♪ ♪ >> Cathy: SECOND DEBATE THIS EVENING WE'RE WELCOMING LEADING CANDIDATES FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

CHALLENGER, REPUBLICAN TAD JUDE WHO IS WHO HAS SERVED IN BOTH CHAMBERS OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND IS A DISTRICT COURT JUDGE IS HERE.

HE FACES OFF AGAINST INCUMBENT D.F.L.

SECRETARY OF STATE STEVE SIMON CURRENTLY IN HIS THIRD TERM.

GENTLEMEN, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

JUST A REMINDER THE FORMAT, PRETTY TYPICAL FOR "ALMANAC" DEBATE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE IMED RESPONSES, DON'T HAVE THE OPENING STATEMENTS, NO PODIUM, STOPWATCHES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT INTO FORCED FORMALITY.

WE REALLY WANT TO HAVE A FRANK, OPEN, ENGAGING CONVERSATION.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IT HERE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU!

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Cathy: SECRETARY SIMON, WE'RE LESS THAN A MONTH AWAY FROM ELECTION DAY AND I THINK THERE'S STILL SOME LINGERING FEARS AMONG MINNESOTANS WHETHER THEIR MAILIN BALLOT WILL GET TO THE COUNTY ELECTION OFFICES, MIGHT THERE BE I.C.E.

AGENTS AT POLLING PLACES.

AND I'M WONDERING WHAT IS THE WORST-CASE SCENARIO AND HOW ARE YOU PLANNING FOR SOMETHING?

>> I HAVE TWO GOALS FOR THIS ELECTION, HIGH TURNOUT AND LOW DRAMA.

HIGH TURNOUT IS A PRETTY GOOD BET, THIS IS MINNESOTA, ALMOST ALWAYS NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY.

LOW DRAMA IS ON A LOT OF US.

AND YOU MENTIONED A COUNTY ITEMS.

THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION I'VE GOTTEN OVER THE LAST TEN MONTHS EVERYWHERE, NOT JUST TWIN CITIES, IS SOME VERSION OF WHAT HAPPENS IF WE HAVE I.C.E.

T THE POLLING PLACE?

AND THERE'S REAL ANXIETY OUT THERE.

WHAT I TELL PEOPLE ON THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE, ONE, WE HAVE GOOD LAWS ON WHAT CAN BE AT A POLLING PLACE AND WHAT THEY CAN DO OR SAY THERE.

AND NUMBER TWO IN MINNESOTA YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A POLLING PLACE.

WE HAVE THREE OPTIONS TO VOTE.

ONLY ONE IS POLLING PLACE ON ELECTION DAY, THE OTHER OF COURSE IS VOTING BY MAIL OR EARLY VOTING.

>> Cathy: ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT ANYTHING STRANGE HAPPENING ON ELECTION DAY OR PRIOR TO IT >> YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO GET OUT AND VOTE.

I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO GET OUT AND VOTE, WHETHER IT BE BY MAIL, EARLY VOTING OR GET OUT ON ELECTION DAY.

AND I KNOW THERE ARE SCARE STORIES OUT THERE AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LITTLE BIT OF IT'S PARANOIA, BUT, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF IT IS SOMETHING THAT'S COMMON SENSE TOO, SO I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE FREE, FAIR, SECURE ELECTIONS.

AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S VOTE WHETHER BE IT IN HENNEPIN COUNTY OR KANDIYOHI COUNTY OR OUT IN, YOU KNOW, KOOCHICHING COUNTY, THEY ALL ARE CREATED THE SAME.

AND HEY ALL WEIGH THE SAME.

>> Cathy: AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WE NEED TO HAVE FREE, FAIR, AND SECURE ELECTIONS.

CAN YOU MAKE THE CASE FOR US THAT THE MINNESOTA SYSTEM LACKS INTEGRITY?

DO YOU THINK IT LACKS INTEGRITY?

>> WELL, WE JUST HAD TEN PEOPLE DIETED FOR VOTING ILLEGALLY.

THEY'RE FOREIGN NATIONALS AND THEY WERE INDICTED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR VOTING ILLEGALLY LAST WEEK.

AND I THINK ONE ILLEGAL VOTE IS ONE TOO MANY.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO HAVE GAPS IN OUR LAW, AND I HOLD SECRETARY OF SIMON RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME OF THEM.

WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, NO PHOTO I.D.

FOR EXAMPLE IN MINNESOTA.

>> Mary: YEAH, WE'LL TAKE THAT UP.

FIRST OF ALL, HOLDING YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR GAPS IN THE LAW AND THOSE TEN DIMES, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THOSE ON.

-- INDICTMENTS, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THOSE ON.

>> FIRST OF ALL, ANYONE BREAKING ELECTION LAW NEED TO BE BROUGHT O JUSTICE, AND THEY WERE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

WE PROVIDED DATA AND INFORMATION THAT LED TO CHARGES BEING BROUGHT.

NUMBER TWO -- >> Mary: AND ALL OF THOSE WERE LEGITIMATE, YOU WERE COOPERATING WITH AND YOU THINK THOSE WERE LEGITIMATE INDICTMENTS?

>> WELL, WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS, PROSECUTORS DO, IN TERMS OF WHAT WE SAW WE HANDED OVER THE DATA.

WHILE ONE IS ONE TOO MANY, WE AGREE ON THAT, EVEN IF ALL EN OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE CONVICTED, OUR RATE OF ACCURATELY AND HONESTY IN OUR SYSTEM EVEN IF THEY'RE CONVICTED IS 999.9999% ACCURATE, FOUR 9s AFTER THE DECIMAL POINT, THAT'S REALLY GOOD.

IF SOMEONE TOLD YOU IN A JOB OR SKILL OR HOBBY THAT WOULD BE YOUR ACCURACY, THEY WOULD SAY THAT'S REALLY GOOD, >> Cathy: HERE'S SOME VIEWERS SAYING, OKAY, TEN PEOPLE, FOREIGN NATIONALS HAT, RAISES QUESTIONS, DOESN'T IT?

>> SURE, YEAH, AND EVERYONE SHOULD ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.

BUT WE HAVE SO MANY SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER ELECTIONS IN MINNESOTA THAT REALLY GET TO THE HEART OF THE SECURITY ISSUES.

AND I'D STACK UP OUR RECORD AGAINST ANY OTHER STATE.

OUR SECURITY MEASURES IN MINNESOTA ARE SO GOOD THAT ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES, A REPUBLICAN SECRETARY OF STATE SAID HE COPIED AND PASTED AND PASSED THEM TO LAW IN HIS STATE.

>> WELL, WE'RE RATED 45TH OUT OF 50 STATES BY THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IN TERMS OF ELECTION SECURITY AND INTEGRITY.

NOW, WHAT ARE THE REASONS WE'RE RATED SO LOW?

NUMBER ONE, WE DON'T HAVE PHOTO I.D.

WHICH I AM FOR TO GO VOTE.

I THINK THAT'S -- >> VOTERS DID REJECT THAT ON THE BALLOT HERE.

>> WELL, I REMEMBER THE VOTE.

>> YEAH.

>> AND, YOU KNOW, THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN MINNESOTA TO THE POINT WHERE WE'VE DEVELOPED A LITTLE BIT OF A FRAUD CULTURE, PARTICULARLY IN GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL WHICH THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS ON, IN FACT, SECRETARY OF STATE IS HERE, BEEN HERE FOR 12 YEARS AS SECRETARY OF STATE.

THEY HAVE BEEN NOWHERE TO BE FOUND WHEN ALL THE FRAUD GOING ON IN MINNESOTA.

THEY'VE BEEN MISSING IN ACTION, THEY DON'T HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW FROM GOVERNOR WALZ, THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE OF VIEWPOINT, NO DIFFERENCE OF OPINION.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BUT THEY'VE HAD LEGISLATIVE REPORTS THAT HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS ABOUT FRAUD IN STATE GOVERNMENT, THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL'S NOT BEEN AROUND.

THEY'RE NOT DOING ITS JOB.

>> I JUST NEED TO AG OFF OF ONE THING.

I GOT TO CORRECT SOMETHING.

SO, YES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS GOING TO SAY WHAT IT SAYS, IT HAS A CONSERVATIVE BIAS AND THAT'S OKAY, THEY'RE ENTITLED TO THAT.

I GOT A BETTER RATING.

M.I.T.

EVERY TWO YEARS PUTS OUT SOMETHING IT CALLS THE ELECTION PERFORMANCE INDEX.

TOTALLY NONPARTISAN, IT JUDGES STATES BASED ON 19 OR 20 CRITERIA HAVING TO DO WITH BOTH ACCESS AND SECURITY.

I HAVE TO EMPHASIZE THAT.

MINNESOTA THIS YEAR IS NUMBER ONE IN AMERICA AND BY THE WAY THE TEST OF WHETHER IT'S FAIR AND ACCURATE AND NOT PARTISAN IS OTHER HIGH ACHIEVING STATES INCLUDE NORTH DAKOTA, NEBRASKA, WITH REPUBLICAN SECRETARIES OF STATE, SO WE'RE NUMBER ONE IN AMERICA BASED ON A SAMPLING OF 19 OR 20 DIFFERENT CRITERIA THAT REALLY COVER THE WATERFRONT AND I'M PROUD OF THAT.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF FRAUD, THOUGH?

YOUR OPPONENT IS BRINGING UP FRAUD AND TYING YOU TO IT AND THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL.

DID YOU HAVE ANY ROLE ON THE COUNCIL TO UP THE SEEN IN FRAUD IS T?

>> NO, THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL DOES THINGS LIKE VOTES ON MINERAL LEASES AND BANK ACCOUNT INFORMATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO, NO, THERE'S NO ROLE IN THAT.

>> THAT'S NOT WHAT ARNE CARLSON SAYS.

ARNE CARLSON SAYS THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE YEARS AGO WHEN THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR FIRST RAISED THE RED FLAGS.

THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR HAD THESE WARNINGS OUT, THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL HAS BEEN MISSING IN ACTION.

YOU HAVE BEEN MISSING IN ACTION ON THAT.

AND NOBODY HAS HELD GOVERNOR WALZ ACCOUNTABLE.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE MESS THAT WE HAVE.

WE HAVE A CULTURE OF FRAUD IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

>> Cathy: BUT AS SECRETARY OF STATE IF YOU WERE TO SAY DEFEAT SECRETARY SIMON, I MEAN, WHAT ROLE WOULD YOU PLAY, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M -- SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE SEEMS -- >> WELL, YOU'D HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION, DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A VIGOROUS, ROBUST STATE GOVERNMENT.

WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE NEED CHANGE AND HAT'S WHY WE NEED CHANGE IN THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ECURITY ON ELECTIONS.

WE'RE THE ONLY STATE IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY THAT HAS ELECTION DAY REGISTRATION WITHOUT PROVISIONAL BALLOTS.

WE'RE THE ONLY STATE OUT OF 50 THAT DOES NOT HAVE PROVISIONAL BALLOTS WITH ELECTION DAY REGISTRATION.

THE BALLOT GOES IN THE BOX AND IS COUNTED AND THEN YOU CHECK WHETHER SOMEONE IS ELIGIBLE.

>> Mary: LET'S TALK ABOUT PROVISIONAL BALLOTS.

>> MINNESOTA IS EXEMPT FROM THAT BY FEDERAL LAW.

PROVISIONAL BALLOTS, THERE ARE A HUNDRED VARIETIES OF IT, IT'S LIKE SAYING I DRIVE A VEHICLE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN.

AND WHAT ROVISIONAL BALLOTS MEANS IN MOST STATES IS IT'S A WAY THIS VOTER WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE REGISTERED AND SHOWED UP ON ELECTION DAY ON A NON-SAME DAY VOTER REGISTRATION STATE COULD VOTE BUT WE DON'T NEED IT BECAUSE WE HAVE SAME DAY VOTER REGISTRATION.

LET ME GIVE AN EXAMPLE.

LET'S SAY IN AUGUST YOU WERE STROLLING AROUND A COMMUNITY FESTIVAL AND COLLEGE STUDENTS CAME UP WITH A CLIPBOARD AND SAID, HEY, DO YOU WANT TO SIGN UP FOR OTER REGISTRATION DRIVE, YOU DO, AND SHOW UP TO THE POLLING PLACE ON ELECTION DAY AND YOU'RE NOT ON THE LIST.

MOST STATES THAT DON'T HAVE SAME DAY ARE OT ON THE BALLOTS, BECAUSE WE HAVE SAME DAY REGISTRATION, YOU SAY REGISTER ME RIGHT HERE.

JUST TO LEVEL SET, WHAT IS VOTER REGISTRATION.

SOMETIMES THIS GETS THROWN AROUND AND WE DON'T DEFINE TERMS.

IT MEANS TWO COMMONSENSE THINGS, TO HAVE SHOW YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE AND YOU LIVE WHERE YOU SAY YOU LIVE WITH DOCUMENTS.

THE DIFFERENCE IN MINNESOTA WE'VE NEVER LIMITED TO THAT ONLY ONE THING, JUST A GOVERNMENT ISSUED PHOTO I.D.

WE HAVE A LONG AND FLEXIBLE LIST OF THINGS THAT YOU CAN USE AND THAT SERVED US VERY, VERY WELL.

>> Mary: DO YOU OPPOSE SAME DAY VOTER REGISTRATION?

>> I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE PROVISIONAL BALLOTS.

>> ND NOT SAME DAY?

>> -- WHAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO BE IN MINNESOTA, YOU NEED TO BE 18, NEED TO BE A MINNESOTA RESIDENT, YOU NEED TO BE A LEGAL U.S.

CITIZEN, IMPORTANTLY, YOU NEED TO BE ALIVE.

YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE ESSENTIAL, THEY HAVE TRUST IN THE VOTE AND WHAT'S WHAT I'LL DO S SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> Mary: WITH SAME DAY?

I'M SORRY, I DON'T KNOW IF I HEARD AN ANSWER.

DO YOU WANT SAME DAY REGISTRATION OR NOT?

>> SAME DAY REGISTRATION WITH PROVISIONAL BALLOTS.

>> Cathy: GO AHEAD, FINISH YOUR THOUGHT, PLEASE.

>> I JUST SEE WHERE WE NEED TO TRUST THE VOTE BUT WE ARE THE ONLY STATE THAT HAS SAME DAY REGISTRATION OUT -- SIMON, YOU KNOW, SECRETARY SIMON ASK A LITTLE SLIPPERY HERE, HE SAYS WELL, WE HAVE AN EXCEPTION FROM THE VOTER RIGHTS ACT.

THAT'S TRUE, WE HAVE AN EXCEPTION FROM THE VOTER RIGHTS ACT BUT MINNESOTANS STILL NEED TO HAVE THEIR VOTER RIGHTS AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.

THEY HAVE VOTER RIGHTS GUARANTEED BY FEDERAL LAW.

>> HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS IN MOST STATES WITH PROVISIONAL BALLOTS, IT PLAINLY AND CLEARLY SHUTS PEOPLE OUT.

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS.

NUMBER ONE, SOMEBODY WHO DIDN'T HAVE, SAY AN UPDATED DRIVER'S LICENSE WHO JUST MOVED IN OCTOBER DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO UPDATE THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE, DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A UTILITY BILL, RIGHT, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO THREE DAYS LATER EITHER OR FOUR DAYS LATER, RIGHT?

PLUS A LOT OF PEOPLE SELF-SELECT OUT BECAUSE ALL THE RACES HAVE BEEN CALLED.

SOMEONE WHO'S TOLD IN MOST PROVISIONAL BALLOT PLACES, HEY, WE'RE ONLY GOING TO PUT YOUR BALLOT IN THE MAYBE PILE, MAYBE WE'LL COUNT IT, MAYBE WE WON'T, IN MOST OF THE STATES THEY'RE TOLD COME BACK THREE OR FOUR DAYS LATER, GO TO THE COUNTY, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE MIGHT MEAN TAKING A HANDFUL DAY OFF FROM WORK, IT DOESN'T, SHUTS OUT THOUSANDS OF OTERS AND THAT'S NOT OUR CULTURE IN MINNESOTA IN.

>> Cathy: LET'S GO BACK TO THE PHOTO I.D.

AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT OBVIOUSLY.

IF YOU WERE SECRETARY OF STATE WOULD YOU GO FOR THE LEGISLATURE -- AS MARY SAID THIS WAS REJECTED BY VOTERS A FEW YEARS AGO BUT THINGS AS YOU SAY HAVE CHANGED.

COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHY YOU THINK PHOTO I.D.

IS SO IMPORTANT?

>> YOU KNOW, I JUST SEE PHOTO I.D.

AS BEING ESSENTIAL IN MODERN LIFE.

AND IF WE'RE HELPING PEOPLE, GOVERNMENT AN PROVIDE A COMPLIMENTARY OR FREE PHOTO I.D., EVEN GO OUT AND IF SOMEBODY'S DISABLED, MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE A PHOTO I.D.

SO THEY CAN PARTICIPATE FULLY IN MODERN LIFE WHETHER IT BE A COMMERCIAL TRANSACTION, THERE ARE MANY COMMERCIAL TRANSACTION WHETHER YOU HAVE SHOVEL SNOW IN NEW YORK CITY YOU NEED A PHOTO I.D., IF YOU GO TO A D.F.L.

CONVENTION, YOU NEED A PHOTO I.D.

THERE ARE MANY PLACES YOU NEED TO HAVE A PHOTO I.D.

WHETHER IT BE OLIVE GARDEN OR COSTCO, HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE.

BUT TO ENGAGE PEOPLE FULLY IN MODERN LIFE, I THINK'S IMPORTANT THAT GOVERNMENT HELP IN THAT WAY AND THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS WE CAN DO THAT.

>> Mary: ARGUMENT AGAINST IT?

>> WELL, THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA HAD SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT AND I THINK THE REASON, I WAS THERE WHEN ALL THAT WAS HAPPENING IS IT'S ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES WHERE THE MORE YOU LOOK, THE LESS YOU LIKE.

I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

WHENEVER I GO TO AN ASSISTED LIVING OR SENIOR LIVING FACILITY I DO A SNAP POLL AND I SAY RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU HAVE A GOVERNMENT ISSUED PHOTO I.D.

THAT SHOWS THIS PLACE, NOT WHERE YOU USED TO LIVE, THIS PLACE WHERE WE'RE STANDING IN RIGHT NOW.

I'VE NEVER GOTTEN A 50%, NOT ONE TIME N ALL MY YEARS.

SO THAT'S REAL, OKAY?

THAT'S NOT JUST THEORETICAL AND I THINK MINNESOTANS SAW THAT.

SO, LOOK, IN OUR SYSTEM YOU GOT TO SHOW YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE, YOU LIVE WHERE YOU SAY YOU LIVE BUT THE CRITICAL DIFFERENCE AND THE SECRET TO OUR SUCCESS IS WE HAVE A LONG AND FLEXIBLE LIST OF THINGS YOU CAN USE NOT ONLY, NOT JUST A GOVERNMENT ISSUED PHOTO I.D.

YOU CANS USE A UTILITY BILL, YOU CAN HAVE A NEIGHBOR VOUCH FOR YOU.

THOSE ARE THE SECRETS OF OUR SUCCESS AND I HATE TO SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, DESTROYED OR COMPROMISED.

>> Cathy: I'M BETTING VOUCHING IS NOT ONE OF YOUR FAVORITE THINGS, RIGHT, JUDGE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, VOUCHING I THINK HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN EASILY ABUSE TOO.

AND THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WE GET SUCH A LOW RATING AT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS BECAUSE OF VOUCHING FOR 8 PEOPLE OR IT'S -- UNLIMITED UMBER IF YOU HAVE AN INSTITUTION.

NOW, THERE'S NO REASON THAT PEOPLE IN INSTITUTIONS SHOULDN'T BE FULLY ENGAGED IN OUR COMMERCE OR SHOULDN'T BE FULLY ENGAGED IN OUR VOTING, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK GOVERNMENT CAN BE THERE TO HELP AND WE CAN PARTICIPATE -- -- >> Cathy: OKAY, VOUCHING.

>> VOUCH SAYING GODSEND FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

TAKE MY DAD FOR EXAMPLE, YEARS AGO MY PARENTS MOVED OUT OF THE HOUSE I GREW UP IN, THEY MOVED TO ANOTHER CITY AND THEY MOVED IN OCTOBER OF AN ELECTION YEAR, THEY DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO UPDATE DRIVER'S LICENSES, DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A UTILITY BILL.

MY DAD COULD NOT HAVE VOTED WITHOUT VOUCHING.

WHAT IS VOUCHING?

IT MEANS YOU'VE GOT TO DRAG WITH YOU TO A POLLING PLACE AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING WHO'S REGISTERED IN YOUR PRECINCT AND THEY'RE VOUCHING.

THEY'RE NOT VOUCHING THAT YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE, OR THAT YOU'RE A CITIZEN, IT'S VERY NARROW, ONLY THAT YOU LIVE WHERE YOU SAY YOU LIVE.

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

IS THAT PERSON LIKE MY DAD WAVED IN NO QUESTIONS ASKED?

ALL OF THE QUESTIONS ARE ASKED.

THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE JUST LIKE WE DID AT ONE TIME , IT'S NOT OFTEN USED, .6% OF OTERS AND OF THOSE NEARLY THREE QUARTERS WERE ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM, PEOPLE LIKE MY DAD, THEY JUST MOVED FROM PLACE TO PLACE.

MY OPPONENT VOTED FOR IT 1973 AND SIX TIMES AFTER THAT.

>> WOW, POLLING YOUR RECORD.

>> MINNESOTA HAS BEEN BUILT ON THE HONOR SYSTEM, WE HAVE.

UNFORTUNATELY WE'VE RUN INTO FRAUDSTERS, WE'VE RUN INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THE TRUST THAT WE -- I TRUST BUT VERIFY, I THINK WE EED TO DO THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY WITH VOUCHING YOUR BALLOT GOES IN THE BOX, IT'S COUNTED.

WE'VE HAD LEGISLATIVE RACES DECIDED BY 14 VOTES.

THEY HAD A LEGISLATIVE RACE DECIDED BY 14 VOTES TWO YEARS AGO, THEY COULDN'T FIND 21 BALLOTS.

THEY COULDN'T FIND 21 BALLOTS.

>> I GOT TO WEIGH IN.

>> THAT'S A PROBLEM.

>> Mary: THIS WENT TO COURT THOUGH.

>> I HAVE TO WEIGH IN ON THE HONOR SYSTEM BIT.

I WOULD SAY THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

ALTERNATIVES TO VOUCHING ARE THE HONOR SYSTEM?

YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO IN SOUTH DAKOTA IN THAT CASE LIKE MY DAD?

HEY, I MOVED TWO WEEKS AGO, I DON'T HAVE THE STUFF, HE SIGNS AN AFFIDAVIT SAYING I REALLY LIVE AT THIS ADDRESS.

IF ANYTHING IS AN HONOR SYSTEM, IT'S NONVOUCHING STATES.

HERE YOU GOT TO DRAG AN ACTUAL HUMAN WITH YOU TO THE POLLING PLACE.

THAT'S NOT THE HONOR SYSTEM.

>> Mary: WE HAVE QUICK QUIRKY QUESTIONS IF YOU WERE WATCHING EARLIER, YOU MAY HAVE A HAT TIP ON THIS.

WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST THAT YOU'RE LISTENING TO?

>> I >> I HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME COMING UP WITH THAT, BUT I DO LISTEN TO PODCASTS FROM NEW YORK TIMES.

>> Mary: OKAY, NEW YORK TIMES PODCAST, JOURNALISTS LIKE THAT, THAT GETS CREDIT.

>> I GOT TO GO POLITICAL AND NONPOLITICAL.

A POLITICAL ONE I LIKE THESE DAYS IS HACKS ON TAP, DAVID AXELROD AND REPUBLICAN MIKE MURPHY, THAT'S A GOOD POLITICAL ONE.

AND NONPOLITICAL I LIKE AMY POHLER'S, GOOD HANG.

>> Cathy: Y'ALL HAVE BEEN CAMPAIGNING ACROSS THE GREAT STATE OF MINNESOTA, YOUR FAVORITE SMALL TOWN YOU VISITED RECENTLY.

>> WELL, I WAS -- BEEN TO A LOT OF SMALL TOWNS AND I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD SAY ANY -- OR THE FAVORITE.

BUT CERTAINLY LE CRESCENT, I THINK WHEN WE WENT DOWN THERE WAS A VERY INTERESTING SMALL TOWN, BEAUTIFUL VISTAS AND APPLES.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD ONE.

>> LOT OF GREAT APPLES.

>> I GOT TO GO WITH GRAND MARAIS.

ANY EXCUSE I HAVE TO GET ON THE NORTH SHORE AND ABOUT THREE WEEKS GO I WAS THERE SPEAK TO GO THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, IT'S JUST BEAUTIFUL.

>> Mary: OKAY, FAVORITE THING YOU'RE WATCHING ACTUALLY ON TELEVISION.

NOT STREAMING, ACTUALLY ON TELEVISION.

>> Cathy: TRADITIONAL OVER THE AIR.

>> TO ME IT'S SPORTS.

TO ME IT'S, YOU KNOW, I'M INTO VIKINGS SEASON.

>> Mary: CAN I CHECK MY GAME HERE?

YEAH, 2-0.

>> WELL, I'D SAY I'M A SUCKER FOR HISTORIC TV SERIES.

AND PERRY MASON.

I LOVE PERRY MASON.

>> Mary: WELL THAT, FITS WITH YOUR PROFESSION, DOESN'T IT?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, I WAS A JUDGE OF COURSE AND, YEAH.

I ENJOY -- >> Mary: I GUESS THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE WANTED TO ASK TOO, BOTH OF YOU, WHY THE HECK WOULD YOU WANT TO LEAVE THAT JOB?

>> WELL, IT'S A SITUATION WHERE I'VE BEEN ACTUALLY PART OF ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, WHETHER IT BE THE JUDICIAL OR THE LEGISLATIVE OR I WAS A HENNEPIN COUNTY COMMISSIONER FOR A WHILE.

AND I THINK THAT UALIFIES ME WELL TO BE SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> Mary: WHY WOULD THAT BE BETTER HAN BEING A JUDGE?

ISN'T THAT SUPPOSED TO BE THE BEST JOB IN PUBLIC SERVICE?

>> I ENJOYED BEING A JUDGE.

I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE ANY PUBLIC SERVICE OVER 10, 12 YEARS.

>> Mary: OKAY, AND ON THE FLIP SIDE, PEOPLE LIKED YOU IN THE HOUSE, YOU SEEMED TO BE GOOD AT BEING A REP, WHY SECRETARY OF STATE, DO YOU HAVE YOUR EYE ON ANYTHING ELSE?

WHY THIS OFFICE AGAIN?

>> LOOK, TO ME I WAS ALWAYS INVOLVED IN THE LEGISLATURE AND DEMOCRACY SSUES BECAUSE I SAW THEM CONNECTED TO EVERY OTHER ISSUE.

MEANING I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR FAVORITE ISSUE IS, SCHOOLS, ROADS, CIVIL RIGHTS, ALL ROADS LEAD TO THE BALLOT BOX AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET PEOPLE INTO THE ELECTION SYSTEM UNLESS YOU HAVE A SYSTEM THAT HAS A HIGH DEGREE OF CONFIDENCE AND WE HAVE THAT IN MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK THE OFFICE OF SECRETARY OF STATE SHOULD BE NONPARTISAN?

>> THINK HAVING IT BE AN OFFICE THAT YOU RUN FOR AND EVEN WITH PARTISAN DESIGNATION IS HELPFUL TO VOTERS.

BUT THE ESSENTIAL THING IS THAT WHEN YOU GET THERE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR POLITICS AT THE DOOR.

YOU HAVE TO BE INDEPENDENT, YOU HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS AND LET THE POLITICAL CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS FIRST ELECTED TO THE LEGISLATURE THE LEGISLATURE WAS NONPARTISAN.

>> Cathy: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> SO YOU DIDN'T RUN AS DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.

AND THE COMPLAINT WAS EVERYBODY AGREED.

EVERYBODY FOUND A SOLUTION.

NOW, WHEN YOU HAVE PARTISAN ELECTIONS, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.

NOW, I THINK THAT'S ESSENTIAL ON THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL.

YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO HAVE A VIGOROUS STATE GOVERNMENT.

SO I THINK YOU DO NEED TO HAVE SOME PARTISANSHIP.

HOWEVER, I WILL BE NONPARTISAN AS SECRETARY OF STATE RUNNING ELECTIONS.

YOU KNOW, I KNOW SECRETARY SIMON WAS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HAVING ELECTION JUDGES FOR EARLY VOTING.

I AM FOR HAVING PARTIES HAVE ELECTION JUDGES FOR EARLY VOTING.

>> Mary: BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME.

QUICK LAST QUESTION, YOUR OPPONENT IS RUNNING ON THE FLAG, OLD FLAG?

COULD THE PROCESS HAVE BEEN BETTER?

>> I WILL SAY THE KEY THING HERE IS THE MINNESOTA, THIS OFFICE HAS NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH TO DO WITH THE MINNESOTA STATE FLAG.

I KNOW THAT'S HIS PASSION, MY PASSION IS PROTECTING THE FREEDOM TO VOTE.

BUT OUR OFFICE -- >> Mary: IS THE SEAL BETTER?

PEOPLE LOVE THE SEAL, LIKE THAT LOON SEAL PEOPLE LIKE.

>> THAT IS A COMPLETE LIE.

SECRETARY SIMON.

>> THE SEAL IS GREAT.

>> YOU DEDICATED A BOOK TO THE NEW FLAG.

THIS NEW FLAG IF THIS NEW FLAG I FIASCO YOU PUT OUT THERE, YOU DEDICATED A BOOK TO IT, YOU HAVE A PECIAL SECTION IN OUR BLUE BOOK ON THE STATE FLAG, DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

>> I KNOW YOU'RE PASSIONATE, I KNOW IT'S YOUR CORE CONVICTION IN THIS RACE.

>> WELL, SPEAK THE TRUTH.

YOU ARE THE ONLY ELECTED OFFICIAL ON THAT COMMISSION.

>> I PREFER TO PUT MY TIME AND ENERGY INTO PROTECTING THE FREEDOM TO VOTE, THAT'S WHAT THIS OFFICE IS ABOUT, THERE IS NO FORMAL ROLE WHATSOEVER -- >> I WOULD RUN FROM IT TOO, STEVE.

>> Mary: WHY IS THIS RELEVANT?

WHY IS THE FLAG RELEVANT TO SECRETARY OF STATE'S RACE?

>> I SPENT 12 DAYS AT THE STATE FAIR AND PEOPLE WOULD COME AND DISCUSS HISTORY, THEY WOULD COME AND DISCUSS OUR NATURAL RESOURCES, THEY WOULD DISCUSS THEY HAD NO VOTE, THEY HAD NO VOTE.

YOU SAY YOU'RE FOR DEMOCRACY, YOU DIDN'T HAVE A VOTE ON THE STATE FLAG.

>> Cathy: I AM SENSING THIS COULD BE ITS OWN DEBATE.

>> IT COULD, IT COULD.

>> Cathy: WE HAVE TO WRAP IT UP.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

APPRECIATE THIS.

WE'RE GOING TO WRAP THIS NIGHT UP OF DEBATE ON THE COUCH, WE WANT TO THANK STEVE IMON AND TAD JUDE ALONG WITH ERIC PRATT AND MATT LITTLE FOR THEIR PARTICIPATION.

TONIGHT.

NEXT WEEK WE'LL HAVE LEAD CANDIDATES FOR MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL JOIN THE PROGRAM.

I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE SOME TIME LEFT OVER FOR SHOW ENDING MUSIC.

REACHING WAY BACK INTO THE ARCHIVES IS A 1982 PERFORMANCE BY MELANIE ROSALES ON THE SHOW "NIGHTTIMES VARIETY."

AND THAT WAS A REAT SHOW BY THE WAY.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

♪ >> LYRICS: AND I DON'T LEAVE THE HIGHWAYWAY LONG ENOUGH TO BOG DOWN IN A RUT PAY 'CAUSE I'VE GOT RAMBLEIN FEVER IN MY BLOOD.

I CAUGHT THIS RAMBLING FEVER LONG AGO.

WHEN I FIRST HEARD A LONESOME WHISTLE BLOW.

♪ ♪ SOMEONE SAID I EVER GAVE A DAMN, THE DAMN SURE TOLD YOU WRONG.

BECAUSE I'VE HAD RAMBLING FEVER ALL ALONG.

RAMBLING FEVER ... THE KIND THAT CAN BE MEASURED BY DEGREES ... ♪ ♪ RAMBLING FEVER THERE AIN'T NO KIND OF CURE FOR MY DISEASE.

♪ ♪ NOTE ♪ ♪ AND SPEND THE EARLY MORNINGIN DRINKIN' COFFEE ♪ ♪ AND TALKINGIN ABOUT WHEN I'LL BE COMING BACK ... >> "ALMANAC" IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH AND HELPING COMMUNITIES THRIVE.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

AND VANESSA DAYTON, THROUGH THE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL MINNESOTANS FUND, SUPPORTING ACCESSIBLE HEALTHCARE FOR STATEWIDE.

"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF MINNESOTA PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.