(suspenseful music) - Culture change in the Cleveland Division of Police mandated by the federal consent decree hasn't yet happened eight years in.

Akron Citizen Police Oversight Board is off to a slow start.

And a new poll from Baldwin Wallace University shows majority support for two statewide ballot issues.

"Ideas" is next.

(dramatic music) Hello and welcome to "Ideas."

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

The Cleveland Division of Police is eight years into a federal consent decree, and it has failed to implement culture change, embracing community and problem-oriented policing.

This according to the Monitor's recent progress report.

Akron's Citizen Police Oversight Board has been operating for seven months, but still hasn't investigated police misconduct complaints, and it won't anytime soon.

A new poll from Baldwin Wallace University shows support for both the reproductive rights and recreational marijuana issues on the ballot.

And a new Monopoly game has been released featuring Cleveland sites and businesses.

It won't be the first time someone goes directly to jail after visiting the Flats.

Joining me for the round table from Idea Stream Public Media, Akron Canton Reporter Anna Huntsman and associate producer for Newscasts, Josh Boose.

In Columbus, State House News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

The Depleted Cleveland Division of Police has failed to embrace a concept called community and problem oriented policing.

Laid out in an eight year old federal consent decree, a federal monitor said in a recent progress report.

There were some good parts of the report, Josh.

It wasn't all necessarily a negative thing, but it really focused on this idea of culture and that Cleveland Division of Police isn't quite getting it, - Not getting it, and if it's a top down effect, the supervisors don't even appear to be following it.

So, you know, going into this, you got a lot of officers, it's gotta be hard, especially with increased crime right now.

There's a lot of different factors here.

I mean, the department's down 300 some officers.

Increase crime across the area.

And then factor in this culture war of sorts between people, citizens, and police officers.

Not just in Cleveland, but around the country, really.

So it's tough to go into work alone, let alone nurture this new philosophy that they're supposed to be doing, which is mandated.

- Yeah, it's a culture change.

The whole idea of doing policing in a completely different way.

In the meanwhile, crime is happening, so you've gotta go fight crime.

Police are supposed to work with residents and groups to identify problems and fix them.

Monitor says it was more of a one-way street of community engagement.

Basically they were having forums and telling people how they're out into the community.

- Yeah, a one-way street.

They're focused on community engagement, but one-on-one doing foot patrols.

There's no partnerships.

There's no substance, really.

That's what the consent decree says, that there needs to be a sustaining relationship.

I looked at that consent decree yesterday afternoon.

It says, "Will develop community "and problem oriented policing model.

"Will maintain collaborative partnerships "with a broad spectrum of community groups," so they can maintain these relationships.

So they are going out physically into the community, but the report says they are simply not having these sustained relationships to take a overall look, and that goes back to the culture.

- Also, one of the big problems the Monitor pointed out was the training the officers receive in order to do this.

You don't just go out and, you know, if you've been trained as a police officer, suddenly you're going to be a community relations expert?

And so there's training that's going on.

And according to the Monitor's report, the training was, let's just say shoddy.

- Very much so.

I mean, a lot of the curriculum it says in this report was skipped altogether or it was rushed through.

There was no engagement, this report says, by any of the instructors.

So, you know, if your instructor is not engaging you and not excited about, in anything, not just this, not excited about what they're talking about, then it's gonna trickle down certainly, and there's no reprimand either for any changing or not following orders from this consent decree or for the training.

So if the supervisors aren't buying into it, certainly the officers, why would they?

- These issues will be discussed next week with the US District Court Judge Solomon Oliver.

He oversees consent decree, and certainly it's not what the city was hoping for.

The city has been for a long time saying let's lift the consent decree.

We did it.

But when you look at this progress report, it doesn't seem very likely that they're close to that.

- No, and it seems as if everyone at this point in the city, from police up to the mayor, just want this to be done with.

Mayor Justin Bibb last August said he's working as quickly as possible to just get out of this altogether.

Look, it's expensive.

There's a lot of manpower involved.

$60 million has been spent so far on the training and everything associated with this.

I mean, and then this is gonna go before, like you said, Mike, that federal judge he appointed to monitor, to keep an eye on this, but with this report, how would this judge then say, "Okay, looks good.

"Let's move on to the next part of the consent decree?"

They're gonna be stuck on this first level.

So everyone, it appears, is not wanting this, but they're not gonna be getting rid of it anytime soon.

- You made reference to the depleted forces.

Another thing to Monitors progress report refers to is the need for the department to aggressively recruit new officers, down some 400 fewer officers compared to 2018.

Some developments to that end this week, police got a pay raise.

The highest ranking and supervisors get 14%, which will raise the top patrolman pay without overtime to $84,000.

It's above an 11% three year bump negotiated last year.

They'll also begin working 12 hour shifts in addition to retention bonuses that we've talked about in the past here.

Josh, this was negotiated with the union.

I'm sure that was an easy one for the union to agree to, a bunch more money.

- Yeah, the money part of it, certainly.

The city, though, had requested 12 hour shifts before.

The union turned them down.

They did not want that.

That obviously changed when a significant race came into play here.

But these officers are working a lot of overtime now.

The city says that's gonna be reduced with this restructured schedule.

There's going to be more people working, more officers working at any given time.

And then certainly factoring in the recruitment aspect of this, this could really, you know, these changes could impact more people wanting to work in Cleveland.

- Police departments compete with other police departments, Anna.

And in Cleveland, their pay was particularly low.

This brings them, not necessarily the top of the state, but brings them back in line.

But Akron, Canton, in fact, the Canton Mayoral Debate that you and I attended last week, that was one of the topics that we need to recruit more police officers.

Akron also down a number of police officers.

This is not just a unique Cleveland problem.

- No, it does seem like, especially in the urban departments, they seem to be having some issues with retention and recruitment simply because they might not be able to pay as well as maybe some of the wealthier suburbs around.

I know that's happening in Canton.

And also, the mayoral candidates were saying people get in to be a Canton cop and maybe they realize what it's like and they wanna go somewhere else.

They wanna go to Lake or Green or North Canton instead, or even Akron, in fact.

That was mentioned there.

So yeah, it's absolutely not just a Cleveland problem.

I do think that's really interesting though about those huge raises over there.

I know the collective bargaining agreement in Akron is up for renegotiation next year, so.

- [Josh] They're gonna be looking north.

- They are going to be looking north for sure.

(dramatic music) - Akron citizen Police Oversight Board has been up and running for about seven months, but has not yet begun the work of investigating police misconduct complaints.

So what's holding up the work of the oversight board and how has the delay impacted community relations with police?

- So there are a few different things that are holding up the work.

One is that, again, this is a very new board, seven months, and they have not had a review board before.

There's not a consent decree.

This was something the citizens wanted.

So a lot of it has been just kind of laying the groundwork before saying, okay, we're gonna start looking into complaints.

But the fact is, they don't have the power yet to actually investigate complaints at the same time as the police department because they need to get their rules approved.

They approve their rules internally, but now it has to go to city council.

So if that would be passed by city council, they would then have the authority to investigate complaints at the same time as the police.

What they can do is they can review investigation.

So the police department has its own internal affairs office.

So what they can do now is they can look at it, and they can review it and make their own conclusion about whether procedures were followed.

- There are some on the board itself though who said, yeah, we should have investigative authority who are now questioning whether they should have investigative authority.

Part of that might just be liability.

- Well, this is yet another delay that I wanted to mention.

So they passed their rules, and they said, okay, so the next step is now we have to get the law department to write this up so that city council can look at it.

And they talked to the law department and were basically warned as they have been many times that the police union's gonna sue them because the collective bargaining agreement, the contract says only the police department can investigate complaints.

So I think some members got a little hesitant after hearing that and are changing their mind.

They're saying, well, let's wait until the collective bargaining agreement is up for negotiation next year.

Maybe we can get that power codified then.

Some members in previous meetings have said, we don't wanna invite lawsuits to the city.

We're a new board.

Some people say the city gets sued all the time.

You know, we'll see.

And some have even said, you know, if we do get sued, I believe we can win that litigation.

So it's all speculative right now.

But yes, some have had a change of heart.

And so when the rules, okay, here's another delay, Mike.

So they're not gonna vote to ask the law department to write up their legislation until they have a full board present.

So I was in the meeting Wednesday, one person was missing.

They couldn't do it.

So they just wanna have everybody's opinion, so that's another thing that's holding them up.

- Meanwhile, you have a police chief who's leaving a presumptive mayor who will take over at the beginning of the year and be elected likely in November.

So a lot of change that's happening as all of this is trying to get ramped up.

- Yeah, exactly.

And that had been speculated for some time.

I even spoke with the presumptive mayor who had mentioned that the police chief had told him several times that he was thinking about it.

Thinking about retiring at least from the police department and going into the private sector next year.

So yeah, lots of big changes happening.

And I did wanna mention too, it's not that the board has nothing to do.

In addition to laying the groundwork, they have to do a report on different procedures of the police department and what they've kind of investigated themselves.

And so they're kind of figuring that out right now, what do we wanna focus on?

Department culture is one of the things they're looking into, use of force, the FOP agreement itself and things like that.

So they do have things to do.

They also are going to start looking for a police auditor.

The city does have one already, and that's the person who actually is tasked with reviewing complaints, but he's been on medical leave.

So the contract's up.

They're gonna start hiring soon.

(dramatic music) - Less than three weeks before the November election, a new Baldwin Wallace University poll has found widespread support for the two statewide issues on the ballot.

One that would enshrine abortion rights in the Constitution, and another that would legalize recreational marijuana.

The poll found 58% support for issue one and 57% support for issue two.

Josh, this Ohio pulse poll could be indicative that voters may change their views as the election gets closer.

This is if you were voting today.

- Yeah, that's right.

This is a snapshot in time, really.

A check, quick check for right now.

So it's interesting to see, but the overwhelming support, particularly on issue two for the marijuana legalization for recreational use, the majority of support there is just all over the place.

I mean, four year college degree, support.

Without a four year college degree, support.

Gun owners, support.

Not gun owners, support.

- [Mike] Republicans, Democrats.

- Yes, so it's all over the place.

So it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens in November.

- I think this is one of those times when you find out how good advertising is, because we have a snapshot in time on this date in October, the election being a month away, we're gonna be flooded with these ads.

Some of them we've seen already.

But I mean, it's gonna get heavy.

And the question is, do those have an impact?

- And politically, I mean, a month away is a lifetime.

So it's gonna be, a lot could happen by then.

I mean, just within the last 10 days, Governor Mike DeWine and his wife Fran came out with a new ad in opposition to issue one.

So yeah, it's starting now with all of this, all these ads for sure.

- Right.

Anna, each of the issues though had sizable blocks of voters who still haven't made up their mind.

So they're the people that are gonna be seeing something- - That's what I was just gonna say.

In both cases, it's about 8% of the people were undecided at this point.

So, you know, and which is kind of small compared to the other big blocks here.

But yeah, I think some people are still on the fence.

But I did wanna point out too, on issue one, it was actually a pretty widespread.

Men and women, younger and older voters, gun owners, people who live in urban and suburban areas were actually for issue one.

And I think the political analyst, Tom Sutton, who was interviewed for this story kind of points out that at least for issue one, the way it's written, it's not just about abortion.

It seems like it could be implicating contraception, things like fertility treatments, miscarriage.

So, you know, it's possible that even if someone is very opposed to abortion itself, they might be thinking about the other aspects of fertility treatments and whatnot.

- What about that, Karen?

The language in this poll was pretty inclusive about reproductive rights, and that's what the amendment is if you look at the entire language.

If you look at the language that's on the ballot, it certainly focuses more on the abortion issue.

We've used the shorthand that it would codify abortion in the Ohio Constitution because that's the big change that would happen.

That's sort of the linchpin of this.

But what about that idea that perhaps voters are voting on certainly more than abortion, and might that make a difference?

- Well, I think people who've been following this know that it's about more than just abortion.

And quite often, we refer to it as the Abortion and Reproductive Rights Amendment.

The poll, which was actually commissioned by Baldwin Wallace, but done by Survey USA really kind of dug into that, I think, a little bit with the language.

And I think that's important because the language is different.

The language, like you just said, the ballot summary that you'll see when you vote is different from the language of the amendment, which, and they're both about the same length, which is really kind of interesting, and that's why the supporters of issue one sued the ballot board for the way that they wrote the language because they say it's not really, it was biased, it was unfair.

The Ohio Supreme Court told the ballot board to make a couple little changes, but for the most part, the language stands.

- It still has unborn child instead of fetus, which was one of the big contention points.

- Right.

And the argument had been that unborn child is in state laws, so is fetus, but fetus is the word that's actually used in the amendment.

But once again, that whole idea that this is more than just abortion.

I mean, both sides will tell you this is about more than just abortion, but they come at it from different perspectives.

The pro issue on people talk about the reproductive rights, the guarantee of access to IVF and miscarriage care, while the anti-ISIS issue on people say it goes too far and have made claims about, for instance, parental rights, which Attorney General Dave Yo's office says the amendment does not address.

- But I think, you know, if I can jump in here, Mike.

I think that a lot of times with this, people realize what's going on here, or at least think they realize what's going on here because of all this shuffling.

I remember in one of the ballot board meetings, Frank LaRose said, now, wait a second.

Even though this language is different, is gonna be different on the ballot, the language, the actual language will be laid out in each election area, in each election center, if you will.

- Yeah, it's displayed.

When you go to a polling place place, you actually actually see it on the wall, yeah.

(dramatic music) - The Republicans who hope to unseat incumbent Senator Sherrod Brown, a Democrat, are largely unknown according to BW's poll.

Who's gonna unseat 'em if nobody knows who the other guy is?

- Well, that's a good point.

The three who are running, two of them are pretty wealthy.

I mean, Matt Dolan and Bernie Marino.

So you could imagine that you'll see ads.

Frank LaRose, according to last fundraising report, really is far behind those other two.

What's interesting also when you look at the fundraising report is to see how far ahead Sherrod Brown is.

I mean, the three Republicans together raised about the same amount that Sherrod Brown did.

So they've got a lot of catching up to do here when it comes to that.

And of course, that money will translate into ads.

And already you've seen Bernie Marino and Frank LaRose kind of going at it in emails and statements from their campaigns.

Matt Dolan's kind left to the side here, which is interesting.

He actually moved up in polling last year and in the final result in March of last year or May of last year for the US Senate primary, he had actually moved up from the bottom all the way to, I think it was third.

So this is gonna be a race to watch.

Sherrod Brown has a longstanding way of reaching voters.

And so, I wouldn't count him out.

And I think this poll is, like all polls, a snapshot in time.

- I was shocked to see that Frank LaRose did not have name recognition.

I'm not sure I believe that given how much news coverage he has across the state and the role that he plays.

- How many people are paying attention to the US Senate race right now besides us, you know?

That's always a thing that's talked about is that people who are political junkies, we know who these folks are.

We live and breathe these folks, we call 'em by their last names or nicknames or whatever.

But I think the average person, especially in this odd year election where there wasn't supposed to be an August election, the November election was not gonna be that big a deal at the beginning of the year maybe.

Now they're starting to maybe pay attention a little bit.

So I think that's part of why maybe the Secretary of State isn't as well known to the average person as he is to us.

- How important is the Trump endorsement?

It was huge for JD Vance.

Now the question is, are all of these folks going to be going after it?

It seems like two of them, two of the three are interested in that.

And it seems like Bernie Moreno is the one that would have the inside track on that.

But how important is his endorsement?

- Well, Bernie Moreno has, in the sense, an inside track because it's his daughter who's married to Max Miller, the Northeast Ohio congressman who worked for Trump and who Trump is close to.

So that seems to suggest that Bernie Marino would have that possibility of getting that endorsement from Trump.

But obviously Frank LaRose is really heavily angling for it.

It would really boost Larose's campaign to have Trump endorse him as he did last year when LaRose was running for reelection for Secretary of State.

Matt Dolan has said he's not seeking Trump's endorsement, but would take it and would accept it if it were offered.

It's a big deal.

It's really gonna be a big deal when the primary comes around in March.

- It's interesting though.

If I can cut in.

It's interesting because Jim Jordan has Trump's support as first Speaker of the House.

So I think it's insightful to see how Republicans are not all falling in line necessarily following Jim Jordan where Ohio could be completely different as if Trump were to pick a Senate candidate that he supports.

- I think the big thing, though, if Trump endorses, when or if Trump endorses one of those three candidates, the people who turn out for primaries are voters who are very in tune.

They're, they're going to be on both sides, the more extreme, typically.

And so Trump's endorsement will carry a lot of weight with those primary voters in March.

- Lemme bring up one other point about Frank LaRose independent of that poll.

He's being called on to answer questions about the decision to move the Secretary of State's office to a new location.

Three people have filed public records request about the move.

The new location would be in the building that also houses the law firm that filed paperwork for Rose's US Senate campaign.

Karen, LaRose said in a statement, he's been looking into the relocation since he took office in 2019, but people are saying this seems a little fishy.

- Yeah, there are a lot of questions about this.

I mean, it's not unheard of for offices to move, but it's interesting that in all of the space that is available in downtown Columbus, and there's a fair amount of office space available, that he chose the same building that happens to house the law firm that filed his paperwork for the US Senate.

- [Mike] I mean, that's not illegal, right, to be in the same building?

- No, it's not illegal.

It's just an interesting thing to note.

And LaRose said that this, again, has been in the works for a while.

He says it's gonna save the state money.

Interestingly enough, he said a couple weeks ago that it was gonna save the state $11,000 a year.

It's gonna be $600,000 in initial cost to move the office, which he says is gonna be paid for by business filing fees.

But $11,000 a year.

In a statement he gave to me earlier this week, he says it's $56,000 a year.

So I've asked for clarification on that and haven't gotten any.

(dramatic music) - The Ohio Senate is considering a bill that would give privacy protections to elections workers to prevent them from being stalked.

Karen, this is a situation where poll workers, again, the changing tenor of politics in our country, poll workers are feeling unsafe and being targeted.

This is one way to help protect them.

- Right, and the concern is, not only for the safety of poll workers, but also for the lack of and the loss of experience and institutional knowledge when you lose these veteran poll workers because they're afraid of their own, they're afraid for their own safety.

And so this is a bill that would try to shield that information so these poll workers couldn't be stalked at home, which apparently has happened according to Aaron Ackerman who's the head of the Elections Association, Elections Officials Association.

I mean, it's really sad that we're at that state, and especially when we're trying to get more people interested in the process, get more people to serve as poll workers.

The concern about making sure that they're safe is very real.

(dramatic music) - Lawmakers at the local and state level are taking steps to protect sports officials and referees from out of control fans.

Karen, any indication whether or not that's something that would get traction?

- Apparently it's out of committee, so that means that it's probably gonna go to the floor.

And this is the kind of thing that I think a lot of people would be supportive of, but certainly the details are important.

- In Tuscarawas County at a ninth grade football game, New Philadelphia, another one.

We keep getting these things happening.

- Yeah.

I mean, if you watch the video, this guy, a fan was, it's unclear exactly how it started, but he was sitting on an opposing side, got in people's face, started punching people.

And then as he was leaving, he actually hit a fan, another person as he was driving.

- [Mike] Oh, with his car, yeah.

- With his car.

And when he got pulled over, he said he didn't realize that he had hit somebody, but he couldn't explain the damage to his car.

- And he said that I was just cheering my kids on and then suddenly people were mad.

- He said somebody else got in his face first and that he was afraid, and so he was leaving.

And I don't know if you guys can share, is it getting worse and worse, do you feel like, anecdotally?

- It feels like it.

It feels like when my kids were young, and they're in their twenties now.

I mean, there were spirited people.

I was one of them.

You know, you're cheering and you're yelling that that was a bad call.

You know, that kid traveled or he followed my kid.

That happens.

Then you kind of realize, wait a minute, how loud am I getting at this sixth grade basketball?

- Well, and even my little nephew playing peewee football.

The coach was getting a little tense, a little tough to the point where parents had to say something.

- [Anna] Really?

- So calm it down, bring it down a little bit.

This is just a game.

- It happens.

(dramatic music) You'll find some of Cleveland's biggest tourism gems and more on the new Cleveland edition of Monopoly.

Like Asia Town, Brown Stadium, the Flats and Terminal Tower.

But where the heck is Playhouse Square?

What'd you think, Josh?

- Well, I was just, you know, they were missing a lot of things.

As I was looking there, I thought, wait a second.

Where's Malley's or where's Playhouse Square?

- [Anna] Playhouse Square.

You could've done something with the Chandelier.

That would've been so cool.

- Something like that.

Of course, Idea Stream.

But I was a little surprised, and I wondered the methodology as to how, my first instinct was, well, they paid.

They paid for it.

So, I don't know.

Is it a true representation of Cleveland?

Mmm, maybe - It sounds like what we need is a bigger Monopoly board.

- [Josh] Good point.

- I mean, there were a lot of places that were in there.

I saw Scene had a lot of fun with it and was talking about why not the Cuyahoga County Jail?

That's a good site we should have in there.

- Well, yeah, because when you go directly to jail, it could have been that, right?

- Exactly.

(dramatic music) Monday on "The Sound of Ideas" on 897 WKSU, we'll bring you a debate between the eight candidates vying for three Akron School board seats.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you so much for watching and stay safe.

(soft music) (bright music)