[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're joined once again by Jonathan Koppell, who is the President of Montclair State University, my alma mater.

Good to see you, Mr. President.

- Very good to see you, Steve.

Thank you for having me.

- You got it, listen, I happen to live in an area right around Montclair State and Bloomfield, what was Bloomfield College, historic significant merger between Montclair State University, Bloomfield College, what is it?

What's the new name on their end?

And why is it potentially a national model, please?

- Yeah, it's an important thing.

So Bloomfield College, as you know, but just to give a little background for the viewers, Bloomfield College was on the precipice of having to shut down.

It just was not, it's not a sustainable business model to operate a very small college independently, and then the one-two of COVID and financial difficulties, it's just a lot.

And so the president there said, "Hey, we're not gonna make it.

"The mission is too important "for us to sorta stand on pride.

"Is there anybody who has ideas "about what we could do together?"

And we and others answered the call, but the fit was so important and just didn't, it just didn't seem right for us.

Montclair State University, as you know well, an institution that prides itself on being inclusive, being accessible, creating high quality educational pathways, and we'll come to that in this conversation, that transform lives, for us to sit there and watch the state's only predominantly Black institution.

We don't have any HBCUs, this is the closest we have to it.

- Absolutely.

- To just say, "Well, that's a shame."

That didn't make any sense, so we set about incorporating Bloomfield into Montclair, complex process.

We had to get laws passed by the legislature.

We had to go to the federal government.

We had to deal with the NCAA.

I mean, it's a lot, and we're well into that process.

Bloomfield College of Montclair State University, as it is now known, it's still operating, it's still enrolling students.

We did it in such a way to minimize the interruption to students.

We were able to retain most of the faculty and staff, not 100%, unfortunately, but this is reality.

And we are excited about not just maintaining it, but actually building something that's even much stronger, and that is a distinctive liberal arts college that thrives precisely because it's part of this big comprehensive public research university, so there are now more opportunities than ever before.

- And let me also do this, a shout out to Montclair State University, "US News and World Report," number seven nationally.

And finish that sentence, number seven, I don't wanna get this wrong, Jonathan, number seven, as it relates to?

- Social mobility.

This is the key, this is the key.

This is what we're about, right.

This is making the American dream real.

So we're ranked number seven because the success of our students who are Pell eligible, which means they come from a low income family who are the first in their family to go to college, the success of our students exceeds all but six other institutions nationally.

- In the nation.

- And it puts the lie, and I know you wanna talk about this, it puts the lie to the idea that, oh, college isn't worth it, and it doesn't make it.

That's something that people who have college degrees say.

- Let's, Jonathan, I'm sorry for, I'm not gonna promote this anymore.

It's an opinion, it's a comprehensive piece "The New York Times Magazine" piece put out, not you.

Okay, it's catchy, but the total message here is that economically, it doesn't make sense anymore.

It did 10, 15, 20 years ago, but with college debt being what it is, college tuition being what it is, it's not the deal it was before and not that big a deal to get a college degree.

For those of us who have it and advanced degrees, I'm convinced, I'm not gonna do a commercial for college, but I'll say this, there's no way I would have the career that I have, whatever modicum of success there is without.

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

- No, people are mixing, people are mixing a lotta different things together.

So first of all, does everybody need to go to college?

No.

Can you have a very successful, prosperous life without going to college?

Yes.

- True.

- And the examples that people often give, you could go, you could be an electrician, you could be a builder, you could go into- absolutely true, absolutely true.

All that being said, the basic premise, are you more likely to have success, as you just said, Steve, are you more likely to have success?

Does it pay off in the long run if you go to college?

The answer is unequivocally, 100%, yes.

Now, there are issues, right.

If you start college, but don't finish.

All right, now you might be in trouble.

So you gotta be sure that you choose the right place and that the college is doing everything in its power to make sure you succeed.

That's why I'm so proud to be part of Montclair, because we take that responsibility really seriously.

Like, if we accept you and say, "You're capable of finishing college," it's on us.

It's on us to support you and get you there.

But if you do, every study shows the payoff is unambiguous.

And that ranking that you talked about.

- Social mobility.

- Exactly at that, right.

Like what's the payoff on the degree?

You get the degree, and "The Wall Street Journal" also studied us and said we're the 4th best school in New Jersey, the number 37th public, because the time to pay off the debt that you accumulate is among the least nationally.

Like, you can slice and dice this a lotta different ways, but as I say, many of the people who say college isn't worth it have college degrees.

- Yep, real quick follow up on this.

The Executive Producer of our programming today of "State of Affairs," Jackie Heyer, a Montclair State graduate, someone who I happened to teach when I was teaching a media journalism course there.

Jacqui Tricarico, our Executive Producer of "Think Tank" and co-anchor of our series "Remember Them."

Listen, when we're talking about college, it's not about me or us.

We also met, they met me, I saw something in them.

What we're also missing is the connections, the relationships that get developed with faculty members and others, and it's not just about Montclair State, but those introductions, those relationships, those connections matter.

Please, Mr. President.

- So first of all, it's not just about Montclair State University.

New Jerseyans should be really proud that many of our public institutions ranked highly nationally.

This should be a point of pride for our state, and I don't want it to just be about us because my colleagues deserve a lotta credit.

I don't mean just presidents.

I mean the faculty, the staff, the people who have done this great work, and the point needs to be reinforced.

You don't need to leave New Jersey to get a great college degree.

We have amazing institutions here.

And you're 100% right, the payoff is you're building your professional networks.

You're meeting the people who are gonna be your contacts, who are gonna get you jobs.

And let me be a little more philosophical for a second.

Part of going to college is also to start to see new possibilities for your life that you might not have even known existed.

You might not have known that you could go into a job that would allow you to travel, or that would allow you to be a writer, or that would allow to use your creative side, because we are all, to some degree, limited by what we see and what we know.

And part of college is broadening out your experiences.

And, if we deny people that, sure, can they live a productive life?

Of course, they can, but they might not realize all the things that they could be without that experience.

- It's well said, and this has been part of, this interview with Jonathan Koppell, the President of Montclair State University, is part of a long standing series, that we started and is not gonna end any time soon, simply called The Future of Higher Education.

And the next time you join us, Mr. President, let's talk about the impact of the Supreme Court, United States Supreme Court decision on affirmative action, because it's gonna play out over time, and we need to understand that on every level.

Thank you so much, and to you and the family.

- I appreciate you spending so much time on this.

There's nothing more important.

- Agreed.

I'm Steve Adubato, that's the President of Montclair State, Jonathan Koppell.

We'll see you next time.

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