[Man] This is a Milwaukee PBS Listen MKE special presentation.

- Hey Milwaukee, and welcome to another installment of Listen MKE titled Asian Americans speak out against hate and bigotry.

Thank you all for joining us.

My name is Teran Powell, and I'm the Race and Ethnicity Reporter at WUWM Milwaukee NPR.

Listen MKE is a partnership between WUWM the Ideas Lab at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Milwaukee PBS and the Milwaukee Public Library.

Today we're addressing an issue that has unfortunately always existed, but over the last year amid the COVID-19 pandemic has become more frequent and that's violence against Asian communities.

In early 2020, there was a flood of news about COVID-19 including that the virus first appeared in Wuhan China.

There were white government officials that called it the Chinese virus among other names blaming the country and its people for what was happening globally.

Some citizens have subsequently reacted violently toward all Asian people.

There are examples of this in cities across the country, including right here in Milwaukee and communities across Wisconsin.

And there's the latest attack against Asian people in the Atlanta area where a white man murdered eight people across three spots seven were women, six of them women of Asian descent.

Today we're gonna talk about the rise in anti-Asian discrimination.

I'm co moderating this conversation with my colleague Daphne Chen Data and Investigative Reporter at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

And we also have Dr. Chia Youyee Vang UWM Milwaukee Interim Chief Diversity Equity and Inclusion Officer and professor of history.

State Representative, Francesca Hong Wisconsin's first Asian-American state legislator and Lo Neng Kiatoukaysy Executive Director of the Hmong American Friendship Association.

And so now I'm gonna hand it over to Daphne to get us started with some questions.

- Yes, thank you Teran.

And thank you to our guests for being here in this space to process everything that has happened and has been happening.

I was hoping to maybe just share a little bit about myself and invite you guys to share a little bit about your background and what your identity being Asian or Asian American has meant to you all.

Just because for me it's not always been a comfortable identity.

I grew up the daughter of immigrants from China in Dallas Texas in a very white school and a little white suburb.

For me I think I leaned into the model minority myth for survival, for acceptance.

With my family, a lot of it has resulted in trying to reject that culture trying to reject that identity, being resentful of being sent to school with Chinese food for lunch or being resentful of having to learn Chinese.

And it took me a long time to grow into my identity and realize how much I'd given up to assimilate into American culture.

And so it was a little hard for me to process the shootings in Atlanta for all the rise in Asian-American violence this year for all of these reasons.

- I'll jump in.

Thank you so much for sharing that Daphne, I had a lot of what you said.

I was born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin and am proud daughter of Indian immigrants.

So I identify as Korean American and I think I too leaned into that model minority myth and achievement was how I measured how much I belonged.

A lot of my relationships.

I try to navigate white spaces without thinking too much about my own identity with the sense that I always felt a little bit like I didn't belong, whether that was on the soccer field, in the hospitality industry which is my background and has been my professional life for the past 15 years.

In the classroom and in social spaces, I think I've always been either the only woman of color or the most accessible person of color.

And what that does is not only did that bring on resentment to my own identity, I think it really made me try to, I wasn't always aware of the struggles of other communities of color because for me a simulation always kind of took over.

And so I did marry.

I'm proximity to whiteness continues My son is biracial.

He's half white and half Korean.

And I think navigating, what his identity is and how people perceive him as is always at the back of my mind as well.

With this rise of anti-Asian hate that has always existed as mentioned before.

It's really difficult right now to process how to continue to navigate and really how to represent the diverse voices of Asian lived experiences in Wisconsin.

And help us to do that I think is to not only lean into my own identity but really reach out to those diverse lived experiences and know that the Hmong experience the Vietnamese experience, the Filipino experiences, the vast diaspora of Asian American experiences in this country is really connected and rooted in fighting against white supremacy culture.

And I'm hoping that we can discuss that narrative further today.

- My name is Lo Neng Kiatoukaysy I'm the Director for the American Friendship.

I'm a product of the Vietnam war.

It's been really hard being among in America.

My father works for the CIA back in Laos and during the migration from Laos to Thailand to United States mom and seven kids, some of us came to America in Arkansas.

Little Rock Arkansas in 1980.

It wasn't until two years later, dad came to America.

So it was a really kind of tough childhood.

And in Arkansas very limited exposure to Asian school was a bit tough there.

There was a lot of misunderstanding, or I would say a lot of stereotype from my classmates toward me.

And then when I was in high school I moved to Minnesota.

I went to an all boys school in Northern Minnesota.

And that was kind of hard too because back in the late eighties, not too many people in that area are exposed to Asian and being the only Asian in a small town 600 people.

There's a lot of question asked.

I'm sure its innocent question and sometimes hurtful, but you know I live with some of those guys for four years in a certain prep.

And then now we're like brothers and best friends.

I enjoy quite a bit of stereotyping in.

I myself not so innocent too.

I do have stereotype of other races in the past.

And as we grow older, we tend to think better.

And also in concern of our children, we tend to be better so that you can be a good example of children in the incident that happened in Atlanta and also in California, that deeply saddened because we all are immigrants to America and for such tragedy to happen, it could have been me back to those day and said how could we make it better?

How can we stop this trend so that it does not continue to go to our children.

(indistinct) and ultimately learn hatred it's gonna build more hatred.

So I'm really hoping that there's a way, like my journey some of my worst enemy will become my best friend or a member of my family in the future.

And I'm hoping it turns out the worst scenario to the best scenario.

And that's why am here today.

- I'm Chia Youyee Vang as introduced.

And so I just wanna say thank you so much for having this conversation.

It's a lot for us to talk about now but I think talking is where we begin.

And I think your question about my own identity my story is similar to Lo Neng who is a good friend of mine.

I came to the US as a refugee as well of the Vietnam war and settled right away in the Twin Cities.

So for a lot of kids my generation who came in the late seventies and early eighties, huge flows of refugees from Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to the United States.

We were part of this group of refugees who were thrown into the inner city.

So what's interesting about my experiences is that I really appreciate hearing Daphne and Francesca story.

I think that I grew up very bi-cultural.

So because there were so many Hmong people in the Twin Cities, I grew up in St. Paul in particular, and I never questioned my identity.

I knew who I was.

I was very bi-cultural.

Kids in my generation, refugee kids we were the first ones to learn English.

So we became the voices for our parents.

We became the people who interpreted for them that we opened their letters and helped them to make payments.

So I never questioned who I was.

I was very strong in terms of my Hmong identity.

- [Teran] I'd like each of you to just talk about how you are still processing, what happened in Atlanta?

Like what has helped you what are you still grappling with.

Dr. Vang I'll send it back to you.

- What's happened to how I'm processing this is that I've heard from a lot of people too, in how my life has changed.

In the past as a person of MultiSense living in Wisconsin now and then previously Minnesota, I will have to say that I have always been aware of my identity that among Americans or Asian Americans here in Wisconsin I've always been really aware of where I go what I do and being the mother of two, young Hmong sons I'm every day now encouraging them when they go out the COVID was only bad enough.

Where I was already telling them don't do this, don't do that.

This is how you respond.

If somebody say something to you.

But after the Atlanta shooting it's made me even more not just for myself but for my family and my students and my colleagues.

We're all just trying to better understand why we're so afraid.

We're so afraid because it can happen anywhere.

And it has happened in spaces that you never think it would happen.

So for me, it has been really troubling because now I and my colleagues, and other Asian people of Asian descent we're afraid to walk down the block without being aware.

We're going to the grocery store.

You're thinking about, okay, I have to make sure is somebody watching me.

I'm just much more aware than I ever been before.

I was before but so much more now than ever.

- Francesca - I don't like that I feel scared walking down the street but I know that these types of fears unfortunately are so common amongst so many communities right now.

So where I'd like to start asking deeper questions I'd like more people to start looking at root causes.

I wanna get away from identity politics talks and really have honest conversations about identity.

And so the process I think for me is about collective grief and collective solidarity.

And then working together towards solution and everyone recognizing that it is really going to be an all cylinders firing all the time, sustained advocacy that we all need to take responsibility to be a part of in order to find those solutions.

- I agree with you.

And I think you bring up parallels of course, just me being a black woman in the whole movement we've seen, especially in 2020 of black people demanding to stop being murdered for simply walking down the street.

We recognize being followed in certain places.

Wondering if someone's gonna, I don't know look at you weird act towards you weird.

So black folks are well aware of that.

And I know you guys are familiar with that as well.

So when we talk about having those conversations with our communities of color about navigating racial identity, we definitely have a tone in common.

And the next part of my question, I'll send it to you Lo Neng because I think you kind of touched on this a little bit in your first answer.

How did we get to this moment to Atlanta?

To the moment in California?

what contributed to this?

- I'm still kinda shaking and shocked by it.

You never think that you'll see something like this in the United States today, it's like a roller coaster.

It just doesn't stop with Black Lives Matter protests.

And now it rolls into the Asian.

It's sad to see.

The question is that what are we gonna do to stop this?

This is crazy.

At the same time, it makes me angry.

At the same time I wanna reach out and educate people.

I wanna reach out and ensure people that there's a way to communicate with each other than do all these kinds of crazy stuff.

- When communities are pitted against each other, when we don't recognize that white supremacy impacts white people as well that if we continue to be complacent and thinking that representation is enough, we will never get better.

Representation is not enough.

Race class narratives and racial identity and education about the role of race in the history of this country needs to be ubiquitous in the educational institutions need to be ubiquitous in political systems.

We have to concurrently shift culture in order to shift laws and regulations.

And I think that, being the first, a lot of people ask me about that, and I always answered with it's nothing, unless if I'm the last.

I think that it's incredibly important that we continue to recognize that, we are at the intersection of race, class, gender.

All of this violence is perpetuated because we live in such a scarcity mindset and it pits communities against each other.

And we must be able to overcome that narrative by recognizing that it can be better.

We can choose to make this better but it's everyone's responsibility.

- And so I'll take the next question here.

As we talk about, actionable changes and bringing everyone together.

- I think that it's really important is that for politician and government to really understand our community, and at the same time if the Hmong community get off to vote or election as politicians they always go to our community and say, well vote for me, I'll do this and that.

We really need to hold government accountable a leader accountable for what they are saying and what they will do for our community.

I think it's really important.

Our community needs to be educated that the power of audience is important not just vote because you've realized one you can vote for this and that person, but because of what you believe in that person and what person would do for your community as a whole, as a non-profit organization I strongly believe in(indistinct).

And I strongly believe that if you could get all community to get out to vote it's such an impactful thing in having you as a citizen.

It should be a miracle.

Our right to be able to vote for an individual that instead of come through to you.

And I do call for governmental accountability and leadership accountability because when you are a leader, what you say, what impacts your community and whether it's a good thing or a bad thing I'm just educating our community to the extent that you should really get out to vote (indistinct) - Absolutely.

Just one note of that.

I completely support that notion that we can not just be going to these communities every two years and every four years.

And when we know that our vote is really can make a difference in so many elections.

And I think it's important that legislators understand that the folks going back to their communities trying to get folks engaged in letting them know the importance of voting they need things to go back to their communities to be able to help gain that support.

We cannot just be a party about what we are voting against.

We need to make sure that we are leaders who stand up and are giving you something to fight for.

And that's absolutely on accountability of elected officials.

And I agree that we cannot continue this notion of going back to communities of colors every two to four years and not being able to show anything for it.

- That's so interesting to hear.

For me it makes me think of my parents and discussions I've been having with them about political engagement.

And I think especially my mom being the generation that she is and having seen so much tumultuous change in China she's never really felt like her voice mattered I think that her vote would matter that she could affect change here and often has they've taught me to kind of work hard, keep your head down and people will recognize when you do well.

And to just kind of be quiet and don't speak up too much.

And so I think like these events and a lot of things that have happened recently have brought them out a little bit and kinda encouraged them to take up more space and speak up.

And I think that's part of why like these discussions are so helpful because a lot of my processing has been done in silence or by myself.

And it's very nice to talk to other people and to come together and just speak out.

- Sorry.

- Go ahead Lo Neng.

- One thing that I do wanna add is it fighting for crumbs.

I've been a nonprofit for over 25 years.

And I see a lot of, I don't know they put an RFP out there, small agency we're fighting for crumbs and kind of really divide us.

One of my philosophy live is that you do not fight with other agency.

There's gotta be a better way to work things out.

There are things that you could do better.

There's things that all the agents can do better.

And by leveraging the resources you can help directly provide service to your community.

But I noticed that a lot of founders out there they like to pit us against each other.

And I think we have to realize that and say, hey listen I'm not gonna fight with my another nonprofit organization for that resource.

Perhaps maybe I can work better with them in putting a proposal together or maybe just stay away from it if it's not something I'm good at.

And I think that by recognizing it, by doing that, it brings us all together because resource funding does split us apart and does a lot us to fight with each other.

And to me that's not productive at all.

- I was just gonna say that, your question about what needs to change and what can be done.

I think that we really have to be able to not see people as so different from us.

I think so often that has been the case.

Where if a black child is injured, I should be in pain for that black child.

And same for another person who doesn't look like me, if I'm hurt that they should feel the pain too.

So I think that so often we hurt when it's people who look like us, that's been I think one of the biggest challenge in our society.

And that's why even like in the Asian-American community when many did come up many are part of Black Lives Matter movements around the country too and our Hmong community as well.

So maybe just rethink those kinds of how we see other people and white supremacy is very, very important, but I feel like the rest of us, we have to have more coalition building across the different groups that it's a battle for all of us.

It can't just be isolated, you know small battles.

It's a larger war that we have to fight together.

And the only way we can make some movement is I say this from a very personal level.

Can we hurt?

Can you feel pain when it's people who don't look like you?

Until we do something, then I think it's gonna be really hard for people to come together.

So I challenge all of us to do that.

- Yes and I think that's a great time to mention that we're planning a second segment soon to deal specifically and talk specifically about tensions between the Asian and the black community racism within groups of people of color which is a very complex, complicated topic.

And we probably can't unpack today.

- I wanna know what you guys think the movement on social media can add to the conversation.

Dr. Vang I'll start with you.

- Sure.

I'm so pleased to see so many people engaged on social media, but I also hope that it's not just sitting in our homes and engaging in social media that we do take action when we're out in the field when we're going shopping all of us we need to take care of each other in that I think it's really important to not just be aware but then to be willing to take some actions.

So I'll just leave it with that.

It is a incredibly difficult time for everyone in the country globally.

But when you add, another layer of anti-Asian hate in particular but all the other incidents as well it makes it a very very intense moment for us to exist.

And I think for me again, social media is great but it can't just be in social media that people have to take action on the ground, in our spaces, in our neighborhoods.

We can't be complicit.

- Lo Neng.

- When I think of media, TV, news and things like that, usually bad news are good.

To me I wish that social media would portray more successful news positive news to be good news.

So that way we can directly or indirectly affect people to think positively.

Sometime you should feature a good news.

I'm serious to really showcase that there are good in our community.

There's good in our society too.

So that way we just don't run to bad news and things like that.

- And Francesca.

- Advocacy and looks very different and folks have to engage in the ways that they are able to.

I'm glad that social media has increased engagement but I echo what Dr. Vang and Lo Neng said that it's important to stay positive, but it's important to get out and take action as well.

I encourage folks to not let this fizzle out.

To not let Black Lives Matter stop anti-Asian hate pro immigration policy things that are really impacting people's everyday lives right now to not make this a trend.

Racism is not trendy.

Racism has been awhile, been around for years and it's going to continue regardless of how many administration changes there are.

So it's important that we support one another and make sure that this is sustained advocacy that we stay loud, that we hold one another accountable but also take moments to reflect on our own internal biases and recognize that each one of us has a potential to be better.

And collectively as communities need to be stronger and we can get there, but it's going to take time and it's going to take again, sustained advocacy.

Do not let racism, do not let Black Lives Matter.

Do not let stop Asian hate, just be a flavor of the month.

We have to make sure that we continue to organize, organize, organize.

- Thank you so much to our guests for joining us today for Listen MKE Asian Americans speaking out against hate and bigotry.

And thank everybody for watching.

Listen MKE is a partnership between WUWM Milwaukee NPR the Ideas Lab at Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Milwaukee PBS and the Milwaukee Public Library.

Thank you all so much.

- [Man] This has been in Milwaukee PBS Listen MKE special presentation.

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