And now the 490 with Gretchen De backer.

Matt, kill em, and Kevin Mullin.

Welcome to the 419.

Powered by and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin Mullen, Gretchen Debacker, and I call them.

It is a special Friday mystery guest edition of the 419.

And Matt, it's your surprise gets right at this point as of right now.

Do they know that they are going to be on the show in just a few minutes?

I it's a dark studio.

I'm hoping they're here.

When did you ask them to come?

Last night.

No, we, this year, we lost correspondents for years in anticipation of this very day.

Why do I feel like you're throwing that message to a particular spot in the studio, just so that they were just.

Just telling my my truth.

They repeat that lie.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yep.

We have been planning this rendezvous for a very long time.

I think it's everyone's fear that their secret guest will not show.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Any guests?

Yes.

Or a really?

Or any one of you?

That's right.

If there is, when you hear the doorbell ring here, it is a sweet relief.

Yes.

It's like a Pavlovian experience.

Yep.

Yeah.

I think my wife was a Croatian basketball player.

Yes.

He was very tall.

Yes.

So tall.

Yeah.

Just kept ringing the bell.

Yeah.

He loved it.

Yeah.

Every time he made a basket, it was weird.

Yeah.

No, my fear with the surprise guest is that either you guys are going to know them like, way too well, and we just dive into deep too fast.

Sure.

Or, like, you're not interested in them at all.

That's usually what it is.

That's right.

I don't any friend of mine.

We're like, I think that, you know, this individual.

And.

Yeah, what are the hints?

Okay, so it is, Well, it's a he.

Okay.

All right.

He is the owner or recipient of three degrees.

Wow.

Okay.

He's not somebody who beat around the bush.

He, in my opinion, is a true community oriented person.

And give us back an important and I think, interesting way.

His expertise is on the cutting edge of, a topic that is on everyone's mind and has sort of saturated, in my opinion.

That is one of the things.

No.

How did I know that?

But they're they have a unique he has a unique perspective on it.

And again, he is, just a brilliant, brilliant guy.

How do you know him?

Because it seems like someone you wouldn't know.

Okay.

That is a fair point.

Managed just like.

Yeah, I never because insult.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, I admittedly, I have been.

We're not close buds, but I think a lot of him, we have a mutual friend, and, I was like, you know, I'd like to have, this individual on.

So that's all I'm getting out of me.

All right.

I think an interesting conversation.

None of our.

It's not.

You're a nice, strong suit.

You're perfectly honest.

But I think that your, be interested and just a fascinating person.

I, I have a thought as to who it is.

Okay.

But I and I know that this is in that category of like, I know them because I see them around the community.

Sure.

I think I've been in rooms with them.

I'm aware of what they do, but I do not know this individual.

So, if it's if it's who I think it is, is not really what we do.

We truly have no idea who this person is.

Yeah, I, I was like, I actually went back and replayed, like, in my head, I'm going back to the clues.

And I was like, oh, I think I think I narrowed it down to a couple of people.

And then I went back and I think the, I think the beating around the bush.

Okay.

All right.

Well we'll see.

Yeah.

This is like the, Penn and Teller, fool us.

Addition of the 400.

And I wish you were the non talking one.

Yeah.

Me too.

I wish you could make you disappear.

I don't I don't think it's Bennett Teller.

God darn.

Yeah.

Hey, tomorrow is Miles's birthday.

Happy birthday.

Yeah.

He's, 28.

Bad.

It feels like it.

I bet I tell people.

So he's nine.

But I tell people that he's not my personality when I was nine.

He's my personality right now as a nine year old.

And it's not appropriate at 44.

No, it's really not appropriate at nine.

Imagine him in fourth grade trying to live with that.

Oh, he I mean he calls me Kevin.

So I just hope that, like, he doesn't call his teachers by my first name.

You get done, you wake up with a cup of Joe every morning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The stock market.

You know, he just just recently started, like, leaving his room in pajamas.

But even, like, as a as a little kid, he was like, no, no, no, I got to get ready for the day.

So he'd, like, wake up, go brush his teeth, put on his clothes.

He's got a pocket square and a jacket.

You know what?

Yeah, he's a bow tie, kid.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The dreaded the street Pickles bus into a beer distributor.

Yeah.

Don't put him on a school bus.

He'll forgot his.

Beer on.

Awesome.

All right.

When we come back, we've got Mat's surprise guest.

Yeah.

And we get to, See if we know who it is.

Yes.

I was going to try to do another smart clue, but I'm all that.

I was thinking.

We're limited.

Yeah, I could use computer assistance.

Would you say that your intelligence is right?

Okay.

Yeah.

You're right.

All right.

We'll be right back here on the 419 with Matt's surprise guest.

Support for the 419 comes from Whetro Wealth Management, where we understand that your financial path is personal.

Advisory services are offered through capital investment advisory services LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra, SIPC.

More information at whetroadvisors.com The 419, powered by WGTE is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Get ready.

Toledo for one nine day is almost here.

Join us April 19th for a live recording of the 419 show.

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Welcome back into the 419, a mystery guest edition.

It's Matt.

Surprise guest.

And it turns out I was right.

Yes, yes, you were.

Which I knew that you would bring it up, because, you know, it does not happen often.

That's true.

And so I'm going to need you guys to write a note that I can take home, to my wife to say I actually don't, because then if I'm right, I should go write a lot of notes.

So don't worry.

No.

Yeah.

No.

That's so next.

Next topic.

Yeah.

Tom Bush, welcome to the show.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for being here.

Yeah.

Thanks for doing this, man.

We get to, fanboy out a little bit on you.

At least I get to you.

So I appreciate you getting up early.

Are you a morning person?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

That's, usually an early start for me.

I've got, for an hour.

Five now.

She just turned five yesterday, and, seven year old.

So we are always up early in seven.

Yeah, that's whenever people ask, how do you do it?

I have a six year old.

The three year old, and, well, now seven year old, he would want me to make sure I made that distinction.

So I'm like, no, it's this is this is how it goes.

Yeah, yeah.

Are there like for me, like I mentioned my, you know, centers nine tomorrow he's mini me.

But like it creeps me out.

Yeah.

Like when I see him do things that are very much me.

Do you see yourself in your kids?

You know, my son's personality is unique unto himself, and it's awesome to see because, you know, it's really cool when it starts to come in so strong.

You're like, oh, you're actually a person and you've got personality.

It's it's, such a joy to watch them figure out the world and, and go through that.

We're doing our usual, we brought you on.

We said your name, and we got to provide no context, as to, what, Tom, in my opinion, you have a unique Toledo story.

You are.

These are my words.

You you're an expert in a burgeoning field of.

I, there's a really important community part of it.

We'll probably get to that in the second segment.

But, Tom, if you were introducing yourself, and talking about sort of your, your origin story, tell me where you're from, and where you grew up.

Yeah.

So the the.

Well, first.

Yeah.

Thanks for having me on.

Yeah.

I appreciate being the show and tell.

Piece of the day.

I grew up in to come see Michigan, which is just over the border here, from where we're sitting.

And, I've always been involved in tech, you know, as a 12 year old, I think the middle school librarian was tired of having me stay after school and hang out in the library because they probably could have gone home at three, and my parents were off work till five.

So I would hang out and play on computers.

And so he ended up getting me a job at the company public library, where I worked at the computer lab they had just installed.

And so I taught, adults as a 12 year old how to use computers.

What does your folks do?

Were they tech oriented?

No.

Nope.

My parents, my dad ran the printing press at, the Toledo, until the Tecumseh Herald.

And then my mom, helped layout books.

That was kind of her, shtick that she did.

So, not neither of them deeply into tech.

My dad, did work for Radio Shack for a period of time, and so, he had a 280, which was my first computer at home and my only computer at home for most of high school, most of my childhood.

So that's why I would stay after school and play with a decent computer that could actually do something.

Do you remember the kind of that first moment where it was like, oh, this, like, this is exciting to me, or I want to know what's behind this, or I need to know how this works for sure.

I mean, it was, that two s.a.t.s sitting out in the middle of nowhere, where we grew up.

And to come see my closest neighbor was two miles away.

So I was literally in the middle of a field.

And my older brother, was my best friend.

And so, you know how siblings are.

So I spent a lot of time alone, and, I like your eyes.

Yeah.

No cable, you know, no TV.

And, so it was kind of a really basic bringing so that that computer was something that was, you know, I was able to take control of and own, and kind of play with.

And so that's what got me excited.

But, I mean, we're talking back in the days when it was dos prompt and literally the excitement was, you could write a program that would cause the words to repeat on the screen over and over again, and you'd be like, yes, I did it.

So this is the you're in the 80s.

90s is is, early, early 90s.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you've done that regression.

Yes I have yeah.

I can't believe that programmer aggression said right as a given.

So I remember seeing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see graphs.

It's just hard to figure out how to get a website to sell.

Say hello world.

Yes.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So that led me to, You know, strange.

I still can't put together a few pieces.

There's some aspects of my, where I tried to troubleshoot computers and didn't know how I was solving these problems.

But as I think the advantage of youth is that our our kids and the reason we always think, oh, the older folks think the kids are still good at tech is because they don't hear it right.

They just sure they don't think they can break it.

They don't know they can break it.

So they just go at it.

And I think I had that kind of, spirit and attitude towards it.

So, I started helping a lot of adults embrace computers and whatnot back in the day, I actually was teaching teachers how to incorporate Yahoo and, you know, the internet into curriculum back in the day, which is funny to come full circle now, where I'm helping teachers incorporate AI into the curriculum.

Now.

And do you still help people with computer stuff and tech stuff?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You can't avoid it.

You know, but time don't you.

From to company to where?

Don't let, Gretchen ruin right?

Yeah.

The trajectory.

I'll go through it pretty quick because, you know, it may not be as exciting, but it's interesting.

From Tecumseh, I the intermediate school districts.

You know, hired me off of my library job.

I worked for the Lenawee County School District, as a coordinator of distance learning while I was still in high school.

And then when I left to go to Michigan State, I left.

It was such a a gap in their situation that they asked me to come back and said, we'll pay for you to finish at eastern.

And so I finished my degree at eastern.

So they paid for me to move closer, to continue to support their techniques.

Yeah, exactly.

You're a considerable young man.

Yeah.

I mean, you're like 19.

Exactly 19 years old.

And I was, you know, I grew up very poor, so I didn't have much.

And so when somebody said, I'll pay for your education, I was like, done.

Yeah, no matter what.

And so I was making, you know, $29,000 a year, doing that.

And then, when I graduate with my bachelor's in computer science, I said, hey, guys, give me $1,000 raise.

You know, make it an even 30.

Good.

No.

Good.

Yeah.

Right.

Right, right.

I'm now a bachelor's in science and computer science, and they said no.

And so I started applying everywhere.

Unfortunately, GE aviation hired, they were doing a big, hiring spree, and they hired me into Grand Rapids, Michigan.

So I moved for them to come see two Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Which was fantastic because I watched Grand Rapids, Michigan go from nobody wants to be downtown to everybody wants to be downtown.

And so it was a really cool to be there for that transition.

And I was making computers to fly airplanes.

And so if you fly on a seven, three, 7 or 7, eight, seven today, some of my software is still flying on those aircraft.

Tom.

Never in any moment did you feel like, what the hell is Tom Bush from the company Michigan doing in this room?

Are you are you just constantly feeding off the new experience, like you mention?

You, not being fearful of breaking it?

Yeah.

Or the exploring intellectually, from an intellectual capacity.

Have you always been like, that was our moment?

Like I'm a fraud and I need to go back there.

So, you know, I, I the the it's called imposter syndrome.

I'm well aware.

Yeah.

And yeah, I can't syndrome.

I never, I never really felt imposter syndrome until I ended up at Amazon.

And I'm sure we'll get to that piece of the story.

When I went to GE, it was almost more, I was intrigued that these older folks were trusting me so much.

You know, if you ever look in a cockpit of a 737, you're going to see a lot of text.

And so the computers that have a lot of text on them, where the, the avionics pieces we were building.

And so at one point, my one of my first projects, they said, oh, well, the military license to build this refueling tanker and you heard it, unfortunately, recently one crashed and that was the, the airplane that I had worked on, some of the avionics.

Fortunately, it was an avionics issue.

Anyway, they said Boeing really wants us to build this big, giant touchscreen display to control all of this refueling equipment.

Can you put together the quote for that?

And I had, you know, come from nowhere.

And I'm like, why are you asking?

I don't even know how to write software at that point.

Yeah.

And that's negotiation.

You did was for $1,000.

Right.

Exactly.

That's just going to be $1,500.

That's what I, you know, I come to a $10 million estimate effectively, and they're like, okay.

And they pass it to Boeing and Boeing says no.

So it wasn't successful.

But, you know, I think one of the things is you find where you're you have a niche and you step into it and you own it.

Right.

And I think there's there's a saying out there that if you spend 100 hours on something, you're actually smarter on that thing than most people.

And I think we don't give ourselves enough credit that when you have been involved in it, if you if you feel that imposter syndrome is because you think other people know, but the reality is you probably know it best.

And so they're these, experts in avionics were relying on me as the newcomer because I had done some graphic graphical programing, and that's the skill they wanted.

And so I was an expert at that in their eyes compared to them, because I've spent, you know, my curriculum in college learning it.

So, you know, and I think another piece of the puzzle, because I got asked to speak at Bgsu recently, and one of the questions was, what was your keys to success in your career?

And it ends up being this find the problem of your boss.

Solve that problem for your boss.

Make your boss look good and life gets really easy and your success comes quickly.

That's well said.

Yeah, it is like a shockingly simple concept.

I mean, it's not it's not in practice.

It's not as easy as it sounds.

They're right.

But that idea of take care of the people around you, and don't worry about yourself.

That's not a natural resting position, because self-preservation, like this idea of, I'm gonna put my boss ahead of me isn't where everybody's at, is that?

I mean, obviously, you talk about, you know, your parents and what they did.

I mean, is this a, community growing up?

The small town community thing?

Yeah.

And I think I benefited from, being in band, you know, to take it back to the basics, and to come see, Jimmy Rice.

He's still around and is a really great guy.

He would bring in, Doctor Tim Lights and Hauser, who?

And I probably butchered his last name, but Doctor Tim was a leadership expert, and he would go to band students, and he would bring in these auditoriums of band students, and he would do leadership training to these students.

And so I benefited from his in fact, I use one of his, gimmicks, pretty regularly in when I'm doing big room spiels.

And, so I think that little exposure then I was the drum major and I got to go to Drum Major camp, which also exposed you to leadership.

You know, like if you're doing drills in the sun, don't make the whole band stand into the sun.

You reverse the band, you stand in the sun.

Right?

And it's kind of that servant leadership attitude.

And I think that really helped infuse me with a lot of like, empathy and think of for others.

And, you know, a few coaching moments where people said, you know, don't worry about the raise, worry about the work, and the raise will come.

Yeah.

And things like make your boss look good and they'll take care of you.

And, you know, some of these just, like, don't sit back and wait for somebody to give you the next problem solve.

Be looking around for the problem to solve.

Yeah.

So where did you go after.

Jeez.

So 15.

And what was your instrument?

Tuba.

Oh, tuba which I marched at Michigan State, which was amazing.

For the two years I was at Michigan State and not a great tuba or sousaphone.

Yeah, well, sousaphone was marched at, at Michigan State, but tuba was.

I was actually pretty good.

My dad played tuba.

And when you have a tuba at the house, you're going to play, too.

But my brother played tuba because it's just a big to go.

That's just one thing.

Tuba washing.

Okay.

So yeah, I, I apologize on behalf of the sousaphone.

Right.

Right there in northwest Ohio says, yeah, rolling over in his grave.

Yes.

I mean, speaking of games, we did have a tuba trio and we did.

Our big concert moment was we played a funeral and, yeah, strangely enough, yeah.

Three tubas playing is actually quite appropriate.

Feels like when it comes to that kind of ceremony.

But three D was playing.

I was doing my first band.

That's that's, It was all recorded.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got to do it.

It's, time I do enough.

I'm going to go back to Gretchen's, good question, which is the first time ever for the show we usually edit her out completely.

Yeah.

And we're looking we actually brought you on to replace her entirely with air, but we'll get to that.

What the.

You do have.

That's a fascinating component.

Our mutual friend Steve Hansen and I talked about the Boeing experience.

And from there, though, there was a pretty sizable leap in my opinion, for, again, even more so from a guy from southeast Michigan.

You jump from Boeing or this experience to or from G2.

Yeah.

Well, what's great about GE is one of the they would even say this back in the day.

They would say that, you know, one of the things that we produce most is leaders, right.

And so more than the products, because they were in all kinds of different domains plastics, oil and gas, aviation and, so that, leadership training that I got from GE really helped me and helped me continue to my career.

So I moved up the corporate ladder.

I became a master blackbelt in Six Sigma, which was one of the criteria to become an executive.

And, you know, funny enough, I tell my team who, we at Actual Reality Technologies are consultancy.

We build by the hour.

And so my team has the book hours, and I tell them I was trying to get to the executive level because you didn't have to log your hours anymore.

Oh, yeah.

That's right.

This is one of one of the all of a second one was that you got to fly business class if it was longer than four hours.

So I was like, these are the two other motivators I care as a for, what it is.

Yeah.

And so that is so relatable.

I can't tell you how much the I, it provides me to want to achieve so I can relieve myself of admin duties.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

And up to that, that's an important part of it.

But I've got to hate it so much.

So anyway, so I have worked my way up the corporate ladder.

And then I was on an executive grooming program where they would, fly me around to the different companies that was solving technical issues, in oil and gas and, and aviation and, plastics and health care.

And, Amazon ended up poaching me off of that program.

So they discovered me mainly because of my massive black belt and Six Sigma.

Fortunately, the guy who hired me was, what is a master black belt in Six Sigma?

So Six Sigma is process improvement.

It's basically, it's like lean is a technique of reducing waste in a process.

And Six Sigma is a bunch of statistical analysis.

To be able to find the exact thing you should focus on in order to make the biggest improvement, to save time to optimize, who gives you that distinction?

What is that?

How is that?

It's a certification process.

Yo a number of tests you have to take.

Yeah.

We were the guest.

I would have asked you.

Yeah, I am Six Sigma.

Did you go back?

And I'm wondering.

Oh, girl, she's one sigma.

No.

Negative one.

So you could just, she identified with the.

You should put something, in your mouth or not.

So the guy who hired me at Amazon who found me was effectively looking for this kind of skill set because the challenge she was facing was, how do large enterprises migrate to the cloud?

And so talk about an interesting interview.

The first interviewing with Amazon is interesting because it's a full day of interviews, and they're asking you a bunch of different questions.

You have to show up with a litany of stories of how you solve different problems in the real world and things like that.

My first day at Amazon, I literally walked into a conference room and I was handed a dry erase marker by my boss, and he said, great, you're here.

Facilitate this.

We're going to invent the new way that we migrate to the cloud.

Now to tell you, I didn't know AWS that well because I was my head were in the clouds.

I was thinking about aviation and avionics.

I had not explored the cloud in AWS, and it's a whole thing unto itself.

Literally the week before my interview, I discovered, hey, you could get certified in this.

And so I sat for the, you know, I on Monday, my interview was the next Monday.

On Monday I discovered that.

So I Monday I signed up to take the test on Friday, started studying, took the test for what was called the AWS Certified Solution architect, passed the test and so that on Monday, when I sat for that interview, I was able to say, oh, do you have my resume?

Oh, here's a new updated version, right?

Like since I left here.

Yeah, yeah, since we last spoke, I'm now certified in your, you know, your technology.

So that's another play that's interesting.

Always be interested in the company that you're going that's even even if it's only one week of study to the idea of walking in day one and being the person at the front of the room, right, right.

To say, I mean, the fear I have.

I'm I'm a relative extrovert, but the fear I still have of having to write on a board in front of other people, like, I can't imagine.

Well, in here we had and I didn't know these people.

So, you know, the intimidation maybe was a little bit down in the excitement of having a new job, but I didn't.

These were the experts at AWS, right.

And it had been the problem that we were set there to solve was it took two or more years to migrate a corporate data center to the cloud.

They needed it to be less than six months.

And so in that time, why why did they need it to be in less than six months?

Because if you take too long, the company companies lose interest, right?

And and it slows, it becomes molasses and it slows since loads and slows and you don't ever finish the project.

And for our, our audience, what is AWS?

AWS is Amazon Web Services okay.

So AWS is the largest cloud provider in the in the world.

And the cloud is basically data centers.

So when you hear about data centers coming in, that's also what is running the cloud.

We're talking with Tom Bush with actual reality technologies.

Let's take a break.

When we come back, we're going to hit some more interesting things.

Yeah.

No, no, no, but we are going to hit fast forward and kind of jump ahead.

I want to talk about actual reality technologies and I as well, I and data centers, we got a lot to offer.

You can come to my office and help me with my computer 100%.

She's got no screensaver.

She wants to put up.

It's the flying toaster.

We'll be right back on the 491.

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I'm Dani Miller and welcome to the Point.

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Welcome back into the 419.

It's a mystery guest edition.

We're talking with Matt's mystery guest, Tom Bush, with actual reality technologies.

You've got a I mean, it's a fascinating sort of journey to get here.

And I know we're going to the gloss over a bunch of the time at Amazon, which I don't want to do because it's fascinating.

But let's but it just in the interest of time, let's jump to more of the present.

So you leave Amazon, start your own thing.

Yeah.

What what is that.

And why.

Yeah I mean like Amazon's got to be the pinnacle of a of a childhood tech nerd.

Absolutely.

Are they, are they on the downslope or they're falling apart.

So no you got that.

Well you cou no I don't think so I see I see bright, bright futures.

And I still have a lot of stock in them.

So I got to say they're going to be great, right.

Yeah.

Right Jim.

And yeah I mean what ended up happening, it was a very interesting set of circumstances.

I was five years with AWS, the cloud portion, the last 2 or 3 years I was actually I moved myself from the cloud to Amazon corporate finance.

And the reason was I was leaning into my master black belt and I'm like, I want to see if I can actually change enough, and improve enough things that I can take credit for a piece of the stock price.

Like, I want to say that ten cent change I was because I did something right.

Tom.

This you I know that I've asked a similar question already, before.

And maybe this is how it's myself in my level of insecurity.

But, you know, Michigan State, Eastern Michigan, certainly fine institutions you are now, at least in the United States, at the top of the food chain, from a tech and intellectual space.

And you are still chipping away.

I mean, what is there a competition in this?

Are you are you are you competing against your colleagues or are you competing against the problems to solve?

What's the balance between those two things?

I think I learned early on setting a goal and achieving the goal.

You know, it's it's a strange moment in my life that at age 13, I set out my entire life right.

And that's I don't know, many people do that, but I set all these, like, milestone murderers, right?

There you go.

Think right.

And I drink black coffee, which also says something, but, the, you know, you say I set all these goals for myself of like, oh, when I'm 30, I'm going to have, you know, this amount of salary, I'm going to do these things.

And when I'm 40, I'm going to, you know, and, you know, the interesting thing about setting goals is that often you achieve them, right?

Like, and you don't necessarily when they're these big, you know, out there goals, you don't necessarily know every path of how you got there.

But suddenly you look back and you're like, oh, I intended to achieve this.

And and I did.

And often for me, I've been very lucky and, that a lot of these goals came way sooner than I thought they would.

So I'm sitting at Amazon.

I've basically made their finance team autonomous, after two, 2 to 3 years of work.

And, you know, this new thing came around called ChatGPT, right.

And I'm sitting there, I've been writing lots of books with ChatGPT.

And what I mean by that is I've been having ChatGPT idea books with me, and I have ADHD, so I didn't finish any of them.

Sure.

Yeah.

You'll find a safe place here to talk about that.

But one of the books that I decided to say, you know, I was worried about ChatGPT stealing my data.

So I said, hey, let's write this fictional book.

Fictional book.

Right.

Making sure it knew it was fiction.

About this guy named Tom Bush, this character named Tom Bush.

But then I started reading it.

My entire real life story.

Right.

And it was it was a thought that, well, like that example I gave in the first segment about going leaving Michigan State and going to Eastern Michigan.

My thought was, well, if I start my full story, I can then explore at that college moment when I made that life decision, what would have happened if Tom Bush stayed at Michigan State and let it write some of the story about that alternate time universe, right.

So I could another dimension.

I could study the multiverse through this activity.

What ended up happening, and this is what changed the whole trajectory, was that when I got to time now, I realized that this little sliver of a lie had started to grow, and I was lying to myself.

And that lie was effectively my give back story.

I didn't have one.

And so almost simultaneously, when that when I came to that realization, I was like, and in my story I had made up basically, because I, because of my growing up situation, my lie was effectively Tom was buying these poor homes and renovating them really nicely.

And but still renting them very cheaply.

Right.

That was my give back story that I had lied in there.

But, knowing that I didn't have necessarily the funds or the ambition to renovate all these houses, I'm like, well, what am I going to do?

I got to do something.

And almost simultaneously, and I would say, as literal as the word simultaneous can be, I was coming to that realization, figuring out what am I going to do to give back?

And the bitwise story fell apart.

Now my brain was in Seattle.

I had not been paying attention to Toledo at all and but living here.

But I lived here in Miami.

Yeah.

And, when it was weird because I hadn't really been watching news either.

But here was bitwise.

They described what it was, and they said they were a week from opening their doors and they're shutting down.

And I was like, what a great idea.

I loved the concept of like, hey, how do we use tech to help lift up a whole population?

How do we how do we give people different pathways in life?

And I had been experimenting already with myself on augmented intelligence.

How do we use AI to super power the human, to really energize the human and so I knew with my augmented intelligence concept that I could actually, you know, revolutionize what bitwise was doing and do it faster, do it better, do it bigger, and so I came on the scene basically reaching out to the person who was on the news from bitwise saying, hey, if you need a like, don't let this die.

It's right for Toledo.

Who cares if somebody in Fresno committed fraud?

Let's do it in Toledo.

If you need a fire, I'll be the fire.

Well, that person said I'm out of here because, I just got fired.

I'm heading back to California, where they're from.

And so, they said, talk to this guy named LaShawn, who is our mutual connection.

And, when I reached out to LaShawn, I said, well, you were a week from opening.

You must have all the books.

You must have the students.

You must have the funding.

Like you must have the building, the furniture, everything must be ready to go because you're a week for opening doors.

He's like, yeah, we got all that.

I said, well, why, why aren't we going to do this?

Like, why don't we just do it ourselves?

He's like, well, I don't know what to do next.

And I said, I don't know either, but let's figure it out together.

Yeah.

And so then that started my partnership with Sean and Lee.

So I launched Actual Reality Technologies as the for profit company.

And then I launched a nonprofit called empowered.

I, and I actually was still working at Amazon and did a conflict of interest form with them saying, hey, I'm going to launch this nonprofit that is going to basically help, individuals who are, not traditional tech folk get tech related skill and jobs.

But nobody's going to hire them because of the paper ceiling, which is they don't have a degree.

And so therefore I need to create this for profit company that will take the risk on these individuals and hire them in.

And my consultancy, actual reality technology is while we are solving business problems and automating business and doing a lot with, manufacturing as well.

You know, at its thesis is we need to become profitable enough so that we can take a risk.

And on these individuals who we've trained up through Empower Day, I put them in here and then have them consult with companies so the companies see how good they are.

And then my contracts basically have no protection.

It says if you like them, poach them like take them.

Yeah.

Pay them more than I can please.

Like I'm a vector.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So we're creating this this new path.

And so that's our re-envisioning of it.

And we're kind of at the early days of it, and we've kind of also used empowered AI to start to grow other aspects.

So one thing we did, I was probably first in the world to take, AI to a homeless shelter.

So we went to the Cherry Street mission, and we actually intersected a six week long class where they're teaching these adult learners how to use computers.

I mean, the basics of copy and paste.

And we said, well, can we get four hours where we show them how to use ChatGPT to improve their resume, to get a job?

Because I want to run all of I'm testing secretly.

I'm testing all of these hypotheses.

Like if I show them that it's a, you know, that they can do resume stuff, will they forever think ChatGPT only does resume?

Will they have the creativity to think across all these different dimensions of how you can use a chat solution like that?

Will they get it?

I can't even talk to my own parents about what I do every day without them tuning me out.

So am I going to lose half the class?

You know?

So we had whole contingencies about what do we do to entertain a class that has been, you know, this, this engaged here.

And, you know, the crazy part was I was wrong on most vectors.

Yeah, they absolutely got what we were giving them, right?

They understood exactly what this thing could do and were super excited about it.

And the thing that I didn't foresee that had me literally crying in my car afterwards was the confidence level.

When you use a chat solution, suddenly you feel more confident because every question you have the answer.

Now, Google used to be that, but Google, the problem was that you had to.

Then you would show you a bunch of links and you had to go read it all.

So it was a very time consuming.

So it wasn't a moment where I could get an answer instantly, and I couldn't have it reflected in a way that I could understand it.

You know.

And we went through and we taught these individuals, you know, like, if you don't understand the concept, tell it to explain it to you like you're a fifth grader, right?

It's, this same thing, right?

That this experience, although, not totally aligned, isn't that this story isn't dissimilar to yours, right?

I mean, tech brought you that that that pulled you out of it.

You said that you had a relatively poor right.

Right.

And it was you embracing of tech.

You use that as it's an empowering tool to get from where you are.

Exactly.

This is the next.

This is the next version of it.

Exactly.

You weren't in a shelter.

It's faster and it's democratized.

Yeah.

That's the different skill set.

Like I had to nerd out in order to get what I needed and not the two.

But you embraced.

All right?

I did it all the way.

And how could people how do students find empowered AI?

How, how if they're if they if a mom or dad has a kid that may be interested in this or think that they would benefit from it, how do they find you to get involved it?

Yeah.

So if you go to empowered AI dawg, you can see the types of programs we put on.

So and some of this comes from a thesis like help with your website because I can help you.

All right.

Yeah.

There you go.

Sure.

We have AI building it now, but, yeah.

It's good.

So empower AI is putting on lots of different things, and I'll tell you one of the theses, we, you know, one of the funny moments and I'll, I want to also put this out there.

I think Northwest Ohio is the most welcoming startup community in the US.

Because within a week, literally within a week, I had, customer conversations.

I hadn't even I didn't even know what I was doing yet.

Right.

And I was already being put in front of customers.

I had, the opportunity to, I got an email from John Houston, lieutenant governor of Ohio at the time, within one week of saying, hey, I'm going to do something in the community, John.

He said, send me an email.

Hey, Tom, I hear what you're doing, I love it.

I think it's great.

I respond by saying, hey man, I'm super excited.

I'm going to Toledo's tech ecosystem and here we go.

It's going to be great.

And I send that message and I'm like, oh crap.

Like, I don't even know what our tech ecosystem looks like.

That's right.

And so fortunately, no one is right.

And and so that helped me set the goal.

Okay.

I said it to the lieutenant governor.

Now I guess I got to do it like, okay, what does it mean?

I started figuring out what are where are we at?

I had to create a website called Toledo Dot directory.

If you go out there or told der.com, you, will see all of the tech oriented companies listed because I would constantly be talking to people and I'd say I'm to lead this tech ecosystem.

They do.

We have a tech ecosystem, right?

Yeah.

Right.

And so I had to be like, yeah.

And I'm encountering them all the time.

And if I would ask them, how many do you think we have?

People would generally guess at 510.

Exactly.

And so we have 150, oh one or more because I keep finding more and more.

And we have some startups that are constantly starting up.

This use of what you're doing with empowered AI in your company is so interesting to me, because it's, it's the use of or the training on ChatGPT for students that is one of the most non worrying ways that I've heard of the use of that technology.

Because so often we hear, you know, that's going to take people's jobs away, that it's going to eliminate the need for artists or for creative people, because you can just put something into a computer and have them write a book for you, or create a graphic for you, or those kinds of things.

So how do you square is part of your plan to sort of square those things, to take away some of the fear of the, of the use of it.

In addition to that, what is your belief in the the current reliability of the information that we get from these AI generated searches?

Great question.

We start with the last one.

So when I say I made Amazon's finance team autonomous, specifically in the controls space of finance, it had nothing to do with firing people and had everything to do with getting the finance folks out of the assembly line of finance and into the business office of Finance.

If you looked at Amazon's finance team when I showed up and the reason I changed my trajectory, because I was going to make all these impacts and change the stock price, and then I saw how Excel driven things were and how it wasn't as automated as you would expect being a high tech company.

That made me change my like, well, how do we get the the human out of the drudgery of finance, which is passing Excel spreadsheets around?

Sure.

And so what our mantra became, we need to be able to allow Amazon to continue to scale without having to hire more finance folks.

And so it's about creating productivity within the individual, within the role, and then automating a bunch of the work so that they don't have to do that so that they can.

Because why do you have a finance person in a company?

It's so that they can give business advice to the, you know, the business person about how to best utilize the funds as they come in, what's cash flow.

So if they're always busy building the reports, they're never going to get to that advising part, right?

And so God forbid they think about what next.

Exactly, exactly.

And so what we're going to see, is that yes, there will be some struggle in the sphere piece.

And so yes, I'm attacking it from a position well, it's going to be here.

Let's figure out how to make it so that superpowers, humans, and let's all figure out how we evolve with it, versus have it, you know, overcome us with this tech wave.

And if we don't embrace it that way, we will become, you know, the tech divide will get to get bigger, right?

But your your position on, your philosophy on, on, on, on human empowerment using AI is fabulous.

It's amazing.

I never heard anybody say anything like that, but the billionaire oligarchs, right.

They think.

I think oh, great.

Automate, automate.

Nice.

So I can get rid of these people.

Yeah.

So again it's you know, it's I think how do you do you are you concerned about that.

Are you concerned about getting your philosophy into the hands of the people that are making decisions about workers?

I think there's, a little bit of a and a little bit of be, what I, when I, I was tackling this problem from, hey, I need a tech ecosystem, Toledo's tech ecosystem.

If I'm going to do that, I can't import all of the talent.

Right.

So I have to grow my own.

Right?

And when I looked at all of the available capacity.

Now, when you empower an individual, the thesis I was working under is I can make someone billable and from a consulting perspective, billable within two weeks.

That was the theory I was testing.

And I literally I ended up going to Bowling Green State University.

Grabbing seven random students didn't ask them what their skill set didn't interview them.

It's usually illegal, right?

I didn't grab them.

Thank you for calling that out there.

Sure.

So, invited them to come participate and, didn't interview them, didn't ask for their skill set.

I just was relying.

I wanted to test that.

Could ChatGPT basically fill in the gap.

And we built the thesis was, can we build a iPhone app in three months?

And I had never built an iPhone app.

Being an aviation guy, my apps were way more boring and I was intimidated by an iPhone app.

But I said, in this age of AI, let's see if ChatGPT can help guide us into that.

And so we did that.

We built a racing app, an app that helped a push, career Cup racer, win.

He was he was tagged to come in third for the season.

And then we gave him the app one week prior to the last race of the season.

He used our app and it basically differentiated and made him, augmented him.

What was it telling him to like?

I mean, like, turn left?

Well, right, in this case, it's not left turns, but in, he, the story goes like this effectively on the, qualification.

Race, the Friday race where they're basically figuring out where they're going to line up.

He, the car drove so poorly that he thought it was himself, and he looked at how our app was telling him to set up his car, and he looked how his highly paid engineer had said it, said to set up the car, and they were vastly different.

And so he showed them to the engineer and said, and the engineer said, oops, he had screwed something up.

Right.

And Mark said, well, forget your, settings, just set it up how the app has said and he said the car drove the best it ever driven.

That's crazy.

I do think I excuse the hyperbole here, but I think, if it again excuse the hyperbole, but if we're going to war, right, meaning like, we want to drive as a flyover state.

And tech is thought of as this evil empire.

The only way to to survive is by training people how to use their rifle.

And I think that's exactly what what you propose exactly.

And kids and young people are the answer, and the kids deserve it.

We're talking about Tom Bush with actual reality technologies and powered AI.

How do people find more information on both of these?

Yeah.

So, actual reality technologies, if you're a business and you want to have automation and, it's actual reality that tech is like very quickly, is there a way for other tech companies or people in the industry to, to gather?

Is there a is there a way for people to network to each other and find out these other.

Yeah.

Great question.

So, through empowered AI, we actually host on the second and fourth Tuesdays, we host, Tech Night at toll House.

So toll House is a local place here in Toledo.

So you can find the gathering of tech people, usually 50 to 60 people are showing up to it now.

And so that's an opportunity network.

Yeah.

Right.

And so they're all augmented with AI for sure.

Yeah.

And then, you know, one of the cool things I just want to put a short plug in, for empowered AI, we've been helping the K-12 system embrace it.

We have a program called Young Empowered Authors, where we're helping 7 to 12 year olds get published on Amazon.

Within a very short period of time.

And we're going to be collecting them in May for a publisher's party.

So all of our classes, we will have the most, young kids collected, young authors in one location, in the world.

I wish I had that time.

Thank you so much.

We are.

We are out of time.

We need, like, two more hours.

Right?

I want to do the same way we did with Lucas.

LKY, I'd love to do a meta conversation.

Has a great idea with you at times.

Let's see.

So we're going to do this.

So we don't often tease social media stuff.

But we did.

We ran out of time.

Did not it time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

So we're going to, we're we're going to break.

When we come back, we'll have Carl Mitchell.

But if folks want to hear Tom's, Gretchen's wacky quiz there, you have to find it on social media.

There you go.

Thank you so much for joining.

This time, we'll be right back.

Thanks so much.

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Welcome back into the 419.

Powered by GTI.

Just wrapped up a conversation with Tom Bush from Actual Reality Technologies.

Matt.

Surprise guest.

There are some incredible voices around our community.

Tom Bush being one of them.

But we also now joined by one of the voices around us, a, podcast host here on see what I did there?

Yeah.

Kevin.

Carl Mitchell.

Pharrell, thank you so much for joining us.

Oh, thank you for having me.

Tell us about your podcast.

Well, the Voices of Legacy is a program that was initiated for the purpose of sharing stories of lives well lived.

Interesting stories.

Hopefully.

We've interviewed most of the mayors in and surrounding, Toledo, most of local law enforcement and then individuals that people have never heard of that have had awesome lives.

From the first centenarian of, last year here in Lucas County who had this is just a plethora of information.

So you've been on the show?

Yeah.

I never get a good one.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness, I have nothing to do with that stuff.

But, Yeah, that that that's that the the idea and the impetus came from this being of the cloth and clergy.

I've done over 200 some odd funerals over, my 20 plus year career in, ministry.

And most of the time I never got a chance to know the person personally.

So not be morbid, but it's an opportunity for people to tell their own stories.

Yes, sir.

And everyone does have an interesting story.

Oh my goodness.

Yes.

Yeah.

And what's your church?

The Bible way.

Toledo Historic Bible way.

Been around since 19 and 63, incorporated 64.

What what was the impetus for you to start this podcast?

And, and to go down this journey with you actually came to support somebody else that was, starting a podcast because they were kind of nervous about doing a podcast.

And also they knew that I'd been in broadcasting for some time.

So I came for their meeting and I got a call, after that meeting, helping him out, you know, and asking questions, pertinent questions and, and so forth.

And they said, well, we'd like to talk to you about going with the talk to the guy that came with.

Yeah, sure.

But, yeah, that's pretty much how I started.

I had no intentions.

Right.

Barry.

Broadcast on, you know, some other networks.

But it's been it's been a blast.

I I'm I'm enjoying it.

I've always been a fan of public, media so as to.

Are you are you a lifelong Toledo one?

I was born and raised in Toledo up until about 16, and I'm.

I'll be 55 this year.

So I spent most of my life actually in the South.

We're in the South, North Carolina, South Carolina.

Yeah, yeah.

What what brought you back to Toledo?

This is too much sun.

The my boy people passing away, unfortunately, and inheriting, properties and then the responsibility of the ministry.

So, came back to help with the ministry.

Can you talk a little bit about what the responsibility of the ministry means to you?

Oh, it means a lot.

We feed the hungry, we clothe the naked.

We do all those things on a regular basis.

I'm also the chaplain of the Buffalo Soldiers people.

I've heard of that.

And we do the same thing there.

So actually doing the work, being the hands and feet of God, out in the community and not just proselytizing.

Anybody can do that.

But showing people, that love that causes those conversations to happen, hopefully towards change lives.

You've you've had the opportunity to tell a lot of stories through your podcast.

Oh, yes.

What are what are some of the stories that, as folks, you know, come visit GTalk, go to the voices around is find your podcast.

What are some of the stories that that people are going to come find that that you were most excited to tell or maybe most surprised about?

Probably the centenarian.

She she shared something at the very end of that podcast that they shocked all of us.

She had been to every continent on earth.

Oh, wow.

And that's saying something.

Yeah.

Three little.

Well, yeah.

This earth is flat, so it's easy to.

Wow.

Oh, boy.

That's a whole nother podcast.

Yeah.

Coast to coast and, But anyhow.

I was, I was surprised, I was, like, really amazing.

And she was a school teacher as well, so that was pretty good.

And then the sheriff of Wood County, he was exceptional.

I was, surprised.

It was a very good in some of the promised, interviews that we have coming up, some of our state leaders, one that's retiring.

But, yeah, there's been so many good conversations.

We're almost to 50.

Programs rather, and there's been a lot of really interesting conversations.

Well worth binge listening if you if you like.

Where do you get the skill set to do these, to do the interviews?

The jurors have a natural curiosity.

Do you practice?

How do you do it so well?

I like to say it's that because it is to a certain degree.

But I've always been a fan of talk radio.

My whole life I used to listen to, not to Namedrop Bruce Williams.

I remember being a kid, calling into Bruce Williams, thinking I was going to get in trouble.

But, if you don't know who that is talking that, Sally Jessy Raphael came out of that show.

Yeah.

I've always been a fan, and and the engagement from, the man I hate to, Larry King to Rush Limbaugh, all these people that were able to communicate ideas and get people to talk and and express themselves in ways that you don't normally hear.

Yeah.

I just love that.

I love there's there is such a skill set and a gift to be like one person on a microphone, talking to no one and having them like, I mean, I and this is where, you know, political beliefs aside, you look at what, you know, Rush Limbaugh was able to do, Larry King's, you know, was able to do the ability to talk into a microphone and have the person on the other end feel like you're gauging with whether you're talking to me.

And I'm I want to talk back to you, even though I know you can't hear me.

Yeah.

It's hours.

Yeah.

Do it for hours on end.

Yeah.

So for I think four hours is usually a slot for it.

Right.

And I do think that it's easy to, And while we all are getting to experience in some ways, yeah, the amount of work it takes.

Oh, yeah.

And really the amount of listening, it's listening.

That's the gift that you got to kind of care, even if you don't agree with whom you're talking to.

Yeah.

And that that works better than anything else.

My mentor right now in media, Mr.

Fred Lefevre, he's been on the radio here in Toledo for over 40 years.

And Buffalo Soldier as well.

Yeah he is.

Yeah.

And man, he's good.

He's good.

Yes.

He's a friend.

Has this amazing gift that I'll, I'll go back and sort of like think about the last 60s.

And I'm like, that was three words that he just strung into 60s or more.

But like it's but it's interesting how he does it.

So does your ministry give you the opportunity to meet people that you want to have on your podcast?

Sometimes, yes.

Yes, absolutely.

Because we're very engaged in local, I hate to say politics, but we have to we have to, you know, go to city council meetings, we have to go to school board meetings and things of that nature.

So, yeah, we run into all kinds of folks from every political, aspect that, they're just more interesting, I think, than they know.

Yeah, because we know the persona and that leads us back to the voices of legacy.

I try to get past the persona.

That's what we see on television all the time.

Who are you?

How did you get to that office?

What brought you to you know, we do this every year.

What is your who is your dream guest?

Who is someone that you just, you know, you could retire the day you have that interview?

I don't know that I'll ever do that.

But however, I have some, problems I so want to name drop.

But I have some promise.

Really big interviews, from people that are in extremely high offices now that I met before they were over there.

One that's retiring, one that's still serving now.

And we have to be careful.

Even who were interviewing, especially on, public media in regards to whether they're running or not, we are well aware.

Yes.

Yes.

But nevertheless, there are some that are coming that are very exciting.

Yeah.

Cool.

Talk to us about public media.

Why is is this station, this network so important to Toledo?

We want to keep public media public.

It's great that we can increase in and and donations and maybe even some advertisement.

But however, I grew up with, Sesame Street and Electric Company and all of that stuff and that I don't believe that day has gone, but we have opportunity as a community to support our public media, to keep it public so that it serves everybody, even Doctor Who.

I don't know who ever watched Doctor Who back in the day.

British people.

Yes.

Volumes.

And you heard the music and you saw the times we were in the mean.

That's good stuff.

That's right.

It serves everybody.

So it is important.

How often is your podcast released and where can people find it?

Every other Thursday we have, I think Miss Holt coming up, on this Thursday.

But every other Thursday, the Voices of Legacy podcast, available online.org.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

I'm excited to check out, Gretchen's podcast with you.

Yeah.

So happy hunting for that.

That's right.

We'll be right back to wrap up this Friday edition of the 490.

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Welcome back into the 419 as we wrap up our mystery guest edition.

As is always the case.

Yeah.

And that the authors portion of that working with students, was one of my, one of my must do bullet points.

And we got some.

The tramps.

Oh, he's he's so interesting.

We'll talk to him.

We didn't talk about data centers.

We didn't.

We didn't really like.

I wanted to dive in, but people want to know more about to to come to Michigan.

And we really leaned into that.

That's right.

My great grandparents lived in, to come see me.

Yeah.

You know, the things I don't care about, that's that's that's what the top.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it was a really handsome guy that played for Tecumseh's high school team in their indoor team.

And he was really good too.

I loved I, so I hate to come to you because of this guy.

Isn't that guy.

He was really good and, like, just outrageously handsome.

Was he also named Matt?

I don't know, I never I was like, who is this person possibly.

Why does he exist with me in this room?

That's right.

But incredible conversation.

A lot of cool things happen in the very, Well done.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

No.

And then again, the voices around his podcast series here at Wjct is awesome.

We've got our spirit as well.

Yeah.

And it's the community telling the community stories.

Of course, if you missed any part of today's show, you can catch it.

7 a.m.

on YouTube, 3 p.m.

on FM 91 and Toledo, Brian Defiance and Lima, 6 p.m.

on Connect channel 30.4 online Dawgs the 419 or download the new and improved app to catch your favorite episodes of the 419.

Thanks to our guests for joining us and thanks to you for being here as well.

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Thank you.