, we were out to dinner, and she brought home filet mignon, and she gave it to her dog, and the dog chowed down.

And she said, "You know, he's gonna wake up one day and say, 'You know, one day, I had a hell of a meal.

What happened to that?'"

[ Laughter ] So she's always looking at things from this quirky place, and that has sustained her.

And thank goodness it has been something I've inherited.

-Brown-Cáceres: Wonderful.

Well, thank you, Michael, for telling Liza's story for us.

-You're welcome.

Thank you.

-We really appreciate it.

[ Applause ]