And good evening.

You've got More Than Money - you've got Gene Dickison, your host, your personal financial adviser.

For the next half hour, I am at your service - and happy to be so.

As you have been hearing over lo these many weeks of 2020, challenging time - challenging times on every level that we can possibly think of, whether it's health or economy, or politics - don't even get me started.

So, challenges for sure.

But we encourage you to think about the C-words - think about courage, think about creativity, think about - it sounds strange after all we've gone through - but think about cautious optimism for a new year to come, and all that that may bring.

And, as we do every single week, we encourage you, add a little bit of courtesy to your life, add a little bit of just being nice, just a little bit nicer, perhaps, than you may have been used to as, everybody's a little on edge, everybody's got a little bit of a tough spot in their lives.

Make sure that you're being compassionate - another C-word - and show some courtesy.

I think that will take us a very, very long way.

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And, as you know, we often answer questions from our audience on air.

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And as many of you know, if you, again, our loyal viewers, our segment called The American Story is probably our flagship.

That's what folks are really commenting on across the valley and well beyond is we've had the opportunity over the course of our two seasons now on More Than Money to interview some of the most interesting business people that we can find, and some of the most interesting business stories - American stories that we can find.

And this week is no exception.

From Alvin H Butz, we have Mike and Steve Butz.

Welcome, gentlemen.

- Welcome.

- Thank you for having me.

- Oh, it's our honor.

It's our pleasure.

Now, I say that, because I'm guessing - how old is your dad?

I'm just curious.

- He's 63.

- 63.

- So, your dad and I are of an age.

He and I - I got him by a couple of years, so... Having the opportunity to work with family, as a father, I just don't know if there's anything better.

But for you folks, it's not just dad.

Who else is involved in the business as we speak?

- Our grandfather, Lee, is also still involved in the business.

And he's 87 years old, so he's still kicking strong.

And we're proud to be able to learn as much as we can from him every day.

- I had the opportunity, as we've talked about briefly, to interview your grandfather on my radio show a number of years back, and...

He's a gentleman of the first order, and a businessman of the first order.

Oh, and a philanthropist of the first order.

So, you've got a role model that you're going to have... You're going to have a challenge, following in the footsteps as you've grown up in the Butz family.

Steve, was it always expected you were going to join the business?

- Wouldn't say it was always expected, but I think it was sort of innate, you know, growing up and going to job sites with my dad or my grandfather was something that we just did.

And it was always conversation around the dinner table on Sunday.

Sunday nights always usually revolved around the business.

So, it was sort of a natural fit, at least, I think for me, it's just growing up and then going to school, it just sort of was something that is in us innately, I think.

So, I always knew, I think, that I was going to be a part of the business.

And, you know, I'm happy that I am now.

- Your role in the business, give us just kind of a nutshell of what you do.

- So, I'm mostly in project management right now, running construction projects as much as I can.

I'm also trying to learn as much of other parts of business operations, as well.

So, you know, working with upper leadership in our company to learn as much as I can from my dad and from others in the company who have so many years of experience.

So, I guess you could say in my free time, I'm trying to learn that while also learning as much construction operations as I can, because that's at the core.

That's what we do.

So I want to get good at, you know, what we build, and then, also learn as much as I can about business functions at the same time.

- Mike, how big an operation are we talking about?

I know that you folks operate in, what, 3-4 different states?

How many employees, how many operations, or how many projects are you currently working on?

- So we probably have maybe 30-40 projects going on at a time.

And the company was, really grew out of Allentown.

And about 20 years ago, we expanded our markets in Pennsylvania, and we now have a sister company in Harrisburg, which has offices in Harrisburg and State College.

Then we also have a firm that serves the Philadelphia market.

So, we're primarily central and eastern Pennsylvania.

And we have, between the three companies, I think it's about 180 employees right now, about 50-60 out of Allentown.

- Tremendous.

Tremendous.

The term "construction management" is a relatively new phraseology in your profession, in your business.

My dad was a carpenter.

I grew up, same as you did, going to the job sites.

Couldn't have thought of anything better than to swing a hammer for the rest of my life.

My dad explained to me in great detail that that was not the direction to go.

But he worked for a general contractor.

I think a lot of folks think about construction in those terms of somebody who's kind of the GC in charge and a lot of tradesmen that did the work.

Construction management is pretty different.

Steve, how would you describe the differences?

- Yeah, you're right.

And you're right in that construction management is a relatively new term in the industry and, relatively speaking, to the Lehigh Valley.

You know, that was one of the ways that our company really expanded was my grandfather, Lee, you know, pioneering the construction management method, because before that, everything was pretty much general contracting.

So, the way we look at construction management is it's a professional service to our clients, to our owners that we work for.

So, it's similar to GC work, but we like to get involved in projects as early as possible.

So, you know, if an owner wants to build a building, we want to get hired at the same time that they're hiring an architect and an engineer, because we provide a professional budgeting service, you know, throughout the design process, and then, follow it all the way through building your building and occupying it.

So it's, sort of, a more collaborative approach.

There's a lot better relationships with architects and engineers, and the client, because you're working on the same team up front.

You know, you're not coming in at the last minute and hard-bidding a number and trying to fight, you know, to get scrape dollars.

You're working with the owner as part of his team.

So, that construction management method is really key to how we've been able to be successful and get sort of repeat work with clients, because we're part of your team.

We like to say we're part of your facilities department at the end of the project, too.

You know, we're the ones who know the project from the start to the finish.

- Mike, the relationships that your company builds with your clients is remarkable.

I've seen some interviews with some of your clients - in the interest of full disclosure for everyone watching PBS 39 this evening, the building that we're conducting our interview in was one of the projects that Alvin H Butz put together - I don't know how many years ago, do you have any idea?

- I think it was around 2008 or 2010, somewhere in that... - All right.

So the gentleman upstairs, Jim Fallon, our executive director, I've seen him interviewed, and the fact that indeed, that collaboration, that's a fantastic opportunity for an end result for a client that's so satisfying, as opposed to so confrontational, which is pretty typical.

If you talk about contractors in general, mmm, the word confrontation jumps in there.

But the collaboration piece just jumps off the video when you hear it.

And it makes perfect sense.

And your grandfather pioneered that.

It's interesting to me, thinking about, as you, young men, enter the business, you're his grandsons.

He was once a grandson.

He was once 20 years old, banging around in the business.

And his grandfather, I guess Solomon Jr., I think?

- Yeah, that's right.

- He was shaking his head, going.

"I just don't know if the kid's got it."

And yet to meet him today, anyone that's met your grandfather knows what an amazing guy he really is, not just from a business standpoint, but from a quality as a human being.

See, growing up, Grandpa give you insights?

Give you, "Here's a tip, here's an idea, "here's a philosophy?"

Anything that you reach back and go, "Hey, that meant a lot to me"?

- He definitely did, and still does to this day.

You know, we talk regularly, like Mike said, he still comes into the office every day.

And I see him regularly on weekends.

You're right, it's big shoes to fill.

He's very impressive, as well as my dad.

You know, they're both impressive figures.

And I've learned a lot from them - more from them than I did in college.

I can say that for sure.

You know, learning from the people who helped build the organization into what it's become is a way, I think, that we're going to be able to, you know, try to fill those shoes and learn as much as we can from those that came before us.

So he's always, always providing tips.

Everybody, all of our family is and how to how to run the business, and just how to act as people in the community.

- Fantastic.

Now, so that we don't give Penn State short shrift here, Penn State's a great school.

My middle daughter went there and then got her master's just a couple of years ago.

And, so fantastic.

But is there, Mike, is there any real substitute to doing it?

Is there any real - I mean, God bless you, you get a great education.

But until you're on the job site, is there any substitute for on the job?

- I really don't think there is.

You know, similarly to what Steve just said, You go through four years of school thinking that you're going to be fully prepared when you graduate from college to enter the workforce, you know, whatever industry you may be in.

And it only takes...

It doesn't take very long to realize you don't know what you think you did when you started.

Just the on-site experience.

And like I said, whether it's construction, accounting, business, whatever it may be, the on-site, on the job, on-the-site training is really indescribable, about how much you can learn in a short period of time physically doing it, instead of, like you said, instead of learning it in school.

And kind of like Steve said earlier, we grew up around the business.

You know, we live it now.

And I feel like those experiences that we had before college are also very valuable to us as we continue to learn more and more.

But, yeah, I always I always think that the on-the-job training is invaluable, as opposed to reading something in a book, so to say.

- Without a doubt.

Obviously, your dad, tremendous influence, your grandfather, tremendous influence.

Outside of the business, you're young men, you're building your career.

And Steve, some of what you said about "in my spare time, "I'm learning about the business operation."

There's just tremendous literature about the failures of companies who focus on what they're doing, rather than focusing on the business of what they're doing.

So, it really is two very, very different jobs.

Has there been anybody outside the family that you go, "He's been a mentor, she's been a mentor.

"They've had great influence on me, how I think "or how I approach business."

Steve?

- Yeah, there is.

And, you know, like Mike described, we have offices across the state, so some of the leaders in those offices have been instrumental in learning from them, too.

You know, they have lots of experience in the industry.

You know, that's one of the good things about... One of the unique things about our company, I should say, is the longevity of some of the employees that have worked for us.

Some of these senior leaders at the other offices have worked for us for 30-40 years.

So, they bring an incredible amount of experience that we're able to learn from, too, and from, you know, a different mindset, not from family, like you said, getting an outside take on how to run an office is extremely helpful.

So I would say, yeah, we lean on those other leaders of the other offices and learn a lot from them, too, as well as, you know, in addition to our family.

- Mike?

- Yeah, I think another thing, to kind of play off what Steve said, we do pretty much studying on what makes a family business successful.

And there's been a lot of studies and publications out there that really study what's the best way to transition a company from one generation to the next, when you're talking about a family-owned business.

And there's just so many things that it seems like people lose sight of as a company gets more successful.

And my dad and grandfather, certainly when they were our age, you know, the company was much less established by then.

So now that we're in the business and it is established, it's sort of a different mindset, so to say so.

So we like to focus on what we've been, you know, groomed to focus on is not worrying about profit, revenue, volume, money, you know, obviously we have to run a profitable business to stay in business.

But if you focus on the little things, like you said, with construction management satisfying the customer, always doing the right thing and making sure that satisfying the customer comes first, that will be the revenue, and the profit will be a byproduct of that.

So, I know that those are the main things that we focus on in moving the company forward.

- Mike, that's incredibly well said, incredibly well said.

And it's an ironic position we, as business people, find ourselves in today - that if you serve a customer, you care about the result, you build relationships, forgive me, but you're actually nice while you're doing it...

It's an incredible competitive advantage, because other companies are simply bottom line, and it comes across.

They may use exactly the same words you've used, but that's not where they're coming from.

A big part of how companies are measured philosophically, how they value themselves is in the community themselves.

Your grandfather, your father, of course, have led the way in being committed - you gentlemen, as well.

And anything in particular in the community, Steve, that you're excited about, or that you're committed to, as well?

- Yeah, that's a huge part of what we do.

And you're right, my dad and grandfather, members of lots of organizations.

And, as I'm starting to focus a little bit more on the business operations, like you said, in the community, I'm trying to get involved in as much as I can, you know, on local boards and advisory committees, and such like that because, that's, like you said, that's a huge part of what we do is building relationships not only with our clients, but just with the community in general, because we've been here for 177 years now, our family, and we're not planning on going anywhere.

So, you know, we're, like Mike said, we're established in the community, but we want to remain that way.

You know, that's part of our mission statement.

Like Mike said, doesn't say anything about profits.

It's about serving our clients and getting to know people and, you know, staying involved in the community as much as possible, because we're going to be here for the foreseeable future.

- It's where your families are.

- Right.

- Absolutely.

Mike, any particular organizations that you've really kind of gotten drawn to, and now it feels like they're family, as well?

- Well, sort of like Steve said, you know, we focus a lot on supporting our customers, as well as a lot of different community organizations.

I just joined the board of the United Way of the Lehigh Valley, which is something I'm very proud of.

And, similarly to Steve said, a lot of our business is about giving back to the community.

Obviously, we have to build buildings to stay in business.

But to me, I think it's almost more important to support the community that we're in, not only our customers for the buildings we build, but any charitable organizations in the area where we care a lot about them, because we've been here for a while and, like Steve said, we're not going anywhere.

- That's fantastic.

- Your family and your family business, and your grandfather, of course, have supported the state theater, for example, for many, many years.

And I can't tell you how many incredible shows that we've seen there.

And, as we've built our business, we've been fortunate enough to sponsor a fair number of shows ourselves.

But Alvin H Butz has sponsored a tremendous number of shows that my entire family, from the girls being very, very young to now full-grown women, have the memories that were created.

And that's all possible because of nearly 200 years now of hard work on the part of folks who started with covered bridges and have gone way beyond, way beyond.

Family businesses have their own dynamics that are very, very different than just joining any old company.

Challenges that you faced?

Or maybe, to make it a little less pressure-oriented on, "I got to go back to the office now, "and they just said these guys are a challenge" - now, what advice would you give to somebody perhaps roughly your age who's entering a family business?

How would you counsel them to approach it, to give them maybe a little edge in success?

Steve?

- I would say it is challenging.

You know, we have our own personalities and different ideas about how to not only live your life, but run a business.

So, I would say one thing that I think Mike and I do pretty well is we're trying to find what we like to do, and how we can best apply the skills that we like to do and that we're good at in the business.

And they're not necessarily the same thing.

Like I said, now I'm more on the operation side because that's more what I like.

And Mike is sort of more on the business side, because that's what he's a little bit better at.

And getting the crossover is what's most important.

You know, we get along very well.

I can't remember ever fighting with Mike.

You know, we've just always been a great team, I think.

And just creating that team of applying what you're good at and what you like to do is, I think, important.

And then, that'll help bring as much as you can to the table.

And that interfacing in between the two is, like I said, that's what's most important.

So, keeping a good relationship.

But you're right, it's a challenge.

I mean, we not only are at work together, we function socially.

We're good friends, so we keep, you know...

It's a lot of...

It's a challenge, but it's one that we're happy to take on.

- Fantastic.

Challenges exist everywhere.

So, the fact that it's a challenge is not a negative, not in any way, shape, or form.

If it's not challenging, it's almost not worth doing, and there's no pride in it.

That's certainly the case.

So, meeting the challenges is absolutely on the agenda.

Any advice you would give to a young family member entering a family business?

- I guess I would say, you know, very much so, marrying with Steve said, but I guess just appreciating and having humility, and being grateful for the opportunity that you're given.

When we were growing up, obviously the business was pretty successful at that point.

So I think, if you're entering a family business that has seen some success, like Steve said, finding the right area and the business that you're happy with is, I think, very important.

I mean, sometimes I feel like you get, kind of, a family-owned business - you can get kind of pushed in a corner and being forced to feel like you have to do this or that, but being comfortable with your position.

And I think, you know, humility is a huge thing for us.

I mean, we very much so try to stay grounded.

Our name is around the community pretty much.

And, you know, I think a daily, nightly basis to just stay humble, stay grounded, appreciate the position that we're in, and just try to help as many people out there as possible.

- Well said, indeed.

Well said, indeed.

What's in the future?

The company has come so far, six generations.

You would expect it would grow.

But the progress, the evolution has been magnificent.

There's something maybe in your mind that you're saying, "Once I kind of get myself in the right spot, "I'd like to," what?

"I'd like to what," Steve?

- Yeah, it's something that we think about all the time, you know, because we're just sort of entering into the business and have a long road ahead of us.

So, you know, growth isn't the number one goal of the company expanding, like Mike said, if that is a byproduct of what we're doing, and it happens, that's great.

But one of the interesting things that I think we like to bring to the company right now is starting like an innovation committee and innovation department, almost, within our company, because that's one way not only, you know, to stay on the cutting edge of the construction industry, because it's changed obviously a lot from building covered bridges to building high-tech hospitals is a lot different.

But having that innovation and bringing a collaborative and an innovative mindset to projects kind of helps set us apart from the competition.

So, bringing together a group of like-minded individuals who are passionate about what we do and passionate about learning about drones and 3D-printing, and all those types of things that are filtering into the construction industry, because the construction industry tends to lag behind the rest of technology, because of the nature of how it's built.

But we like to stay on the cutting edge of that.

And having this innovation department, I think, will help us do that.

And that's something that Mike and I are both pretty passionate about, bringing innovation and just figuring out ways to build buildings and serve our clients as efficiently as possible.

- Fascinating, fascinating.

Mike, anything you want to add to that?

What you would like to see happen as the company continues to evolve?

- Yeah, I see the question as sort of two-fold, as I started thinking about it.

And the first thing that came to my mind was along the lines of maintaining what we've built already.

And Steve hit on it, our objective moving forward isn't going to be to try to figure out how to increase our revenue by X number this year, next year, the following year.

But it's really, we have a strong foundation and a strong base in place.

So, to maintain the success of the business moving forward, while at the same time, like Steve hit on, keeping ahead of the construction industry, because it's very rapidly changing on a daily, weekly, yearly basis.

So, in order to have the right people in place to stay ahead of the curve, as far as construction technology is the case, but also maintaining the strong foundation that the company was initially built upon, too.

- Balancing the philosophy, the value system with the technology, the putting where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

It's always the balancing act.

But it sounds like you gentlemen have a really good handle on where this is going to go.

I'm certainly as proud of you - I don't know your dad at all, but I'm going to guess, I'm going to go way out on a limb and say that he's pretty proud of you, as well.

The innovation piece, I think it's fascinating.

I also think, old guy to young guys, as you grow your business and you're recruiting people, you're attracting people to you that are going to be part of your team.

That's an exciting part.

If I were a young man and you're saying, "Hey, we build buildings" - lots of people build buildings.

"We're on the cutting edge, we serve our clients, "we collaborate, we have relationships that go on "for decades, and we are really interested in innovation."

Whoa, there's something that would be really attractive.

So, I think you guys are on the right track.

I want to thank both of you.

I've got to do a little bit of housekeeping here for a moment.

But thank you so much, Steve and Mike, thank you so much.

- Thank you.

Fantastic.

Cutting edge, indeed.

Can you imagine what cutting-edge was in 1840?

They didn't have any of the mechanical drills.

They probably had one of those really long levers to cut... You've got it.

It's just crazy to think about how far both Alvin H Butz and Company has come, how far the industry has come, and how far we have come in a very short period of time.

I just have moments left in this edition of More Than Money.

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