♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA F. OUR GUEST TODAY IS ESTEEMED AND BELOVED NEW MEXICO AUTHOR MICHAEL MCGARRITY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>MICHAEL: MY PLEASURE TO BE BACK WITH YOU AGAIN.

>>LORENE: IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR WRITING SO MANY BOOKS, BECAUSE I GET TO INTERVIEW YOU, I GET TO READ THEM, AND I GET TO INTERVIEW THEM.

>>MICHAEL: I WRITE THE BOOKS SO THAT YOU CAN INTERVIEW ME, LORENE.

>>LORENE: ME AND HOW MANY MILLION OTHER PEOPLE JUST DEVOUR YOUR BOOKS AS SOON AS THEY COME OUT.

WELL KNOWN AUTHOR WORLDWIDE, HOW MANY LANGUAGES HAVE YOUR WORKS BEEN TRANSLATED INTO, 26 OR SOMETHING?

>>MICHAEL: NOT THAT MANY, A FEW.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU HAVE 14 BOOKS AND THEY ARE CRIME SERIES THAT ARE SET IN NEW MEXICO, EXCEPT FOR THE LAST ONE.

WE'RE HERE SPEAKING ABOUT YOUR NEW BOOK CALLED NIGHT IN THE CITY, WHICH IS A DRAMATIC DEPARTURE FROM YOUR REGULAR WORKS.

>>MICHAEL: IT REALLY IS.

>>LORENE: LET ME MENTION YOUR FIRST BOOK, I LOVE THIS COVER.

IT'S CALLED TULAROSA AND THIS WAS PUBLISHED IN 1996.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S RIGHT, IT'S STILL IN PRINT IN THE HARDBACK.

>>LORENE: AND IT'S STILL SELLING BECAUSE ONCE PEOPLE READ ONE OF YOUR BOOKS, YOU'VE GOT THEM FOR LIFE.

THEN YOU WROTE THIS VERY FAMOUS TRILOGY, IT'S THE KIND OF STORY OF THE KERNEY FAMILY.

>>MICHAEL: IT'S REALLY A PREQUEL TO THE SERIES.

>>LORENE: THE FIRST ONE IS HARD COUNTRY , THE SECOND ONE IS BACKLANDS, AND THE THIRD ONE IS THE LAST RANCH .

AND ALTHOUGH IT'S A STORY OF THIS FAMILY, THE KEVIN KERNEY FAMILY, IN THE TULAROSA BASIN, IT'S THE HISTORY OF RANCHING IN NEW MEXICO.

IT'S EXTRAORDINARY, IT'S EXTRAORDINARY HOW YOU PUT SO MUCH INTO EVERYTHING, IT'S JUST AMAZING.

ANOTHER NOVEL LET'S JUST SHOW IT, THE LONG AGO .

THIS IS THE ONE BEFORE THE LATEST ONE, RIGHT?

>>MICHAEL: RIGHT.

IT'S REALLY A SPIN-OFF OF THE SERIES.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

IS IT A PREQUEL KIND OF?

>>MICHAEL: NO, NO, A SPIN-OFF.

>>LORENE: A SPIN-OFF.

>>MICHAEL: INSOFAR AS IT'S THE STORY I WANTED TO WRITE ABOUT MY PROTAGONIST'S WIFE'S FAMILY.

IT CONNECTS TO THE 14 KERNEY CRIME NOVELS IN THAT WAY, SO IT WASN'T REALLY A TOTAL STANDALONE, LIKE NIGHT IN THE CITY IS.

>>LORENE: THERE ARE 14 BOOKS IN THE KEVIN KERNEY SERIES, AND THEN YOU STOPPED THEM.

>>MICHAEL: I DID.

WELL, ACTUALLY, I TOOK A BREAK AND I DID THE TRILOGY.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>MICHAEL: SO THEN WHEN I WAS FINISHED WITH THE TRILOGY, I WENT BACK TO THE KERNEY SERIES AND I DID TWO FINAL BOOKS IN THAT SERIES.

I DID RESIDUE AND HEAD WOUNDS .

HEAD WOUNDS ENDED THE SERIES, IT'S REALLY MORE A STORY ABOUT KERNEY'S SON AND HIS FAMILY AND KERNEY'S RETIREMENT AS A POLICE OFFICER.

BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW THROUGHOUT THE SERIES MY CHARACTERS AGED, THEY DIDN'T STAY STATIC.

>>LORENE: IT'S TRUE, YOU CAN'T HAVE 115-YEAR-OLD DETECTIVE HERO.

>>MICHAEL: YOU CAN IGNORE IT IF YOU WANT TO, BUT I AGED MY CHARACTERS DELIBERATELY IN THE SERIES, AND SO WHEN I ENDED IT, I ENDED IT ON A NOTE THAT LEFT IT OPEN FOR ME IF I WISHED TO CONTINUE ON WITH HIS SON, CLAYTON, THE HALF APACHE POLICE OFFICER IN MESCALERO.

BUT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, LORENE, AND I SAID, NO, YOU'VE DONE THIS, NOW WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO NEXT, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT'S DIFFERENT?

SO IN THE LONG AGO, A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SETTING, MONTANA AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, NORTHERN CALIFORNIA AND VIETNAM IN THE 60S, IN THE EARLY 60S, RIGHT?

WHICH WAS A TOTAL DEPARTURE EVEN THOUGH IT WAS STILL SET IN THE WEST.

SO THAT WAS DONE, THEN OKAY, WHAT'S NEXT.

WELL, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN FASCINATED BY NOIR, BOTH FILM AND LITERATURE.

>>LORENE: CAN YOU EXPLAIN, I'M FASCINATED WITH NOIR AND I HAVE THREE PAGES HERE, BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN, DO YOU WANT ME TO READ THE DEFINITION?

>>MICHAEL: SURE.

>>LORENE: OKAY.

IT'S A FILM NOIR BECAUSE THERE'S NOVELS, NOIR, FICTION, NOIR FICTION, AND THERE'S NEON NOIR FICTION AND NEW NOIR FICTION, BUT IN FILM, FILM NOIR IS A FRENCH STYLE OF HOLLYWOOD CRIME DRAMAS THAT EMPHASIZES CYNICAL ATTITUDES AND MOTIVATIONS.

THEY'VE GOT USUALLY A BLACK AND WHITE STYLE, WHICH MAKES EVEN THE DARK LOOK DARKER, BECAUSE THESE ARE DARK NOIRS, DARK.

THE ATTITUDES EXPRESSED DERIVE FROM THE HARD-BOILED SCHOOL OF CRIME FICTION, AND THE HEROES ARE USUALLY UP AND COMING, HAVING TO EARN RESPECT.

SOME OF THE OTHER FILMS THAT WERE NOIR, THE MALTESE FALCON , AND JOHN HUSTON, KEY LARGO , THE ASPHALT JUNGLE , ALFRED HITCHCOCK, SOME OF HIS THRILLERS ARE NOIR, SHADOW OF A DOUBT , NOTORIOUS , STRANGERS ON A TRAIN.

HUSTON DID THE MALTESE FALCON.

>> MICHAEL : ACTUALLY FILM NOIR, LORENE, STARTED RIGHT AFTER THE END OF WORLD WAR II AND THE CLASSIC ERA FOR IT WAS LIKE FROM 1946 TO 1958.

LITERATURE NOIR EARLIER THAN THAT, DASHIELL HAMMETT, FOR EXAMPLE AND THEN YOU GET INTO THE RAYMOND CHANDLER, PHILIP MARLOWE KIND OF CHARACTERS, WHICH WERE MADE FAMOUS BY HUMPHREY BOGART.

SO WHAT I TRIED TO DO WAS PUT MY STORY RIGHT SORT OF AT THE TAIL END OF THAT CLASSICAL PERIOD THAT'S DEFINED AS NOIR, BOTH IN FILM AND LITERATURE, AND I WAS ABLE TO DO IT.

NOW THE JOKE IS, I MAKE ON MYSELF, IS MANY TIMES THE PROTAGONIST IN THOSE STORIES IS CYNICAL, WORLD-WEARY, NOT REALLY TOTALLY MORALLY STAND UP KIND OF GUY, AND HARD-BOILED.

I CREATED A CHARACTER IN SAM, MY PROTAGONIST, THAT I CALL PARBOILED BECAUSE HE'S GOT A HEART, HE'S BASICALLY A GOOD GUY, HE'S DAMAGED, BUT HE'S NOT COMPLETELY CYNICAL.

HE'S A LITTLE BIT OVER THE TOP IN TERMS OF BEING IMPULSIVE AND DOING THINGS ON THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT.

SO HE'S A PARBOILED PROTAGONIST.

I DUMPED THEM IN THE MIDDLE OF MANHATTAN IN 1956 AND I DID SOMETHING ELSE IN THIS BOOK THAT I'VE NEVER DONE BEFORE, I HAVE ONE POINT OF VIEW THROUGHOUT THE STORY.

IT'S SAM AND SAM ALONE THAT TELLS THE STORY, NO OTHER CHARACTER STEPS UP UNTIL THE DENOUEMENT, EXCEPT SAM.

AND THAT TO ME WAS RISKY BECAUSE I HAD ALWAYS WRITTEN THESE BOOKS THAT WERE BASED ON ENSEMBLE CHARACTERS.

PEOPLE THAT I COULD USE IN A VARIETY OF SETTINGS, THEY COULD COME, THEY COULD GO.

IF I DIDN'T LIKE THEM, I COULD KILL THEM, IF I DID LIKE THEM, I COULD BRING THEM BACK.

>>LORENE: SO YOU CONTROLLED THE NARRATIVE, BUT IN THIS, THE NARRATOR CONTROLS IT ALL.

>>MICHAEL: SO THAT WAS MY FIRST CHALLENGE, COULD I DO THAT?

AND OF COURSE, THE SECOND CHALLENGE, COULD I PULL OFF NOIR IN MANHATTAN IN THE MID-50S AND PEOPLE SAY, WELL, HOW COULD YOU DO THAT?

WELL, IT'S QUITE SIMPLE, I WAS A COUNTRY BOY WHO WAS DUMPED IN THE MIDDLE OF MANHATTAN IN 1954, AND I HAD NEVER LIVED IN THE CITY BEFORE, I LIVED THERE FOR FOUR YEARS.

SO I'M ABLE TO PULL FROM MY OWN PERSONAL MEMORY AND EXPERIENCE WHAT MANHATTAN WAS LIKE IN 1956.

AND SO BEING ABLE TO DO THAT AND BEING ABLE TO HAVE A SINGLE VOICE THROUGHOUT THE STORY WAS REALLY A TOTAL WONDERFUL SORT OF ADVENTURE FOR ME AND IT BROKE NEW GROUND AND IT KEPT ME MOTIVATED AND KEPT ME WONDERING WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY OR DO OR HAVE HIM SAY OR DO NEXT.

SO IT REALLY WORKED OUT THAT WAY.

>>LORENE: BUT YOUR LAW ENFORCEMENT CHARACTERS IN, WELL, FIRST OF ALL YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND IN, YOU HAVE A DEGREE IN ENGLISH AND PSYCHOLOGY, A MASTER'S IN CLINICAL SOCIAL WORK, YOU'RE A GRADUATE OF THE NEW MEXICO LAW ENFORCEMENT ACADEMY, AND YOU WERE AN INVESTIGATOR WITH THE NEW MEXICO PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE.

WE HAVE A LITTLE OVER CROSS, BECAUSE AFTER THE RIOT AT THE PENITENTIARY, YOU REESTABLISHED MENTAL HEALTH SERVICE FOR THE CORRECTIONS DEPARTMENT WHICH WAS VERY MUCH NEEDED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>MICHAEL: I HOPE IT'S STILL STANDING.

>>LORENE: I HOPE IT'S STILL STANDING TOO, BUT AS YOU KNOW, MY LATE HUSBAND ERNIE NEGOTIATED THE EXCHANGE OF THE GUARDS THAT WERE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY THE PRISONERS.

NOW THAT WAS A NOIR SCENARIO FOR SURE, BUT IT TURNED OUT OKAY.

AND AGAIN, THEY CHOSE HIM BECAUSE THEY TRUSTED HIM.

>>MICHAEL: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: THOSE OLD VALUES, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS WHAT THE TRADITIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT CHARACTER OR PERSONALITY REPRESENTS, STANDING FOR RIGHTEOUS AND GOOD JUSTICE TO PROTECT AND SERVE.

BUT IN AN AGE OF CORRUPTION, WHICH YOU TOUCH UPON VERY NICELY IN THIS NOVEL, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S CORRUPTION FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM OF THE POLICE.

THEN HOW THERE'S AN EXPOSE OF JEWEL HEISTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IT'S FASCINATING.

>>MICHAEL: BAD COPS, MAFIA, STREET CRIMINALS.

>>LORENE: I KNOW.

>>MICHAEL: MOBSTER KIND OF TOUGH, HEAVY GUYS, YOU KNOW, THE BAD GUYS WITH THE BIG BEEFY FISTS.

>>LORENE: THEY BEAT HIM UP ALL THE TIME.

>>MICHAEL: THERE'S THAT, AND THEN THERE'S THE ENVIRONMENT OF MANHATTAN.

AT THAT POINT, MANHATTAN WAS IN SOME WAYS NEW YORK CITY, ACTUALLY, IN SOME WAYS WAS VERY DIRTY.

THERE WAS A LOT OF POLLUTION, THERE WAS A LOT OF CRIME, THERE WAS A LOT OF INFLUX OF MINORITY PEOPLE THAT WERE CLASHING WITH THE DOMINANT CULTURE.

>>LORENE: AND A LOT OF DISCRIMINATION.

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, AND SO IT WAS A PERIOD OF UPHEAVAL, BUT IT ALSO HAD ELEMENTS OF THEATRE, DANCE, EXCITING THINGS GOING ON IN THE MEDIA, THE GROWTH OF TELEVISION.

I HAVE A SCENE IN THERE, ONE OF THE FAMOUS NEW YORK NIGHT SPOTS WHERE MY CHARACTER HAS TO GO AND IT WAS FUN TO DESCRIBE IT IN TERMS OF SOME OF THE HOLLYWOOD LUMINARIES THAT WOULD HANG OUT IN A PLACE LIKE THAT.

SO, IT WAS JUST A WONDERFUL TIME FOR ME AS A WRITER TO EXPLORE SOME NEW TERRITORY AND TRY TO BRING SOMETHING TO LIFE THAT I HAD AT LEAST SOME PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT'S SO DIFFERENT TOO FROM THE WEST AND YOUR OTHER WORK AND IT FITS MORE, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A WESTERN, A NOIR WESTERN.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THAT'S BEEN DONE.

CORMAC DID IT IN NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN .

>>LORENE: YES, YES, EXACTLY, EXACTLY.

SO YOUR BACKGROUND IN LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS HELPED YOU SO MUCH WITH YOUR CHARACTERS, BUT YOUR HERO IN THIS IS A VERY UNUSUAL CHARACTER.

HE HAS SO MUCH, AS YOU SAY, PARBOILED, DID YOU CALL HIM?

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, I CALLED HIM PARBOILED.

>>LORENE: I LOVE THAT.

AND HIS FRIEND, DJ, SHE HELPS HIM ON SOME OF THE CRIMES, AND THEY GROW TO BE VERY, VERY CLOSE.

>>MICHAEL: STARTING OUT, WE DON'T KNOW WHY SHE'S DOING IT, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHY, HE HAS NO IDEA.

I MEAN LET'S BRIEFLY PUT A SYNOPSIS OUT THERE.

HERE'S THIS YOUNG MAN, KOREAN WAR VETERAN, HIGHLY DECORATED, MOVES TO NEW YORK.

GETS A JOB AS A DEPARTMENT STORE DETECTIVE IN ONE OF THE FIFTH AVENUE SHOPS, BIG ONE AT THAT TIME.

STUDIES PART-TIME TO GET HIS LAW DEGREE AND WINDS UP BECOMING AN ADA IN THE MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

HAS THIS TORRID LOVE AFFAIR WITH THIS SOCIETY, BEAUTIFUL SOCIETY WOMAN WHOSE FAMILY BACKGROUND GOES BACK TO NEW AMSTERDAM BEFORE IT WAS EVER NEW YORK, RICH, RICH, RICH.

AND THEY BEGIN THE AFFAIR WITH ONE PROVISO THAT SHE LAYS DOWN, AND THAT'S WHEN THE AFFAIR IS OVER, THE AFFAIR IS OVER, AND SHE CALLS THE SHOTS.

THE WHOLE IDEA WAS, OKAY, HANDS OFF, EVERYTHING'S COOL, I CAN HANDLE IT.

BUT HE CAN'T HANDLE IT, SHE CAN'T HANDLE IT, SO SHE BREAKS UP WITH HIM.

LO AND BEHOLD, OUT OF THE BLUE, A YEAR OR TWO LATER, SHE CALLS ASKING FOR A RENDEZVOUS AT HER OLD HANGOUT.

WHERE HE GOES AND WAITS FOR HER, SHE DOESN'T SHOW UP, SO HE DECIDES TO INVESTIGATE, GOES TO HER PENTHOUSE APARTMENT IN THE BUILDING THAT SHE OWNS AND FINDS THAT SHE'S BEEN MURDERED, STRANGLED TO DEATH WITH EVIDENCE AROUND HER NECK THAT WOULD ALMOST INVARIABLY CONNECT TO HIM.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE IT'S HIS DOG TAGS, NAME AND SERIAL NUMBER.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S THE WHOLE KICKOFF TO THE STORY AND IT JUST GOES FROM THERE.

THERE'S SOME REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING CHARACTERS IN IT.

THERE'S A ONE-ARMED PICKPOCKET WHO RUNS HIS OWN GANG, THERE'S THIS LOVELY, LOVELY LADY OF THE NIGHT WHO MOVED TO THE CITY TO BE AN ACTRESS AND WOUND UP BECOMING A THEATRICAL MISTRESS FOR HER CLIENTS WITH A WHOLE WARDROBE OF THINGS THAT SHE COULD WEAR TO PLEASE THEM.

A BAD, BAD COP WHO HAS IT IN FOR HIM, HAS IT IN FOR SAM BECAUSE SAM FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS PLANTING EVIDENCE ON CLIENTS AND THEN CHARGING THEM WITH CRIMES, IT JUST GOES ON AND ON AND ON.

MAFIA SHOWS UP, HE FINDS HER DIARY AND LO AND BEHOLD LEARNS THAT SHE'S HAD AT LEAST 20 LOVERS AND SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT HER?

>>LORENE: SO HE'S LOOKING TO SEE WHO KILLED HER AND DISGRUNTLED EX-LOVER WOULD BE HIGH ON THE LIST.

>>MICHAEL: RIGHT, RIGHT AND MEANWHILE, HE'S THE PRIME SUSPECT AND HE'S BEING BATTERED BY THE MAFIA AND ALL OF THE OTHER TOUGHS OUT THERE ON THE STREETS.

>>LORENE: LITERALLY BATTERED, THEY BEAT HIM UP.

>>MICHAEL: SO I THINK IT'S A FUN READ, PERSONALLY.

>>LORENE: WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH MICHAEL MCGARRITY ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, NIGHT IN THE CIT.

I THINK IT'S MORE THAN A FUN READ, I JUST LOVED IT.

AND EVEN THIS, THE COVER HAS A NOIR SENSE TO IT.

>>MICHAEL: MY PUBLISHER WAS REALLY HAPPY WITH THE STORY AND THEY MADE A BIG EXTRA EFFORT TO DESIGN IT AND PROMOTE IT THE WAY THEY HAVE.

>>LORENE: IT'S VERY EVOCATIVE OF THE CONTENT, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.

>>MICHAEL: NOT ALL THE TIME.

>>LORENE: NO, NO, NO.

SO WHERE DO YOU GO FROM HERE, THIS IS A WHOLE NEW THING.

>>MICHAEL: I'M OFF ON A WHOLE NEW TREND AGAIN.

I'M NOT REALLY WILLING TO TALK ABOUT IT.

>>LORENE: NO, NEVER TALK ABOUT IT.

>>MICHAEL: IT'S INTERESTING.

IT'S MUCH DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING I'VE TRIED BEFORE.

I'M LOOKING FOR A NOVELLA RATHER THAN A FULL NOVEL OUT OF IT, SO I'M HOPING FOR SOMETHING THAT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPERIMENTAL THAN WHAT I'VE DONE IN THE PAST.

>>LORENE: WELL, THAT'LL BE INTERESTING, ALTHOUGH MANY TIMES, I THINK HEMINGWAY, I THINK WROTE A LETTER TO SOMEBODY AND SAID, I'M SORRY IT WAS SUCH A LONG LETTER BUT I DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME TO MAKE IT SHORT.

SO IF YOU JUST BLAH, BLAH, EVERYTHING THAT COMES TO MIND, YOU WRITE DOWN, BUT THEN TO EDIT IT AND HONE IT AND SHAPE IT AND PRUNE IT, THAT TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD JUST RATHER... >>MICHAEL: I'M NOT THAT WAY, I LIKE TO EDIT, I LIKE TO WRITE THINGS AS CRISPLY AND AS CLEARLY AS I CAN.

>>LORENE: YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF AWARDS AND HONORS, I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE EMBARRASSING, SO I'LL MAKE IT QUICK, THIS IS REALLY AWESOME.

THE 1980 NEW MEXICO SOCIAL WORKER OF THE YEAR, 1987 POLICE OFFICER OF THE YEAR, ARE WE SEEING A PATTERN HERE.

2004, THE NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR'S AWARD FOR EXCELLENCE IN THE ARTS, LITERATURE, THE MAYOR'S AWARD FOR EXCELLENCE IN THE ARTS, LITERATURE.

THIS IS BEAUTIFUL, IN 2015, YOU GOT THE FRANK WATERS EXEMPLARY LITERARY ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.

WELL, FRANK WATERS IS JUST ONE OF OUR FINEST NATIVE, THAT'S LIKE SAYING THE SHAKESPEARE AWARD, IT'S REALLY, REALLY UP THERE.

YOU'VE BEEN NOMINATED MANY TIMES FOR THE WESTERN WRITERS OF AMERICA SPUR AWARD FOR THE BEST WESTERN NOVEL AND YOU GOT SOMETHING CALLED AN ANTHONY AWARD FOR THIS NOVEL, TULAROSA .

CONGRATULATIONS.

>>MICHAEL: ACTUALLY, TULAROSA WAS UP FOR THREE AWARDS, IT WAS QUITE A NICE DEBUT.

>>LORENE: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT STARTED YOU WITH WRITING?

>>MICHAEL: WELL, MIMI, MY LOVELY BRIDE, SHE SAYS SHE ALWAYS KNEW I'D DO IT.

I TOOK A THREE-HOUR ELECTIVE COURSE AT UNM IN SHORT STORY WRITING, JUST FOR THE GRADE, IT WAS AN EASY GRADE.

>>LORENE: WAS IT TAUGHT BY A REAL SHORT STORY WRITER?

>>MICHAEL: NO, NO, BY AN ENGLISH PROFESSOR.

I FOUND IT INTERESTING, BUT I PUT THAT ASIDE BECAUSE THERE WERE OTHER KINDS OF WRITING I NEEDED TO DO, PROFESSIONAL WRITING.

IT ALL CAME WITH THE TERRITORY OF WHAT I WAS DOING PROFESSIONALLY, SO IT WASN'T UNTIL I WAS IN MY 40S THAT I THOUGHT I'D TAKE A SHOT TO SEE IF I COULD TELL A STORY.

I WROTE A COUPLE OF REALLY BAD MANUSCRIPTS, BUT LORENE, I'VE HAD SO MUCH FUN DOING IT, I'D TAKEN THE SUMMER OFF AND THAT WAS ALL IT WAS.

IT WAS JUST TAKING THE SUMMER OFF.

SO I HAD TO GO BACK TO WORK, BUT I THOUGHT ONE OF THE THINGS I CAN DO IS KIND OF PICK THIS UP AS SOMETHING OF MY OWN THAT I WANT TO DO ON MY FREE TIME AND SO THAT'S REALLY THE GENESIS OF HOW IT ALL STARTED.

SO I KEPT TRYING TO LEARN HOW TO WRITE AND BY WRITING AND WRITING AND WRITING, I EVENTUALLY FOUND A WAY TO BE ABLE TO TELL A STORY AND I HAD THE GOOD LUCK FINDING A YOUNG EDITOR IN NEW YORK CITY WHO BELIEVED IN ME AND THOUGHT HE COULD HELP ME GET THERE, SO HE DID, ONE THING LED TO ANOTHER AND AFTER 15 YEARS OF HARD WORK, I BECAME AN OVERNIGHT SENSATION.

>>LORENE: YEAH, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, BUT THERE'S SUCH A AN AMAZING SURPRISE, THERE'S A BIG SHIFT TOWARD THE END OF THIS NOVEL, ABSOLUTELY, I HAD TO RE-READ IT AND RE-READ IT AGAIN.

I'M JUST GOING, WHERE DID THIS COME FROM AND IT WAS MIND-BLOWING.

BUT DOES THE NOVEL KIND OF WRITE ITSELF, DO YOU HAVE AN OUTLINE BEFOREHAND OR DO YOU JUST START WRITING?

>>MICHAEL: I DON'T HAVE AN OUTLINE.

I USUALLY HAVE THREE THINGS, I HAVE A LOCATION, A WORKING TITLE, AND AN IDEA THAT KICKS OFF THE STORY.

SO IN THIS CASE, I HAD NIGHT IN THE CITY, I KNEW WHAT I WANTED TO CALL THE BOOK.

I KNEW I WAS GOING TO HAVE A PROTAGONIST THAT TOOK THE LEAD THROUGHOUT THE STORY IN SAM AND ALL I COULD THINK OF WAS THAT HE WOULD BECOME THE PRIME SUSPECT IN A MURDER AND THAT'S ALL IT TOOK TO GET IT GOING.

>>LORENE: OF COURSE, HE HAD TO DO THE INVESTIGATING TO SEE WHO REALLY DID IT, BUT HE HAD A TARGET ON HIS OWN BACK, SO HE HAD TO BE VERY SUBTLE AND VERY CAREFUL AND THEN DO DEEP PAST EXPLORATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO KNEW PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE VICTIM FROM YEARS AGO.

HE HAD TO CONSTRUCT A WHOLE EDIFICE AROUND WHAT HAPPENED WHILE STAYING OUT OF SIGHT.

>>MICHAEL: ALL OF THAT AND THEN HOOKING UP WITH THIS VERY ATTRACTIVE PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR WHO HAS HER OWN AGENDA THAT HE'S NOT QUITE SURE ABOUT.

WHY IS SHE WILLING TO HELP HIM, HE'S GOT TO FIGURE THAT OUT, THEN THE TWO OF THEM WORKING TOGETHER HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED IN HIS EX-LOVER'S CHILDHOOD PAST AND HOW THAT AFFECTED IT AND WHETHER THAT WAS THE CAUSE OF HER MURDER.

I TRIED TO WEAVE A VERY GOOD TALE AND PULL IT TOGETHER SO THAT IT ALL MADE SENSE AND EVEN MY EDITOR WAS SURPRISED WHEN SHE FINISHED READING THE DRAFT AND SAID, I HAD NO IDEA WHO THE KILLER WAS.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

BUT IT WAS VERY WELL, ALL THE CLUES WERE THERE.

ONCE CAME THAT BIG REVEAL, YOU COULD GO BACK AND SAY, OH, WELL, HERE'S I SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT, OH MY, HE DID THIS, OH, I FORGOT ABOUT THAT.

THEN SUDDENLY, AS A MATTER OF FACT, I LOVE IT WHEN A BOOK WITH A REVEAL MAKES ME WANT TO GO BACK AND SEE HOW CAREFULLY, STRATEGICALLY, YOU LAID OUT ALL THESE CLUES.

AND I CHASTISE MYSELF FOR READING SO QUICKLY TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT I DEPRIVED MYSELF OF THE PLEASURE.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THERE ARE READERS THAT ARE ALWAYS ON THE LOOKOUT FOR TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A PLOT.

I'M NOT THAT KIND OF READER, I DON'T THINK YOU ARE EITHER.

READ IT FOR THE STORY, AND THEN IF SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING, YOU EITHER BUY IT OR YOU DON'T.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING WHEN YOU LOOK AT COMPARING NIGHT IN THE CITY WITH THE LONG AGO , THE LONG AGO ALSO HAS A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING WITHIN LOS ANGELES WITH THE POLICE AT THAT POINT IN THE EARLY 60S.

ONE EDITOR, A FRIEND OF MINE SAID, YOU KNOW, LA COPS IN THE 60S WERE DIRTY, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT IN THE BOOK.

I SAID, NO, I DON'T HAVE THAT IN THE BOOK, BUT WHAT I HAVE IN THE BOOK IS ONE LA COP WHO'S DIFFERENT FROM ALL THE REST AND WHO PLAYS A HUGE PART IN HELPING THE YOUNG MAN FIND THE ANSWER TO HIS QUESTION AS TO WHERE HIS MISSING SISTER WAS.

SO LAPD IN THE 60S, NYPD IN THE 50S, IT'S KIND OF A COROLLARY THERE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

SO WHEN YOU GO LOOKING FOR NOIR, WHEN YOU'RE CREATING, I MEAN, NOW THAT YOU LOOK BACK AT THESE, ARE THEY NOIR-ABLE?

>>MICHAEL: NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE THE WESTERN ETHIC AND VALUES ARE SO CLEAR IN THESE WONDERFUL... >>MICHAEL: THEY ARE.

EVEN IF THERE ARE SHADY CHARACTERS OR BAD MEN OR OUTLAWS OR WHATEVER, NO, THE TRILOGY, THERE'S NO WAY THE TRILOGY EVEN COMES CLOSE TO NOIR.

THE LONG AGO DOES, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, NIGHT IN THE CITY DOES, CERTAINLY.

NO, THERE'S NO WAY OF BACKING INTO IT, SO TO SPEAK.

>>LORENE: WILL YOU BE, WELL, WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL MCGARRITY, I WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS WONDERFUL NEW BOOK CALLED NIGHT IN THE CITY .

BUT ARE YOU GOING TO FOLLOW DOWN THIS PATHWAY MORE?

>>MICHAEL: NO, I'M NOT.

>>LORENE: IT'S ONE AND DONE, ONE NOIR.

>>MICHAEL: IT'S A STAND-ALONE AND WHAT I'M DOING NOW IS SOMETHING EVEN MORE DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING I'VE TRIED BEFORE.

THE QUESTION FOR ME IS PUSHING THE BOUNDARY.

I CAN DO THINGS WELL, I WANT TO DO THEM BETTER ALL THE TIME AND I DON'T WANT TO BE JUST LOCKED INTO ONE PARTICULAR CATEGORY OR ONE PARTICULAR GENRE.

THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY ATTITUDE, ACTUALLY I THINK IT'S MY PERSONALITY, I ALWAYS HAVE TO BE MOVING FORWARD, ALWAYS HAVE TO BE MOVING ON.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE BENEFIT AS YOU NOURISH THAT IMPULSE TO MOVE ON AND TO BETTER YOURSELF, WE ARE THE BENEFICIARIES OF IT.

I'M SO GRATEFUL FOR YOUR WRITING AND FOR YOU COMING HERE TODAY.

OUR GUEST IS MICHAEL MCGARRITY, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, NIGHT IN THE CITY , WHICH I VERY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

WELL, I WON 'T ASK YOU, YOU TELL ME WHEN YOUR NEXT BOOK IS READY, I WILL GOBBLE IT UP.

>>MICHAEL: I WILL TELL YOU, I WILL LET YOU KNOW.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>MICHAEL: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>LORENE: IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

>>MICHAEL: I THINK THIS IS THE 10TH TIME.

>>LORENE: I THINK SO, KEEP WRITING, KEEP WRITING.

HEY, I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR JOINING US FOR THIS VERY INTERESTING INTERVIEW WITH THE AUTHOR, MICHAEL MCGARRITY.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

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