Mike Braun's property tax proposal.

Concerns about high school diploma changes.

Plus a new IU protest policy and more from the studios at WFYI, it's Indiana Week in Review for the week ending August 2nd, 2024.

Indiana Weekend Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana Public Broadcasting stations.

This week, Republican gubernatorial candidate Mike Braun is adjusting his property tax reform proposal.

Just days after he unveiled it, Braun was responding to criticism over the plans uneven impact.

Braun's original proposal made major changes to the homestead deductions used to calculate property tax bills.

Braun said it would reset everyone's bills to 2021 levels, but that wasn't true for homes with values of at least $125,000.

Homeowners paying a tax rate of about 2.5%, or more wouldn't see any savings under Braun's plan.

And in Indiana's ten most populous counties, which account for half the state's population, more than half of the tax districts had rates above 2.5%.

So now, Braun says, homeowners tax bills would reduce to either what they paid in 2021 or the new calculation in his plan, whichever is lower.

Still no word what the proposal would cost local governments, as property taxes largely pay for schools, police and fire departments.

Is Mike Braun's property tax plan workable?

It's the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat Laura Beck, Republican Mike O'Brien.

Jon Schwantes, host of Indiana Lawmakers.

And Ebony Chappel, market director for Free Press Indiana.

I'm Indiana Public Broadcasting statehouse bureau chief Brandon Smith.

Mike O'Brien, is it concerning that Braun had to change the plan within days of unveiling it?

It'd be more concerning if he realizes there was something wrong with it, or maybe was inequitable in a way he didn't expect it.

And then he said, I don't really care.

I'm not changing it like most, like a lot of politicians do.

And I'm just going to dig in and say, you're a liar.

He's not doing that.

He's, he's, he's moving.

And that's just going to be the nature of this debate for the next like nine months.

It's going to be your state House guy.

Like, oh yeah, no Bill.

That no bill in the last session is the same as the bill was on the first day, especially something that's complicated.

So Braun's kind of planted the flag on the, you know, the first flag on property tax relief for homeowners.

It's becoming incredibly predictable already in the political and the political reaction to this is is exactly what it was in 0708 when we were dealing with property tax relief.

The first time, it's like, oh my God, the local government, you know what?

Government can't afford that.

You pick and you're picking winners and losers and you're trying to measure the impact and you're trying to balance the impact and figure out, you know what?

Cut is too deep, but how do we get how do we get relief to homeowners?

In which homeowners do we get?

Do we get relief, too?

Those are all the things that that need to be talked about.

But you're coming from the perspective of the government can't afford it, and you're running for office right now and you're going door to door.

You're going to a town hall, or you're in the diner and we're on the square, and some guy's sitting there with a property tax bill.

It went up double digits.

He doesn't know why nothing changed.

Yeah, or he's sitting on a bill he can't pay you better have an answer for that.

Answer it better not be.

Government can't afford it.

And so that's that's the political lens that that these guys are looking through right now.

And we'll get in the session and they'll do exactly what they did last time, which was balance the impact.

Then there is going to be there has to be a downside impact on local government.

Of course, if you're going to provide any kind of meaningful tax relief to the people that so the people that need it, is that an unavoidable problem that local governments are?

By I mean, it seems like we've started in the last year or so.

We started with let's look at the entire state tax system, because we've had all this money for so long in the state budget or in the state coffers, we can provide some relief and look at the whole thing and find a better system.

And that's been winnowed down to, after hearing from Hoosiers, my property taxes, property tax as opposed the other bills.

Yes.

And we all know that a lot of money it is responding to a direct problem.

Is any property tax relief necessarily going to come at the cost of local governments?

Well, I think that oftentimes it does.

And that's a challenge that local governments are faced with.

And I mean, when we talk about local governments, we're talking about, you know, your police officers, your firefighters, you know, we're talking about, your libraries and we are talking about these really important services that we all rely on and we use every single day.

But I think to to Mike's point about how people are coming up and diner saying, look at my tax bill.

We have a $2 billion surplus right now.

If you really want to provide meaningful relief to people, stop sitting on the surplus and give the money back to the people at work.

Well, but.

It's not nearly enough money and too well, it's one time money right back.

Wait a minute.

Don't interrupt me.

I'm talking.

but here's the thing.

To the average person who's sitting there talking to who's sitting there listening to these kind of things, they don't want to hear that it's going to be all worked down in the statehouse.

They want to hear, what are you doing for me?

What are you doing for me?

Right now?

They see $2 billion.

They wonder, why am I not getting a cut of this?

Meanwhile, Medicaid is suffering, right?

You got $1 billion problem there.

You've got people who are really hurting.

but at the same time, I guess I expected a little bit more from Mike Braun.

Frankly.

I mean, he came out of this primary, he won it hands down.

I mean, you know, you're going to be coming out of this.

Why didn't you have a better fleshed out plan?

I mean, the plan comes out on a Friday, which was super clumsy.

It's clear that, I mean, who puts news out on Friday, right?

It's not bad news.

came out on Friday.

It was really clumsy, easy to walk it back.

I mean, I, I just think that this is your signature proposal.

It really needs to be fleshed out and vetted a little bit more.

the the, the the issue of property taxes will not be Mike Braun's alone.

Of course.

whoever the next governor is will deal with whoever's in the legislature next year, because this is clearly a problem everyone wants to address.

It's easy, I think.

To Mike's point, I agree.

You can't tell the average person, well, the government doesn't have enough money, so we can't help you out.

But is the harder problem for whoever's creating this?

The solution is going to be it's not so much government doesn't have the money.

It's, well, we have to take money from your police department.

We have to take money from your fire department.

We have to take money from your schools.

Is that going to be the problem for lawmakers in the next governor?

I think it is a problem for sure, but it is a solution that they should be equipped to speak to and to address, with the best, outcomes in mind for your average everyday Hoosier.

I think, echoing the points that have been made when you talk to your average everyday person and they're looking at their property tax bill, I would be one of those people.

As a new homeowner, they want to know that the government is going to operate with their best interest in mind.

I think telling people the truth, this is what it takes in order to make that happen.

I don't think that that is something that would be wrong or received.

negative by your average everyday person.

I think if there was ever a time to be very direct and open with the people about what's going on in an effort to provide relief, this will be the time when.

We do that with schools, right?

And we do sometimes and it's not works.

Yeah, it it hasn't.

But I think it's worth it's absolutely worth exploring for sure.

in terms of Mike Braun's actual plan, obviously, we'll see what I mean.

If Mike Braun becomes governor, then whatever the I mean, the legislature is going to come up with a plan for the most part.

But the parts about the that aren't getting talked about as much because obviously they don't have the direct financial impact immediately.

But the things I think that could be included in whatever the legislature does feels like the transparency part of it, which is on the referendums that locals do to raise the tax rate outside of the caps, will put on their.

This is how much it would affect the median homeowners bill in the area where you're trying to raise those taxes.

Is something like that necessary going forward?

So the people have an understanding of what they're voting on.

I, I think any time you can equip voters and taxpayers with information, that's a benefit.

that just should be a rule of thumb, I think for government in a democracy.

but you're right.

The nuances are complicated here.

We have a situation where office holders for, legislative office for state level office, and in some cases for local office run on these platforms that government that I want to be part of is so bloated and so inefficient, and they so squander your money that they can take a huge haircut financially without feeling it.

Well, guess what people say.

Oh, I like that message.

I'm going to put you in office, and then you get in office and then you realize.

Look at the balance sheet.

Look at the balance sheet.

This isn't what I thought it was.

Government is expensive.

Roads cost money, schools cost money, libraries cost money and medical care.

Everything costs money.

And and we seem to have embraced this fiction, this fantasy, with many lawmakers or potential lawmakers aiding and abetting in this process of thinking that somehow that's all some, you know, smoke and mirrors game to, to get our money as taxpayers.

it also you talked about it's no comfort to know that the police and fire are hurting and also doesn't afford Hoosiers much comfort to know that their tax bills, even in their heightened state, are still tremendously lower than they are a lot of East Coast and West Coast, by because of the constitutional caps that were put in place.

So it's and keep in mind also as part of this, this all taxes are bad mantra.

We've cut business taxes, corporate taxes.

We have cut.

The individual income tax, the.

Individual income tax, something.

Something that's no.

Mathematician, but something it's not as if roads all of a sudden got cheap, schools got cheap and are free.

The money's got to come from somewhere.

All right.

University leaders from across Indiana expressed concerns this week about proposed changes to the state's high school diplomas.

That includes Purdue University president saying the changes do not meet the school's admissions standards from his education desk.

Rachel Fredette reports.

This comes as the state's education department seeks revisions to its initial proposal for diplomas.

Purdue President Mung Chiang says the current diploma plan fall short of admission requirements in math, social studies and world languages.

He wrote this in a letter to Indiana's education department and the Commission for Higher Education.

Chang also says Purdue students who graduated with the high School Honors diploma perform well at the flagship research university.

Under the current plan, the honors Diploma won't be available.

The Education department plans to share a revised draft of the diplomas to the State Board of Education in August.

Lara.

This is part of a larger shift in state policy toward high school, aiming to provide clearer pathways yes to higher education, but also to the workforce, whether it's trade school or directly into the workforce.

Is are these sorts of changes too far a shift?

I don't know if they're necessarily too far a shift, because I don't think that post-secondary education is probably right for everybody just right out of college.

Right.

I think that's reality.

And I think that the more that schools and, work with unions, I work with businesses, they work with other folks to get even kids into parents, get them into like, good paying pathways.

that's important.

I think the broader concern about these education guidelines is that you are moving the goalposts to change, because the outcomes that you've set for yourself, you're not meeting.

Right.

And I feel like the last several years, of education reform by the Republicans have just been a failure.

And we're now at the bottom of the barrel.

we are now going to be these folks want to take away a math requirement, which is kind of important, foreign language draft, which is also kind of important.

I mean, skills you have to you need to see them in the coming economy.

Right.

So I feel like it also is going to put an undue barrier on people who are parents of first generation college students.

How do you navigate I mean, I'm a parent of a high schooler.

I can't follow half of this stuff.

And, I mean, I generally am somewhat up to date on these things.

So how do you navigate this?

Plus, what does this do to kids who are in the 21st Century Scholar program?

Right.

They sign up, they say they're going to go to college, they're going to get a paid for.

How are they going to be impacted?

So I think the fact that these colleges and universities are saying, wait a minute, this is not such a great idea.

Let's have an opportunity to go over this.

And really look at this in detail is incredibly important because what they have been doing isn't working, and you just can't change the metrics because you don't like the outcomes.

It is the barrier for, especially for first generation students, was something that some of the university leaders brought up in their feedback to the state Department of Education.

it just it seems like we're setting kids up for a fall here with the changes as they are right now, which is why I was in high school.

I thought I was doing the right thing, but it turns out I can't get into Purdue or IU.

That feels like a problem that needs to be solved sooner rather than later.

I am the first generation.

Yeah.

Yeah, right you are.

You are.

yeah.

So I, I think is what we're seeing.

We spent so much time prioritizing in secondary, higher education to put kids on that path.

And that was how you were going to, you know, climb the economic ladder.

That's how you were going to, you know, move up, you know, in kind of the class system.

that was the, you know, that was the best future for you for, for, for decades.

We spent decades spent doing that.

And I think what we recognize not long ago when some of these changes were being, being brought, was we're kind of leaving a whole group of kids without like, just, oh, cool, you have your high school diploma.

Go figure it out.

You'll be a great plumber.

I don't know how to do that either.

You know, how do we create a pipeline?

How do we connect employers and create it, create a pipeline for it, for that option.

And I think that's a laudable idea.

That's what they're like.

But it's all about the Biden administration as kid with a senior as a senior in high school who hopefully is getting an honors diploma and wants to go to Purdue, I really hope that works.

You.

I'm with you.

I'm in the same boat.

I mean, and you're also looking at other kids who, you know, that that post-secondary education might not, might not be a thing for them.

And they might want to do it somewhere down the road.

And my concern is how schools and school systems will implement it.

Right.

You're going to have some they're going to do it really well, and you're going to have some that are just going to kind of leave the kids hanging out there.

In terms of concerns from university leaders that assuming this problem isn't immediately solved in the next month or two, and that this maybe is a conversation that the legislature has, next year, at least broadly, given the legislatures, some in the legislatures attitude towards higher education leaders of late, our concerns from higher education leaders going to carry much weight in the halls of the statehouse.

Well, the worst case scenario, and I'm being somewhat facetious here, is that the legislature says we don't like the standards and the approach that Purdue and IU and the other ones are taking.

We think that you should do this if you want to really create a scary scenario.

We know better than new higher education about what society needs to advance.

to listen.

To a budget session.

Let's got.

Yeah, but pay attention.

The problem is here.

I mean it right there.

We've had an emphasis and again, not just in Indiana as a society, go get a college education because that is the ticket for for many families and many individuals.

And maybe that wasn't right.

We know empirically that wasn't right for every student.

And in fact, look where a lot of the jobs are exists now they're in the trades and you can make a handsome wage in the trades if you have the right certification and credentials.

So I think rightly, the shift was to to make sure they're pathways for those individuals to the challenges though.

Do you hurt when you shift?

Do you work group one and you want to?

It's a cliche to say, you know, we often say, well, you can't be everything to everybody, but if there's one sector of society where you do need to be everything to everybody, it's probably education, because that's the one thing where everybody's kind of different.

And you and I know it's cost money.

Getting back to what we just talked about, we're already going to cut and slash.

But my goodness you can't be everything to everybody on a budget.

I do want to ask though about the state Department of Education.

I'm not going to pretend like this is an easy task that they are currently undertaking, because if you look at some of the feedback from various university leaders, again that came out this week, they can't even agree on some of these things.

So like some of them said, oh yeah, the new diploma, like seals, the type of diploma you're going to get.

We really like that idea because it makes it clear, like this is what this student was working towards.

And others were like, I don't really like that idea at all.

I think it could be confusing for universities to know exactly what they were going to get.

So is that part of the problem for the state here is that even the university leaders, who have a lot of skin in the game here, or need to think even they can't agree on exactly what the package needs to be.

I feel like that's part of the issue.

But going back to the budget, it's either you pay for this now and you figure this out now, or you pay for it later.

And I feel like the situation that we're in now is absolutely to pay for it later.

I think that it is, in effect, of not investing in early childhood education.

I feel like it's an effect of not empowering parents early on to be a part of their child's education.

and frankly, just the confusing nature of public education and school choice in our community across the state.

As a first generation college student and also someone that graduated with an honors diploma, I can speak to the fact that it empowered me to be prepared, not only for secondary education, but also for the workforce in general, whether that was a trade, and I did have a trade, whether that was working in more of a professional setting because it was setting me up to know how to think.

And I think that's the part that's being missed here.

So of course you can lower the expectations, which is what I feel like is is happening here.

You can lower the expectations of what a student is supposed to accomplish in school, and then they leave and now they are set up to fail.

So I find it to be very unfortunate.

I do think that there needs to be someone that steps up and says, we need to all get on the same page.

Higher education, the state legislatures, the superintendents of school being on the same page about what it is that we're expecting from these students, and making sure that this implemented early and often.

I was not an honor student, first generation, no honors.

But youre here!

Yeah.

Time now.

Time now for viewer feedback.

Each week we post an unscientific online poll question.

This week's question is, is Indiana changing its high school diploma requirements too much?

A yes or B no.

Last week we asked you who will win the presidential race.

84% say Democrat Kamala Harris, 15%.

That's a balanced audience.

15% say Republican Donald Trump.

I mean, normally where our numbers are, that would suggest some pessimism even among Republicans for Donald Trump.

And 1% say someone else.

If you'd like to take part in the poll, go to WFYI.org/IWIR and look for the poll.

Oh, we're still on higher education.

The Indiana University Board of Trustees passed a new expressive activities policy this week that creates new guidelines for when and how activities like protests can take place on campus.

The policy creates a ban on camping, which outlaws the liberated zone and done meadow that's been the site of pro-Palestinian protests for months.

It also limits express of activity to between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m., outlaws any such activity in parking lots and within 25ft of building entrances, and bans stickers, markers and spray paint from being used to mark university property, which includes sidewalks and lampposts.

Trustee Vivian Winston voted against the policy.

She tried unsuccessfully to change a passage that allows the university to immediately suspend violators from campus.

I think that they're being treated as guilty until proven innocent and and that doesn't go along with our law in the United States, where you're innocent until proven guilty.

The policy passed 6 to 3.

It went into effect August 1st and, Jon Schwantes, as we've been talking a lot about the situation, are you as our resident?

I don't know.

I don't want to say IU spokesman.

But does this make the situation that IU better?

You know, under Coach Cignetti, the football team I think could go, great football season.

That's what I'm focusing on.

Let's start with the positive.

I think this policy came from good intentions.

That's the only thing I'm going to stay positive.

I think it's a desire.

A desire for clarity, certainly.

maybe.

But all it does is create ill will and mistrust and distrust and a sense of us versus them before school even starts.

I just think it sends the wrong message, especially for a renowned institution or one institution that celebrates free speech.

And I know you can say we're doing this because we support free speech.

Give me a break.

there are problems here.

And again, I think as a practical matter, let's look at the parameters of time.

The First Amendment doesn't take a break, necessarily.

Yes.

You can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater.

I know I'll hear that argument, but does this.

There's no difference in my mind between this and saying you can pray as a student certain hours in the day, or go to church on a Sunday or Saturday or maybe Wednesday evening for some services, because you can express your opinions in those hours, ain't going to happen.

Another problem is that says we're going to be content neutral.

They have to make decisions.

Look at IU Dance Marathon, which goes all night to raise money to fight cancer.

What if somebody says, I want to do the same thing all night in a facility, and we're going to raise money for children in Gaza and Palestinian children?

Or if it says no banners, symbols, flags flying, does that mean that, an American flag or a pride flag can't fly out of someone's dorm window temporarily?

Or the flag for the IU football or.

The IU football team and they say you can only have these displays at events in conjunction with events that are university sanctioned.

So there's another neutral problem.

The tailgate field South of of the stadium.

This one says beat Purdue.

You know Rose Bowl bound.

This one says you know, take the money out of, you know, coffers of businesses that support violence in, in the Gaza.

Somebody's got to make a judgment call.

You can't just say messages or messages.

It's just untenable.

Beyond all that you have the problems with the threat of criminal prosecution for visitors.

I mean, students will get screwed, and faculty who already are upset are going to get screwed.

But visitors say, I go down there and I might engage in some protest, which is my right.

I better choose the jurisdiction where there's a prosecutor who, like Mark.

Monroe County prosecutor, says these charges and arrests were constitutionally questionable.

You probably do it in Indianapolis.

You can probably do it in Bloomington.

Pick your other campuses wisely.

Some prosecutors might not be so kind.

Theoretically, university leaders were trying to set up this policy to solve problems before they came up, because obviously what happened the last several months on campus didn't look good for for the university and its leadership with this policy.

Are they creating more problems for themselves?

I think they are absolutely creating more problems for themselves.

When you look at institutions of higher learning around the world and from the beginning of time, these are areas where free speech, free thought, collaboration are encouraged.

And frankly, it is what has helped us be the nation that we are today, for better or worse, depending on what perspective you're coming from.

But it is one of the tenets of what it means to live in America and to be an American.

So to see, the response, because it is absolutely in response to a very specific type of protest.

And I think that is where the problem comes in.

if you're going to, you know, target a very specific group, these students nowadays, this generation, they are not the type to back down.

So if it's a fight that IU wants, then it's absolutely a fight that they're going to get.

Where their parents like this phrase.

God bless you.

I'm I'm sorry.

Yeah.

That's what college is for.

If there's one place if there's one place where you should be able to protest, it feels like a college.

There was one single person in that camp agrees with anything.

I think, but.

All right, let's let's let's end on a lighthearted note.

The Indiana State Fair kicks off this weekend.

New attractions this year include a celebration of the Beatles, 60 years after they performed at the state fairgrounds, an outdoor movie theater, an Olympic zone and duck swimming races.

Laura Beck should the Gaming Commission allow me to wager on the duck races?

You always give me these questions.

Yes.

On infrequently.

wait.

Im the moderate.

You could talk about the ducks.

Should I be telling you?

I mean, I probably spend all my time in the dairy barn.

That's a good plan So I will miss that.

But, you know, if it can add some more revenue to our surplus, why not?

Should I be able to wager on the duck races?

Cause you know why?

It's might should be legal.

We're going to do it anyway.

You might as well.

Yeah, that's right.

Money changing hands behind the scenes of the duck race.

Meanwhile, I'm focused on the Dill Pickle pizza.

That is what I am so ready for.

Pickle guy.

Yeah, I asked the governor.

I asked if what he was on his bucket list for his final fare as governor.

He said the Kool-Aid infused pickles and the peanut butter and jelly chicken wings.

So that's a fun...

The pickle Is is something that we love.

And I have to eat.

His last state fair as governor.

That might be back to me in a week interview for this week.

Our panel is Democrat Laura Beck, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes of Indiana lawmakers and Ebony Chappel of Free Press, Indiana.

You can find Indiana Week interviews, podcast and episodes at wfie.org/twitter or on the PBS app.

I'm Brandon Smith of Indiana Public Broadcasting.

Join us next time because a lot can happen in an Indiana week.

The opinions expressed are solely those of the.

Indiana Week in Review is a WFYI production in association with Indiana's public broadcasting stations.