[gentle music] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein and welcome to "Side By Side."

My guest today helped raise more than $26 million for a 100-home community in East Raleigh.

She did it to help families out of homelessness.

She had never raised money before, but she wanted to get involved, why?

She felt that God was calling her to do so, and today we get to meet Molly Painter.

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- [Announcer 3] For 60 years, The Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

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[bright music] - Molly, welcome to "Side By Side."

We all know that homelessness in America has become a major challenge.

You can hardly go to any city and not see a lot of people homeless in the streets, sleeping on benches, on the floors.

Even you go to our nation's capital, you go to D.C., and you see them there.

You go to cities like San Francisco and you see an abundant number of homeless people.

But of course you also see it in Raleigh and Charlotte and High Point and, you know, all these cities across our state.

What is it that's happened in the last decade that's caused so much homelessness in America?

- Well, first of all, I wanna say it's a pleasure to be here.

Thank you so much for having me.

And it's really important to raise awareness about homelessness and it is an issue all over the country.

We have, especially in growing cities like Raleigh or other places that people are moving into, the rents are just going up.

It's really great for business and it's wonderful for some part of the community, but not all parts of the community.

And so people are really being left out of the housing market.

You know, they- - So, do you think that's the primary reason, that they can't afford to purchase houses and therefore become homeless?

Or is it they lose their jobs, they move to another location where they don't know anybody?

I really have read a lot about it, but I'm intrigued into understanding your point of view on it.

- Well, I think there are a lot of issues that certainly cause someone to become homeless.

But from what I've seen, they've sort of lost every connection either, you know, be it a choice they made or some circumstance out of their control, like losing a job or becoming ill. A lot of the women that I know that are homeless, they simply, you know, I think one in six of the homeless people in Raleigh have a mental health, you know, challenge, and so that makes it difficult sometimes to be housed alone, you know, without the services they need to stay housed.

And again, just the market, our housing market is just rapidly increasing and rents are through the roof and it's very difficult to- - Is it a wrong assumption to make that so many homeless people have issues with drug addiction, with alcoholism?

Or is that simply a stereotype that, you know, most of us sort of seem to have?

- Right, I think that is a stereotype.

Of course there are substance abuse issues that a lot of them deal with, but for the most part, I know a lot of women personally that are experiencing homelessness and they really want to be housed.

I think another, people think that they just wanna be homeless and don't want a job.

They want to be housed, they want to work, they want to be the best version of themselves.

And it's just, it's really hard when you don't have a place to have a warm shower in the morning or get a good night's rest.

And so there are a lot of issues that are sort of combined.

- But many cities do have homeless shelters, for example, where they can go get a hot meal, where they can sleep the night or they can take a shower in the morning.

Where am I wrong?

- So, about 75% of the homeless population in Raleigh is unsheltered, which means they're not in a shelter.

There're not enough beds in the shelters, and a lot of times they're on a two-week rotation, so you're allowed to stay for two weeks and then you're, you know, you have to be outside for two weeks just to give others a chance simply because there aren't enough beds, so- - And most of these shelters, are they simply places where you can sleep and get a meal?

Or are they comprehensive in the sense that, you mentioned mental health, that they provide services vis-a-vis mental health or location for housing or finding a job or learning a skill?

- There's a combination of both, but I would say that overnight shelters are typically serving those that are homeless, they give them a bed, a warm meal, a shower- - Minimal services.

- Right, and then there are day shelters, especially in Raleigh, we have two wonderful day shelters that help with the services during the day so they can, you know, rest and use computers and help with job training, whatever it is that they need.

- You know, I have to be personal for a minute, I've always struggled with when you pass somebody on the street who's asking for money or, even more complex than that, when you come to a crossing on a highway somewhere or a crossing of two streets and you see people with signs, "Need a job," et cetera.

I've always had this, you know, complex analysis in my own mind.

I want to help them and give them money because that's part of my belief system and part of what I believe is a matter of stewardship.

On the other hand, there's a tremendous amount of stereotype, a stereotypical understanding that these people really don't want a job, that they take the money, go buy wine and drugs with it and so on.

I don't expect you to give me a full answer on that, but where am I, where are we wrong when we think that way?

- Well, first of all, you are not alone.

I mean, I too when I come to an intersection, you know, exactly what should I do?

And a lot of times, like I said, the women that I know that are experiencing homelessness have lost every connection, and so some days I just simply roll down my window and, you know, say hello and smile.

If I feel led, I kind of just listen to that internal whisper to give people money.

Or we keep packs of food in our car, the kids pack them.

But our goal at CASA is to be able to hand someone a card and say, "Call us and we will help you get housing."

And with that housing comes the supportive services needed to find a job and better themselves.

And and that really is our goal, it would be wonderful to be able to hand out a card and say, "Call us for-" - So, all of your personal work and through your work of stewardship is with women?

- It is, yes.

I know the women personally, I've worked in other shelters, volunteered in other shelters, but the community that we're building will be for men, women, and families with children.

- So now you have, one of the main projects so far that you've done is that you've built 100 homes.

It's 100 homes?

- It's 100, 100 apartments, and we just started construction this week.

- And you call it King's Ridge?

- Yes.

- Run us through that, how did you raise the money, how did you find the land, how did you have the courage of taking the risk of building those?

And more importantly, how do you place, how do you select who lives in 'em?

And I assume they pay something and you have a formula where it pays back.

I'm intrigued to understand how is that different than housing authorities that we have in many cities?

- Right, right, that's a great question, specifically about who's gonna be selected because we could fill it tomorrow.

But my journey kind of started a couple years ago, a friend of mine invited me to do coffee at the Women's Center, which is a day shelter in Raleigh, and we started bringing Starbucks in to them and just sitting down and catching up over coffee, and it has afforded me the opportunity to really become friends with a lot of these women who today are still homeless, and this has been, you know, six plus years since I've been doing this.

And one struggle I just saw over and over again was housing.

There just simply isn't enough for people coming out of homelessness and a lot of times they get housed away from downtown, away from sort of their support services.

They don't have transportation or cell phones, they have mental health issues, and it's just really difficult for them to access the services they need to stay housed.

And so they cycle in and out of homelessness, and I've just seen this over and over again.

And I was reading a book called "The Hundred Story Home" about a permanent supportive housing community in Charlotte called Moore Place.

And the book was really about listening to God's whisper and I just really felt that whisper that this was a wonderful solution for what I was seeing in Raleigh.

And a group of us got together, we took a year to talk to leaders in our community, hospitals, pastors, nonprofits, and everyone said, "Yes, we need this type of housing," and no one was doing it, and we really didn't know what would be next or how it would come about.

We didn't wanna form a nonprofit, we were a group of friends, volunteers, but we really wanted this to happen.

And we got a call from CASA and we had talked to them during our- - CASA being an organization in Raleigh?

- Yes, they are a nonprofit in Raleigh- - CASA as in the Spanish word for home, house?

- Yes, and they've been in Raleigh, they're a local nonprofit, they've been in Raleigh for 31 years, and their mission is to manage and develop housing for people coming out of homelessness.

And they called us and said, "We wanna hear more about your permanent supportive housing dream.

We just bought six acres of land near WakeMed and we want you to come talk to us about what you'd like to see there."

And so they were dreaming big about honoring their CEO who had passed away from cancer, her name was Debra King, and we were dreaming big about 100 apartments, and that's how King's Ridge was born and we came together with CASA.

- Did you get any resistance on zoning, on getting cooperation from the city on utilities, et cetera?

- We have not had a lot of resistance from the city.

In fact, they invested over $8 million in the project.

So it was a public-private partnership, and so the city and the county are involved as well as a lot of just individuals and faith organizations.

And so I'm really just blown away with the support that we've received, and the communities wrap their arms around King's Ridge.

- That's amazing, amazing.

Molly, thank you for doing that.

We need more citizens who will step up and step out and we need more cooperation, private, public, to solve some of these major problems in our country.

Forgive me if I sound in any way less than fully appreciative, I'm very appreciative for everything you're doing.

Homelessness is a major issue and these 100 homes in Raleigh, while they are a wonderful start, they will not resolve the problem.

Obviously you've studied it, you've done research on it, you're being highly engaged in it.

What is it you believe it's gonna take for us to solve the problem of homelessness?

- Well, I believe that housing is the solution.

And housing- - So, your solution is instead of building 100 homes, build 1,000 homes?

- So, we hope that this community can be replicated.

You know, we wanna give it a chance to work and it's modeled off of the Moore Place in Charlotte that's been there 10 years and it's been very successful.

And I believe that housing is healing, first of all, for people, and it's really necessary for people to be able to go out and get a job and better themselves and just be the best version of themselves.

But that housing has to be coupled with the services necessary to stay housed.

- So, if someone gets in one of these homes, obviously you have to have some cash flow, correct, so you can replicate the matter.

Where do they get that money from?

- So, a lot of the women I know they either are on disability because they have mental health issues or physical disabilities.

CASA houses a lot of veterans.

And people have part-time jobs, they just don't make enough money to pay market rate rent.

- So you're gonna rent these homes for significantly less than market rate?

- That's right.

- Roughly what percentage is that?

- It's 30% of whatever their income is and the average CASA- - Oh, 30% of what their income is?

- That's right.

- Not 30% of what the apartment would ordinarily rent?

- That's correct.

30% of the individual's income, and- - What if my income is $100 a month?

- Right, so the average rent that a CASA tenant pays, CASA has over 500 apartments in the Triangle, is about $327, and obviously that is well below market rate rent.

And so, the difference is covered in government grants and funding and vouchers.

And so that's how- - And why is Molly Painter interested specifically in women?

There are lots of men who are homeless.

Is it because women tend to be the ones responsible also for their children?

What drew you to that, besides you being a woman and a mother?

And what percentage is there between, you know, what is the ratio of men and women in terms of homelessness?

- Well, that is a great question.

I always assumed that there were more men, but in Wake County it's about even, so there are about half men and half women.

I think we have 1,500 homeless people at this point, and half of them are men and half women.

And what drew me to the women, just like you said, I'm a mother and I have three daughters and all of them are someone's daughter.

And a lot of them do have children and most have been separated from their children because of their circumstances.

And when I come in and talk to them, they ask me about my girls.

How was their soccer game, how was their test, how is Margaret doing?

My daughter's abroad.

They know my family well and they encourage me and my parenting even though they've slept on the street that night.

And so I just have a personal connection with the women.

But our community will house men, women, and families with children.

So, about 30% will be families and 70% individuals.

- And that's how many, what percentage of, you said 1,500 homeless people in, is it in Wake County or just in Raleigh?

- In Wake County.

- In Wake County.

And what percentage of those might one presume to be families, married men and women with children?

- So, typically a lot of the families that are homeless are a female-led household and they are not of a lot of families that are, you know, intact, so- - So, most homeless people are either men or women, they're not families.

- There are families and that is why we have 30% of our apartments are two and three bedrooms for families.

And there's not a lot of housing for families coming out of homelessness, so a lot of these families are able to pay some rent because they're in the apartment, the, you know, extended stay hotels.

But that's not, you know, a great way to raise a child, as you can imagine, and they have to move frequently and couch surf and- - What happens with these children?

Do they go to school?

- They do go to school.

They do go to school and our Wake County bus system is incredible.

Wherever they are, they will help, you know, get them to school.

But sometimes if they move locations or, you know, aren't able to pay, they aren't able to pay for a hotel for a month and, you know, they have to move and either stay at a shelter or with, you know, wherever they can- - 'Cause you have to go to another school and another school.

- That's right.

And it takes a week for the bus to change and they're doing a lot of shifting around.

- You know, I mean we, there's nobody in America who doesn't understand there's a problem with homelessness.

The challenge is most of us probably do not have a vertical understanding, an incisive understanding of the degree of the problem and the causes of the problem and the sustainable manner in which we may be able to resolve the problem.

What percentage of these people, I'm asking you percentages, I realize you may not have precise numbers, but I'm intrigued to understand what percentage of these people or how many of 'em, typically, let's say 1,500 in Wake County, wanna remain homeless?

We read a lot about that, that there are people who prefer to live in a tent in a homeless community, so to speak, and they don't wanna move in one of the homes that King's Ridge is preparing or that CASA is working on.

Is that an assumption I'm making that is wrong or it has some degree of accuracy?

- Well, I think there are probably a handful of people like that, but everyone that I know wants to be housed, and like I said, we could fill King's Ridge up tomorrow and you had asked about the selection process and that's gonna be very challenging because we only have 100 apartments to start.

We hope to have more in the future.

But our goal was to end homelessness by 10% in Wake County and we'll house between 130 and 150 people based on family size with our 100 apartments.

But I do think that that is unusual.

I think there will be a transition period when they move in because they have been unsheltered for a while and that is why we have case management on site and, you know, counseling services and a medical clinic just to help them get reacclimated to living indoors.

But all of the people that I know, they desperately want to be housed.

- There are many organizations like, for example, Family Services, some independent places that house women.

I know some places that house women that have been abused in a marital situation, some who just take on these families who need help.

Churches do it, universities do it, they step up to help these homeless people.

But your premise is that housing is the primary need that a homeless person needs, clearly, and that they need a job that can give them some degree of stability.

On the other hand, you say that some of them have mental health issues.

How can someone hold a job, for example, if they're struggling with serious mental health issues?

- Right, well, that's a great question.

A lot of these individuals will be on some sort of disability and they can hold, you know, maybe a part-time job or have, you know, but some of them aren't able to hold a job and they deserve to be on the disability because they do have a disability that keeps them from holding- - This disability, you're talking about government payment for disabled people?

- Yes, but we will have mental health services on site because it is a struggle, right?

That even living outside, if you didn't have a mental health struggle before, if you've been outside for five years, there's just a lot of healing that needs to take place, and so that is really important to address that.

And the goal is to just meet people where they are and help them become the best version of themselves.

- Does disability have a limit of time?

In other words, you get disability for X months or years?

Or is it open-ended?

- It is open-ended, but if people get a job and are able to hold a job, then they will not receive disability.

- Then that disappears, yeah.

So, you know, Molly, we all thank you for your caring about homelessness and about women who are in such situations and you are doing your part to resolve that problem.

But we all agree the problem is much bigger than King's Ridge or CASA in Wake County.

It goes from coast to coast and border to border.

It seems to grow instead of diminish.

It seems to be, we seem to have more homeless people and less than that.

In a city like San Francisco, for example, they've had behavioral problems with homeless people.

You know, saying, I've personally experienced it where you walk in Union Square and people, you know, obviously mentally challenge individuals who say language to women and men and children, who use the bathroom in the middle of a street, who do things that are just not appropriate.

How do these kids survive?

Talk to us about the women who have children who are homeless.

I was in Charlotte one day walking early in the morning and I saw, you know, a woman with two kids sort of covered up with a blanket they found somewhere on a bench.

The bench had a metal piece in the middle of it, so they couldn't really just lie down.

And I remember looking at them thinking, and they were asleep, thinking, how do these people really exist?

And what happens to the mental, intellectual, social adaptation of these children?

- I mean, it is, you know, between zero and three is when a lot of our, you know, children are learning and growing and things that happen, they'll keep those with them for the rest of their lives.

And so it is very challenging for the children.

And our hope at King's Ridge is to be able to break that cycle of homelessness.

If you've grown up homeless, you're more likely to be homeless as an adult, and- - Really?

- Yes.

- If you grow up in a homeless family, so to speak, or with a single parent, it is more likely you become homeless?

- That's right.

- One would think the opposite, right?

One would think that you would be determined not to be homeless.

- I think that that's what they know and that's what they've seen and so to be able to break that cycle, it changes, you know, generations to come.

And we like to think about a child who is homeless that has to get to the shelter, you know, after school, you know, these are school-aged children, but you have to stand in line at four with your family to get a space in the shelter.

They can't, you know, stay after school to play sports, and they don't get good sleep and they're not ready for school.

And so to get them housed, their behavior changes, their academics change, maybe they're able to play on a sports team and have a coach- - Their self-esteem, self-esteem rises.

- That's right.

Have a coach that inspires them and mentors them.

And so it really, really impacts generations to come.

- How hopeful are you that in the next decade we will see a significant decrease in homelessness in America?

- Well, I would love to see that and that is the goal of what we're doing- - But I mean, do you see initiatives that are large enough, deep enough, wide enough that can do that?

- Well, I think we're working on that.

And you mentioned San Francisco earlier, and I was talking with one of the leaders in their homeless space last year and she said, you know, "I really believe permanent supportive housing is the solution, and we did not do that early enough."

And so I feel really proud of our community in Raleigh because we are trying to get ahead of the situation before it gets to the point where, you know, we have the problem that San Francisco has.

So I think it's, you know, it's talked about a lot and awareness is key.

So I thank you for highlighting this because I think that leaders and politicians, we all need to be part of the solution.

- Well, I'm encouraged by the fact that you have stepped up and stepped out.

I'm encouraged by the fact that you have a sense of optimism.

And I'm encouraged that, you know, inch by inch life could be a cinch and you're making progress in that direction.

So, Molly Painter, thank you for all that you do and good luck to you on King's Ridge.

- Thank you so much for having me.

[bright music] [bright music fades out] - [Announcer 1] Funding for "Side By Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by.

- [Announcer 2] We started small, just 30 people in a small town in Wisconsin.

75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand.

But none of that would've been possible without you.

Ashley, this is home.

- [Announcer 3] For 60 years, the Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group, great people, smart service.

- [Announcer 4] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.