>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> Eric: ON TONIGHT'S SHOW POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS ON THE TRUMP GUILTY VERDICT.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA HAS A THOUGHT-PROVOKING ESSAY FOR US, WE'LL FILL THE COUCH WITH RETIRING LAWMAKERS.

AND MARY LAHAMMER HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE MINNEAPOLIS SHOOTING DEATH OF A POLICE OFFICER AND TWO OTHERS.

MA'AM MA'AM WE'LL TALK TO POLICY MAKERS ABOUT SOLUTIONS.

>> WE NEED TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS NOT GOING TO STAND UP FOR VIOLENCE.

THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

EDUCATION MINNESOTA, THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

AND PAINT CARE, HELPING MINNESOTANS RECYCLE LEFTOVER PAINT.

MORE AT PAINTCARE.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

>> Eric: WE HAVE A LOT TO COVER IN THE NEXT HOUR.

POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS ARE HERE TO REFLECT ON THE HISTORIC FELONY CONVICTION OF A FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT.

THE HEAD OF HAZELDEN BETTY FORD JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT 75 YEARS OF TREATING ADDICTION.

AND REQUIRING LAWMAKERS WILL LOOK BACK AT LIFE AT THE CAPITOL AND MAYBE OFFER SOME ADVICE TO FUTURE LEGISLATORS.

>> Cathy: WE START TODAY WITH SOMBER NEWS.

THE SHOOTING IN THE WHITTIER NEIGHBORHOOD OF SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS THAT LEFT THREE DEAD AND FOUR WOUNDED.

AMONG THE DEAD, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER JAMAL MITCHELL AND THE SUSPECTED SHOOTER.

MITCHELL IS THE FIRST POLICE OFFICER SHOT IN THE LINE OF DUTY IN MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

MARY LAHAMMER HAS REACTIONS FROM POLICY LEADERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

>> TODAY THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS LOST HERO IN POLICE OFFICER JAMAL MITCHELL.

>> FOR MINNESOTANS, HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS, BUT ACROSS THE STATE YOU'RE FEELING THE TRAUMA OF THIS ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE INSTANCES SHOULD BE UNTHINKABLE, BUT IT'S VERY THINKABLE BECAUSE IT'S NOW HAPPENED FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS.

WHERE WE'VE HAD PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICERS RESPONDING TO THE CALL THAT PEOPLE MAKE TO 911, RUSHING INTO THAT SITUATION AND IN THIS CASE BEING AMBUSHED AND A LOSS OF LIFE FOR OFFICER MITCHELL.

THAT TRAUMA QUICKLY SHOULD TURN TO ANGER, AND A COMMITMENT THAT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, AS FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM YOUR COLLEAGUES AT THIS POINT?

>> HAD A LOT OF TEXT MESSAGES FROM PEOPLE WE KNOW THAT ARE RETIRED OR AND REACHED OUT TO PEOPLE THAT WERE STILL IN THE FIELD AND FRIENDS THAT I HAVE THAT ARE STILL WORKING AT MINNEAPOLIS.

JUST CHECKING IN WITH THEM, LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTED AND WE'RE HERE FOR THEM.

>> HOW ABOUT YOU PERSONALLY?

THIS CAN'T GET EASIER EVERY TIME IT HAPPENS.

>> NO, BUT I LOOK AT PEOPLE LIKE DREW EVANS, SUPERINTENDENT EVANS AND SEE WHAT HE GOES THROUGH AND CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT'S LIKE.

>> THIS IS HAPPENING FAR TOO OWN IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA AND SOMETHING DEFINITELY NEEDS TO CHANGE.

WHAT WE HAD TODAY WAS ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER IN THE LINE OF DUTY RUSHING TOWARDS DANGER WHO ANSWERED THE CALL FOR SERVICE AND THE FIRST THING HE DID WHEN HE GOT OUT OF HIS CAR WAS TRIED TO HELP VICTIMS AT A SCENE AND HE WAS AMBUSHED.

I'M SEEING THAT FAR TOO OFTEN WHEN INDIVIDUALS ARE DOING THAT ON IA REGULAR BASIS, WHERE THEY'RE DOING THEIR JOBS AND THE FIRST THING THEY ENCOUNTER IS GUNFIRE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE SITUATION WE'RE FACED WITH THE SECOND TIME THIS YEAR?

WHILE IT'S BEEN OVER 20 YEARS SINCE WE'VE LOST A MINNEAPOLIS OFFICER, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THIS YEAR IN MINNESOTA, THIS HURTS ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL WITH THAT CONTEXT, DOESN'T IT?

>> IT'S EVERY DAY, MARY.

IF YOU JUST LOOK, LAST WEEK WE HAD THE ASSAULT ON THE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS AT STILLWATER.

THIS IS A VERY BAD TREND AND SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE THE WAY NOT ONLY LAW ENFORCEMENTS ARE VIEWED BUT HOW THE PUBLIC TREATS EACH OTHER.

>> BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE BEEN SAYING ONE THING VERY SIMILAR, AND THAT'S THIS HAS TO STOP.

WHAT ARE SOLUTIONS?

>> WE NEED TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS NOT GOING TO STAND UP FOR VIOLENCE.

AND VIOLENT CRIMINALS HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

YOU ARE THE REPUBLICAN LEAD ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE.

WHAT IS THE PRACTICAL LEGISLATIVE REACTION?

>> WE CAN LOOK OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN ON PEOPLE THAT HAVE SHOWN A BLATANT DISREGARD FOR THE VALUE OF THE LIVES OF OTHERS ND THEY ARE CONTINUOUSLY NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE, AND THAT JUST ENCOURAGES MORE SERIOUS OF THE SAME BEHAVIOR.

>> TOUGHER SENTENCES?

NEW GUIDELINES, IS THAT WHAT THAT MEANS?

>> WE HAVE GUIDELINES, MARY.

THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWED.

AND AN OVERWHELMING PERCENT OF THE CASES SOMEONE COMMITS A VIOLENT CRIME, ANY TIMES -- AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS OFF THE TOP -- TWO-THIRDS OF THE TIME SOMEONE WHO COMMITS A VIOLENT CRIME WITH A FIREARM WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MANDATORY COMMIT DOESN'T GET IT.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE WEAPON?

WHAT ABOUT THE GUNS, ECAUSE CLEARLY THERE ARE TOO MANY GUNS OUT THERE.

THAT'S FAIR, RIGHT?

BAD GUYS ARE DOING BAD THINGS WITH GUNS.

>> BAD GUYS ARE DOING BAD THINGS WITH GUNS AND MACHETES AND CARS AND KNIVES AND FENTANYL -- >> TWO OFFICER KILLINGS WERE GUNS, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, BUT WHAT'S THE SOLUTION -- >> YEAH.

>> HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT OF CAUGHT WITH THE GUNS.

WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEY KILL SOMEONE TO SEND THE MESSAGE.

>> THE OTHER ISSUE THAT THIS BRINGS RENEWED ATTENTION TO IS MINNEAPOLIS POLICE FORCE AND THE TROUBLE THAT THEY'VE HAD RECRUITING AND RETAINING OFFICERS.

OFFICER MITCHELL WAS NEW TO THE FORCE, SOUNDS LIKE HE WAS REALLY WELL LIKED AND DOING QUITE WELL.

WHAT DO WE DO AS POLICYMAKERS TO HELP RETAIN, RECRUIT MORE POLICE OFFICERS?

LEGISLATURE PASSED SOME THINGS ON THIS, IS IT HELPING YET?

>> IF WE LOOK AT THE SURVEY THAT WAS RELEASED BY MPPOA ABOUT WHAT IS CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH RETENTION, IT'S KNOWING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE SUPPORTED AND BACKED BY YOUR ADMINISTRATION AND YOUR CIVILIAN CITY COUNCIL OR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS.

KNOWING THAT THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WORK FOR HAVE YOUR BACK IS THE BIGGEST THINGS THESE OFFICERS WANT.

♪ >> Eric: THURSDAY AFTERNOON IN A MANHATTAN COURTROOM A 12-MEMBER JURY FOUND FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP GUILTY ON ALL 34 COUNTS IN HIS SO-CALLED HUSH MONEY TRIAL.

TRUMP BECOMES THE FIRST FORMER PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY TO BE A CONVICTED FELON.

SENTENCING HAS BEEN SET FOR JULY 11TH, JUST FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION THAT IS SET TO NOMINATE THE FORMER PRESIDENT AS ITS CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THE TRIAL AND THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE WITH OUR ROTATING GROUP OF POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS.

AND WE'VE ROUNDED UP A DUO OF THEM TONIGHT.

DAVID SCHULTZ TEACHES POLITICS AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY AND IS AN ADJUNCT LAW PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA IS THE ACADEMIC HOME OF LARRY JACOBS.

HE HEADS UP THE CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE HUMPHREY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS.

HOW PRESIDENT CONTENT-SETTING IS THIS?

AND DOES THIS CHANGE THE LANDSCAPE?

>> WELL, THERE'S LEGAL AND POLITICAL ISSUES HERE.

IN TERMS OF LEGAL LANDSCAPE HERE, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT IS PRECEDENT-SETTING IN THE SENSE AS YOU POINTED OUT IN THE INTRO, THE FIRST EVER.

BUT I'M ALSO GOING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT HERE AND SAY AS PRECEDENT SETTING, IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT PRECEDENT HERE ALSO TOO, WHICH IS THE FACT THAT WHAT?

NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW AND EVERYBODY IS ACCOUNTABLE TO THE LAW.

AND THEY DID THE BEST JOB THEY COULD TO TAKE AN EX-PRESIDENT AND WEDGE HIM INTO A NORMAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS AND I THINK THEY DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB.

AND THE SECOND POINT I'M GOING TO MAKE I THINK LARRY IS GOING TO DO IT MORE HERE.

DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING POLITICALLY?

EH.

>> YEAH, I GREE ON THE POLITICAL POINT.

IF DONALD TRUMP WASN'T PUNISHED FOR JANUARY 6TH AND HE'S GOT THE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD, WHY IS THIS GOING TO TRANSFORM THINGS?

PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT SUCH POWERFUL PARTISAN LOYALTIES.

YOU CAN KIND OF START TO CLOSELY EXAMINE SOME OF THE DIFFERENT GROUPS OF VOTERS BUT WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT, AS DAVID SAID, A VERY SMALL OF SHIFTS.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS TRANSFORMATIVE, WHICH PROBABLY IS NOT GOOD NEWS FOR JOE BIDEN, BECAUSE WHAT WOULD CHANGE THE CAMPAIGN IF NOT THIS?

>> IF WE LOOK AT IT AT THIS POINT, FIRST OFF, WE'RE, WHAT, FIVE MONTHS AWAY FROM THE ELECTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, POLITICAL ETERNITY TOO, VOTERS ARE STILL GOING TO SAY, WHAT?

THE ECONOMY, INFLATION, MAYBE GAZAARE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MAYBE THE SOUTHERN BORDER IN TERMS OF BIGGER ISSUES.

BUT THE POLLING I'VE SEEN AT THIS POINT SAYS IT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT TRUMP WHO MIGHT MOVE AWAY FROM HIM BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO BIDEN.

THEY MIGHT STAY OUT OF THE ELECTION, MIGHT GO FOR RFK JUNIOR.

BIDEN'S NOT GOING TO GET MUCH OF A BUMP ON THIS.

>> Cathy: SAY, HELP ME OUT HERE.

WHAT'S THE RATIONALE FOR A TRUMP SUPPORTER TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT WHO'S NOW A CONVICTED FELON?

>> LOYALTY TO THE PARTY.

AND I THINK DONALD TRUMP IS VERY SKILLED AT MOBILIZING RESENTMENT AGAINST THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND USING IT TO HIS BENEFIT.

WHEN HE WAS STANDING OUTSIDE THE COURT YESTERDAY, WHAT WAS HE SAYING?

HE WAS SAYING I TOO HAVE BEEN A VICTIM.

I'M A POLITICAL PRISONER.

I TOO KNOW THE SENSE OF BEING ATTACKED BY THIS VICIOUS POLITICAL SYSTEM.

AND HE USES THAT TO KIND OF MOBILIZE HIS SUPPORT.

BUT THE MAIN THING IS WE'RE A PERIOD WHERE THAT PARTISAN LOYALTY, PARTICULARLY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT'S LIKE SUPERGLUE.

>> I'M GOING TO ADD ONE MORE THING.

I THINK IT'S PARTISAN, EVEN MORE SO FOR HIM IT'S PERSONAL.

IT'S PERSONAL LOYALTY.

I THINK EVEN MORE SO.

IT'S THAT CHARISMATIC AUTHORITY, YEAH.

>> Eric: SOME OF THE MORE CONSERVATIVE LEGAL WATCHERS SAID BASICALLY THE PROSECUTION REVIVED A MISDEMEANOR CASE, MORPHED IT INTO A FELONY CASE AND THE CASE WAS A REACH, IN ANY CASE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK >> I DON'T AGREE.

I DON'T AGREE AGREE.

FIRST OFF THE FACT THAT 12 JURORS AGREED WITH THEM ON THIS ONE DOESN'T SUGGEST TO ME IT'S A REACH AND SECOND, THERE ARE OTHER CASES IN NEW YORK WHERE THEY HAVE USED -- THEY'VE USED THE SAME STATUTE FOR PROSECUTION FOR BUSINESS FRAUD.

NOW, THE JUMP, THE LIFT FROM MISDEMEANOR FROM FELONY HASN'T BEEN ELECTION LAW BUT OTHER THINGS.

SO IT'S NOT REALLY THAT MUCH OF A REACH IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE.

I'VE SEEN A LOT, AGAIN, LOT F COMMENTATORS MAKE THAT ARGUMENT HERE.

NO, THIS IS PRETTY OUTINE IN A DISTRICT THAT DOES A LOT OF BUSINESS LITIGATION.

>> AND I THINK IT'S FAIR AMONG, YOU KNOW, THOUGHTFUL COMMENTATORS TO SAY THERE WERE OTHER CASES AMONG THE FOUR THAT HE'S FACING THAT WERE MORE SERIOUS.

I MEAN, RETAINING CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS.

BEING INVOLVED IN TRYING TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION.

I MEAN, THOSE WERE REALLY PROFOUND CASES BUT THE REALITY IS THEY'VE GOTTEN EITHER SIDETRACKED IN GEORGIA OR THEY'VE GOTTEN BOGGED DOWN IN THE LEGAL MANEUVERING THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON.

SO THIS IS THE CASE THAT MOVED, AND IT SO HAPPENS THAT IT'S IN MANHATTAN.

NOW, IN FAIRNESS THIS IS OBVIOUSLY DEMOCRATIC D.A.

>> Eric: WOULD A CHANGE OF VENUE HELP TRUMP?

>> I DON'T -- I THOUGHT SO INITIALLY BUT JUST HAVING SPENT WAY TOO MUCH TIME FOLLOWING THIS CASE, THERE WAS SUCH A VAST AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE.

YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT A NORMAL PERSON SITTING IN THAT COURTROOM THAT SAW JUST THE OLUMES OF WRITTEN DOCUMENTS AND THAT BACKED UP THE TESTIMONY OF INDIVIDUALS, THEY WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, REACHED A SIMILAR DECISION.

>> WHAT I THINK IS INTERESTING TO THINK ABOUT IT HERE, TWO PEOPLE, COHEN AND DAVID PECKER, PEOPLE WHO KNEW HIM VERY CLOSE, MANY WAYS CONFIDANTS IN HIM, WHO WERE VERY CRITICAL IN CORROBORATING ONE ANOTHER, CORROBORATING DOCUMENTATION.

WHAT I'M GETTING AT HERE IS THESE WERE NOT HOSTILE WITNESSES, THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE HIS CONFIDANTES FOR YEARS AND THESE WERE THE PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL TESTIMONY IN INDICTING HIM.

>> Cathy: SAY, WHAT MIGHT BE GROUNDS FOR APPEAL?

IS >> THERE'S A COUPLE POSSIBLE HERE.

ONE IS GOING TO BE THE JUDGE ISSUED THE RIGHT MOTIONS ON CERTAIN ORDERS.

SECOND, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO QUESTION OF CHANGE OF VENUE, BIASED JURORS PERHAPSIN TERMS OF THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE JURORS THAT WERE ALLOWED TO SIT THAT THE DEFENSE DIDN'T LIKE AND I THINK POSSIBLY BOTH JURY INSTRUCTIONS AS WELL AS THE PREJOURNAL -- LET'S SAY MORE THAN YOU NEEDED TESTIMONY FROM STORMY DANIELS LET'S SAY THE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.

WE'LL LET IT GO AS THAT.

>> BUT THAT'S GOING TO TEAM YEARS.

>> YEAH, THERE'S NO QUESTION, NO QUESTION HE RUNS FOR PRESIDENT AS A CONVICTED FELON, NO WAY THE APPELLATE DIVISION IS GOING TO OVERTURN OR HEAR THIS CASE BEFORE THE ELECTION.

>> Cathy: SO LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT -- WE HAVE A PERSON RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AS A CONVICTED FELON.

I MEAN, HELP US OUT ERE.

CAN HE VOTE?

I MEAN, -- AS A CONVICTED FELON, WHY IS HE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?

WHAT ARE THE RULES AROUND THIS?

>> THE RULES FOR RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT ARE VERY SIMPLE.

THEY'RE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

HE'S GOT TO BE 35 YEARS OLD, NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN, GOT TO BE RESIDING HERE IN 14 YEARS.

THAT'S IT.

>> THAT'S IT.

>> THAT'S IT AND NOW HE CAN RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

NOW, IS HE GOING TO BE PUNISHED BY BEING CONVICTED BY VOTERS?

AND I THINK PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY FOLLOWING THIS SAYS, YEAH, THAT WILL BE THE.

MAT TEST.

WE HAVE A COUNTRY OF LAWS AND WE LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT OUR LAWS ARE OUR NORMS DON'T JUST PUT THIS IN THE HANDS OF VOTERS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

BUT THIS WILL BE ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE VOTERS ARE GOING TO DECIDE IT.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE MUCH OF AN IMPACT.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE KEY FINDINGS FROM A LOT OF RESEARCH IS VOTERS TEND TO RESPOND TO EVENTS JUST BEFORE ELECTION DAY.

IT'S RECENT, IT'S IN THEIR FOREFRONT OF THEIR MIND.

THIS IS FIVE MONTHS AWAY.

>> Cathy: E'LL BE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT COME ELECTION DAY.

>> Eric: THE DONATION SITE FROM REPUBLICANS MELTED DOWN, THERE WERE SO MANY SMALL DONATIONS, 35 MILLION SINCE THE VERDICT WAS ANNOUNCED.

THIS SEEMS TO HAVE STRUCK A NERVE WITH HIS BASE ANYWAY.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DEMOCRATS WERE HOPING IS FOR A CONVICTION, DON'T WISH FOR CERTAIN THINGS BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO MOTIVATE HIS BASE LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW.

AGAIN, 35 MILLION IS A GOOD INDICATION.

THE ENTHUSIASM AMONG TRUMP'S BASE SO MUCH DWARFS BIDEN THAT BIDEN NEEDS SOMETHING TO GET THAT ENTHUSIASM.

IT'S NOT THERE.

>> BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY FOR TRUMP THE BIG PROBLEM FOR HIM IS HE CAN'T JUST RUN ON THOSE MOTIVATED VOTERS.

HE NEEDS TO BRING IN INDEPENDENTS AND OTHER VOTERS AND WHEN YOU HAVE CARL ROVE SAYING THERE'S A PROBLEM HERE, I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE'S LOOKING AT.

BECAUSE THERE IS DATA SHOWING THAT THE INDEPENDENT VOTERS, DISENGAGED VOTERS, THEY HAVE QUESTIONS AND SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE RELATED TO VOTING FOR A FELON.

>> NOT TO SOUND LIKE A BROKEN RECORD, YOU'VE HEARD ME SAY IT BEFORE, ABOUT 150,000 VOTERS IN SIX DAYS, JUST GOING TO MOVE A MICRO ROTATION.

>> Eric: GLAD OUR ROTATION BROUGHT YOU TO FELLAS TO US TONIGHT.

THANKS SO MUCH.

♪ >> Dominic: FOR TONIGHT’S MONOLOGUE, I WANT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE VERBAL RORSCHACH TEST.

READY?

HERE WE GO.

TONIGHT’S MONOLOGUE IS ABOUT AN EVENT THAT TOOK PLACE THIS WEEK ON THE EAST COAST.

IT’S SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER BEFORE HAPPENED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

IT GOT A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION REALLY WORKED UP.

AND IT INCLUDES A FAIR AMOUNT OF UNCERTAINTY GOING FORWARD.

WHAT AM I TALKING ABOUT?

IS IT THE TRIAL OF DONALD TRUMP, WHO BECAME THE FIRST U.S. PRESIDENT TO BE CONVICTED OF A FELONY, AND THE INEVITABLE APPEALS PROCESS THAT WILL FOLLOW?

OR IS IT THE TRIUMPH OF MINNESOTA’S PROFESSIONAL WOMEN’S HOCKEY TEAM, WHICH WON THE LEAGUE’S FIRST-EVER CHAMPIONSHIP BUT STILL DOESN’T HAVE A NAME?

NOW, AS WITH A RORSCHACH BLOT, THE ANSWER IS BOTH... AND NEITHER.

BUT I WOULD INVITE YOU TO INTERROGATE YOUR REACTION TO THE FIRST 30 SECONDS OF TONIGHT’S MONOLOGUE.

DID YOU FEEL YOUR PULSE OR YOUR IRE RISE?

WERE YOU DISAPPOINTED, MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE ANGRY, WHEN I WASN’T TALKING ABOUT THE THING YOU THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT?

OR WERE YOU MAYBE STRUCK BY THE SIMILAR WORDS AND THE SIMILAR WAYS IN WHICH WE RESPOND TO SPORTS AND POLITICS?

I’M KIND OF HOPING IT’S THAT LAST THING.

SPORTS FANATICS AND POLITICAL JUNKIES TEND TO BE JOINED BY AN UNYIELDING PERCEPTION OF THE LIFE-AND-DEATHNESS OF IT ALL.

AND BY A SENSE OF CERTAINTY THAT ISN’T ALWAYS BACKED UP BY REALITY.

AND BY THE HABIT OF MAKING INDIVIDUAL WINS AND LOSSES OUT TO BE BIGGER THAN THEY ARE.

YOUR ARMCHAIR-PSYCHOLOGICAL LESSON FOR THE DAY?

RECOGNIZING THESE THINGS ABOUT OURSELVES ISN’T ALWAYS EASY.

BUT IT’S PROBABLY A LOT MORE HEALTHY.

♪ >> Cathy: GUN VIOLENCE HAS SURPASSED CAR ACCIDENTS AS THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR AMERICANS UNDER 24.

THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT EXIST IN THOSE DEATHS ARE OFTEN CITED, BUT MAINLY FOCUS ON THE CRISIS IN URBAN AREAS.

A RECENT STUDY PUBLISHED IN THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE SHOWS THE GREATEST INCREASE IN GUN DEATHS IS IN RURAL BLACK YOUTH.

UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA GRAD STUDENT ALLISON LIND IS THE LEAD AUTHOR OF THE STUDY CONGRATULATIONS AND WELCOME TO "ALMANAC."

>> THANK YOU, CATHY, THANK YOU, ERIC, FOR HAVING ME.

>> ABSOLUTELY, THAT'S A BIG DEAL TO BE IN THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE FOR GOODNESS SAKES.

SO YOU'RE A PEDIATRIC NURSE?

>> I AM, YEAH.

>> Cathy: HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN STUDYING SOMETHING LIKE THIS >> YES, FIREARMS AS YOU MENTIONED BECAME THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS IN 2020 AND I WORKED IN ADOLESCENT HEALTH AND WAS SEEING MORE YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING LUCKILY NOT DEATH BUT FIREARM INJURIES, AND SO WHEN THIS CAME OUT THAT FIREARMS ARE THE LEADING CAUSE, WANTED TO LOOK MORE INTO IT AND LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> Eric: THIS REALLY SHATTERS WHAT I THINK MIGHT BE THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM OR STEREOTYPING.

>> YEAH, HISTORICALLY WE THINK OF GUNS KILLING BLACK URBAN YOUTH BY HOMICIDES AND THEN IN RURAL SETTINGS WE TEND TO THINK OF WHITE AND AMERICAN INDIAN, ALASKAN NATIVE YOUTH BY FIREARM SUICIDES.

BLACK RURAL YOUTH HAVE NEVER REALLY BEEN PART OF THE NARRATIVE.

SO WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THE DATA JUST SAW THIS HUGE INCREASE IN BLACK RURAL YOUTH, THEIR DEATH RATES FROM FIREARMS USED TO BE ON PAR WITH WHITE RURAL YOUTH AND THEN IN THE PAST DECADE ARE NOW ON PAR WITH BLACK URBAN YOUTH.

SO INCREASED FOUR-FOLD IN THE PAST DECADE.

>> Cathy: AND ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DEATH BY SUICIDE?

>> YEP, AND SO WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IS CAUSING THESE DEATHS AND IT'S ACTUALLY HOMICIDE.

86% WERE HOMICIDES IN 2022.

>> Cathy: IN RURAL AREAS.

>> Eric: DID THE PANDEMIC HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS?

DID IT CHANGE THE NUMBERS?

>> SO THAT ACCELERATED THE TREND, BUT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON LONG BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

IN 2013 IT REALLY STARTED.

>> Cathy: NATIONWIDE NUMBERS?

>> NATIONWIDE NUMBERS.

>> Cathy: ANY MINNESOTA NUMBERS YOU LOOKED AT AT ALL?

>> NO, BECAUSE OF DATA SUPPRESSION WE CAN'T GET MINNESOTA NUMBERS.

BUT MOST OF THE DEATHS ARE IN -- OF BLACK RURAL YOUTH ARE IN THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE MAJORITY OF BLACK RURAL YOUTH LIVE IN THE SOUTH, SO OUR NEXT STEPS ARE REALLY LEARNING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, WHERE THESE DEATHS ARE OCCURRING AND WHAT'S LEADING TO THEM.

>> Cathy: ANY THEORIES AT ALL?

I KNOW YOU'RE DOING A DISSERTATION SO YOU CAN'T PROBABLY THEORIZE, BUT ANY KERNELS OF KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU'VE COME ACROSS THAT YOU MIGHT THINK, OH, THAT COULD BE?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS WE WANT TO LOOK INTO IT, LIKE HOW ARE THESE RURAL PLACES CHANGES?

IS THIS AN ISSUE OF POPULATION DEMOGRAPHICS CHANGING WITH REGARDS TO MORE PEOPLE OF LATE ADOLESCENCE, YOUNG ADULTHOOD LIVING IN RURAL AREAS?

OR IS THERE MIGRATION INTO AND OUT OF RURAL AREAS?

LIKE DISADVANTAGED, ARE THESE AREAS BECOMING MORE DISADVANTAGED OR POOR?

AND THEN GUNS, GUNS HAVE INCREASED A LOT.

ABOUT 5 MILLION GUNS MANUFACTURED IN THE UNITED STATES IN 2009, AND THEN BY 2013 WAS UP TO ABOUT 11 MILLION.

>> Eric: EGARDLESS OF SKIN COLOR, YOUNG ADULTS ARE THE INTENSE GROUP AS FAR AS THESE NUMBERED ARE CONCERNED, MOST AFFECTED GROUP?

>> WITH GUN DEATHS OVERALL, USUALLY LIKE YOUNG ADULTHOOD.

BUT BLACK YOUTH ARE BY FAR DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED.

AND NOW IT'S NOT JUST BLACK URBAN YOUTH BUT RURAL TOO.

>> Eric: CATHY ASKED ABOUT WHAT ARE SOME THEORIES.

HOW WILL YOU GO ABOUT NOW TRYING TO COME UP WITH THE WHY THIS IS HAPPENING?

ARE THERE NUMBERS TO STUDY THAT?

>> YEAH, WHAT I WAS USING WAS JUST PUBLICLY AVAILABLE DATA AND I'VE GOTTEN RESTRICTED DATA WHICH LINKS EACH DEATH TO A COUNTY OF RESIDENCE, AND THEN LOOKING AT COUNTY CHARACTERISTICS F WHAT THESE PLACES ARE, WHERE THEY ARE, AND HOW HAVE THEY CHANGED OVER TIME.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU GOT A GRADUATE ASSISTANT TO HELP YOU WITH ALL THIS DATA?

>> THAT'S ME.

>> Eric: YOU'RE IT?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Cathy: DOING IT ON YOUR OWN.

>> Eric: THIS IS WRITTEN UP IN MINNPOST, ISN'T IT?

>> YEAH YEAH, JUST GOT WRITTEN UP IN MINNPOST.

>> Cathy: AND OF COURSE HAVING IT N NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE IS PRETTY BIG TOO.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF WORK BUT ONCE YOU GET IT DONE WHAT ARE YOU HOPING MIGHT COME IN FROM SOME OF THESE FINDINGS?

POLICY CHANGES?

PUBLIC HEALTH CHANGES?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH EPIDEMIC, FIREARMS ARE, AND LEARNING WHY THIS IS HAPPENING I THINK I THINK LEARNING WHY IT'S HAPPENING AND THEN WHAT POLICY SOLUTIONS WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS IT.

>> Cathy: HOW FAR AWAY ARE YOU FROM FINISHING THIS?

>> TWO YEARS, SO.

>> Cathy: OKAY, THERE'S A LITTLE WAY TO GO.

>> YEAH, I WILL KEEP YOU POSTED.

>> Cathy: CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANKS.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Eric: YOU BET, YOU BET.

♪ >> AND NOW THE MOMENT WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR, AS WE UNVEIL OUR NEW LOOK AND OUR BRAND NEW HOME!

[ DRAMATIC MUSIC ] EVERYTHING LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE MOP AND GLOVER THEY SLOPPED ON THE FLOOR TO MAKE IT LOOK BETTER.

♪ ♪ >> Eric: YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER THAT NIGHT.

30 YEARS LATER WE'RE STILL IN THE SAME STUDIO B BUT THE SET HAS CHANGED SEVERAL TIMES.

MOVING ON, MAY IS MENTAL HEALTH AWARENESS MONTH.

IT ALSO MARKS THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE HAZELDEN BETTY FORD FOUNDATION, ORIGINALLY KNOWN AS JUST HAZELDEN, THE MINNESOTA BASED NON-PROFIT IS A NATIONAL LEADER IN TREATING ADDICTION AND MENTAL HEALTH.

DR. JOSEPH LEE HAS BEEN LEADING HAZELDEN BETTY FORD FOR NEARLY THREE YEARS.

DOCTOR, WELCOME BACK.

VERY EXPANSIVE QUESTION.

WHAT'S CHANGED IN YOUR FIELD SINCE 1949?

>> OH, MAN, SO MUCH.

ERIC AND CATHY, IF WE GO BACK TO 194D, AT THAT TIME, UNIVERSALLY ADDICTION WAS SEEN AS A MORAL FAILING.

THERE WASN'T A PLACE FOR IT IN MAINSTREAM SOCIETY OR MAINSTREAM MEDICINE.

AND A GROUP OF PIONEERS BOUGHT A FARM FROM THE POWER FAMILY OF MARS AND POWER FAME AND THE FARM WAS CALLED HAZEL'S DEN AFTER ONE OF THE OWNERS AND IT BECAME OUR NAMESAKE.

A LOT HAS CHANGED IN 75 YEARS TO ALMOST NO TREATMENT AND ACCEPTANCE TO REALLY BEING STANDARD BEARERS OF TREATMENT.

AND PEOPLE THAT IN OUR CORE WE BELIEVE WE ARE A SOCIAL REFORM MOVEMENT.

CHANGING HEARTS, BUILDING COMMUNITIES, BUILDING HOPE.

>> Cathy: SO NOW THAT THIS ADDICTION'S BEEN KIND OF RECLASSIFIED FROM BEING A SOCIAL CONDITION TO MORE OF A MEDICAL ONE, THAT REDUCES SIGM SIGMA, DOESN'T IT?

>> YEAH, YEAH, THERE'S STILL A LONG WAYS TO GO FIGHTING STIGMA, ISSUES OF PARITY IN POLICY AND WHATNOT.

BUT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER TO SET THE STAGE TO HAVE PEOPLE ACCEPT ADDITION AS A TREATABLE MEDICAL CONDITION.

IN FACT WE PUBLISH OUTCOMES EVERY YEAR SCIENTIFICALLY AND PEOPLE WITH ADDICTION ACTUALLY HAVE A BETTER PROGNOSIS THAN OTHER CHRONIC ILLNESSES LIKE DIABETES OR HEART DISEASE IF THEY GET HELP.

>> Eric: CAN YOU GIVE US SOME DEPTH ON THE FENTANYL EPIDEMIC?

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S REALLY -- IS EXPLODING TOO STRONG A WORD, OR?

>> WELL, THERE'S UPS AND DOWNS IN IT.

FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS WE'VE HAD EXPLOSIVE OVERDOSE INCREASES.

IN THE PAST YEAR WE'VE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A DIP.

I DON'T THINK WE'D CALL THAT A WIN YET.

AND THERE'S NEW DRUGS COMING ON, NOW PEOPLE ARE USING ANIMAL TRANQUILIZERS AND SEDATIVES AND MIXING IT INTO FENTANYL.

AND AS YOU KNOW I WORKED WITH YOUNG PEOPLE FOR A LONG TIME.

>> Eric: CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, YEAH.

>> WE HAVE A LONG WAYS TO GO.

LEARNING HOW TO BETTER ADDRESS THIS AS A SOCIETY.

POLICIES HAVE CHANGED, STATES HAVE TRIED DIFFERENT METHODS TO CONTROL IT, SOME SUCCESSES, SOME FAILURES BUT WE'RE LEARNING.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S ALSO CHANGED OF COURSE IS THAT ADDICTION'S BEING TREATED WITH MEDICATIONS WHICH WASN'T DONE IN THE PAST, RIGHT?

HOW MUCH OF A GAME-CHANGER IS THAT?

>> IT'S A TREMENDOUS GAME-CHANGER AND IT'S TAKEN A LONG TIME TO GAIN ACCEPTANCE.

PART OF IT HISTORICALLY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN RECOVERY WERE REJECTED FROM MEDICINE.

BUT WE'VE CREATED A BRIDGE AND SO AT HAZELDEN BETTY FORD WE BELIEVE THE GOLD STANDARD FOR OPIOID ADDICTIONS IS MEDICATIONS AND THERAPY.

YOU CAN USE ALL THE TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL TO GIVE PEOPLE THEIR LIVES BACK.

>> Eric: HOW DO YOU GET AT PEOPLE THAT NEED HELP AND MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT IT OR THINKS IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE?

WHAT ABOUT THAT OUTREACH COMPONENT?

>> YEAH, WELL, ACCESS IT IS A CHRONIC ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE ADDICTION TREATMENT IS SIMPLY UNDER-RESOURCED AND SO WHILE IT'S RECOGNIZED AS A DISEASE, IF YOU GO TO ANY FANCY HOSPITAL, THE ADDICTION CENTERS, THE MENTAL HEALTH CENTERS, THEY'RE USUALLY IN THE BACK ANNEX, NOT THE FANCY PARTS OF THE HOSPITAL AS YOU WILL.

SO AS A MATTER OF RESOURCES, ACCESS IS REVERY CHALLENGING.

IN TERMS OF THE INDIVIDUAL AMBIVALENCE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT GETTING TREATMENT, THERE ARE MANY THERAPIES THAT WE EXERCISE LIKE MOTIVATIONAL INTERVIEWING, YOU'VE HEARD MECFS PHRASES LIKE "MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY'RE AT" SO WHATEVER THE JOURNEY IS, NO WRONG DOOR, SURROUNDING THEM WITH LOVING FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES, AND IT WORKS.

>> Cathy: ISSUIC MENTIONED FENTANYL, OBVIOUSLY THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE BEEN ON THE FRONTLINE WITH, RIGHT?

BUT I'M WONDERING WITH MORE STATES LEGALIZING CANNABIS FOR RECREATIONAL USE ARE YOU EXPECTING TO RUN INTO ISSUES SAY WITH FOLKS WHO ARE YOUNGER WHO MIGHT BE SEEKING TREATMENT IN THE FUTURE IN IS >> YEAH, THE DIFFERENT PREDOMINANT DRUGS THAT CHANGE WITH GENERATIONS, THEY'LL ALWAYS CHANGE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE COUNTRY DUE TO THE ADOPTION OF MORE LIBERAL POLICIES REGARDING MARIJUANA IN PARTICULAR, I THINK THE ADVENT OF THESE POLICY CHANGES WERE IN THE RIGHT SPIRIT.

TRYING TO REVERSE SOME OF MAYBE THE INJUSTICES OF THE WAR ON DRUGS, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT THE REAL WINNERS ONZ THAT POLICY CHANGERS HAVE BEEN COMMERCIAL ENTITIES WHO ARE PEDDLING CANNABIS HAS ALCOHOL TO PEOPLE WHO RE ALREADY CONSUMING TOO MUCH.

AND THAT'S BEARING OUT AND THAT WILL AFFECT YOUNG PEOPLE.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE THE SAME AS THE OPIOID CRISIS WE'RE FACING NOW, BUT IT'S A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT LETTING INDUSTRIES AND ECONOMIES DICTATE THE CONSUMPTION OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE.

>> Cathy: YOU MENTIONED OUTCOMES.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR SUCCESS RATE, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE?

CAN YOU QUANTIFY SUCCESS RATES?

>> YEAH, ACTUALLY THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF RESEARCH DONE.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE TRAGIC THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN ADDICTION.

OVERDOSES HAPPEN AND ALL OF THAT.

AND IT CAN TAKE MANY TRIES FOR A PERSON TO GET A YEAR OF SOBRIETY TOGETHER OR A YEAR OF RECOVERY TOGETHER.

BUT IF YOU LOOK LONG-TERM THE PROGNOSIS IS ACTUALLY QUITE FAVORABLE AND PEOPLE JUST NEED TO CONTINUE TO ENGAGE.

AND SO A LOT OF STIGMA SAYS A PERSON ENTERED OUTPATIENT THERAPY OR RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT AND MAYBE THEY RETURNED TO SE AND THEY SAY THAT TREATMENT FAILED.

WELL, NOT SO.

WE WOULDN'T SAY THAT FOR A PERSON TRYING TO GET THEIR BLOOD SUGAR UNDER CONTROL AND THEY COULDN'T.

IT IT'S NOT A FAILURE, IT'S AN EPISODE AND YOU STAY ENGAGED AND WHEN YOU O THAT LONGITUDINALLY OVER YEARS YOU HAVE MORE ND MORE SUCCESS.

>> Eric: DIVERSITY, EQUITY, HOW ARE YOU DOING ON THAT SCORE?

I'VE GOT 30 SECONDS FOR YOU TO DO IT, SORRY.

>> THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR MISSION.

HISTORICALLY WE KNOW WE NEED TO BROADEN OUR BANNER TO SERVICE MORE PEOPLE.

OUR BOARD IS MORE DIVERSE, OUR LEADERS ARE MORE DIVERSE AND WE'RE PUTTING OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS.

WE'VE CREATED PROGRAMS IN OUR GRADUATE SCHOOL TO START A PAADUATE SCHOOL TO START A PATHUATE SCHOOL TO START A PATHWATE SCHOOL TO START A PATHWAY SCHOOL TO START A PATHWAY FOCHOOL TO START A PATHWAY FOR OOL TO START A PATHWAY FOR PEL TO START A PATHWAY FOR PEOPTO START A PATHWAY FOR PEOPLE START A PATHWAY FOR PEOPLE WTART A PATHWAY FOR PEOPLE WHORT A PATHWAY FOR PEOPLE WHO H A PATHWAY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MARGINALIZED SO THEY CAN BECOME COUNSELORS AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MANY COMMUNITIES.

>> Cathy: YOUR BIG GALA IS COMING UP THIS FALL WITH ROB LOWE YOU MENTIONED.

>> SEPTEMBER 13TH, ROB LOWE WHO'S A BIG RECOVERY ADVOCATE WILL BE EMCEEING.

AND A MESSAGE OF GRATITUDE TO MINNESOTA OUR SOCIAL REFORM MOVEMENT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE STATE AND MANY YOU'RE PARTNERS.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ >> I HAVE AN IDEA I'D LIKE TO PITCH IT ND IT STARTS WITH THIS BUCKET.

YOU SEE, THIS BUCKET IS A ROCK COLLECTION.

I JUST DIDN'T COLLECT IT MYSELF.

I DISCOVERED IT AT A GARAGE SALE WHERE IT WASN'T EVEN TECHNICALLY FOR SALE, THEY JUST SAID I COULD HAVE IT.

A COUPLE YEARS LATER I DECIDED THAT BRINGING THE ROCKS HOME WITH ME WAS A DUMB IDEA AND I EMPTIED THE ENTIRE COLLECTION ON MY PARENTS' GRAVEL DRIVEWAY.

HERE'S ANOTHER ROCK COLLECTION.

THIS ONE IS MINE, I STARTED IT WHEN I WAS A CHILD.

IT REPRESENTS ALL 50 UNITED STATES AND AT LEAST 12 FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

I CONSIDER IT A RESPECTABLE COLLECTION BUT I'M GUESSING IT TOO WILL SOMEDAY END UP IN MY PARENTS' DRIVEWAY.

NOW, HERE'S THE KEY DETAIL.

ROCK COLLECTIONS ARE NOT UNCOMMON.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE YOURSELF, I'M 100% CERTAIN YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO DOES.

AND N THEIR OWN WAY ROCK COLLECTIONS ARE AMAZING.

THEY REPRESENT A MULTI-GENERATIONAL, CROSS-CULTURAL, GLOBE-SPANNING SELECTION EXPERIMENT THAT CAPTURES THE UNIQUE WAY THE HUMAN BRAIN PERCEIVES BEAUTY IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD.

IN MY OPINION ANY EFFORT OF THIS MAGNITUDE DESERVES A BETTER FINAL RESTING PLACE THAN SOMEBODY'S GRAVEL DRIVEWAY.

SO HERE'S MY PITCH.

LET'S DESIGNATE A SINGLE LOCATION, A CENTRAL REPOSITORY FOR ALL THE ROCK COLLECTIONS OF THE WORLD.

I'D HUMBLY OFFER ONE OF THE MANY LAKEFRONTS RIGHT HERE IN MINNESOTA.

WHENEVER WE'RE DONE WITH A ROCK COLLECTION, LET'S DEPOSIT IT HERE.

BUCKET BY BUCKET, YEAR BY YEAR WE LITERALLY BE ASSEMBLING ONE OF THE PLANET'S MOST INSPIRING SCENIC WONDERS.

FUTURE GENERATIONS COULD WANDER THE BEACH COLLECTING NOT THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STONES BUT THE LEAST BEAUTIFUL, TAKING THEM HOME AS SOUVENIRS AND IN THE SAME WAY BOILING TREE SAP MAKES FOR SWEETER MAPLE SYRUP THE OVERALL VISUAL VALUE BEACH WOULD ONLY BE INCREASED.

I'M PRETTY ENAMORED WITH THIS IDEA.

IT WOULD BE A NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM, EXERCISE OPPORTUNITY TOURIST ATTRACTION ALL ROLLED INTO ONE.

IT WOULDN'T EVEN TAKE ADDITIONAL WORK.

IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE ALREADY DOING.

THAT'S MY PITCH.

LET'S PICK A LOCATION PREFERABLY RIGHT HERE IN MINNESOTA AND HELP THE ROCK COLLECTIONS OF THE WORLD UNITE.

♪ >> Eric: NATIONAL MEDIA AGAIN FEATURED MINNESOTA GOVERNOR TIM WALZ TO TALK ABOUT THE 2024 ELECTION THIS WEEK.

MARY LAHAMMER IS BACK TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT ON WHAT A HIGHER PROFILE NATIONALLY COULD MEAN FOR THIS GOVERNOR.

>> GOVERNOR TIM WALZ, WELCOME.

WITH YOUR NATIONAL PROFILE I KIND OF WANTED TO DIG IN A LITTLE BIT.

>> THE WASHINGTON POST CALLED MINNESOTA GOVERNOR TIM WALZ A KEY PLAYER IN A LIVE ELECTION EVENT.

>> WOULD YOU CONSIDER RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT YOURSELF?

>> IT JUST SEEMS A BIT OVERWHELMING TO THINK ABOUT.

WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU THEY WANT TO BE THE PRESIDENT AND WHATEVER THAT ALWAYS KIND OF SCARES ME.

>> THANKS FOR SITTING DOWN WITH NEWS WEEK MAGAZINE.

>> YOU CAN WIN AN ELECTION BY BURNING THE HOUSE DOWN BUT CAN YOU GOVERN?

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEA ME CAMPAIGN ON CALLING SOMEONE A NAME BUT I'M GOING TO CALL THEM OUT HAT THEY'RE AGAINST DEMOCRACY.

>> WELL, I REMEMBER SOME OF THESE THINGS FROM MY PAST LIFE.

AND I'VE NEVER MET A GOVERNOR WHO DIDN'T IN THE BACK OF THEIR MIND THINK ABOUT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

PRETTY MUCH ANY GOVERNOR WHO DOES THAT JOB AT LEAST INTO A SECOND TERM STARTS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I'M PRETTY GOOD AT RUNNING MY TATE.

I WONDER IF I COULD DO THE NEXT THING.

>> MCCLUNG MANAGED COMMUNICATIONS FOR THE LAST MINNESOTA GOVERNOR WE'VE SEEN DO THIS MUCH NATIONAL MEDIA.

LOCAL PRESS, NATIONAL PRESS, HOW DO YOU LEAVE THAT WITHOUT HACKING OFF TOO MUCH AND SAYING, OH, HE'S FORGETTING ABOUT HIS HOME STATE BUT ALSO DO THE NATIONAL?

WHAT'S THAT BALANCE?

>> IT'S ALMOST AN IMPOSSIBLE BALANCE.

BY DEFAULT WHEN YOU'RE DOING THOSE THINGS YOU GET CONSUMED BY THE WASHINGTON, D.C., NEW YORK CITY BASED COMMITTEA.

AND THE LOCAL MEDIA FOLLOWING YOU SINCE YOU WERE A CUB, MEMBER OF CONGRESS, THEY THINK, OH, NOW YOU'D RATHER TALK TO THESE GUYS.

IT IS A REALLY TOUGH BALANCING ACT.

>> THAT'S THE WORRY.

THAT PICTURE WENT EVERYWHERE.

>> IT'S ON YOUTUBE.

>> IT GOT ON YOUTUBE, DIDN'T IT?

>> SO THERE ARE SOME CONSISTENT SIGNS TO LOOK OUT FOR WHEN A GOVERNOR IS INCREASING THEIR NATIONAL PRO.

HERE'S A FEW OF THOSE SIGNALS.

>> WE AT THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION ARE REMINDING PEOPLE IN MINNESOTA BY THE END OF THIS YEAR I WILL HAVE APPOINTED FOUR OF THE SEVEN SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, PEOPLE WHO WILL WORK WITH THE RULE OF LAW.

>> A SIGN?

BECOME HEAD OF ONE OF THE NATIONAL OVERNORS ASSOCIATIONS.

>> WHEN II WORKED FOR GOVERNOR PAWLENTY HE WAS VICE CHAIR AND THEN CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATIONS.

THAT TENDED TO BE A REAL HIGH PROFILE POSITION.

BILL CLINTON FOR EXAMPLE HAD BEEN THE CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION BEFORE HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT.

FOR GOVERNOR WALZ HE'S HEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION, THAT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN A REALLY IMPORTANT PLACE FOR GOVERNORS TO BUILD UP POLITICAL CHOPS.

>> THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LAST TIME THEY FILED HAD $52 OUT HERE AND THERE'S NO OFFICES FOR TRUMP.

>> NEXT, DO LOTS OF NATIONAL NEWS.

>> ONCE YOU BECOME A REGULAR BOOKERS ON CABLE NETWORKS SEE THAT AND THINK, OH, THIS GUY'S GOT AN INTERESTING ANGLE OR SOMETHING TO SAY.

IT REALLY BUILDS ON ITS OWN AT THAT POINT.

>> 12-YEAR MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS, SERVED ON ARMED SERVICES.

LIVED AS A YOUNG MAN IN ASIA AND A GLOBAL GEOGRAPHY TEACHER.

GLOBAL ISSUES MATTER EEPLY TO ME.

>> GOVERNORS HAVE TO PROVE THEIR INTERNATIONAL EXPERIENCE.

>> THAT CAN BE AN AREA OF WEAKNESS FOR GOVERNORS, THEY'RE VERY DOMESTICALLY FOCUSED OBVIOUSLY.

WHEN GOVERNORS START TO LOOK AT THE NATIONAL STAGE YOU SEE THEM START TO TALK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE THEY'VE HAD -- >> I THINK THE PRESIDENT'S DOING ALL HE CAN AND THIS IS WHERE FOLKS LIKE MYSELF CAN HELP.

MINNESOTA HAS HISTORICALLY LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATES.

>> FINALLY, BECOME A SURROGATE AND ADVOCATE FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

>> HOW ABOUT BEING A SURROGATE FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE?

>> BIG-TIME AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE KEY ROLES THAT A GOVERNOR CAN KIND THEMSELVES IN OTHER STATES SPEAKING OUT IN SUPPORT OF YOUR PARTY'S NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT.

FOR SURE GOVERNOR PAWLENTY FOR SURE GOVERNOR PAWLEN PAW ATA DID SOME OF THAT BACK IN THE DAY AND NOW YOU SEE GOVERNOR WALZ GOING TO OTHER STATES AND TALKING ON BEHALF OF PRESIDENT BIDEN.

BUT IT PUTS YOU IN STATES LIKE IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE.

>> FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS.

>> AND NOW YOU'RE IN SOUTH CAROLINA AND NEVADA, THESE STATES THAT ARE EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS.

>> NOMINEE JOHN MCCAIN HAD PAWLENTY COUNTER OBAMA MAKING HISTORY AT THE NATIONAL CONVENTION WHILE HE MADE A CASE FOR HIMSELF.

>> I HAVE BEEN GOVERNOR FOR SIX YEARS, COMMANDER IN CHIEF FOR MINNESOTA NATIONAL GUARD FOR SIX YEARS AND BEFORE THAT LEADER OF THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE.

>> PAWLENTY WAS PASSED OVER FOR ALASKA GOVERNOR SARAH PALIN.

>> WILL YOU TAKE A POSITION IN THE CABINET OF A BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IF HE OFFERS IT TO YOU?

>> A DEAR FRIEND OF MINE ALWAYS TOLD ME DON'T EVER TURN DOWN A JOB YOU HAVEN'T BEEN OFFERED.

MY GOAL AS A 24-YEAR VETERAN, I'LL SERVE WHERE I'M ASKED TO, I BELIEVE IN SERVANT LEADERSHIP.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT GOVERNOR WALZ'S OPPORTUNITIES ONE THAT POPS UP IS IS SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS.

HE HAS THAT EXPERIENCE AS A GUARD MEMBER, HIGH RANKING POSITION IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.

WHEN HE WAS IN CONGRESS I HINK ONE OF THE ONLY OFFICERS ENLISTED IN CONGRESS.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE MOST PROBABLE THING RIGHT NOW?

>> PROBABLY.

♪ ♪ >> Cathy: TONIGHT WE HAVE FILLED THE COUCH WITH NEARLY 50 YEARS OF LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE.

I KNOW, AMAZING, ISN'T IT?

THIS ESTEEMED GROUP OF RETIRING LAWMAKERS IS HERE TO LOOK BACK, SHARE SOME STORIES AND PERHAPS OFFER A WORD OF WISDOM TO COLLEAGUES THEY ARE LEAVING BEHIND.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST TONIGHT, REP. PAT GAROFALO FROM FARMINGTON HAS BEEN IN THE HOUSE FOR TWO DECADES.

REP. ANNE NEU BRINDLEY HAILS FROM NORTH BRANCH AND IS IN HER FOURTH TERM.

DEMOCRATS WITH US TONIGHT, REP. JAMIE BECKER-FINN OF ROSEVILLE ALSO FINISHING HER FOURTH TERM.

ROUNDING OUT THE GROUP, MINNEAPOLIS REP. FRANK HORNSTEIN, WHOSE YEARS OF LEGISLATIVE SERVICE CLOCKS IN AT 22.

WELCOME, ONE AND ALL.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

YOU LOOK VERY RESTED AND REFRESHED I HAVE TO SAY.

>> FEELING GOOD.

>> NOW, WE ALL WATCHED YOUR FAREWELL SPEECHES, EXCEPT REPRESENTATIVE GAROFALO, YOU DID NOT DO A FAREWELL SPEECH.

WE WERE SHOCKED.

WE WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

>> WELL, I TOLD YOU GUYS BEFORE IF SPORTS GAMBLING DIDN'T PASS THEN I WAS GOING TO RUN FOR REELECTION SO WHY WOULD I GIVE A REQUIREMENT SPEECH?

I'M FULL OF IT, I'M NOT RUNNING AGAIN.

>> Cathy: OKAY, GOOD, I WAS GOING TO SAY.

HAD YOU TAKEN THE MIC, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE SAID?

>> I WOULD HAVE SAID IN REAL LIFE WE GO OUT AND GO TO NEW PLACES AND ATTEMPT NEW EXPERIENCES, TRY NEW FOODS TO HAVE NEW EXPERIENCES.

LEGISLATORS NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF INTERACTING WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, NOT TO BE TRANSACTIONAL OR HELP PASS THINGS, BUT YOU WILL HAVE SO MUCH MORE OF A RICHER AND DEEPER LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE.

IF YOU'RE IN BERLIN AND SHARE A BEER WITH REPRESENTATIVE FRANK HORNSTEIN OR TOUR THE WELLSTONE PLANE CRASH SITE WITH FORMER REPRESENTATIVES LAUREN SOLBERG AND DENISE DIETRICH WHO AND DENISE DIETRICH W DEET.

THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN AS MUCH AS IT USED TO.

>> Eric: YOU TALKED ABOUT A QUOTE YOU HEARD FROM GENE WAGENIUS, OU GOT TO SAY IT 100 TIMES BEFORE SOMEBODY LISTENS.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> FOR ME TOO I'M THE ONLY ONE HERE ON THE COUCH HO'S A MEMBER OF THE POCI CAUCUS AND QUEER CAUCUS AND I DO THINK THE EXPERIENCES ARE DIFFERENT.

AND THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A QUOTE, ADVICE GIVEN TO ME BY GENE WAGENIUS AT A TIME WHEN THERE WERE MUCH FEWER WOMEN SERVING IN THE LEGISLATURE.

AND SO I TOOK THAT REALLY SERIOUSLY.

>> Eric: NOW, YOU TWO TALKED ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND IT'S A PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.

CAN YOU KIND OF SHARE ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, WELL, ERIC, THE LEGISLATURE IS INHERENTLY RELATIONAL.

WE'RE ALL TOGETHER FOR MANY MANY MONTHS WORKING ON SOYING PROBLEMS TOGETHER, AND SO IT'S, AS REPRESENTATIVE GAROFALO SAID, IT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT EVEN WHEN ONE DISAGREES, TO BUILD THAT RELATIONSHIP AND I FEEL THAT THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE MOST ENRICHING PARTS OF THE WORK FOR ME.

>> Eric: THIS PLACE IS ABOUT PEOPLE, THAT WAS YOUR QUOTE FROM YOUR SPEECH.

>> YEAH, AND I WOULD SAY I MEAN THE RICHEST EXPERIENCES THAT I HAVE HAD IN THE LEGISLATURE -- IT'S BEEN EVERYBODY SAYING BUT THE RICHEST EXPERIENCES I HAD WERE SOLVING DIFFICULT PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY AGREE WITH, AND PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I THINK I HAD WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES WITH ATHENA HOLLINS.

I CAN'T IMAGINE TWO PEOPLE FURTHER APART ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

>> Eric: SHE DID A THROW PILLOW FOR YOU.

>> IT WAS A LITTLE PIECE OF EMBROIDERY, A LITTLE STITCHERY WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST THOUGHTFUL GIFTS I'VE EVER RECEIVED IN MY LIFE.

>> Cathy: I THINK THIS IS LOVELY TO HEAR Y'ALL TALKING ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND GETTING ALONG.

BUT THEN WHY ARE Y'ALL AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS?

AS YOU LOOK AT SOMETIMES FLOOR SESSIONS.

I MEAN, AND ESPECIALLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE SENATE, BY THE WAY?

I MEAN, YOU ALL ARE, WE'RE USED TO WATCHING THROW FOOD SOMETIMES DURING YOUR FLOOR SESSIONS, BUT THE SENATE THIS LAST SESSION, HOLY MOLY, WHAT HAPPENED THIS?

WHAT'S WITH THIS RANCOR?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS A REFLECTION OF SOCIETY AND WE SEE THAT SOCIETY IS MUCH MORE COARSE, MUCH MORE POLERRIZED ESPECIALLY WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, PEOPLE GET THEIR OWN INFORMATION BUBBLES AND REALLY ARE CONSTRUCTED ALTERNATE REALITIES.

NO ONE SHOULD BE SURPRISED THE SENATE SCREWED THINGS UP, RIGHT?

OVER A TEN-YEAR PERIOD THE HOUSE IS ON THE BALLOT EVERY TWO YEARS.

THE SENATE, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THERE ARE TWO ELECTION CYCLES OVER TEN YEARS WHERE THEY'RE NOT ON THE BALLOT.

AND IT IS A LAW OF POLITICAL SCIENCE IN MINNESOTA THAT THE MINNESOTA STATE SENATE WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON THE BALLOT WILL SCREW THINGS UP FOR THE MAJORITY PARTY IN THE HOUSE.

IT'S JUST A -- SO YOU SAW THAT THIS YEAR WHERE THE HOUSE WAS ACTUALLY -- WELL, I DIDN'T AGREE WITH THE AGENDA THE D.F.L.

WAS PASSING THEY WERE ON TRACK TO MOVE THINGS.

IT WAS THE SENATE THAT STARTED CAUSING PROBLEMS AND REALLY WAS THE GENESIS OF EVERYTHING BLOWING UP AT THE END OF SESSION.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT THE GREATER DIVERSITY OF THE HOUSE IN PARTICULAR?

YOU MENTIONED THE CAUCUSES YOU'RE PART OF.

IT REALLY HAS CHANGED FROM NOT EVEN THAT LONG AGO REALLY.

>> ABSOLUTELY, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AND I THINK IT'S EVEN BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE NORMALIZED, PEOPLE SHARING THEIR EXPERIENCES OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

BUT I WILL SAY WITH THE SOCIAL MEDIA I THINK IS A BIG CHANGE WHERE I GUESS I DON'T KNOW IF THIS S THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHER PEOPLE BUT I MEAN, I EXPERIENCE DEATH THREATS, THREATS AGAINST MY SAFETY THROUGHOUT MY TERM IN OFFICE OFFICE.

I THINK THE VERY FIRST SPEECH I GAVE ON THE FIRST FLOOR I HAD THREATS AGAINST MY KIDS AND FAMILY BECAUSE OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY KIDS AND FAMILY.

AND SO I THINK THAT ELEMENT OF IT CHANGES WHAT THE WORK IS LIKE AND CHANGES HOW TOXIC IT IS AND THE TOLL THAT IT TAKES ON US AS PEOPLE TO SERVE AS WELL.

AND WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOUR COLLEAGUE MIGHT SAY SOMETHING TO SET SOMETHING OFF, TO POST SOMETHING ON TWITTER, IT'S PRETTY HARD TO WORK WITH THAT PERSON MOVING FORWARD.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU GOTTEN SOME OF THAT WITH THE ISRAEL-PALESTINE BUSINESS?

>> NOT SO MUCH ON THAT, BUT SOME OF THE HIGH INTENSITY ISSUES, YOU KNOW, GUNS, ABORTION, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

BUT I'M NOT ON TWITTER, IT'S JUST MORE TECHNOLOGY THAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

SO I'VE SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, ESCAPED SOME OF THAT TOXICITY.

>> Eric: CAN I TELL A STORY?

I HEARD IT FROM SOMEBODY ON THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE.

YOU SAID, REPRESENTATIVE NEU BRINDLEY, DON'T CRITICIZE MY BILL, I'LL GET YOU A HIGHWAY.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> CLOSE, THAT WAS CLOSE.

>> Eric: HIGHWAY 8, TAYLORS FALLS.

>> I TOLD FRANK, HE CAME TO ME AND SAID LISTEN, I'M GIVING YOU SOME MONEY, WILL YOU BE NICE?

I SAID, FRANK, IF YOU PAY FOR MY ROAD I WON'T SAY A THING ON YOUR BILL.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Cathy: THIS IS HOW LAWMAKING IS DONE SOMETIMES, RIGHT?

>> JUST IT WAS A GOOD AND NEEDED.

>> I SENT FRANK A NOTE ABOUT A FATAL ACCIDENT THAT HAPPENED A FEW MONTHS AGO.

>> IT WAS A SOLID SAFETY PROJECT.

I THINK THERE WERE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT WANTED IT.

>> Cathy: REPRESENTATIVE BECKER-FINN MENTIONED THE TOXICITY, THOUGH, AND YOU MENTIONED SOCIAL MEDIA.

I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, AND ERIC AND I SOMETIMES TALK ABOUT THIS, HOW MUCH FUN WE HAD COVERING THE LEGISLATURE WHEN WE WERE THERE.

HAS IT LOST ITS FUN?

I MEAN, IS IT -- IS IT NOT AS FUN AS IT WAS?

>> URDAHL SAID THAT IN HIS SPEECH.

>> WELL, I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS ES.

BUT AGAIN THIS IS A REFLECTION OF SOCIETY.

AND BY THE WAY I FORGOT, WHENEVER I'M ON I ALWAYS SAY, CATHY, ERIC, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Eric: YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> Cathy: WE KNOW THAT.

>> NO, BECAUSE OF THE COARSENESS OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND HOW PEOPLE BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY THAT HAS LEAKED INTO THE POLITICS AND THE REALITY IS THAT EXTREMISM IS ON THE MARCH RIGHT NOW AND IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A LOT OF YEARS, IT'S EASY FOR ME TO CALL OUT EXTREMISTS ON THE LEFT BUT THE REALITY IS MY PARTY HAS A PROBLEM WITH IT TOO.

AND WHAT WE NEED TO HAVE MORE OF ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO ARE YES HIGHLIGHTING PROBLEMS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE BUT ALSO SHINING A LIGHT ON THEIR OWN PARTY AND THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: JUDICIARY BUDGET.

YOU'RE ON PUBLIC AFETY.

DEMOCRATS AND CRIME.

WHAT DO YOU GOT?

>> WE SPENT MORE MONEY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT AND VICTIM SERVICES -- I MEAN, IT WAS THE BIGGEST BUDGET THAT WE'VE SPENT ON PUBLIC SAFETY IN 2023.

SO I THINK WE HAVE AN AMAZING CHAIR ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE, I THINK KELLY MOLLER'S PARTICULARLY EFFECTIVE AT WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE, PARTICULARLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK ALSO US WOMEN SERVING TOGETHER I THINK REPRESENTATIVE RARICK AND CHAIR MOLLER WORK ESPECIALLY WELL TOGETHER.

BUT, AGAIN, THE SENATE GETS IN THE WAY.

>> Cathy: SAY, WHAT DO Y'ALL, AS YOU LEAVE, THERE'S ALWAYS ISSUES, YOU'VE WORKED ON TONS OF ISSUES, OBVIOUSLY.

I THINK I KNOW WHAT REPRESENTATIVE GAROFALO'S GOING TO SAY, BUT I WANT TO KNOW FROM YOU, WHAT DID YOU EAVE BEHIND THAT YOU REALLY WANTED TO ACCOMPLISH?

>> I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, YOU KNOW, TO THIS CONVERSATION ACTUALLY ON POLARIZATION, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US MOVE AWAY FROM BEING A CAUCUS STATE ELECTING OUR CANDIDATES, AND IS I'D LIKE TO SEE US MOVE TO BEING A PRIMARY STATE.

I THINK THAT -- I MEAN, IT DOESN'T SOLVE ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS BUT I THINK A LARGER POOL OF VOTERS SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHO OUR CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO BE.

>> Cathy: MAYBE YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE CHANGED THAT AT THE LEGISLATURE.

>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

>> Cathy: REPRESENTATIVE HORNSTEIN, WHAT DID YOU LEAVE BEHIND ON THE TABLE THAT YOU WANTED TO FINISH?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF WORK WE NEED TO DO ON HATE CRIMES AND BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER, ESPECIALLY NOW, IT'S AN ISSUE THAT I'VE WORKED ON.

I'M VERY HAPPY THAT WE PASSED THE HISTORIC TRANSPORTATION BILL, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS 20 YEARS IN THE MAKING.

AND WE GOT THAT DONE LAST YEAR, ADDED A LITTLE TO IT THIS YEAR AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT AND LEAVING ON A GOOD NOTE THERE.

>> SO OBVIOUSLY, 14-HOUR DEBATE WE HAD ON THE SAFE STORAGE BILL AND THE GUEST YOU HAD ON EARLIER TONIGHT, FIREARM SAFE STORAGE WAS SOMETHING I'VE WORKED ON FOR MANY YEARS, AND BUT FOR THE SENATE MAYBE COULD HAVE GOTTEN TO THE GOVERNOR THIS YEAR, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE FOLKS WHO WILL CARRY ON THAT WORK.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT MINNESOTA'S COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN COLLABORATING AND COOPERATING TOGETHER BETTER.

THAT'S WHAT OUR SECRET SAUCE HAS BEEN FOR YEARS AND YOU LOOK BACK AT THE EDUCATION REFORMS OF THE LATE 1980s WHERE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS INITIATED CHARTER SCHOOLS AND AS WELL AS OPEN ENROLLMENT, AND I HAD ALWAYS HOPED THAT MINNESOTA COULD KIND OF FOLLOW IN THAT TRADITION AND UNFORTUNATELY THE POLARIZATION AND THE EXTREMISM HAS SEEPED INTO THE EDUCATION ARENA SO NOW WE'RE SEEING DECLINING RESULTS AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE WOULD ALL BENEFIT FROM HAVING A MORE BALANCED GOVERNMENT AND AVING THAT COOPERATION COME BACK.

AGAIN, WE ARE A COLD STATE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, AND HE ONLY WAY WE CAN REALLY OUTCOMPETE OUR COMPETITORS WE CAN'T BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE, OR WE CAN'T BE THE LARGEST BUT WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN COOPERATE AND WORK TOGETHER BETTER AND THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE IN THE EDUCATION REFORM ARENA THERE'S A HUGE GAP BETWEEN HERE WE'RE AT AND WHERE WE COULD BE.

>> Eric: YOU'LL FOCUS ON THE COFFEE SHOP, OR?

>> HA, NO.

I MEAN, YES, WILL CONTINUE TO RUN MY COFFEE SHOP BUT HOPING TO GET BACK INTO THE LEGAL WORLD AS AN ATTORNEY.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOUR POST-LEGISLATIVE PLANS?

>> WELL, I TEACH A CLASS T HE U OF M. I WANT TO CONTINUE TEACHING AND CONTINUE WORKING ON THE ISSUES THAT I CARE DEEPLY ABOUT.

CLIMATE, TRANSPORTATION, BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

>> I'M IN THE PROCESS OF FIGURING THAT OUT.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SORT OF MY CALCULATION WITH RETIRING FROM THE LEGISLATURE WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M TOO YOUNG TO RETIRE FROM THE LEGISLATURE, I'M NOT GOING TO BE A LIFER, I'M NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOR 20 YEARS, GOD BLESS YOU, FRANK.

AND FRANKLY I THINK ESPECIALLY AS WOMEN THERE COMES A POINT WHERE WE START GETTING TOO OLD TO MOVE ONTO SOMETHING ELSE.

SO I'M AT THAT CROSSROADS AND I GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT IS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

>> Cathy: AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING.

>> I'M A NETWORK ENGINEER IN MY PRIVATE SECTOR JOB.

BUT RIGHT NOW I'M GOING TO GET ON A CRUISE AND WITH MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE JULIE, THAT'S MY PLAN.

>> Eric: FRIDAY NIGHTS, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT EXCITED, BUT THE REST OF YOU CAN COME BACK AND VISIT ON FRIDAY NIGHT ON A PANEL.

>> IT'S NOT WORK FOR US.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> Eric: THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SERVICE TO A GRATEFUL STATE.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

♪ ♪ >> IT'S A LITTLE EARLY TO BE THINKING BUT I THINK A GOVERNOR'S JOB, PEOPLE SAID BOY YOU'VE REACHED FOR A LOT THIS YEAR.

THE GOVERNOR'S JOB IS TO HELP PROVIDE THAT VISION OF WHERE WE'RE GOING AS A STATE.

I WANT THIS TO BE IF SOMEONE WAS THINKING ABOUT HE UNITED STATES WHERE WOULD I WANT MY CHILDREN TO GROW UP.

I WANT IT TO BE MINNESOTA.

AND I THINK IF YOU DO THAT, A LOT OF THE REST OF THIS FALLS IN PLACE.

>> THANKS FOR COMING DOWN.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

♪ ♪ >> Eric: I REMEMBER THAT INTERVIEW.

LITTLE DID ANY OF US KNOW THAT GOVERNOR WALZ'S SECOND YEAR IN OFFICE WOULD BE DEFINED BY A WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC.

THE HOUR HAS NEARLY EXPIRED, BUT FIRST WE HAVE A MINNESOTA HISTORY PUZZLER FOR YOU.

THIS WEEK'S EFFORT IS ONE OF OUR PATENTED MYSTERY PERSON QUERIES.

AND THE PRODUCER ASKED ME AGAIN TO TALK IN A SILLY VOICE.

I WAS BORN IN THE EARLY 1900S ON THE IRON RANGE OF MINNESOTA, BUT BY THE TIME I REACHED HIGH SCHOOL, MY FAMILY HAD MOVED WEST TO CALIFORNIA.

[ SPEAKING IN STILTED VOICE ] I EARNED A BUSINESS DEGREE FROM STANFORD IN THE 1930S.

AND AFTER TWO DECADES IN THE FAMILY BUSINESS, A FEUD WITH MY BROTHER LED ME TO BRANCH OUT ON MY OWN.

TO THIS DAY THAT "NEW" BRAND CARRIES MY NAME.

MY QUESTION IS SIMPLE.

WHO AM I?

THAT WAS WEAK.

WE WANT TO HEAR YOU FROM WHETHER YOU ARE CALLING FROM COMPUTER AVENUE, MILKY LAKE, OR ORANGE TOWNSHIP IN DOUGLAS COUNTY.

651-229-1430 IS THE NUMBER TO CALL WITH ALL OF YOUR GUESSES.

THE PRODUCERS LISTEN TO EACH AND EVERY CALL.

YOU CAN ALSO DROP US A NOTE TOO.

OUR ELECTRONIC INBOX IS ALMANAC@TPT.ORG.

WE PROMISE THE PRODUCERS ALSO READ EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOUR MESSAGES.

WHILE YOU'RE ONLINE, HEAD OVER OUR WEBSITE ALMANAC AT TPT.ORG.

YOU CAN CHECK OUT ANY PORTION OF TONIGHT'S SHOW YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED OR DIG INTO OUR ARCHIVES A BIT TO WATCH A SHOW OR TWO FROM THE PAST.

JUST ENOUGH TIME LEFT FOR SOME SHOW ENDING MUSIC.

TONIGHT'S SELECTION IS A PRODUCER FAVORITE.

THIS WEEK BACK IN 2008, GRAMMY AWARD WINNER DAN WILSON JOINED US IN STUDIO.

HE WAS EMBARKING ON HIS SOLO CAREER AFTER BEING A MEMBER OF SEMISONIC FOR MORE THAN A DECADE.

TAKE A LISTEN.

BACK NEXT WEEK, AND BE CAREFUL.

♪ >> LYRICS: WE'LL SIT DOWN FOR A WHILE AND LET THE EVENING ROLL DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE TIME WE'LL FIND A PLACE TO STAY THE PEOPLE ROUND HERE SEEM FAMILIAR IN SOME WAY LOOK KIND OF LIKE WE DID BEFORE WE GOT SO COLD ♪ ♪ AND IN THE AIR THE QUESTIONS HANG WILL WE GET TO DO SOMETHING?

WHO WE GONNA END UP BEING?

HOW WE GONNA END UP FEELING?

♪ ♪ WHAT YOU GONNA SPEND YOUR FREE LIFE ON?

♪ ♪ FREE LIFE LET'S FALL IN LOVE AGAIN WITH MUSIC AS OUR GUIDE WE'LL RAISE OUR ROAD HANDS AND LET GO FOR THE RIDE DOWN INTO UNKNOWN LANDS WHERE LOVERS NEEDN'T HIDE ♪ ♪ WE GOT THESE LIVES FOR FREE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'VE BEEN ... >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY ... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

EDUCATION MINNESOTA, THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

PAINT CARE, HELPING MINNESOTA PAINT SMARTER TO PREVENT WASTE.

MORE AT PAINTCARE.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND COMMUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.