THE MIGRANT CRISIS MOVES UPSTATE.

HERO OR VIGILANTE ON A NEW YORK SUBWAY?

AND COOKING WITH GAS COULD BECOME A THING OF THE PAST.

STAY TUNED FOR IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY NINA MOORE, FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

SARAH PRALLE, FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, AND LUKE PERRY AND RICK FENNER, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

OVER THE PAST YEAR, MORE THAN 60 THOUSAND MIGRANTS HAVE ARRIVED IN NEW YORK CITY, SOME BUSED NORTH BY THE GOVERNORS OF TEXAS AND FLORIDA.

NEW YORK CITY MAYOR ERIC ADAMS SAYS IT'S A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS THERE AND HAS SENT A FEW HUNDRED MIGRANTS FURTHER NORTH.

TWO BUSLOADS ARRIVED IN NEWBURGH, IN ORANGE COUNTY, LAST WEEK, OVER LOCAL OBJECTIONS.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL HAS DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY AND ASKED THE WHITE HOUSE FOR EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE.

NOW ONONDAGA, ONEIDA AND OSWEGO COUNTIES HAVE JOINED SEVERAL OTHER COUNTIES SAYING DON'T SEND ANY MIGRANTS HERE.

SHOULD UPSTATE TOWNS AND CITIES BE FORCED TO ACCEPT LARGE NUMBERS OF MIGRANTS?

>> I THINK FORCE IS A LITTLE BIT STRONG OF A WORD TO USE HERE.

I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BY THE LOCAL RESISTANCE TO ACCEPTING MIGRANTS.

FOR YEARS WE HAVE HEARD OUR FRIENDS IN GOVERNMENT TALK ABOUT THE POPULATION DRAIN UPSTATE AND HOW PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LIVE HERE BECAUSE THE TAXES ARE TO TOO HIGH AND BUSINESS OWNERS ARE SAYING THEY'RE HAVING A HARD TIME HIRING WORKERS.

HERE WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE 20, 40 MIGRANTS UNDER THE LEGAL PROCESS WHO HAVE FLED THEIR COUNTRY TO HUM HERE AND NEW YORK CITY WILL FOOT THE BILL FOR THEIR LODGING FOR FIVE MONTHS WHILE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO WORK, THEIR HEALTHCARE, THEIR FOOD.

THEY'LL EVEN PROVIDE SERVICE WORKERS TO HELP THEM WITH THE ASYLUM PROCESS.

AND WE HAVE LOCAL LEADERS IF THE SYRACUSE AND UTICA AREA SAYING NO, WE DON'T WANT THEM NO, WE DON'T WANT THEM THIS IS NOT A SIMPLE SOLUTION BUT IT IS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY AND THEY SHOULD PULL THE PUBLIC AFFAIRS, NON-PROFIT CENTER, SYRACUSE, HAMILTON, COME UP WITH A PLAN TO HELP THE PEOPLE TRANSITION AFTER A FIVE-MONTH PERIOD AND LET'S DO IT.

>> RYAN McMAHON SAID THAT HE DID ASSESS SOCIAL SERVICES AGENCIES AND THEY SAID THEY'RE STRETCHED TOO THIN.

>> YEAH, THEY'RE STRETCHED TOO THIN, NOT JUST THE SOCIAL SERVICES, BUT THE FACT THAT ONONDAGA COUNTY IS HOME TO THE HIGHEST CHILD POVERTY RATE, THE HIGHEST JUVENILE CRIME RATE, HAS THE LOWEST PERFORMING SCHOOLS AND ALSO A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF ITS POPULATION THAT'S FOOD CHALLENGED.

SO I THINK CERTAINLY IF IT WERE POSSIBLE FOR UPSTATE TO HANDLE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT APPARENTLY NEW YORK CITY ISN'T ABLE TO HANDLE, THEN THEY SHOULD.

BUT BY ALL ACCOUNTS, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE; ESPECIALLY FOR THE FIRST FIVE MONTHS WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONONDAGA COUNTY WOULD HAVE TO HOUSE AND PROVIDE SERVICES AND SUPPORT FOR AND SIMPLY ABSORB AND, AGAIN, GIVEN THE KIND OF REALLY REMARKABLE PROBLEMS THAT ONONDAGA COUNTY ALREADY HAS, TO TAKE ON MORE TO ME SEEMS TO BE A BIT MUCH.

BUT IF MY ASSESSMENT IS WRONG, AND THE RESOURCES ARE THERE, THEN CERTAINLY WE SHOULD.

BUT IF I COULD ADD-- AND I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE CONVERSATION-- I WANT TO SAY THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE RHETORIC MEETS REALITY.

WHERE ARE ALL OF THOSE SANCTUARY CITY FOLKS WHO ARE SAYING, COME.

THERE ARE SOME 14 MILLION PEOPLE IN NEW YORK CITY.

WHY AREN'T THEY OPENING UP THEIR HOMES, THEIR PLACES OF WORSHIPS, THEIR ORGANIZATIONS, THEIR BUSINESSES?

WHY SHOULD IT BE EXPECTED FOR UPSTATE NEW YORK TO SHOULDER SOME OF THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES WHEN IT CANNOT SHOULDER ITS OWN?

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.

FIRST, I THINK IT'S KIND OF IRONIC THE SHOE IS NOW ON THE OTHER FOOT.

MANY LIBERALS COMPLAINED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ARIZONA AND TEXAS COMPLAINING ABOUT MIGRANTS AND NOW WE ARE SEEING THAT, YOU KNOW, 30,000 IN NURKT IS CREATING THIS CRISIS.

BUT I AGREE TOTALLY WITH LUKE.

THE PLAN IS, FIRST OF ALL, THESE AREN'T EVEN PERMANENT PLACEMENTS.

THESE ARE MEANT TO BE FOUR TO FIVE-MONTH TEMPORARY PLACEMENTS.

THERE ISN'T A HOUSING SHORTAGE BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE HOUSED IN HOTELS THAT HAVE EXCESS CAPACITY.

AS LUKE SAID, THEY PROMISED TO PAY FOR THE TRANSPORTATION, THE HEALTHCARE, THE FOOD, THE LODGING.

SO I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE BURDEN ON SOCIAL SERVICES IS GOING TO BE IN THE SHORT RUN.

PUT OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO HELP THESE FOLKS IN THE PAST AND NOW THERE IS A CRISIS AND OUR COUNTIES HAVE BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, JUST SHUT THE DOOR.

>> YOU ARE SORT OF MENTIONING A SORT OF, THEY MIGHT BE HERE TEMPORARILY BUT GETTING BACK TO LUKE'S POINT, IT'S ACTUALLY "BETTER FOR LOCAL COMMUNITIES IF PEOPLE STAY."

BECAUSE THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT OVER TIME, THEIR FINANCIAL TRAJECTORY IS GOING UP.

THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO COMMUNITIES BY OPENING BUSINESSES, BY PAYING TAXES, BY FILLING JOBS THAT ARE NEEDED.

AND SO THESE ARE SORT OF SELF SERVING ARGUMENTS AND THEY GET MADE A LOT.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAKE THEM TO HELP AMERICANS REALIZE HOW BENEFICIAL IMMIGRATION CAN BE.

BUT I ALSO THINK THOSE KINDS OF SELF SERVING ARGUMENTS SORT OF MISS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION.

AND THAT IS NOT ONLY HOW DO UM GRANTS HELP US, SO TO SPEAK.

BUT WHAT DO WE KNOW-- WHAT DO WE OWE THEM?

AND I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SINCERELY, YOU KNOW, CURIOUS AND WONDERING AND WANT TO OPEN THEIR DOORS AND THINK WE HAVE OBLIGATIONS TO THESE PEOPLE BUT THAT IS NOT PART OF THIS LARGER CONVERSATION.

IT'S ALWAYS DIVISIVE RHETORIC ABOUT HOW THEY CAN HELP US.

WITH CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS BECOMING WORSE, THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE DISPLACED PEOPLE.

THESE ARE QUESTIONS WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES AS A SOCIETY.

>> I AGREE THAT WE SHOULD, BUT AGAIN, CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME AND FOR THE FIRST TIME OVER THE PAST MONTH OR SO, I HAD OCCASION TO DRIVE OVER NEAR THE AREA THAT IS JUST OF OF DOWNTOWN AREAS.

AND I WAS SHOCKED BY WHAT I FOUND LITERALLY WHAT WE WERE SEEING ON THE NUS IN SAN FRANCISCO WITH PEOPLE OPENLY USING DRUGS, SLOPING ON THE STREET.

I DROVE BY PEOPLE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE DEAD.

AGAIN, CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

IF THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE ON MORE, CERTAINLY, BUT WE SHOULD BEGIN BY HOUSING OUR OWN PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE, PROVIDING EDUCATION, RESOURCES, FOR THEM, MEDICAL SERVICES FOR THEM.

AND WHAT HAPPENS ONCE THE EXTERM FUNDING FOR THOSE WHO COME IN RUNS OUT BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING PROMISES AT THE OUTSET BUT AGAIN I RETURN TO ALL OF THE SANCTUARY CITY TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVE THEM COME AND WHERE ARE THE SANCTUARY CITY FOLKS NOW?

I WANT TO MAKE THE LAST POINT.

I BELIEVE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS TO TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY HERE BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE POSTURING AND THE MESSAGING THAT, BASICALLY TELEPATHED TO PROSPECTIVE MIGRANTS, COME, BUT THERE WAS NO PLAN.

EVEN THOUGH THE ENCOUNTERS AT THE BORDER HAS QUADRUPLED SINCE BIDEN HAS BEEN IN OFFICE.

SO WHY WAS MORE NOT DONE TO ACCOMMODATE, IN ADVANCE?

WHY ARE CITIES NOW STRUGGLING?

>> THAT GETS TO THE BIGGER PICTURE WHICH YOU ALLUDED TO, SARAH, THAT THERE IS AN ONGOING PROBLEM AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

>> IT'S NOT GOING TO IMPROVE?

>> THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN DOWN SINCE THE RECENT CHANGE.

NEW YORK IS UNIQUE THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE.

IT'S AN INTERESTING DICHOTOMY.

>> BUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTERWARDS.

>> ARE THE SOUTHERN GOVERNORS WRONG TO SEND PEOPLE NORTH AND SAY SHARE IN OUR BURDEN?

>> THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF HYPOCRISY HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING THAT ERIC ADAMS DID EXACTLY WHAT DeSANTIS AND ABBOTT DID, BUT SIMILAR IN SAYING WE CAN'T HANDLE THIS.

LET'S PUSH IT OFF ON TO SOMEBODY ELSE.

>> OKAY, NOW A 24-YEAR-OLD FORMER MARINE HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER AFTER RESTRAINING A HOMELESS MAN WHO REPORTEDLY WAS THREATENING PASSENGERS ON THE NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC SUBWAY DANIEL PENNY PUT THE HOMELESS MAN, JORDAN NEELY, IN A MINUTES-LONG CHOKEHOLD, WHICH KILLED HIM.

PENNY IS WHITE, NEELY WAS BLACK.

PENNY IS NOW BEING LAUDED AS A HERO BY MANY ON THE RIGHT FOR PROTECTING PEOPLE ON THE TRAIN.

WHERE IS THE LINE BETWEEN STEPPING UP TO PROTECT OTHERS AND VIGILANTE JUSTICE?

SHOULD PENNY HAVE BEEN CHARGED?

>> I BELIEVE THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT HE USED EXCESSIVE FORCE IN THIS CASE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE IS GUILTY.

I JUST SAID I THINK THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE FOR HIM TO BE CHARGED.

THE VIDEO ONLY STARTS WHEN NEELY IS ON THE GROUND.

AS YOU SAID, IT'S LIKE A FOUR OR FIVE MINUTES HE WAS IN THE CHOKE HOLD.

CONTINUED TO HOLD HIM EVEN AFTER HE WASN'T MOVING.

I THINK AS A MARINE, PENNY PROBABLY HAD SOME KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HE WAS DOING.

AND THERE IS ALSO EVIDENCE FROM BYSTANDERS, SOMEONE SAID "YOU DON'T HAVE TO CATCH A MURDER CHARGE.

YOU GOT A HELL OF A CHOKE HOLD, MAN. "

SO SOMEBODY THERE WHO WAS WATCHING WAS CONCERNED THAT EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS BEING... >> I'M INTERESTED IN WHERE THIS LINE IS BETWEEN PROTECTING PEOPLE AND VIGILANTE JUSTICE.

ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER RIDDEN THE NEW YORK CITY SUBWAY AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER HAS HAD A THREATENING PERSON COME ON.

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD USE VIGILANTE AS NECESSARILY THE RIGHT WORD IN TERMS OF DANIEL PENNY.

THE VIDEO STARTS WITH HIM ALREADY ON THE GROUND.

SO DID PENNY GO AFTER HIM?

WAS THERE SOME THREATENING MOTION TOWARDS-- NEELY WAS ON THE GROUND.

DID PENNY FEEL THREATENED?

I'M NOT SURE I WOULD USE VIGILANTE BUT THERE CLEARLY IS WHEN IS IT OKAY TO USE THAT KIND OF FORCE.

>> I DO THINK THERE IS AN INCREASING KIND OF ENDORSEMENT ON THE RIGHT OF THIS KIND OF EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING OF VIGILANTE JUSTICE.

IT REMIND ME OF THE CONVERSATION WE HAD A COUPLE WEEKS AGO ABOUT THE STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS.

THEY HAVE A VERY EXPANSIVE DEFINITION OF WHAT IS THREATENING AND WHO IS THREATENING AND BLACK PEOPLE FOR INSTANCE ARE SEEN AS ALMOST INHERENTLY THREATENING TO SOME PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE THE IDEA THAT THEY WANT TO RESTORE PUBLIC SAFETY.

BUT I REALLY THINK IT'S NOT PUBLIC SAFETY.

IT'S SORT OF PUBLIC ORDER, A WHITE SOCIAL HIERARCHY THEY THINK IS SLIPPING AWAY FROM THEM THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO REESTABLISH.

AND I THINK THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS REALLY INDICK AT THIS OF-- INDICATIVE OF A MUCH LARGER PROBLEM AND WORRISOME TREND.

>> I THINK IT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

AS A WHOIT MAN, IF I TRY TO PUT MYSELF IN THAT SITUATION, I WOULD BE CONCERNED FOR MY SAFETY.

I HAVE YEARS EXPERIENCE WORKING ODD JOBS IN SECURITY AND THE FIRST THING I WOULD WANT TO DO IS FLEE A SITUATION AND THINK OF MY EXIT STRATEGY.

I THINK ABOUT MY EXIT STRATEGY ALL THE TIME BECAUSE OF MY WORK EXPERIENCE.

IF YOU ARE ON A TRAIN, YOU DON'T HAVE AN EXIT STRATEGY THAT YOU CAN EXECUTE IMMEDIATELY.

THEN SOMEBODY IS TALKING ABOUT NOT CARING ABOUT WHETHER THEY LIVE OR NOT.

MY THOUGHTS GO TO, OKAY, SO THIS IS A RED FLAG.

THIS IS A CONCERNING SITUATION.

I'M TRYING TO ASCERTAIN TO WHAT EXTENT MIGHT THIS PERSON HAVE A WEAPON AND USE IT.

THAT'S VERY HARD TO TELL.

AND SO I THINK YOU ARE TOUCHING ON IMPORTANT PROBLEMS.

BUT I ALSO HAVE A LOT OF EMPATHY.

THE MOST EMPATHY FOR THE PERSON WHO WAS KILLED.

I AGREE THAT THIS WAS EXCESSIVE FORCE AND NOT APPROPRIATE BUT I ALSO HAVE EMPATHY FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WITNESSEDDED THE KILLING AND THE PERSON WHO TOOK ACTION, ALBEIT THE WRONG ACTION, UNDER THESE VERY DIFFICULT AND TRYING CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> AND I'M HAVING RIDDEN THE SUBWAY IN A NUMBER OF CITIES, I CAN SAY QUITE A FEW WHO ARE LEFT TO THAT FORM OF TRANSPORTATION HAPPEN TO BE PEOPLE OF COLOR, AND THOSE WHO ARE LOWER INCOME.

AND MYSELF, I WAS ACTUALLY ATTACKED ON THE SUBWAY ONCE AND REMAIN SHOCKED THAT ABSOLUTELY NO ONE DID ANYTHING.

BUT HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I GO TO RICK'S POINT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS SUFFICIENT REASON FOR DANIEL PENNY TO BE FEARFUL OR, FOR THAT MATTER, FOR THE PASSENGERS.

AND BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW, FROM 30,000 FEET IN THE AIR AND WITHOUT ALL OF THE FACTS, ALL THAT WE KNOW IS THAT HE WAS ENGAGED IN MENACING BEHAVIOR.

AND TO SARAH'S POINT, WHAT DOES MENACING MEAN?

AND DOES MENACING MEAN A BLACK PERSON, A BLACK MALE, WHO IS BEHAVING IN A WAY THAT PASSENGERS DON'T FIND ACCEPTABLE?

NO PASSENGER HAS REPORTED AN AN OVERT THREAT.

THERE WAS NO ACTUAL PHYSICALITY INVOLVED.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, DANIEL PENNY HIMSELF WAS NOT THREATENED AND HE SAID HE WAS ACTING ON BEHALF OF OTHER PASSENGERS.

SO HERE'S THE THING.

WHEN YOU WANT TO BE A HERO, BE PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

IN THIS CASE, A JURY WILL LOOK AT ALL OF THE FACTS THAT WE DON'T HAVE AND MAKE A DECISION.

BUT IF I CAN ADD, GOING TO SARA RA'S POINT, IN THE BACKDROP OF ALL OF THIS IS THIS FEAR, THIS FEAR OF CRIME BROADLY RIDDEN.

IT'S NOT ENTIRELY UNFOUNDED BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN RISING CRIME RATES AND PARTICULARLY IN THE SUBWAY.

SO THE MENTALITY OF BOTH DANIEL PENNY AND THE PASSENGERS, I BELIEVE, WAS COLORED BY THAT.

>> I WOULD JUST ADD THOUGH, I AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU THAT THERE ARE SOME REAL FEARS THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M VIGILANT, TOO, IN PUBLIC SPACES.

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY IS GUN VIOLENCE.

AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO DEAL WITH AT ALL.

AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES SOME OF THESE SCENARIOS VERY SCARY IS THE WIDESPREAD, YOU KNOW, USE OF GUNS AND THE CARRYING OF GUNS IN PUBLIC SPACES.

AND THAT'S THE REAL THREAT OF VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH IT.

>> WHEN NEW YORK PASSED A BUDGET A COUPLE WEEKS AGO IT BECAME THE FIRST STATE TO BAN GAS APPLIANCES IN NEW CONSTRUCTION.

NEW BUILDINGS LESS THAN SEVEN STORIES MUST HAVE ELECTRIC HEATING AND STOVES STARTING IN 2027.

TALLER BUILDINGS GET AN EXTRA COUPLE OF YEARS BEFORE THEY TOO, MUST BE ELECTRIC.

>> SO, SARAH, THE PUSH TOWARDS GAS HERE, IS IT PERHAPS SHOULD NEW YORK BE TAKING THIS STEP OR ARE WE MAYBE GETTING A LITTLE TOO MUCH TOO FAST?

>> NO, I THINK WE SHOULD BE THANKING OUR GOVERNOR FOR TAKING THIS IMPORTANT FIRST STEP.

WE ARE THE FIRST STATE IN THE NATION WHO HAS BANNED GAS HOOKUPS IN NEW CONSTRUCTION.

AND THESE CHARGES, SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF GOVERNMENT OVERREACH, THOSE ARE REALLY BEING FUELED BY THE GAS INDUSTRY LOBBY, WHICH YOU KNOW, FOR DECADES HAS BEEN LOBBYING AGGRESSIVELY AND PUSHED GAS IN TWO WAYS.

1: AS A CLEAN ALTERNATIVE AND GRANTED IT'S CLEANER THAN COAL BUT IT'S STILL A FOSSIL FUEL.

AND SECONDLY, THEY'VE PUSHED THIS IDEA THAT COOKING WITH GAS IS MUCH SUPERIOR TO COOKING WITH AN ELECTRIC STOVE.

AND THEY WERE CLEVER, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THAT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY HAVE AN EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO THEIR GAS FURNACE OR THEIR GAS WATER HEATER AND WOULD PROBABLY BE HAPPY TO HAVE AN ELECTRIC WATER HEATER OR HEAT PUMP.

HOWEVER, PEOPLE HAVE A REAL EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO COOKING, TO FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES.

SO THEY'VE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CREATED THIS KIND OF COMMON, YOU KNOW, SENSE OR WISDOM THAT GAS IS SO MUCH BETTER FOR COOKING ON.

AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE USING TO TRY TO CREATE SOME KIND OF, YOU KNOW, BACKLASH AGAINST THESE TYPES OF POLICIES.

>> I SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THERE ARE EXEMPTIONS FOR HOSPITALS, RESTAURANTS AND FACTORIES AND... >> CAR WASHES.

THERE ARE QUITE A FEW.

I AGREEY WITH SARAH.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING TO START IN 2027 FOR JUST NEW CONSTRUCTION AND SOME NOT UNTIL 2030.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE ALREADY IMPOSED THIS.

I THINK 20 IN CALIFORNIA; ALTHOUGH THERE IS A BIG CASE WHERE THEY LOST A COURT CHALLENGE.

BUT THAT MAY BE ON THE SPECIFICS OF THE LAW AS OPPOSED TO THE GENERAL IDEA OF WHETHER YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, LIMIT THE USE OF GAS.

SO ON THE SURFACE, I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU, SARAH.

THERE IS STILL THE PROBLEM THAT THE ELECTRICITY HAS TO BE PRODUCED AND WE STILL USE GAS TO , YOU KNOW, SUPPORT OR PRODUCE ALMOST HALF OF THE ELECTRICITY IN THIS COUNTRY, SO WE MIGHT NOT BE SEEING THE POSITIVE IMPACT AS MUCH UNLESS WE FIND OTHER WAYS OF PRODUCING ELECTRICITY.

IF WE JUST GO AND PRODUCE ELECTRICITY USING GAS, TAKING IT OUT OF THE HOUSE AND JUST MAKING THEM USE ELECTRICITY THAT'S BEEN PRODUCED BY GAS IS NOT GOING TO BE HELPFUL.

>> THAT POINT ABOUT THE GRID AND WHERE DOES THE ELECTRICITY COME FROM CAME UP A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUSH FOR E.V.s LUKE.

>> I THINK STEPS LIKE THIS ARE IMPORTANT IN RETHINKING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE ENERGY THAT WE USE.

I MEAN THE ONE THING THAT I'VE BEEN INTERESTED IN IS THE CONSUMER RIGHTS ARGUMENT AGAINST THIS, WHICH I DON'T FIND COMPELLING.

THE IDEA THAT THIS IS YOUR HOME AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT WHAT YOU WANT IN YOUR HOME.

THE GOVERNMENT REGULATES ASPECTS.

IF I HAVE AN AFFINITY FOR ASBESTOS, DOESN'T MEAN I CAN HAVE IT THROUGH MY HOUSE.

SO THAT PIECE I DON'T FIND VERY PERSUASIVE.

>> I WOULD JUST ADD THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF REGISTERED NEW YORK VOTERS ARE NOT THERE YET.

ONLY 40% SUPPORT IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THEY HAVEN'T EXPRESSED ANY EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT, BUT THEY'VE SAID THE ELECTRIC STOVES DON'T COOK AS WELL AS THE GAS STOVES.

THAT'S WHAT MOST OF THE RESPONDENTS SAID.

I THINK IT COULD HAVE TO DO WITH COOKING.

BUT-- COOKING ABILITY THAT IS.

>> BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE.

AT SOME POINT LEADERSHIP HAS TO TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MOVING US FORWARD WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE POLICIES AND FOSSIL FUELS.

AND IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE CASE.

AND I'M GOING TO WORRY MORE ABOUT TOMORROW THAN I AM ABOUT THE POLAR BEARS 10, 20, 30 YEARS FROM NOW.

AND SO I COMMEND THE GOVERNOR FOR HAVING SIGNED THIS LEGISLATION.

SOME FINE TUNING, I THINK, WILL BE NECESSARY, MAKING SURE THERE IS A GRID AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, GETTING RID OF SOME OF THE EXECS EDGESES-- GETTING RID OF THE SOME OF THE EXEMPTION.

>> MAKING SURE THERE IS A GRID IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FINE TUNING.

>> IF YOU HOOK UP THESE BUILDINGS WITH ELECTRIC TO BEGIN WITH, AS THE GRID GETS CLEANER, THE BUILDINGS GET CLEANER VERSUS A BUILDING THAT IS ON GAS THAT WILL CONTINUE TO POLLUTE.

AND ONE LAST POINT ABOUT GAS STOVES IS THAT THEY, CONSUMERS SHOULD BE AWARE THEY CREATE A LOT OF DANGEROUS INDOOR AIR POLLUTION.

>> THE LAST THING ON THIS IS JUST ALSO TO POINT OUT THAT EXISTING CONSTRUCTION COULD STILL REPLACE GAS WITH GAS.

LET'S GO TO THE As AND F RS.

NINA.

>> MICROSOFT RELEASED A REPORT THAT SHOWS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS ALREADY SHOWING SIGNS OF HUMAN REASONING.

THERE WAS ONE PROMPT TO AN A.I.BOT THAT ASKED IT TO ARRANGE SEVERAL OBJECTS.

THE BOT ITSELF DECIDED IT NEEDED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT NOT CRACKING THE EGGS, WHICH WERE PART OF THE OBJECTS, AND NOBODY HAD TOLD IT THAT IT NEEDED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.

>> SARAH, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO BRANDON WILLIAMS, REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE 26th DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, INCLUDING SYRACUSE CITY.

AND THIS IS FOR FAILING TO SUPPORT A CLEAN DEBT CEILING BILL.

THE REPUBLICANS INTRANSIGENCE ON THE DEBT CEILING ISSUE IS NOW AFFECTING U.S. FOREIGN POLICY.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD TO CUT HIS VISIT TO AUSTRALIA TO COME BACK TO D.C. TO DEAL WITH THIS MESS BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT IS SET TO DEFAULT IN EARLY JUNE.

AND SOME FOREIGN POLICY EXPERTS HAVE SAID CANCELING THESE VISITS REPRESENTS A BIG WIN FOR CHINA AND SELF INFICTED BLOW TO THE U.S.' SOUTH PACIFIC STANDING.

BRANDON WILLIAMS IS NOW THREATENING OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AS WELL AS NOT REFLECTING HIS CONSTITUENTS PREFERENCE.

>> MY F GOES TO THE PENTAGON FOR A $3 BILLION ACCOUNTING ERROR REGARDING WEAPONS IN UKRAINE.

THIS MISTAKE IS SO BIG IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE AND THEY TOOK TWO MONTHS BEFORE THEY NOTIFIED CONGRESS JUST YESTERDAY.

>> RICK.

>> MY F IS ABOUT TO DIANE FEINSTEIN OF CALIFORNIA.

IT APPEARS HER HEALTH PROBLEMS WERE EVEN MORE SERIOUS THAN PREVIOUSLY TOLD, INCLUDING ENCEPHALITIS.

SHE HAS HAD A DISTINGUISHED CAREER AND WON'T RUN IN 2024, IT IS HARD TO SEE HOW HER CONTINUED INSISTENCE REMAINING IN OFFICE BENEFITS HER CONSTITUENTS, HER CAUSES, PER HEART AND THE COUNTRY.

>> As NINA.

>> I CAN COUNT ON TWO FINGERS THE NUMBER OF TIME THAT A NEW TELEVISION SHOW HAS SERIOUSLY IMPACTED ME.

ONE OF THE MOST RECENT IS DAVID MUIR'S REPORT ON A COUNTRY STRUGGLING WITH CIVIL CONFLICT, FAMINE, STARVATION, DISEASE AND FOUR YEARS OF CONSTANT RAIN FLOOD.

IN SOME AREAS, THERE IS NO LAND TO FARM OR LIVESTOCK, SO MOTHERS HAVE TO DIVE IN STAGNANT FLOODWATER IN ORDER TO SEARCH FOR WATER LILLIES AND PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE.

>> SARAH, YOUR A.

>> TO VOTERS IN THAILAND WHO, OVER THE WEEKEND, VOTED IN LARGE NUMBERS FOR A PROGRESSIVE PRO-DEMOCRACY PARTY CALLED MOVE FORWARD.

THIS CAME AS A SHOCK TO THE CURRENT MILITARY-LED REGIME IN THAILAND WHICH HAS DOMINATED THY POLITICS SINCE THE MILITARY COUP OF 2014.

IT SUGGESTS THAT MANY THY CITIZENS WOULD LIKE TO SHIFT TOWARDS A REPRESENTATIVE TRADITIONAL DEMOCRACY AND THAT'S A GOOD THING.

>> MY A GOES TO ALL RECENT COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY GRADUATES, INCLUDING THE CHILDREN OF OUR HOST AND PRODUCER.

CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU FOR MY DAUGHTER'S SAKE.

>> AND RICK, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO VOTERS OF FLORIDA'S LARGEST CITY, JACKSONVILLEVILLE.

THIS WEEK THEY ELECTED DEMOCRAT DONNA DEEGAN.

HER VICTORY OVER DANIEL DAVIS, ONE TIME MODERATE REPUBLICAN TURNED HARD LINER PUT A BRAKE ON FLORIDA'S HARD TURN TO THE RIGHT.

>> QUICKLY A LETTER THAT WE RECEIVED, WE VEFFED AN EMAIL FROM PORTLAND ORGANIZE-- OREGON ABOUT THE DISCUSSION ON THE DEBT CEILING AND NOTICED WE FAILED TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE FAL DEBT AND DEFICIT AND WE HAVE AN EXIFT.

>> THE DEFICIT IS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS MORE THAN IT COLLECTS IN TAXES IN A GIVEN YEAR.

THE DEBT IS THE ACCUMULATION OF ALL OUR PAST DEFICITS.

>> AND THE DEBT CEILING IS TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY TO PAY THOSE BILLS WE'VE ALREADY ACCRUED.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS, YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER."

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.