(dramatic music) - [Matt] Christopher Evans' grotesque art offers a unique perspective on economic violence.

Chat with artists Catherine Murphy and Harry Roseman.

(Catherine laughs) And a catch a performance from... ♪ This is another AHA moment ♪ Victory Soul Orchestra.

♪ Live at WMHT studios ♪ - [Narrator] Funding for AHA has been provided by your contribution and by contributions to the WMHT Venture Fund.

Contributors include the Leo Cox Beach Philanthropic Foundation, Chet and Karen Opalka, Robert and Doris Fisher Malesardi, and the Robison Family Foundation.

- At M&T Bank, we understand that the vitality of our communities is crucial to our continued success.

That's why we take an active role in our community.

M&T Bank is pleased to support WMHT programming that highlights the arts and we invite you to do the same.

(techno music) (techno music continues) - Hi, I'm Matt Rogowicz and this is AHA, a House for arts, a place for all things creative.

Christopher Evans is an artist and educator living in Boston Lake, New York.

His art is eye catching, often colorful, vibrant, and intricately detailed.

But behind all that, there's something very grim and grotesque about it all.

(melancholic music) - I am a two-dimensional artist and I work with paint and any drawing implement I can find.

(laughs) Color is fun and it kind of brings a lightheartedness to my work, which, like, I'd have to, because then it's way too serious and dark for me to be thinking about for hours on end.

I make art primarily dealing with the critique of capitalist social structure.

And I try to do that by showing how human beings are commodified as flesh and meat and not valued as humans.

I grew up very evangelical Christian, and so like content moderation, it's huge.

I was homeschooled and, you know, only had curriculum that was, like, approved by Focus on the Family and wasn't allowed to like, obviously read comic books, watch TV, and so, I originally, like, started drawing to copy comic books so I could keep them.

I wanted them to look like the comic book pages, so I just practiced until I copied them.

And I think a lot of artists are kind of like gate kept by like the talent myth.

It's a learned skill.

I got my degree in communications and mass media and was like mostly stuck in different sorts of sales positions.

I don't know if you've ever had a, like, a job where you're just trying to survive.

It's tough, and even if it does like pay well, it, like, kind of sucks the life out of you, and so when I was 26 or 27, I just decided like I could at least be able to make art my whole life if I was an art professor.

As soon as I decided that I, like, felt at peace, like I finally, like, just the decision was all I needed.

(melancholic music continues) If you see, like, I call them my "sad boy paintings", there's a recurring like growth on my shoulder that's like digging its fingernails in me.

I had a disconnect with like my identity.

I felt, you know, alone even though I was, you know, had a loving family.

That all changed when I got my autism diagnosis and it clicked.

All of my work was about being autistic, but I didn't know it.

That's very one dimensional and it's not a good portrayal of the overall community.

I don't know any other autistic people that just only want to be identified as autistic.

And so my overwhelming compulsion to hyper fixate on social injustice became like my focus.

(upbeat music) Humor's the most subversive force.

You get 'em to laugh and then they will listen to you a little bit more.

Because at first I was just like, I need to like build this alternative universe to kinda show my message.

And so I created the thumb people, you know, a mutant race of oligarchs, you know, cheering on violence for sport, ultimate fighting, football, and then moved into just the kind of straight-like meat portraits.

I just felt like we don't need to be reminded about the thumb people.

We need to be reminded about what they're doing to us.

(dramatic music) You know, I had that picture of a guy like on a cigarette break, you know, cutting up all his meat, but then like the irony of it is like he's also the product for that company and he's also like being slowly butchered.

I felt like that was really great, and that was kind of like the turning point and kind of put me into the direction of just like portraying humans and, like, both victims and perpetrators.

And this is a work in progress.

I think with this, the shape it'll be, you know, shrink wrap styrofoam square, like you're used to getting your ground beef and steaks, and probably a little label explaining who he is, what his qualifications are, and you know, what his hourly rate is.

I just want people to think about, like, themselves and their value and their worth.

(dramatic music continues) - "Cathy & Harry" is a documentary film about artists Catherine Murphy and Harry Roseman, whose work is in collections from the Metropolitan Museum of Art to the Metropolitan Transit Authority.

"Cathy & Harry" documents how their lives revolve around work, food, friends, and each other.

WMHT will soon be airing the film in March.

But first, we are happy to welcome artists Catherine Murphy and Harry Roseman to our studio.

- Hi Cathy and Harry, welcome to a House for Art.

- Hi.

- Hi.

- Yeah, I'm excited to talk about your documentary film that is your name, "Cathy & Harry" and to get to know a little bit more about you folks.

So how did it feel to have your creative process captured on film, like how was that?

- They, the people, the filmmakers, are very good friends of ours.

It was shot with an iPhone.

- Wow.

- So there was no lights.

And the hard part was remembering that they were filming more than being nervous about being filmed because they've been close friends for a long time, and so we often have conversations about art.

The husband is Daniel Wolff and he's a poet and his wife, Marta Renzi is a choreographer and now she's a filmmaker.

So we've been talking for 40 years.

So really, the surprise was actually seeing it filmed and it was like, "Oh, they were filming."

- Like, "Oh, they're there."

And this was like, just about your life, right?

Like this is just supposed to be just act normal, just do your thing.

- Sure act normal, yes.

- And they're just following you around.

(laughs) - Normal, you know.

We're working towards that.

- That's probably the hard part, so.

- And when Marta, for instance, wanted to film me working, I had an idea and I told her, "I'll go in my studio and start drawing and you sneak up on me and I won't know you're filming and then I'll just keep working.

It'll be very natural."

And that worked until she was like this close to my face and I went, "Whoa!"

- You got scared a little bit.

It's like, it's not a horror film.

It's supposed just to be a nice documentary.

But you know, the outcome of the documentary is absolutely beautiful.

So I wanted to talk about your different styles.

You both have different styles of art, and I wanted to ask you, how does this influence, you know, each of you?

- Well, in some ways it frees us because we are very, very much, we influence one another a great deal.

And we are free to let that happen because nobody's invading anybody else's territory.

So it's pretty natural and really we share more than is instantly recognizable.

I mean, we share so many interests that sometimes we're amazed that we have crossed each other.

I mean not, I don't mean in a bad way, we're both thinking about the same thing at the same time because we live a life together and we were educated together.

And so we share many things in common, but not so much that either of us are hamstringed by somebody else's ideas.

- Territory.

- Right.

- And it makes us very unterritorial.

- Right.

- And early on, I made sculpture and Cathy made paintings.

And now my work has evolved into various ways.

But so, it was always so great to feed each other and not have to be competitive.

- Right.

- Because of that, you know, it might have been more difficult if we were both painters or both sculptors.

- Right.

- Then we might have been less open and it made us be very open, which is great.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

It's beautiful really just having like an art partner, you know?

- Oh, yeah.

- Oh, absolutely.

And you know, one of the difficulties is for the most parts art takes place in a place where there are many other artists, but we decided to move to the country and I think that, and subsequently we made lots of wonderful friends who also were artists, but it's different than living in a community that's tight knit.

And so we had each other and we are each other's best critics because... - And probably harshest critics.

- And harshest critics.

- Yeah, I was going to say, very honest, right?

- Very honest, yeah.

- I think that that's essential, essential and we had each other to do that with, and so we could live on our chicken farm.

So, you know?

- We could move as like a (hums).

- Yeah, exactly.

And you guys have been married about 50 years.

- Wait, 54, five or six?

- 68, we got married in 68.

- Oh wow.

Okay.

So with that, what are the rituals and habits that keep you both creatively engaged?

'cause you know, that's a long time to be, you know, married with another creative or another artist.

So what keeps you guys, you know, still creative, still going?

- That's a question I don't know if we can answer.

(Cathy laughs) - That's a very difficult You know, I'm always behind, my mind is way ahead of what I can produce.

So I'm always feeling pressured or like I have to catch up.

So it's just like breathing in a way.

You know, you get up in the morning, you do your work and then you never get enough done and then the next morning happens.

And so, that's like not an effort.

- It isn't.

- It's just natural.

- The effort is not to get discouraged when it's going slowly and it often goes slowly.

I mean, you know, with your best intentions and your most optimism that you can muster, lots of times you go into the studio and nothing happens.

I mean, you work, but you've gone backwards rather than forwards.

But that just happens.

That's just a part of the process.

- Yeah, so it just seems like the ritual is just consistency, getting it up, just getting up and just doing it again and just, you know, just keep going.

- And I would say it takes discipline, but it's so natural, discipline doesn't seem like the right word.

I mean, people will say, "Oh, you're so disciplined."

But it's just what we do.

So it doesn't seem like you have to self-consciously think of it as discipline.

- What I always say about being an artist is you're an artist if you have to be an artist.

I don't mean to take anybody out of this game, but if you don't have to do it, eventually you won't do it because there's so many things in life and so many distractions and pretty much, I don't know if this is true in our case, but pretty much nobody else cares if you're an artist, but you.

And if you are able to get off the track, you'll get off the track, you know?

But, you know, my wellbeing depends on me making work.

If I'm not making work, I'm not happy, I'm not content, content is the wrong word.

Am I ever content?

That's another question.

But, you know, if I'm not making work, I don't feel right.

I don't feel like a human.

- Yeah.

- This is what it takes for me to be here is to make work.

And, you know, we're getting very old and we're still making work all the time.

So it doesn't... - Which is a gift, - Which is a true gift.

- You know, even though it's not subconscious, it does feel like a gift on some level.

- Yeah.

- So I know the film highlights food, conversations, community.

How do those subjects, I guess, influence each of your work?

- Well... - It's a life.

- It's a life, exactly.

- You know, you eat, and you see friends and well, and we have some friends who aren't artists and we have a lot of friends who are artists.

- We do, we do.

- So this, like, we're talking with you and with Daniel and Marta in the film, a lot of our life is talking to friends about their work, our work.

And so it's often hard to know where specific influences come from, but it's all kind of permeating your thinking in your life.

So it's all of a piece, kind of, I would say.

- And there's the community that we have up here, but both of us have been showing in New York since the sixties, it's a larger world.

There's a small world and there's a much larger world.

And there's, you know, like one of the things I think artists are responsible for is to be part of a conversation and there's a conversation of art that is actually almost available to so many people now through the internet.

But also, you know, there's that great big New York City down there, so.

There's that, there are those people too.

- And we both taught, so.

- Right.

- It's nice that we have artist friends of various generations.

- Yes.

- So, we don't only know bunch of other old people.

(group laughs) - Yes, yes.

That's true.

That's true.

- And the other artists we know, you know, if you go in stages down generations have some related concerns to what we have and some different concerns.

So that keeps you thinking in a certain way, in a worldly way.

- And we make a great effort to see the people that we, lots of shows in New York, but also, but particularly our friends' shows in New York, so that we don't miss them and keep up with them.

- Yeah, exactly.

Gotta support.

Gotta support your friends.

- Exactly, exactly.

- So last question is, what do you want viewers to get out of this documentary?

- Oh, another hard question!

(group laughs) - Throwing some zingers at you.

- You have too many hard questions.

(laughing continues) I don't know.

I want them not to hate me.

(group laughs) - I know as an artist you're like, "Are you judging me now?"

- You know, I know I want that.

You know, I guess, you know, pushed to have to answer that, I would say I would like them to know that we're serious about what we do and that it's an integral part of our lives and that it's almost inseparable from who we are and what we do and how we live.

And then the work itself is out in the world anyway.

So people get things out of that.

But speaking of the documentary, that's, I guess, my answer.

- And I would be, I mean, one of the things, you know, I've never even thought this before, but one of the things, it would be lovely if people whose children are thinking about going into art, if the people, the parents, who were scared to death that they're gonna have no life and they're going to be destitute and miserable.

Not necessarily.

(laughs) - Yeah, it's true.

- Not necessarily, you know?

I mean, maybe, but not necessarily.

- But it's not as popular as it used to be, you can make a very nice living, you know, as an artist these days.

- If you're lucky and it's, you know, it's very unreliable, but you know, there are are ways to make it better.

And so, here we are.

- And I would say the majority of artists have other jobs as well, like actors.

- Yeah.

- You know, you have your work and you have the thing that supports you.

- Yeah, your day job.

- And if you're lucky, they're one thing.

- Right.

- Or some combination of that.

And, you just kind of figure it out best as you can.

- Awesome.

Well thank you both for giving us a little breakdown, a little behind the scenes of "Cathy & Harry".

I can't wait to have it out to the world.

So everybody can view your beautiful lives and beautiful relationship and thanks for joining us today.

- Well, thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you very much.

- You can watch "Cathy & Harry" right here on WMHT, Monday, March 3rd at 10:00 PM, Wednesday, March 5th at 5:00 PM, and Friday, March 7th at 9:00 PM.

Please welcome Victory Soul Orchestra.

(funk music) (funk music continues) ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ Hey yo, hey yo, hey yo ♪ ♪ I rise with the sun ♪ ♪ Another chance at greatness ♪ ♪ My clock still ticking, I ain't worried about lateness ♪ ♪ Since I work for myself.

♪ ♪ So my time means pace ♪ ♪ Still on my grind, let's face it ♪ ♪ So my time ain't wasted ♪ ♪ Early bird in the dirt ♪ ♪ Where the worms and the roots are ♪ ♪ Ten toes to the pavement ♪ ♪ Once I put my boots on ♪ ♪ Got it out the mud ♪ ♪ Sweat and tears mixed with blood ♪ ♪ Childhood fears, gave them up ♪ ♪ Now it's time to live it up ♪ ♪ Get into the bag ♪ ♪ Papa's got a brand new ♪ ♪ Now I'm acting brand new ♪ ♪ They're looking like some damn fools ♪ ♪ Doing the same things ♪ ♪ we did when we was youngsters ♪ ♪ Wen we was dumber to feed that hunger ♪ ♪ Small people grow up, say hold up ♪ ♪ The wise wants mature and get older ♪ ♪ Others fall by the wayside ♪ ♪ Never escape the lives of the tunnel ♪ ♪ Their vision was muddled in ♪ ♪ Their dreams deferred ♪ ♪ Only leads to trouble, come on ♪ ♪ Up, up, up, early ♪ (funk music continues) ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ We striving for black excellence, black opulence ♪ ♪ Yeah, that's what my only two options is ♪ ♪ I can't accept nothing less ♪ ♪ Or a lower vibration may lead the stagnation ♪ ♪ I'm trying to lead a nation ♪ ♪ I'm trying to meet the basics ♪ ♪ Food, clothing, and shelter ♪ ♪ Teach a man to fish ♪ ♪ Teach man the soul ♪ ♪ Teach man to build, that's keeping it real ♪ ♪ That's how you help us ♪ ♪ That's the foundation ♪ ♪ Proper planning prevents poor performance ♪ ♪ Lord help us ♪ ♪ We are not worthy ♪ ♪ We haven't laid the groundwork ♪ ♪ That's not how this works ♪ ♪ You know how the story goes ♪ ♪ Where the rose rose from the concrete ♪ ♪ Iron sharpens iron and like minds ♪ ♪ You stand on your conviction, make unique opposition ♪ ♪ The results equal the work that you put in ♪ ♪ We gotta reach the children ♪ ♪ We gotta feed the babies ♪ ♪ So we gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up early ♪ ♪ So I gotta get up, up, up, early ♪ ♪ Take us out, band ♪ (funk music continues) (funk music continues) ♪ So I gotta get up ♪ (electronic music) ♪ This is another AHA moment ♪ ♪ Live at WMHT studios ♪ ♪ I am that unidentified flying object ♪ ♪ You see the drip, you hear that splash ♪ ♪ You're on my ah, I'll talk my shh ♪ ♪ You'll talk your trash ♪ ♪ I'm 'bout that cash ♪ ♪ I'll probably never see a billy, but I'm still a goat ♪ ♪ Just call me Curry, I shoot my shot from far out ♪ ♪ She be like whoa now ♪ ♪ I'll be like calm down ♪ ♪ Hop up in the spaceship ♪ ♪ We're headed to the stars now ♪ ♪ I drive a Mars Rover ♪ ♪ You think your car better ♪ ♪ You better start over ♪ ♪ Panoramic roof so we can see the constellations ♪ ♪ My run is far from over ♪ ♪ I'm just getting started ♪ ♪ You're dearly departed ♪ ♪ Ultra magnetic on a ego trip ♪ ♪ You should eat a brick ♪ ♪ This a mic check ♪ ♪ You should eat it, kid ♪ ♪ Oh, lift off ♪ ♪ Moon walking all over the stars ♪ ♪ That's my two step ♪ ♪ Cops wanna pull your homie over ♪ ♪ Asking where the tool's kept ♪ ♪ They treat me like an alien ♪ ♪ And put me in a space jam ♪ ♪ You can't get these space bars on me ♪ ♪ I'm special ♪ ♪ I must be the alarm that you slept through ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ (electronic music continues) ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Soul snatching and spending nights with women ♪ ♪ I just like to stir their curiosity ♪ ♪ These space invader black home explorer ♪ ♪ Trying to reach the event, horizon ♪ ♪ They like they're all getting shifted ♪ ♪ They all be like Jay gifted ♪ ♪ Way above the clouds, stay lifted ♪ ♪ They mad 'cause Jay stay tripping ♪ ♪ Check it ♪ ♪ They marvel at me ♪ ♪ Carrying heavy metal ♪ ♪ Call me the Iron Man ♪ ♪ Aman and Xenophobes, inner galaxion ♪ ♪ Where is he coming from ♪ ♪ Another dimension, damn ♪ ♪ Pardon my french ♪ ♪ But I'm a God in the flesh with a God complex ♪ ♪ Too complex in my final form ♪ ♪ Still nice with these hammers ♪ ♪ Call me mighty Thor ♪ ♪ Tucked in the armoire, au revoir ♪ ♪ That's French for Goodbye ♪ ♪ Okay, raise the random bunkers and them number runners ♪ ♪ Bird is set to stunner, I'm a top gunner.

♪ ♪ We can take a Tom Cruise whenever you want to ♪ ♪ Up and down the coastline ♪ ♪ Hand around a waist line ♪ ♪ She don't wanna waste time ♪ ♪ Intergalactic, I'm a beast boy ♪ ♪ I come in peace, boy ♪ ♪ Still a mic jack ♪ ♪ You better beat it, boy ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ Take off, fool ♪ ♪ Walking all over the stars ♪ ♪ That's my two step ♪ ♪ Cops, why you pilling me over ♪ ♪ Asking where the tool's kept ♪ ♪ They treat me like an alien and put me in a space jam ♪ ♪ You can get these space balls, homie ♪ ♪ I'm special ♪ ♪ I must be the alarm that you slept through ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ ♪ Ultra terrestrial ♪ (dramatic music) Thanks for joining us.

For more arts, visit wmht.org/aha and be sure to connect with us on social.

I'm Matt Rogowicz.

Thanks for watching.

(dramatic music continues) (dramatic music continues) - [Narrator] Funding for AHA has been provided by your contribution and by contributions to the WMHT Venture Fund.

Contributors include the Leo Cox Beach Philanthropic Foundation, Chet and Karen Opalka, Robert and Doris Fisher Malesardi, and the Robison Family Foundation.

- At M&T Bank, we understand that the vitality of our communities is crucial to our continued success.

That's why we take an active role in our community.

M&T Bank is pleased to support WMHT programming that highlights the arts and we invite you to do the same.