>> Ted: COMING UP NEXT ON"ARIZONA HORIZON," CONGRESSMAN GREG STANTON TO TALK ABOUT THE CHAOS ON CAPITOL HILL.

AND DID MOTZART PLAGIARIZE THE MUSIC OF OTHERS?.

>> FALLOUT OVER YESTERDAY'S HISTORIC REMOVAL OF U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER KEVIN McCARTHY.

IN FIGHTING LEADS TO REPUBLICANS WITH THE VOTE AND IT'S NOT LETTING UP.

>> SOMEONE THREW A GRENADE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HOUSE FLOOR AND THERE'S A REASON THIS HASN'T BEEN DONE IN WELL OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED AND DONE FOR SELFISH REASONS AND FUNDRAISING REASONS.

YOU DON'T THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH ADVANCING CONSERVATIVE CAUSES.

>> I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A RECKONING IN THE CONFERENCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE EIGHT INDIVIDUALS THAT SELFISHLY UPENDED OUR HOUSE MAJORITY.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW THEY INTEND TO DEAL WITH THOSE EIGHT.

>> Ted: OHIO REPRESENTATIVE JIM JORDAN, IS SLATED TO BE THE NEXT SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER STEVE SCALISE ANNOUNCED HI HIS CANDIDACY AND THEY THOUGHT HAKEEM JEFFRIES SHOULD BE THE NEXT SPEAKER.

>> I THINK FIVE REPUBLICANS OR MORE HAVE TO ZOOM OUT, RECOGNIZE THE MOMENT WE'RE AT IN HISTORY WHERE UNPRECEDENTED TERRITORY.

WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN ALMOST 250 YEARS.

WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING HAS NOT WORKED.

I'M CALLING ON FIVE REPUBLICANS TO UNIFY WITH US AS DEMOCRATS SUPPORT HAKEEM JEFFRIES AND LET'S MOVE IT FORWARD.

>> Ted: FOR OTHERS ON CAPITOL HILL INCLUDING THE STOP-GAP MEASURE, WE WELCOME GREG STANTON.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

WITHOUT A SPEAKER, WE CAN'T GET THE BUSINESS OF CONGRESS DONE.

>> Ted: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF YESTERDAY?

>> WELL, IT'S A SAD, SOLEMN TIME AND THE FIRST TIME IN THE UNITED STATES' HISTORY THAT THERE HAS BEEN THE VACATING OF THE OFFICE OF THE SPEAKER AND KEVIN McCARTHY IS THE SPEAKER AND HE'S NO LONGER THE SPEAKER.

THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS NOW IS TO SELECT A NEW SPEAKER OF HOUSE.

UNTIL WE DO THAT, THE BUSINESS OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CAN'T HAPPEN.

>> Ted: SAD, SOLEMN TIME BUT YOU DID VOTE TO REMOVE THE SPEAKER, WHY?

>> I DID VOTE TO REMOVE THE SPEAKER AND I'LL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHY.

THIS SPEAKER HAS OVERSEEN A CHAOTIC, HYPERPARTISAN CONGRESS DURING HIS NINE MONTHS IN OFFICE.

ALWAYS SEEKING TO APPEASE THE MOST EXTREME ELEMENTS OF THE PARTY INSTEAD OF WORKING IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

A PERFECT EXAMPLE, EVERY YEAR I'VE BEEN IN CONGRESS, I'VE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE NATIONAL DEFENSE BILL TO SUPPORT THE PENTAGON AND PASSED THROUGH COMMITTEE WITH ONE DISSENTING VOTE.

BY THE TIME IT GOT TO THE FLOOR, KEVIN McCARTHY ALLOWED ALL OF THESE AMENDMENTS, BANNING ABORTION FOR SERVICEWOMEN IN THE MILITARY TO POINT, WE DON'T RECOGNIZE THIS BILL.

THIS IS A CULTURE WAR BILL.

THAT'S MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

HE MADE AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE KEVIN UNITED STATES FOR THE DEBT LIMIT DEBATE.

I VOTED FOR THAT AND HE RENEGED ON THAT.

YOU CAN'T GOVERN WITHOUT TRUST.

YOU CAN'T GOVERN BY GOING TO THE EXTREMES AND KEVIN McCARTHY FAILED THAT TEST AND I VOTED TO VACATE THE OFFICE.

>> Ted: SOME SAY THAT WAS A VOTE AGAINST STABILITY AND YOU COULD HAVE THROWN HIM A LIFE LINE IF YOU COULD HAVE GOTTEN SOME CONCESSIONS OUT OF HIM.

ARE THEY ORANGE WRONG?

>> NO.

HE CERTAINLY COULD HAVE REMAINED SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHEN.

WHEN THE DEMOCRATS WERE IN CHARGE, WE PASSED IN A BIPARTISAN WAY AND WE PASSED THE CHIP'S ABILITY WHICH WILL HELP THE SEMICONDUCTOR INDUSTRY IN ARIZONA AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND ALL OF THE MAJOR BILLS WERE DONE IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

THIS YEAR, UNDER KEVIN McCARTHY'S LEADERSHIP, NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE OCCURRING.

HE, AGAIN, WAS ALWAYS AFRAID OF THE RIGHT FLANK INSTEAD OF MOVING ACROSS THE I'VE.

YOU CAN'T GOVERN FROM THE EXTREMES.

YOU HAVE TO GOVERN FROM THE CENTER TO BE A SUCCESSFUL SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

>> Ted: WHEN REPUBLICANS SAY THEY, CONGRESS IS MADE UP OF A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT AMERICA WANTS TO SEE AND YET, DEMOCRATS, THROUGH THEIRTHREW THEIR OWN GRENADE INTO THAT SITUATION.

YOU SAY IN.

>> THIS IS DIVIDED GOVERNMENT, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT YOU MAY BE THE MAJORITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, BUT YOU HAVE TO GOVERN IN A BIPARTISAN WAY BECAUSE THE SENATE IS LEAD BY THE DEMOCRATS AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS A DEMOCRAT AND WHAT WE WANT IS TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE.

LET'S MEAT IN THE MIDDLE AND THAT'S HOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EXPECT US TO LEAD, TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

IN LEADERSHIP, YOU DON'T GET EVERYTHING YOU WANT.

YOU COMPROMISE AND DO THINGS FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY BY MOVING THINGS FORWARD.

THE WAY KEVIN McCARTHY WAS GOVERNING, PROMISES TO MOST EXTREME MEMBERS.

DELAYING THE PROCESS AND ALMOST LEAD US TO A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND THAT'S POOR LEADERSHIP.

>> Ted: HE DID WORK WITH DEMOCRATS WORKED WITH YOU TO KEEP IT OPEN.

>> HE DIDN'T WALK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS AND AT THE LAST MINUTE, THE LAST POSSIBLE OPTION THAT HE HAD.

I SUPPORTED IT.

I DIDN'T LOVE THE BILL.

IT DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE IN THIS HORRIFIC INVASION BY PUGH TAN PUTAN AND WE NEEDED THAT FOR THE DEFENSE OF UKRAINE AND EUROPE, A NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST.

AND IT DIDN'T HAVE ADDITIONAL RESOURCES FOR BORDER SECURITY.

I ASKED THE PRESIDENT TO DO A BORDER SUPPLEMENTAL.

THERE WERE NO ADDITIONAL RESOURCES TO SUPPORT THE WOMEN AND MEN PROTECTING OUR BORDER AND I FEEL LIKE THE CR WASN'T EVERYTHING I WANTED.

BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE ORDER, I SUPPORTED IT.

>> Ted: MCCARTHY FELT HUNG OUT TO DRY BY DEMOCRATS BECAUSE HE HELPED WITH THE DEBT LIMB IN LIMIT IN THE SPRING AND THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN HERE AND GOES IN FRONT OF CAMERAS YESTERDAY AND BLAMES YOU GUYS FROM BEING OUTED FROM THE SPEAKERSHIP.

>> THE TRUTH IS THAT HE DID DEMAND THAT THE PRESIDENT NEGOTIATE WITH HIM FOR THE DEBT LIMIT.

THE PRESIDENT DID NEGOTIATE WITH HIM AND CAME TO AN AGREEMENT THAT DID INCLUDE REAL BUDGET CAPS AND THE CENTRIST, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICANS CENTRISTS VOTED FOR THAT.

I VOTED FOR THAT AND JUST A FEW DAYS LATER, KEVIN McCARTHY, BECAUSE OF PRESSURE FROM THE FIRE EXTREME ELEMENTS OF HIS PARTY, RENEGED ON THAT AGREEMENT.

WHEN YOU MAKE AN AGREEMENT, YOU HAVE TO KEEP THAT AGREEMENT, EVEN IF YOU HAVE CRITICS.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE CRITICS IN POLITICS, BUT WHEN YOU MAKE AN AGREEMENT, YOU HAVE TO STICK WITH IT.

>> Ted: WHO DO YOU WANT TO SEE, BUT THESE FIVE REPUBLICANS, WHO KNOWS.

IN THIS CLIMATE, WHO KNOWS?

BUT THE REPUBLICAN LEADER NEXT WILL HAVE TO, AGAIN, RECOGNIZE THAT RIGHT FLANK.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THAT?

>> NO, THEY DON'T IF YOU GIVE INTO THE EXTREMENESS OF YOUR OWN PARTY, LEFT OR RIGHT, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE A SUCCESSFUL SPEAKER.

WE KNOW THE NEXT SPEAKER WILL BE A REPUBLICAN.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES IS AN AMAZING LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS.

LET'S PICK ONE LEADER THAT KNOWS TO GETTENINGS GET THINGS DONE, YOU HAVE TO WORK IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

IF YOU GIVE INTO THE STREAM EXTREMISTS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE HELD HOSTAGE BY THEM.

INSTEAD, SHOW THE STRENGTH AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE SYSTEM THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

THAT'S HOW YOU GET THINGS DONE.

>> Ted: ARE ARMS REACHING ACROSS THE AISLE RIGHT NOW?

OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE HERE AND EVERYONE IS SCATTERED TO THE WIND, BUT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THAT KIND OF THING BEING A POSSIBILITY?

STEVE SCALISE AND JIM JORDAN, DOESN'T SEEM LIKE CENTRISM GOING ON THERE.

>> IT WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR SOMEONE TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS THAT KEVIN McCARTHY DID, PROMISING THE MOON AND STARS AND INEVITABLY HE WOULDN'T KEEP THOSE COMMITMENTS.

BE TRANSPARENT AND HONEST ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH AND LET PEOPLE KNOW YOU'LL WORK IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

IF AND WHEN THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE GOING ON ABOUT ACTUALLY DOING A BIPARTISAN COMPROMISE ON A NEW SPEAKER, I WILL NOT SPEAK ABOUT THAT HERE ON THIS TELEVISION SHOW.

BUT THAT WOULD BE THE RIGHT RESULT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> Ted: THE RIGHT RESULT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO STAY IN BUSINESS.

WE HAVE SIX WEEKS FROM NOW, ARE WE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE SAME SONG AND DANCE WITH THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

>> IF YOU PICK A SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE CAPTURED BY HIS OR HER ON PARTY AND NOT WORK IN A SINCERE BIPARTISAN WAY, THE SENATE PUT FORWARD A PROPOSAL.

WE SHOULD DO THE SAME THING.

IN A GUYEDED DIVIDED GOVERNMENT, YOU CAN ONLY SOLVE IT BY WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE.

IF THEY CHOOSE THE KEVIN McCARTHY PATH, WE ARE LOOKING AT A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

IF THEY CHOOSE WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE IN A BIPARTISAN WAY, WE CAN REACH A REASONABLE BUDGET AND NO ONE WILL GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT.

WE CAN REACH A COMPROMISE AND MOVE OR COUNTRY FORWARD.

>> Ted: IT FEELS FROM A DISTANCE, BUT IT FEELS LIKE THE HOUSE IS COMPLETE CHAOS AND THE BUSINESS OF THE PEOPLE IS NOT GETTING DONE.

IS THAT ACCURATE?

>> WE DON'T HAVE A SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

UNTIL WE SELECT A SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, IT WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR THE PEOPLE'S WORK TO GET DONE.

THE REPUBLICANS WHO PUT FORWARD A MODERATE LEADER, ONE WHO CAN REACH ACROSS THUAL.

THE AISLE.

WE CAN GET ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF SERVING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> Ted: WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN WASHINGTON AND IN ARIZONA, A LOT OF WATER ISSUES AND THE GOVERNOR TELLING THE SAUDI ARABIA COMPANY TO KNOCK OFF THE ALFALFA THAT WITH THE GROUNDWATER.

WATER ISSUES, BIGGEST CONCERN, AND WHERE DO WE GO?

>> AS YOU KNOW, IN THE YOU BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, THERE WERE RESOURCES DEALING WITH DROUGHT ISSUES IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

WE ARE PAYING WATER USERS NOT TO USE WATER FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

WE BOUGHT OURSELVES A FEW YEARS AS A RESULT.

LONG-TERM, THAT'S NOT A SOLUTION.

WE NEED MUCH MORE WITH CONSERVATION AND RECLAMATION.

IT WILL TAKE INVESTMENTS AND WORKING WITH COMMUNITIES IN MY DISTRICTS AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE TO BETTER RECYCLE WATER AND DRAW DOWN LESS WATER FROM THE COLORADO RIVER.

>> Ted: IS THAT A BIPARTISAN EFFORT OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU AND DEMOCRATS LIKE TO SEE AND REPUBLICANS DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANY PART OF?

>> THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE LAW WAS BIPARTISAN AND THEN ONE WITH ONLY DEMOCRAT VOTES.

MOVING FORWARD, WORKING TOGETHER, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SOLVE THE DROUGHT CRISIS, 24 YEARS OF DROUGHT, THE WORST IN 1200 YEARS HERE IN ARIZONA, THE ONLY WAY TO RESOLVE THOSE ISSUES IS IN A BIPARTISAN WAY AND IN AN INTERNATIONAL WAY.

AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO HAVE A TREATY WITH MEXICO WHO HAS A CLAIM ON THE COLORADO RIVER WATER.

THERE'S NO PATH TO SOLVE MAJOR ISSUE IF IT'S NOT A BIPARTISAN PATH.

>> Ted: ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Ted: UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, IS ARIZONA REAL ESTATE BECOMING TOO EXPENSIVE FOR RETIREES?

>> PART OF OURMANLY AARP SPONSOR SEGMENT LIGHTING ISSUES TO OLDER ADULTS AND HOW REAL ESTATE IS PRICING OUT SOME RETIREES AND WE WELCOME, CATHERINE REAGOR FOR THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Ted: ARE WE BECOMING TOO EXPENSIVE FOR RETIREES?

>> WE ARE EXPENSIVE FOR A LOT OF RETIREES.

WE WERE KNOWN FOR BEING AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND MEDIUM PRICES WERE BELOW NATIONAL MEDIANS.

SUN CITY, WHAT, 60 SOME YEARS AGOING, THE COMPANY BASED HERE AND WE WERE A DRAW.

BUT WITH ARE NOW MORE EXPENSIVE.

>> Ted: WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?

CHECK THAT.

IS THIS HAPPENING IN RETIREMENT AREAS, THE SUN LAKES AND SUN CITIES TO THE SAME EXTENT IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS?

>> IT IS HAPPENING.

IT'S HAPPENING ACROSS THE VALLEY.

WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT HOUSING FOR SENIORS.

THERE'S THE MOBILE HOME AND MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS WHICH ARE MORE AFFORDABLE AND THE SUN LAKES AND SUN CITIES THAT ARE MORE EXPENSIVE AND A COMMUNITY THAT'S HIGH-END.

EVEN THOUGH OUR HOUSING MARKET HAS SLOWED A LITTLE BIT AND PRICES ARE DOWN FROM LAST YEAR, THERE WAS NO CRASH.

MODERATING, WE SAW PRICES STARTING TO CLIMB AND THOSE SPECIFIC MARKETS, SUN CITY AND SUN LAKE, THEY'RE SELLER'S MARKETS, JUST LIKE OTHER PARTS OF THE VALLEY.

>> Ted: WOW!

>> TO IF YOUSO IF YOU OWN A RETIREMENT ONE, YOU'RE IN GREAT SHAPE, BUT BUYING ONE IS TOUGHER.

>> Ted: IS THERE ENOUGH HOUSING TO MEET SUPPLY?

>> ONE REASON OUR HOME PRICES AREN'T DROPPING MORE IS BECAUSE WE HAVE SO LITTLE SUPPLY.

I MEAN REALLY LITTLE SUPPLY, ALMOST HISTORICALLY LOW BECAUSE HOMEOWNERS SELL AND WHERE WILL I BUY?

IF I NEED A MORTGAGE, LOOK AT THE INTEREST RATES.

>> Ted: SOUNDS LIKE NEW HOME BUILDING NOT BACK FROM THE GREAT RECESSION.

>> NOT EVEN CLOSE.

I THINK DURING THE BOOM YEARS OF 2005 OR 2006, 60,000 NEW HOMES AND 20,000 NOW AND INTEREST RATES ARE IMPACTING HOME BUILDERS, TOO.

NOT JUST BECAUSE OF FEWER BUYERS BUT BECAUSE WHAT WE PAY AND LAND COSTS.

>> Ted: THE IMPACT ON ROW RETIREES HERE, ON 401(K)'S AND PENSION PLANS, WHERE DO THEY GO?

TEXAS, FLORIDA?

WE USED TO BE BETTER THAN THOSE GUYS.

>> WE USED TO BE MORE AFFORDABLE AND I LIKED AT THE HOUSING MARKETS AND WE'RE MORE EXPENSIVE.

WE WERE ALWAYS IN THE TOP FIVE FOR DRAWING RETIREES AS THEY ARE AND A BIT OF COMPETITION.

CALIFORNIA IS A BIG DRAW AND MORE EXPENSIVE, BUT YEAH, WE'RE SEEING HOME BUILDERS ARE PUTTING UP MORE RETIREMENT HOMES IN THOSE STATES.

>> Ted: ARE THEY DOING IT IN THIS STATE?

>> NOT AS MANY.

I HAVE NOT SEEN A NEW COMMUNITY OPEN IN AWHILE AND THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT STILL HAVE SPACE, STILL HAVE SPACE TO BUILD IN THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CENSUS DATA, THERE'S A DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT.

THERE'S 18 TO 30'S AND A LOT OF GROWTH FOR THE JOBS, WHICH IS GREAT AND NOT AS MUCH GROWTH IN THE RETIREMENT SEGMENT.

>> Ted: RENTALS, HOW DOES THAT FACTOR INTO THIS?

>> I'VE TALKED TO A LOT -- WE HAVE VISITORS, WHICH IS A BIG BOOM.

HIGHER RENTS, I HAVE HEARD FROM SOME WHO HAVE OPTED NOT TO COME BACK FROM IN THE SUMMER, EVEN DURING THE PANDEMIC AND MORE ARE OPTING OTHER AREAS.

ALSO THE MIDWEST TO BUY OR RENT MAYBE IN KANSAS, BUT OTHER AREAS COMING FROM MAYBE WARMER CLIMATES.

>> Ted: THE DOWNWARD PUSH ON HOPE PRICES HERE, THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO CAN RELATIVELY AFFORD.

THE HOMELESS POPULATION, THAT'S INCREASING EXPONENTIALLY.

>> THE BIGGEST GROWTH AREA AND JUST HEARTBREAKING.

PARTICULARLY PEOPLE ON FIXED INCOME.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT KEEPING UP WITH RENT AND CAN'T BUY HOMES AND THE INFLATION.

AND ALL OF THE DIFFERENT COSTS AND I KNOW AT CERTAIN MANUFACTURED HOME AND MOBILE HOME PARKS, PRICES ARE GOING UP ON THE RENTAL.

SO EVEN IF THEY OWN THAT HOME, TO RENT THE LAND, THAT LEASE HAS GONE UP BEYOND AND THEY'RE TRYING TO SELL THOSE.

>> Ted: ANY SIGN OF THIS TURNING AROUND?

>> NO.

I'VE NOT SEEN IT.

BECAUSE IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR ECONOMY AND SUCH A DRAW WITH THE WEATHER, GOLF, THE GREAT VENUES AND COMMUNITIES.

BUT NO, NOT SEEING THAT TURN.

RENTS ARE FLATTENING OUT AND DIPPING A LITTLE BIT AND WE'LL SEE HOW MANY WINTER VISITORS WE GET.

>> Ted: CATHERINE REAGOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU AND GOOD INFORMATION.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> Ted: DID MOTZART COPY THE WORK OF OTHER COMPOSERS?

TO HELP ANSWER THAT QUESTION, THE ORCHESTRA IS PREMIERING, " "MOTZART, PLAGIARIST."

>> THE BEGINNING OF THE JUPITER SYMPHONY BEGINS TO THE SYMPHONY NUMBER 13.

NOW THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT AND THERE'S A LOT OF WIGGLE ROOM IN TERMS OF WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT MAKES HIM A PLAGIARIST OR NOT.

>> Ted: WE HAVE SOUND SNIPPETS OF MOTZART AND HYDEN.

LET'S PLAY THOSE AND COMPARE.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> Ted: I MEAN, ARE WE TALKING PLAGIARISM OR INSPIRATION HERE?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S EITHER AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE COMBINATIONS OF NOTES, THAT'S AN EXTRAORDINARILY COMBINATION OF NOTES.

THE TWO PIECES ON THE FIRST HALF OF THE PROGRAM, WHICH IS A NEW ONE, BOTH WRITTEN IN THE PAST YEAR.

I ASKED HIM TO INCORPORATE THAT PARTICULAR FIGURE INTO HIS PIECE AND HE DID.

>> Ted: HEAVYAND HE DID.

WAS THAT A COMMON PRACTICE BACK IN MOTZART'S DAY?

>> IT'S LIKE THAT IN A LOT OF MUSIC AND IN JAZZ, FOR EXAMPLE, IN JAZZ IMPROVISERS, THEY DO A CERTAIN PIECE AND WHAT THEY'LL DO IS THAT INCORPORATE THINGS FROM OTHER PIECES INTO IT.

IN FACT, THE INTERESTING THING IS THERE'S ONLY A LIMITED AMOUNT OF INFORMATION IN MUSIC THAT SOUNDS GOOD.

THEREFORE, YOU WILL SEE THE SAME THINGS COMING UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

AS AN EXAMPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE TAKING THE PROGRESSION OF CORDS, THE CERTAIN SEQUENCES OF CORDS THAT ARE USED, THERE'S ABOUT TEN OF THEN THAT WORK TO ALL OF MUSIC.

>> Ted: YES.

>> THERE WAS A PLAGIARISM CASE WITH ED SHEERAN AND ED TOWNSEND AND NOT BECAUSE THE NOTES WERE THE SAME BUT BECAUSE THE RHYTHM WAS SO SIMILAR AND BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THE CORDS WERE SO SIMILAR.

>> Ted: I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, THERE WAS NO DECEPTION INVOLVED IN WHAT MOTZART WAS DOING, I WOULD IMAGINE.

IF THERE'S NO DECEPTION, CAN YOU CALL IT PLAGIARISM?

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

THERE MAY HAVE BEEN DECEPTION.

AND IN FACT, MOTZART IN OTHER CASES WAS KNOWN TO HAVE ACTUALLY DECEIVED PEOPLE AND USE MATERIAL FROM OTHER COMPOSERS.

THERE'S A HISTORY THERE AND THERE WAS A COMPETITION IN 1784 WITH THE PIANIST CLEMENTE AND RIPPED OFF A PORTION AND USE IT IN THE OVER OVERTURE TO THE MAGIC FLUTE.

>> Ted: MAYBE HE WAS CURSED WITH A GREAT MEMORY, HUH?

>> DEFINITELY WAS.

>> Ted: IN THE PROGRAM, YOU'LL COMPARE AND CONTRAST THESE TWO AND YOU MENTION NEW STUFF COMING IN HERE.

>> THERE'S A CONCERTO, A NEW PIECE THAT GRAHAM CONE WILL PREMIERE AND ONE BY RIVER SA CHAM AND BOTH USE THAT SAME FIGURE BUT DOESN'T SOUND THE SAME BECAUSE IT'S HANDLED IN SUCH A DIFFERENT WAY.

>> Ted: ARE THEY ADMIRING MOTZART?

>> THEY DEFINITELY DO.

[ Laughter ] >> NOT SURE IF THEY WERE DOING THAT TO ADMIRE HIM, BUT DO, IN FACT, ADD HIRE ADMIRE HIM.

THIS IS AT THE MUSICAL INSTRUMENT'S MUSEUM, 6:00 P.M.

THIS SUNDAY AND THAT'S WHEN YOU'LL HEAR IT.

>> Ted: LAST QUESTION.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAS PLAGUED MOTZART OVER THE YEARS OR NOW BUBBLING UP?

>> IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOREVER.

AND THEN AGAIN, MANY PEOPLE HAVE STOLEN FROM MOTZART, AS WELL, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM OF CANADA "OH CANADA."

>> Ted: NOW YOU HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT SAYING GOODBYE.

[ Laughter ] >> Ted: GOOD STUFF AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.