REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, AND WELCOME TO AN INTRIGUING EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE , BECAUSE OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>MICHAEL: LORENE, IT IS ALWAYS AN HONOR TO BE IN YOUR PROGRAM.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU TEACH US SO MUCH, IT'S A PUBLIC SERVICE.

YOU DO SO MUCH FOR THE GOOD OF THE STATE, THE NATION AND THE WORLD, BUT WHEN YOU COME AND TEACH US ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT YOU'RE A FORMER DEA CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS, A 31 YEAR VETERAN OF THE DEA, THE MOST DECORATED, THE BEST AWARD YOU CAN GET IS THE TOP COP AWARD GIVEN BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF POLICE ORGANIZATIONS.

I MEAN, I'M LUCKY YOU WERE ABLE TO FIT ME IN, YOU'RE DOING SO MUCH FILMMAKING AND INTERVIEWS AROUND THE WORLD AND THE FUNNY THING ABOUT YOUR INTERVIEWS IS THAT IT'S THE WHOLE WORLD.

SO THERE'S NO 9 TO 5, BY THE TIME IT'S FIVE HERE, THEY'RE JUST STARTING IN EUROPE AND THEY'RE JUST STARTING IN ASIA, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU HANDLE IT VERY WELL.

TELL ME A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND, PARTICULARLY WHERE YOU WERE BORN AND WHERE YOU WENT TO SCHOOL, BECAUSE IT WAS A REALLY EXTRAORDINARY HAPPENSTANCE THAT LED YOU TO COLLEGE YOU WENT TO.

>>MICHAEL: LORENE, I WAS BORN IN ESPANOLA, NEW MEXICO, WHICH IS A VERY SMALL TOWN, AND IT WAS EVEN SMALLER WHEN I WAS GROWING UP THERE.

IT'S A TOWN WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF POVERTY, BUT THE RICHNESS COMES FROM ONE'S CULTURE, ONE'S FAMILY AND ONE'S HISTORY.

WHEN I GRADUATED FROM ESPANOLA HIGH SCHOOL, I DECIDED TO GO TO NEW MEXICO STATE UNIVERSITY, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE FEW UNIVERSITIES IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAD A FOUR YEAR DEGREE IN CRIMINOLOGY, POLICE SCIENCE AND THAT WAS PROBABLY THE BEST DECISION I EVER MADE.

>>LORENE: YES, INDEED.

AND AFTER YOU GOT DONE WITH SCHOOL, TELL ME ABOUT HOW YOU ENDED UP WORKING FOR THE DEA AND ALSO IN FOREIGN SERVICE TO SOME DEGREE, RIGHT?

>>MICHAEL: YES.

I DECIDED TO GO WITH THE DEA.

>>LORENE: OKAY, JUST TELL EVERYONE, DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.

>>MICHAEL: I DECIDED TO GO WITH THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAD A MANDATE TO WORK BOTH DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN.

CIA ONLY HAD A MANDATE TO WORK FOREIGN, FBI ONLY WORKING DOMESTIC AND THEN WHAT REALLY INTERESTED ME WAS WORKING UNDERCOVER, BECAUSE THAT TO ME WAS THE ULTIMATE GAME OF CAT AND MOUSE.

>>LORENE: SO I CANNOT IMAGINE, SINCE I'M PRETTY TRANSPARENT, THE DANGER AND THE DEMANDS OF WORKING UNDERCOVER.

I'VE SPOKEN WITH YOU BEFORE, AND YOU SAY THAT IT'S AN ADRENALINE RUSH, YOU HAVE TO BE ON, YOU CANNOT SLIP UP.

AND SO YOU'RE IN A HEIGHTENED STATE OF BEING WHEN YOU DO IT, I WOULD, HOWEVER, NOT BE IN THAT STATE.

BUT YOU TELL US SOME OF THE STORIES THAT CAME UP WHEN YOU WERE UNDERCOVER.

THERE'S PARTICULARLY A STORY THAT HAS INTRIGUED ME ABOUT THAT HELICOPTER OF YOU CAPTURED THE BAD GUY, BUT TELL ME SOME OF YOUR UNDERCOVER STORIES.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THE STORY WAS IN COLOMBIA WHERE WE CAPTURED A MEMBER OF THE ARMED REVOLUTIONARY FORCES, WHICH IS A SUBVERSIVE NETWORK, THE BIGGEST ONE THAT WAS CREATED IN 1964.

SO WE PUT THIS MEMBER OF THEFARC IN THE HELICOPTER AND WE TOLD THEM AND WE WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, PLAYING THE ROLE THAT WE WERE GOING TO THROW HIM OUT OF THE HELICOPTER.

AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE WERE NOT GOING TO DO THAT, BUT THEN HE SAT BACK DOWN IN THE SEAT AND THEN DECIDED TO JUMP OUT OF THE HELICOPTER THAT WAS AT LEAST 1500 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND AND JUST TUMBLED THROUGH THE AIR AND CRASHED INTO THE EARTH.

WE WERE NEVER ABLE TO LOCATE HIS BODY BECAUSE IT WAS JUST A CANOPY OF TREES, BUT A LOT OF DRUG TRAFFICKERS, A LOT OF CRIMINALS, THEY BELIEVE IN MACHISMO, AND THEY WOULD RATHER TAKE THEIR OWN LIFE THAN GO TO PRISON AND THIS WAS ONE EXAMPLE.

THERE WERE OTHER EXAMPLES WHERE I WAS INVOLVED IN A LOT OF SHOOTOUTS.

ONE OF THEM WAS IN CABORCA, WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BAD GUYS SHOT ONE OF THE MEXICAN FEDERAL JUDICIAL POLICE OFFICERS IN THE HEAD AND I SAW BLOOD JUST SPURTING OUT OF HIS HEAD AND HE TURNS QUICKLY.

IT WAS ALL WITHIN A NANOSECOND, AND HE FIRES TWO ROUNDS AT A DISTANCE OF ABOUT THREE FEET, I COULD FEEL THE BULLETS PASS BY MY LEFT EAR, AND I RETURNED FIRE, STRIKING HIM IN THE CHEST.

HE WAS STILL ALIVE WHEN THE AMBULANCE CAME, BUT HE EXPIRED BEFORE HE EVEN GOT TO THE HOSPITAL.

>>LORENE: I LOVE THESE STORIES AND THAT'S WHY I LOVE YOUR BOOKS.

SO ONE BOOK THAT YOU'VE DONE, IT'S A MEMOIR, BUT IT'S CALLED DEAL , BUT DEA IS IN LARGE LETTERS AND THE L IS SMALL BECAUSE YOU WERE WITH THE DEA.

IT WAS, IT'S A RIVETING READ.

ANOTHER ONE, THIS IS YOUR MOST RECENT ONE, THE CAPO , TELL ME ABOUT THIS BOOK.

>>MICHAEL: THE DRUG CAPO IS A THRILLER AND A LOT OF IT IS BASED HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

IT'S ABOUT A PSYCHOPATH THAT IS BORN IN ESPANOLA TO A SINGLE MOTHER AND HE DECIDES TO JOIN A GANG AND THEN LATER FLEES ONCE HE LEARNS THAT HE'S BEEN INVITED TO MEXICO AND HE STARTS WORKING WITH THE SINALOA CARTEL AND LATER FORMS HIS OWN CARTEL.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING, ALL OF MY NOVELS ARE BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES, SO THERE'S A LOT OF REALITY THERE AND IT'S ALSO EDUCATIONAL.

A LOT OF MY BOOKS I DO DEPICT A LOT OF VIOLENCE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE DRUG TRADE IS NOTHING BUT SHEER VIOLENCE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, RIGHT, THERE'S NO TEA AND CRUMPETS THERE.

>>MICHAEL: I HAVE TO TELL YOU, LORENE, THAT THERE'S AN AUTHOR BY THE NAME OF JOHN SMITH.

HIS WIFE, SALLY DENTON, WROTE A BOOK ABOUT MORMONS, THE MORMON KILLINGS, SO HE'S WRITING A BOOK ABOUT ME CALLED A CORRIDO FOR MIKE VIGIL, A BALLAD FOR MIKE VIGIL.

SO HOPEFULLY THAT'LL BE COMING OUT SOON.

>>LORENE: THAT'S WONDERFUL, BECAUSE THERE IS LITERALLY A CORRIDO, WHICH IS A FOLK SONG AND IN A WONDERFUL TRADITION, WONDERFUL MUSIC, GREAT WORD AND IT WAS A REAL HONOR THAT A CORRIDO WAS CREATED FOR YOU.

>>MICHAEL: I THINK I'M THE ONLY ONE, A CORRIDO, WAS BASICALLY COMPOSED AND SANG IN MEXICO, IT'S A VERY POPULAR SONG.

THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ACCOLADES THAT I'VE RECEIVED AND I'VE RECEIVED ACCOLADES FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>>LORENE: YOU SURE HAVE.

>>MICHAEL: BUT, YOU KNOW, A SONG IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE A SONG, YOU KNOW, HAS A LASTING QUALITY TO IT.

>>LORENE: BUT IT ALSO CREATES, CONVEYS, EMOTION, THE MUSIC AND THE WORDS TOGETHER CREATE AN EMOTIONAL STATE.

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT.

>>LORENE: AND YOU CAN'T I MEAN, THE BOOKS ARE WONDERFUL, I LOVE BOOKS, BUT HOW YOU FEEL WHEN YOU'RE HEARING THAT SONG, THAT'S SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S TRUE.

THE ONLY PROBLEM IS, LORENE, THAT THAT TYPE OF MUSIC, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY INSPIRES YOU TO HAVE A SHOT OF TEQUILA.

>>LORENE: OH NO, OH WELL, SO THERE MIGHT BE SOME HAZARDS WITH THAT.

>>MICHAEL: EXACTLY.

>>LORENE: SO SOME OF YOUR OTHER BOOKS, THERE'S ONE CALLED THE CLAW OF THE DRAGON , THE RISE OF THE SICARIO , WHICH IS ABOUT HITMEN.

AND THEN YOU HAVE SO MANY, THERE'S SO MUCH ABOUT THE CARTELS HERE.

SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANT YOU TO TALK ABOUT THE CARTELS AND I UNDERSTAND NOW FROM KNOWING YOU, THESE ARE GANGS, DRUG GANGS, BUT WITH INCREDIBLE POWER AND A VERY STRICT VALUE SYSTEM, WHICH MERCY IS PROBABLY NOT, LOYALTY IS A VIRTUE, PROBABLY MERCY AND COMPASSION ARE NOT PART OF THEIR EMOTIONAL MAKEUP.

BUT SO, WELL, TELL ME, TELL ME ABOUT WHAT ELSE YOU'VE BEEN WRITING AND THEN I WANT TO GET TO YOUR TRIP TO ROMANIA, BECAUSE THAT WAS GREAT.

>>MICHAEL: I AM WRITING A BOOK AND IT'S CALLED URSULA CHILD SOLDIER AND THERE IS A LOT OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD WHERE THEY KIDNAP CHILDREN OR THEY RECRUIT CHILDREN TO WORK AND PLAY A ROLE IN A LOT OF THESE SUBVERSIVE ORGANIZATIONS.

IN COLOMBIA, THERE'S SUBVERSIVE NETWORK CALLED THE NATIONAL LIBERATION ARMY AND IN THIS BOOK, THEY KIDNAP A VERY YOUNG GIRL AT A VERY EARLY AGE, AND SHE IS A VERY INTELLIGENT GIRL THAT STARTS TO RISE THROUGH THE RANKS OF THE NATIONAL LIBERATION ARMY.

SO I'M HALFWAY THROUGH THE BOOK, I SHOULD HAVE FINISHED IT BY NOW, BUT I'M SO ENGAGED IN MULTIPLE PROJECTS.

>>LORENE: THEY'RE MAKING A MOVIE ABOUT YOU.

EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WANTS TO INTERVIEW AT ALL TIMES OF DAY AND NIGHT AND ALSO YOU ARE NOW DOING A WONDERFUL VISIONARY AND PROACTIVE THING.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR TRIP TO ROMANIA, WHERE YOU WENT TO DEVELOP COUNTER-DRUG POLICY.

NOW, IF ONLY WE HAD DONE THAT SOME TIME AGO, BUT YOU ADDRESS THE ROMANIAN PARLIAMENT, WHICH IS APPARENTLY THE SECOND BIGGEST BUREAUCRATIC BUILDING AFTER THE PENTAGON.

AND SO YOU'VE BEEN ADDRESSING STUDENT GROUPS, DOING INTERVIEWS AROUND THE WORLD, AND THEY'RE EVEN MAKING A MOVIE ABOUT YOU.

SO AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR FILLING US IN, OH YOU HAD A LONG INTERVIEW, WHO PLAYED IT IN FULL, WAS IT THE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO, YOU HAD A 15 MINUTE INTERVIEW ALL ABOUT... >>MICHAEL: YEAH, I WENT TO ROMANIA BECAUSE THE COUNTRY, A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, WANTED TO HIRE ME TO DEVELOP A COUNTER DRUG STRATEGY FOR THE COUNTRY BECAUSE THEY WERE BASICALLY A TRANSSHIPMENT COUNTRY, BUT NOW A LOT OF THOSE DRUGS, LORENE, ARE STAYING IN ROMANIA.

THEY'RE STARTING TO ENCOUNTER A DRUG PROBLEM AND THE PORT OF CONSTANTA IS THE PRIMARY PORT OF ENTRY FOR A LOT OF THE DRUGS COMING IN.

>>LORENE: AND THAT'S IN THE BLACK SEA, RIGHT?

>>MICHAEL: THAT IS THE BIGGEST PORT ON THE BLACK SEA, IT'S THE 17TH LARGEST PORT IN EUROPE.

SO I WENT AND I WENT TO BUCHAREST INITIALLY AND I WENT TO THE PARLIAMENT BUILDING, IT'S A BUILDING THAT IS THE SECOND LARGEST ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING IN THE WORLD, SECOND ONLY TO THE PENTAGON.

AND IT WAS BUILT BY NICOLAE CEAUESCU, YOU KNOW DICTATOR OF ROMANIA.

BUT I TALKED TO THE PARLIAMENT FOR OVER AN HOUR AND AS I WAS LEAVING SOMEBODY, ONE OF THE PARLIAMENTARY MEMBERS YELLED OUT, YOU ROCK AND I HAD TO CHUCKLE AS I WAS LEAVING.

THEN FROM THERE I WENT TO BRASOV I MET WITH A LOT OF THE MINISTERS, I ACTUALLY ENDORSED ONE OF THE MINISTERS WHO RECENTLY WON HIS ELECTION.

I MET WITH CIOLACU, THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF ROMANIA.

THEN I WENT TOFOCSANI AND THEY WANTED ME TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, PARENTS, STUDENTS, POLITICIANS, TEACHERS, ALL OF THESE.

AND THEY HAD ABOUT 700 PEOPLE THERE.

SO I TALKED TO THEM, THEY WERE INTERESTED, THEY ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

AND THEN AFTER I FINISHED, EVERYBODY WANTED TO TAKE A PICTURE WITH ME, SO I WAS THERE LIKE 4 HOURS TAKING A PHOTOGRAPH WITH ALL OF THEM, BUT SUPER NICE PEOPLE.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH MICHAEL S. VIGIL, AND WE'LL STICK WITH THE INTERNATIONAL, ALSO RECENTLY CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT OF MEXICO, FIRST FEMALE AND OF JEWISH HERITAGE.

SO HOW IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT MEXICO'S DRUG POLICY, BECAUSE WE ARE HAND-IN-GLOVE WITH THEM.

YOU KNOW, WHAT MEXICO DOES AFFECTS US VERY MUCH.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM IS A VERY INTELLIGENT WOMAN.

YOU KNOW, SHE STUDIED PHYSICS, THAT WAS HER UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE AND THEN SHE GOT HER MASTERS AND PHD IN ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING.

SHE STUDIED AT THE LAWRENCE BERKELEY NATIONAL LABORATORY.

>>LORENE: LAWRENCE LIVERMORE LAB.

>>MICHAEL: SO SHE CAN SPEAK ENGLISH, WHEN SHE WON THE ELECTION, JOE BIDEN, THE PRESIDENT CALLED HER TO CONGRATULATE HER.

AND SHE TOLD HER TRANSLATOR SHE WOULD TALK TO HIM PERSONALLY, SHE SPEAKS VERY GOOD ENGLISH.

SHE WAS THE MAYOR OF MEXICO CITY, DID A GREAT JOB DURING THE COVID PANDEMIC.

SO SHE'S AN ACADEMIC, SHE'S A SCIENTIST, SHE'S A POLITICIAN.

I THINK SHE'LL DO A GREAT JOB AS PRESIDENT, THE ONLY THING THAT WORRIES ME IS THAT IF SHE FOLLOWS THE SAME TACTIC AS ANDR�S MANUEL L�PEZ OBRADOR, THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF MEXICO, HUGS AND NOT GUNSHOTS, THAT IS NOT GOING TO BODE WELL FOR MEXICO OR THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO TRANSLATE TO MORE DRUGS COMING HERE AND MORE VIOLENCE IN MEXICO.

>>LORENE: WELL, GIVEN HER INTELLECTUAL BACKGROUND, SHE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FORMULATE HER OWN UNIQUE, TIMELY POLICY FOR THIS TIME, I WISH HER ALL THE BEST.

I AM DEEPLY DISTURBED ABOUT FENTANYL AND SO CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THE TRAFFICKING, WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH TRAFFICKING IN FENTANYL IN THE U.S.A, WHERE IS IT PRODUCED, I UNDERSTAND THAT PERHAPS CHINA IS SENDING PRECURSOR CHEMICALS TO MEXICO AND IT'S BEING MADE IN MEXICO.

AND HOW IS IF IT'S THE NUMBER ONE DRUG KILLING OUR YOUTH IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, ALBUQUERQUE JUST PUT UP A BIG BILLBOARD WITH THE PICTURES OF ALL THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO OVERDOSED ON FENTANYL, PROBABLY NOT KNOWING THE DANGERS.

BUT SO HOW CAN WE GET A PUBLIC EDUCATION PROGRAM GOING SO THAT PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A DOWNHILL SLIDE AND THEY SAY THAT SO MANY OTHER DRUGS NOW, STREET DRUGS ARE CONTAMINATED WITH FENTANYL, SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, ONE OF THE THING IS THAT THE CARTELS ARE STARTING TO MOVE AWAY FROM PLANT-BASED DRUGS, LIKE THE OPIUM POPPIES THAT PRODUCE HEROIN, MARIJUANA.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY CAN BE DESTROYED, AND THEY HAVE TO WAIT TILL THE NEXT GROWING CYCLE.

THEY GET THE PRECURSOR CHEMICALS FROM CHINA.

BUT NOW INDIA IS STARTING TO COME INTO THE PICTURE BECAUSE THEY ALSO PRODUCE THE SAME PRECURSOR CHEMICALS.

THEY GOING INTO MEXICO INTO SEVERAL OF THE SEA PORTS, FROM THERE, IT GOES INTO THE HANDS OF THE CARTELS AND IT'S VERY EASY TO MAKE.

THEY USE A METAL TUB AND USE A STICK OR A SHOVEL TO MIX THE CHEMICALS AND THEY CONVERT IT INTO A POWDER FORM AND THEY USE TABULATING MACHINES TO MAKE THEM APPEAR LIKE THEY'RE OXYCODONE OR A REGULAR PHARMACEUTICAL DRUG LIKE YOU SAID, THEY ALSO MIX OTHER DRUGS LIKE HEROIN, MARIJUANA.

COCAINE AND METHAMPHETAMINE WITH FENTANYL.

SO THE USER DOES NOT KNOW THAT THEY'RE CONSUMING FENTANYL.

AND DURING THE COURSE OF THE LAST THREE YEARS, WE'VE LOST OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES TO DRUG OVERDOSE EVERY YEAR FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS.

AND ABOUT 70% OF THOSE ARE AS A RESULT OF FENTANYL, WHICH IS THE BIGGEST DRUG CRISES THAT WE HAVE ENCOUNTERED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND AS YOU INDICATED, WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN AND THAT'S WHY I HAVE ALWAYS ADVOCATED TO CREATING A CURRICULUM AT ALL LEVELS OF SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, ELEMENTARY, JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL, WHERE WE BASICALLY HAMMER THAT INTO THE SOULS OF OUR CHILDREN, BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT OCCURS NOW, BECAUSE THEY HAVE A HEALTH CARE SPECIALIST AS THE POLICE OFFICER THAT WILL GO TO A SCHOOL AND SAY DON'T USE DRUGS.

BUT THEY ONLY DO IT ONCE A YEAR.

>>LORENE: WELL, NOT ONLY THAT, WHEN NANCY REAGAN, HER WAY OF FIGHTING DRUGS WAS JUST SAY NO, THAT IS A REALLY INEFFECTIVE STRATEGY TO FIGHT THE DRUG WARS.

>>MICHAEL: THERE'S GOT TO BE A LOT MORE AND IT'S BECOME VERY COMPLICATED.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THE CHILDREN NOW HAVE DISPOSABLE INCOME, THEY CAN BUY THESE DRUGS AND WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB WITH TREATMENT FACILITIES.

WE NEED MORE OF THEM BECAUSE A NORMAL DRUG ADDICT IS NOT GOING TO DRIVE 100 MILES TO GET TO A TREATMENT FACILITY.

AND THEN THERE HAS TO BE FOLLOW UP.

YOU KNOW, IT JUST CAN'T DETOXIFY HIM AND THEN LET HIM PUT HIM BACK TO WHERE THEY GOT ADDICTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

WE ALSO NEED TO PROVIDE NARCAN, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS LIKE A SPRAY AND THAT REVERSES OPIOID OVERDOSES TO INCLUDE FENTANYL, WHICH IS A SYNTHETIC OPIOID.

>>LORENE: BUT ALAS, THE CREATIVE UNDERGROUND DRUG WORLD HAS COME UP WITH SOMETHING WHERE THE FENTANYL IS MIXED WITH TRANQ, I THINK IT'S CALLED AN ANIMAL TRANQUILIZER.

AND THE NARCAN WON'T WORK ON THAT.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S TRUE.

RIGHT NOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS REMIXING IT WITH XYLAZINE, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S AN ANIMAL TRANQUILIZER AND THE THING IS THAT IT'S VERY DEADLY, THEY CALL IT ZOMBIE DRUG, BECAUSE IT CAUSES NECROSIS OF THE SKIN, IT ROTS THE SKIN AND THAT LEADS TO AMPUTATIONS.

AND IF YOU SEE THESE INDIVIDUALS AT THE EPICENTER, WHICH IS PHILADELPHIA, THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, LAYING IN THE STREETS, THEY'VE GOT BANDAGES AROUND THEIR ARMS, ITS THAT DEADLY DRUG COMBINED WITH ANOTHER DEADLY DRUG.

AND IF YOU USE XYLAZINE WITH FENTANYL, YOU STAND A BETTER CHANCE OF SURVIVAL IF YOU'RE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH A FULLY LOADED GUN.

>>LORENE: AND THEY DID HAVE A PR CAMPAIGN WITH AMPHETAMINES AND METHEDRINE WAS THE SCOURGE OF THE YOUTH, AND THEY WOULD HAVE A PICTURE OF A YOUNG GIRL AT 16.

AND THEN SIX MONTHS LATER, AFTER SHE'D BEEN DOING METHEDRINE, IT AFFECTED HER TEETH AND HER CIRCULATION AND EVERYTHING.

SO WOMEN WOULD SEE THAT AND SAY, MAYBE NOT, MAYBE NOT, BUT NOW WE AND THAT'S A REALLY MANIPULATIVE CHEAP TRICK, BUT IT WORKED AT THAT TIME.

BUT NOW IT'S GOTTEN SO BIG AND SO HORRIFIC, ZOMBIE, THAT'S ENOUGH TO DISSUADE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY LISTENING.

HOW DO WE GET THEIR ATTENTION?

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO EDUCATE THEM IN SCHOOL.

WE JUST CAN'T DO THINGS HAPHAZARD AND UNFORTUNATELY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WE ARE A VERY REACTIVE COUNTRY.

WE NEED TO BE MORE PROACTIVE IN MANY AREAS TO INCLUDE COMBATING DRUG ABUSE AND DRUG TRAFFICKING.

THE OTHER THING ALSO IS THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE TEST STRIPS TO DRUG ADDICTS SO THAT THEY CAN TEST THEIR DRUG OF CHOICE AND MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAVE FENTANYL.

SO THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE AND I THINK THAT OUR POLITICIANS REALLY NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB BECAUSE THEY COME TO THE COMMUNITIES AND THEY TALK ABOUT THE DRUG PROBLEM, BUT THEY OFFER NO SOLUTIONS.

SO BEING A LEADER MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE CRITICAL THINKING AND YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP STRATEGIES AND APPROPRIATE STRATEGIES AND REALLY IT DOESN'T TAKE THAT MUCH, ALL IT TAKES IS A LITTLE BIT OF IMAGINATION.

>>LORENE: THE OTHER THING I THINK WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO GO BACK TO THE DAYS OF A DRUG CZAR FOR OUR SIDE, YOU KNOW, FOR THE GOVERNMENT, EVERY NEW GOVERNOR AND ADMINISTRATION CHANGES THE POLICY.

IF THEY HAD LIKE A DRUG CZAR THAT BRIDGED THE GAP FROM ONE ADMINISTRATION TO THE NEXT TO BE SURE THAT THE SAME POLICIES WERE BEING CONTRIBUTED TO AND FOLLOWED UP ON, THEN THE NEXT GOVERNOR OR PRESIDENT COULD APPOINT, YOU KNOW, MID-TERM, A NEW DRUG CZAR TO BE SURE THAT THAT'S GOING BECAUSE AMERICA IS CALLED THE UNITED STATES OF AMNESIA.

AND WE HAVE A VERY SHORT ATTENTION SPAN AND WE HAVE TO PUT OUR FULL MENTAL, YOU KNOW, OUR WARRIOR WOMAN, TO FIGHT THIS BECAUSE IT'S THE TOLL IS JUST SO HORRIFYING, SO EDUCATION.

>>MICHAEL: ABSOLUTELY.

LORENE, AND THE THING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AN INWARD FOCUS BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, IN COUNTRIES LIKE MEXICO, CHINA AND WHAT HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, WILL HAVE AN ADMINISTRATION THAT IS WILLING TO WORK WITH THE UNITED STATES, BUT THEN THE ADMINISTRATION CHANGES AND THEN WE GO BACK TEN PACES FROM WHERE WE WERE, SO WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB INTERNALLY AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO ELECT PEOPLE TO DIFFERENT POSITIONS THAT HAVE CRITICAL THINKING, THAT ARE ABLE TO STRATEGIZE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM THINK THAT JUST BY TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEM, THAT THAT'S THE SOLUTION, WELL, IT'S NOT.

>>LORENE: NO, NO, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU COME BACK AND DO A WHOLE PROGRAM ABOUT THE CARTELS, WHERE THEY GET THEIR POWER AND INFLUENCE AND THEY'RE BRANCHING INTO THE AVOCADO TRADE AND THE LIME BUSINESS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE IT BOGGLES THE MIND, BUT THEY WILL GO WHERE THERE'S A PROFIT.

SO EDUCATION IS ONE THING AND THEN HOW DO WE OVERCOME THE PUBLIC'S AVERSION TO SEE UNPLEASANT THINGS?

THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE, IN THEIR PRIME, GORGEOUS YOUNG PEOPLE, VITAL, THE CREAM OF OUR CULTURE, AND THEY'RE BEING SLAIN BY THESE DRUGS, PARTICULARLY FENTANYL.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, I THINK THAT A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, A COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, BECOMES VERY CALLOUS AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

WHEN I WAS IN COLOMBIA, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE DRUG CARTELS WILL KILL PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY SPOKE OUT AGAINST DRUG TRAFFICKING AND I REMEMBER LEAVING MY HOUSE IN MEDELLIN, COLOMBIA, AND THEY WERE BODIES STREWN ON THE ROAD, STREWN ON THE ROAD.

AND I WOULD COME BACK IN THE EVENING, THE BODIES WERE STILL THERE BECAUSE THE AUTHORITIES DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO GO OVER THERE AND PICK UP ALL THE BODIES THAT WERE THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND PEOPLE WOULD JUST WALK OVER THE CADAVERS LIKE THEY WERE A TREE TRUNK.

AND THEY BECAME SO DESENSITIZED TO MISERY, TO DEATH, TO VIOLENCE AND THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR ANY COUNTRY.

>>LORENE: WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, WE RAN OUT OF TIME.

I HATE TO LEAVE IT ON THAT NOTE, BUT I'M SO ENCOURAGED AT YOUR MESSAGE OF AWARENESS AND PUBLIC EDUCATION AND ALSO EVEN A PROGRAM LIKE THIS WILL GET PEOPLE TO LISTEN WHEN THEY'RE HEARING THINGS ABOUT FENTANYL AND TO REALLY LOOK AT THE SUPPLY CHAIN AND WHO PROFITS AND WHO LOSES BECAUSE IT'S OUR FAMILIES AND OUR YOUTH THAT LOSE SO MUCH.

>>MICHAEL: ABSOLUTELY AND AS I'VE ALWAYS SAID, I OFFER MY SERVICES TO NEW MEXICO.

IT'S MY HOME STATE, I WOULD LOVE TO GIVE BACK, SO ANYTHING THAT I CAN DO, I WOULD BE MORE THAN WILLING TO DO IT.

>>LORENE: AND YOU REALLY ARE THE PERFECT PERSON WITH YOUR INTERNATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND ALL YOUR DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENCY WORK.

SO I'M HOPING THAT WE'LL SORT OF WAKE UP AND REALIZE IT'S TIME TO HAVE A STRUCTURE TO FIGHT THIS.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING AND SPENDING TIME WITH US.

>>MICHAEL: THANK YOU, LORENE.

AS I'VE ALWAYS SAID, YOU ARE A TREASURE IN SO MANY WAYS AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING PUBLIC AWARENESS TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT'S MY PLEASURE.

IT'S A SAD TOPIC, BUT KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT, ABSOLUTELY.

>>LORENE: AND I'M LORENE MILLS, AND I HOPE YOU'VE GOTTEN SOME KNOWLEDGE FROM THIS.

IT'S A VERY TRICKY AND DANGEROUS TOPIC, BUT I WANT TO THANK YOU.

I'M LORENE MILLS, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM