"DIRECT CONNECTION" IS MADE BY MPT TO SERVE ALL OF OUR DIVERSE COMMUNITIES AND IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF OUR MEMBERS.

THANK YOU.

[*] >> Jeff: GOOD EVENING WELCOME TO YOUR "DIRECT CONNECTION".

COMING UP TONIGHT WHAT DOES THE LAW SAY ABOUT DIVERSITY PROGRAMS IN THE TRUMP ERA?

THAT IS AHEAD.

FIRST, THE VETO CAN REPORTS THERE WAS ANOTHER HEALTH SETBACK FOR THE POPE TODAY.

THE 88-YEAR-OLD FRANCIS IS BEING TREATED FOR DOUBLE PNEUMONIA IN A HOSPITAL IN ROME.

JOINING US IS RICHARD HILGARTNER FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS OFFICE OF DIVINE WORSHIP.

FATHER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS, JEFF.

>> Jeff: THIS IS THE 17TH DAY IN THE HOSPITAL FOR POPE FRANCIS.

THERE'S BEEN GOOD NEWS AND DIFFICULT NEWS.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> THERE'S CERTAINLY BEEN SETBACKS ALONG THE WAY.

WHEN HE HAS A COUPLE DAYS OF IMPROVEMENT WE HEAR REPORTS OF A SETBACK.

WE'VE HAD MORE DETAIL ABOUT THIS HEALTH SCARE THAN WE HAVE HAD IN A LONGTIME OF HEARING DETAILS ABOUT PAPAL HEALTH.

GENERALLY THEY KEEP THAT NEWS GUARDED BUT WE'VE HAD DETAILS ALONG WITH VAGUENESS.

WE DON'T KNOW THEY KEEP SAYING HIS CONDITION IS SERIOUS AND GUARDED BUT NOT LIFE THREATENING.

AND THEN HE HAS THE SETBACKS SO WE DON'T REALLY KNOW FOR CERTAIN.

>> Jeff: AND EVERYBODY HOPES FOR HIS RECOVERY.

HE FOLLOWED POPE BENEDICT, THE FIRST POPE IN 600 YEARS TO RESIGN OR RETIRE.

POPE FRANCIS WAS ASKED A LOT ABOUT THAT.

WOULD HE CONSIDER THAT.

WHAT HAS HE SAID?

>> ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO HE WAS ASKED THE QUESTION WHEN HE WAS USING THE WHEELCHAIR MORE FREQUENTLY.

AND HE MADE A GREAT COMMENT HE SAID IT DOESN'T REQUIRE LEGS TO DO THIS JOB SAYING HE COULD DO THIS IN A WHEELCHAIR.

SUDDENLY LUNG CAPACITY, BECOMES A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

AND WHO KNOWS WHAT IS IN HIS HEART.

ONLY HE KNOWS WHAT IS IN HIS MIND AND HEART.

THERE HAVE BEEN STORIES HE DOES HAVE A DOCUMENT PREPARED IF THERE WERE EVENTUALITIES AND IN THE MODERN PAPACY THERE'S THE QUESTION OF WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE IS A DEBILITATING ILLNESS OR STROKE OR DEMENTIA.

>> Jeff: AND IT'S NOT SPELLED OUT, IS IT?

>> WE DON'T KNOW.

IT'S THE MYSTERY AND IT'S UP TO HIM AND WHAT IS IN HIS MIND AND HEART.

>> Jeff: IF HIS PAPACY GOES FOR YEARS MORE OR ENDS IN THE NEAR TERM IT'S BEEN A SEQUENTIAL PERIOD OF TIME FOR THE CHURCH.

>> HE HAS BEEN AN IMAGE OF COMPASSION AND CHARITY.

I LOOK AT THE THINGS HE HAS DONE IN ROME AND THE FACT THERE ARE HOMELESS SHELTERS AROUND THE VATICAN AND MEDICAL FACILITIES AND SHOWER FACILITIES.

SO THAT THE POOR AND THE HOMELESS FEEL THAT THERE IS A PLACE FOR THEM TO COME.

HIS WORK ON CARE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IN HIS GREAT.

AND CARE FOR CREATION AND LOOKING AT ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES AS SERIOUS ISSUES.

WITHOUT FORGETTING THE OTHER KINDS OF THINGS.

HIS TEACHINGS ON FAITH AND JOY.

HIS THE JOY OF THE GOSPEL HELPING PEOPLE TO EMBRACE THE JOY OF FAITH.

THERE'S BEEN A PASTOR'S HEART IN HIS PAPACY IN MANY WAYS.

>> Jeff: MAYBE IT'S AMERICAN POLITICAL THING BUT WE TEND TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING ON THE SUSPECT TRUMP FROM PROGRESSIVE TO CONSERVATIVE.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO PUT FRANCIS ON THAT SPECTRUM SOMEWHERE?

>> IT'S DIFFICULT.

BECAUSE JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU'VE GOT HIM PIGEONHOLED HE COMES OUT WITH A STATEMENT THAT IS BOLD.

HE HAS BEEN WILLING TO ENTER INTO THE POLITICAL FRAY IN TERMS OF THE GLOBAL POLITICAL SCENE AND SPEAKING OUT AGAINST WAR AND VIOLENCE.

BUT HE'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO PIGEONHOLE HE IS A JEWS WITNESS SO THAT MIGHT MEAN ONE THING OR ANOTHER HE MANAGED TO KEEP PEOPLE ON HIS TOES.

>> Jeff: EXPLAIN THE JESUIT THING AND HE WAS THE FIRST JESUIT POPE IS THAT TRUE?

>> I BELIEVE SO, YES.

>> Jeff: BECAUSE IF YOU ARE JESUIT YOU ARE NOT ORDINARILY SEEKING ADVANCEMENT WITHIN THE CHURCH.

>> ONE OF THE VOWS THAT JESUITS TAKE THEY WOULD NOT BECOME THE POPE OR BECOME A BISHOP SO YOU DON'T SEE JESUIT BISH OFTENS WHICH WOULD PRECLUDE CARDINALS AND POPES.

SO THERE IS A BASIC HUMILITY BUILT INTO THE JESUIT SPIRITUALITY.

BUT AS A PRIEST AND BISHOP AND CARDINAL, AS A JESUIT REALLY HE DID FORMATION WORK AND THEN GOT INTO PASTORING AND THAT PUT HIM ON THE PATH TO BECOMING A BISHOP AND A CARDINAL AND BEING ELECTED.

>> Jeff: IF THERE IS A CONCLAVE IN THE NEAR TERM, CERTAIN PAGEANTRY INVOLVED IN THAT FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD TELL US WHAT IT IS FROM THE INSIDE WORLD.

FROM THE OUTSIDE IT'S ALL ABOUT WHITE AND BLACK SMOKE.

>> SURE.

AND IT IS AN ELECTION THAT THE NET RESULT IS THAT THE CARDINALS CHOOSE A NEW POPE BUT IT IS FAR MORE A SPIRITUAL PROCESS AND I THINK OF IT AS A MATTER OF DISCERNMENT.

ONCE THEY ENTER INTO THE CONCLAVE THERE ARE NO SPEECHES, THERE'S NO CANVASING THERE'S NO CAMPAIGNING IN ANYWAY LIKE THAT.

ONCE THEY ENTER THE SISTINE CHAPEL THEY PRAY AND CAST THEIR BALLOTS AND IT IS A RITUALIZED MOMENTS.

THERE ARE THE DAYS THAT PRECEDE THE CONCLAVE UP TO A WEEK PRIOR WHEN THEY HAVE MEETINGS AND DISCUSS THE ISSUES FACING THE CHURCH.

AND THAT'S WHEN THERE MIGHT BE SOME OF THAT WORK HAPPENING.

BUT THEY ARE PRAYING AND DISCERNING AND MOST ARE PRAYING THAT IT DOESN'T FALL TO THEM.

>> Jeff: WELL, THERE'S GREAT ITALIAN SAYINGS THAT GET TROTTED OUT WHEN A CONCLAVE FAKES PLACE AND ONE IS THAT WHOEVER ENTERS THE CONCLAVE AS THE POPE APPARENT LEAVES AS A CARDINAL.

>> IT'S SOMETIMES NOT EASY TO PREDICT AND CERTAINLY IN 2013 CARDINAL WAS NOT AT THE TOP OF THAT LIST.

THERE WERE PUNDITS WITH THEORIES ABOUT WHO IT WAS GOING TO BE.

HE WAS LISTED AMONG A GROUP OF A DOZEN BECAUSE WORD WAS THAT HE HAD BEEN A FAIRLY HIGH VOTE GETTER IN THE CONCLAVE OF 2005.

BUT TIMES COULD CHANGE AND YOU NEVER KNOW.

SO THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF THEORIES ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN AND THE CHALLENGE NOW IS THAT THE COLLEGE OF CARDINALS IS FAR MORE DIVERSE THAN IT WAS IN 2013.

POPE FRANCIS HAS ELEVATED BISHOPS FROM THE THIRD WORLD AND FROM FAR REACHING PARTS OF THE WORLD AS CARDINALS.

SO WHERE THERE USED TO BE A GREAT EUROPEAN BLOCK OF AT LEAST 50% OF THE COLLEGE OF CARDINALS WAS EUROPEAN, THE LAST COP CLAF IT'S DOWN TO LESS HAND 40%.

THE GREAT DIVERSITY REALLY BECOMES PART OF THE GREAT UNKNOWN.

THEY PROBABLY DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER AS WELL BECAUSE THEY ARE FAR MORE DIVERSE.

SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THEIR PRAYER AND DISCERNMENT LEADS THEM THE NEXT TIME.

>> Jeff: I READ OF THE CARDINAL ELECTORS UNDER THE AGE OF 80 THERE'S JUST 10 AMERICANS FOR THE SAME REASON, THE DIVERSIFICATION.

>> AND THE LAST TWO CONCLAVES THERE WERE 11 AMERICANS IN EACH OF THE LAST TWO.

THERE ARE FEWER AMERICANS RIGHT NOW.

BUT THERE ARE STILL 10.

AND SO THE U.S. IS STILL A FAIRLY LARGE VOTING BLOCK.

BUT IN AND OUT AS LARGE AS IT ONCE HAD BEEN.

>> Jeff: THE ITALIANS -- >> THEY ARE THE LARGEST BUT IT'S SMALLER THAN IT WAS.

THE CARDINALS WORKING IN THE VATICAN ARE NOT ALL ITALIAN THEY ARE COMING FROM ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD.

THAT IS WHERE WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE ALL GOING TO PERCEIVE EACH OTHER AND WHO THEY WILL LOOK TO AS POTENTIAL.

>> Jeff: FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVEN'T HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING IN VATICAN CITY OR THE SISTINE CHAPEL PAINTED A PICTURE FOR US.

I KNOW THERE WAS A MOVIE ABOUT THIS.

BUT YOU'VE BEEN THERE.

AND THE IDEA.

>> NOT IN THE CONCLAVE BUT IN THE SISTINE CHAPEL.

>> Jeff: CLOSER THAN I HAVE.

AND THE IDEA THERE IS A DIVINE INFLUENCE ON THE PROCEEDINGS IF THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE, THIS IS THE ROOM FOR IT, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S ESTABLISHED THAT THE CONCLAVE TAKES PLACE IN THAT CHAPEL.

AND IT IS A CHAPEL.

IT IS A PLACE OF PRAYER.

AND THE ALTER IS SURROUNDED BY THE IMAGE OF THE LAST JUDGMENT OF MICHELANGELO.

SO THE WHOLE SPRAYS IS FRISCOS OF MICHELANGELO FROM THE MAN ON THE CEILING TO THE IMAGE OF THE LAST JUDGMENT AND THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT CASTING THEIR VOTES WHICH DRIVES HOME THE SENSE THIS IS ABOUT HEAVEN AND OUR JOURNEY TO HEAVEN AND THE FACT WE FACE JUDGMENT AS PART OF THAT PROCESS.

>> Jeff: AND THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE JOB, A JOB YOU INDICATED BEFORE THAT NOT EVERYBODY ACTUALLY WANTS.

AND IN A DIFFERENT AGE WHERE YOU CAN'T GO TO WHAT IS IT CALLED GANDOLFO AND DISAPPEAR.

>> BUT IN THE LAST TWO CONCLAVES BOTH BEN FIX AND FRANCIS WERE 77, 78 WHEN ELECTED.

WHEN YOU THINK OF BEING 77 OR 78 YEARS OLD YOU ARE ENJOYING YOUR RETIREMENT YEARS NOT TAKING ON A RESPONSIBILITY LIKE THAT.

WHEN THE POPE IS CHOSEN AND THEN ACCEPTS THE NOMINATION, HE'S IMMEDIATELY TAKEN TO A SIDE ROOM WHERE HE'S VESTED IN THE PAPAL ROBES.

THAT ROOM IS CALLED THE ROOM OF TEARS.

BECAUSE PRESUMABLY MOST GO IN AND SHED TEARS AS THEY SINKS IN WHAT THEY'VE ACCEPTED WHAT THEY HAVE TAKEN ON.

>> Jeff: I STILL CAN PICTURE THE VIDEO OF FRANCIS WHEN HE EMERGED ON THE BALCONY AS FRANCIS.

IN WHITE ROBES, LOOKING I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT, BUT LESS THAN EXCITED ABOUT THE OCCASION.

>> I WOULD SAY OVERWHELMED.

AS I WATCHED IT.

IT WAS ON TV AT THAT POINT WHERE I WAS AT THE TIME OF THAT ELECTION.

HE JUST LOOKED OVERWHELMED AND UNCOMFORTABLE AND NERVOUS.

SO BENEDICT LOOKS FOR COMFORTABLE BUT STILL A BIT OVERWHELMED AND HE WAS FACING THE LEGACY OF JOHN PAUL'S.

>> Jeff: BENEDICT WAS MORE A CREATURE OF THE VATICAN THAN CARDINAL.

>> WHO NEVER WORKED IN THE VATICAN PRIOR TO BEING ELECTED POPE.

>> Jeff: THE SAYING ABOUT THE FAT POPE IS FOLLOWED BY A SKINNY POPE NOT LITERALLY BUT FIGURATIVELY.

MAYBE YOU GET MORE OF A VATICAN INSIDER ON THAT CONVERSATION ACTIVE TO PROGRESSIVE SPECTRUM THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

DO YOU THINK THAT MOVES PERHAPS?

>> THERE'S MOVEMENT THERE.

BUT BECAUSE POPE BENEDICT HAS BEEN -- POPE FRANCIS HAS BEEN POPE FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS 100 OF THE 137 ELECTORS WERE CREATED CARDINALS BY POPE FRANCIS.

SO THE MAJORITY OF THE CARDINALS HAVE DOES THAT MEAN THEY'VE AND INFLUENCED BY FRANCIS?

DOES IT MEAN THEY ARE COMMITTED TO SOMETHING?

IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

FRANCIS CREATED THE MAJORITY OF THE CURRENT COLLEGE OF CARDINALS.

THERE ARE FIVE ELECTORS IF THE CONCLAVE WERE TO HAPPEN NOW THERE ARE FIVE CARDINAL ELECTORS CREATED BY JOHN PAUL.

20 SOME BY POPE BENEDICT AND 100 BY POPE FRANCIS.

SO THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF THE COLLEGE.

>> Jeff: YEAH.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS POINT IN THE YEAR WITH EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING ON, THE JUBILEE YEAR IN THE CHURCH, LENT ABOUT TO BEGIN GIVE US A PASTORAL MESSAGE FOR YOUR FLOCK?

>> WE'RE CERTAINLY PRAYING FOR POPE FRANCIS.

THE CHURCHES EVERYWHERE WE'VE BEEN PRAYING FOR HIM AT MY PARISH SPECIFICALLY.

BUT AS WE ENTER THE SEASON OF LENT IT IS A TIME THAT EVERYONE IS MORE ATTENTIVE TO THEIR FAITH AND MORE ATTENTIVE TO THEIR PRACTICE OF THE FAITH.

ASH WEDNESDAY HITS IN TWO DAYS AND WE WILL BE TALKING WHAT MORE CAN WE DO WHAT AM I GOING TO GIVE UP AND WHAT AM I GOING TO DO TO FOLLOW THE LORD.

AND PART MIGHT BE HAVING MORE MINDFUL AND HAVING THE HEART OF THE CHURCH AND THAT WOULD BE POPE FRANCIS' MESSAGE IS TO BE CLOSE TO THE LORD.

>> Jeff: FATHER RICHARD HILGARTNER OF ST. JOSEPH PARISH IN COCKIESVILLE YOU MIGHT HAVE ROOM ON ASH WEDNESDAY.

>> WE HAVE PLENTY OF TIMES TO RECEIVE ASHES AND WE'LL WELCOME ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO COME.

>> Jeff: WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

SIX WEEKS INTO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THERE'S BEEN A SEA CHANGE IN DIVERSITY EFFORTS IN CORPORATE AMERICA.

WE SPOKE WITH UNIVERSITY OF BALTIMORE LAW PROFESSOR MICHAEL HIGGINBOTHAM.

PROFESSOR THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

2025 SO FAR HAS BEEN A PERIOD OF RETREAT FOR DIVERSITY, EFFORTS ESPECIALLY IN CORPORATE AMERICA.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING?

>> WELL, I'M SEEING THE RETREAT AND I DO THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

WE HAD A COMMITMENT TO TRY AND CREATE RACIAL EQUALITY IN THE COUNTRY.

WE'VE HAD A LONG HISTORY OF RACE DISCRIMINATION AND SLAVERY AND SEGREGATION.

AND IN THIS 60s AND 70s WE HAD A CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND THE COUNTRY SAID WE NEED TO TRY AND CREATE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL.

AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

AND PART OF THAT CREATION WAS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND ANTIDISCRIMINATION LAWS.

AND THE D.E.I.

CONCEPT.

HAS ALL BEEN PART OF THAT AND WE'VE MADE TREMENDOUS STRIDES.

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GOING BACK ON THINGS NOW.

IT SEEMS LIKE D.E.I.

WHICH IS A MILD CONCEPT OF BASICALLY TRYING TO FIND THE BEST TALENT, SEARCH OUT THE BEST TALENT WHEREVER YOU CAN FIND IT AND THEN TO EQUITY BRINGING IN INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE A FAIR, HIRING PROCESS.

AND THEN ONCE THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE IN, TO TREAT THEM FAIR.

TO TREAT THEM AS VALUED MEMBERS OF THE TEAM.

THAT IS A VERY MILD CONCEPT.

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE TODAY'S BEEN WEAPONNIZED CREATED INTO A NEGATIVE CONCEPT.

EVEN HAVE PEOPLE BLAMING THE RECENT AIRLINE CRASH IN DC AND THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT'S BECAUSE OF D.E.I.

SO IT'S BEEN WEAPONIZED IN A NEGATIVE WAY.

WE TAKE A MILD CONCEPT TO TRY AND GET GOOD PEOPLE INTO JOBS.

AND WE'VE TAKEN A MILD CONCEPT AND REALLY MADE IT A NEGATIVE.

>> Jeff: WHAT HAS CHANGED, IF ANYTHING, FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT?

I KNOW THERE IS AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TWO EXECUTIVE ORDERS WHICH ARE BEING DEBATED IN THE COURTS.

BUT LEGALLY IF A CORPORATION WANTS TO HAVE A D.E.I.

PERSON COMMITTEE POLICY CAN THEY STILL DO IT?

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES, THEY CAN.

IT IS NOT THAT IT'S PROHIBITED IT'S JUST BEEN DISCOURAGED BY THE PRESIDENT AND BY OTHERS.

BUT CORPORATIONS CAN STILL ADOPT D.E.I.

CONCEPTS.

THERE'S NOTHING PROHIBITING THAT.

IT'S SORT OF LIKE MOST OF THE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PROGRAMS PRIOR TO THE LATEST SUPREME COURT DECISION IN THAT STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSIONS FIRST IS HARVARD.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION WAS ALWAYS PERMISSIBLE.

IT WAS VOLUNTARY.

AND PEOPLE WOULD CHALLENGE THAT AND THE COURT WOULD RESPOND AND EITHER SAY WELL THAT'S OKAY OR THAT'S ILLEGAL.

BUT D.E.I.

IS THE SAME WAY NOW.

COMPANIES CAN ADOPT IT IF THEY CHOOSE BUT MOST COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, COMPANIES THAT WANT TO MAKE MONEY, AND D.E.I.

HAS BEEN WEAPONIZED NOW SO IT'S VERY CONTROVERSIAL IN A NUMBER OF COMPANIES FAR TOO MANY IN MY JUDGMENT HAVE SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO D.E.I.

ANYMORE.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO TRY AND FIND THE TALENT AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO TRY AND BRING PEOPLE IN HAVE A FAIR HIRING POLICY.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO TRY AND ONCE THEY ARE IN, MAKE PEOPLE FEEL VALUED AND A PART OF THE TEAM.

AND NOT SOMEHOW SOME SORT OF DIFFERENT PERSON WHO IS NOT VALUED IN THIS SETUP.

SO IT'S STILL OKAY TO HAVE IT.

BUT MANY COMPANIES HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO HAVE IT THESE DAYS BECAUSE OF HOW CONTROVERSIAL IT'S BEEN MADE.

>> Jeff: HOW ABOUT IN HIGHER EDUCATION?

AND THIS PREDATES THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THERE WAS A SUPREME COURT DECISION INTERESTINGLY, THAT DIDN'T APPLY TO THE SERVICE ACADEMIES AND A FEDERAL DISTRICT JUDGE IN BALTIMORE, I THINK RECENTLY RULED THAT THE SERVICE ACADEMIES STILL HAVE FREE REIN BUT THAT HAS BEEN LIMITED ELSEWHERE?

>> YES, YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSIONS VERSUS HARD CASE.

WHICH IS THE MOST RECENT SUPREME COURT DECISION ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

WHICH BASICALLY SAID WHILE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION POLICIES ARE STILL SUBJECT TO A STRICT SCRUTINY ANALYSIS WHICH MEANS YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST NARROWLY TAILORED, THE COURTS SAID IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SATISFY THAT COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST NARROWLY TAILORED STANDARD UNDER THE CURRENT APPROACHES THAT HARVARD AND NORTH CAROLINA AND SOME OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS USE.

SO THEY MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT IF NOT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY ADMISSIONS TODAY.

BUT THEY SPECIFICALLY LEFT OUT CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS LEFT OUT THE SERVICE ACADEMIES.

WHICH IN MY JUDGMENT, MADE SENSE, BECAUSE THE SERVICE ACADEMIES HAVE A SPECIAL MISSION IN OUR SOCIETY.

AND THAT MISSION IS TO PREPARE LEADERS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY PROTECT THE COUNTRY AND MAKE EVERYBODY SAFE.

>> Jeff: AND I THINK PART OF THE ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU WANT THE OFFICERS TO LOOK LIKE THE ENLISTED PEOPLE, RIGHT?

FOR UNITY OF THE DEFENSE FORCES, YOU KNOW AND I WONDER IF YOU CAN EXTEND THAT ARGUMENT BEYOND THAT VERY NARROW BASE OF THE NAVAL AACADEMY AND THE ARMY AND SO FORTH.

>> SURE.

THAT GOES TO THE COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST ASPECT IN TERMS OF A STRICT SCRUTINY ANALYSIS.

AND THE SUPREME COURT SAID LOOK, RACE CLASSIFICATIONS ARE SUBJECT TO THE MOST STRINGENT STANDARD.

AND THAT STRICT SCRUTINY.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD REASON A COMPELLING GOVERNMENT INTEREST.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE SERVICE ACADEMIES, THEY ARE UNIQUE BECAUSE THEY PROTECT THE HIGHEST INTEREST IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHICH IS KEEPING EVERYONE SAFE.

DEFENDING THE COUNTRY.

SO YOU WANT THE SERVICE ACADEMIES AND OTHER SUBMITTED BRIEFS TO SUGGEST HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT WE REFLECT THE COUNTRY AT LARGE.

THAT OUR LEADERS REFLECT THE COUNTRY AT LARGE, BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT NOT ONLY FOR THE APPEARANCE THAT WE ARE INCLUSIVE BUT ALSO FOR THE ACTUAL WORKINGS OF THE MILITARY THAT PEOPLE ACROSS RACIAL LINES CAN GET ALONG WELL.

CAN BE VALUED, CAN RESPECT ONE ANOTHER.

BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE IN THE FOX HOLE, WHEN YOU ARE OUT THERE IN COMBAT, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT ONE ANOTHER AS BEING UNIFIED AS BEING PART OF THE SAME ENTITY.

AND THE MILITARY SAID THAT'S WHY WE NEED D.E.I.

BECAUSE IT MAKES INDIVIDUALS FEEL THAT WAY.

AND STRENGTHENS OUR MILITARY EFFICIENCY.

>> Jeff: UNRELATED TO THE MERITS OF THE D.E.I.

CASES, I BELIEVE THE TWO TRUMP EXECUTIVE ORDERS WERE STAYED TO SOME DEGREE BY LOWER COURT JUDGES.

ONE OF THEM MAY HAVE BEEN HERE.

ARE YOU SURPRISED AT ALL THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS SO FAR HONORED THOSE ORDERS?

I KNOW PRESIDENTS OF BOTH PARTIES HAVE BEEN FRUSTRATED WHEN SOME JUDGE IN A TOWN THEY'VE NEVER HEARD OF BLOCKS SOMETHING THAT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS TRYING TO DO.

AND NOBODY'S YET, YOU KNOW, ASKED THE QUESTION OF WHAT IS YOUR ARMY?

AND BASICALLY TRIED TO IGNORE THEM.

CERTAINLY HAS HAPPENED BUT NOT FOR A LONGTIME.

>> WELL, I THINK MOST OF THESE ASPECTS WILL BE LITIGATED IN THE COURTS.

AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE RIGHT PLACE TO HAVE THEM LITIGATED.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS D.E.I.

CONCEPT REALLY NEEDS TO BE BETTER DEFINED.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE ADMINISTRATION KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IT'S TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT REFERS TO THINGS AS D.E.I.

I CAN REMEMBER RECENTLY THE TRUMP ORDER TO STOP D.E.I.

FOR THE MILITARY, THEY ELIMINATED THE TRAINING ON THE TUSGYKY AIRMEN'S RESPONSE IN WORLD WAR II THEY KNEW HOW RIDICULOUS IT SOUNDED IN THE SENSE OF THE AIRMEN WERE THE REALITY OF BEING SEGREGATED OUT IN WORLD WAR II AND THEY SERVED THEIR COUNTRY WELL.

THEY ACHIEVED MILITARY SUCCESS.

THEY ALSO HELPED TO DESEGREGATE THE MILITARY.

THEY WERE ONE OF THE FEW GROUPS THAT PROTESTED DURING WORLD WAR II THAT ENDED UP RESULTING IN PRESIDENT TRUMAN'S MOST FAMOUS EXECUTIVE ORDER DESEGREGATING THE MILITARY.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO DEFINE D.E.I.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION ABOUT IT AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU ARE GETTING LITIGATION IN THE COURTS TO CLARIFY WHAT D.E.I.

IS AND WHAT IT IS NOT.

>> Jeff: MICHAEL HIGGINBOTHAM WAS A LOT OF BOOKS BEHIND HIM IS A PROFESSOR OF LAW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BALTIMORE.

PROFESSOR APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Jeff: NOW A BIG FINISH FOR THE CIAA BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT.

HERE'S CHARLES ROBINSON.

>> THE BLACK COLLEGE EXPERIENCE IT'S ABOUT BEING AROUND OTHER BLACK PEOPLE AT HBCUS AND THE FLAVOR AND THE FUN.

AND JUST CULTURE.

>> THE CHEERLEADERS.

I LOVE THE CHEERLEADERS THE COMPETITION EXHIBITION.

>> THE CELEBRATION OF THE OLDEST BLACK BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT CULMINATED WITH THE FINALS AT THE BANK ARENA IN BALTIMORE.

IN THE FINALS FOR THE WOMEN, FAY VETVILLE STATE.

FOR THE MEN IT WAS VIRGINIA STATE UNIVERSITY AND BLUE FIELD STATE UNIVERSITY.

WHILE EVERYBODY HERE AT THE CIAA BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT IS FOR THE BASKETBALL, THERE IS A LOT OF FOLKS HERE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR THE AMBIANCE.

>> CIAA IS NOT JUST A TOURNAMENT IT IS AN EVENT.

AND HERE IN BALTIMORE I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE THEY SIGNED THE FIRST CONTRACT THE FIRST YEAR THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT BECAUSE OF COVID.

BUT THEN THE SECOND YEAR, I'VE BEEN HERE EVER SINCE.

IT'S BEEN GREAT.

>> I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE THIS MUCH GOING ON AT ONE-TIME.

THERE IS A LOT GOING ON.

A LOT OF VIBESSISM MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN OUTSTANDING.

FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS A BLACK EVENT THAT I THINK ANYBODY WHO IS A BASKETBALL FAN OR JUST A FAN THEY SHOULD COME HERE.

>> THERE WAS A SOMBER MOMENT DURING THE PLAY OF THE WOMEN'S GAME WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED R&B SINGER ANGIE STONE WAS KILLED IN A CAR CRASH.

SHE WAS SCHEDULED TO PERFORM DURING THE MEN'S HALFTIME.

THE SHOW MUST GO ON.

WINNING THE TITLE FOR TWO YEARS IN A ROW FOR THE WOMEN, WAS FAYETTEVILLE STATE UNIVERSITY.

ON THE MEN'S SIDE, VIRGINIA STATE UNIVERSITY CAME OUT VICTORIOUS.

THERE IS ALWAYS A BITTERSWEET ENDING FOR THE CIAA TOURNAMENT.

WITH ALUMNI, STUDENTS AND FRIENDS, AND, YES, IT TAKES BASKETBALL TO BRING A COMMUNITY TOGETHER.

IN BALTIMORE, I'M CHARLES ROBINSON.

>> Jeff: CHARLES THANK YOU.

THAT IS "DIRECT CONNECTION" FOR THIS WEEK.

WE'RE BACK FRIDAY WITH "STATE CIRCLE" THE LATEST ON THE MARYLAND POLITICS WITH FIVE WEEKS LEFT IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

JOIN US FOR THAT FRIDAY EVENING AT 7:00 P.M. YOU CAN SEE OUR PAST PROGRAMS ON-LINE AT VIDEO.MPT.TV.

AND ALSO ON THE FREE PBS APP.

FOR ALL OF US AT MPT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

[*]