Now the 490 with Gretchen de Bakker might kill them.

And Kevin Mullin, Welcome to the 419, powered by GTE and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullen.

Gretchen de.

Becker.

I kill him.

It is a mystery.

Guest edition of the 419, and it is my mystery guest.

It's always a pleasure for mine.

Yeah.

You know what?

This is going to be a great show.

And I said today, I think it's the pilot.

So she overslept, and I'm.

I'm really awake.

I am not I am not good at this sport.

So I might get this analogy wrong, but I think this is kind of like tennis.

Yeah.

We're like, I'm going to hit the ball over, over the net.

It's not coming.

Back.

And then I sort of expect you guys to be between the two of you.

Someone has to be able to return it.

Yeah, well it was sharing a bring you if I, Gretchen, that you have overslept.

I don't mean to put you on the show.

This year, but can we talk a little bit about your shared, morning.

Is there an alarm on your phone?

Do you.

Are you snooze or are you just users?

I have an alarm on my phone.

I usually set three in advance.

When times as a first one, start going off at.

Four 3515.

How am I doing it?

Usually I do one.

In between those I like to go back to sleep.

Okay.

But explain.

So four 3515 and then you actually woke up at what time?

6:05 a.m.

yeah.

So 605.

But I have timed it perfectly to look this.

I have timed it perfectly.

To get here.

I have to be out the bed at 515.

Everyone knows we record this in the morning.

I think you know that we're here in the morning.

Are they?

Do now.

Are you getting in your jeans every day and coming here must be hard.

Let me tell you something.

I sleep in these jeans also.

When I let them go up, I am immediately.

And so anyway, I'm.

Also not wearing.

Jeans.

I have a time.

You're not.

You're right.

Yeah, I think, I think I try this.

One, though.

That was weird.

Yeah, well, you know what?

Yeah, it was my, summer Canadian tuxedo.

I'll wear whatever I want up.

I'm.

I'm catching up.

Okay.

Catching up, but I'm 20 minutes behind schedule.

Kevin, you, you have a guest today that usually is a high profile person.

I'm sure you've not let us down.

Any hints you want to give us?

Yeah, so I, I am I am actually, taking a a page of inspiration from one Gretchen I knew.

It's the backyard.

Yeah I know, yeah, well.

Or aspirational for you?

Well, you're half right.

Yeah.

Okay, so.

So let's do it.

Okay, so I'm going to throw out some letters.

Okay?

Okay.

A little alphabet soup for you guys.

To describe who the guests.

My mystery guest is.

Inevitably, I like to have mystery guests that I also don't know.

Okay.

Okay.

So.

Right.

Yeah, I do know who they are, but.

And I know of them.

Okay.

And I've had, I think a decent number of interactions with this individual.

Okay.

But they don't know me.

Yeah.

And I don't really know them, so that's what I'm excited about.

It.

It is, it's my dad.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Decent amount of interactions is kind.

Yeah.

That's right.

All right, here we go.

The letters are tol.

Okay.

That's Toledo.

Pedo.

Just hear the whole thing.

That's how we finish that.

Okay.

AEC You you get.

United.

Just give a h a. CE0.

Okay.

Why are you bringing these people here?

I don't they don't want to talk to us.

DNA.

And you know, what.

Is it the.

You know, what's a plaque?

It's not.

And you let me also throw in I man alive.

I'm at a loss.

Which means, of course you are as well.

I think we could potentially throw EV in there as well.

I don't know, okay.

All right.

Are you're just making stuff up?

Just saying.

I'll tell them.

Nope.

All right.

I have no idea.

All right.

Yeah.

Good.

I will add four more letters to the alphabet soup when we come back.

Okay?

Okay.

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More information at Retro advisors.com.

The 419 powered by GT is made possible in part by.

Supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT, a mystery guest edition of the show.

And it's my mystery guest.

I threw out, some letters right before the break.

I said ATC.

I said, tol ito uw GT CEO and I also said DNA, but I could have also said so given giving it away, that would have given it away.

Please welcome the CEO of SC, Mr.

Poppy.

Thank you so much for being here.

It's great to be here.

Thanks for having me on today.

Inevitably, I think it's, I imagine most people get your name wrong.

That is it the puffy or is it fancy?

It's the puffy.

I always say it rhymes with coffee, and then everyone remembers it.

Yeah, that'll do it.

Because a lot of people say to me, I said, rhymes with.

Coffee.

Yeah, I love it.

All right, well, thank you so much for being here.

Let's just catch up.

These chatter heads, on the letters I threw out.

So.

Tol Edu.

Toledo.

I'm a graduate of the University of Toledo.

Born and raised here in Toledo as well.

So that.

Where'd you grew up?

West?

Toledo.

Okay.

You know, I'll throw in some West Toledo things into my into our discussion today.

Sure.

All right.

I said, you get.

The United Way of Greater Toledo, the United Way.

We house them within our building downtown Toledo.

Where.

One of our great philanthropy partners.

A this one, I got.

The American Heart Association.

I've got a pretty good history with them.

Do do, 15.

It'll be 15 years in August.

I had open heart surgery, and so I've been a supporter of them.

We just, last weekend, we just did the annual heart Walk, raised almost $300,000.

It was it was an excellent turnout.

And then a week, there's no chance Gretchen would have ever gotten this.

Architecture, engineering and construction is the industry we're in.

We're in the architecture and engineering space of that.

And then, of course, I said CEO in DNA, which for me, I think go hand in hand.

Much of the work that you guys do, I, I think makes up the DNA of a company.

You guys are certainly.

And we'll talk more about, the industry, but I think it's more than just building physical buildings.

Right.

There's much more that you guys are involved in than just.

Hey, here's the four walls.

You figure out what happens on the inside.

But why don't you let's talk about so we as a company, if people aren't familiar with.

So we, how do you describe sweet other people?

Sure.

So here's my elevator speech.

When when people say that.

So we're architects and engineers and we provide design services.

Were headquartered here in Toledo.

We've been in Toledo since 1948.

So coming up on, 78 years, that we've been in Toledo, but we're now a global company.

We've got offices in Mexico and India and 20 different offices across the United States.

So actually Toledo, the the portion that's in Toledo is probably 25% of the overall company, but it is the headquarters and is our largest office.

So, still very strong here in Toledo.

So we do.

We do do a lot of buildings.

Our claim to fame, I guess I'll say, is we design factories.

So so we it's not widely known because we're kind of under the radar because a lot of the clients we can't talk about a lot of the work we do is proprietary, but we are the number two firm in the country designing manufacturing facilities.

And we've had that title for probably the last 3 or 4 years straight.

So whether it's an automotive plant, semiconductor plant is a which of course is a great business to be in right now.

It's a big part of our business.

We've done a lot of battery plants, of course, Toledo.

We do a lot of glass plants, across the country.

Across the world.

Really?

We've done projects in 40 different countries.

When you look back at the history.

But we also have a very strong architecture business.

So like the start high school wasn't necessarily design.

And so we've done, a lot of commercial buildings as well.

You know, the architects, you know, do do some of that.

They do.

We do health care facilities.

ProMedica is one of our big clients.

So you know that is mean design services, architecture and engineering.

I mean, that's that's the guts of our business.

But our real claim to fame is, you know, our ability to, you know, design custom.

We're into custom factories.

A client says we've never done this before, or we've got to get it done faster than we've ever done.

That's that's the space we like to play Is the firm a family firm or how is it?

Who is it founded by?

You know.

The the firm was founded by Al Sandborn, who's you know, he's he probably passed away 20 years ago.

So it's it's a partnership of, you know, we have, let's say we have roughly 1300 people globally and probably 400 of them are shareholders in the company.

So it's a really broad spread ownership.

And we have owners in in all the offices and countries that we work in.

So it's really a broad based ownership from that standpoint.

It the risk of outing, how mentally deficient I am when you're designing a manufacturing facility.

What is step one?

I mean, is it always reverse engineering?

I mean, you start with the widget first or, what what is what is a fool, which I am is, understanding of how this.

Well, usually the I mean, the first thing the client is usually saying here's when it needs to get done.

I mean, you just saw it's XYZ schedule because, yeah, the clients we work in work with, they're always market driven products, especially like semiconductor chips.

Right.

It's market driven.

So usually the first thing is here's when it needs to be done.

Now we're working backwards to.

Gretchen semiconductor chips.

Your thoughts on them.

They're needed.

Thank you.

Yeah they're delicious I mean I mean that's right.

The ridges for the actual conductor chips.

Not you always.

Have you been a strong advocate?

But, but I am fascinated by this.

And also to, there can be no shutting down, of the line.

Right?

Yeah.

It depends on the on the, you know, if it's a greenfield plant.

Yeah.

That's a different situation.

To hear about in the slightest.

Yeah.

Which were you know, we're starting from, you know, it's an empty field starting from scratch.

But sometimes it's a retrofit.

And that is a big part of it is minimizing the downtime.

Would you, put a shout out for another Toledo company, Owens Corning?

Yeah, please.

That's always one of our annually large client productions.

Very important.

So when we're going in to do a retrofit, you know, the guys are working 24 seven through the weekend to, you know, get the line back up as quick as possible if we've done a retrofit or, you know, a new line within an existing building to.

That's and what and at the risk of again, putting you on the spot from a historical standpoint, it it it cannot be an easy leap to go from Toledo, Ohio, then into a global market.

Do you know a little bit of the footprint of that decision making?

Was it from Toledo to Mexico or.

Yeah.

So, I mean, when I started the company in 2000, we just had three offices, Toledo, Troy, Michigan, and Nashville, Tennessee.

So it's through sometimes through organic growth, like I was actually the one I went down to Mexico and started that office from scratch, because there's a lot of automotive business down.

There, which.

Was a little more in turmoil right now down there.

But but that's why we started it because of all the automotive business down there.

But some if you look at our offices, say in Atlanta, Birmingham, South Carolina, those were two acquisitions of companies were made.

So it's a combination.

But it's it, it's it's one of those things like it's a 25 year overnight success.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All of a sudden we're a global company.

But it's you know and I owe a lot to you know, the leaders before me.

You know, I've only been CEO since 2020.

So a lot of that happened, you know, I've been a part of it.

But we've, you know, just gradually, you know, increased our footprint and the things that we do over the years.

So like the semiconductor business was a business we acquired 15 years ago.

We weren't you know, we didn't start that organically.

Sure.

So again, it's just a combination of organic growth, acquisitions, continuing to add where we're at, all of the above.

Did you have the locations like Toledo first and then started getting contacted for these manufacturing jobs and then moved to the areas, or were you did you move and then which came first?

Yeah, we well, we say we follow our clients.

Yeah.

If our clients are going there, that's where we go.

So like we have an office now in Austin, Texas because that is now a big area, for semiconductor manufacturing.

So we consciously said we need to be in Austin because that's where the business is going.

Same thing with Phoenix.

And so so yeah, we go where our clients are.

That's that's the rule we look at when we look to expand.

I'm curious, I mean, why Toledo as the headquarters today, right?

I mean, the reality is your, you know, when you started the firm, you said there were three offices, right?

Troy, Toledo, Nashville.

Now you've got a lot more spaces to choose from.

The business is inevitably pulling in different directions.

Why do you choose for Toledo to still be the headquarters today?

And why is it the Metroparks?

Got it.

I guess it's it's part of it, I guess is legacy.

Right?

But I mean, we're we always think of ourselves as a Toledo company.

I'm Toledo person.

The CEO has always been from Toledo.

Now could be in the future.

The CEO might not be in Toledo just because now we have you know, our our CFO is in Texas.

Our chief strategy officer is in Oregon.

Our our chief operating officer is here in Toledo.

So we have executives now intentionally across the company because we have different businesses and that and and those those people are growing those businesses.

And and so they've they've risen in the ranks.

You know, we're incorporated in Ohio.

It's always going to be there.

I don't, foresee a situation even if, say, the CEO was in a different city, that the headquarters would still be here because we're in Ohio Corporation and and Toledo was the base we've been at this location that we're at right now.

It's, 10th and Madison since 1978.

So we own the building.

There's not a real motivation for us to go somewhere else.

So we choose to be here.

We like the city.

We like being.

You know, I always say we were in downtown before it was cool down to downtown.

Yes, sir.

We I mean, we were downtown when it was cool.

Then it became uncool and everybody went out, and now everybody came back to Dallas.

Yeah.

We've never left downtown.

The entire history of the firm has been downtown.

You're looking for a cool find, an engineer?

Yeah.

I've always said that a good time.

That's right.

If you're not Owens Corning and you want to have your backyard redone, or you want to build a new house or a smaller business, is that so?

We have those services available too, or is it more large scale?

It it it's not necessarily I mean, you look at our website, of course, our marketing team, we promote the big projects.

Those are the big cool projects we do a lot.

I mean, let's say, the number is probably half of our projects are, you know, I'll say projects that our fee is less than $100,000.

I mean, really small projects, we don't do residential, you know, that kind of thing.

But we'll do very small retrofits, especially if it's for, you know, we have a core client that says, look, I got a big project, but I need you to do that.

We'll do that.

So we do.

And that's a great place for young engineers and architects to learn the businesses on the smaller projects.

So we do a lot of small projects.

They just they just don't get the publicity that the bigger ones do.

This is potentially going to be a dumb question, one, because it's coming from me, but two, because I'm not sure if I know the right way to ask it.

But is are you exclusively doing brick and mortar and walls and roofs, or is are you engineering processes?

Yeah, all of the above.

With some clients that we will just do the building in the utilities and the site work.

But other clients, we're doing everything the process, the controls and PLCs that run the, you know, the automation in the factory.

So it depends on what the client wants and how they've structured the project.

Depends on what our skill set and our capacity to be able to do that.

So, yeah, it's it just depends on the project.

But we can do it all if, if the client wants us to do that.

On a in a personal note, sometimes being the top of a mask pulls you out of what kind of gets you out of the bed in the morning, meaning you're an engineer, by DNA.

That's one of the, Yeah.

So what what is it that makes you tick?

Is there a fascination with how things work?

So that transition into a CEO, was comfortable to you?

Because essentially, now you're running a large, right.

You're manufacturing something different, right?

Although the are the moving parts are human beings.

I don't mean, to sound cold, but how what's duality that makes you successful?

What?

Yeah, that's a that's a great question.

And I'll say some of our staff will say sometimes I wish Vince wouldn't get too involved.

We have you know, we actually have a list there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I still love I mean, we're doing project sites.

I love going out to the site to see what our teams are doing in the field, see the building going up.

So I spend a lot of time on the road not only visiting the sites that we're working on, but visiting our different offices.

Because I'm a person, I like to stay close to the business.

I mean, I am an engineer by degree.

They don't let me do engineering anymore, and it's probably a good idea because I've been removed from the actual details for a while.

But every once in a while I'll.

I'll throw something out there.

You know, especially when we go into a plant that gets me, you know, really going.

But day to day, I always say this.

I found out when I became CEO, I get dumber every day because every day something new comes up and you learn something new.

His job is continue.

And I think you'll hear that from any CEO.

That's like, what's going to happen today when I walk in the office today.

I'm so interested in your, sort of design esthetic as an engineer, as an architect, when you're driving around, what are you constantly thinking?

Oh, that could use that or that could do that.

And then what does your office look like?

What does your home look like.

What's your.

A disaster.

Yeah.

What is your esthetic if you if you have one.

So, I'm, I'm a clean desk type of person.

Yeah.

You won't find out with all engineers.

I mean, the engineers are like everybody.

Some people are, but I'm a clean does.

People walk into my office is like, does anyone work here?

Yeah.

You know, so it's just it's just got.

Yeah.

It's just got a laptop and a mouse and a, you know, pad of paper and pens on, on my desk.

So, Yeah, I'm, I'm that type person.

I like everything very organize them every meetings.

Got an agenda.

So I you have definitely have an engineer's you know left brain mindset of of organization that way.

We're talking with Vince to possibly the CEO of we I you know, when you took over the role as CEO, you know, you go from, you know, designing buildings to now caring for people, right?

It's a it's a different role.

What were some of the things that you set out as priorities on that side of the house?

Well, it's interesting because and I've told this story before, if you look into my to I got to CEO and rose through the ranks because my ability to bring in revenue and bring in clients for the company that that was that was what I was good at.

We found out early on I was better at bringing work in than executing the work.

Not that I was a bad engineer, but I was, as you know, I was better at that.

So I spent a lot of time on the road, brought a number of clients into the company.

And that's how I rose.

And I still have clients that I, you know, that I have personal relationships with today, that I work on.

So I kind of got off track there with your question.

That's all right.

As you think about like the shift in like now is the CEO.

So well, here's what happened.

I became CEO in January of 2020.

Covid hit in March of 2020.

So first of all, I said 98 plans are meant to be flexible.

In this case, I tossed it in a train trash can.

Yeah.

And I'll say my natural instinct is not the I guess I'll say people, if they were talking about Vince, the first thing you'd say.

Yeah, top line guy once he's he's a business focused guy, maybe not as focused on people, but that forced me to say a lot of people were going through different things in our company, their families.

I mean, I personally, I got a bad case.

I was hospitalized for a week with Covid was pretty, pretty bad situation.

And so that brought it home to me that, you know, people were struggling.

And so we really I got more people focused on what we did.

You know, help people work closer with people.

And so it is because at the end of the day, I'm only as good as the 1300 people that work at the company.

Right?

Because I can't do every project, I can't do everything.

So I've got to make sure people are happy.

So for sure, I'll say, as I've grown into the role, I've definitely become more focused on people.

And how do we care for the people that work for us, which I you know, if I look at the history of the company, they've always been focused that way.

And Covid was a, you know, it was right front and center.

What do people do?

We now we're all working from home.

How do we do that?

How do I connect with people?

How do people stay connected.

So it's definitely been a growth growth for me to be able to do that.

We're talking with Mr.

Puffy on a mystery guest edition of the 419.

We we take a break when we come back.

I also want to talk about community investment.

Sure.

So he has been a leader in that space.

I want to talk about, kind of the what, the why and the how, for you guys.

And we'll talk more about your background as well when we come back here on the 419 powered by.

To me, community means connecting to others.

I'm Danny Miller, and welcome to the point.

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Where you come to watch, listen and learn.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT Mystery Guest Edition.

We're joined now by Vince Patty from Zoe.

We were talking before about a little bit about the industry and kind of your path to CEO.

One of the things that stood out to me is that, you know, you've been such a leader in the community on corporate investment, back in the Toledo area.

I know you guys do that across the country in your other offices, too, but sure.

But I want to focus specifically on the Toledo area.

How do you let's start with kind of how you guys set those priorities.

How do you build the guardrails around that?

Because I imagine, you know, from, you know, your trip from this studio back to the office, you're going to get three people asking you for something.

And it might be the three of us.

How do you how do you decide what is important to the organization and what, you know, projects you take on and which ones you say?

That's just not for us.

Right.

So I think it starts I think it starts with the vision we have for the company.

So our vision is very simple.

It's, imagining and creating the future for our clients, colleagues and communities.

So we start clients are first because we don't have clients.

We're not business.

So we got to take care of the clients.

But in order to take care of the clients, we got to take care of our people, and then the take care of the clients.

But the part that, I think sometimes gets overlooked and is is underestimated is the communities, right?

The communities that our people live and work in, we feel we need to invest in that.

If you want good people.

And that's that's not something you can put on a spreadsheet or say an ROI.

Same thing with any particular project.

We choose.

You know, there's usually not a tangible ROI or something you can see, but you know, in your gut that this is important.

So our first priority is Stem related things, you know, technology, math, science, engineering.

I mean, those are the things that get our top priority.

So probably our number one partner in that regard is the University of Toledo.

We've got a decades long I mean, the founder of the company graduated from the University of Toledo.

And so we've got just a decades long, strong investment, that we've worked.

You know, there's the SSD seminar hall over there.

And, and currently we're working with the engineering college on trying to help them attract more diverse students into the university and providing some funding for training and mentoring to do some of those things.

So it that's that's our number one priority because that obviously helps our business.

But it's all all to nonprofit.

So I think from from that standpoint, you know we do that with colleges everywhere.

So Stem is a high priority.

But then it comes down to, you know, you want to ask about the Toledo community.

You know, our I'll say our largest philanthropic partner is United Way of Greater Toledo.

We house them, as I mentioned earlier, we housing in our building, and that was a conscious decision on our part, especially in a post-Covid environment where we went to more hybrid.

We've got a big building with a lot of space, and the United Way was they wanted to get out of the building there in.

So Wendy piece through and I talked and I said, we've got the perfect space.

It's able to be because with our client confidentiality.

Certainly.

Had to be a space where they can't be coming into that.

I mean, we have regulations around that, but it was a space that they've got their own entrance badge, entrance, you know, to come in and out, in a separate way.

And it worked out perfect.

So I mean, it was it was a great and, you know, they get up, they get a really good rate because I'm not in the landlord business.

That's not what I'm doing.

But we looked at it as a real help to them.

And there, you know, we have a big United Way campaign.

I know we're in a lot of campaigns are going down each year and the United Way, ours went up.

Yeah.

And so we've really focused on that because one of the things I learned during Covid about the United Way is there's a lot of gaps that have to get filled.

There's a lot of different charitable organizations, but there's a lot of gaps that don't get filled in.

The United Way is the one that kind of fills those gaps.

And I saw that during Covid.

I don't I don't think people understand all those gaps that they have to fill, and they do so.

So there for sure.

And that's what our employees support, of course, themselves with that.

But of course, the Metroparks is is another great partner.

We just did a a big donation for the, wetlands down in the Riverwalk, something we wanted to be part of.

Yeah, I can speak to that.

First of all, gratitude.

We talk about Toledo.

It's similar to the mountains, right?

Leader wasn't necessarily trying to be New York City or Los Angeles, although we do have world class institutions.

I mean, she's like like yours.

But the Riverwalk, as well as the museum and the zoo and the library and the Imagination station and the art commission, the Riverwalk, does punch above its weight.

So the floating wetlands, that we we got, thanks to you, six generous gifts are almost exactly, like what you'd see in Chicago.

They are largely a demonstration piece so children can learn how wetland is supposed to function.

And I'll tell you as soon.

It's a testament to nature wanting to do what nature does.

Because as soon as those wetlands went in the water, we saw snakes wildlife immediately.

So I had to save it.

They took, so now people be walking by that by I mean, we've had a million visits to the Riverwalk already.

So this is a teaching method, that we wouldn't have if it wasn't for your institution.

Well, thanks, I appreciate that.

And that's a good example of, I'll say, over the last 3 to 4 years, we've taken a definite change in our philanthropic direction.

I mean, we've always been invested in the community, but over the last 4 to 5 years, the companies doubled in size.

So, I mean, we've had tremendous growth.

And we wanted to make sure, okay, what are we putting back into our communities as a as part of that?

And so we we made an, a decision to try and have more things with impact.

To your point, yeah, we get a lot of requests and we try and help as much as we can, but we really look for projects.

A how does this really have a really good impact on the community that, you know, and we think that was one that qualified as a that's, you know, that Riverwalk down there is is just fantastic.

We just I've walked it myself.

It's every time you walk, it's like something new.

It's been added to it.

It's it's great down there.

We're just about to announce a, Toledo Museum of Art has got a big program going on.

They're going to be doing some some big remodeling, and, and we we're putting.

That lens in the museum.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So so we're we're we're making a major gift there.

We're so we is going to, have an area there.

I don't want to get ahead of my marketing team's announcement, but, we've got a specific area that we've been working with Adam on.

Yeah, to designate that.

So.

So we're looking for things that, you know, really impact and have a positive impact on the community.

But like I said, another one is Hope Toledo.

You know, we're you know, that's part of our Stem focus and pre-K.

You know, they're they're struggling a bit right now.

I don't think that's you know, that's public knowledge.

But we've been very committed to them because we feel that as an engineering and architecture firm, you can't you can't graduate from high school and say, you know what, I think I want to be an engineer.

You.

And so we've got an integrated approach working with Toledo Public Schools a lot.

We sponsor, Hawthorne Elementary.

There's a school that we sponsor, Stem focus.

So we're we're trying to work on that long term pipeline, you know, to get technical people because, the number of technical graduates, whether it's engineering, architecture or any technical area in the United States, is is continuing to drop.

So we just look at a vertical integration of starting literally at the elementary school level to get kids interested in, in these fields, and so that they take the right courses in high school that prepare them for college.

You we talked to the very beginning.

You're a West Toledo guy.

Where'd you go to school growing up?

Before it.

Before Toledo.

I went to Saint Francis High School, Christ the King elementary.

So I lived in the same house my in West Toledo.

And you're asking caught my entire life.

Yeah.

Or.

Well, I should say, I was actually born, in South Toledo, right off Broadway.

And then the family moved to West Toledo when I was 4 or 5 years old, and I all the way through college.

I mean, I have a four siblings.

We all, you know, worked our way through college all way.

All five of us graduated from the University of Toledo.

We all worked for them.

You know, my parents were great that way.

My dad used to say, if you're going to college, you don't have to pay rent.

You're not going to college.

You got to pay the rent.

Sure.

If you're talking about your folks, are are they linear thinkers or the engineers?

What what what shoulders did you stand on to be events today?

Well, yeah, certainly want to give credit to my parents.

They they both, passed away at this point.

My father was a city Toledo policeman for 30 years.

So he, you know, I say I grew up in a, I would say a typical middle class environment.

My mom was a stay at home mom until we all got in school.

And then she worked at.

It was the old LaSalle store.

If you remember, West Gate?

Yep.

She worked there.

And and, she was, I I'll say I get a lot from her.

I mean, she didn't go to college, but she worked her way up from being a part time, sales clerk to the store manager, you know, over, like, 20 years.

So she she and my dad, he rose to the rank of lieutenant, so I kind of got it in my genes, I guess, a little bit that.

Yeah.

You know, I've had people that got promoted in their careers as well and were successful in what they did.

So definitely owe a lot to my parents.

They were hardworking, and they nurtured us.

My dad saw early on, he says, yeah, I think this guy is going to be an engineer.

So like, at Christmas, you know, my gift might be a radio crystal set or something like a chemistry set or something like that.

So my dad was fostering that.

Yeah.

At a really early age, which, you know, not everybody has that advantage for sure.

Inevitably with your with your career, with your work, with your success.

I mean, you have lived, oh, I imagine a lot of places you spent a lot of time in Mexico building up that business.

You could live anywhere in the world.

But you choose to be here in Toledo.

Why I do, I just I love the city.

And you're right, we have.

I could say, you know what?

I'm going to relocate to Nashville and run the company there or to Atlanta or any of these other, you know, Austin sexy cities.

If you want to be.

I just like it here.

It's it's a I love the people here.

I like the culture here.

Yeah.

In some ways it's comfortable because I've been here and I've had I mean, I've traveled globally, Europe, Asia, I've been all over the place.

I've seen, you know, the Paris, Rome, all these great cities, Shanghai.

I've spent a lot of time in China.

But I love coming home.

I'm, you know, I'll be retiring in a couple of years.

I don't have plans to go down to Florida.

I plan to stay in Toledo.

You know, area.

So I just.

I just like the city.

I like being here.

And I've always felt like it keeps me grounded.

You know, I come here and it's it's a great city.

I've got, I've told story a couple times.

I followed you in a presentation at the University of Toledo on a Saturday, and if you can pick.

Oh, I remember that day.

If you can pick me to follow, always follow the engineer.

Because you will be seen as an entertaining, that just can make you feel all kinds of events.

That we.

It was Vance.

We brought for lunch, and you stayed the entire afternoon with the students.

It was a Saturday.

The weather was beautiful.

And you were talking about them.

Their travel.

And I was always taken with that experience because you're a very busy person, despite the fact that what we've learned today is that you're very humble and grounded in our fair city.

But, I'm sure that there was things to do, if nothing else to do, get some alone time.

And nonetheless, you're engaging with those kids.

They found you equally engaging, which is also shocking for an engineer.

But, that's a testament to you, sir.

I have friends who I care about a great deal that work for institution.

They say the same thing about you, so thank you for making Toledo a better place.

And my little Metroparks has certainly been made better by your leadership.

And, Robin Whitney, and everyone that works underneath.

The fence, I want to touch really briefly before we, head to the the quiz that you won't want to do.

Let's talk.

That's the part I'm the most nervous.

About, by the way.

Don't blame me.

I just want to see if you could comment briefly on AI and technology and how that is affecting your industry.

Are engineers going to be needed in 20 years?

Yeah, so that's a obviously that's a hot button subject.

Anybody knows I mean.

To me is just the movie.

Yeah.

I mean I kick kicked off AI in our company even before ChatGPT came out.

I saw that even in my strategic plan that I wrote for the company in 2020, you know, I could see digital transformation was huge.

And so I know there's I mean, my people bring up the same thing, Vince, are we going to lose our jobs right?

I get that question almost every town hall and some people are nervous about using it.

But, I tell the people I when I started this business was manual drafting.

I'm going to get to your question on AI, but I'm trying to I said when I said I saw this same hysteria when we went from manual drafting to CAD, right?

Yeah.

Everyone's like, oh my God, the world's end.

We're going to and and business got bigger.

And then the internet came out and everybody's like, And then the business got bigger.

So I've never seen a technology cycle that made the business smaller.

Did people's jobs change?

Absolutely.

And I've encouraged people.

What we're finding is we're taking more of a, a ground up approach.

We've given our people a lot of freedom to just experiment on their own with AI within guidelines, because we have clients that have restrictions.

So it's not a free for all, but we let people experiment.

And we found that's been the best way because we're using it's not been saying you need to do this.

They're looking at their peers that are creating these incredible programs using AI.

You know, our engineers and and even our corporate people are just coming up with fantastic ways to use AI.

That saves time to come up with different reports being more creative.

So I look at it as an opportunity, and I try and encourage our people to do that because I think you have to look at it.

I know you can find plenty of doomsayers around AI, and it's the end of the world coming into the data center growth that's happening because of it.

But I've looked at I've been through a lot of technology cycles, and I've, we've always come out better, stronger, through those.

And because I've been doing this since 1981, I believe in that.

We're talking with Vince Tiffany, the CEO of SSL.

We all right, buckle up.

It's now time for questions.

Wacky quiz.

More embarrassing today.

Yeah.

It's terrible.

I'm gonna ask you for rapid fire questions.

Gretchen's going to ask you to describe Toledo in exactly one word.

And then you and Matt are going to list the nine best things in Toledo.

Right.

That makes up the 419.

Here we go.

Do you play any instruments.

In high school?

I in grade school.

I played the guitar.

And in high school, I played, saxophone in the marching band.

Yes.

All right, if you found a magic lamp and the genie inside granted you three wishes, what would your wishes be?

Well, first would be success for my children.

Yeah, right.

All of them both.

I'm just going to.

I have two children.

Just.

I would say health for my family.

Yes.

Would be.

Would be a second one.

And, Boy, what's the third one?

Through my wishes.

But let's just say, a little more civility.

Yes, sir.

Across the world, I love it.

How about.

That?

We'll take it.

I'll take into.

What is your silliest dance move?

You go to a wedding song, comes on.

What's what's an easy one?

So my my brother and I both, if shout comes on at a wedding, we are on the floor doing the whole animal house.

They go jello in the hole.

Who?

That?

No doubt.

I mean, we can't if that happens.

We just got it.

All right, I love it.

And then have you ever won a trophy or a medal?

I've won.

You know, I'll say.

Yeah, I have, but I'll say the one that I remember the most.

It.

I guess it just popped in my head first was a year to the day after I had open heart surgery.

I ran a half marathon.

Oh my gosh.

And so I got a medal for that.

That's probably the one that, you know.

You should wear every day.

Yeah.

No kidding.

What's the one word you would use to describe the city of Toledo or the region?

Underrated.

Okay.

I love it.

And I like that because I like to be underrated.

I like to go under the radar.

I think the best thing in having is somebody to underestimate.

I'm stuck up.

All right?

You're stuck with me for the nine.

All right, you ready?

Sir, I got it.

Let's do it.

Fire away.

So I tried to go below the radar a little off the beaten path with this list.

I love it.

So the first one I have is the trail.

Okay?

It's one of the most beautiful drives in the city.

You're right.

And I always know if someone wasn't born here or if they're visiting because they'll say the Anthony Wayne Trail.

Yeah.

When I said the trail, you guys all knew what I was.

Talking about, right?

Yeah.

The people that have been here a long time, they always say the Anthony.

That's fine.

Yeah.

I like.

Okay.

The second one this is a some of these have personal connections.

The safety building.

It's celebrating its 100th year this year.

And I remember it because people may not remember this, but in the 60s you didn't have two cars in the family I mentioned earlier.

My dad was a city of Toledo cop, so my mom would save all the air and she would have to do for one day in the week.

And then that was a day we would all take my dad.

She'd pile us all in the station wagon.

We take my dad to work at the save.

And I remember as a kid seeing that safety building and being so impressed with it.

And sometimes on Saturday, my dad was a detective for a while.

He would take me into the safety building.

Oh, cool.

So even now when I drive by there and I'm downtown, every day, I think of my father and I think of us dropping him off at the safety.

My mom was a federal prosecutor.

Okay, you got to go into that building, and I it is.

I know just that experience.

Yeah.

Third, glassblowing art.

Yes.

Whenever I travel internationally, a lot of times it's custom to bring gifts.

My first stop is the Toledo Museum Museum of Art, and I get some.

So I've got I've got pieces from that all over the world that I take to give to other executives as gifts.

When we're doing business where it's appropriate, of course, and they're just fascinated with the glassblowing that we do here.

Yeah.

Lovely.

Yeah.

18th hole at Inverness.

Okay.

It's iconic.

Yes.

The golf courses.

But when I bring in clients they always want to go there golfing.

And I always wait for that moment when they get in a tee box on the 18th hole.

Yeah.

And you get some of these long drivers to try and put it on the green because you can do that.

Never going to stand up in the traffic.

After the first.

Centennial.

Court.

Yeah.

I mean, when I was in high school and I managed is still the same way.

That's where you get to meet girls or guys.

Everybody went to Centennial Quarry.

That was a cool place to go.

Amphitheater at the.

Zoo?

Yes, yes, I've seen.

You know, that's a place I've seen the most concerts.

It's a great place.

Whether it's music under the stars or, you know, I've, I've seen a number of.

The most recent one was, John Fogerty.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, he was fantastic.

There.

So here's one that's really off the beaten path.

La Paloma.

You know where that is now?

It's on Broadway.

It's a pastry shop.

Yeah.

No, the last two are West End things.

Okay, Nick and Jimmy?

Heck, yeah.

If you grew up in the West End in the 70s, your first legal beer.

Was it Nick and Jimmy?

Right, right.

And then the back.

Then the drinking age was 18.

So, I mean, it was like a rite of passage to go in.

Nick and Jimmy's in order.

Yes.

That's right, that's right.

And the last one, this is again below the radar, because this was my first job, and I was literally down the street from where I grew up, and my brothers and I, we all worked there and we could walk to work.

Kilgore's meats, you know where it is now?

It's at Lasky and Seacor.

They've been there.

I mean, we moved into that neighborhood in 1964, and they've been there that long.

They're still there.

Everything around them is changed, but they're there.

I work there cleaning up the butcher shop.

I learned what hard work was.

Right.

So so a plug in for them there on until a couple West.

Yes I think Vince thank you so much Vince to party with.

So we thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you.

It's great to be here.

I really enjoy it.

When we come back from one engineer to another.

This is an exciting show.

We'll have Mike Winooski, Lucas County engineer, will join us here on the 419.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by ZTE.

We're joined now by Lucas County Engineer Mike Penske.

Mike, thank you so much for being here.

Ski welcome.

And that's pronounced like coffee.

Exactly like coffee.

It's a good Irish name.

Yeah.

Exactly right.

What what is the look at the role of the Lucas County engineer.

So, Lucas County engineer, I kind of describe it.

I'm like the chief infrastructure officer of the county.

I'm elected by the people of Lucas County to build the best infrastructure for them, to serve them.

And, so one of the things we do is, is we're kind of our areas in the unincorporated areas of the county.

So if you're in a city or a village, we don't do we don't have any role there.

It's very limited.

But if you're in the townships and the unincorporated area, the county, we're the engineer that builds that infrastructure.

And we also guide the townships and their infrastructure.

And what do you mean by the infrastructure?

You mean roads, ditches, that kind of thing.

Yeah.

So so for our my role is in terms of roads, bridges, ditches.

Yeah.

So roads, bridges dangers.

So my background is in drainage.

So you need to.

I am not a. I'm not I. Actually can say.

That.

Yeah I actually fell into into the roads and bridges business.

My background is actually in drainage.

So I like.

To get a background in drainage.

And is that a good thing to say to meet women?

I don't know.

Maybe that's my wife.

That question.

Sure.

Yeah.

So she says, is did some questions to ask about the drainage specifically.

But it is a very, interesting career choice and or interest.

And so how did you even know that it was a thing that existed that that needs to be worked on?

And what's wrong with you?

Yeah.

So so I mean, it goes like right back to when you're a kid.

I mean, I was a kid that built cities and sandboxes and, make things go around my family has, cottage on on Lake Erie and the Canadian side on the North Shore.

And we had a lot of drainage problems in terms of ditches and those things coming into the lake and doing a lot of flooding, and, you know, and doing a lot of damage and really impacting people.

When I was a young man, there was a huge flood in the town where my wife grew up and were our cottages, and it.

Was just Canadian.

She's Canadian.

It was devastating.

It's devastating to the people there.

It took it took a long time for that area to recover.

And so that had an impact.

It did?

Yeah.

I mean, I always wanted to be a, you know, like I said, I was a kid who built sand castles, made legos, built things with blocks.

So I always had the gene, the creative gene that wanted to build.

Do you remember how you learned that, like that desire or that sort of, thing that you like doing meant that you would be an engineer?

Yeah.

I mean, my father.

So my my family comes from, I kind of a mechanical background.

My, my grandfather was a pattern maker, which is the people that make the patterns to make, you know, parts, those sort of things.

My father was an accountant, but he he helped out my grandfather in the pattern making shop.

So I'm from the Detroit area originally.

So in terms of auto, you know, did a lot, a lot around that in terms of how that works.

Like, there's the duality between, like a 70s, your day job and a politician is unique, right?

I mean, extremely unique.

Not very many people, we can onl unique.

Like, you can be extremely.

That's a pet peeve of mine.

But you won't even.

But it it you are signing up for.

I don't want to say abuse, but I wouldn't be wrong if I did.

Why?

There are certainly easier paths, I would think.

Although your profession is a very difficult one, certainly from a technical standpoint, but serving the public, having to.

Go up for.

Election and things of that variety, the duality of that is unique.

Can you walk us through a little bit about your decision to do that and be sort of available for public ire, if you will?

Yeah, I mean, the I mean, I'm a civil engineer by trade, so civil engineers, by their very nature, design and implement infrastructure for the public, whether it's private or public infrastructure.

I do it for the public.

I started out in the private sector.

I actually worked in a firm like like Mr.

Puffy.

That's how I started out.

I actually went into the public side, just kind of gradually.

Yeah.

But but the thing of it is, is civil engineers were the were really the only engineer that actively changes people's environments.

Yeah.

And as a result, whether I'm elected or not as an engine, as a civil engineer, you're going to have that impact with the public in terms of dealing with the public and working with them.

So, dealing with public with the public and civil engineering go hand in hand.

Yeah.

A little bit about your relationship with the former long serving, Lucas County engineer Keith Earl You were sort of, for a period of time, the heir apparent.

I know you you respected him a great deal.

Talk a little bit about his leadership and the things that you've done, maybe different or want to incorporate in the office since you've been there.

Yeah.

So, I mean, kind of.

I started out, I came to Toledo, I was working for a consultant in Arizona.

The Great Recession happened, and everything was happening.

Everything was falling hell in a handbasket.

So I was looking for a job because they're going to close my office down and send me overseas.

Ended up getting the job being the program manager for the Army Corps of Engineers here in Toledo.

That's how I ended up in Toledo.

Okay.

And, to be a county engineer, not, you know, not only do you have to be an engineer, but you also have to be a land surveyor.

So I have both.

I'm a I'm both an engineer and a land surveyor.

I had to go to school to be an engineer, and I had to go to school to be a land surveyor.

And it's a it's a pretty involved process.

So there's not a lot of us.

And when I first met Keith, he basically saw that I was both.

And he said, oh, you know, did you know that, you know, you could be a county engineer?

I was like, okay, what's that?

And he, you know, he kind of described me what the job was.

And, you know, when I first arrived here in town was like, well, that's great.

You know, I'm here at the core.

I'm here to do big, huge drainage studies.

And yeah, I was brought here to basically lead the drainage study down in Findlay, Ohio, which had a lot of flooding problems, because that was my expertise.

And so that was kind of always in the back of my mind, you know, go eight years after I met the Corps of Engineers, got really good at flooding and doing flood studies and then became an expert in flying around the country doing all kinds of things, trying to help people out there following problems.

But, you know, when you're when you're flying and you're kind of on the go all the time, you know, there's a there's a consequence at home.

Yes.

And so I was kind of, you know, wanting to slow down a little bit.

And Keith approached me again and asked me if I wanted to do the job.

And I said, you know what that sounds like?

Very interesting.

So, I took a look at it and ended up, making the decision to come over to the county engineer's office to eventually take his place.

And what was the first year you ran?

I ran, so I was appointed in 2020 and I ran that year.

So 2020.

So nothing going on otherwise that year?

No.

You were recently in DC.

Talk to me about, obviously we talked about the duality of this role as, as an engineer and a politician.

Talk to me about why, you were what you were doing in DC and why that's important to folks here in Lucas County.

Yeah.

So I go to DC quite a bit.

You know, one of the things about public being a public official and being a, government is a lot of our money comes from, different places.

So sometimes it comes direct through us, through our gas taxes and license plate fees.

So you have to advocate, of course, you're, you're you're asking the people for their money.

So you have to demonstrate to them how it's being used and why it's needed.

And you know, why that amount.

We do that with the money that we get in terms of tax dollars, and we only get moneys from license plate fees and gas taxes for roads and bridges here in Lucas County.

No, no property taxes.

Anything like that comes from those two sources.

And then you get it from grants, right?

So the federal government and the state government have all kinds of programs where they, provide moneys to local jurisdictions to build infrastructure that meet certain goals.

And, for that, for this, you know, you have to go to DC and advocate for those programs so they don't just happen overnight.

They they take a long time to build.

Like a ballroom.

Yeah, like a ballroom or other things.

But for us, you know, the way federal funding works is every five years they come up with, with a, what they call an authorization act, a Surface transportation Authorization Act.

The last one was called th Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.

The new one that just passed the House last week, is called the Build America 250 act.

But without those laws, there's no money from the federal government to fund local infrastructure.

So, last week is when we heard Infrastructure Week in DC.

And the House decided to release that bill during Infrastructure week while we were there.

That's a way for us to go and talk to our federal officials, whether they're with the administration or they're with Congress.

That basically state our case about why local infrastructure matters, why it's why it's key to the American economy, how it drives the American economy.

And then from my perspective, why north of why northwest Ohio needs those moneys and how northwest Ohio drives the American economy and how, you know, those moneys, make a big difference.

And why we matter to to the to the nation.

I'm sorry.

We're talking with Lucas County engineer Mike Purdue.

Ski Mike, we had about 2.5 minutes left to go.

Let's rapid fire.

It's now time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

All right, four rapid fire questions for me.

Gretchen's asking for your favor.

Describe Toledo in one word.

Nope.

Describe Toledo in one word.

And then Matt and you will list the nine best things in Toledo.

What kind of gifts do you like to receive?

Type of gifts?

Like to receive, anything?

Honestly, people's presents is the best gifts to receive.

Especially people you haven't seen in a long time.

Love it.

If you were a potato, what way would you like to be cooked?

Oh, is that crazy?

Definitely.

Baked.

Yeah.

Okay.

No drug testing in these.

What is one thing you still have from when you were little?

So when I was four years old, I made a, in nursery school.

I made a little Christmas ornament, a little star, a Christmas from, like, a cookie cutter.

And I still have that.

Yeah, I put it on my tree every year.

I love it.

And what is your least favorite drink?

My least favorite drink.

Ooh, that's a good one.

We're going to say come kombucha.

I don't like them.

Okay, good.

Yeah.

Okay.

What's the one word you would use to describe the city of Toledo or the region?

Kindness.

I'm in.

Love it.

All right, brother, tune me nine of your favorite things.

It could be in the city or region.

So do let's take, Let's take it.

He's ready.

He's right.

All right, so numero numero uno is Lake Erie.

All right.

So for me, Lake Erie has been, a formative part of my growing up.

So for me, very bright.

It's where I met my bride, my family has cottages.

There have been there since birth.

The mommy river is another one.

Has a drainage guy.

Yeah.

It it keeps you in business.

It does.

It is the largest drainage basin.

Is the largest river and the largest drainage basin in the Great Lakes.

What is our system of roads?

It's huge in terms of our roads system and highways design.

You can get anywhere in town in 15 minutes, and that's something that just doesn't happen anywhere.

Yeah.

The Huntington Center.

Run it.

That, is another center of our community where we all come together.

The.

Riverwalk.

I love it.

You know, that is the one thing that we've done in the last 15 years that I think has made a true difference in our city, how we think of ourselves.

And we used to turn our backs to the river, and now we're turning our fronts to the river.

Yep.

The Rosary Cathedral.

Yeah.

All right, Mikey, for me, there is.

There is no more beautiful building in the city.

You go in there, it takes your breath away, and it just it just gorgeous.

And it makes you feel closer to God.

Ernest brewer.

Yes.

Another one of the same as Churchill's market.

Yeah.

Yes.

Classic.

You know, classic.

You can get anything at Churchill.

This is.

A good story.

And it's a good store, and it's a anything, anything you love, anything you want to get to eat.

You can definitely get it at church.

Mike.

Thank you.

So I got one more I must do.

Oh, yeah.

Last one.

Well roundabouts you roundabouts I love I can't any without roundabouts.

Yes you can.

But it definitely makes our city safer.

Yes it's easier.

To get around.

And like you said, there's nothing more important than safety.

And they save lives, period.

And they know.

That it's county engineer Mike Winooski.

Thanks so much for joining us.

When we come back, we'll wrap up.

Thank you.

This mystery guest edition of the 419.

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Vince to posse for Mesozoic.

My mystery guest.

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I did not realize that he was an elected official.

I also I also voted for him.

Yes.

You did.

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