ANNOUNCER: This program is made by MPT to enrich the diverse communities throughout our state and is made possible by the generous support of our members.

Thank you.

From Maryland Public Television, this is "Direct Connection" with Jeff Salkin.

SALKIN: Good evening, welcome to your "Direct Connection."

It has been six months since Congress voted to eliminate funding for public broadcasting.

Last week, MPT staff members got an update on the outlook for public media from the President and CEO of PBS Paula Kerger.

We had a chance to sit down with the Baltimore native who has led PBS for nearly 20 years.

Ms.

Kerger, welcome back to MPT.

KERGER: Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be here in my Hometown station.

SALKIN: This is a return visit, which we appreciate.

KERGER: Yeah, a return visit with you, so.

SALKIN: This massive cut in federal funding for public broadcasting.

What's been the impact so far, the PBS network level and at this station level?

KERGER: Well, it's a significant reduction.

The federal funding represented About 15%, of the funding for public broadcasting.

But that number is not equally applied, so there are stations in our system, particularly those serving rural parts of the country, where the percentage of Their funding that were federal dollars is at the most extreme, 56%.

And so for stations like that, to lose funding with basically three months' notice, was quite devastating.

So there's been a lot of work that's happened from the moment of the rescission to now, to make sure that those stations have an opportunity to really think about and have a runway so that they can make decisions on how they might manage moving forward.

SALKIN: Does it filter up to the network level?

Will this affect what people see in terms of PBS programming Aaring on MPT?

KERGER: So, some of the funding cuts also impacted us.

PBS, some of them impacted our programs directly.

There were some direct federal money coming out of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that went to some of our series.

And in the case of PBS itself, recognizing the challenges that the stations would have, again, with very little warning that the funding would be cut.

Remember, the last time there was a significant threat to public broadcasting, by the way, was during the Newt Gingrich Contract with America, and his proposal was a three-year glide path for public television to go from a funding level to zero.

This was, as I said, three months.

So, what we did at PBS is we made the decision to reduce our dues that stations pay to us by 15%, which then took that money out of our resources that we invest principally in content.

So, in terms of, well, one example is the NewsHour itself, two weeks ago, closed its weekend broadcast and has now replaced it with two new shows.

One is a discussion show around science and technology, which I've seen the first one.

It looks great, and the second is on international affairs.

But the decision was made to move into those in part because of economic considerations to make sure that we kept the weekday broadcast strong.

SALKIN: Was there any confusion when CPB, we have a lot of acronyms, Corporation for Public Broadcasting announced it was shutting down?

KERGER: Yeah, there was a lot of confusion because I think for years, people would watch PBS and not really understand what is the difference between CPB and PBS and MPT?

I just used a lot of letters all together, and then we could throw in NPR, which is not connected to PBS at all, but is also sometimes confused with PBS.

NPR is principally a news organization, radio.

But I think on the TV side, every time there was anything in the news about the closing of PBS, people-I mean, CPB, see, I'm doing it now-the closing of CPB, people assumed that, oh, well, that means Maryland Public Television is going away, or that means PBS is going away, and we're both here.

CPB itself is going away.

That is an organization that was set up, out of the Public Broadcasting Act as a way to take the federal appropriation and ensure the proper stewardship as it was moved to investment, to local stations, and for content and technology.

And so if there's no federal appropriation, there is no CPB.

SALKIN: If a federal appropriation were to come back somehow, would you need CPB or a similar entity?

And more broadly, is there a political path to restoring any federal support?

KERGER: Well, I am always hopeful that even after this defunding incident, and we heard from members of Congress who didn't fully understand that this was what would be impacted by this particular vote, that there will be opportunities to have resources put back.

There should be some mechanism for those monies to flow.

There may be existing programs, where monies could be allocated, particularly for technology.

There's the NTIA, which is an agency that oversees technology investments and resources that could go to pay for infrastructure, could go through there, or there may be some other entity that's established, but it is unclear what the next path would be if there is, in fact, some federal funding available.

SALKIN: Does this whole political debate, the rhetoric around it, impact the PBS brand?

I mean, the big picture, it's a great brand.

If you ask about trusted media organizations, we're up there with the Weather Channel - they're wrong all the time.

So I think we're number one.

But if you dig a little bit deeper, there's a huge partisan divide.

I mean, the number of Democrats who trust-this is a Pew poll-there's about 60% of Democrats trust PBS.

It's less than 25% of Republicans.

Do you think that maybe has wedged out further?

KERGER: Well, and those numbers always shift, too, because I look at other polls that show a closer alignment between opinions of Democrats, Republicans, and let's throw the independents in here as well?

A lot of independents.

And a lot of people - I mean, we look particularly in our news programs, both principally NewsHour and Frontline.

And if you look at those audiences, those audiences are roughly one-third, one-third, one-third in terms of who's watching.

So I do think that, look, the larger issue that I think we all face is just the fate of media right now and how people think about media and whether media has implicit bias or not.

And I think as a media organization, we sometimes get swept up in that.

Oftentimes people will make comments based on not what they've watched, but what they've heard, particularly seen or read in social media.

And whenever anyone says to me, "Well, you know, I think maybe you have bias," I'm always interested to know where and how do you see that?

Because we care a lot, as I know you do in this program, of making sure that you have a multiplicity of viewpoints that come forward.

That's the role of public broadcasting.

And I think, unfortunately, in the times we're in, people often look for media that is just going to reflect back what they believe, rather than really challenging people to not just think about their own assumptions, but how others might view a particular circumstance.

And I think our democracy suffers from that.

I think we should have good debate around the big issues of our time.

SALKIN: I think it was Bob Schieffer who came up with a term for that.

He called it "validation journalism."

You want to hear what you want to hear.

KERGER: Yeah, and that's not the business that we're in.

We've always been in the business of making sure that we're bringing facts for you.

We're not trying to tell you what to think.

We just want to give you the information so you can make up your own mind.

And so to do that and to do that effectively, you need to make sure that you are bringing together lots of different voices so that people can look and judge for themselves.

>> The good thing is, while we more competition than ever for all these different programming niches, the one where we have less competition is nonpartisan news, because the money is to be made with hyperpartisan, loud news.

That's why everybody's doing that.

We've had this fragmentation and polarization.

We're here in the middle, and we're still here.

: KERGERSALKIN: That's it.

KERGER: And we're also not in the entertainment business.

Jim Lehrer used to say that all the time.

That was one of his tenets.

And so, if, in fact, you're driven by maximum eyeballs that drives maximum advertising dollars, you're gonna make different decisions than if what you really care about is an informed citizenry, which is the business that we're in.

I often say that we are in a profoundly different business than many of our commercial brethren.

We just happen to use the same tools.

And so I think that, again, in this media environment where there feels like lots of different options, I don't see many that are actually doing the work that we're doing.

SALKIN: So that's one really important important that we do.

Another that I wanted to highlight, and you'll have more, is on the education side.

Last week, ten days ago, we talked with the new speaker of the Maryland House of Delegates, Jocelyn Peña-Melnyk.

She was born in the Dominican Republic, came to the United States as a child, and volunteered, and she learned English through "Sesame Street".

KERGER: Yeah.

SALKIN: And you hear that all the time from a lot of people, and there are lots of resources out there, but this is something that public television can transmit over the airwaves.

You don't need cable.

Don't even need internet, you just need some rabbit ears.

And that mission doesn't go away.

KERGER: We're free, we're in every home, we're accessible to everyone.

And by the way, that story is repeated so many times, not just by children growing up, but also their parents, who ended up learning English by watching "Sesame Street" and other children's programs alongside their kids.

Look, when I look at all the work we do, obviously, I care a lot about the journalism, I care a lot about the documentaries, but when you think about the fact that half the children in this country that are of preschool age are not enrolled in any form of preschool, we have a lot of children that, you know, have great opportunities and we have a lot of children that begin to slide behind very quickly.

And so, really, the idea behind "Sesame Street", it was the idea that actually Fred Rogers had when he realized that television wasn't just an entertainment tool, it could be an educational tool, is that we really have an obligation, I think, to those kids, to make sure that the first time they enter any kind of form of school, that they're not so far behind, and so exposure to numbers and letters, and basic literacy and other skills that really help children not only have a certain base of knowledge, but be excited about learning.

That's the business that we're in.

And so, during the rescission, we worried a lot about the fate of our system, but a few months before, we also lost all of the funding that had come out of the federal government for our kids' programs through something called Ready to Learn.

This has been a 30-year program out of the Department of Education that ended.

And so I think that this idea of as more and more children are watching YouTube, and there's some good things on YouTube for children, but there's a lot of things that are not so great for kids on YouTube, including a lot of AI-generated content that may be safe or not, but certainly does not have the same sort of rigor of education.

We work with a lot of childcare experts and educators to make sure that if a child is watching a program on PBS, they're learning something, and they're excited about what they're learning, and they're retaining it.

And so I think this is an area where I am hopeful as we look forward over the next, you know, few months and years, that we're able to get more people engaged around what we're doing for kids, because I do think it's of profound importance.

SALKIN: And that's where the brand is so critical.

I mean, it's PBS content, that means something.

>> Parents trust us with the thing in life that's the most important - their children- and we take that to heart.

And I look at all of our stations, and I think about all of the work that stations have done in schools and with daycare providers and so forth, and this has been the center of what MPT has done.

I mean, I was too old for "Sesame Street", but my little brothers weren't.

They watched it on Channel 67.

It was really important.

I watched Hodgepodge Lodge.

That was my program on.

SALKIN: It was filmed right out back.

KERGER: And it was filmed right out back here.

And it made a huge, huge impact on me.

So, I mean, I think you can't underestimate the impact that children's programming has on young minds.

And I think that's important, and we should all be behind trying to make it as good as it can possibly be.

SALKIN: One of the encouraging things in this very difficult period has been the level of support from viewers like you here and around the country.

I know MPT has thousands more members than we did six months ago.

Is that a national trend?

KERGER: Yeah, more people, I think, realize what "viewers like you" means.

And I think we were talking at the very beginning of this interview, of the confusion between CPB and PBS and everything else.

I think people are also somewhat confused about, you know, who pays for all this.

I think some people think if they have cable, maybe the cable company pays, or if they have been watching us, they think this Corporation for Public Broadcasting government funding, that must pay for it all.

It's always been largely supported by viewers like you.

And I think now people realize, oh, that really does mean me, because this other money is gone, and people have stepped up in unbelievable ways.

And, you know, this will only continue if KERGER:.

.People believe it's important and believe that it's worth investing in.

SALKIN: Let's talk about digital strategy for a minute.

When we're talking about programming for young people, young parents, and their kids, what we call linear media, which is over-the-air broadcast, tune in and watch it, is a shrinking share of the pie.

How do we get better in touch with people who watch streaming video or on demand?

KERGER: Yeah.

So a lot of people watch broadcast television.

A lot of people watch what feels like linear television broadcast television through cable.

Some watch it over the air, some watch it on platforms like YouTube TV, which has a lot of local broadcasters, including MPT.

And then there are people that want to watch specific programs.

They want to watch it when they want to watch it.

You have an app, which is really great.

You have Passport for those members of MPT, which is really great.

It's a large library of content.

But people also watch on other platforms and they watch content on social media, they watch content on YouTube, they watch content on other streamers like Netflix and Amazon, and we try to have a presence in as many of those places as possible.

And we try in the content that we distribute on all those platforms to remind people that this is possible because of your local PBS station.

And we try to remind people that you can also go back there for a lot of content.

So I think the challenge in the media landscape right now is that people are in a lot of different places.

I remember the good old days when you could watch something on television and go into the office the next day and call your friend and say, "Did you see that episode of.

SALKIN: That applies to NFL football, and that's about it.

KERGER: Yeah, that's exactly right, or maybe some of the, you know, maybe the Oscars or something, you know.

But other than that, people are in their own little orbits around the things that they watch, and I think there's something about that collective viewing experience that we miss.

Now, we occasionally have moments.

We just broadcast Ken Burns' new series on The American Revolution, and a lot of people watched it on broadcast or streamed it the same night and then talked about what they were seeing.

But I think that being able to meet people where they are-if someone wants to watch all 12 hours of Ken Burns over the next day, that's fine, but if you want to string it over the next three weeks, we should be able to help manage that, too.

SALKIN: Let's take a quick break.

We'll continue our conversation with PBS CEO Paula Kerger right after this.

ANNOUNCER: Understanding the past gives a sense of the future.

Heart like a lion.

This is the first time that anyone has seen this in 2,000 years.

This is amazing.

Well, I'm excited now.

Pompeii is a battle against time.

You think I'm joking, but look at this.

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Don't let anybody tell you who you are.

I love this.

History teaches us to honor the past.

When you look back, they're like, "Wow, that was pretty special."

This is something that's actually altering the course of history.

You're charged with keeping these stories alive.

Can you feel your moment?

The American Revolution changed the world.

Everybody had a sense of possibility worth fighting for.

What took place here?

It still leaves us in awe.

This is.

We can work towards the equality together.

Wow.

This is the missing piece.

Incredible.

To confront these figures from ancient history is a great privilege.

Dark history tells us who we are, where we came from, and it's all connected, like Lincoln and like links in a chain, yeah.

All I can do is be thankful.

Wow.

This is phenomenal.

I'm really grateful for this.

SALKIN: Continuing our conversation now with Paula Kerger, the President and CEO of PBS and a Baltimore native.

KERGER: Yes.

SALKIN: You grew up, what, 10 minutes from our station at Owings Mills?

KERGER: Yeah, maybe 10, 15 minutes from here.

SALKIN: Yeah.

And you remember this place going on the air?

KERGER: I do remember, and I remember my, you know, coming in for the auction, and I mean, it was a big part of my life.

My grandfather founded WBJC.

He was an engineer and had worked during World War II in missile microwave missile tracking.

And after the war was over, he thought, you know, "What's gonna happen to all that equipment?"

And he requisitioned some, that helped put that station on air.

SALKIN: That tower is right by the Baltimore Beltway, I believe.

KERGER: Drive by all the time.

And, you know, because of digital, you can stream it anywhere, so they now have audiences all over the world listening to my grandfather's station.

SALKIN: Well, let's talk about people dialing in from anywhere via our stream, perhaps to watch PBS on MPT.

KERGER: Yes.

SALKIN: What's coming up as we hopefully approach spring very soon?

KERGER: Yeah, so we have-I mean, this is a big year.

It's the 250th, and so we had premiered Ken Burns' American Revolution in the fall.

We will bring it back.

I mentioned it a few minutes ago.

A lot of people watched it, a lot of people haven't seen it yet.

But coming up in the next few weeks, we have a new children's program, Phoebe and Jay, which teaches kids basic literacy skills.

We have a new series from Skip Gates, Dr.

Henry Louis Gates, "Black and Jewish in America" which is a four-part series.

It is quite an extraordinary project that he's been working on the last few years.

And then, we have a film with David Attenborough, which is really quite special.

Our natural history programming to me is absolutely extraordinary, and this series is called Parenthood, and it really looks at the challenges of bringing up offspring from the perspective of lots of different species, and it's amazing how many things we all share.

SALKIN: Oh, that should be great.

KERGER: Yeah, it's really beautiful.

SALKIN: I probably ask you too many questions about news because I come from the news department, but we're in so many different- I don't want to say niches or verticals-but types of programming, the arts, for example.

Where else do you go for that?

KERGER: Where else do you go?

I mean, we've had a partnership now for a number of years with the Metropolitan Opera, and we bring some of the very best of Broadway to homes across the country so that no matter where you live, or what your economic means, you can have a front-row seat to seeing some of the great art.

But, you know, I've been in this job, as you mentioned, for 20 years, and I've spent a lot of it on the road visiting stations, and, you know, what do people talk to me about when I visit their towns?

They don't talk to me about, you know, the latest legislation being passed or , this or that.

They talk to me about their museums.

They talk to me about the great jazz club that's just opened.

They talk to me about what makes their community unique, and a lot of times, that's the art that's produced.

And to be able to shine a bright light-and I mean, that's one of the reasons I'm so-I'm proud to have been from Baltimore for many reasons, but this is the home of the Lyric.

It's the home of Walter's Art Gallery, it's the home of-this is where Philip Glass came from.

I mean, there's just so much about this community that is so rich, and I think the arts help us find and understand each other better.

When they find out we find our commonalities through music and through great art and great expression.

So I think we should be doing more of that on public television.

SALKIN: You know, I wonder if people in the MPT viewing area, 18 which goes beyond the state a little bit, maybe assume that all the PBS is like this.

Most states do not have a state network broadcaster.

KERGER: No.

They don't.

And, you know, the thing about And, you know, the thing about public television, about PBS that's really interesting is that we are really local.

I mean, people think I run a network-we'll run a network.

>>sort of bottom-up more than top-down.

>> The way that stations came together and what they focus on in their community depends on what's of interest.

I visit stations in places like Iowa and Nebraska, and they're very focused on farming and the farm report and programming that really reflects their community and the culture of their community.

We have a wonderful station in Cookeville, Tennessee, and they do a series they actually distribute nationally called Bluegrass Underground, which is done in a cave, and it's just unbelievably beautiful and great acoustics, and it reflects that community.

And that's what makes public broadcasting and PBS so special is that it's very much not about programming coming from one or two places.

It's about programming that really helps to show who we are as Americans, and that's really, I think, pretty spectacular.

SALKIN: I worry that it's going to become a Blue State-Red State thing, that in Blue States, particularly where there's a state network, it probably gets some state-level support, and we'll be able to weather the storm.

The smaller stations you talked about, the little stations that get most of their money from the feds, they're probably not getting much of anything from the state.

And to the idea that this is bottom-up, you'll see fewer of those programs.

KERGER: Well, I've been part of an effort to raise money for the stations that are the most reliant on federal funding, and even at PBS, I'm getting calls all the time from people that are worried about making sure that we have robust public broadcasting in places like Alaska, and, you know, where the stations- there are no other broadcasters in some of those communities.

It's the public station, and that is it.

And so making sure that we have media organizations in all those communities is something that we all have a responsibility for, I think, if, in fact, we want an informed citizenry.

SALKIN: Paula Kerger, thank you so much.

Can I call this your home station?

Thank you for visiting your home station here in Maryland.

We appreciate it.

KERGER: Thank you, Jeff.

It's great being with you.

SALKIN-That is Direct Connection for this week.

We're back Friday with State Circle and the latest on Maryland politics.

Join us Friday evening at 7.

Remember, you can always see past editions of our programs online at video.mpt.tv and on the free PBS app.

We can also find us on social media at MPT News.

Now, for all of us at MPT, thank you for watching and have a good night.

.