- Coming up on American Black Journal, we've got another great episode in our Black Church in Detroit series.

This one looks at the importance of ministers maintaining their own mental health.

Plus we're gonna get a preview of this year's Silence the Violence March and Rally at the Church of the Messiah.

And the Detroit NAACP announces plans for the 60th anniversary of the Walk to Freedom.

Stay where you are.

American Black Journal starts right now.

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(upbeat music) - Welcome to American Black Journal.

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

Today we continue our series on the Black Church in Detroit, which is produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary and with the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History.

As we close out mental health awareness month, we wanna talk about the mental health of ministers.

Self-care and taking time off are just as important for pastors as they are for everyone else.

But often ministers put their own health and problems aside to care for others.

I spoke with Reverend Dr. Carla Spight-Mackey of Detroit Wayne Integrated Health Network, about the importance of ministers maintaining their mental health.

I'm really intrigued by this idea.

The idea of care for caregivers is something that we talk about a lot right now in our culture because more and more people find themselves in the role, I think, of caregiver than ever before.

But in some ways that means we're not always thinking about people who have always been in the role of caregiver their entire careers or some cases their entire lives.

And I think pastors fall into that category.

They need care, too.

And this is mental health awareness month that you're trying to draw attention to the idea that they need mental health support sometimes as much as the rest of us do.

- Absolutely.

I think quite often, we as the community, even though I'm a minister and serve as a pastor, I think that quite often we forget that pastors are, number one, human.

Number two, we as pastors suffer twice, let's say it that way.

I can say it that way because of course throughout COVID and moving into where we are now, we have funeralized so many of our members and family and friends.

And it's not just going to do a eulogy, but it's eulogizing someone you know and you take on that, you empathize, and are entrenched in it.

And if we don't take care of ourselves, we could be worse off than the people we're trying to take care of.

- Yeah, yeah.

As you point out, the pandemic was just absolutely terrorizing for religious communities, in particular, as they had to bury their own and pastors lead congregations in that exercise.

But now we're past that.

And I feel like there are a lot of people who are saying, "Okay, well we're done with that and we can go back to quote unquote normal, whatever that is."

But the lingering effects of it, I think, are the thing that, especially for pastors, I think look really different than what people might expect.

Can you talk just a little about what pastors are dealing with now in the wake of everything that they've had to do in the last three years?

- Well and I'm glad you asked.

That's a very layered question, I'll put it that way, because there's the first layer of us dealing with the situation, but the aftermath.

And we don't often think of the trauma that is there, the underlying causes, what is still not taken care of, so to speak, because all of this is a journey just like life is a journey.

Every situation, every emotional, I'll call it an attack, is another journey that has to be healed through.

And it requires us.

I remember one of my fellow clinicians also said, "We need to step back and we need to quote unquote detox."

Because what happens is that trauma, that those things that we haven't dealt with are still there.

And I don't know how many people know, but within our society, pastors have a high rate of suicide because of the trauma that is there.

Those things that are underlying, those things that haven't been dealt with.

And so that's some of the after effects and that's where we are.

They're what sometimes are called walking wounded.

That it's kind of, not that anything is lightweight, but it is lighter than those deeper healing things.

Pastors have had losses and I'll be just transparent.

I just lost my husband in March.

And so walking in that, if we don't know how to step back, people will ask often and we try to be the hero with the great cape on and always say, "God will take care of it."

But God expects us to take care of ourselves, too.

And so that aftermath is dealing with grief, it's dealing with the rise of domestic violence.

It's dealing with the number of suicides and attempted suicides.

It's all of those things.

It's dealing with people who are stressed out and burnt out while you, as the pastor, the minister, the layperson working in ministry, are also dealing with those things yourself.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

So let's talk about ways and places that clergy members can find support.

It seems like it might be a little harder again because people aren't always thinking about them as needing it.

They can't always go to the places that their congregants go, which is to the church and to the pastor.

So how do you fill those gaps?

How do you find the support that they need?

- So one of the things that I think is very amazing is that many of the ministers, many pastors, folks working on the frontline in ministry that I know have formed circles.

So calling on each other to support each other through that.

But also there is, when COVID first started, the church I was affiliated with started a group called Grief Share.

Grief Share is a national organization.

It's Christian based and even lay people can run it.

And so one of the things that happened for me is that one of the pastors I know and are very close to said, "What you need to do is you need to find a grief share group that's away from where you would be ministering yourself."

And they're all over the place.

And you can find them online just by going on to griefshare.com.

And they'll give you lists of Grief Share groups that run.

And they're 13 week programs.

And they're just really awesome people who are walking that walk.

But building a network in advance, letting, being transparent enough to say, "You know what?

Today is not a good day.

Today, I shouldn't be in the pulpit.

Today, I shouldn't be seeing people."

And then having your ministry set up such that you have perused your congregation and identified those who are therapists and counselors and support people, chaplains all over the place and making sure that they are available for your congregation.

We cannot, in this era, try to meet the needs of everyone, particularly if we don't have time to take care of ourselves.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I wanna spend a little bit of time talking also about, because it is mental health awareness month, the desperate need in our community, the African American community, to emphasize mental health.

That's another barrier that black pastors, of course, probably face as well, is the stigma or the dismissal, I guess, of the importance of mental health.

But this is the time each year when we really try to focus on that and it's still a big problem for us.

- Absolutely.

One of the, I think, greatest problems within the African American community is built on shame.

Like we ought to be ashamed if we are not okay, whatever that means.

It is due time, from my perspective, that we validate that we have members in our community who are differently abled.

They have issues that sometimes we don't understand as lay people.

And we need to, as ministers, pastors, normalize that.

We ought to be transparent about it.

We need to link into organizations like Detroit Wayne Integrated Health Network and get to know the provider network that is in the community near our church and get to know those people who run those organizations so that when our congregants show up, a lot of things are beyond our own abilities, our capabilities.

And we need a clinician, we need someone licensed.

And so it is a great thing for organizations to link in to our network here in Wayne County.

We actually have a faith-based committee.

There are many ministers and pastors who belong to that committee and who do a lot of prevention work in their church.

So it's not null and void, but it needs to be more.

We need to be more vocal about it because we have members in our congregation sitting in the pews, in the chairs who need to know that it's okay to say you're not okay.

- The Church of the Messiah is gonna hold its 16th annual Silence the Violence March and Rally on June 17th on Detroit's east side.

This event honors victims of gun violence and brings together elected officials, law enforcement, religious leaders, community activists, and residents to find solutions to stop the shootings.

I spoke with Pastor Barry Randolph about the plans for this year's gathering.

Silence the Violence March has really grown from the original concept and the first years of you doing it.

Talk about how different it will be this year when you do it on June 17th.

- Yeah, it's amazing.

Can't believe it's been 16 years.

This will be the 16th annual Silence the Violence March.

This year, well last year it had grown so large that other people came and said, "Hey, we need to be doing this in our city."

So we're going to be doing it in other cities across the state of Michigan.

So it's going to be in Ann Arbor, Grand Haven, Flint, Kalamazoo, Oxford, Southfield, and Pontiac.

And so there will be other cities joining us honoring innocent victims of gun violence.

Some will hold marches, some will have prayer rallies, some will be doing sit-ins.

And in Southfield they'll be a gun buyback.

So they're gonna be different across the state of Michigan.

But it's expanded.

Last year we had about a thousand people show up.

This year we expect between two and 3000 people.

- So I want to give you a chance just to talk a little about what's going on.

This is a strange time in the city for violence.

We've gotten through the pandemic, the awfulness of the pandemic.

Everybody, all of us had to relearn how to function in the world, I feel like, after all the loss and disruption of that.

And we come out of it to what seems to be shaping up as an era of increasing violence in the in the city.

It's not safer, it's worse.

You see it up close with young people.

You see it in the community there at the church.

What do you think is going on?

Why is this happening?

- Well, Stephen, that is a great question.

And one of the things that I think about is now in 2023, is a leading cause of death among young people or children under the age of 17, is guns.

Something hundred percent preventable.

This issue is not all across the world.

It is a unique American way of dying.

And I think that's something that we need to look at.

It used to be accidents or illness, and now it's guns.

This is something that we can do something about.

And I always have to tell people, this has nothing to do with your second amendment rights, being able to carry a firearm.

This is about getting it out of the hands of people who shouldn't have one.

People who don't believe in just carrying a firearm to protect themselves, but who are planning on committing murder.

That's really the issue that we're trying to get down to.

That's why we're trying to silence that violence.

But this is unique across the country.

It's not just Detroit, it's everywhere.

And firearms, there's an easy access to it and there's a lot of people who shouldn't have it, who have it and they're taking their anger and frustration out on other people.

So times have changed.

- Yeah, I know you do a lot of work reaching out to young people in your community.

Talk about the things that we need to be doing to divert them from this kind of thing.

Obviously marches like Silence the Violence are really important, but you work all year on this issue.

- Yeah, and what I'd like to tell people, too.

'Cause people come and say, "Well, Pastor Barry, marches don't stop gun violence."

The march is not to stop gun violence.

The march is to remember those who died because of gun violence.

So we walk around with signs and pictures of those.

So we wanna remember them and we wanna honor them by creating hopefully more peaceful communities, more cohesive, strong communities.

I let the young people know that I'm 60 years old.

So Stephen, I'm older than you.

And I remember a time when gun violence was not the leading cause of death.

There was no such word as carjacking or drive-bys, no such words as mass shootings.

You didn't hear about this.

That wasn't that long ago.

So there was a time when this was not as big of an issue as it is now.

So it's not like we've never not had a time when gun violence was not a major issue in this country.

So we know that that can exist and we know that that can happen.

And what we're trying to do is make sure that happens.

What we need to do is to build our communities and neighborhood, we need to have more affordable housing, we need to have job training, we need to work on business incubation, we need to work on education and skilled trades to make sure that our young people have a good, positive, strong future.

And we need to teach them their value.

The value of who they are as a human being more than outward material sense.

- Yeah.

The march.

People, anyone can participate obviously.

But I wanted you to talk just a little more about the things that you have seen about changing the sense of community around this issue from the march.

You were just talking about people saying, "Well marches don't solve crimes," or, "marches don't stop people from shooting each other."

But you are building a real sense of community around how we think about this issue, how we deal with this issue.

Talk about over the 16 years how that's changed.

- Well, I can tell you our very first march, we had 58 people.

And it was specifically for the community of Islandview because we had a couple of unfortunate murders of young people.

And we decided we were not just gonna sit back and let them be statistics.

We were going to do something.

So we created an organization to help fight crime and build community.

So it was about doing that specifically for Islandview.

Then within a couple years, it became a citywide event.

And then lately it became a statewide event.

And so it was about bringing the resources directly to the community, to those who are the most vulnerable.

And one of the things that I'm proud of over the years is that so many groups and organization that work on gun violence intervention are part of what we do every year.

So the people who do the boots on the ground work, the people who work with the ones with the guns, the people who work in dangerous communities and neighborhoods, they come and they participate and we share results on what's happening, what's working, ways that we can actually do a better job.

It's all about building community and building people.

- Yeah.

The community that you serve down there at Church of the Messiah has a lot of hope because of the church.

Talk more about the other things that you're doing to again, lift up opportunity and safety and community in that part of the city.

- So thanks.

Because one of the things that we do, we try to make the word of God tangible.

So it's not about just coming to church.

It really is about being a church.

You can come to Church in the Messiah and you can rent an apartment or townhouse.

You can come get free internet, you can come for workforce development training, you can come to find a job in our employment office, you can come and be part of our business incubation center, you can come be part of the marching band, which will help you be able to get into school, you can come use our solar power charging station, you can come to our doctor's office, and you can come to church on Sunday.

So it's one of these things where you can come for all of the different things that you may need to improve the quality of life, to improve your quality of life, and those of the people who are around you.

It's all about being church.

It's all about being about the community and making a difference.

And one of the reasons why we're so successful with young people, because we take the activism of what it is that we believe and take it out to the community and neighborhood and make it happen.

And it's all tangible.

You can see, touch, feel, use it, and be a part of it.

And that's what Silence the Violence is all about.

Resources to be able to build our community so that it is a safe place.

We can eradicate gun violence.

- Yeah.

All right, Pastor Barry Randolph, again.

Always great to catch up with you and congratulations on 16 years of the Silence the Violence March.

We look forward to it on June 17th.

Thanks for being here with us on American Black Journal.

- Thank you so much.

- 10 o'clock Saturday, June 17th.

Thank you so much.

- The Detroit NAACP branch has revealed plans for its June Jubilee weekend, which will include a celebration of the 60th anniversary of the Walk to Freedom that featured Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

The Civil Rights Group is organizing a commemorative freedom walk down Woodward Avenue, along with unveiling a statue of Dr. King in Hart Plaza.

A Freedom Summit is also planned and the weekend is gonna close with the 68th annual Fight for Freedom Fun Dinner with Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock as the keynote speaker.

Unbelievable lineup there.

We've teamed up with Bridge Detroit for coverage of next month's events.

Reporter Michael Walker was at Central United Methodist Church for the launch press conference.

- The reason that we are here today is that Martin Luther King, Jr. preached here at Central several times from this historic pulpit.

The last time he preached here was two weeks before his assassination and his message was about hope.

- Dr. King's march was a march of aspiration about the country we wanted to be, about the city we want to be.

And in the Detroit Mayor's office, behind the desk is a large wall where each mayor has a portrait that defines what they stand for.

For everybody who visits, from neighbors in the city to people around the world.

And for the last 10 years, the portrait that's hung in my office has been Dr. King and that march down Woodward Avenue.

- This is a continuation of the commemoration.

Not just to honor a dream, but to help implement a plan to bring equity and opportunity to all of America's sons and daughters.

The Detroit branch, nation's largest branch, was in the forefront of the Walk to Freedom in 1993, 2003, 2013, and now 2023.

For the past four decades, we have stayed on the course marching towards freedom and justice.

- Our mission has been to do everything we can to help our hometown of Detroit and to provide opportunity for Detroiters.

- Today we are here talking about history and hope.

And I would submit that it is because of our history that we can have hope.

- The walk represents the people and freedom.

And I can't do freedom without justice.

So if you believe in freedom and justice in this land, in this country, in this state, in this city, then you must come out and walk.

- So Camilla, what are you most looking forward to for this year's walk?

- My highlight is seeing all those wonderful faces, the multi-generational families coming out.

From the young to the seniors saying, as a unit, we support the Detroit branch NAACP.

We support hope, we support freedom, and certainly we support justice.

- What do you hope to see from this walk 10 years from now, 20 years from now?

- So what I would like to see going forward in the future is for the economic and the financial and the enhancement of black Detroiters continue to develop so they can become even par with the other groups.

The general market and other ethnicities.

- Blessings are only as good as they're used to help somebody else to be blessed.

So when you get to the table, help to bring somebody else to the table.

Otherwise you don't need to be there.

So we still have some rivers to cross.

We still have some giants to knock down and everybody must be in this game.

- The NAACP Detroit branch's June Jubilee Celebration begins on Thursday, June 22nd.

You can find out more at detroitnaacp.org.

That's gonna do it for us this week.

Thanks for watching.

You can get more information about our guests at AmericanBlackJournal.org and connect with us on Facebook and Twitter.

Take care and we'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) - [Male Announcer] From Delta Faucets to Behr Paint, Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

- [Female Announcer] The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of American Black Journal in covering African American history, culture, and politics.

The DTE Foundation and American Black Journal partners in presenting African American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

- [Male Announcer] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation.

And viewers like you.

Thank you.