And good evening.

You've got More Than Money, you've got Gene Dickison, your host, your personal financial advisor, and for the next half an hour, I'm all yours.

I'm not just introducing you to new ideas on investments and income taxes, estate planning and all the financial stuff of the world, but we introduce you to ideas that come from real American lives.

And I'm going to introduce you to my guest here momentarily.

But as we always do, we invite you to send us your e-mails.

If you've got a question about your personal financial picture, send it to me personally, gene@askmtm.com, gene@askmtm.com.

And I promise you, even if your email isn't seen on a future edition of More Than Money, we answer every single email directly to you so you will get the information that you need, whether you're a star on TV or not.

These are challenging times.

So send me your financial challenges.

I think we're going to be up to it.

780 years of experience.

It goes a long way to answering the kinds of questions that you might be concerned about.

So don't hesitate.

Send those to me.

But during challenging times, make sure that you stay calm, you show good courage, be creative about how you approach things and by all means, be courteous to the people around you.

They are all going through a tough time as well.

So just give them a little bit of flex and I think your life and everybody else's life around you is going to be much more accommodating.

Keith Hoeing is our guest this evening, and I turn to him and say, welcome, sir.

- Thank you very much for having me.

I'm flattered to be here.

- We are very, very flattered that you accepted.

Erwin Forrest is an interesting name for your company, so let's dive right into that.

How did that come to be?

How did the name come to it?

- It came over dinner one night with my wife.

The way the business started, I needed to get paid as a subcontractor.

We had to start a business.

So we're just kicking around names.

And I just said, I want to stick with something with the family.

But I never thought it would see advertising and ever anything, just a company to cut a check to.

And Erwin and Forrest kind of just went together.

And, you know, it's funny because as a kid, Erwie was my nickname and I hated it.

I got made fun of a lot for the name Erwin.

And now, you know, I can't believe where it's gone.

- So Erwin was...?

- Erwin was my father's father.

- OK. And Forrest?

- Forrest was my mother's father.

- This kind of all fits together nicely.

- Two unique names that I think went together real well.

- Did you know either of them?

I did.

Erwin died, you know, a little bit....

I think I was less than ten years old.

But big stature, you know, and came home talking about work a lot.

And, you know, I always loved just hearing from him.

They grew up in Indianapolis, so we would only see him a couple of times a year.

But just the aura about him was always very impressive.

- And he owned a lumber yard?

- He worked in a lumber yard.

My father would always tell me stories that his first working experience was driving a lumber truck and he could park it on a dime, you know?

- Of course.

- Things like that.

So there was always that little part of it in my life.

- My dad was a carpenter.

- Yeah.

- So I spent a lot of my youth in a lumber yard.

- Nothing quite like it.

- The smell.

- Oh, the smell!

That's exactly right.

It's the first thing that hits you.

And if you're kind of born into that life, I just smell it and go, I'm home.

- Yeah.

And I didn't discover that until I was older, you know, that smell.

But I think it's amazing how it's all related.

- And your Forrest kind of dabbled.

- Forrest was obviously my mother's father.

I got to know him a little bit more.

He was a very hardworking guy.

Lived in the hills in Kentucky.

Right> And actually, he lived in Ohio.

My grandmother lived in Kentucky and he lived on a hill looking over the Ohio River in an old house that he bought and he just kept fixing up and fixing up.

The funny part about it is he never got anything finished.

So we went there.

We were wearing shoes to bed, but he would never stop, you know, messing with things.

- So this instinct to take natural products and turn them into places that people live, it came honestly.

But if I understand right, you actually grew up in North Carolina.

- I grew up in North Carolina.

- How did the transition come?

- Back in high school.

My father worked for Stroh's brewery.

Famous Stroh's around here.

Right?

And he got the opportunity to come up to Pennsylvania.

And we'd been in North Carolina for more than ten years.

And I think our whole family was looking for something maybe a little different and moved up here when I was a sophomore in high school.

And just through the evolution of things I was here, I stayed here through high school, then through college and met my wife in high school and ended up coming back here to settle.

- Well, thank God you moved up here.

- Yeah, that's true.

The brewery means a lot to me.

Every time I pass it.

- "That got us here."

- That got us here.

- It's amazing how life - unfolds.

Indeed.

Gosh, your family did the inverse of what probably 80% of our audience is thinking about doing, that thing about leaving Pennsylvania, going to North Carolina, South Carolina.

It's a beautiful part of the world.

- It is a beautiful part of the country.

And, you know, you learn, I learn.

I take a lot of the architecture.

It's pretty.

The houses are very pretty.

But, you know, I just really like the valley, you know, and yes, having, you know, dating my wife, and she's born and raised here.

But I love the climate change.

I love New York City's an hour and a half away.

Philly's an hour away.

But we are still a small town, so I've grown to really love it here.

- Coming up in your teens, again, if I understand right, you started working with a builder pretty young.

- Yeah.

Honestly, when we moved up here...

I have six brothers and sisters.

So my father came working for Stroh's and couldn't find a house.

And finally one builder approached them and said, listen, you know, it's hard to find a house with that many bedrooms.

I'll build you a house 100 days.

And he did.

And when I moved in that May, the builder said, you know, I see you have two boys that could work.

If they want work, I got it.

And I started working for the builder over the summer and it just never stopped.

- The idea of... As a young man, I did a very similar thing and you start out, you're a gofer, go for that, go for this, but the transition from I'm the guy that basically is told what to do to I'm the guy that tells other people what to do, how in the world did that work?

- It was a vicious, crazy cycle, if you think about it, because I did work for the builder every summer.

I came home from college and worked for him and he gave me an internship.

Very grateful for what he gave me as a mentor for so many different reasons.

But after college, I was too scared of the industry to go into it.

So I ended up going into insurance.

I did other jobs and I just wasn't happy.

Right?

And, you know, you learn a lot through growing up.

And once we had my first daughter, things just kind of came into perspective.

I really didn't like what I was doing.

And we went back.

As a 26-year-old, I did an aptitude test at a college to see what I wanted to do.

My mom's like, I don't think you're doing what you want to do.

And when that came back and said get out of an office, work with your hands, do all that, and then I just jumped right back into building and then took that knowledge and, you know, kind of it just evolved.

I never really thought I'd have my own business.

- So in essence, there was a plan, it wasn't your plan, but there was a plan that kind of led you from state to state, from place to place, meet your wife.

What did you study in college?

- Business management.

- OK, so that helps a little.

Finished at the University of Scranton, and that's where I had to make up some credits.

And I came back to the guy I was working for and I said, I can't work for you this summer.

I need credits.

And he said, how about an internship?

You can build a house, you get one started.

And the University of Scranton was very helpful in adapting that to work.

And we got that through my junior year.

And so I got to stay with him and that wet my whistle in it.

And right before we got married, I built my first house and did it all through my hands.

- Now, we've mentioned your wife and your first daughter.

Tell us about your family.

- So I'm very lucky there.

I met my wife in high school.

And we stayed through it through college, got married.

And I have three girls and a boy, two in college, one in high school, and my son's 12.

Very lucky.

Very lucky.

It's changed my life.

- Father of three daughters.

And then you end up with a boy.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- You can't always get lucky.

That's the way it goes.

There you go.

What high school did you go to?

- I went to Allentown Central Catholic.

- Goodness.

- Yeah.

- That's a free plug for Allentown Central for developing relationships that last a lifetime.

- Yeah, it's exactly right.

Exactly right.

My daughter's going there now.

- Oh, fantastic.

- Yeah.

- Growing up, you were exposed to the building industry.

- Yes.

- You mentioned your first employer as a kid, kind of as a mentor.

- Yeah.

- Is that how you saw him?

- No, not until I was not working for him any more.

- OK, very good.

- You know, he taught me life lessons that I'll probably never forget.

And there's one instance that I think back to, that my brother and I were working together.

And there was no cell phones back then.

You know, the night before, he tells us where to meet him.

And we were there and he wasn't there.

And we were just at a job site kicking stones, waiting for him to come.

And two hours later, he came and he laid into us pretty good.

And I was just like, well, we're here.

We did what we were supposed to do.

And he just pointed around the job.

There's always... Do this, do that.

And he just said, and I'll never forget, there's always something to do.

And that kind of just has always kicked in.

I just never sit still.

Right?

There's always something to do.

And even through college, that lesson was always very valuable to me.

- Was there anybody in college that was kind of pushing you in the right direction or is that just kind of a parallel piece of the story?

- I'd say parallel.

I think you learn a lot about yourself in college by being independent And I've a great respect for my mom.

Once you go out on your own and you realize how much your mom did for you, so I grew up a lot in college, so I got a lot of life lessons in college.

But I think, you know, you meet a lot of different people.

You read a lot of people.

And I think reading people is a big part of the business.

- Very good.

- And I think through college, you learn a lot of that, too.

But I also learned that you can see how people could be very lazy through college and then people that are...

I worked through college and had to pay my way through and make up credits.

So I was always moving around.

- And reading people is an incredible challenge.

Incredibly valuable to be able to do.

- Absolutely.

- But there's no handbook.

- No, there's not.

- It's OJT, you're on the job and you're kind of mixing and matching and trying to figure people out.

You think that might be part of the reason why Erwin Forrest has been so successful?

- I would.

Absolutely.

Right?

There's a lot of stress levels through building a house.

It's a pretty massive roller coaster.

- Yes.

- There's some exciting things.

And I wouldn't be the first to tell you there's some things that could be a disappointment or be unexpected.

And there's plenty of times round a meeting and we have to just pause because I can see that somebody is just not comfortable with the situation or not understanding.

And if you can read people, you can do a lot of things to make it right.

And we face the music and we try to get that comfort level back and address it.

But reading people, then it goes to employees is a whole nother level of reading people.

- I'm going to suggest something to you.

It's just kind of off the top of my head.

- OK. A little nervous, but...!

- If I'm off base...

I have three daughters, you have three daughters, and I have a wife, you have.

A wife Spending time around four women, I think you either better learn how to read people a little bit better or your life's going to be pretty tough.

- Family teaches you so much.

- I think so.

- And that's one of the beauties of having your business too, is that I can get, you know, generally get home for dinner.

And that was one of the rules is get home for dinner.

Like let's, just have dinner time.

Between the emotions that run through it and the good, the bad, the ugly and having a solid base to come home to is probably the key.

You don't give it enough credit.

- if you had to pick one idea, one lesson, one, anything that came from your daughters, that you would say being the father of daughters, I learned, what would you fill in the blank with?

- I think, you know, with everything, the way they've grown so strong.

Right?

And I give a tremendous amount of credit to my wife for raising... - What's your wife's first name?

- My wife's name is Melissa.

She's in charge of the house.

Right?

And she's raised strong kids.

And I think the determination of each one of my girls, and I have to give credit to my son to there, too, but the determination is remarkable.

And knowing that, you know, my wife is home to take care of them and they're making great decisions, and it just gives you that confidence to go out and do what you want to do.

- Because you've laid the foundation for the next generation.

- I hope so.

I hope so.

I'm very proud of them.

They're doing great things.

- If there was one message that you would want to give your four kids, that Dad always wants you to remember... - Follow your heart.

- Follow your heart.

Very good!

- Absolutely.

I mean, I wasn't following my heart, right?

- And you weren't happy.

- And, you know, when I was a typical college boy, like, I didn't know what I want to do.

I just wanted to make money.

And then I just remember holding my first child and it just puts everything in perspective.

And, you know, I'm not going to be the dream guy to do it.

Follow your heart.

I mean, there's hard steps along the way.

But if you don't have any kind of passion for what you're doing, it's not worth doing.

- You know, a very wise man told me, follow your heart, but figure out a way to get paid for it.

- That's a good point.

- And if you can do what you love to do and figure out a way to get paid for it, then you really never work a day in your life.

It's just so much fun.

You've got a tremendous team around you.

You've built some fantastic homes.

I was on your website and Facebook and just beautiful, beautiful.

- I'm just very lucky.

I really feel like, you know, with the right customers that want to push the envelope and the work crew that I have, I can't describe, they just love the challenge of doing something different.

And we've been very, very fortunate.

- Putting a team like that together isn't easy, but apparently you've had some real success with that.

- Yeah.

You know, we're good people, and if good people have a common goal... You know, we try to treat everybody like family and it goes a long way.

It's like that sports team that, you know, that overachieves for what they have.

A team is huge.

None of us can do it by ourselves.

- Without a doubt.

- I'm just really lucky to have what we have.

- Keith, it has been an absolute pleasure.

We've covered a lot of ground in a very short period of time.

- I can't thank you enough.

- Oh, absolutely my pleasure.

And at some point, we're going to meet Melissa because she's going to be a pretty special lady.

- I would love to do that.

- Well, thank you so much.

Folks, Erwin Forrest Builders, fantastic story.

A lot of lessons in there.

A lot of issues around family and around legacy and around multi generations, grandparents... Did they ever think that at some point, many, many years in the future, their names would be emblazoned upon the signs in front of some of the most beautiful homes being constructed in the Lehigh Valley?

I doubt it.

I doubt it, seriously.

And perhaps you didn't think that many, many months ago your emails would end up on More Than Money.

But as we thank Keith for his time today, we're going to shift gears and go right to your emails.

Whoa.

Very, very interesting question.

Right, let's talk about the structure of the situation first.

This young lady's husband set up his IRA with an annuity, one that would pay for as long as either he or she were alive.

He has since passed.

So her annuity now will provide for her for her lifetime, as long as she stays, in terms of her withdrawal, stays under the lifetime guarantee.

So I'm going to use a very simple set of numbers.

You heard the email and read the email with me.

So these are not from her specifically.

These are demonstration numbers.

He invested 100,000.

The annuity company guarantees that they could take 5%, 5,000, a year out for as long as either of them lives.

And the 100,000 now is invested hopefully well, hopefully well, so that hopefully the investments end up giving us enough capital that the 5,000 a year can come out every year and be replenished.

Translation, hopefully it earns at least a 5% net rate of return.

If that is true, at some point in the future, it will still be worth 100, 5,000 out, 5,000 back in each year.

And that's what her family will receive when she passes.

Now, she doesn't need all that income.

She doesn't need the 5,000 a year in my example, she needs either none of it or very, very little of it.

And she's wondering if she should push that off.

She's wondering if maybe she should take it and give it away now.

And the answer, in my opinion, starts with her last sentence.

"I am 71."

71 when I was growing up was five years past deceased.

71 today is 25 years before she should start thinking about making her final arrangements.

She has a tremendously long life ahead of her, hopefully a tremendously long life, hopefully healthy, tremendously long life, which means money she doesn't need right this moment she might very well need in five years, ten years, 15 or 20, and hopefully much, much longer with health care being what it is.

Is it possible that she's with this 29 years and she celebrates the year 100?

Sure.

So in my opinion, it's too early to be giving money away.

If she doesn't need the cash flow, it can stay in that annuity, and that annuity instead of going from 100, taking five out, putting five back in and staying 100, could go from 100 to 10,510, 120 etc and provide in her later years increased income that might very well come into good use.

In the event that none of that unfolds, all this money accrues and she doesn't need it, she doesn't take it, when she passes that's a larger inheritance to her children and/or grandchildren and with any luck, great-grandchildren.

But along the way, it gives her, I hope, peace of mind, knowing that she has these assets available for her future, which we hope is a very long one.

I don't know her family.

I don't know this young lady, but I'm assuring her that the number one best gift that she can give her family is to stay financially independent the entirety of her life, and having this plan set up by her husband to provide her with a mechanism that says she will never run out of money... She's got a Social Security that hopefully, we'll see, never runs out of money.

She's got a pension fund that's been set up to never run out of money.

And she has this annuity that is set up to never run out of money.

It's a very good plan.

Stick with the plan, stay happy, stay healthy, stay active, stay involved and stick with this for such a long period of time your kids even forget that they're expecting an inheritance.

That's a good idea.

Gene@askmtm.com is the email address you send me your emails.

We'll go to another one.

"We got married in September."

Congratulations.

That's a very good question, and the fact that you're asking your parents these things and getting answers that are all over the place isn't surprising.

Parents all come with their own set of ideas, probably received from their parents and other folks that they're kind of hanging with.

Hopefully their friends are smart, but who knows?

They're your parents, you know what I'm saying?

And you're 26.

You already know everything.

I'm kidding.

I'm just kidding.

First of all, congratulations.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things.

Congratulations on your marriage, on your home, your good jobs, your 401(k)s. These are all fantastic.

Now, the rule of thumb often used throughout eternity in terms of investment advisors is that you should have somewhere between three and six months of your gross income in the bank for emergencies.

I'm here to tell you that, sadly, that's wrong.

It absolutely is not a good rule of thumb, doesn't really get you anywhere.

If you've been hearing something like that from your parents, it's one of the reasons why you're kind of going I'm not really sure that makes a lot of sense.

And here's why.

It doesn't matter how much you make.

What matters is how much do you need to spend so that you're not in a pickle, not a terribly sophisticated word in the financial industry, but you don't want to get in a pickle.

Well, you together might be making on, picking a number, $10,000 a month.

But if you're smart, you're only spending four.

And if you're only spending four what you really need is to save, in my opinion, between six and 12 months of what you need on a monthly basis to spend.

So in my demonstration, if it's 4,000, I need you to have between 24,000 and 48,000 in the bank.

The lower number would be OK, I think perfectly acceptable.

I think the higher the number is for people who are a little more conservative, perhaps, maybe you're a little more concerned about the future and considering all the craziness that's going on in the world, I would understand that you could be concerned about the future.

Then having a bit more in your emergency fund absolutely makes sense.

The fact that you both have good jobs, likely with good benefits, you're already putting some money away for retirement is a very, very good start, a very, very good structure that you're building on.

Adding your emergency fund is the next.

I'm going to give you an answer that you did not ask.

Are you ready for this one?

Learn to budget, learn to spend half of your income.

Now, why would I say that?

Well, I can't say for sure, because I don't know you personally, but 26-year-olds who are recently married have a tendency to, what's it called?

Oh, yeah, parenthood.

They may very well have this high probability of someday wanting to have children.

And one of the challenges of having children if you have a dual income family, is that our spending is based on two incomes.

And if we chop off one income, it gets really, really sticky, really, really tough.

It doesn't have to be.

Now's the perfect time.

Now is the time to figure out, how do we live on one income?

And hey, I'm a modern guy, it's the 21st century.

It might be stay at home dad that we're replacing.

But bottom line is, it doesn't matter who's going to stay home.

My guess is, my hope is, one of you is going to stay home and take care of little one, little ones.

I can't predict that.

But learn to live on one income.

Learn to live budget.

Learn to have all the good things in life by spending less, stretching more and banking as much of that second income as you possibly can right up to the point where you start your family.

I think you will find, looking back, that it will make starting that family ever more joyous than it already will be.

I wish you great success.

I'm so glad that you watch our show as a young couple.

We're trying to appeal to all the demographics out there, and that's maybe the demographic that we can have the greatest impact on and really set you on your right path.

Speaking of being on the right path, I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Keith Hoeing.

Fantastic insights.

Very, very interesting indeed.

Check him out.

I think you're going to find that entire story for his building company and his family to be one that you'll really enjoy.

Secondly, hopefully you learned a little bit from the answers that we gave to our emailers this evening.

Be one of those.

Send your email to me, gene@askmtm.com.

And yes, investments and retirement, income taxes and estate planning.

Those are all fair game.

But remember the story, the title, the entire mission of our show is More Than Money.

So if you've got questions that are a little More Than Money, send them to me and maybe next week when we're here we'll answer your questions on More Than Money.