[EPIC MUSIC] - HELLO AND WELCOME TO COMIC CULTURE.

I'M TERENCE DOLLARD, A PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF MASS COMMUNICATION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT PEMBROKE.

MY GUEST TODAY IS LEGENDARY WRITER, ARTIST, MIKE GRELL.

MIKE, WELCOME BACK TO COMIC CULTURE.

- THANKS TERENCE, GOOD TO BE BACK.

- MIKE, I WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR CAREER.

YOU ARE A RATHER INTERESTING PERSON.

YOU START OFF DOING SOME SUPER HEROIC WORK, LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, SOME GREEN ARROW STORIES.

YOU BEGIN YOUR OWN CREATOR OWNED SERIES, STAR SLAYER.

YOU MOVE OVER TO FROM SCIENCE FICTION AND SUPER HEROICS, YOU MOVE OVER TO SORT OF STREET LEVEL ACTION WITH JOHN SABLE FREELANCE.

AND THEN YOU SORT OF COMBINE THAT ALTOGETHER WITH YOUR RUN ON GREEN ARROW AT DC COMICS.

AND IN BETWEEN THERE SOMEWHERE YOU WERE A SYNDICATED CARTOONIST.

SO I'M WONDERING, HOW DO YOU SORT OF GO FROM GENRE TO DIFFERENT GENRE, DIFFERENT STYLES TO DIFFERENT STYLES AND SORT OF MAKE IT WORK FOR YOU AS A STORYTELLER AND ARTIST?

- WELL, THE GENRE AND THE STYLE, THAT'S SORT OF EVOLUTIONARY.

THE GENRE IN PARTICULAR HAS MORE TO DO WITH HOW THE ASSIGNMENTS FALL.

I WAS FORTUNATE WHEN I STARTED IN COMICS, MY FIRST ASSIGNMENT WAS AQUAMAN.

AND FROM THERE, IT LED TO SOME BACK-UP STORIES ACTUALLY, I DID A SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, WHICH GOT ME THOROUGHLY INDOCTRINATED INTO THE GUYS IN THE SKIN TIGHT SUITS.

BUT THEN I DID SOME BACKUP STORIES FOR GREEN ARROW, GREEN LANTERN SEPARATELY, AND THEN JOINTLY WITH THE GREEN LANTERN, GREEN ARROW COMIC.

I ALSO DID THE WARLORD FOR DC, WHICH WAS MY OWN CREATION.

AND THAT WAS REALLY ME DOING WHAT I WANTED TO DO.

I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT WOULD SATISFY MY LUST FOR HIGH ADVENTURE, I WAS ALWAYS A BIG EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS FAN.

AND THAT GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY, PARTICULARLY IN THE WARLORD, TO DO A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF STORIES BECAUSE HE LIVES IN A WORLD AT THE CENTER OF THE EARTH WHERE IT'S ALWAYS HIGH NOON.

THERE'S NEVER BEEN A ICE AGE SO IT'S ALWAYS TROPICS, SO DINOSAURS NEVER DIED OUT, THERE WAS NEVER A CATASTROPHIC EVENT LIKE A COMET STRIKING THE EARTH ON THE OUTSIDE, NEVER HAPPENED ON THE INSIDE.

SO EVERYTHING WORKS DOWN THERE.

SCIENCE FICTION, MAGIC WORKS, I COULD DO ANY KIND OF STORY I WANTED WITH THE WARLORD.

BEYOND THAT, WHEN I MADE THE SWITCH OVER, FIRST TO STAR SLAYER, STAR SLAYER WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED AS A COUNTERPART TO THE WARLORD.

HE WAS A PRIMITIVE MAN IN A ULTRA FUTURISTIC SOCIETY, AS OPPOSED TO THE WARLORD WHICH IS A MODERN DAY MAN IN A VERY ANCIENT SOCIETY.

THEN FROM THERE I GOT THE PHONE CALL FROM MY EDITOR PALL, MIKE GOLD, WHO'S BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN SO MUCH OF MY CAREER.

HE WAS PART OF THE NEWLY FORMED FIRST COMICS OUT OF CHICAGO, AS IN FIRST COMICS, THEN DRUGS, THEN THE BABYSITTER WINDS UP IN THE FREEZER, THAT SORT OF THING.

WE NEVER GOT TO THE BABYSITTER IN THE FREEZER PART, BUT THEY GAVE ME CARTE BLANCHE TO DO ESSENTIALLY WHAT I WANTED.

ANY KIND OF STORY, ANY SUBJECT MATTER, ANYTHING AT ALL, AND THAT'S HOW I CAME UP WITH SABLE.

SABLE REFLECTS MY LIFELONG INTEREST, PASSION, FOR AFRICA, AGAIN, HEARKENING BACK TO EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS.

BUT ALSO BECAUSE I GREW UP IN A PART OF THE COUNTRY, NORTHERN WISCONSIN, A HUNDRED MILES NORTH TO GREEN BAY, EH?

WHERE THE OVERALL ECONOMY OF THE AREA WAS SO DEPRESSED.

DURING THE KENNEDY ADMINISTRATION, WE WERE TIED FOR FIRST WITH APPALACHIA FOR THE MOST DEPRESSED AREA IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND IF YOUR DAD DIDN'T HUNT, YOU DIDN'T EAT MEAT, THAT'S ALL THERE WAS TO IT.

SO I LEARNED TO BE A HUNTER, LEARNED TO REALLY LOVE THE OUTDOORS.

AND I WAS LOOKING FOR THE KIND OF HIGH ACTION STORY THAT WOULD DRAW OUT THE BEST IN ME IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO CREATE THE STORYLINES, BUT ALSO INSPIRE ME TO DO MY BEST ARTWORK.

AND AT THAT SAME TIME COMES TO THE BIG ARC EPIPHANY, MY NUMBER TWO OF TWO.

WHEN YOU START OUT YOU ALWAYS THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, AND THEN EVENTUALLY YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OF INTELLIGENCE AND YOU REALIZE YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING.

MARK TWAIN SAID, HE LEFT HOME WHEN HE WAS 16 BECAUSE HIS FATHER WAS A DAMN FOOL, AND HE RETURNED AT 21 AND WAS SURPRISED TO HEAR HOW MUCH THE OLD BOY HAD LEARNED IN JUST FIVE SHORT YEARS.

IN MY CASE, MY FIRST ART EPIPHANY WAS WHEN I WAS IN SAIGON IN 1970.

A FELLA CAME FROM THE UNITED STATES, ED SAVAGE IS HIS NAME, GREAT COMIC BOOK NAME, I DON'T KNOW WHY HE'S NOT A COMIC BOOK HERO.

MAYBE IF I GET AROUND TO IT, EVENTUALLY HE WILL BE.

ED HAD A SMALL STACK OF HIS FAVORITE COMIC BOOKS WITH HIM AND IN THERE WAS GREEN LANTERN, GREEN ARROW BY DENNY O'NEIL, NEIL ADAMS, DICK GIORDANO, AND JEAN COLIN'S RUN ON DAREDEVIL WITH TOM PALMER.

AND I WAS FLABBERGASTED.

COMICS HAD GROWN UP, CHANGED SO DRAMATICALLY FROM THE TIME I WAS A KID, THAT I DECIDED RIGHT THEN AND THERE THAT THAT'S THE KIND OF STUFF THAT I WANTED TO DO, BUT AIMING AT COMIC STRIPS, NOT COMIC BOOKS.

I ALWAYS HAD A YEN TO DO A COMIC STRIP.

MANAGED TO GET FANTASTICALLY LUCKY WHEN DENNY O'NEIL CALLED ME UP AND TOLD ME THAT HE AND GIL KANE WERE LEAVING THE CHARLES COMIC STRIP AND, WOULD I MIND IF THEY RECOMMENDED ME FOR THE JOB?

WOULD I MIND?

IT WAS LIKE A DREAM JOB FOR ME.

BUT IN TERMS OF STYLE, EARLY ON IN MY CAREER I TRIED TO BE AS CLOSE TO NEIL ADAMS AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THE FACTS ARE REAL SIMPLE, EVERY ERA, EVERY DECADE REALLY, HAS A DEFINITIVE STYLE.

IN THE FORTIES AND THE FIFTIES IT WAS JACK KIRBY, IN THE SIXTIES IT WAS JOHN ROMITA AND GIL KANE AND JOHN BUSCEMA, THOSE GUYS FROM OVER AT MARVEL, AND IN THE SEVENTIES, NEIL'S STYLE BASICALLY DEFINED THAT WHOLE ERA.

IF YOU WANTED TO GET A JOB, BEING ABLE TO DRAW IN THAT STYLE, OR SOMETHING RESEMBLING IT, WAS REALLY THE BEST SURE-FIRE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

AND I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO DO SORT OF A HALF-ASSED VERSION THAT LOOKED CLOSE ENOUGH TO SATISFY THE EDITORS.

AND THAT CONTINUED ON FOR A WHILE UNTIL I BEGAN DOING SABLE.

AND IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE COVER FOR SABLE ISSUE NUMBER ONE, AND THEN COMPARE THAT TO THE COVER FOR ISSUE NUMBER TWO, IT'S NIGHT AND DAY.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT I HAD COME OFF THE SKIN TIGHT SUPERHEROS AND EVERYTHING MUSCLE BOUND AND ALL THAT STUFF.

I WAS LOOKING FOR A NEW WAY TO HANDLE WHAT I WAS DRAWING.

AND IN THAT TIME PERIOD BETWEEN THOSE TWO COVERS, ACTUALLY DRAWN ABOUT SIX WEEKS APART, I BOUGHT TWO BOOKS.

ONE WAS CALLED, THE MAGIC PEN OF JOSEPH CLEMENT COLL, C O L L. HE WAS A TURN OF THE CENTURY ILLUSTRATOR WHO DID AMAZING DETAILED PEN WORK, INCREDIBLE TEXTURE LINE WORK.

HE COULD DO A PAGE THAT A FULL RANGE OF GRAY TONES, FROM BRIGHT WHITE TO SOLID BLACK, AND ONLY WORKING WITH A PEN, ONLY WORKING WITH BLACK INK.

AND THE OTHER BOOK THAT I BOUGHT WAS CALLED, THE PENCIL BY PAUL CALLE, C A L L E. CALLE DID WITH A PENCIL WHAT COLL DID WITH A PEN, VERY DETAILED, VERY TEXTURE, INCREDIBLE ILLUSTRATION.

AND IT WAS LIKE A LIGHT BULB SWITCHED ON IN MY BRAIN, LIKE, AH, I FINALLY GET IT.

UP UNTIL THEN I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT I ALWAYS ENJOYED BERNIE WRIGHTSONS ART, BUT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

AND THAT EPIPHANY HELPED ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON, THE REASON BEHIND ALL OF THIS, AND THAT CHANGE FOLLOWED ME ON THROUGH THE REST OF MY CAREER.

AS AN ARTIST, YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE TO GROW AND CHANGE, ADAPT, CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, ACTUALLY THE BEST ADVICE I COULD OFFER AN ARTIST IS, DON'T COPY ANYTHING ANYBODY ELSE IS DOING.

GET OUT THERE AND BLAZE A TRAIL, BREAK NEW GROUND, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE JUST FOLLOWING THE REST OF THE PACK, YOU'RE ALREADY THREE YEARS BEHIND, FIVE YEARS BEHIND.

YOU NEED TO BE OUT THERE DOING THINGS.

IF SOMEBODY TELLS YOU, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, YOU SHOULD GO, WATCH ME.

JUST WATCH ME.

WHEN I BREACHED ISSUE NUMBER 19 OF SABLE, I HAD ACQUIRED A PIECE OF ART FROM A FRIEND OF MINE, HER NAME IS BONNIE SHIELDS AND SHE WAS KNOWN AS THE TENNESSEE MULE ARTIST, MULE, M U L E. SHE SPECIALIZED IN GREAT DRAWINGS OF MULES, GREAT DETAILED DRAWINGS OF MULES.

AND I ACQUIRED A PIECE OF HER ART THAT WAS DRAWN ON FROSTED MYLAR IN PENCIL, AND THE LINES WERE SO CLEAN, SO CRISP, THAT I DECIDED I WANTED TO TRY AND DO THAT.

AND I DEDUCED THAT IF YOU HAD A DECENT PHOTOCOPIER YOU COULD TAKE THAT CLEAN PENCIL LINE, COPY IT WITH HIGH CONTRAST, AND YOU'D GET SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE AN INK LINE.

SO FOR A LONG TIME I REPRODUCED ALL OF MY STUFF FROM THE PENCIL.

AND THEN I BEGAN EXPERIMENTING WITH MORE TEXTURE, A LITTLE BIT LOOSER STYLE.

AND YOU KNOW, IT'S A CONSTANT EVOLUTION.

IF YOU DON'T CONTINUE TO GROW, YOU STAGNATE AND WHEN YOU STAGNATE, THE SOUND THAT YOU HEAR, THAT PITTER PATTER, THAT THUNDER OF HOOVES, IS THE NEXT YOUNG GUY COMING UP BEHIND YOU ABOUT TO RUN UP YOUR BACKSIDE AND TRAMPLE YOU INTO THE DIRT AS HE PASSES YOU BY.

EVERYBODY ASKS ME IF I WORK DIGITAL AND MY ANSWER IS, I'M STRICTLY AN ANALOG GUY, BUT I DO HAVE SOME MEDIOCRE PHOTOSHOP SKILLS.

AND I'M ACTUALLY ABLE TO TAKE A PENCIL DRAWING THAT'S PENCIL CLEAN, IT HAS TO BE CLEAN AND SHARP, AND YOU UNFORTUNATELY HAVE TO WORK FROM THE UPPER LEFT TO THE BOTTOM RIGHT, YOU CAN'T JUST WORK ALL OVER THE PAGE AS THE INSPIRATION STRIKES YOU.

AND YOU DO HAVE TO RENDER IN THE SAME FASHION YOU WOULD AS IF YOU WERE DRAWING WITH A PEN, BUT THE COMBINATION OF A PENCIL AND 10 MINUTES IN PHOTOSHOP, I CAN MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I INKED IT AND THAT SAVES AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME.

IT TAKES ABOUT 25 TO 30% LONGER TO PENCIL, BUT YOU SAVE HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS OF INKING TIME AND IN A BUSINESS WHERE PIECEWORK IS EVERYTHING, THAT WAS A REAL BOON FOR ME.

SO, RAMBLING ON AND ON AND ON, YOUR TURN.

- I WAS GOING TO SAY, IT'S INTERESTING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR EVOLUTION THROUGHOUT JOHN SABLE FREELANCE, WHICH IS BY FAR ONE OF MY FAVORITE SERIES OF ALL TIME.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE BOOKS THAT, WHEN I CAME ACROSS AN ISSUE IT MADE ME GO AND BUY ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT I COULD FIND.

AND IT WAS ONE OF THOSE GREAT, GOING TO A CONVENTION OR A COMIC SHOP LOOKING IN THEIR LONG BOXES AND SEE IF I COULD FIND ANOTHER ISSUE OF, OF JOHN SABLE FREELANCE.

AND WHEN I PARED DOWN MY COLLECTION, I MADE SURE THAT I KEPT THOSE ISSUES BECAUSE THEY MEAN SO MUCH TO ME.

AND IT HAD A BIG INFLUENCE ON ME BECAUSE IT WAS NOT THE STANDARD FARE OF THE 1980S, WHICH WAS WHAT KIND OF SETS YOU APART.

YOU WERE ABLE TO, I GUESS, LOOK INTO THE ZEITGEISTS OF THE TIMES, AND YOU HAD SORT OF THIS ACTION ADVENTURE STRIP THAT WAS DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING MARVEL OR DC WAS PRODUCING.

AND THEN WHEN YOU DID GO BACK TO DC, YOU SORT OF ADAPTED THEIR SUPERHERO, GREEN ARROW, TO FIT INTO THIS MORE REALISTIC WORLD.

SO AS A WRITER AND YOU START TO WORK ON THESE CHARACTERS, HOW DO YOU SORT OF, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT WHERE YOU ARE TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, AND HOW FAR OUT ARE YOU KIND OF PLOTTING THAT LINE?

OR IS IT JUST, YOU KNOW, GOSH, I'M GOING TO GO AND FOLLOW THE NEWS.

- YOU DON'T EXACTLY MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG, EVEN THOUGH YOU DO.

IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE A ROADMAP, AN IDEA OF WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS THING SO THAT YOU KNOW IF YOU'VE STRAYED OFF PATH.

IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I ENJOYED WORKING WITH MIKE GOLD AS MY EDITOR, BECAUSE GOLD KNEW HOW TO PUSH MY BUTTONS AND GET THE BEST OUT OF ME.

AND HE WOULD ALSO KEEP ME STRAIGHT, KEEP ME FROM WANDERING OFF INTO LALA LAND, SOMEPLACE.

ALL THAT STARTED WITH THE GREEN ARROW, THOUGH.

LONG BOW HUNTERS STARTED WITH A PHONE CALL FROM MIKE GOLD, WHO SAID, IS THERE ANY CHARACTER OVER HERE THAT YOU LIKE WELL ENOUGH TO BURY THE HATCHET AND COME BACK TO WORK AT DC?

AND AFTER I TALKED ABOUT BATMAN, WHAT A CRAPPY JOB I HAD DONE BACK IN THE SEVENTIES.

AND I ALWAYS FIGURED I'D LIKE TO GET ANOTHER SHOT AT THE CHARACTER.

BUT I HAD JUST HAD DINNER WITH FRANK MILLER MAYBE A WEEK OR SO BEFORE AND FRANK TOLD ME HIS IDEA FOR THE DARK NIGHT.

AND I TOLD MIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE FRANK'S DONE WITH DARK NIGHT YOU CAN PUT A PERIOD AT THE END OF THE BATMAN SENTENCE FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

AND SO FAR, I'M OFF BY WHAT, 15 YEARS AND COUNTING.

AND HE SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT GREEN ARROW?

AND I TOLD HIM THE TRUTH WHICH IS, GREEN ARROW HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY FAVORITE COMIC BOOK CHARACTER FROM THE TIME I WAS A LITTLE KID, AND STILL IS.

I LIKE THE WAY HE'S BEEN PORTRAYED, PARTICULARLY BY DENNY WHEN HE WAS TEAMED UP WITH GREEN LANTERN.

BECAUSE IN GREEN LANTERN YOU HAD THE SHERIFF, HE'S THE LETTER OF THE LAW, HE'S LIKE JUDGE DREAD, "I AM THE LAW."

BUT IN GREEN ARROW, HE HAD THIS SPIRIT OF JUSTICE.

GREEN ARROW IS BASICALLY ROBIN HOOD.

SO, KNOWING WHERE I CAME FROM AND EVERYTHING ELSE GOLD SAID, THINK ABOUT THIS, GREEN ARROW AS AN URBAN HUNTER.

AND THAT WAS THE SPARK THAT LIT THE FOREST FIRE.

THAT THAT WAS THE KICKOFF POINT FOR EVERYTHING.

AND AGAIN, I WAS GIVEN CARTE BLANCHE TO DO WHATEVER I WANTED, BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN YOU SHOULD DO ANYTHING YOU WANT.

FOR INSTANCE, I CHANGED THE COSTUME FOR PRACTICAL REASONS.

PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT WAS I WANTED TO MOVE HIM INTO THE REAL WORLD, AWAY FROM THE MYTHICAL STAR CITY.

I PUT HIM IN SEATTLE BECAUSE I WAS LIVING THERE AT THE TIME.

I'M A SMALL TOWN GUY FROM A DINKY LITTLE TOWN IN NORTHERN WISCONSIN, I HAD ONLY LIVED IN OR AROUND TWO CITIES IN MY LIFE, CHICAGO, WHERE I WENT TO ART SCHOOL, AND NEW YORK WHERE I BROKE INTO THE COMIC BUSINESS.

I HAD ALREADY USED NEW YORK AS A SETTING FOR SABLE AND SO I WANTED SOMETHING THAT I COULD MAKE REAL.

BECAUSE FACE IT, THE CITY YOUR CHARACTER LIVES IN IS ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IN YOUR STORY.

IT DEFINES THE NATURE OF THE STORY.

YOU CAN'T HAVE SNOW STORMS IN BEVERLY HILLS, WELL YOU CAN BUT IT'D BE PROBABLY A SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE AT THE VERY LEAST.

AND SO THAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE CHANGE IN THE COSTUME.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOTICED, BUT IT TENDS TO RAIN A BUNCH IN SEATTLE SO, TIGHTS AND BEAR ARMS JUST DOESN'T CUT IT.

SO I PUT A PROPER SHIRT ON HIM AND PANTALOONS AS OPPOSED TO LEOTARDS AND PUT THE HOOD ON BECAUSE IT RAINS A LOT.

AND THAT LITTLE ROBIN HOOD CAP IS NOT GOING TO KEEP IT OFF YOUR HEAD.

AND THE OTHER CHANGES THAT I MADE, OF COURSE, I STARTED HIM SHOOTING PEOPLE FOR REAL, BECAUSE EVEN ROBIN HOOD KILLED PEOPLE WHEN THEY REALLY THOROUGHLY DESERVED IT.

THAT LED ME TO GETTING RID OF THOSE SILLY TRICK ARROWS, THE FANCY BOW THAT JUST MAGICALLY POPS OPEN WHEN HE PULLS IT OUT OF HIS QUIVER, NO, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

A POWERFUL BOWL TAKES SOME SERIOUS MUSCLE IN ORDER TO STRING IT.

IT WOULD BE HANDY IF YOU COULD DO THAT, BUT IT JUST ABSOLUTELY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

SO I WENT BACK TO THE OLD TRADITIONAL LONGBOW.

I HAPPENED TO HAVE SEVERAL BOWS THAT WERE MADE BY HOWARD HILL, THE GUY WHO DID ALL THE TRICK SHOOTING FOR THE ROBIN HOOD MOVIE, AND I INCORPORATED HILL INTO THE LONGBOW HUNTERS.

I EVEN HAVE ONE OF HILL'S ARROWS, COURTESY OF A GENTLEMAN WHO WAS PASSING A COMIC SHOP IN SAN FRANCISCO ONE DAY WHO SAW THE POSTER OF THE LONGBOW HUNTERS IN THE WINDOW, TRACKED ME DOWN AND, AFTER HAVING READ THE BOOK AND SEEING THE TRIBUTE TO HOWARD HILL IN THERE, VERY GRACIOUSLY SENT ME ONE OF HIS SOUVENIRS THAT HE HAD GOTTEN FROM HILL ON A HUNT THAT THEY HAD DONE OFF CATALINA ISLAND YEARS AND YEARS AGO.

SO THAT'S HANGING ON THE WALL, A PRIZE TROPHY.

WITH THOSE KINDS OF CHANGES IN MIND, THAT'S ALL THE VISUAL AND THE GENERAL BACKGROUND STUFF.

THE PRINCIPAL CHANGES THAT I MADE THOUGH, WERE IN TERMS OF THE STORYLINE, HOW THE CHARACTERS WERE PRESENTED AND THE CHANGES THAT CAME ABOUT IN THEIR LIVES.

MY OVER REACHING STORY ARC FOR THE ENTIRE GREEN ARROW SERIES, IT'S A LOVE STORY BETWEEN ALI AND DINAH.

IT JUST IS, START TO FINISH.

THESE PEOPLE HAVE ONE OF THE GREAT ROMANCES IN COMICS UNTIL THEY SCREWED IT UP BY GETTING MARRIED, YOU KNOW, JUMPING THE SHARK.

IT DIDN'T WORK FOR REMINGTON STEELE, IT DIDN'T WORK FOR MOONLIGHTING, IT DIDN'T WORK FOR MAGNUM PI, WHAT THE HELL MADE THEM THINK IT WAS GOING TO WORK FOR GREEN ARROW AND BLACK CANARY?

- IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE PERSONALITY OF GREEN ARROW BEFORE THE LONGBOW HUNTERS, HE'S ALWAYS SORT OF THE ANGRY YOUNG MAN.

AND AFTER A WHILE IT SORT OF RINGS HOLLOW BECAUSE HE'S A GUY WHO IS ALWAYS ANGRY, BUT HE'S HANGING OUT WITH SUPERMAN, AND THE REST OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE AND, WHY CAN'T HE BEND THEIR EAR AND MAYBE GET THEM TO, YOU KNOW, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT POLLUTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

AND YOU KIND OF TOOK HIM AWAY FROM THE REST OF THE DC UNIVERSE AND GAVE HIM, I GUESS, THE GRELL VERSE, I THINK JULIE SCHWARTZ CALLED IT THAT.

AND YOU KNOW, YOU SORT OF- - YEAH, HE CALLED IT EARTH GRELL.

ELLIOT MEGAN SAID, "WHAT THE HELL IS ON EARTH GRELL?"

AND JULIE SAID, "HIM."

- SO WHEN YOU TAKE ALI AWAY FROM ALL OF THAT, AND YOU PUT HIM IN THIS MORE GROUNDED WORLD, IT CERTAINLY GAVE US SOME MORE INTERESTING STORIES AND CHARACTERS THAN WE HAD SEEN FOR YEARS.

SO WHEN YOU'RE BUILDING THAT SUPPORTING CAST, AND I KNOW WE HAVE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES OR SO LEFT IN OUR CONVERSATION, BUT WHEN WE'RE BUILDING THOSE OTHER CHARACTERS, YOU'VE GOT THE CIA THAT COMES IN, YOU'VE GOT, WELL, HAL JORDAN COMES IN AND HE'S NOT DRESSED IN HIS TRADITIONAL COSTUME.

SO HOW DO YOU SORT OF WORK IN THE HISTORY OF THE CHARACTER WITH THIS NEW DIRECTION AND THESE NEW CHARACTERS THAT YOU'RE CREATING TO BUILD HIS, HIS UNIVERSE?

- I IGNORED IT.

I BASICALLY IGNORED THE CONTINUITY.

IN THE WORLD WHERE ALL OF OLIVER QUEEN LIVES IN SEATTLE, NOT STAR CITY, THERE ARE NO SUPERPOWERS.

THERE'S NO SUPERHEROES, NO SUPERVILLAINS, IT'S REAL WORLD DEALING WITH REAL WORLD PROBLEMS.

A LOT OF MY STORYLINES CAME STRAIGHT FROM THE NEWSPAPERS.

EVERYTHING FROM GAY BASHING TO, THE GENERAL OVERARCHING PLOT OF THE LONGBOW HUNTERS HAD TO DO WITH A DRUGS FOR GUNS CIA PLOT.

I GOT A PHONE CALL FROM A RADIO STATION IN NEW YORK ASKING ME IF I'D BE WILLING TO COME ON THE AIR AND TALK ABOUT HOW I MANAGED TO BEAT THAT WHOLE STORY INTO PRINT, THE IRAN CONTRA STORY, INTO PRINT BY SIX MONTHS.

I SAID, SURE, AND I TOLD THEM THE TRUTH.

I HAD MY PLOT THAT I HAD COME UP WITH, AND THEN IT'S ALL INSPIRED BY THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON IN THE REAL WORLD.

AND THEN ALL I DID WAS PLUG IN ALL THESE CHARACTERS AND ASK MYSELF, WHAT WOULD BE THE STUPIDEST THING THEY COULD POSSIBLY DO IF THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THEY'D NEVER GET CAUGHT, AND THAT'S WHAT I WROTE.

LIFE MIMICS ART, I MEAN, IT'S JUST FUNNY SOMETIMES.

- NOW, MIKE, THEY'RE TELLING ME THAT WE HAVE JUST UNDER THREE MINUTES, AND I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T MENTION THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY REMASTERING JOHN SABLE INTO AN OMNIBUS, AND YOU'RE RECOLORING SOME OF THOSE PAGES, IF PEOPLE WANTED TO FIND OUT ABOUT THIS PROJECT OR ANY OF THE OTHER PRODUCTS THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON, IS THERE A PRESENCE ON THE WEB THAT THEY CAN FIND YOU AT?

- YOU CAN FIND ME ON MIKEGRELL.COM.

THERE IS A FACEBOOK, AN AUTHORIZED FACEBOOK PAGE.

I DON'T DO FACEBOOK.

I NEVER SEE IT, THAT'S HANDLED BY MY WEBMASTER.

BUT HIS POSTINGS THERE ARE ALL CURRENT.

SO CHECK IT OUT, MIKEGRELL.COM.

- AND AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE OR SO LEFT.

IS THERE A PROJECT THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON OTHER THAN THE JOHN SABLE REMASTERING THAT WE CAN LOOK FORWARD TO?

- OH YES.

MAGGIE THE CAT, I'M RAMPING UP THAT THE WHOLE STORY ARC WITH ANOTHER, WE'LL BE LAUNCHING A KICKSTARTER BEFORE TOO LONG.

I HAVE A COUPLE OF NOVELS IN THE WORKS, INCLUDING ONE CALLED SAVAGE EMPIRE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY BASED ON THE COMIC STRIP THAT SERVED AS THE INSPIRATION FOR THE WARLORD.

- WELL, MIKE, THEY'RE TELLING US THAT WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR SCHEDULE TO TALK WITH ME TODAY.

IT'S BEEN A TREAT.

- ANYTIME.

AND IF YOU HAVE ANY FOLLOWUPS, DON'T HESITATE.

- I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYONE AT HOME FOR WATCHING COMIC CULTURE.

WE WILL SEE YOU AGAIN SOON.

[EPIC MUSIC] COMIC CULTURE IS A PRODUCTION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF MASS COMMUNICATION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT PEMBROKE.

[EPIC MUSIC]