>> Cathy: THE STATE OF MINNESOTA SPENDS MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON A CIVIL COMMITMENT PROGRAM FOR SEX OFFENDERS THAT CONFINES MORE PEOPLE - AND RELEASES FEWER - THAN ANY OTHER STATE WITH SIMILAR PROGRAMS.

A REPORT OUT WEDNESDAY FROM THE MITCHELL HAMLINE SCHOOL OF LAW CALLS FOR SUNSETTING THE MINNESOTA SEX OFFENDER PROGRAM, SAYING IT IS A FAILED AND EXPENSIVE INTERVENTION THAT DOES NOT HAVE A BROAD IMPACT ON SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

ERIC JANUS HEADS UP THE SEX OFFENSE LITIGATION AND POLICY RESOURCE CENTER AT THE MITCHELL HAMLINE LAW SCHOOL AND HE'S BEEN WORKING ON THESE ISSUES FOR DECADES.

>> 30 YEARS.

>> Cathy: 30 YEARS.

WELL, PROFESSOR, BECAUSE YOU'VE WORKED ON THIS A LONG TIME, YOU KNOW THAT MOST PEOPLE FEEL THAT THE POPULATION IN QUESTION PROBABLY SHOULD STAY BEHIND BARS FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME AND THIS IS NOT A VERY SYMPATHETIC GROUP.

YOU'RE KIND OF PUSHING THE BOULDER UP THE HILL HERE, AREN'T YA?

>> WE ARE, BUT THINK WE'RE ASKING THE WRONG QUESTION IN A WAY.

WE HAVE $110 MILLION A YEAR GOING INTO THIS PROGRAM.

THE QUESTION WE OUGHT TO BE ASKING IS WHAT'S THE BEST USE OF THAT FAIRLY LARGE POT OF MONEY IN TERMS OF PREVENTION OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE AND SUPPORTING VICTIMS?

AND IT'S CLEAR TO US THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS HAVING A VERY SMALL IMPACT AND WE COULD BE DOING A LOT MORE.

AND EVERY YEAR THAT GOES BY THAT WE DON'T DO MORE, WE'RE LOSING OPPORTUNITIES TO PREVENT SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

>> Cathy: WHY WOULDN'T LOCKING AWAY SERIOUS OFFENDERS KEEP SOCIETY SAFE, THOUGH?

>> BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING A CHOICE.

YOU'RE PUTTING THAT MONEY INTO A VERY NARROW GROUP INSTEAD OF A MUCH BROADER EFFORT.

SO WE KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT PROGRAMS THAT SUPPORT VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ARE HURTING FOR MONEY AND IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE.

THERE'S A CUTBACK COMING NEXT YEAR IN TERMS OF FEDERAL FUNDING.

WE NEED TO SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED BY THIS.

SO THERE ARE TRIED AND TRUE PROGRAMS THAT ARE STARVED FOR FUNDS THAT COULD PROBABLY DO MORE THAN THIS PROGRAM IS DOING.

>> Cathy: WHAT ABOUT THE PERPETRATOR?

HOW WOULD YOU FRONT-END TO TRY TO MITIGATE OR TO TRY TO DEAL WITH THE PERPETRATORS EARLY ON?

>> MM-HMM.

WELL, CLEARLY SEXUAL VIOLENCE IS SERIOUS AND ONCE IT TAKES PLACE IT OFTEN IS APPROPRIATELY DEALT WITH IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

WE NEED TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE WHO HARM OTHERS.

AND THE RIMARY PLACE FOR DOING THAT IS THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

WHAT WE'VE GOT IS A IVIL COMMITMENT SYSTEM THAT'S KIND OF GERRYMANDERED TO AKE CARE OF WHAT ARE THOUGHT TO BE SOME LACK, SOME INADEQUACIES IN HE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, BUT WE'VE HAD 30 YEARS TO FIX THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

>> Eric: DO YOU HAVE A PACKET OF TALKING POINTS AND INFORMATION YOU COULD GIVE TO A LEGISLATURE TO -- LEGISLATOR TO SELL THIS?

I THINK IF YOU GO BACK LONG ENOUGH IN YOUR CAREER, OU MENTIONED DRU SJODIN.

NORTHWESTERN MINNESOTA COLLEGE STUDENT RAPED AND KILLED.

AND PEOPLE GO THAT'S IT, I'M NOT LISTENING ANYMORE.

WHAT'S THE CASE A LEGISLATIVE CANDIDATE TO MAKE AT THE DOOR?

>> WELL, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS HAS BEEN A WEAPONIZED ISSUE IN THE PAST AND I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

IT'S BEEN WEAPONIZED BY BOTH SIDES.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT IN A MUCH MORE SENSIBLE WAY, EVIDENCED WAY, IN A COMPREHENSIVE WAY, NOT IN A REACTIVE WAY, THIS IS A TERRIBLE CRIME, HOW CAN WE FIX THAT SMALL PROBLEM?

NOT THAT THE TERRIBLE CRIME IS A SMALL PROBLEM BUT IT'S NOT AN ARCHETYPE OF WHAT SEXUAL VIOLENCE IS.

YES, WE HAVE A REPORT THAT LAYS OUT THE EVIDENCE OF WHY WE THINK THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT SHOULD BE SUNSET.

WE UNDERSTAND IT'S A COMPLEX PROBLEM.

WE'RE THINKING ABOUT A FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM PROBABLY TO WORK OUT THE DETAILS AND SUNSET THE PROGRAM, AND THEN REALLOCATE THAT MONEY IN PLACES THAT IT COULD BE MORE EFFECTIVELY USED.

>> Eric: WHO'S JOINING THE COALITION?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, SOME, YOU KNOW, AND NOT EVERYBODY IS ALL IN ON THIS, I HAVE TO SAY.

BUT WE HAVE BEEN CERTAINLY TALKING TO VICTIM ADVOCATES, WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO FOLKS WHO PROVIDE SERVICES TO VICTIMS, WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO DO TREATMENT AND RE-ENTRY.

AGAIN, WE AGREE WITH THEM ON SOME THINGS BUT NOT ON EVERYTHING.

WE THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A WHAT WE'RE CALLING A COLLABORATIVE PROBLEM-SOLVING PROCESS.

BECAUSE IF YOU TALK TO PEOPLE PRIVATELY AROUND THE STATE, MANY MANY PEOPLE WILL SAY THIS IS A BROKEN SYSTEM.

THEY -- THEY'RE CAUTIOUS ABOUT SAYING IT PUBLICLY.

BUT WE ARE ADVOCATING AN ORDERLY SYSTEM TO BRING OUT WHAT WE THINK IS A HIDDEN CONSENSUS ABOUT THIS PROGRAM.

>> Cathy: SO IF A MAJOR MAGIC WAND WAS WAVED AND THE PROGRAM WAS SUNSETTED AS YOU WOULD LIKE, WHAT HAPPENS TO SOME OF THESE INDIVIDUALS?

>> WELL, THERE NEEDS TO BE A CAREFUL RE-ENTRY PLAN DEVELOPED FOR THEM.

AND HERE WE NEED TO SAY THAT MINNESOTA'S AN OUTLIER.

WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE AND WE'VE RELEASED MANY FEWER PEOPLE, WE HAVE MODELS RIGHT NEXT DOOR, WISCONSIN DOES A MUCH BETTER JOB, NEW YORK DOES A BETTEROB IS, STATE OF WASHINGTON DOES A BETTER JOB OF RELEASING PEOPLE WITHOUT, WITHOUT UNDUE INCIDENT.

>> Eric: DO THEY AGE OUT?

IS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS?

>> WELL, HEY AGE OUT, THEY GO TO TREATMENT, SOME OF THEM PROBABLY NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THEY WERE JUVENILE ONLY OFFENDERS, IN THE SYSTEM AND GOT SWEPT IN, YOU KNOW, IN THE MID-2000s.

SO IT'S A VARIETY, IT'S A RANGE OF PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: SO THERE'S OTHER MODELS YOU MIGHT LOOK TO AS YOU SAY.

>> YEAH, THERE'S DEFINITELY OTHER MODELS.

THERE ARE SOME CLEAR ROAD BLOCKS AND IMPEDIMENTS TO THIS PROGRAM ORKING APPROPRIATELY HERE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

THOSE ARE FIXABLE.

SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INTERIM STEPS THAT COULD BE TAKEN TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND THE EXPENSE.

WE THINK THAT THE PROGRAM ITSELF NEEDS TO BE SUNSET BECAUSE AS LONG AS IT'S THERE -- LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TEMPORARY SMALL PROGRAM WHEN IT WAS ENACTED 30 YEARS AGO.

THAT'S WHAT WE ERE TOLD.

BECAUSE THIS TURNS THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM ON ITS HEAD.

OF COURSE WE'RE LOCKING PEOPLE UP FOR FUTURE CRIMES NOT PAST CRIMES.

>> Eric: