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♪♪ - Hello.

I'm John Cleese.

I think we all know that music, aside from the pure pleasure of it, sometimes has a transcendent power.

What is called sacred music seems universally to be a form of prayer, a vehicle for spiritual practice, because music and sound are so clearly connected to our higher selves.

So now we're in for a special treat, because the reverend Alan Jones and Native singer Joanne Shenandoah are going to give us the opportunity to experience something of this.

So settle back, take a long, deep breath as we join our host, Phil Cousineau, on this musical, soul-rendering episode of episode of Global Spirit, the first internal travel series.

♪ [reverberating pipe organ music] ♪ ♪ - Music is the universal language.

It has often been called the doorway to the soul.

Music is a unique force that has brought human beings together since our distant ancestors first huddled in caves with flutes and drums.

In a sense, all music is sacred, but it seems that some music has a transcendent and transformative quality.

[organ flourish] and then there is silence.

I've often wondered about the nature of sound and silence.

Can one exist without the other?

And what makes music sacred?

Can the same music be sacred in one culture and not another?

As usual, I'm haunted by questions.

So we've invited two very knowledgeable individuals from different cultural and spiritual traditions to join us.

- [singing in Native language] - Joanne Shenandoah is a Wolf Clan member of the Iroquois confederacy, the Onondaga Nation.

She is a Grammy award-winning musician with over 40 compilations of her recordings.

- [singing in Native language] - [singing in Native language] - Alan Jones is the dean of grace cathedral - Alan Jones is the dean of grace cathedral in San Francisco.

Dean Jones is a prolific author who has had a lifelong relationship with liturgical and other sacred music.

Both Joanne and Dean Jones live and breathe music.

To them, music is a kind of prayer.

- [singing in Native language] - Welcome to Global Spirit's Music, Sound, and the Sacred.

Joanne, let's start with you, by asking you, what are the core characteristics of sacred music in your tradition?

What makes music sacred?

- Music, to us, is celebration, life celebration.

We have songs for everything from birth to death.

We have songs just for the plants, for the medicines.

Every single ceremony begins and ends with music, because music is a healing force.

It is what allows us to grow and open our souls as human beings, but we also give that celebration through music.

So it's the essence of who we are as Native people.

- Alan, now, you are Dean of a cathedral that's known for its sacred music performances.

What does it take to make music sacred?

- The philosophy, if you like, or the understanding I have is that the whole universe is a symphony.

And it's to get in touch with the symphonic character of reality that we-- why we make music is to be in tune with.

We use the word "in tune with," or--and the ancient idea of the music of the spheres and so on.

And to be in touch with something that is breathtakingly beautiful.

We don't have enough understanding of beauty in our culture and in our common spiritual life.

And beauty is healing.

Beauty is not just being beautiful or distant, but it also confronts us with how we treat each other.

It has social and political implications as well.

So the metaphor of music is very, very deep and very, very powerful about helping us resonate with each other and with who we are.

- There's also a physical aspect of this.

You've written beautifully in your book soul making that there is a compunction at the heart of religious life, which means a piercing of the heart.

Does sacred music pierce the heart, penetrate us in a way that other music doesn't?

- I wouldn't say that other music-- I mean, I think anything that brings us sort of out of ourselves, what I say, "get off the treadmill of the self."

And when you see some little kid just sing a song, and he or she is just out of-- they're out of themselves, and they have lust into some other activity, that sort of little example of ecstasy means that they're really in touch with something bigger than themselves.

So it can come from all kinds of music.

But for me, the sacred music does that, if you like, dare I say, in spades.

I experience it in all sorts of places.

When you see someone singing their heart out, that phrase, you know, when they sing their heart out, they are actually much more in touch with who they really are and what the universe is about than in any other kind of activity.

- What Alan is saying is so right on in Native cosmology as well, because we have something called a good mind theory, okay?

So with a good mind, we will come together as one.

With a good mind, we will listen to one another.

We will communicate with each other.

We'll celebrate life together.

And how we do that is, we-- sage--sweetgrass for the peace of mind, and sage to clear your soul.

And so when I create music, I'm coming from a place that is purely a vessel to the next world and to the creator.

I've asked for it, and I'm there.

It just is the way it is.

- Is that what you mean when you say that it's not a struggle in the traditional western way of fighting and hurting for our art, as opposed to it being a gift, a gift from beyond?

- Exactly.

Exactly.

Iroquois people believe, and I was taught this as a little girl, you were born-- everyone on this earth was born with a special gift but a gift or a talent that is more than a gift or a talent or art.

It is a full and right on-this-earth responsibility to not only yourself but for every generation that follows you.

So it's a very powerful blessing to have a gift.

And if you use it with a good mind, then you are, of course, making a much better world for everyone.

We've all met someone who does not like their job very much.

[giggles] And I have to say that I am incredibly blessed and so thrilled to have been given the gift of music.

And my Native name is Tekaliwah-kwa, which means "she sings."

So I probably should have started doing this a long time ago, but... - could you sing something for us?

Maybe the Prophecy song that I remember you singing at the Parliament of World Religions in Cape Town, South Africa.

- Yeah, sing.

Sing.

- [giggles] Certainly.

This song is a beautiful song.

It translates to these words: "awaken," "stand up," "be counted."

We are being recognized in the spirit world, and we are responsible for ourselves, for our families, and for our nations.

[singing in Native language] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - Joanne, when I first heard you sing the Prophecy song in Cape Town, I can't tell you how moved I was, not only by the music, but also looking up and down the aisles, around the auditorium, and seeing how 7,000 people representing 100 or so cultures and faiths, were moved by music, words, lyrics, that they didn't literally understand.

How is that possible?

- All the time, I am requested by people to translate lyrics.

And my answer to that is, these songs are not meant to be literal.

They are meant to transport you or to take you to a sacred place.

And therefore, the meaning is very simple in many cases.

There are over 200 songs in honor of women, for example.

And there are songs just for healing.

There are songs that actually will quicken your death.

There are some pretty powerful songs out there.

And I think, like this particular conference that we were at, the parliament of the world's religions, there were many people there open to wanting to hear spiritual music.

And they were-- you could hear a pin drop.

I mean, it was so quiet.

And I was very moved as well.

I mean, there's no doubt.

It's just-- have to ask to do this song.

The song is so powerful in its own sense.

And the words are, you know, above and beyond anything I could ever imagine saying.

What do you sing for all these world religious leaders?

What song would you pick?

- Those words, as simple on the page as they are, when they're sung, when they emerge out of the soul, as they did in your performance, lift our spirits.

How are our spirits moved like that?

How do we lift the spirit?

- The spirit lifts us.

[laughter] - So it goes both ways?

- Yes.

- It's such a deep function of all great religions that have a kind of unaccompanied, clear, resonant form of chanting, which makes one listen, become more present, and therefore, more available to what's already there.

- And yet, there's a lullaby quality... - Yes.

- To a song like this.

- Mm-hmm.

- So that listening to this kind of music lulls us in the best way.

It gives us a kind of calm and consolation.

- Well, it actually takes away that crippling fear that we live with, without necessarily understanding it or even knowing it, that so many of us live with fear as a basis for our encounter with reality, our encounter with the world, so that everyone is potentially an enemy.

- Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

- The world is, by definition, a hostile place.

And to break that down, I think music does that.

It breaks that barrier down.

- My old friend Joseph Campbell used to say there's a deep human longing for a moment of experience when you and the other are one.

How do you know when you're in your body, in your voice, you're actually connected to something sacred?

- it's not one special moment, or... There are too many to count when you know you're there, because everything outside of your body is-- it's as if it doesn't exist.

- Right.

- You don't exist, virtually.

You are transported yourself.

Therefore, you transport others.

And once you've done that, and you know it, and you've experienced it, you want to keep coming back.

- Does music allow us to experience aspects of the sacred we can't experience any other way?

- The wonderful thing about music is that it's accessible to everybody without any clutter of language.

I mean, language is wonderful, but it also gets in the way.

And so music comes along, which helps us understand that what we are striving for can't be trapped in words.

There's a wonderful phrase of saint francis of assisi, who said, "preach the gospel to every creature, and if you must, use words."

- [laughs] - So the way of being present is very important.

And I think music is a way of helping us to be present to each other in a way that is not a burden but a delight.

- Joanne, I was also touched by the fact that you were singing with your beautiful daughter, leah, here.

Can you describe for us what it means to sing a capella on your own and sing with a group?

- When I sing with my sister or my daughter, it feels as though the music is coming from the same place, not that there's two or three of us, but that it's one voice, and that we are in full harmony, spiritually and through sound, in the same place.

I've also performed with a full symphony, 68, on stage, where I also requested if they would take a moment and-- while I asked the creator to put all our minds and our hearts and souls together as one so that our music would lift the soul and lift the heart of those who are not only in the audience but of those who are on the stage.

And they were very taken by that, very surprised.

And it was incredible.

- No resistance?

- I think a little surprised... - surprised.

- initially.

But well done.

- And, alan, what about you and your experience with grace cathedral and one of the world's most renowned choirs?

You must certainly see the difference between one voice in a cathedral and then a choir and then, perhaps, an entire congregation singing as one heart.

- What is interesting is, if you have a boys' choir, it's a very fragile instrument.

It's that their voices break, and you have to start again.

And it's interesting to me to listen to the choir at the beginning of a year, and by the time you get to Christmas, how the quality has changed.

When they're beginning, actually, not only to sing-- they sing well individually, but they sing well individually because they're listening to each other.

They're aware of each other.

And when they're aware of each other, there's a kind of-- when the resonating notes blend together.

And that's a wonderful moment in a choir when that happens.

It's terrific.

[men singing in Latin] ♪ - [singing in Latin] ♪ [all singing in Latin] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - Alan, I was deeply touched by listening to the grace choir.

What is it about the Latin that's so transportive?

- Back to the earlier music we heard sung so beautifully, that you're listening to something that resonates, in a way, on a much deeper level, because it's been used for centuries and centuries and centuries.

And that connection is very strong.

This is how I came into my faith life, as an eight-year-old boy singing in a choir and singing this repertoire and being lucky enough, for example, to sing in the coronation choir at Westminster Abbey.

And for a little kid to have this kind of experience was amazing.

But that comes as a tremendous gift.

You can imagine as an 8-year-old kid, from 8 to 13, five years, consistently singing this repertoire.

And it changed my life.

And it was my entry into the spiritual life as a work of imagination rather than-- it was a response to something beautiful.

Or, as the monks who taught me or trained me for priesthood, was that it's got to be a love affair.

Our spiritual life is a love affair with all the ups and downs of a love affair.

And music is part of that.

- joanne, what about you?

What was your response to listening to the choir but also the Latin?

- Well, I think this music is natural, you know?

I think natural and born from a place where people wanted to feel part of something.

People wanted to be together, singing together.

I mean, this is what it draws out in me.

Our music is community.

This is community.

It has so many similarities in that sense.

The fact that all the boys are singing brings, to me, a memory of all of our young boys singing together.

And that's what we do.

It's a life celebration, and they all are not embarrassed to be a part or to have high voices.

Or no one is actually, you know, saying, "too bad they're going to lose their voice."

I mean, it's just like, "wow.

Isn't that beautiful?"

There's no real dissecting of your gifts when you see something like this, for me, because where I come from, the place that I recall or what it brings to memory is these beautiful young men, proud to lift their voices in song together, which is a lovely thing to watch.

All: ♪ If jesus had wanted ♪ For any wee thing ♪ A star in the sky ♪ Or a bird on the wing ♪ Or all of God's angels in heaven ♪ ♪ For to sing ♪ He surely could have it ♪ 'cause he was the king [together] ♪ He was the king All: ♪ I wonder as I wander ♪ Out under the sky ♪ How jesus the savior ♪ Did come for to die ♪ For poor orn'ry people ♪ Like you and like I ♪ I wonder as I wander ♪ Out under the sky ♪ Out under the sky ♪ Out under the sky ♪ Out under the sky - It's just wonderful to see the human spirit, as you say, as the human spirit, not clouded with... - Clear.

- Clear, a clear spirit, yes.

And it happens through music, as we discussed in many conversations.

- and it's interesting, the relationship between the music and the silence... - [gasps] Very much.

- And how much silence is a preparation of being centered and clear.

And then the music erupts out of silence and then goes back into silence.

- It is humbling to watch how music can transform one: soul, being, health-wise, spiritual-wise, every-wise.

You can see it all over the world, how it affects people that don't even speak your language.

- I remember a story of a man who was dying of Emphysema.

And I forget where I read this.

A nun was administering-- like a chaplain in a hospital, and the man went... [wheezes loudly] and she bravely got up behind him and held him like this, and she sang only the thing that she knew, which was the kyrie from the mass.

And his breathing became relaxed, and the pain... I mean, that whole notion of music has a very great power to calm us, to deepen us, to transform us, to challenge us as well.

- Maybe because it holds both sound and silence.

So this is a wonderful opportunity for us to pursue this notion that the music may be in the space between the notes, as igor stravinsky once said.

In the clip we're about to see in Meetings with Remarkable Men, we'll see an illustration of how silence can be as powerful, if not more powerful, than sound itself.

[solemn bagpipe and drum music] ♪ ♪ - Once every 20 years, we Ashokhs meet here to test the power of our art.

This valley is unique.

Only a sound of special quality will make its stones vibrate.

He who can produce the sound will be the winner.

[mystical flute music] ♪ ♪ ♪ [gentle string music] ♪ - [light vocalizing] ♪ ♪ [light vocalizing continues] ♪ ♪ [men speaking in native language] - [man singing] - [singing continues] ♪ ♪ [mystical flute music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - [light vocalizing] ♪ ♪ ♪ [voice echoing] ♪ ♪ ♪ [echo slowly fades] - Watching this film clip, I don't know about the two of you, but I was haunted by it.

How did it make you feel watching this?

- I was reminded about musicians that come to grace cathedral and actually are able to play the cathedral as a musical instrument, in terms of resonance and space and having the cathedral answer back.

So the cathedral is a participant.

- Joanne?

- It brings to mind... I've had some experience with performing music that was requested.

We have what are known as visionaries in our culture, and they tell you what you're supposed to be doing with your life and other various and sundry responsibilities.

And I was told there would be some songs, which would flow through me, that were from a time of true peace.

And I asked for these songs.

They flowed through me.

I went to perform them.

You may not realize this gift until it's actually right at your doorstep, you know, the moment you go out and you open yourself up to the divine.

And I stood there onstage.

I performed these songs.

I thought the entire audience already knew them.

Harmonies, more glorious harmonies that I've ever heard in my life.

[sighs] It's powerful.

And afterward, I went to dinner with some friends, and I said, "wow.

"everybody knew those songs already.

"that's amazing to me.

Everyone in the audience was singing."

She said, "no, Joanne, that was all from the stage.

All that music was like angels were singing with you."

And this has happened to me about seven times now.

So this is a natural thing.

[giggles] I don't know how else to say it but to be grateful for the gift.

Yeah.

- What's the relationship between sound and silence?

- They need each other very much, in that if there weren't the silences between the notes, we wouldn't be able to discern melody or tune or harmony counterpoint, and that, as you beautifully put it, there's something other going on, other than our effort, other than our manipulating things, that there is an otherness out there that seeks to be in communion with us.

And we have various names for that.

- Right.

- But it's genuinely other and yet seeks communion.

And this communion requires-- if I'm going to be in communion with you, it means, paradoxically, I have to be separate from you and reverence, have a respect for your otherness, and at the same time, then be open to being together.

So the sound and the silence go together a bit like that, I think, in that in order for you and me to be one, I have to recognize our separateness.

Otherwise, it's just a power play.

It's someone overcoming or overpowering another person.

And so this mystery of communion is-- I think, is partly what the great gift of music is about.

- I've heard it said so many times, "be still and know that I am God."

And those moments of music are born, I think, from taking that inner soul, if you will, your spirit and opening it to the universe and the creator to say, "i am here, I will accept, and I will also be what I'm supposed to be."

- It's like the poet dante says that the imagination is an image-receiving instrument, not an image-generating one.

In other words, it's to be receptive to the transcendent in such a way that then you can be a vehicle or an instrument of it, a conduit for it.

- And he also describes human love as having the capacity, the power, to move the sun, the moon, and the stars.

- The stars.

- And that is touched upon in this film clip.

You remember, Gurdjieff's major theme was that human beings are asleep, and when they're asleep, they become robot-like.

And so all of our training, our practices, is to help move-- as you just said so beautifully, to move the soul.

So the competition here of singing or playing music to move stone, I find riveting.

I remember this theme coming up in the Greek myths, with Orpheus as having the capacity to move the stones in the underworld.

It's a theme in Egyptian mythology.

Even Victor Hugo in The Hunchback of Notre Dame describes Quasimodo as wishing that he had a soul that could move and not be stone like the stone he's surrounded by at Notre Dame.

- We live in a culture that-- you might say the culture is a colossal consciousness-lowering device, in terms, to keep us asleep.

- So we're stoned.

- We are stoned.

- [giggles] - Yes, yes, I mean-- and that's a great metaphor, actually... - It is.

It is.

- In that there is an awful lot out there that would wish to keep us asleep.

On the other hand, we'd want to say-- and why music can be so healing-- that waking up can be very painful.

And therefore, we have an investment to stay asleep, because we might have to wake up to something that we have to face about ourselves.

And so, again, music has a tremendous healing quality, placing us in a much bigger context all the time.

- We have a story, if I might.

- Please.

- It is about Hayenwatha.

He so loved the idea of peace.

He wanted peace desperately among the-- what were not then Iroquois Nations, but he went from village to village very aggressively pursuing peace.

He had been given this message by the peacemaker, that we could live a different way.

So he so aggressively worked at making sure that everyone heard this message; he really made very angry this very evil chief named Tadodaho.

And "tadodaho" means "the snakes growing from his head," and--evil person, very evil.

And Tadodaho murdered the entire family of Hayenwatha.

And Hayenwatha sat by this lake for days.

And he was so grieved and so pained that he couldn't think of anything else.

And as he watched these ducks as they flew from the lake and as the water dropped off their wings, he said, "there has to be another way.

"i have to, in other words, "kind of wash my soul of the anger and the hatred that I feel for Tadodaho."

So he took a song, they say, and sang to the chief.

No words.

He sang a song of peace and forgiveness.

And it completely changed his entire being.

And that's how the confederacy was born.

- Well, yeah, that's that compunction, that being pierced to the heart and that, actually, to be unafraid of being sad sometimes.

- Yeah.

It's a human-- - As a culture that we're supposed to be, you know, happy all the time, and that is such a burden, such a kind of weight.

And that music can respond to any level and mood and bring us into another place.

And I think that's its great gift.

- It transforms you.

- Yeah.

- Can we pursue that thought for just a second?

Because one of the glories of music is that it's a form of transport.

- Mm-hmm.

Right.

- Like religion, philosophy, sports itself is a form of transport.

So where are we going when we're transported by music?

In this story, we're transported from a sense of evil into a sense of good.

A man's heart is transformed from stone into a kind of gold, if you think of peace as a form of gold.

What realm-- where are we transported?

If the desire is so great in the culture to move out of the sadness, to put on some music, to go to a cathedral, to listen to Joanne's albums, where do we want to go when we're transported?

- Probably anywhere but where we are.

[laughter] We tend to focus so much on the negative.

- Right.

- All of the-- Most of the magazines or the rags, as it were, or the things that are available to our young people, we are focusing--there's a lot of focus on the negative, and it's hard to get away from that, as you know.

- Yeah, it even, though, turns spirituality into a product, into commercial, like, something to consume.

So we do this in order to get something.

And I think that can be a very distorting way of understanding, a way of trying to manipulate the sacred for our own benefit.

I'm going to do "x."

And as a result of my doing "x"-- I'm going to sing, or I'm going to be part of this liturgy, or I'm going to be part of this cult-- I will get something.

And that is a very seductive and dangerous way of understanding the life of the spirit.

But actually, you're not out to get anything, 'cause you're out, then, to be available.

W.H.

Auden, the poet, said, "bless what there is for being."

And therefore, I think, you've suddenly experience-- if you want to say what you're going to get, you're going to experience your life as a gift.

And you will experience a deeper and deeper sense of communion, which, in itself, I think, then translates into action, social justice, caring for people, respect for people, and so on.

But I think it's the consumerism-- "if only I got this thing, whatever it is, I'd be happy."

- So epiphany becomes a product.

- Exactly.

I like that.

That's very good.

Epiphany becomes a product.

And then religion becomes something you can buy and sell.

And it becomes totally corrupted by that.

- Do you recall the great religion historian, Huston Smith, describing religion as a striving for God?

See, he keeps it in the verb rather than the noun.

It's not a thing that you're trying to accomplish.

Instead, it's a process.

It's a way of life.

I see that in the realm of art as well.

- Yes.

- Those who are writing, painting, sculpting, dancing, are in love, almost intoxicated, in the best sense of the word, by the act itself.

- One of the fundamental images in many of the traditions, certainly in my tradition, that God is the artist or poet of the world, and that if we're made after the image of God, then for us to be fully human, we are artists, because God is an artist, and we are works of art.

To understand yourself as a work of art and as an artist, that is a wonderful metaphor for the spiritual life.

Saint Bonaventure, the franciscan, said that Jesus is the art of God.

Talk about the word of God, but Jesus is the art of God.

And to recover religion as a work of art, to recover religion as a work of the imagination rather than believing 17 impossible things before breakfast... [laughter] You and I coming from different traditions, instead of clobbering each other with doctrines, is to say, "have you heard the one about..." You know, as you told the story of Hiawatha.

There is so much in the scriptures of these stories.

And we trade stories.

And out of that comes our music.

And we can then-- and without being threatened by another tradition, we can say how rich the spirit is to enable us to sing so many different songs.

- Well said.

- Joanne, could you follow up on that?

What are you striving for when you sing?

Are you reaching for something... - Oh, very much.

- That is unexpected?

Because sometimes I think of chagall's incredible line, where he says, "I paint in order to be surprised."

- Oh, beautiful.

- So then it's open-ended.

- A lot of times, it's open-ended for me.

I don't know what's going to actually come out.

Or it all comes out at once, sometimes, within a ten-minute period, you know.

It depends on what's going on, or, of course, emotion, human emotion, is always very important, because I think our leaders, husbands and wives, our children, every aspect of our communities, we have difficulty communicating with each other.

And one of the best ways to do that is through music.

So primarily, for me, I like to write music that is heartfelt, soulful, blessed, and I accept it and want to have people hear it and also have it to help heal them as well.

There are people that have said they've waited for this particular song to come to their ears before they were willing to walk on to the next world.

Waiting.

Stuff like that.

It's just shocking to me sometimes.

We don't understand the bridge that we're meant that-- the gifts with how-- the other bridge that we can be.

- Joanne, we'd be delighted if you could sing another song for us.

Could you tell us what you have in mind, what the name of it is, maybe a little of the story behind it?

- Yeah, Phil.

This song is called Watch Me Through the Night.

And I dedicate it to all healers.

And I believe that everyone walking the earth has healing capabilities.

We give healing through our songs, through our prayers, through a gentle touch on the shoulder, a wink or a smile.

There are many ways of healing.

And we all have that gift.

And for my healers, people who have been in my life, I think it's important to send out this song for all the healing that needs to be done on our planet.

[gentle acoustic guitar] ♪ ♪ With water and fire ♪ And an earnest desire ♪ He called to the beings of light ♪ ♪ His hands reach out to mine ♪ And together we'll find ♪ A place among the stars tonight ♪ ♪ Find me ♪ Guide me ♪ Fill me with heaven's light ♪ Protect me ♪ Enfold me ♪ And watch me through the night ♪ ♪ ♪ With wind in her hair ♪ And her hands in the air ♪ She called to the beings of light ♪ ♪ As her vision unfolds ♪ Her eyes touch my soul ♪ Her spirit begins to take flight ♪ ♪ Find me ♪ Guide me ♪ Fill me with heaven's light ♪ Protect me ♪ Enfold me ♪ And watch me through the night ♪ ♪ ♪ As he prays to the place ♪ Where healing begins ♪ He asked for the body to be whole ♪ ♪ Seeking truth from beyond ♪ He sings a healing song ♪ Through his hands ♪ He delivers to my soul ♪ Find me ♪ Guide me ♪ Fill me with heaven's light ♪ Protect me ♪ Enfold me ♪ And watch me through the night ♪ ♪ Find me ♪ Guide me ♪ Fill me with heaven's light ♪ Protect me ♪ Enfold me ♪ And watch me through the night ♪ ♪ And watch me through the night ♪ ♪ And watch me through the night ♪ ♪ And watch me through ♪ The night - What do you think about that?

Music is helping us become more real, becoming more present to the moment, our own souls, and each other.

- Well, I think we can look at it in terms of how certain people may think I can't sing.

- I see.

- [laughs] I have an album called All Spirits Sing.

And as a Native person, we believe that everything on this earth has a spirit or a song.

We hear the birds sing.

We hear the waters with their song and the winds.

And everything has its gift to us, you know.

So one thing that I always try to impress upon young children is, "don't worry about how it comes out, "what it sounds like, "because you are-- your body was made to make a sound."

- Sound.

- Make a joyful noise... - Noise before the lord.

- As you would say.

- Yes.

- And to carry that one step further, um... And the fear of being made fun of or the fear of not sounding good or the fear of not knowing how to play any instrument or expressing yourself through music, is likened to this experience I had when I was going to give childbirth.

Fear.

[laughs] I spoke to an old Native woman, and she said, "Joanne, your body is made to have a child.

As your body gives birth, it also is made to die."

So we live from birth to death with the fear of each.

And somewhere in the middle, through that journey, hopefully, we become comfortable with all the many things our bodies were made to do, whether it's eating, whether it's playing, whether it's sleeping, whether it's singing, whether--anything that we do in our lives.

I think there's a pill for just about every little thing.

- The Berkeley poet Adrienne Rich once described our time as embodying the need for a common language.

She says, "we're all dreaming right now of a common language."

Can music be a common language that can help heal the sores, the wounds, between people?

- I think so.

- Most definitely.

- No question, because we won't find a common language in ideology, I don't think, or in, you know, statements.

We will find it when we sufficiently pay attention to each other's music and join in with each other where we can.

- And that's the key, I think, join in, because since I have a chance to travel all over the world and bring music forth, I will try to learn other languages and incorporate them into my songs.

Recently, we were in istanbul, and we had thousands and thousands and thousands of people singing along to these words, "Inshallah baris," which means, "God willing, let there be peace."

And everyone in the audiences were on their feet.

Now, I think people all over the world want that in their heart of hearts.

- Do you recommend that people sing?

- Every moment they can.

[giggles] - That's what bathrooms are for.

- [laughs] And driving down the road.

Most definitely.

- Well, I want to thank you both for joining with us on Global Spirit, showing us that there is a spirit that joins and unites all of us.

So thank you both for joining us.

- Hello, I'm John Cleese.

Are you still vibrating with those Afghan mountaintops, the boys' choir, and that haunting music from Joanne and her daughter?

In these programs, we're trying to convey an experience, a sense of feeling it, rather than just talking about it.

So I hope you're enjoying it all as much as I am.

And I trust you will be joining us again soon for another episode of Global Spirit, the first internal travel series.

♪♪ ♪♪ Marz Attar and the Attar family.

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