♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA F. OUR GUEST TODAY IS THE EXTRAORDINARY MICHAEL S. VIGIL, YOU'RE THE FORMER DEA CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS AND THE 31 YEAR VETERAN OF THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION.

YOU'VE GOTTEN THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS AWARD IN POLICE WORK, THE TOP COP AWARD, YEAH, THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS AWARD IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

SO WE'RE SO LUCKY TO HAVE YOU HERE, THANK YOU FOR COMING.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE, IT'S ALWAYS MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE AND THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO IN TERMS OF PUBLIC AWARENESS.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE COMING HERE TO MAKE US VERY AWARE OF A LOT OF THINGS.

TODAY, I'D LIKE TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT CARTELS, WHAT THEY ARE, HOW THEY'VE EVOLVED AND WHERE WE CAN FIND THEM IN NEW MEXICO AND ALBUQUERQUE.

BUT ALSO, YOU'VE DONE SO MUCH WORK WITH FENTANYL AND OTHER DRUG ENFORCEMENT AND PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEMS LIKE THAT, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PROBLEMS.

SO, THINK YOU, YOU COME FROM NEW MEXICO, YOU WERE BORN IN ESPANOLA, YOU'RE A GRADUATE IN CRIMINOLOGY OF NEW MEXICO STATE UNIVERSITY.

TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN POSTS, YOU WERE A SENIOR EXECUTIVE SERVING IN THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION, YOUR AWARDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BECAUSE I KNOW IT EMBARRASSES YOU, BUT YOU HAVE A LOT TO BRAG ABOUT.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, THE THING IS THAT I WORKED IN MANY, MANY, DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN POSTS OF DUTY.

I WORKED ABROAD FOR ABOUT 18 YEARS, TREMENDOUS, HOTSPOTS IN TERMS OF THE DRUG TRADE, MEXICO, COLOMBIA.

I WORKED IN EUROPE, I WORKED IN AFGHANISTAN, I CREATED MULTINATIONAL OPERATIONS, THE LARGEST ONE BEING 36 COUNTRIES.

AND I RECEIVED A LOT OF AWARDS FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

THE GOVERNMENT OF CHINA GAVE ME THE KEY TO SHANGHAI, I'VE ALSO BEEN MADE HONORARY GENERAL BY THE GOVERNMENT OF AFGHANISTAN.

SO THERE'S MANY AWARDS.

>>LORENE: TWO OF THEM, THERE WAS A SWORD.

>>MICHAEL: AND I WAS GIVEN A SWORD BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, HIPOLITO MEJIA.

I WAS ALSO GIVEN AN OFFICER'S SWORD BY THE GOVERNMENT OF COLOMBIA.

SO THESE ARE ALL GREAT AWARDS.

>>LORENE: WHAT'S THE OTHER AWARD THAT YOU COULD NOT EXACTLY CARRY AROUND WITH YOU, SOMEONE GAVE YOU A HORSE.

>>MICHAEL: AND THEN I WENT TO ROMANIA, AND THEY GAVE ME A BEAUTIFUL HORSE.

I TOLD THEM I COULDN'T TAKE IT BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A PLACE TO PUT IT AND THEY WANTED TO FORCE ME TO TAKE THE HORSE.

I GRACIOUSLY HAD TO DECLINE, THEY UNDERSTOOD.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I REALLY RESPECT ARE THE FOREIGN COUNTERPARTS IN MANY COUNTRIES THAT GO OUT THERE AND DO A VERY DEADLY JOB, I STILL MAINTAIN CONTACT WITH MANY OF THEM.

>>LORENE: YOU WRITE ABOUT THIS IN YOUR BOOKS, AND I WISH I HAD COPIES OF THEM, AND I THINK I'VE MENTIONED THE NAME OF THEM AT LEAST, THEY WILL APPEAR BENEATH YOU.

SOME OF THEM ARE SO EXTRAORDINARY BECAUSE YOU DETAIL, IN EFFECT, WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE TO WORK UNDERCOVER WHERE THE SLIGHTEST PAUSE, THE SLIGHTEST HESITATION, THE SLIGHTEST SLIP UP, IF YOU GET THE STORY WRONG, ONCE YOU'RE DEAD, >>MICHAEL: WELL, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, YOU KNOW AND WHEN YOU'RE WORKING UNDERCOVER, IT'S NOT LIKE MAKING MOVIES WHERE YOU CAN DO RETAKES.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO SUCH A THING AS A RETAKE.

>>LORENE: WHEN THERE'S A GUN TO YOUR HEAD.

>>MICHAEL: EXACTLY.

AND APART FROM THAT, ONE MISTAKE IS GOING TO COST YOU MORE THAN AN OSCAR, IT'S GOING TO COST YOU YOUR LIFE, AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO IN A NICE WAY, BECAUSE THE CARTELS ARE VERY INHUMAN WHEN IT COMES TO TAKING PEOPLE'S LIVES.

>>LORENE: SO, I HOPE WE CAN SPEND A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE CARTELS NOW, PARTICULARLY, WHAT IS A CARTEL AND WHAT'S THE HISTORY, THE EVOLUTION OF THEM.

AND THEN THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SCHOOLS, THEY HAVE TERRORIST SCHOOLS, SO LET'S DO THE BASICS.

WHAT IS THE CARTEL, HOW HAVE THEY EVOLVED AND WHAT ARE THEY DOING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN MEXICO AND NEW MEXICO AND ALBUQUERQUE IN PARTICULAR?

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT.

WELL, THE CARTEL IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION THAT IS COMPRISED OF SEVERAL INDEPENDENT DRUG LORDS THAT COLLUDE TO BASICALLY CONTROL THE PRICES OF ILLEGAL DRUGS AND THEN ALSO CONTROL THE MARKET OF ILLEGAL DRUGS.

IN MEXICO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH NOW HAS THE MOST POWERFUL CARTELS THEY'VE INVOLVED FROM INDEPENDENT CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS TO BECOMING SUPER CARTELS, BECAUSE NOW THERE ARE TRAFFICKING IN MANY, MANY DRUGS.

IN THE OLD DAYS, IT WAS PRIMARILY HEROIN AND MARIJUANA AND THE COLOMBIAN CARTELS THAT WERE PRODUCING MOST OF THE COCAINE WERE SHIPPING IT THROUGH THE CARIBBEAN.

BUT WE WERE, YOU KNOW, CAUSING TREMENDOUS BLOWS TO THEIR OPERATION, SO THEY FOCUSED ON MEXICO BECAUSE THE MEXICAN CARTELS ALREADY HAD EXISTING PIPELINES FOR HEROIN AND MARIJUANA INTO THE UNITED STATES, CERTAIN CULTURAL FACTORS, PRIMARILY LANGUAGE CAPABILITY.

SO THEY STARTED TO WORK WITH THE MEXICAN CARTELS, CREATING AN UNHOLY ALLIANCE.

BUT NOW THEY'RE TRAFFICKING SYNTHETIC DRUGS, FENTANYL, THEY'RE TRAFFICKING METHAMPHETAMINE, THEY PENETRATED MANY INDUSTRIES IN MEXICO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE $3.5 BILLION AVOCADO INDUSTRY, THE MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR LEMON AND LIME INDUSTRY, THE BILLION-DOLLAR FISHING INDUSTRY.

THEY'RE STEALING AT LEAST $1 BILLION WORTH OF PETROLEUM FROM PEMEX PIPELINES, THEY'RE STEALING LUMBER AND THEN NOW ONE OF THE BIG MONEYMAKERS IS THE TRAFFICKING OF MIGRANTS AND THEY'RE MAKING AT LEAST $10 BILLION A YEAR, THROUGH HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

>>LORENE: SO AND THAT'S, SIMPLE MIGRANTS WHO ARE COMING HERE TO WORK WHO PAY A COYOTE CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT OTHER KIND OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING, TOO.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S CORRECT.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY DO IS THEY TAKE YOUNG GIRLS, THEY TAKE WOMEN AND THEN THEY PUT THEM INTO THE SEX TRADE.

THEY ALSO WILL TAKE SOME OF THESE MIGRANTS THAT ARE ONLY SEEKING A BETTER WAY OF LIFE AND PUT THEM INTO FORCED LABOR, YOU KNOW, WORKING ON THEIR FARMS, WORKING IN WHATEVER THEY WANT THEM TO DO.

SO IT IS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR THE MIGRANTS.

AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE MIGRANTS, THEY COME INTO THIS COUNTRY, ARE NOT CRIMINALS, THEY ARE HERE TO SEEK JOBS, A BETTER WAY OF LIFE, BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES IN THE COUNTRIES WHERE THEY LIVE IN, THEY'RE NOT SECURE, THEY'RE NOT SAFE, AND THERE'S A LOT OF CRIMINALITY, A LOT OF EXTORTION, SO THEY COME HERE JUST SEEKING TO BETTER THEIR LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THEIR FAMILIES.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, RIGHT.

SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE CARTELS WHO'S PENETRATED ALL OF THESE INDUSTRIES, ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE ANYWHERE WHERE THERE'S A PROFIT TO BE MADE, THEY WILL MOVE IN AND TRY TO TAKE OVER AND CONTROL THAT.

BUT HOW, YOU KNOW, AND I'M SURE THAT OUR FEDERAL AGENCIES AND STATE AGENCIES KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE WORKING, BUT HOW CAN THEY BE DISMANTLED?

THEY HAVE MONEY, THEY USE TERRORIST TACTICS TO CONTROL THE PEOPLE THEY'RE WORKING WITH, SO THAT SOME FARMER OR SOMEONE THAT THEY'RE WORKING WITH IS NOT GOING TO SQUEAL ON THEM BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DEAD.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S CORRECT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO DO, IT'S GOT TO BE A VERY COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY AND A LOT OF TIMES IN THE UNITED STATES, WE DON'T DEVELOP STRATEGIES AS QUICKLY AS THE DRUG TRAFFICKERS DO.

AND SOMETIMES IT'S MORE REACTIVE THAN PROACTIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE NEED TO STOP THE FLOW OF WEAPONS FROM THE UNITED STATES INTO THE HANDS OF THE CARTELS, 80 TO 90% OF THE WEAPONS THAT ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE CARTELS COME FROM THE UNITED STATES.

>>LORENE: DIDN'T YOU TELL ME AN EXTRAORDINARY FACT ABOUT HOW MANY WEAPONS ARE ACTUALLY PURCHASED IN MEXICO BY MEXICANS, THEY'RE FROM MEXICO?

>>MICHAEL: YES.

IN MEXICO THEY HAVE ONE GUN STORE AND THAT'S MANAGED BY THE MEXICAN MILITARY.

IT'S ON A MILITARY BASE CLOSE TO MEXICO CITY, THEY ONLY SELL ABOUT 6500 WEAPONS A YEAR, THEY'RE IN LOW CALIBER WEAPONS.

SO ALL OF THE MILITARY GRADE WEAPONS.

>>LORENE: AND THE ASSAULT WEAPONS.

>>MICHAEL: THAT ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE CARTELS COME FROM HERE.

APART FROM THAT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO STOP WITH THE RHETORIC OF INVADING MEXICO AND WHAT HAVE YOU, BECAUSE THAT CAUSES HUGE PROBLEMS IN TERMS OF THE COORDINATION WITH MEXICO.

WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO WORK WITH MEXICO.

THE OTHER THING THAT WE NEED TO DO IS CREATE A STRATEGY WHERE WE HAVE COUNTRIES WORKING WITH ONE ANOTHER, LIKE US, MEXICO, CENTRAL AMERICA, SOUTH AMERICA.

BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CARTELS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRANSNATIONAL CRIME, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY WORK IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT A LOT OF THESE COUNTRIES HAVE ADEQUATE LAWS, THAT THEY HAVE JUDICIAL REFORM.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE MORE OF AN INWARD FOCUS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES TO REDUCE THE CONSUMPTION OF ILLEGAL DRUGS, TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION, MORE TREATMENT FACILITIES, AND THEN THE CARTELS, AS WE'VE TALKED IN THE PAST, ARE MIXING DEADLY FENTANYL WITH ALL THE OTHER DRUGS.

SO THE DRUG ADDICTS DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THEY'RE CONSUMING FENTANYL AND TWO MILLIGRAMS OF FENTANYL CAN BE FATAL TO A NORMAL HUMAN BEING.

WE ALSO NEED TO WORK WITH CHINA AND THEN ALSO INDIA, BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE SUPPLYING THE PRECURSOR CHEMICALS TO THE MEXICAN CARTELS TO MANUFACTURE FENTANYL.

AND I GET A KICK OUT OF SOME PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THESE FENTANYL LABS AS SUPER LABS, THEY'RE NOTHING MORE THAN A METAL TUB AND THEY MIX THE PRECURSOR CHEMICALS WITH STICK OR SHOVEL.

>>LORENE: YEAH, NOT EXACTLY HIGH TECH.

>>MICHAEL: NO.

>>LORENE: SO LET'S GET, ONE OF THE BASIC THINGS IS DRUG EDUCATION, WHICH WE HAVE TO START IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

YOU KNOW, AND MUCH AS I HONOR HER LEGACY, WHEN NANCY REAGAN SAID, JUST SAY NO, THAT DOESN'T WORK IF ALL YOUR FRIENDS ARE DOING IT AND YOU'RE A VULNERABLE TEENAGER AND YOU AREN'T EXPOSED TO PBS PROGRAMS ON THE DANGER OF DRUGS, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU DO KNOW THAT ONE OF YOUR BUDDIES, OD'D, SO YOU WANT TO TRY TO BE A LITTLE CAREFUL.

BUT, WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHY A PUSHER, A DEALER WOULD MAKE IT SO EASY FOR THEIR OWN CLIENTS, PATIENTS, FRIENDS TO OVERDOSE.

>>MICHAEL: THE THING IS THAT THEY REALLY DON'T CARE, THE THING IS THAT PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK ME, WELL, YOU KNOW, THESE CARTELS ARE KILLING OFF THEIR CLIENTS.

WELL, NOT REALLY, BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CONVEYOR BELT, BECAUSE WE HAVE ABOUT 3 MILLION BIRTHS IN THE UNITED STATES EVERY YEAR, SO THERE'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE A CONVEYOR BELT FOR THEM.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH MICHAEL S. VIGIL, WHO'S A FORMER DEA CHIEF OF INTERNATIONAL OPERATIONS, TOP COP, ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL THINGS EDUCATING US ABOUT CARTELS AND FENTANYL AND THE FENTANYL EPIDEMIC AND DRUGS.

SO WE HEAR THAT THE IMPACT IN NEW MEXICO IS HUGE FROM THE CARTELS, PARTICULARLY COMING IN AT THE BORDER AT EL PASO, LAS CRUCES, THAT WHOLE AREA, COME UP THE RIO GRANDE CORRIDOR, AND THEN ALBUQUERQUE IS FAT CITY FOR THEM.

>>MICHAEL: IT IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MAJOR ROADWAYS, WE HAVE TWO INTERNATIONAL AIRPORTS, ALBUQUERQUE, LAS CRUCES, AND A LOT OF IT COMES IN FROM ARIZONA, FROM CALIFORNIA.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE A COMMON BORDER WITH MEXICO, WHICH CONSISTS OF 180 MILES.

AND WE HAVE THREE PORTS OF ENTRY THERE, THE BIGGEST AND MOST ACTIVE IS COLUMBUS.

SO, THERE IS A LOT OF FENTANYL THAT'S COMING ACROSS, IT'S VERY EASY TO MANUFACTURE, VERY EASY TO SMUGGLE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE PORTS OF ENTRY INTO NEW MEXICO.

NEW MEXICO LAST YEAR, YOU KNOW, WAS NUMBER ONE IN TERMS OF DRUG ABUSE IN THE COUNTRY.

IT'S ALSO MY SECOND IN TERMS OF TEENAGE DRUG ABUSE IN THE COUNTRY AND THEN WE ALSO KNOW THAT DRUG TRAFFICKING GOES HAND IN HAND WITH VIOLENCE.

SO, WE ARE WAY UP THERE, IF NOT NUMBER ONE IN TERMS OF DRUG VIOLENCE.

YOU KNOW, DRUG TRAFFICKING ALSO CAUSES CORRUPTION, SOME KIDS HAVE PARENTS THAT ARE USERS OR DRUG DEALERS, AND THEY LEAVE THE FENTANYL LYING AROUND WHERE THE TODDLERS HAVE ACCESS TO THEM.

WE'VE SEEN DEATHS CAUSED THROUGH THAT IGNORANCE AND THEREFORE IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.

YOU KNOW, DRUG TRAFFICKING ALSO CAUSES COLLATERAL CRIME, WE SEE A LOT OF SHOPLIFTING, ESPECIALLY IN ALBUQUERQUE.

I'VE BEEN IN STORES WHERE THE POLICE ARE COMING AND TAKING PEOPLE AWAY, ARRESTING THEM BECAUSE OF SHOPLIFTING.

SO IT CREATES ALSO, YOU KNOW, VIOLENCE AND CREATES SO MANY PROBLEMS, WE REALLY NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB, NEW MEXICO NEEDS A STRATEGY.

A LOT OF TIMES POLICE OFFICERS, OUR MAIN CHIEFS OF POLICE OR WHAT HAVE YOU AND THEY GOVERN THROUGH STATUS QUO, THAT'S NO LONGER AN OPTION.

WE NEED VIABLE STRATEGIES, AND THE STRATEGIES NEED TO BE, YOU KNOW, COGENT, AND THEY ALSO NEED TO BE, YOU KNOW, MODIFIED AS NEEDED, BECAUSE THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT MAJOR, MAJOR, PROBLEMS.

AND THEN COMPOUNDING THAT PROBLEM IS THAT DURING THE COURSE OF THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN LAST IN TERMS OF EDUCATION.

>>LORENE: AND ALSO ANOTHER FACTOR, AND THAT IS OUR POVERTY, WE'RE A VERY POOR STATE AND WHAT IS THERE FOR A YOUNG MAN WITHOUT AN EDUCATION?

>>MICHAEL: THERE'S NOT A LOT OF OPTIONS AND THAT GOES WITH MEXICO, COLOMBIA AND A LOT OF THE SOURCE COUNTRIES IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE ARE IN THESE HAMLETS, YOU KNOW, WHERE THERE'S NO GOVERNMENT PRESENCE, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOTHING FOR THEM AND THE ONLY ROLE MODELS THAT THEY HAVE ARE IN DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

YOU KNOW THEY HAVE BEAUTIFUL CARS, THEY HAVE JEWELRY, THEY'RE WALKING AROUND WITH THESE BEAUTIFUL BEAUTY QUEENS.

SO THAT'S WHAT THEY ASPIRE TO BE AND IT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM.

I'D ALSO LIKE TO BRIEFLY MENTION THE CARTEL TERROR SCHOOLS.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>MICHAEL: THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE TAKEN TO THESE TRAINING CAMPS THAT ARE GOVERNED BY THE CARTELS, AND THEY'RE RECRUITED UNDER FALSE PRETENSES THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM SECURITY JOBS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

THEY TAKE THEM UP INTO THE MOUNTAINS WHERE THEY HAVE THESE TERROR SCHOOLS, AND THEY TELL THEM, NOW YOU'RE HERE AND THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE IS FEET FIRST.

THEY BASICALLY USE HUMAN TARGETS INSTEAD OF PAPER TARGETS, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS OF RIVAL CARTELS AND THEN THEY GO THROUGH WHAT THEY CALL BAPTISM AND THAT IS PRACTICING CANNIBALISM.

AND THEY TELL THEM YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EAT PART OF THIS CADAVER AND IF YOU THROW IT UP OR YOU CAN'T DO IT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO KILL YOU.

THEY TEACH THEM HOW TO SUSTAIN PAIN, THEY PUT THEM ON THESE FIRE ANT HILLS AND THEN THEY PUT CHICKEN BONES THERE TO AGITATE THE ANTS AND THEN THE ANTS WILL CRAWL UP THEIR LEGS AND BITE THEM AND THEY CAN'T MOVE.

IF THEY MOVE, THEY'LL KILL THEM.

THEY TEACH THEM PAIN, THEY TELL THEM, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO SUSTAIN PAIN, BECAUSE IF YOU GET WOUNDED BY A BULLET, YOU CAN'T STOP, YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE WITH YOU AND PROTECT YOURSELF.

THEN THEY PUT THEM INTO FREEZING COLD WATER UNTIL YOU KNOW THEY CAN'T FEEL THEIR LEGS, THEY ALSO HAVE THEM SLEEP WITH CADAVERS.

BASICALLY IT'S ALL TO DESENSITIZE THEM AND MAKE THEM ROBOTIC KILLING MACHINES.

THEY GO ON AND THEY DO HORRIBLE THINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE VIRTUAL ARMIES.

AND I REMEMBER IN THE STATE OF VERA CRUZ, THESE CARTEL MEMBERS, THE ZETA CARTEL WENT AND DUMPED 40 TORSOS OF HUMAN BEINGS THAT THEY HAD KILLED ON THE ROADWAY, RIGHT ON THE ROADWAY.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YES.

ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I DON'T WANT TO RUN OUT OF TIME FOR, SO I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS, MONEY LAUNDERING AND MONEY LAUNDERING TECHNIQUES.

I KNOW THAT SOMETIMES, THEY'LL BUY SOME REAL ESTATE OR SEND SOMEBODY'S KIDS TO AN EXPENSIVE SCHOOL, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT WHAT AMAZES ME THE MOST, WHAT ARE THE MONEY LAUNDERING TECHNIQUES THAT THEY CAN BEST GET AWAY WITH AND HOW MUCH MONEY IS A HIGH LEVEL CARTEL MEMBER OR DEALER EVEN LOOKING TO LAUNDER.

>>MICHAEL: WELL, ONE OF THE ONES THAT THEY USE IS CALLED LAYERING AND WHAT THEY DO IS THEY HAVE A VIRTUAL ARMY OF PEOPLE THAT GO TO BANKS AND THEY DEPOSIT AMOUNTS LESS THAN $10,000 SO THAT THEY DON'T TRIGGER ONE OF THESE SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORTS BY THE BANKS.

AND THEN MANY TIMES THEY GO INTO CHECKING ACCOUNTS.

SO THEN THEY GET THE CHECKBOOKS, SEND THEM TO MEXICO TO THE CARTELS, AND THEN THEY SELL THE DOLLARS TO BUSINESSMEN IN MEXICO THAT WANT TO BUY TRACTOR EQUIPMENT OR OTHER THINGS, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE OTHER ONE IS CALLED COMMODITY-BASED MONEY LAUNDERING, WHERE THEY HAVE THE MONEY HERE FROM THE SALES OF DRUGS AND WHAT THEY DO IS THEY'LL GO BUY CLOTHING, YOU KNOW, ELECTRONICS, THINGS THAT THEY CAN SELL VERY EASILY.

THEY HAVE THEM SHIPPED TO MEXICO WHERE THEY SELL THEM, AND THEY CONVERT THE MONEY THAT THEY GARNERED FROM THE DRUG TRADE INTO PESOS, AND THEREFORE IT'S CLEAN.

LET ME GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

WACHOVIA, ONE OF THE LARGEST BANKS IN THE UNITED STATES THAT IS NOW PART OF WELLS FARGO, AT ONE TIME LAUNDERED 394 PLUS BILLION DOLLARS.

>>LORENE: IT BOGGLES THE MIND.

>>MICHAEL: OKAY?

THE THING IS THAT THEY INDICTED THE BANK, BUT THEN THEY SETTLED THAT THEY WOULD PAY $110 MILLION IN TERMS OF FORFEITURES AND THEN $50 MILLION IN TERMS OF FINES.

THE OTHER BIG BANK THAT LENT ITSELF TO THIS MONEY LAUNDERING SCHEME WAS BASICALLY HSBC, YOU KNOW, THE HONG KONG SHANGHAI BANKING CORPORATION, ONE OF THE LARGEST BANKS IN THE WORLD.

AND THEY LAUNDERED ABOUT $818 MILLION FOR THE SINALOA CARTEL, AND THEN A CARTEL IN COLOMBIA CALLED NORTE DEL VALLE AND THEY HAD TO PAY $1.9 BILLION IN FINES.

THESE BANKS, MANY TIMES, LEND THEMSELVES TO THAT AND DURING THE BANKING CRISIS OF 2008, A LOT OF THE CARTEL MONEY SAVED THEM FROM GOING UNDER.

>>LORENE: WELL, OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL, AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT SOME OF THE BOOKS YOU'VE WRITTEN.

UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T HAVE ANY WITH ME TODAY.

ONE IS CALLED THE RISE OF THE SICARIO , WHICH IS AN ASSASSIN, RIGHT?

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S CORRECT.

SICARIO IS A HITMAN.

>>LORENE: AND THIS AMAZING BOOK CALLED DEAL, BUT IT'S DEA FOR DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION AND THEN... >>MICHAEL: THEN ADDED AN L. >>LORENE: THAT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY BOOK BECAUSE YOU DESCRIBE HOW YOU'VE SURVIVED IN THIS REALLY CUTTHROAT WORLD.

ONE YOU HAVE CALLED NARCO QUEEN , ANOTHER ONE CALLED DRUG CAPO .

THE ONE THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR NEW MEXICO IS CALLED THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT CARTEL , AND ANOTHER ONE THAT HAS A GREAT COVER, I'M SORRY I DON'T HAVE IT HERE, THE CLAW OF THE DRAGON.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ORDER THESE BOOKS ONLINE, DO YOU HAVE A WEBSITE?

>>MICHAEL: I DON'T HAVE A WEBSITE, BUT THEY CAN BE ORDERED THROUGH AMAZON, THEY ARE VERY EASILY FOUND ON AMAZON.

>>LORENE: JUST TYPE MICHAEL S. VIGIL, AUTHOR.

>>MICHAEL: JUST PUT MICHAEL S. VIGIL, DEA BOOKS.

>>LORENE: YOU'RE ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD WRITER.

THESE ARE PAGE TURNERS AND VERY REVEALING.

>>MICHAEL: AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES.

MOST AUTHORS WILL DO AN OUTLINE, I JUST TYPE THE STORY AS I'M GOING, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES.

>>LORENE: PRETTY AMAZING.

GOOD WORK.

THE CARTEL TERRORIST GHOULS WILL PROBABLY HAUNT ME FOR A LONG TIME.

SO WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT, WHAT DO PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO NEED TO LOOK OUT FOR AND THEY NEED TO KNOW.

>>MICHAEL: THE PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO REALLY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE DOING.

THEY NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL, THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ASSOCIATE WITH, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT PEER GROUPS SOMETIMES GET CHILDREN TO USE DRUGS.

THEY NEED TO MONITOR THEIR ACTIVITIES ON THE INTERNET, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE SELL DRUGS ON THE INTERNET, AND THEY ALSO HAVE TO MAKE THEMSELVES AWARE, YOU KNOW, DRUG TRAFFICKING ACTIVITIES IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION AND MONITOR THEIR CHILDREN TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE NOT USING DRUGS, BECAUSE IN NEW MEXICO NOW, FENTANYL IS A HUGE, HUGE PROBLEM.

AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE OTHER CHILDREN DYING FROM THIS HORRIBLE DRUG.

>>LORENE: DO YOU HAVE THE STATISTICS FOR HOW MANY DEATHS IN THIS STATE ARE, I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE LARGEST CAUSES OF DEATH IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO IS FENTANYL OVERDOSES.

>>MICHAEL: THAT'S CORRECT AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS AT LEAST ONE DRUG OVERDOSE DEATH EVERY 8.5 HOURS, BUT THAT INCLUDES ALL OVERDOSES.

>>LORENE: FENTANYL IS KILLING ABOUT 70,000 AMERICANS EACH YEAR.

>>MICHAEL: IN THE COUNTRY, YES.

>>LORENE: THE WORST DRUG CRISIS IN THE COUNTRY.

ANOTHER THING I WOULD LIKE PARENTS TO LOOK INTO IS, YOU CAN GOOGLE THIS, WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF SOMEBODY WHO'S STONED.

>>MICHAEL: CORRECT AND WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN ALSO IF THEIR CHILDREN ARE USING DRUGS, YOU KNOW, MAKE THEM AWARE.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THEY KNOW THAT THEIR DRUG OF CHOICE, WHETHER IT'S MARIJUANA, IT COULD BE LACED WITH DEADLY FENTANYL.

SO THEY HAVE TO BE AWARE OF THAT AND I HIGHLY COMMEND YOU, LORENE, FOR YOUR PUBLIC AWARENESS BECAUSE UNDOUBTEDLY THROUGH YOUR PROGRAM YOU'RE SAVING LIVES.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE AGENT OF CHANGE AND SAVING, SO THANK YOU.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS MICHAEL S. VIGIL, AUTHOR EXTRAORDINAIRE, TOP COP.

I'M JUST SO GRATEFUL YOU'VE COME AND SHARED YOUR KNOWLEDGE WITH US, WE'LL DO IT AGAIN SOON.

I'D LOVE TO SEE THIS FENTANYL DEATH NUMBERS GO DOWN.

>>MICHAEL: I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU SO MUCH MICHAEL.

>>MICHAEL: THANK YOU SO MUCH LORENE, YOU'RE A TREASURE TO NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

I'M LORENE MILLS, THIS IS REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

♪ MUSIC