♪♪ - Mike Madrid has been identifying the rise of the Latino impact on American politics for over 30 years.

He joins us today to talk about his book, the Latino Century and the Current State of Politics today.

Mike, if I were to describe this book in one word, I would say brave.

You really put yourself out there and call it like you see it.

What inspired you to write this book?

- Well, I mean, that's a great question and thanks for what I would consider a compliment, Scott.

consider a compliment, Scott.

- It is.

- There -- our systems are broken in politics.

I think we're all keenly aware of that.

The challenge is, I don't think enough people who have been involved at the highest levels of the political parties have had the courage to say what we all know to be true, but also to kind of do the analysis and understanding of what it is that's driving the collapse of these two major institutions.

And so I wanted to to be one of those voices that was saying, this is coming, this is changing, this is transforming, and the way we live, operate, and make decisions.

It's gonna be radically different in the coming years.

- While you were acclaimed, not just nationally, but internationally as an expert on elections - Yeah.

- And the political process, you decided to stake your claim focusing on the Latino community.

Yeah.

Now that doesn't mean that that's all you do, 'cause we're gonna talk about some of the other stuff that you've done, like over in the Ukraine and - Oh, thank you for that.

Yeah.

- Places like that.

But - Yes.

- What made you decide to focus on the Latino community to the exclusion of what happens a lot of times with people of color who go into these types of professions?

- Yeah.

- And say, I just want to like be very, very broad and not go deep and specific, particularly in one's own community.

- It sounds like somebody has got some experience with that same sort of sentiment.

- You might say.

- I might say that that's a very keen, insightful question.

So that, that has always been a part of my career, is dealing with that balance between how much do I talk about this as an issue?

How much do I get pigeonholed?

Does that become a ceiling and or a floor?

The reality is we are, as a country, going to be a non-white majority country for the first time in our history in the next 10 to 12 years, this demographic transformation is unprecedented.

It will ever change Americanness and American identity, and it's gonna change the way we practice democracy.

So as a political professional, it became an imperative to say, this is one of the, the most significant changes that is happening in American society today.

And I, I chose to address it from that perspective, recognizing full well the sensitivity of what you just said, which is it's not just a niche area anymore.

It is becoming something far, far more significant.

And it will really change, I think the whole premise of what pluralism and democracy and multiracial society means.

- What fascinated me about this book, Mike, was, it, it almost seems as if your thesis is that the Latino community, and I... and I want to get to exactly who is the Latino community.

who is the Latino community.

- Yeah, yeah.

- 'cause that's... thats a matter of discussion as well - Yeah.

- But almost like the Latino community, however it's constituted is the canary in the cave for what is the emerging America.

- Yeah.

- Can you tell us a little bit about that?

- I can tell you a lot about it.

I mean, there's a lots to discuss, but basically what it means, and where I'm coming from with this is recognizing that the Latino identity is by its very definition a blended identity.

Latinos are literally half or part of the old world and half and part of the new world.

And this blended culture, this blended racial construct is what is emergent in really the entire globe, but specifically here in the United States of America.

And that brings with it, I believe, a lot of promise.

It's actually this demographic transformation is one of the very few things I'm very optimistic about in the world today, because it means we have the potential to be much more seamless in our actions as a people -- interactions.

And really it is Latinos who tend to be far more moderate and less polarized and less partisan than any other race or demographic in the country.

That's hopeful.

- Who exactly is the Latino community?

- Yeah.

- 'cause it, it is hard for, it may be easy for you, but for those of us who are not Latino - Yeah.

- To wrap our arms around exactly who's in and who's out.

- Well, and to be honest, I think there's a very legitimate question as to whether or not there actually is a thing as called a Latino and what that community means.

We've all heard it's kind of like a, you know, old, old, you know, trite saying now that the, the Latino community is not monolithic.

We are Cuban and Mexican and Venezuelan and Puerto Rican.

Those are all true.

We are first generation and some of our families have been here 600 years.

That's all true.

Some of us speak only Spanish English.

All of that diversity is all true.

But what I will say is there is a very strong common theme throughout, which is overwhelmingly Latinos constitute the non-white, blue collar working class that is rapidly emerging and filling the workplace right now.

So we have heard a lot in the course of the last few years about how the youth vote is changing, how the working class, non-college educated vote is changing.

How all of these different demographics are changing.

And the overlap of the concentric circles really points to this Latino community.

It's younger, it's less college educated.

It's the blue collar worker.

It's... it's non-white, at least ethnically.

And all of this is really, I think, boiling down to a dramatic change in who we are as Latinos, but also who we are as Americans.

- Well, let me try this out - Yeah.

- on you 'cause if for me, it's always kind of a mind twister to try and figure this out.

- Yeah.

- So I appreciated the book for trying to bring some clarity to it.

- Yeah.

- But I'm gonna throw a couple things at you.

Okay.

Number one, okay.

Chicano, hispanic, Latino, latinx, I don't know...

I don't know in what room I'm supposed to refer to anybody.

Okay.

So that, that's one confusing part.

The second is, is that it's my understanding, maybe you can correct me on the demographics, that there are actually kind of multi tiers in the Latino community where, for instance, college educated Latina women, okay?

Tend to not marry Latino men and over half tend to marry outside of the community.

- Correct.

- So what does that mean in terms of their kids and identification and all, all that sort of thing.

- Yeah.

- And then the final thing is, and I learned this when I was the CEO of the Nehemiah Corporation, is I went to do marketing in California and I took the same marketing down to South Florida and New York, and I got my head handed to me.

- Yeah.

- Because they said that was for that community.

- Yeah.

- Okay.

Which is predominantly Mexican - Yes.

- In California.

- Correct.

And the Cuban American community and the Puerto Rico -- Puerto Rican and Dominican community did not like the sensibility of my marketing.

- Yeah.

- So I throw all that at you because for many of us who are not in the community, it's kind of confusing for some of - For some of us inside the community it's kind of confusing.

But let me say this, I'm a very big believer as a political professional and as a human being, that you refer to people the way they choose to be referred to.

And they are very distinct differences between all of these communities.

That is absolutely true.

That's a big part of what I try to articulate in - - And so we don't get in trouble.

- Yeah.

- The ones I named are just a fraction of all the different communities.

[ Scott Laughs ] - Yeah.

It's, and growing.

Right?

And there... there's this... there's this, and... and look, I've been in Republican politics for 30 years.

There is this kind of sense broadly in the Republican party to say, why can't we just all be American?

Why can't we just drop the hyphen?

America's the one place you can only come to and everybody can become an American.

Well, that's quantifiably not true.

We know that from the history of a lot of peoples, that not everybody has an equal seat at the American table.

That's the mythology we want to believe.

It's one that I've ascribed to for most of my life.

But what I -- but the evidence is overwhelming.

It's just not... it's just not the case.

Let me say this though.

There are distinct differences.

And one of the reasons why we developed the term Hispanic came in the Nixon administration when we were trying to recognize or give, give voice to these disparate groups of people that spoke Spanish.

And when it was a small niche group, when it was one or 2% of the population, you could kind of get away with it.

I mean, who's gonna complain about it?

But now that it is rapidly becoming the largest -- it is the largest ethnic, you know, minority in the country and growing at a very rapid pace, all of these divergent different voices within the community are saying, wait a second, I'm Dominican.

I don't know anything about being Mexican American.

I'm Puerto Rican.

I know nothing about being Venezuelan.

All of which is true.

And we're gonna have to at some point, both recognize, and this is real, the real takeaway of the book, that we are both different and same at the same time.

And that is one of the unique characteristics of what we call Latinidad, Latino identification.

And it can be used to either bring the country together or to tear us further apart.

That's where it's incumbent upon Latinos, I think, to drive that future and talk about what makes you American going forward.

- When you say you're both different and the same at the same time.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- You make that sound so simple and so much of a no-brainer.

- Yeah.

- But at the same time in the book, you describe the fact that many of your peers within the political consulting and political slash policy world don't get that and consider the... the Latino population of this country, the other.

- Yes.

- Where does that come from, and do you see that changing?

- That's a great question.

And let me be really clear.

It's very much on both sides.

The Democrats, you know, I think have this orthodoxy that somehow they are a much more inclusive, tolerant community.

And at the same time, you're seeing people of color, broadly, Latinos specifically moving further and further away from them as they kind of, you know, promulgate some of those ideas and sentiments.

This really comes from demographic change.

It's inevitable.

It's impossible not to.

The leaders of our institutions overwhelmingly are white and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But in a state, in a country, in a communities that are becoming less white, very, very rapidly, the difference between the cultures, the communities, the sentiments, even the politics invariably, is gonna cause some sort of attention organizationally, that really describes America in 2025, at least this moment in time, is the tension of who is running and overseeing and who are the stewards of this country, and who are those that are emerging quickly and saying, this system does work for me in some ways, but it's really missing the market, so many others.

- So the Democrats, let's stick with the Democrats for a second.

- Yeah.

- The Democrats have historically taken it on -- just as an article of faith that the Latino vote was theirs.

- Yes.

Yeah.

-It belonged to them and that they would be as monolithic in terms of their affiliation as say, African Americans, have - Correct.

- been for the Democrats.

- Yes.

- Increasingly that is not true.

- Right.

- And what is happening is that it seems that every day that there's a surprise - Yes.

- Within the popular press as to how quickly Latinos are moving from their historic affiliation with Democrats to the Republicans.

What's behind that?

And how did the Democrats, how are the Democrats failing?

- Yeah.

- To keep a constituency that many would say it was theirs to lose in the first place.

- It's a great story, and it's central to not only the book, but also to what is happening at this moment in American history.

I smiled a little bit when you said how quickly it's happening.

As somebody who's been doing this for 30 years, it hasn't happened all that quickly.

The signs - - Okay, - The signs were there, but now that it's happening rapidly, people are finally clicking in and going, wait, what, what does this mean?

That's why I wrote the book at this moment in time, let's say... lemme say this, the orthodoxy of the Democratic party is based on two foundational principles.

The first is the belief that it is the party of the working class, and it is the party of non-white peoples.

Both of those are the two fastest constituencies moving to the Republican party at this point in time, and have been for the better part of a decade.

So what is going on?

Well, what's going on is that that foundational belief and principle was really cemented during the Obama administration.

When the political popularity of the idea of demographics being destiny would mean that all Democrats had to do was wait, and for demographic to change that Latinos, like African Americans would vote 70, 30, 85, 15 with the Democratic Party.

What we found is that class concerns, class pressures are far greater indicators for a culture and an ethnicity that is much more fluid than the African American communities is.

There's some very legitimate reasons for why the African commer American community votes as a block, as a racial block, the whole story of america is -- - But increasingly less so.

- Increasingly less so, but in a very much - Sure.

- smaller, shorter, longer pace.

And it's it, and again, what is driving African Americans away from the Democratic party are class pressures, class concerns?

It's affordability, it's the economy not working.

It's not necessarily a rejection of the, of the racial perspective of the party.

I'm sure there's some of that, but the data's pretty strong in saying, this economy just doesn't work for me anymore.

- But isn't that exactly what's driving, in fact, the Latino community, - Yeah.

- away from the Democratic party?

- Precisely.

- Quick little vignette for you.

- Yeah.

- Have a dear friend.

Dear friend owns a company.

- Yeah.

- Okay.

He came from Mexico, became a citizen.

Okay.

Has raised his family, has a beautiful family, a beautiful life, and is a big contributor to the economy.

Okay?

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- He is twisted up because of the fact that he no longer votes democratic.

- Yes.

- But at the same time, he's very concerned about some of the actions with ICE and with immigration.

- Yes.

- That he feels are almost like the equivalent of an extension of the great replacement correct argument - Correct.

- argument that happened back in - 2016, 2017.

- Right.

- So, I, you know, kind of walk us through how it is that those bread and butter issues are driving Latinos - Yeah.

- away from their historical home, but at the same time, some of what you buy when you buy that makes certain aspects of the community uncomfortable as well.

- So this is, that encapsulation that should be the cover of my book.

In some ways it is.

That story, that vignette is the perfect encapsulation of this conflicted voter stuck between two parties.

And what I mean by that is the economic concerns that this gentleman and his family have are no longer being met or addressed by the Democratic party.

He's very upwardly mobile, came as an immigrant, worked hard, played by the rules, saved, built a company, built a business that is trying to grow wealth along the trajectory of so many other immigrants of the past.

At the same time, he's also realizing the broader American mainstream does not accept me or my people, or my kind as fully American.

Both of those are encapsulated in the two sides of the parties at this moment in time.

And the tension that that voter feels that this friend of yours feels is exactly the moment that we as a community find ourselves in.

So when I say we are a blended community, it is that economic populism that speaks to us from where Republicans are at right now, but clearly viscerally rejecting the nativism that is pushing us away from that same party.

Conversely, the Democrats who may speak in a more tolerant tone and frame that is all fine and good, but it's not helping me pay the rent on Friday, and neither are the policies that you're promulgating.

So I'm very much stuck in the middle here.

- Also, it's implied, it's not really stated as directly some of your other points, but it's almost implied though, that the Democrats also are a bit patronizing in from the standpoint of, oh, you need us because we're going to help you.

And you know, with all, all of these, you know, traditional democratic supports, where it is that it, it seems like there's a streak of independence in the Latino community toward, you know, just remove the, the obstacles we'll do it for ourselves.

-Yeah.

- Can you speak to that?

- Sure.

- Am I imagining that or was it -- - Not at all No, and in fact, it shouldn't be that subtle.

I -- my feeling was I didn't bring it up more strenuously so that's very clear.

It's what a good friend of mine, LA Times columnist, Gustavo Arellano calls Rancho Libertarianism.

These are people that are rugged individuals who are trying to very much make it on their own as a cultural characteristic.

This mythology about immigrants coming here to get on the government's dole is just, you know, dispelled by the facts.

This is a very hardworking entrepreneurial people who are looking for nothing really more than economic opportunity and are generally finding it.

That is a cultural characteristic.

The hard work ethic, the type of work that we do is work that nobody else in the... in the... in the country will do.

We're finding that out with current labor shortages right now.

So, yeah.

Look, Scott, I believe that this type of rugged individualism is a central part, at least half of who we are.

But there is undoubtedly also this community characteristic that views the success of the individual only in light of the success of the broader family and of the community itself.

So, again, in many ways, this demographic, my community represents the tensions that both polarized, partisanized political parties, there's a lot of ps in there represent in America in this time, and we are emerging in a different way, right up the middle.

Again, if you look at the, if you poll Latino Republicans, they're the moderates.

If you poll Latino Democrats, they're the moderates.

They're focused almost entirely on economic and class issues.

And it's that core bread and butter messaging system that we need to get back to if there's gonna be any hope of getting the system back on the rails.

- I wanna...

I want to turn the conversation to not only your work and your observations, but the cost.

You were one of the founders of the Lincoln Project.

- Yeah.

- Which came out very strongly against Donald Trump back in 2016.

And what really was a big irritant to him.

What it -- what caused you to join that effort and become so committed to it?

Because you've paid a cost for that association.

- Very heavy toll.

Yeah.

Both personally, professionally, death threats to myself and my family, attacks on my business.

Yeah.

I could go on and on.

Look, the rise of Donald Trump, I think signifies a very dark moment in American history.

It's truly a radical transformation of everything from our basic core beliefs to the unwinding of the structures and our constitution as we've known it going forward.

It's a very challenging moment.

There's never for, since he came down that golden escalator, I was publicly speaking out and decrying this even when it wasn't taken seriously, I was saying, this is... this is a... a real cancer on our body politic.

We need to be mindful of this.

So I never wavered in my opposition to Donald Trump, and I'm proud of the work that I did in defeating him in 2020.

The only regret I have is that most of the people that I worked with, the vast majority in the Republican party, did not have the courage to do the same thing.

And what I'm really - They bent the knee - They bent the knee, they kissed the ring.

And I can't tell you how many calls I would get during the Lincoln Project from Republicans, Republican staffers, politicians, chiefs of staff calling saying, this is amazing.

Keep doing this.

We really need you to do this.

And I would say, I need your voice to come join the choir.

Join me.

And virtually to a person, they would say, well, no, I've got kids.

I've got a mortgage, I've got, you know, and I would say, well, I've got kids.

I've got a mortgage.

For me, politics has always been about principle.

This is not about a business.

But what I realized is for nearly everybody in it, it absolutely is a business.

It's a business that perpetuates itself.

These are systems on both sides of the aisle where there's an enormous amount of money made, an enormous amount of influence.

Power is the currency.

I'm not saying that I'm, you know, any better or worse than that, but I never entered this business to get wealthy.

I entered this business and dedicated my life to fighting for working class people.

And I think the real eye-opening moment for me was during the Lincoln Project, when it was so obvious what the right thing to do was.

But to be standing essentially alone amongst people that you worked alongside with for decades, was a real sharp contrast in what people were really motivated by.

- You talk about working alone.

- Yeah.

- You identify in the book -- you name names and tell truths.

- Yeah.

- Your truths.

And I was struck by you referenced Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy - Yeah.

- As three very prominent Republicans of color on the scene today.

And your view of them in terms of their association or, their movement from where they were politically, say four or five years ago to - Right.

- today.

- Yeah.

- You don't seem to have a lot of regard for them.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

- Yeah.

Let's throw Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz into there too.

I mean, there's a whole... whole litany of them.

Look, again, as a Latino, as a person of color who's worked in Republican politics for a long time, there is a lot of money and title to be had in the GOP if you are willing to be the face of what is this rising nativism, populism.

And I think that it's shameful because these are people who clearly know better.

They know exactly what they're doing.

And there's -- it is absolutely possible to be a person of color and to be a conservative.

Frederick Douglass is my greatest hero, probably the, the greatest truest conservative I think this country has ever produced.

Having said that, what we're not... we're not watching a conservative movement anymore.

This is a populist nationalist movement, which is antithetical to a pluralistic, multicultural society.

So to make your name and your fortune and title and to seek power by leveraging your identity to give cover to what is clearly, clearly dangerous to this country and to the communities that you came from, it's not only shameful, it's, it's a very pernicious development in... in what America's goal of being a, you know, our e pluribus unum mythology of being of... of from any one.

It's really designed, I think, to be far more divisive, but allow you to side with the.... with the dominant community that you're choosing to throw -- cast your lot with.

- And so much to talk about.

So much to cover, but we're gonna have to leave it there.

- Let's leave it there.

- Alright.

The book is The Latino Century by Mike Madrid.

Please give it a read.

It was one of the most fascinating books I've read in a while.

Thank you, Mike, and good luck on your work as you move forward.

- Thank you so much for having me.

Appreciate it.

- Alright.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guests and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time.

Right here on KVIE.

♪♪