- And good evening.

You've got More Than Money, you've got Gene Dickison, your host, your personal financial adviser.

But for the next half an hour, I'm your questioner.

I'm the person who asks the questions of somebody that you, if you had the chance, would really love to sit down and spend some time asking your own questions.

So if you'll give me the courtesy of allowing me to be your agent this evening, be your representative in a wonderful conversation with, in all honesty, a person that I have tremendous respect for, who has been a guest on our show previously, and with her new book, breaks new ground in so many areas that you want to know about.

So if you are kind enough to give me that courtesy, I would appreciate that.

In future shows, of course, we answer many of your questions that you send us about your financial life, investments, income taxes, estate planning, legacy, lots of different topics that are very, very valuable to you.

Send me those e-mails, send us to Gene@askMTM.com Some of you have been sending them directly to the PBS station.

That takes a few extra days for them to get back over to me.

If you want to go direct to the source, so to speak, it's Gene@askMTM.com We can't answer every question on air, but we answer every question that we receive.

We have had a few caught up in our spam filters, so watch your language when you're sending those out.

Have some fun, but enjoy it and we'll get you good information as well.

Folks, for the next few moments, I have the pleasure of introducing you to, again, a friend of PBS39, a friend of More Than Money and if not already, soon to be a friend of yours.

And I want to welcome back to More Than Money Anne Beiler.

Anne, welcome back.

- Hi, Gene, and thank you for the opportunity.

Again, it is truly an honor for me.

- Well, the honor, I assure you, is all mine.

And I should say, in the interest of full disclosure, not only have I read Anne's books and enjoyed - and this last one, Overcome and Lead, is fabulous, you'll hear more about that here shortly - but not many weeks ago, I sat in an audience of over 600 at Mount Airy Casino and Convention Center as we welcomed to our Pocono Leadership Prayer Breakfast Anne, and she spoke from her heart and it was received from the heart.

Anne, I hope you enjoyed that experience as much as we did.

- You know, Gene I was, I have to say, pretty overwhelmed with the response that I got from the participants as I was signing books.

And it really gives me great joy and pleasure when I feel like there's been, it's like an audience that is open and willing just to hear my story.

And in all of that, I really do want to be an encouragement in the world of business and in the lives of people.

And I feel like that was an experience at the prayer breakfast that I'll never forget.

- And for the audience as well, I can assure you, we had about 600 people in the audience and when Anne asked how many of you have had Auntie Anne's pretzels, five lonely souls raised their hands.

We're going to get that fixed.

It simply can't be allowed to stand.

- I agree.

- Anne mentioned signing her book.

Overcome And Lead is a powerful book on many different levels.

Don't be misled by the slim nature of the book.

You might say, well, this is a nice little book.

It has packed full of content on lots of different levels.

All of you know, Auntie Anne's Pretzels, all of you have had that wonderful experience.

The book is very similar to a pretzel in that it's...absolutely it's warm and delicious, but it's surprisingly satisfying on so many different levels.

I think you're going to find that that analogy fits really, really well.

The backstory of having serious challenges, overcoming serious challenges is not only Anne's story, it's not only Gene's story, it's everyone's story.

The challenge definition might be a little different, I think Anne would agree, but Anne, I think you're speaking to all of us, aren't you?

- You know, human nature... You know, the way we behave, the way we think, the way we respond, it really crosses over every cultural barrier, boundary.

And, yeah, we're all in this boat, I want to call it, together.

And yet many times we feel like I am so different than you.

Culturally, in many ways we are.

But at the heart of who we are, we all have the same longings and the needs and the desires and to...maybe to have a better life or to be able to overcome or, you know, to be able to be strong enough to be who God really wants us to be.

So all of those challenges, many, many, many challenges that we all face.

And, you know, Gene, we can stay there and wish our life away or we can decide that we're going to be more and we're going to overcome.

And that's my story.

- Your story is a powerful one, and for those who have not yet seen our first interview with Anne, we're going to provide the link to that interview right on the screen so you can go back and get that backstory.

It is a powerful, powerful story, one that addresses our current circumstances so very appropriately.

There are so many people right now faced with challenges that they don't know how they're going to overcome.

They're actually considering not even trying.

They're actually considering maybe the severity of taking their own life.

They don't see a way out.

Anne has been there.

Many of you have been there.

And yet one more day, one more day of overcoming, one more opportunity.

And in this particular volume - this is Anne's fourth book.

She's prolific.

So in this particular volume, we're not just talking about overcoming in a general sense.

We're talking about overcoming in a business sense and in essence, starting a business and being successful without losing your soul along the way.

Did I get the theme correct?

- Absolutely correct.

I had lived the life in the past where I lost who I was.

And that's the beauty of Auntie Anne's Soft Pretzels is that after all of that, all of our losses and all of our disappointments and the pain of it all, God had a plan all along.

And, you know, when you talked about all of us today, you know, experiencing difficulties to the point of, you know, it seems easier for some of us to take our life than it is to live on.

And that's tragic.

And when you said that, it breaks my heart, and I know that our audience is looking for...

They wouldn't be watching you today, Gene, if they weren't looking for more, looking for answers.

And I think the.

What I discovered in the midst, or during, or at the very end, maybe, of all our losses is that the answers are found within, and as a communicator with God himself.

That's where I found my answers, and my strength.

Maybe not always my answers, but my strength to go on another day, and that's a desperate place to be.

But this show, what we're going to talk about today, Gene, and what you do talk about is how to keep moving when you want to stop dead in your tracks.

- Well said.

Beautifully said.

I'm not going to give away the book.

I encourage every single one of you, I've got it, get your own copy.

Mine's already marked up like there's no tomorrow.

You wouldn't want to read my copy anyway.

Those notes were important to me.

Make your own notes.

Make them important to you.

But there are two key words in this book that I do want to explore a part of.

Salt, and light.

Salt and light.

Terribly important words.

Inside each of those, it's an anagram.

It allows you to see four or five really key important points.

Inside salt, Anne, I wanted you to talk today a little bit about trust courageously.

What does that mean to you and what does it mean to us?

- Well, let me just back up just a minute and tell the audience that as we were starting Auntie Anne's, I honestly wasn't sure how to take God into the workplace.

I didn't know how to do that because I'd never done it before.

And when I felt completely compelled to be salt and light, that changed me from the inside out, truly, because I was on a journey to figure out what does that mean?

How can I be salt?

How can I be light?

So the T in Trust Courageously.

I think that all of us, Gene, have experienced broken trust.

Maybe I have been the one to break trust with someone that fully trusted me.

Maybe you have experienced being... that you don't trust someone that was your best friend.

So either way, either I become untrustworthy or someone has really broken my trust with them.

Either way.

So in the day and age that we're living, I think it's probably, maybe, would you agree, Gene, to say that it's a common experience for all of us at some point in our journey to find someone or someone who has let me down?

I'm so discouraged, I can't trust them any more.

Right?

And I experienced that on many, many levels in my personal life, with the loss of our daughter and also with the abuse of our pastor.

So I was familiar when I walked into the corporate life, not knowing anything about corporate life, but I knew about human behavior.

And it was during that time I honestly decided...

I didn't want to trust anyone, but I also was smart enough to know if I don't trust the people around me, then we really have nothing to build on.

Trust is the cornerstone.

It's the foundation for any relationship, including the relationships that we build in our business life.

And when that trust at one point...

I have a number of stories, I guess, in my book, about broken trust.

But, you know, the other part of that is that I discovered that when someone does something where I can't trust them any more, the best thing to do is to talk about that, be open, honest and transparent.

And talk to the person that has created the mistrust.

And sometimes, honestly, Gene, it can't be worked out, like, because of the very core of who they are.

They just, they're mistrusting people.

But I learned to navigate my way through that and understand that when trust was broken in my world of business that I would sit down with them and we would talk about it.

And there were times I had to let them go because it was too grievous to me.

I couldn't trust again, because it had happened too many times or it happened behind my back without me knowing, and I had completely trusted them.

So all of us find ourselves in that place.

But I think it's really important to not lose trust in people, you know, generally, because if it happens too often... ..you become so discouraged with people and not being able to trust them that it almost puts a in a place of, like, you're frozen in that fear of mistrust.

- Yes.

- You're stuck there.

So my book talks a little bit about that.

- Yeah.

Let me interrupt for just a moment.

Wouldn't you agree, all of us have been in that position where we've had someone we trusted and it just pierces you to the heart when that's broken, and we've done it to other people.

It's a dreadful feeling from both sides.

But wouldn't you agree that the vast majority of people, particularly in our business lives, are not only trustworthy, they're beyond trustworthy, they're magnificent, and they reward us day after day after day.

- And you're so right, and that's really...

I'm thankful that you brought up that point, because that's what I experienced, was that I had a team of people around me that were completely amazing, trustworthy, and they were the ones that took the company, Auntie Anne's, they kept taking it to the next level, the next level, the next...

I couldn't do that by myself.

So, yes, I so agree.

There are more trustworthy people in your corner than every now and again you find someone that is not trustworthy, which is devastating, like you said, but we can't stay there because our world is full of trustworthy people.

Thank you for that.

- Indeed.

The second word, light.

Light means the world to me.

My favorite book of the Bible is the Gospel of John, and he talks about light throughout the Gospel.

It talks to me.

Part of light is to give freely.

And I know that in certain circumstances in our business world that either isn't trusted or it isn't approved or it isn't thought to be very businesslike.

But it was at the heart of Auntie Anne's Pretzels.

It's at the heart of lots of quality businesses.

What prompted that, to begin with?

And then how did you persevere when other people might challenge that as the company grew?

- A loaded question.

Great question.

You know, Jonas and I, we knew when we started...

There was a backstory to this, and it's in the book.

But we knew Auntie Anne's was created to give.

Again, that's such a heart thing for me, it's emotional.

We knew without a shadow of a doubt that Auntie Anne's was created for one... for two things.

It was created to give and it was created to be light.

So to be able to give was not a problem.

I couldn't wait to count my money at the end of the week and we did a farmers market two days a week when we started and it was a Friday and Saturday business.

And within two days we would do anywhere from maybe 2,000 to eventually about $3,000 in sales.

At the end of every Saturday night, I would go home and I would count my money and I would be so excited to take 10% of the gross sales and take it to church, cash, with me in the morning.

I couldn't wait to give away the money because I knew it belonged to God.

And so to be light, part of that, again, to give financially was a twofold purpose for us.

And let me tell you, there were many times as we continued to grow the company, and I like the thought or the question you asked, how did I stay on track?

Well, let me tell you something.

When you know what your purpose is, it's hard to get off track.

Now, there were times that I really had to have meetings and we had to talk about, you know, how much we want to give or how much we need to give or how much I believe we are called to give.

So there was always the ongoing discussion.

I remember clearly one time early in the life of Auntie Anne's we went to two or three banks and we needed an infusion of cash for 1.5 million, which is peanuts today.

At that time, it was a big amount of money.

And the banks declined.

And my brother, who was the president at that time, he said, you know, he was very discouraged and almost angry about it and he said, why do the banks not want to give us the money?

And I said, you know, I don't know.

I don't understand.

So he called them and he said it was because they didn't like our contribution column, like, we were giving too much money away.

So I begin to understand, wow, OK, banks really don't want to give you money when you're called to give and be philanthropic.

But I told my brother that day, I said, you know, I know that God created Auntie Anne's to give.

We're not giving in a very unthoughtful way.

We're very careful about where we give and how much we give.

It was a standard amount, unless we couldn't pay our bills, then we were going to back down.

But listen, Gene, we always paid our bills on time.

Every... For almost 20 years, we were...

I was at Auntie Anne's, we never lacked in paying our bills.

So it was a standard amount.

And I told my brother at that particular time, you know what, if we need this money, if God knows that we need the money, then somebody will come and I don't know, we'll find it somewhere.

And within weeks, somebody, one of my new employees said, I know somebody that will give you $1.5 million.

I said, who?

And she told me about this man.

I said, well, I don't even know him.

And she said, I do, and he loves your pretzels.

And I said, what am I supposed to do?

Do I call this guy and say, "Excuse me, this is Auntie Anne calling"?

And she said, no, no worries.

I'll go and talk to him for you.

So these are the stories that I could tell, on and on, and the end result that she called him, we met at a restaurant over a cup of coffee.

On a handshake, he gave me $1.5 million before we even signed an agreement.

- Breathtaking.

- Point to that story is, Gene, we limit ourselves, but we also limit, when we have a purpose, we limit how God will provide for us.

Really and truly, we limit his ability.

- Indeed.

My good friend and spiritual adviser says that we can't out-give God.

Pretty amazing, but your experience, the book outlines it beautifully.

As the money flows out, it flows right back in.

Money flows out, flows right back in.

Right back in, right back in.

Lots of companies would benefit.

If you read the book Overcome And Lead, I think you're going to be really, really drawn in that proper direction.

Now, you were the head, you were the founder and head for 20 years, but you've been gone from Auntie Anne's for quite some time.

Why did you leave?

And what do you do today?

- Well, we left and sold my baby.

And let me tell you, it was a very long process and the reason we sold was because we felt like we had a green light from God himself.

That, you know, my pleasure is your pleasure.

If you feel like you need to go, then you have my blessing.

And I knew that God was saying it's all right to go.

And I felt in my heart, Gene, at that time that the company, we had taken it to about 950 stores.

And I, you know, basically, I think I was tired.

And I also understood that we had to take the company to another level.

And I looked at the cost of that emotionally, spiritually, financially, and can I handle that?

I knew I could have, but I didn't know if I wanted to.

And so we prayed.

We talked to many people, advisers.

And at the end of the day, when we sold, the company was in great hands, I had a great team and we sold it to my second cousin who had been in the company, and also from the Amish culture.

He and the banks bought the company, bought it privately.

He bought the company, he and the banks owned it.

And so we just felt like there was more, and truly there was more.

And I feel like there's... We have to know how long to stay, you know, and we felt like it was time to move on.

And I had more to do, which was I felt like I wanted to speak.

I wanted to share my story.

I wanted to write a book or two or three, maybe.

And I knew that there was more life after Auntie Anne's, even though at times it felt...

I was very uncomfortable moving on at first.

But as time went on, I realized that it was the right time to sell, and that there was a bigger plan and that the team at Auntie Anne's, they took the company then to, today, I think we're close to 2,000 stores around the world, which in...

Yes.

So it's moved on and it's done very well.

Covid has set it back like any other company, but I'm so proud of Auntie Anne's and what they're still doing today in corporate America and around the world.

- I want to use that word proud as a link to my next question, because throughout your book, throughout our conversations that we've had, the word proud is often connected with a gentleman, Jonas Beiler.

And you often use "we" and the book outlines beautifully that team, that connection, that communication that the two of you have had.

Auntie Anne's was actually founded because of Jonas and his calling.

Tell us a little bit more about this man and what is he doing today now that Auntie Anne's is not in his day by day?

What is Jonas doing?

- Well, we sold Auntie Anne's and took the proceeds of the company's sale, and at that time we bought a farm, 125-acre farm and his passion and his calling and his heart was to build a community center and then develop that property.

And so our first building on the property was a family community center which housed counseling.

It was a counseling center.

We had about 12 or 13 different services there for the community.

So for the next eight to ten years, he was very involved in building this, developing this farm.

And of course, the counseling center was his heart, and that was birthed out of our own marital problems.

And during that time, in the early days of our, I call it my dark years, he took all of the things that we experienced and he went for, he studied psychology and he then became a layman's counselor.

And so that was his heart after we sold the company and during the time we had the company.

And today, you know, at one point he said, you know, honey, I'm tired.

I feel like I'm just burnt out.

He did counseling, honestly, from morning to night as a free service for many, many, many years.

And today, as I watch my husband, wow.

He's retired.

Well-deserved.

And I'm so proud of who he is, proud of what he's done for me, my family, and the world.

And I have no greater joy than to know that he's doing what he loves to do.

And I call him a professional putzer.

I don't know if you know what a putzer is.

- Absolutely.

Sure.

- And so, you know, he's got so many gifts and talents and he's around the neighborhood doing community stuff.

And he's always doing for others.

But he played his role so well, you know, he discovered the recipe by mistake.

And when I was going to give up, he kept it on the menu, said, don't stop now, dear, we gotta check this out.

We gotta move forward with this soft pretzel.

And it's because of him that we stayed, that we actually kept the pretzels on our menu, like maybe it was six or eight weeks into the business when I was ready to quit.

So I'm proud of him.

I know God gave me this really good man.

And we're married over 53 years now.

And boy, I say that slowly and kind of hesitantly, because every time I say it I'm like, I'm really an old woman now.

We're in the old category, but I don't feel like I am.

- As long as you stay young in your mind, then you're young.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Overcome and Lead, without a doubt, is a business book.

Without a doubt is.

And it's a tremendous, if you want significant content, particularly as an entrepreneur, if you're starting a small business or you want to go to that next level in a small business, you absolutely want to read this book.

There's no question about that.

But when Anne says she and Jonas have been married for 53 years, in some very significant ways, this is also a marital counseling book, a book about overcoming.

Because we overcome in business, we overcome in life, we overcome in our marriages, we overcome in our relationships.

And Anne, your experience on all of those levels... And I'll throw spiritual in there as well, because the dark years attack all of us.

I want to thank you personally for the work that you've done.

I want to thank Jonas indirectly for supporting you and you supporting him through 53 years and all that you've given.

I am cautiously optimistic this won't be the last time you and I will talk on PBS39.

I hope that we get to see each other and our paths cross in the near future.

- Thank you, Gene, and I hope so as well.

Thank you so much for this opportunity.

- God bless.

- You too.

- We just have seconds left.

If you're a loyal viewer of More Than Money, you know what I'm going to say to you.

If you have a question about anything, if you have a question about Anne, Auntie Anne's Pretzels or a question about Overcome And Lead, if you have a question about running a business or investing or your taxes, if it's concerning you, it concerns me.

Send me those questions, gene@askMTM.com.

Gene@askMTM.com.

I can't promise you you'll see your question on a future show, but I can promise you that we will answer that directly from our More Than Money world headquarters in the holy lands between Bethlehem and Nazareth right here in Pennsylvania.

Thanks so much for sharing part of your evening with us.

We'll see you next time on More Than Money.