And good evening.

You've got More Than Money.

You've got Gene Dickison, your host, your personal financial advisor.

Happy to be with you.

Absolutely thrilled to be with you.

Happy to be of service to you.

If you're a loyal viewer of More Than Money, you know exactly how this works.

There's an e-mail address that you get to use.

You send us your questions, your concerns, your observations.

We respond with our answers live on air.

Fantastic.

It goes really, really well.

So shortly you'll have that e-mail address on your screen.

Jot that down, make sure that you use that in the future if you have a concern.

I promise you we answer every single question back to our audience.

We can't put every single question on air because there simply isn't enough time.

But we do promise you that our entire More Than Money team is at your service and we'll give you every support that we possibly can to answer your questions.

Some of those might be about retirement, how best to invest or how best to spend, might be about estate planning, whether you need an executor, an executrix, a trustee.

Perhaps it might be about income taxes, Roth IRA conversions, whether we do a 401(k) with a match or it might be about running your business.

In any event, all of those types of topics.

And of course, the title of the show is More Than Money, so all those type of topics and anything else that has you concerned.

I am always impressed with how committed, dedicated, interesting our audience members really are, and our questions are often just as interesting as well, which is why I think, personal opinion, More Than Money is the most current, the freshest, the most appropriate show, financial show on air today because it's all about you.

I just happen to be the guy giving the information.

So hopefully you're going to stick with us right on through the balance of our show.

Current events have had a theme throughout this year with lots of ups and downs in markets, stock markets, bond markets, real estate markets, lots of volatility, lots of downward movement, some sharp upward movements and lots of agita, lots of heartburn.

Lots of folks saying out there, you know what?

This maybe isn't for me.

And maybe it isn't.

Too many folks invest in the stock market, invest in the bond market, invest in the real estate market, commodities and more inappropriately - they either don't understand what they're investing in and didn't realize the dramatic ups and downs or it's not necessary.

Your financial goals should be what drives the types of investments that you actually use.

And if you're using investments that are too risky to actually get you to your financial goals, you are exposing yourself to declines, losses that never should have happened.

And there are a fair number of very, very good investment platforms available, some of which provide you with 100% guaranteed protection and 100% guaranteed gains, others of which give you the opportunity for much higher rates of return with reasonable protection, and everywhere in between.

So if you're looking at your investments right now and saying this entire year has caused me distress, loss of sleep, not having the kind of results that I really hoped for, then likely what you're interested in first is a second opinion from a trusted, experienced financial advisor that you wish to share those ideas with so that you can find out where maybe things could be a little bit different.

Maybe your entire investment portfolio should be reconfigured.

Or maybe, and wouldn't this be wonderful, maybe the second opinion tells you it's exactly as it should be.

And goodness, if we can help with any of that, make sure you send us that e-mail.

We'll be glad to help.

Now, we've complimented you rather substantially as an audience - smartest out there.

Very interesting with interesting questions.

That's my opinion.

Let's prove it to you.

Let's go to our financial correspondent, Megan, for the first question from our audience for the evening.

- Hi, Gene.

Our first question says, Our daughter is planning to marry a man who has gotten himself into a big hole with his money.

If we understand right, he owes on his mortgage, two car loans, student loans and many credit cards.

She doesn't want to set a date until he gets his debt under control.

A few years back, we heard you mention a plan, I think you called it the snowball plan, for getting out of debt.

Could you please tell us how that works and how fast he can get out of this debt?

Thank you for helping us in advance.

- Tough question, very challenging question.

This young man has to himself get out of debt.

He has to himself wish to be debt free.

Your support?

Fabulous.

His fiancee's support?

Critical.

But he has to be the one that actually makes the commitment.

I can explain the process, willing to do it.

I think lots of people listening will find it very, very useful either themselves or for folks that they care about.

But keep in mind, not unlike any other addiction, if a young man has a mortgage, two car payments, credit cards, student loans, he is in many ways addicted to spending more than he's earning, outliving his resources.

That's an addiction, sadly comparable to any other addiction and can be just as difficult to break.

If he is committed to breaking it, with your support it can be done, and the process that's being described is a little controversial.

The snowball plan that we use to get folks out of debt is not approved, so to speak, by all financial advisors.

And I'll explain why here momentarily.

But the plan is quite simple.

You make, first of all, he makes a list of all of his debts and then he puts them in order, starting with the smallest balance.

So let's pick some numbers just as demonstration.

For demonstration purposes, he has a mortgage of 180,000.

His smallest debt... That's his largest.

His smallest debt is a credit card with a balance of $1,100.

Next to each of those debts, now that they're in order from smallest to largest, he will make that list of the minimum account payments he must make every month to keep on track and to keep his credit strong, keep his credit pure and stay on track.

And for example, the mortgage payment might be 1,200 a month, the credit card payment might be $20 a month.

So it's a very progressive outline that we're making here, going from smallest to largest.

Are we OK so far?

The reason we do that is because someone who's addicted to spending needs to be trained to get pleasure from not being in debt, to get pleasure from paying off debt, to get pleasure from seeing debts disappear.

And the sooner we can get a victory, a win, so to speak, the more that will become a positive feeling.

And the more we can add to that snowball of victories, the faster we can add to that snowball of victories, the better.

One component of the snowball theory says set that up, start making the minimum payments and then take a step back in your life.

What do you have in your life that you can release, get rid of, sell?

So, for example, he may have parked in his garage a motorcycle that he doesn't ride very much and, to be honest, shouldn't have borrowed money on in the first place.

Perhaps he sells that motorcycle for $5,000.

That pays off that first credit card instantly.

It may even pay off this second credit card.

It could go on and on.

Bottom line is that once you've paid off one, the minimum payment on the first debt goes to paying down the second debt, and that will accelerate the payment on the second debt dramatically.

How long before he's completely out of debt?

It depends.

It depends on how many debts, how many minimum payments, his income and his commitment, if he is really committed.

We have seen folks go from deeply in debt to completely out of debt in under five years.

Out of debt completely, including mortgage, under five years.

You say, how is that possible?

Think about all the minimum payments being brought down finally to the largest debt, the mortgage, and all that extra money thrown in on a monthly basis.

That can tear chunks off of the mortgage balance in a very rapid way.

And for those folks who are really committed and they maybe get a side hustle, maybe they do some Uber driving, whatever, and earn some extra money and drop that into the debt process, that snowball just accelerates faster and faster.

I think your daughter is very wise - we don't set dates until this gets cleaned up.

I think your daughter also needs to be realistic.

It may not get cleaned up.

In either event, you've got to at least give it a go.

Excellent question.

We hope we helped a bit.

Megan, what's our next question this evening?

- Our next question is about mortgages.

It says, My husband and I are planning to retire at the end of next year.

We have a home worth about $400,000 and have a mortgage balance of about $145,000 with an interest rate of 3.25%.

Our question is, should we take a chunk of our retirement money and pay off the mortgage, or should we keep it for a tax - deduction?

- Well, excellent question.

We get this a lot, particularly folks who are soon to retire.

Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have a mortgage payment?

Wouldn't that make life easier?

And the answer is, in all probability, yes.

The last part of your question, the answer is a decided no.

Should you keep the mortgage payment so that you get a tax deduction?

The answer is, on your current arrangement with 145,000 that you owe at three and a quarter, your interest in in a year is going to be around 3,800.

We'll call it $4,000.

Married couple, standard deduction is approximately 25,000.

So your interest rate, the interest that you wish to deduct, added to charitable deductions, added to medical expenses, if any, casualty losses, if any, miscellaneous deductions on your schedule A must be larger than 25,000 in order for them to have any value whatsoever.

If you're adding 4,000 of interest to a few thousand dollars of other deductible items, possibly deductible items, and it totals ten, they bring nothing to the table.

You will already get 25,000 of deductions.

So keep it for a mortgage deduction?

Absolutely not.

Bad idea.

Wipe that off your screen.

Should you take money out of your 401(k), your IRA, to do this?

In my opinion, the answer is also no.

That is typically a really painful way to get rid of a mortgage.

You are taking to pay off 145.

You've got to have that after tax.

So you might need to take out 160, depending on your tax bracket, 170 depending on your tax bracket, $180,000 in order to get 145 after tax to pay off your mortgage.

That's a huge chunk of your lifetime savings that is now gone forever.

Now, admittedly, it reduces your expenses.

Your monthly expenses will drop significantly.

But to trade $180,000 in a blink, pushing you in that year into a much higher tax bracket is likely not in your best interest.

I'll give you two alternatives, either one of which I think would work reasonably well.

The first is to take money from your retirement plans but take it slowly.

Take enough out each month that you are meeting your mortgage payment.

That will keep your withdrawals relatively low.

It'll keep your tax bracket hopefully relatively low.

And over the course of a normal payment schedule, the mortgage will eventually disappear.

An alternative one that you should explore, and it takes exploration with a trusted, experienced reverse mortgage expert, is to consider using your home, grabbing a reverse mortgage.

Depending on the type of plan that you use, you could borrow up to about half the value of your home, $200,000, in this case.

You would pay off that first mortgage.

You have no more mortgage payments.

That disappears.

So does your mortgage payment.

And you would have a balance of about $55,000 on a line of credit that you could draw on in the future if you should ever need it.

So that's two different ideas that I think are better than keep my mortgage and get a deduction or take out a huge chunk from my retirement plan.

You need to sit with people you trust, people that are experienced in these areas and get a very definitive description of the pros and cons for you.

Everybody's situation is different.

Everybody's philosophy and financial value systems are different.

So make sure whatever choice you make, it fits you.

It fits you.

Speaking of fitting you, Megs, what question fits you next?

- Our next e-mail says, My wife and I are retired and quite comfortable with the incomes we get from Social Security and our investments.

I work part time and make $24,000 a year.

I really love staying active.

I get to hang out with a lot of much younger people, and I think that keeps my mind going.

I also like helping people.

My question is about my income.

We don't need the money now, and maybe we won't ever.

But what's the best thing I can do with my income to feather our nest for the future?

Thank you for your help.

- First of all, tip of the hat.

Good for you.

Too many people have a vision of retirement being a Barcalounger, a cold one and the TV show Oprah every afternoon.

Oh, what a dreadful vision.

What a debilitating vision.

This gentleman, I think, has it exactly right.

Working part time, apparently a schedule he finds really comfortable, appreciates being able to help other people, appreciates the interaction with younger folks.

He's using his brain, he's using his body.

He's staying active, he's staying engaged.

He's being valuable.

That's a fabulous place to be.

It doesn't have to be part time work.

It could be, hey, taking care of maybe a one-year-old grandson that you really, really love.

It could be that.

It could be helping out at the church that you really, really love, but be engaged.

So back to the question, $24,000, you've got some options here.

You can simply pay the tax and invest it after tax in some investment platform that that you're comfortable with that you can then draw on in the future.

One way to go.

You can take part of it on a tax deductible basis.

You and your wife collectively can have two IRAs, your IRA and a spousal IRA.

That would take $14,000 off of your current taxable income and let's say your tax brackets, the 15% bracket.

That would save you a little over $2,000 in taxes.

Fantastic.

And that would be pushed off until you start your RMDs.

An interesting alternative might be the same $14,000 but not into a traditional IRA with a tax deduction but into a Roth IRA without a tax deduction.

Once it hits the Roth IRA, it will still continue tax sheltered.

And if you never need it, you can send that to your beneficiaries tax free.

But feathering your nest is an interesting phrase I like.

If you need this ten, 15, 20 years down the road, the money out of the Roth IRA is tax free.

And seeing what's going on in our governments today, rising taxes, rising spending, rising deficits, do you think tax brackets are going to be higher or lower in 20 years?

Yeah, I'm afraid so, too.

So tax free income in 20 years might very well feather your nest very, very nicely.

Excellent question.

Thank you for sharing.

Megs, let's share with our audience another question.

- Sure thing.

This person says, Thanks for your show and all the great information that you share every week.

I'm 29, married, have a good job, and we just moved into our own house.

So far things are pretty good.

I'm investing in my 401(k) at work and I have about $110,000 in my account.

I put in 15% of my pay and the company puts in 4%.

I'm pretty happy with my progress there.

One of the guys at work a couple of years ahead of me says he's in a fire retirement plan, F-I-R-E. His plan is to retire at 45.

I'm wondering, how does a fire plan work?

Is it another kind of 401(k) ?

No-one else at work has a clue what this guy is talking about, but we figured you would know.

Thank you.

- Well, you figured right.

Yes, I do know.

And there's probably a reason why nobody else at work understands what this guy has to say.

He may not understand exactly what he has to say.

Fire is not a retirement plan.

It's a financial strategy.

It is a financial approach.

I'll explain that here in a moment.

But first, I've got to do something very, very important.

You are 29, married, homeowner, and you've got $110,000 in your 401(k) already.

Good for you!

You are doing wonderfully well.

You're contributing 15% of your income.

Your company's matching 4%.

That's called free money.

So even if your accounts made zero return in terms of the investments you've selected, that plus 4% is about at almost a 25%, a little more than a 25% rate of return, instantaneously risk free.

Fantastic.

You've done wonderfully well.

Now, fire.

The anagram - I hope that's the right word - Fire financially independent, retiring early.

And the concept of a Fire approach is that if you start very young and you save half of your income, whatever your income may be, 50 grand, you save 25, 100 grand, you save 50.

200 grand, you save 100,000 bucks a year.

You save half or more of your income.

You train yourself to live on less than half of your income.

You can retire 20 years earlier than everybody else.

So normal retirement age is 65.

A fire target.

This gentleman's target, age 45, makes perfect sense.

He is saving more than half of his income over, say, 20, 25 year.

I assume he started his career at, say, 20, 21.

Over a 25 year period, saving one half of a year's worth of income per year, you're going to end up saving, what, 14, 15 years' worth of income.

And then the income from that savings can support you through the rest of your life.

And then when you reach normal retirement age, you'll have Social Security to look at as well.

So a very, very interesting idea.

Certainly not for everyone and probably not right for you if you're married, new home.

Maybe the topic of family has come up, and I can assure you the opportunity to spend less than half of your income while supporting a growing family, hopefully, hopefully with your wife being able to stay home and care for the child would be very, very challenging.

Not impossible.

You could certainly make that a go.

But the reality is I think you're on a tremendously positive track.

Your friend might also be on a tremendously positive track, but those are two different tracks.

Megan, do we have one more that we can share this evening?

- We do.

Our last question says, On the last few shows, I've heard you talk about different investments that give protection against losing money.

Almost all my money is in my 401(k) and it's been losing money for a long time.

I went online to look at my investment options and I was not happy.

I didn't find anything like what you have been talking about.

And when I asked at work, they didn't know any more than I did.

I'm 58 and I plan on working ten more years, but I can't just watch my money go down.

What do you suggest that I do?

- This is a very common question that we're getting today, especially folks that are in that that glide path towards retirement.

That ten years is a good number.

Anything short of that, of course, even more so.

They've saved all their lives.

They got to a very nice number.

And now the downturn in the markets have eroded that and they're concerned, will it come back?

In my world, yes, in my opinion, yes, it's going to come back.

Spring follows winter.

So it always has.

Is this the one time it won't?

I suppose it's possible.

I certainly don't expect that.

Ten years is a good long time.

So one of your options is to bite the bullet.

Stop looking at your 401(k) and just put it away for the next six months, nine months, a year until the rebound happens.

And then you go back and go, I'm OK. Another option, because you're 58 years old, is to say something very, very different.

It is to say to your 401(k) administrator, I want to roll my balance out of my 401(k) into an IRA that I control.

It's referred to as an in-service rollover.

It is typically available in 401(k)s for employees that are 55 or older.

It allows them to stay employed, stay a participant in the 401(k) plan.

You're not leaving the very next paycheck.

Your contribution will be going into the plan.

But the balance - I'm picking a number - 400,000 in the plan.

You're adding $100 a week.

400,000 gets moved to your IRA.

The next week, your 401(k) balance is $100.

You made $100 contribution.

Once your money is in the 401(k) plan, then the investment universe that's available to you opens up exponentially to category levels that you can't even begin to imagine as we speak.

Some of those items that we talked about, fixed annuities, where your principal is guaranteed, fixed indexed annuities, where you might get a better rate of return and still have your principal guaranteed, buffered exchange traded funds, ETFs, buffered ETFs where you can select a protection level.

I want my money to be protected if the market goes down 10%, 15%, 30%.

And coincidentally, you get to select your opportunity, your potential returns in these buffered ETFs, structured notes, bank issued notes, where there are, again, some either protections, modest protections or extreme protections and some modest guarantees on the upside.

All - any - of those are available to you if you're in an independently directed IRA.

So you may wish to talk to the 401(k) administrator.

It doesn't sound like the folks at your work are terribly informed about how all these things work, but if you run into a pickle, please reach back out to us.

We'll be happy to assist you in getting that in-service rollover accomplished so that now you can customize that investment platform for you and make your next ten years much, much more comfortable.

Folks, fantastic questions.

You are the best.

And hopefully some of the answers that we gave you were useful and advance you closer to your financial goals.

If you have a question you'd like to pose to us or a scenario you'd like some advice on, all you have to do is ask.

You send us an e-mail, gene@askmtm.com, gene@askmtm.com, just like it's spelled on the screen.

And you will be very, very welcome to all the service that we can provide you directly back.

Every single question gets answered to you.

Thanks so very much for spending part of your time with us.

We hope you learned enough and were engaged enough that you'll want to return next week right here when we return with More Than Money.

Goodnight.