[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're now joined by Michele Siekerka, Chief Executive Officer of the New Jersey Business and Industry Association.

The website will come up.

They're also one of our media partners.

Michele, good to have you with us.

- Oh, it's a pleasure, Steve.

- Hey, put in perspective for us the quote unquote "Corporate Transit Fee" that Governor Murphy has proposed to tax or get a fee, I'm not sure what it is, from corporations in the state that have a net annual profit of $10 million or more to fund New Jersey Transit, which is on the fiscal cliff about to fall over, please.

- Well, let's put it in perspective.

It's a tax.

Okay?

This is a tax, no matter what they call it, this is a tax.

In fact, it's a 20% tax increase on New Jersey's largest and most innovative job creators in the state of New Jersey.

And it is terrible policy, Steve.

- The response of some, particularly some Democrats who support it, said, "Hey, listen, you tax those who have the most," and they're arguing in fact...

They argue against the fair increase of New Jersey Transit for bus and trains and argue that corporations with big profits should carry that burden largely.

You say?

- Well, I say these job creators who employ tens if not hundreds of thousands of workforce across the state of New Jersey are already paying their fair share.

Let's put that in perspective.

We are the only state in the nation that we are in the top bracket for the foremost significant taxes.

Those taxes being corporate business tax, individual income tax, property tax, and sales tax.

That affects our competitiveness.

And Steve, the governor acknowledged that a high corporate business tax affects competitiveness in what is an expensive state in New Jersey, when just two weeks before he presented the budget, he stated, "When it comes to sunsetting, the corporate business tax, we must be cold-blooded about our economic development strategy."

So he acknowledged that it affects our competitiveness and then does a 360 and puts this tax back on these businesses retroactive to January 1, literally the exact day that the sunset went into effect.

- Let's put that in perspective.

So the so-called sunset of what has been known as the corporate business tax, it was supposed to end at the end of when?

- December 31st, 2023.

It's sunset.

Yes.

By statute.

- And to Michele's point, it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The governor said, "It will end.

I'm not gonna renew it.

I'm not going to un-sunset it."

Not even a word.

But then the governor came up with this corporate transit fee.

He says it's not undoing what he said he would do regarding the corporate business tax.

This is a different fee for the wealthiest corporations.

Did he go back on his word?

- He absolutely did a reverse and an about face, no matter what you call it.

- Why do you think he did it, Michele?

If he was so clear, "I'm ending the corporate business tax," and then introduces this corporate transit fee regardless of what one calls it or doesn't call it, I'm not gonna engage in semantics.

Why the heck do you think he did it if he was so clear that he wasn't going to tax businesses anymore at the end of 2023?

- Yeah, it's called political pressure, Steve.

- By whom?

- Well, let's see.

There are folks out there... First of all, let's unravel what allegedly this is going toward.

Okay?

We suggest this is going toward New Jersey Transit.

Suddenly in the last two weeks, we're throwing tons of money at New Jersey Transit without even understanding what New Jersey Transit needs for its future.

Okay?

We got the transportation trust fund money that's moving very rapidly.

In fact, I think it's on the governor's desk today as we are speaking.

- So there's a gas tax...

Sorry if I'm interrupting, Michele, A gas tax $0.02 for each year over the next five years, which is a $0.10 increase in the gas tax, correct?

- Correct, correct.

- And then with electric vehicles... - A large portion of that goes to New Jersey Transit.

Okay?

- Okay.

- We've heard that there's a rider increase, the riders, those who use the Transit, they're getting the fare increase.

- The fare increase.

- The fare increase... - Of 15%.

15%, go ahead.

- And now we're putting this $1 billion, which is exactly how it's scored in the budget from the business community.

All right?

Toward New Jersey Transit.

Now they say that they're gonna dedicate it, okay?

However, you can't dedicate those monies without a constitutional amendment.

Nobody's talking about a bill for a constitutional amendment to dedicate this 2.5% corporate business tax to Transit.

Where's this money going?

This $1 billion is being captured today and it's going into surplus for the next year because Transit doesn't even need this money until the next fiscal year.

- Why would the governor do that if he's making the case that he's trying to get New Jersey Transit off this so-called fiscal cliff because they're virtually bankrupt in the eyes of many?

Go ahead.

- Well, so let's be fair.

We'd like to be ahead in planning.

Last thing we ever wanna do is do last minute planning.

- Okay.

All right.

However, you are doing a money grab of $1 billion that will not be reinvested into company workforces, facilities or those communities to those exact companies who are planning already.

Because guess what?

A promise matters.

Businesses make investments and make plans based on predictability and certainty.

When you do a reverse and you have a rollercoaster tax policy, companies are not going to invest 'cause they cannot rely upon the word of our policy makers.

That is a horrible message to send to our current companies here in New Jersey today, and to anyone on the outside who's looking to come to New Jersey to make an investment, We don't make investments during uncertainty, Steve.

It doesn't happen.

- Are you convinced that some of these businesses that are making $10 million profits or more annually are going to quote, "Leave the state?"

- Well, Steve, I spoke with one and they said if it weren't for their long-term lease here in New Jersey, now's the time to consider.

And why?

Obviously continuing to take advantage of the business community, but guess what?

We are in a post-COVID remote hybrid work environment, corporate footprints...

Here we are, right?

Corporate footprints are shrinking.

Let's not invite a company who's going to be downsizing their corporate footprint and has a majority of their workforce remote already the invitation to take their corporate status out of the state of New Jersey and put it in a lower tax jurisdiction state, like right next door, Pennsylvania, where CBT is on a multi-year trajectory to go down to 4.99%.

- And what's ours?

- Well, right now it's nine, that was the sunset.

So guess what?

On December 31st it was nine.

Okay?

Now it will go up to 11.5 for those 600 plus companies, the largest and most innovative companies in the state of New Jersey, employing tens if not hundreds of thousands of jobs.

- Michele Siekerka as the CEO of the New Jersey Business and Industry Association.

I assure you'll have the governor or a representative from the governor's administration to make the case for this quote unquote "Corporate Transit Fee."

Michele, as always, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Thank you so much, Steve.

Be well.

- You too.

I'm Steve Adubato, thanks for joining us.

We'll see you next time.

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