♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION.

TAOS, NM HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA F. WE HAVE ONE OF MY FAVORITE GUESTS TODAY, OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL, WELCOME BACK.

>>MICHAEL: THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE, IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE ON YOUR PROGRAM, LOVE IT.

>>LORENE: YOU ALWAYS GIVE US SUCH A FABULOUS PERSPECTIVE.

YOU'RE THE FORMER CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS FOR THE DEA, THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION, YOU'RE A HIGHLY DECORATED AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR NUMEROUS MULTINATIONAL OPERATIONS, HOW MANY NATIONS WERE INVOLVED IN THE BIGGEST?

>>MICHAEL: I'VE DONE SEVERAL OF THEM, THE LARGEST ONE INVOLVED 36 COUNTRIES.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.

>>MICHAEL: INVOLVING MEXICO, THE SEVEN CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES, THE NATIONS IN THE CARIBBEAN AND ALL THE SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES.

>>LORENE: WOW.

>>MICHAEL: AND THEN I DID ONE, YOU KNOW, IN THE REGION OF AFGHANISTAN AND THAT INVOLVED TWENTY FIVE COUNTRIES, INCLUDING CHINA AND RUSSIA.

>>LORENE: WOW, WOW.

WELL, THAT'S WHY I NEED YOUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT YOU ARE ALSO AN AUTHOR, AND THIS IS ONE OF YOUR BOOKS CALLED DEA FOR DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION .

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT.

>>LORENE: L, DEAL.

THIS IS A WONDERFUL, THESE BOOKS ARE SO EXCITING.

ANOTHER ONE THAT YOU HAVE IS CALLED THE CLAW OF THE DRAGON .

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT.

>>LORENE: AND YOU JUST BROUGHT ME YOUR NEW ONE, URSULA, CHILD SOLDIER .

WHAT DO YOU SAY THERE ARE, WHAT, 10,000 CHILD SOLDIERS?

>>MICHAEL: THERE'S OVER 100,000 CHILD SOLDIERS IN THE WORLD AND THEY ARE KIDNAPPED OR RECRUITED TO ENGAGE IN CONFLICT, AND MOST OF THEM ARE KILLED WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR.

IT'S REALLY TRAGIC.

>>LORENE: THEY'RE JUST KIDS, YEAH, THEY'RE CANNON FODDER.

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, OH, I'M SO SORRY.

THERE'S A LOT THAT NEEDS FIXING IN THIS WORLD AND YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF IT.

SO THERE'S SOME CURRENT EVENT, WELL, LET ME TALK ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.

YOU GRADUATED FROM, YOU'RE FROM ESPANOLA.

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT.

>>LORENE: AND YOU GRADUATED FROM NMSU WITH A DEGREE IN CRIMINOLOGY, WHICH IS JUST FASCINATING TO ME AND THEN WHERE DID YOU GO AFTER THAT?

>>MICHAEL: WELL, I ENTERED THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION, MY FIRST POST OF DUTY WAS ALBUQUERQUE.

I WORKED DOMESTICALLY IN DIFFERENT AREAS, BUT I DID A LOT OF WORK IN MEXICO, I WAS ASSIGNED TO MEXICO FOR THIRTEEN YEARS, COLOMBIA FOR ABOUT THREE AND A HALF YEARS, AND THEN AS CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS, I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE OFFICES WORLDWIDE.

SO I WOULD TRAVEL AND DEVELOP STRATEGIES IN MANY OF THESE COUNTRIES, AND I WAS BLESSED BECAUSE I HAD REALLY GREAT COUNTERPARTS TO WORK WITH.

>>LORENE: YEAH AND WHAT WAS IT, ROMANIA ASK YOU TO COME IN AND HELP THEM SET UP A PROGRAM, THEY DIDN'T HAVE A DRUG PROGRAM, BUT THEY ASKED YOU TO COME AND SET IT UP BECAUSE THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE A COUNTRY THROUGH WHICH THINGS WERE BEING LAUNDERED.

>>MICHAEL: YEAH, I WAS CONTRACTED BY THE ROMANIAN GOVERNMENT ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

I WENT THERE TO DEVELOP A COUNTER-DRUG STRATEGY FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING THAT THEY HAD ME DOING, THEY HAD ME SPEAKING TO CHILDREN.

YOU KNOW, I WAS MEETING WITH A LOT OF THE COUNTRY'S LEADERS, SO I WAS NOT GETTING A LOT OF REST AND THEN I WAS HAVING TO DO INTERVIEWS THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT IN LATIN AMERICA.

SO I WAS REALLY, REALLY EXHAUSTED WHEN I CAME BACK.

>>LORENE: AND YOUR INTERVIEW SCHEDULE IS KILLER BECAUSE ALL THESE PLACES ARE IN DIFFERENT TIME ZONES, SO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM YOU HAVE TO BE THERE ON THE ZOOM OR IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA AT 5 A.M.

AND SO, I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU DO AND I HOPE THAT YOU CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON WHAT'S GOING ON NOW.

THERE ARE TWO MAIN ISSUES I WANT YOU TO ADDRESS FOR US.

>>MICHAEL: SURE.

>>LORENE: WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH VENEZUELA, WE'VE NOW SENT AMERICA'S LARGEST AIRCRAFT CARRIER, THE USS GERALD FORD, INTO THE WATERS OF VENEZUELA AND THE OTHER THING IS, WE HAVE BEEN BOMBING BOATS IN THE CARIBBEAN, CLAIMING THAT THEY'RE TERRORISTS OR DRUG TRAFFICKERS, BUT WITHOUT CHECKING, WITHOUT PULLING UP ALONGSIDE, THE RIGHT WAY WOULD BE, IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THESE BOATS ARE DOING, THEY ARE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, YOU COULD COME UP NEXT TO THEM, YOU COULD BOARD, YOU COULD CHECK FOR CONTRABAND, GOLD BULLION, DRUGS, WHATEVER, AND SEE, YOU KNOW, SEE IF THEY HAVE PAPERS FOR WHO THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING.

BUT TO BOMB THEM, HOW MANY HAVE THERE BEEN, ELEVEN BOATS THAT WE BOMBED.

>>MICHAEL: TWENTY.

>>LORENE: TWENTY WITHOUT EVEN CHECKING IT OUT, BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS, OH, THEY'RE TERRORISTS OR THEY'RE DRUG DEALERS.

AND THAT'S AGAINST ALL INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND YET, OUR OWN PAM BONDI, OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL, SAID THAT, THE PRESIDENT HAD THE RIGHT TO DECLARE IT A WAR ON THE TERRORISTS.

AND NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT, WE HAD NO KING'S DAY FOR A REASON, I GUESS THE MESSAGE DIDN'T REACH.

BUT ANYWAY, SO TELL ME, FIRST LET'S TALK ABOUT VENEZUELA, WHY ARE THEY TARGETED, WHAT'S GOING ON?

>>MICHAEL: WELL, WITH VENEZUELA, THEY HAD ELECTIONS ABOUT A YEAR AGO AND THE ONE THAT WON THE ELECTIONS WAS AN OPPOSITIONAL PARTY MEMBER BY THE NAME OF EDMUNDO GONZALEZ.

HOWEVER, NICOLÁS MADURO, WHO'S THE CURRENT DICTATOR, THROUGH FRAUD, STAYED IN POWER AND HE STAYED IN POWER BECAUSE HE CONTROLS THE MILITARY.

NOW, THERE'S WHAT THEY CALL THE CARTEL DE LOS SOLES AND THEY CALL THEM CARTEL OF THE SUNS BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM ARE MILITARY GENERALS, HERE THE GENERALS WEAR STARS, IN VENEZUELA, THEY WEAR THESE SYMBOLS THAT LOOK LIKE SUNS.

BUT IT'S NOT A CARTEL, IT'S REALLY A LOOSE ORGANIZATION OF MILITARY PERSONNEL AND POLITICAL FIGURES THAT ARE ENGAGED IN DRUG TRAFFICKING.

MADURO, THE CURRENT DICTATOR, WAS INDICTED ALONG WITH THE 14 ASSOCIATES WHO ARE ALSO IN THE MILITARY OR ARE POLITICIANS IN 2020 ON DRUG TRAFFICKING CHARGES.

SO DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN SENDING AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES, MILITARY RESOURCES, NAVAL SHIPS, HE HAS LIKE F-35 FIGHTERS, A LOT OF THE AIRCRAFT ARE BASED IN PUERTO RICO.

SO HE'S THREATENING TO INVADE VENEZUELA, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN EASY TASK.

YOU'LL RECALL IN 1989, THE UNITED STATES WENT INTO PANAMA AND THEY ARRESTED MANUEL NORIEGA, THE PANAMANIAN LEADER, BUT PANAMA AT THAT TIME ONLY HAD 38,000 SOLDIERS AND POLICE OFFICERS, NICOLÁS MADURO HAS 350,000 SOLDIERS AND RESERVISTS.

NOW, DONALD TRUMP ALSO SAID THAT HE WAS SENDING THE CIA, YOU KNOW, LIKE MAYBE TO DO A POTENTIAL ASSASSINATION.

HE DOESN'T REALIZE THAT NICOLÁS MADURO'S PRESIDENTIAL GUARD, THE PEOPLE THAT PROTECT HIM, CONSIST OF 2,000 SOLDIERS, SO CIA IS NEVER EVEN GOING TO GET CLOSE TO HIM.

NICOLÁS MADURO IS ALSO SUPPORTED BY IRAN, BY CHINA, AND BY RUSSIA.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>MICHAEL: THEY HAVE A VERY ROBUST AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM, THEY HAVE THE S-300 MISSILE SYSTEMS, THAT ARE RUSSIAN-MADE, THEY HAVE A DISTANCE CAPABILITY OF ABOUT 93 MILES.

THEY ALSO HAVE AN ALTITUDE CAPACITY OF 19 MILES.

THEY ALSO HAVE THESE IGLA-S PORTABLE MISSILES, ALSO PROVIDED BY THE RUSSIANS.

SO, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN EASY TASK.

IF THE UNITED STATES GOES INTO VENEZUELA, IT'S GOING TO TURN INTO A VIETNAM, IT'S GOING TO BE A PROLONGED WAR.

>>LORENE: WELL, ALSO, THERE ARE SOME GEOGRAPHICAL PROTECTIONS THAT VENEZUELA HAS ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER WITH COLOMBIA, THEY HAVE THE VERY DENSE, HIGH-ALTITUDE FORESTS, IT'S VERY HARD TO PENETRATE, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MOVE AN ARMY THROUGH THAT.

AND THEN ON ONE OF THE OTHER SIDES, THEY'RE ALSO PROTECTED GEOGRAPHICALLY AND SO, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WOULD BE FOOLISH, IT WOULD BE, AS YOU SAID, IT WOULD DESTABILIZE THE AREA AND IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL.

>>MICHAEL: AND HERE'S THE ISSUE ALSO THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT THERE'S AT LEAST 10,000 AMERICANS THAT LIVE IN VENEZUELA, SO IF TRUMP WERE TO INVADE THE COUNTRY, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE AMERICANS THAT ARE CURRENTLY RESIDING IN THAT COUNTRY.

THERE'S A LOT OF SOUTH AMERICAN AND CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES THAT WILL COME TO THE AID OF VENEZUELA, SO WHAT TRUMP IS DOING IS HE'S FOLLOWING A POLICY WHERE HE'S PUSHING A LOT OF THESE COUNTRIES INTO THE HANDS OF THE CHINESE.

AND THAT'S THE LAST THING THAT WE WANT IS A MAJOR ADVERSARY OPERATING IN OUR BACKYARD.

>>LORENE: AN ADVERSARY THAT'S ALLIED WITH OUR ENEMIES, IT'S A COALITION OF OUR ENEMIES, AND WE'D BE CRAZY, JUST CRAZY, TO INVITE IT.

ALSO, TELL ME WHAT'S WRONG, THE PRESIDENT JUST CAN'T SAY WE'RE CALLING THESE PEOPLE TERRORISTS AND WE'RE GOING TO GO AFTER THEM AND HIT MEN IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY, BUT WITH THE PRESIDENT HAVING SO MANY LAYERS OF PROTECTION AROUND HIM.

SO, WHY NOT TRY TO, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEACE IS MADE THROUGH TRADE, THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS THAT ARE NOT WAR.

>>MICHAEL: HE WANTS TO PROJECT THE IMAGE OF A STRONG MAN.

AS YOU WELL KNOW, HE ADMIRES PUTIN, HE ADMIRES KIM JONG-UN IN NORTH KOREA.

>>LORENE: AND THE HUNGARIAN ORBAN.

>>MICHAEL: YES, VIKTOR ORBAN.

SO, HE WANTS TO BE, YOU KNOW, PLAY THIS STRONG DICTATOR TYPE.

NOW, GOING TO THE ISSUE OF THESE BOATS THAT HE'S DESTROYED, HE'S DESTROYED APPROXIMATELY 20 BOATS IN THE PACIFIC AND THE CARIBBEAN, HE HAS KILLED ABOUT 80 INDIVIDUALS.

THE FIRST STRIKE TOOK PLACE ON SEPTEMBER THE 2ND, AND THE BOAT THAT HE DESTROYED WAS CARRYING 11 PEOPLE.

HE SAID THAT THEY WERE NARCO-TERRORISTS, THAT IT WAS THE TREN DE ARAGUA.

THE TREN DE ARAGUA IS A GANG THAT WAS CREATED IN VENEZUELA AT THE TOCORAN PRISON.

>>LORENE: AT THE PRISON, TELL US WHAT WAS GOING ON THERE.

>>MICHAEL: SO THE TREN DE ARAGUA WAS FORMED IN THE TOCORAN PRISON, THEY STARTED TO USE THAT AS A BASE OF OPERATIONS.

THEY HAVE A SWIMMING POOL, THEY HAVE RESTAURANTS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A ZOO.

SO IN 2023, NICOLÁS MADURO SENT 11,000 SOLDIERS AND POLICE OFFICERS TO BASICALLY REMOVE ALL THE TREN DE ARAGUA GANG FROM THERE.

DONALD TRUMP SAYS THAT HE'S THE LEADER OF THE TREN DE ARAGUA, BUT THIS ACTION THAT HE TOOK, BASICALLY REMOVING THEM FROM THAT PRISON AND SENDING THEM TO DIFFERENT PRISONS SHOWS THAT IT IS NOT TRUE.

SO, HE SAID THAT THE FIRST BOAT ON SEPTEMBER THE 2ND WAS TREN DE ARAGUA.

WELL, THE TREN DE ARAGUA IS NOT INVOLVED IN TRANSPORTATION, THEY'RE INVOLVED IN DISTRIBUTION, THEY DON'T USE MARITIME ROUTES.

I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THESE SMUGGLING OPERATIONS, WHEN I WAS ASSIGNED TO THE COLUMBIA NORTH COAST IN BARRANQUILLA, WHEN I WAS THE AGENT IN CHARGE OF THE CARIBBEAN, AND THEN WHEN I WAS IN MEXICO, I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LARGEST INTERDICTION PROGRAM IN THE WORLD.

SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR.

SO WHAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL WAS WHEN HE SAID THAT THERE WERE 11 PEOPLE ON THAT BOAT.

THEY NEVER SENT 11 PEOPLE, THE CREW MEMBERS USUALLY CONSIST OF THREE INDIVIDUALS, SO THAT LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT, IF THEY WERE 11 OF THEM, THEY WERE PROBABLY FLEEING FROM THE MADURO REGIME.

NOW, ALL THE KILLINGS THAT HE'S DONE, IT'S A VIOLATION OF DOMESTIC LAW.

HERE, IT'S CONSIDERED MURDER, IN INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT'S CONSIDERED A WAR CRIME AND VIOLATES HUMAN RIGHTS.

HERE, WE ARE AS A NATION CRITICIZING OTHER COUNTRIES FOR VIOLATING HUMAN RIGHTS, AND WHAT ARE WE DOING, IT'S VERY HYPOCRITICAL.

SO THAT DID NOT MAKE SENSE, BUT NOW HE LABELS ALL OF THEM AS NARCO-TERRORISTS AND HE HAS PROVIDED ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE CARRYING DRUGS.

HE SAYS THEY'RE NARCO-TERRORISTS, BUT HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THEIR NAMES, WHO THEY ARE, AND THE OTHER THING THAT YOUR VIEWERS SHOULD ALSO KNOW IS THAT WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ECUADOR, COLOMBIA, VENEZUELA, AND THEN ALSO BRAZIL, THERE'S OVER A MILLION SMALL-SCALE FISHERMEN THAT LIVE ON THE NORTH COAST AND THEY GO OUT EVERY DAY FISHING.

SO I WONDER HOW MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE HE'S KILLED IN THESE ACTIONS AND THEN YOU HAVE MARCO RUBIO, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, WHO MADE A DECLARATION AND HE SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW, WE COULD HAVE INTERCEPTED THEM, BUT WE DECIDED TO KILL THEM AND DESTROY THEM," WHAT KIND OF IDIOTIC STATEMENT IS THAT?

NOW, HERE'S THE OTHER ISSUE.

>>LORENE: WAIT, BEFORE YOU GET TO THE OTHER ISSUE, I WANT TO REMIND OUR GUESTS WHO WE'RE SPEAKING WITH, BECAUSE WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH MICHAEL S. VIGIL, THE FORMER CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS FOR THE DEA, AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE TELLING US.

NOW, TELL US ABOUT MARCO RUBIO'S FOLLY.

>>MICHAEL: SO MARCO RUBIO INDICATED THAT THEY HAD THE ABILITY TO INTERCEPT THESE BOATS, WHICH THEY DO, BUT THEY DECIDED TO KILL THEM AND DESTROY THE SMALL BOATS.

THESE ARE VERY SMALL BOATS, THEY'RE VERY INEXPENSIVE AND IN THE PAST, AND YOU HIT IT ON THE NAIL, LORENE, BECAUSE WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD COORDINATE WITH A U.S.

COAST GUARD.

COAST GUARD WOULD INTERCEPT THESE BOATS, THEY WOULD STOP THEM, IF THEY DIDN'T STOP, THEY WOULD FIRE ROUNDS IN FRONT OR IN THE BACK, IF THEY STILL DIDN'T STOP, THEY WOULD SHOOT OUT THE OUTBOARD MOTORS WITHOUT KILLING ANYBODY.

THIS WAS VERY REASONABLE BECAUSE THEN IF THEY FOUND DRUGS, THEY WOULD TAKE THE CREW MEMBERS INTO CUSTODY, THEN DEA WOULD COME IN AND INTERROGATE THEM AND OPEN UP NEW AVENUES OF INVESTIGATION.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY, YOU KNOW, YOU'D MAKE A DEAL WITH THE BOAT PEOPLE YOU CAPTURED TO TELL WHO WAS THEIR BOSS AND WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE OPERATION.

>>MICHAEL: SO IT LED TO, YOU KNOW, FURTHER INVESTIGATIONS, BECAUSE EVEN IF THESE PEOPLE WERE CARRYING DRUGS, THEY'RE LOW-LEVEL PEOPLE.

THEY PAY THEM ABOUT $3,000.

AND THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN AN EXTREME POVERTY, SO THIS THING JUST LITERALLY KILLING THEM IS REALLY NOT A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S SENDING NEGATIVE REVERBERATIONS THROUGHOUT ALL OF THE CARIBBEAN.

>>LORENE: IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING WE STAND FOR, DUE PROCESS AND NO ONE HAS EVER PRESENTED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THESE ARE TERRORISTS OR DRUG RUNNERS.

>>MICHAEL: NOTHING, ZERO.

AND THEN HERE'S THE OTHER THING, THEY SAY THAT THEY'RE TERRORISTS AND THEY USE THAT LABEL TO JUSTIFY THESE ACTIONS.

TERRORIST DESIGNATION ONLY ALLOWS FOR THREE THINGS.

ONE, IT ALLOWS THE UNITED STATES TO SEIZE BANK ACCOUNTS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, SECOND, IT SANCTIONS AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO PROVIDE MATERIAL SUPPORT, THIRD, IT ALLOWS THE UNITED STATES TO TAKE ACTION TO PREVENT THEM FROM COMING INTO THE UNITED STATES.

BUT IT ALSO VIOLATES VERY CLEARLY DELINEATED THE USE OF LETHAL FORCE AND THE USE OF ENGAGEMENT.

YOU KNOW, YOU JUST CAN'T KILL PEOPLE, THIS WOULD BE TANTAMOUNT TO A POLICE OFFICER IN SANTA FE GOING TO A STREET CORNER AND SEEING SOMEBODY THERE AND SAYING, "I THINK HE'S A DRUG TRAFFICKER" AND SHOOTING HIM IN THE HEAD, THAT'S MURDER.

AND SO WE ARE AGAIN PUSHING AWAY COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN OUR ALLIES FOR DECADES AND DECADES AND THAT IS GOING TO HAVE A DELETERIOUS IMPACT ON OUR ENTIRE NATIONAL SECURITY.

SO YOU HAVE CLAUDIA SCHEINBAUM, YOU HAVE GUSTAVO PETRO IN COLOMBIA, YOU HAVE WORLD LEADERS THAT ARE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THESE HORRIBLE ACTIONS THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN TAKING.

HE AND HEGSETH ARE LIKE LITTLE KIDS, YOU KNOW, WITH TOYS, BUT THEY'RE VERY LETHAL TOYS.

>>LORENE: BUT PART OF THE TRUMP MODUS OPERANDI IS, LIKE HE DID WITH THE WING OF THE CAPITOL, JUST TEAR IT DOWN FIRST AND THEN GET PERMISSION LATER, AND IT'S TOO LATE.

I MEAN, EVEN IF THEY'D STOPPED IT HALFWAY THROUGH THE DESTRUCTION, SOME OF IT COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED, IT'S HISTORY, THE FIRST LADIES, BUT WHAT HE DOES IS... >>MICHAEL: BUT HERE'S THE OTHER THING, LORENE, IS THAT HE LABELS LIKE SIX CARTELS IN MEXICO AS TERRORIST NETWORKS.

HE NAMES ANTIFA AS A TERRORIST NETWORK, ANTIFA IS NOT AN ORGANIZATION, IT HAS NO LEADER, IT HAS NO REVENUE, IT'S PRIMARILY IDEOLOGICAL.

>>LORENE: AND IT STANDS FOR ANTI-FASCIST.

>>MICHAEL: EXACTLY.

>>LORENE: THERE ARE SO MANY INTERNATIONAL GROUPS THAT ARE ANTI-FASCIST, IT'S CRAZY.

>>MICHAEL: AND HERE THE OTHER THING IS HE LABELS THESE CARTELS AS TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS, BUT YET THE INSURGENTS THAT HE URGED TO ATTACK OUR CAPITAL, OUR U.S.

CAPITAL, HE LABELS THEM AS PATRIOTS.

A LOT OF THEM WERE GIVEN PRISON SENTENCES, AND HE HAS BASICALLY COMMUTED THEIR SENTENCES, SO THE HYPOCRISY IS JUST STAGGERING.

BUT GETTING BACK TO THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MEXICO, IN CENTRAL AMERICA, SOUTH AMERICA, THAT MAKE THEIR LIVING FISHING, THEY'RE LUCKY IF THEY MAKE $200 A MONTH.

NOW THEY'RE AFRAID TO GO INTO THE WATERS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE BLOWN UP.

SO GUSTAVO PETRO, THE PRESIDENT OF COLOMBIA, HAS SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THESE ACTIONS AND NOW DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE'S AN ILLEGAL DRUG LEADER, BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE LINKING HIM TO THE DRUG TRADE.

COLOMBIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN OUR GREATEST PARTNER IN LATIN AMERICA, WE HAVE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THEM, WE HAVE BASICALLY DESTROYED A LOT OF CARTELS, LIKE THE CALI CARTEL, THE MEDELLIN CARTEL, IN COOPERATION WITH THEM.

AND A LOT OF COLOMBIAN NATIONAL POLICE, HUNDREDS OF THEM DIE EVERY YEAR TRYING TO STOP DRUGS FROM COMING INTO THIS COUNTRY.

SO NOW, HE'S GOING TO TAKE AWAY AID TO COLOMBIA, WHICH IS GOING TO ALLOW DRUG CARTELS AND INSURGENT GROUPS TO EXPAND THEIR TERRITORY, IT'S ALSO GOING TO ALLOW FOR MORE VIOLENCE AND THEN MORE DRUGS COMING HERE.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT, SO I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR BOOKS.

D-E-A-L , MICHAEL S. VIGIL.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S MY MEMOIR.

>>LORENE: YES, IT'S CAPTIVATING READING.

I LOVE THIS, THE CLAW OF THE DRAGON , AGAIN, A GREAT COVER.

AND THIS NEW ONE, URSULA, CHILD SOLDIER , IT BREAKS MY HEART TO THINK OF LITTLE KIDS BEING SPIES AND FIGHTING.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THIS ONE HERE IS THE NATIONAL LIBERATION ARMY, AND THEY KIDNAP A VERY YOUNG GIRL AND SHE IS CAUGHT BETWEEN EVIL, DRUG TRAFFICKING, VIOLENCE, BUT ALSO ACTS AS A BENEFACTOR TO THOSE POOR VILLAGES IN COLOMBIA AND SHE RISES TO LEAD THE ENTIRE NATIONAL LIBERATION ARMY.

>>LORENE: I CAN'T WAIT TO READ IT.

>>MICHAEL: IT'S VERY GOOD.

MY BOOKS ARE VERY VIOLENT, BUT THEY'RE INTERESTING.

>>LORENE: AND WAS THIS BASED ON A REAL PERSON OR A COMPOSITE?

>>MICHAEL: NO, MY BOOKS ARE ALL BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES.

WHEN I WAS IN COLOMBIA, THE MEDELLIN CARTEL HIRED AN INSURGENT GROUP TO KIDNAP ME.

IT WAS THE POPULAR LIBERATION ARMY AND LOUIS TAMS, THE AMBASSADOR, ORDERED THAT I CLOSE DOWN THE OFFICE IN MEDELLIN AND TAKE OVER THE ONE IN BARRANQUILLA.

>>LORENE: WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO ANOTHER SHOW ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE I'M FASCINATED AND WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME.

BUT THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR RICH AND WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES WITH US.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, LORENE, EVERY TIME YOU AND I TALK, YOU KNOW, HALF AN HOUR SEEMS LIKE HALF A MINUTE.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, JUST LIKE THAT, BUT YOU TEACH US SO MUCH, AND IT'S BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE AND, AGAIN, ALL OF YOUR WORK WITH INTERNATIONAL DEA.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU'VE DONE TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND THANK YOU FOR ENLIGHTENING PEOPLE BECAUSE I BELIEVE HEAVILY IN PUBLIC AWARENESS.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY, OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US ON THIS VERY SPECIAL EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION.

TAOS, NM ♪ MUSIC