Now the 490 with Gretchen de Bakker might kill them.

And Kevin Mullin.

Welcome to the 419 powered by GT, presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin Mullin.

Gretchen de Becker.

I kill em.

It is a mystery guest edition of the 419.

And this is always the the most mysterious of mystery guest editions.

Because, now is the moment that Matt realizes that he was supposed to invite a mystery guest and that people.

Start texting someone.

Who's texting people.

It's your mystery guest, Matt.

Yes.

It is.

And I need about ten minutes.

He the mystery guest this week, but he is a mystery guest next week, so it's going to compound.

That.

I love the look on man's face right now.

Like, you know, you've seen this.

Here's the thing.

I like to keep the mystery guest, a mystery to everyone, including myself.

Yeah, it's almost the last minute.

Yeah.

And so excited.

Yeah, yeah.

That's right.

Yes.

Yeah.

No.

That's great.

I have a buddy, then I think I'm Kevin.

I don't know if you know this individual.

Gretchen, I know that you're a big fan, of said person.

Okay.

Is a Taylor Swift.

They just do not agree.

No, they look similar to Taylor Swift.

My words.

Oh, and let's see, how would I describe this person?

I can't remember when I met it's.

Man.

Okay.

I can't remember when I met him.

But the breadth of things that this person is interested in, is limitless.

He is by no means a stereotype.

He is an athlete.

He is a downtown loiterers my words.

I think he's a leader in a myriad of ways.

He's a good sense.

I think he is.

I'll just leave the clues.

And you guess that's how this goes.

He's just an interesting person in every manner of ways.

How do you know him?

I just said moments ago.

I'm not sure how we met him.

Oh, right.

You did say that.

I don't listen.

I he is, he he understands the Italian culture more than most Italian.

Yes.

He downtown Loiterers.

Yeah.

Understands the Italian.

Culture.

Yep.

I would say that he brought bowls to a party.

A Marco.

No, that's a good guess, though.

I get it, I get it.

I don't know what kind of athlete he is.

Oh, that's.

Right.

Maybe.

Yeah.

He's more humor.

Yeah, yeah.

Cajun fighting.

Definitely.

I don't know if you saw what Pat did to local pizza.

I'm just kidding.

We're looking for a sponsorship.

I think you're gonna be thrilled.

And.

Yeah, I think the other the two of you.

I do think, you know, this individual, just the amount of things that they've done in a relatively short life.

You know, the image, is fascinating.

Okay.

Yeah.

Do you have any idea?

I've got nothing.

Okay.

Yeah.

And this is one of those where, like, the person's going to come around the corner, like during the commercial break, and I'll be like, I'm an idiot.

I knew that person.

Yeah, well, you know.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, we can do that.

We don't even need.

I didn't have a guest.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

I just want to tell you the show's importance.

It's such a valid.

Yeah.

Like that.

Matt could just pick completely random things, and then he's going to scroll through his phone and say, all right.

Yeah.

Who do I know that's ever walked downtown that has ever eaten Italian food?

Not everyone say food.

You just said the person is Italian.

That's right.

And the person was.

In the bowls.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, let's take a break.

When we come back, we will figure out not only who, but if Matt actually.

Has mystery guests.

Yeah, we'll take a break.

We'll be right back on the 419 powered by W GT.

Support for the 419 comes from, We Trow Wealth Management, where we understand that your financial path is pers advisory services are offered through Capital Investment Advisory Services LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra and CPC.

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Supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT Mystery Guest Edition.

And it's Matt's mystery guest.

And as I predicted, the guest during the commercial break walks around the corner and I was like, man, I should have gotten that.

Please welcome to the show, our friend Nick.

I think I'd welcome Nick.

Thanks for having me excited.

I now get the clues.

Yes.

Downtown Loiterers.

You've got a building.

I think I see at least one downtown, Italian culture.

Why don't you explain to people where, they where the Italian culture comes from?

So I get a lot where people actually think I'm Italian, but I'm not.

I'm Lebanese, German, Norwegian, Syrian.

But I lived in Italy for five years, speak Italian, have Italian citizen citizenship.

Married in Italian.

Women.

Woman.

Okay.

Wicked.

Yeah.

Back in the day.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And, And so that's where I get the Italian side of things as well as, you know, Kevin, you and I worked on the Italian Bowl.

Come here.

Kevin was the voice of the terrible.

And on the commercials for boxing and.

All that, sort of.

Yes, that's what I said.

That's right.

When I said I think you know it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

First thing we usually ask Matt guess is when did he when did you find out you were going to be on the show.

When did he after.

So I leave my phone on, through the evening, and there's, especially for Matt, if there's anything he issues.

So I usually send him emojis between 10 p.m.. 3 a.m.. Yeah, yeah.

So about an hour ago, I got a call on the.

Phone and, you know.

And you knew right.

Away.

I mean, the alarm went off.

That's right.

I sent the bat signal out.

During the day.

Yeah.

So so.

No one could see.

It.

Yeah, it was problematic.

The nick was up.

Yeah.

Nick was up.

Probably doing some insane training.

So we we always had this battle of like, where in a person's timeline do we start?

I kind of want to start somewhat in the middle for you because, you mentioned, that you lived in Italy for a spell.

But you lived in Italy because you were playing professional football.

Yes, I really Italy was not on my radar.

I didn't think I was ever going to speak another language because as football player, not to.

Not to go to the, you know.

Stereotypical, football player, but I just my interests growing up were, were football, football, football.

When I finished college, the only opportunity I had to continue playing and I wanted to continue playing because I loved sports, was to go to Europe, but it actually started in Austria.

A small town team in Holmes, Austria, which.

Is a level over there in the fall.

You know.

Right.

But yeah, it is.

Yeah, it.

Is, a beautiful part of the world, but very, very small town.

And so they reached out, brought me over.

I played my first season there.

And.

The university that you played was where?

In Minnesota, of course, school called Gustavus Adolphus College in what is called the, like it's like a Laura Ingalls Wilder.

Like area of, Yeah, Minnesota, where all that kind of.

She was a pretty skilled football player.

She was the nose to mouth.

Yeah, she was a free safety.

And she hit like a freight train.

You just sit and.

And I've got myself, our South African, producer in my ear, asking for clarification on.

Especially when we talk about Italy when you're playing football in Italy.

American football.

Football.

American football.

Yeah.

That's.

That is our producer who is, from another planet.

So feel no need to educate that bozo about anything.

He.

How does that you wake.

Up every morning with the.

Didgeridoo in his mouth?

How does the recruiting international recruiting happen?

Do you put do you put something out, put yourself on tape and try to get out somewhere?

Or do they?

It is all the.

Different methods of that.

If you know somebody then they you know, yeah, there's it's all that type of network, somebody who knows.

But in my case was a little bit different.

I went to a workout in Chicago that every, every senior in college who played football at least two years gets invited to everyone.

And so I went to that.

And from that, the director of that camp said, hey, you know, you're the, you know, perfect candidate to play American football and Europe because you can play multiple positions.

And I could I played, you know, quite a few different positions.

What were those positions.

Receiver quarterback defensive back okay.

If you had what did you have a favorite.

That's not always the one that you're the most skilled at.

But did you have a favorite?

I did I mean I really enjoyed quarterback, but I also enjoyed receiver.

Yeah.

On the defensive side, I wasn't wasn't great to me.

Absolutely.

But it was the game different from playing in the U.S to playing in Italy?

The rules are the same.

It's NCAA rules, but the game is very different.

And you know, if you.

Try to throw that goofy metric system and you win a nightmare.

You know, luckily it's not a three meter or.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have no idea.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

The differences are really the nuances of it because you're, you're dealing and you'll see this from the coaching tree.

There are so many coaches now in the NFL or in college, and some of the most successful coaches, you know, got their start coaching European teams.

And you're dealing with, you know, you've got three Americans on a team now it's less so the case.

But the rest of the players are Italian and at different varying skill levels.

So it's how do you put it's becomes a really different chess.

It's a shell.

Game.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, how are you going to cover this deficiency when you've got this Italian or Austrian player that's so much advanced and better than everybody else, but you're trying to it becomes a really.

It's interesting just to listen to our global politics when people now are trying to save, all the decisions are being made.

But that's not to show.

So how does.

A relatively small school in Minnesota to now competing against all of these seniors?

I know you, well, in full candor, we are friends, which I'm proud to say was ever a moment like, I am putting up my coverage here, or did you ever get that?

Or someone even driving to the tryouts?

Oh, what the hell am I doing here?

Yeah.

For sure.

I mean, and that there was kind of.

There's a rush to that.

I also, you know, I have theater background is I know you have a theater background, but there's also that part of it that's a rush of competition.

And pushing your limit.

Yeah.

And seeing with what, you know, how much better you can get at something as well.

So I, I love that feeling of going into it.

And you get a little bit of a, an edge when you're coming from a Division three and you're thinking maybe I can compete with some of these guys, maybe I can do that.

So is there.

Something that.

Happened in that tryout that you that you, that you're like, well, like a moment or something you did like a cone drill or something.

You hit some of you're like, I can compete.

With these guys.

Yeah, it.

Really was the end of it.

There was, there were about 20 some odd quarterbacks there.

And, you know, I just went through each drill and was really, you know, as they say in the moment in the zone where you're just thinking about the drill and thinking about the one on one drills.

One on one drills is really where everything gets separated out.

And I did very well and that was the best.

Maybe that one drill I've ever had in my life.

And at the end of it, I look up and there were only two quarterbacks left throwing, and the other guy was actually very good.

And better than me, but to.

Be honest, and director of the camp.

Came back and said, okay, well.

Bringing this guy up to Canada for some workouts, what do you think about, playing in Europe?

And I think the American football in Europe.

That I was like, wherever I want to play.

Yep.

Got my bags.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's where I said, you.

Know, I had not Europe had not been on my mind so particular, you know homes, Austria, which is right.

Here.

Right.

Tiny town, close to the Switzerland border.

How how tiny is tiny Germany population?

Oh, I don't remember the population, but it was small.

I couldn't believe they had an American football team there because there were, I think at that point, 6 or 8 teams in the First Division.

And I'd heard of Salzburg, Graz.

But I had never heard of Holland, Michigan.

And are all these teams affiliated with the NFL?

None.

So they're totally separate.

Yeah, yeah, now they are.

Okay.

But when I was there, there was no NFL involvement.

You know, flag football was just starting to get.

Yeah interesting.

Now it's an Olympic sport.

But it was just I don't know the different rhyme and reason.

It'd be an interesting study to figure out why American football started.

Yeah.

And that small town of homonyms.

And if you look it up on and you can find all sorts of beautiful pictures of this town, homes in Austria and you're like, well, how did this happen?

Right.

And really, if.

And some in some of the cases somebody in that town was fascinated with American football.

A funny story about that.

When I played for another small town in Italy, beaten up a marquee, the owner of that team owned a hotel on the beach.

And was this.

80s.

American movie sports enthusiast.

Yeah.

So Joe Montana played against Dan Marino in like, the early in the Superbowl.

A couple Italian guys, it got coverage in Italy.

Right.

So these guys with Italian roots.

So this guy inhabitant of a marquee, small, small small town where I learned Italian because nobody else spoke English, was just fascinated with it.

And then he had all of John Hughes's movies.

Yes, all of them dubbed over in Italian.

And this guy couldn't speak English, but he had the ball.

Yeah.

And so I remember I was sitting.

In his hotel lobby with him, and you be showing me every.

You like uncle Buck?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

You got that?

Well that's right.

Yeah, right.

I love the reviews.

Yeah.

So you are in now, in Italy.

In a town.

What you.

A lot of significant things happen there.

Is that where you met your bride?

I met my wife in 2009, in Rome.

And at that point, I spoke Italian fluently.

And I still joke with her to this day.

At that point, when I met her, she spoke the least amount of English of any Italian person I met.

And it was a good thing I spoke, right?

Because, yeah, that helped.

But she does not share that same feeling.

Yeah, yeah, she actually has a couple notes here, but yeah, she thought you were selling her a car.

I. I heard it's a very good car.

I heard a story that there is a, we'll call it an incredible parallel between your playing career or a moment you're playing career and a book written by John Grisham called playing for pizza.

Is this is this is this accurate at this?

This is accurate.

I just told this story yesterday.

The new, general manager, for Inverness, the guy from Italy, from Rome.

And he connected with them so they could meet some folks who spoke Italian and had, and had a good conversation when they said, hey, we were going to bring a gift for you.

It's this, you know, book playing for pizza.

I don't know if you know anything about it.

And we were at the Beirut having this conversation and how I met Libby the first time is he heard I played American football in Italy.

And if you ask him to this day, the only book he's ever read is playing for pizza.

I don't know how we got it, and.

I read it.

And that's the only book Libby's read.

That's what he says.

He says that's okay.

Because now is that book about you.

And this is when I first met him, you know, ten years ago.

And and in a way, yeah.

So I, I, and I told the story to the Italian gentleman, Arnaldo, who's now the general manager at Inverness.

There's a team in Italy and it's accurate that had that had an eight year, 73 game winning streak and they were unbeatable.

They're from Bergamo and I had played against them three times over my career.

The first time I played against them, they were they probably had 50 a 55 game winning streak, something like that.

And I had a running back from the University of South Carolina was very good getting Bill Williams, who was an excellent football player, and going into this game, we were on a team that it was just like a start up team.

Yeah.

And you mentioned and the yeah, the Italian guys.

Were learning.

The game, right.

And Mario and Luigi from the Mario.

Brothers and he grabbed me.

He goes down.

There, he goes, I know you want to win.

You know get this Division three try hard attitude.

He goes, but you can't get hurt.

We got to try to think about making the playoffs because we're not going to be in this game.

And I'm looking at him.

And this is like one of the best.

Football players I played with.

And I go, oh, we got you.

I mean, what are you talking about?

We're going to these guys don't know what what's coming.

That's right.

And walk off the field at halftime.

It's 40 to nothing.

And I go what what just happened.

And these guys were that much better.

They had like it's like sports.

I had way better budget right back then.

You didn't have any rules on this is a side story of dual passport players, guys that played in college here in the States that had Italian heritage, that they could then go get them.

Documents so they wouldn't.

Those league rules have changed, but back then they could load up.

But fast forward in 2006, a few years later, we played against them and, they were getting older.

They had reduced the amount of passport players you could have, and we ended up beating them on a Hail Mary pass at the end of the game.

And I did.

My man.

Yeah.

Well, me, whenever I didn't get to see it completed I got knocked down.

Yeah.

But I could just tell, you know, you new field.

Yeah.

And it.

Was.

How far was the ball in the air?

It was.

Not in the matrix.

So.

Yeah, I can't even 9000m.

I so the play.

Started at the.

35 yard line.

I dropped back to probably about the 42, and then it was, in the middle of the end zone.

Well, how did John Grisham come to know about this story?

You know, that I, I, I don't know how he found out, you know, Sports Illustrated did a little story about that upset of that game, and it was in la La Gazzetta dello sport.

But I don't know how he found out about that.

I mean, it was pretty.

If you knew American football in Europe or even Italy, you knew about Bergamo.

And I think he had heard about that as he was doing his research for writing, playing for pizza.

He had heard about it.

And then that as.

The just the murder of someone to be in the.

Book.

No.

You know, they wanted.

Me to, you know, come after you.

I said no, that.

Yeah, it's my the week I've been having a lot of you to kill me today.

When was the when was the moment that Italy became home?

I mean, you're playing football.

You're there working your.

You know.

Focus on that one.

Thing.

I should have brought in my guy development hat.

So guy development has the Cedars of Lebanon because I'm Lebanese and it has Monte Conroe, which is to beat the no amount of care where I learned that language and that it was 2002 or 3 ish.

And I mean, it was formative for me because I, I learned this other language.

I just.

Yeah.

it just became like a home.

It became a place where, I just felt.

I mean, everybody there's a certain feeling with Italian culture of.

Just being what.

You belong.

How did you learn language?

What was what was your method?

I mean, just pure immersion.

It's pure immersion.

I also, when I was there, like I mentioned, the owner of that team, he just loved American football.

I didn't speak any English.

It was it was a crash course.

The guy that communicated with me via email about contract stuff English was great, but he was, his family operated amusement parks in Saudi Arabia, so he wasn't always there.

I get there and, I lived in the owner's hotel and lived there, ate all my meals there.

Watch Chinese film 24.

Seven, watched those, and then watched what was called.

Grand Fratello with the family.

Big brother?

Yeah, in Italian.

Yeah, in the hotel lobby.

And it was like nobody.

I mean, it was so.

Different.

Nobody in that town spoke English.

And I remember coming down for breakfast the next day, after I first arrived there and nobody the general manager wasn't there.

And the mother of the owner of the hotel was a Latina attorney with their hand down.

I'm like, I don't know what that sounds like, like like, yeah, I'm.

But my contract I'm not, you know, is included.

All this quality and was the Italian word for breakfast.

And I say that was like the beginning of, okay, you better start learning or something.

Yeah.

So I punched her in the face.

And I said, before.

You cross international incident.

And then, I mean, we'd all have lunch together, you know, great Italian foods, right?

Yeah.

Big table.

And I'm sitting there.

The only I didn't speak Italian.

Everybody's talking.

But like, after 4 or 5 months, you're just.

You just.

And I remember that's amazing.

Looking around the table and knowing what people were saying.

Yes.

I don't know how to respond.

I don't know.

enough credit.

As we close out here.

You have to be prepared to embrace things as well.

You have to be open to things to learn them.

It doesn't.

Immersion, is only effective, if you're receptive to it.

So it occurred to you we're closing out here.

We'll get more into this in a second.

Second.

We're talking with Nick.

I'd Matt's mystery guest here on the 480 mystery anymore.

It's right here.

That's right.

Well, he he was still.

Your was your mystery guest.

Is your mystery.

Yes.

You don't have the shows done?

Not really.

We're gonna take a break.

When we come back, we'll explore.

I want to talk about the Italian Bowl, as well as dive into what is guide development, today.

And where is it going?

We'll take a break.

We are back on the 419.

To me, community means connecting to others.

I'm Danny Miller, and welcome to the point I love.

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Where you come to watch, listen and learn.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT, a mystery guest edition with Matt's mystery guest Nick IDE.

And make no bones about it.

Of course, my two bosom counterparts here.

We're rolling right back into musical.

Theater musical, which is becoming the unsung theme of this.

Year.

Drives me insane.

It does every single show.

We had a I seeing eye dog.

I don't want to say I can't imagine if you were in The Wiz.

He wasn't it.

Yeah.

And I had him put I hadn't put down.

I thought.

Was I was, I was actually working on writing er but the musical.

Yeah.

But now my star and this.

Is sort of the cultured group of revered earbud.

Crossovers.

It's like Citizen Kane five.

So Nick, in the, in the first segment, you said the word theater.

And I was like.

First moment that.

Gretchen was.

In.

It's a it's not Torchwood.

I didn't I love what is what is.

There's two background.

So I grew up in a I was talking about how to make this quick.

Nick and I would blow through this as fast as you.

Can, brother, to be your older.

So normally in the spring football players would run track.

But I didn't do that.

And much to my high school coaches.

Not he was not pleased with it.

I did the spring musical and that kind of led him to college, wanted to do more theater.

So I did theater in college.

I actually the first show I did as a freshman in college was Six Characters in Search of an author.

Yeah, we were there.

Yes.

That's from the Grisham novel.

Yes.

But now, you know, I'm wondering what you know.

In the original language.

I'm much different is very strange.

Very.

Strange, very.

Strange, you know.

Now?

Yes.

Now.

Did you come back?

Did you?

Are you from Toledo?

No.

From, East Lansing.

Okay.

So how did you, when you came back?

I'm assuming from playing football in Europe.

You did you land come back to Toledo specifically.

Tell us how you got back here.

Yeah, that's a that's an interesting story, too.

So I came.

Back inside of.

It's interesting.

It was in a family business.

My father, my uncle had a real estate holdings in Michigan, in Ohio, and, our Ohio portion of the, portfolio really had not had a lot of attention.

I came back from and playing American football in Europe and coming into a business where I wanted to pull my weight.

I wanted to understand what was going on.

And so we'd have weekly meetings and, we had a number of properties that in Toledo that had been vacant or had been underutilized for for years.

And we didn't have there wasn't a big plan.

We had one property manager who was managing a lot, but never getting down there and saying, okay, I'm been I went a few times, over the years just to, to see what was going on.

And then I said, okay, well, here's an opportunity for me to see what's going on, understand?

Toledo and, and pull my weight and, and make something happen where something had not been, touched.

And what year was that?

That was 2006.

Okay.

A lot of time, a 2021.

Years.

I don't yeah, we can do the math.

Nick I do I. I don't want to dwell on on just football.

But this is a more personal note.

How difficult was it to hang it up?

It was I was done in 2006 because I had I had played in two championship games.

I hadn't won a championship.

And a little bit frustrated with that term.

And I just, I had had some, some burnout because I had played for quite a few different teams in different towns.

So I was always backing new bags every six months, and that's exhausting.

It gets on.

I had always wanted to play for Rome and I hadn't had the opportunity.

The team was Latino, so you want to don't want to confuse Roman.

That's who the soccer guys know.

So that never happened.

But I was okay with it.

And so.

And then when I started, working and getting involved with what was happening particular here in know one of the projects I had up in Michigan, I got a call out of the blue and played in the 2007 season.

2008 season.

The team in Rome, John, said, hey, you know, we need a quarterback.

You know, we remember you.

Do you want to play?

Wow, six, seven months?

And I, and I was in the middle of, some stuff that I was like, can I do both?

Yeah.

Yeah, I can do.

I'll find a way, you know?

And, so I did, and that's when I met my wife, too.

It's a wonderful 2009 season.

It was the best season I'd ever had.

But I was ready to play again at that.

And then after that, I was pretty good.

But I do remember, you know, kind of sitting that moment you talked about when I went to that workout where you're just like, what am I doing here?

Does this make sense?

I'm coming.

I have don't have near the, you know, the resume that some of these guys have.

I was thinking about this.

I was I hadn't played in two years, 30 and was in the airport in Chicago because the team, you know, makes you take it and then you, you go and I'm like, what am I doing here?

Is this make any sense for me to go back in.

Yeah, sure.

And play again.

And then it did.

I mean, it was right.

In a number of ways worked out for you.

So they they did ask about theater.

And thank you for making that brief.

But we met certainly one of the times at the Imagination Station and we were watching a film.

I this is what the two of you didn't know about it when we were competing a little bit, before the second segments.

Give us the the beginning.

And the full story of that.

It's a it's a it's a it's an important story.

And the fact that you were thrown in the, a part of the creation, I think is fascinating to me.

I do think that there is a stereotype of athletes, particularly football players, that there's these Cro-Magnon esque, knuckle dragging, bald headed.

And you only check a few of those boxes.

But so let's, let's say which one.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's what the people decide.

Yeah.

But you've created something.

That is powerful.

Do you mind giving these two knuckleheads insight into that?

So the movie, Matt's talking about here is, called the Suleiman Hamdani Story of the American Jedi.

It's interesting story starts going back to my roots in East Lansing.

One of my, good buddies, names Muhammad Khalil, an Egyptian, Muslim gentleman.

He's also the head of, Islamic studies at Michigan State University.

I grew up Lebanese Christian, Christian, but we were always buddies.

Sports together get to know each other, and we wanted to do some interfaith stuff, tell positive stories, tell positive stories about Americans coming together.

The beauty of America, the American dream, the you know, what brought, you know, my immigrant family here, the ability to be an immigrant and, and, and live the American dream.

And so he and I were like, you know what?

Let's tell these stories from, you know, different faith perspectives.

And we found this story that nobody really had, known about of Selma and Hamdani, and, Muslim kid who grew up in New York.

His family, a Pakistani immigrants, came for the American Dream, opened up a store in Brooklyn.

And this kid was for me, the American hero story.

This kid that grew up, his favorite movie was Star Wars.

He, loved everything about, just New York.

And he wanted to be in the NYPD.

He wanted to be a police officer.

Later, be becomes a police officer, actually a paramedic with the NYPD training program.

Sang in the Christian choir because he thought it was interesting, but was a totally devout Muslim.

Never drank, did all his prayers and stuff like that.

His a closest friend in university.

And the guy that plays a role in this documentary was a Jewish professor that he just hit it off with.

And they were they were super tight with him.

It's like, to me, this is.

America, right?

And we're right.

So different when we find B and we find ways to be together.

And then it gets deeper.

In the story and it's you can find the, the film online, but the 911 happens and he's at this point he's a volunteer paramedic, with the NYPD.

And the morning of he's on his way to, wherever he was volunteering.

He's, one of the Twin Towers smoking gets off there, has his EMT bag, goes in and tragically saves some people.

And then, he's crushed in one of the towers when it comes down.

And so we wanted to tell that story.

Here's, you know, an American hero going in.

And there's some aftermath of that to where there was confusion and doubt over who was this kid was, you know, what happened?

And then as more of the stories come out and how much he was there to help, it really becomes, just a heroic story later on, he talks about as a youth when a couple things that were important to him was, how he went to a funeral for a family friend who was in the NYPD that gets buried underneath the American flag.

And his mother, who was really the champion of the story.

And it went through America afterwards telling the story, said that, you know, he pointed to that flag and and, you know, the NYPD, following, NYPD member being buried and lying, saying, that's honor, that's honor being buried under that.

And so there was suspicion with him after, of course, with with nine, 11, what happened?

Circumstances.

And then he's vindicated and then he's buried underneath Black and Flag.

And it sounds like such a good, story.

How do you tell it?

Is it through interviews of the people?

Did they have photos?

And.

Yeah, it's their documentary interviews.

People that knew him, people that talked about him growing up.

It's how we learned all these things, about how Star Wars was his favorite movie, how he sang in the, you know, Christian choir.

I was this professor was one of the, you know, not as close, one of his closest friends.

And that, you know, just you guys know the story of the body sci you ever heard.

It's a Hindu term where some people are just they're brought into the, into this world and into life, awake, more aware of things.

And to me, it's like this is an example of it.

Absolutely.

Was just that much more aware the minute they were born.

Right.

Did you enjoy the process and do you do you think that you'll do you'll develop another project.

If you.

Find stories like that?

Yeah.

I mean, this one was inspiring.

I mean, inspires me to think that he was 21, 22, all the things that he did, he's 22.

And the way he lived.

His.

This is a relative, awkward transition, but nonetheless that to some degree, I hope people find it invigorating and exciting.

You talked a little bit about the opportunity that you saw in your family's business with, potentially potentially underserved, buildings that you owned.

You've done a lot for downtown Toledo.

Can you talk a little bit about your a humble person?

If I had any of your accomplishments, I would talk about them all the time.

And certainly not hanging with these two clowns.

But, at the risk of pushing your level of humbleness, can you talk a little bit of, what you've done downtown and what what is next and why it's important?

Yeah.

Well, you know, and this is kind of where you and I really, we're have a lot of respect of of how active you are and what you've created.

So when I came back in oh six and started making those trips down here, I came from this European experience of just living in cities where people love to walk and move around.

And actually, you know, this is a moment where I'm starting to it's 20 years later and you see what's happened, guys, and to see where we're going is, pretty exciting just to be able to feel like you can walk in and do all the different things that you can do now with what Metroparks has done and, and things like that.

But that goes back to me thinking, man, there's so much of this possible in 2006 when I, when I, I was like, maybe this is something I need to dive into and and see where, where it goes, see where.

And so that's kind of what, what pushed me and what, motivated me to say, okay, you got great architecture.

You've got a great riverfront, you've got all these things in Toledo, and you have some really some good economic drivers that maybe haven't all been brought together.

And so, me, that was kind of what drove me and what made you wanting to be here and then eventually moving here, because now we live here in the community.

That's what what started.

Ellen.

If people aren't familiar, what buildings?

Do you own and operate?

So tower on them.

On me?

In downtown Toledo and then also, Lamson, center as well.

The former Lancer.

I was the one Lake Erie Center.

We're rebranding it back to the Lansing so, which I think makes some people happy who know about the Lamson Department Store and its history as a very cool history.

I could talk for a long time about that.

I won't do that to you, man.

Yeah, no.

It's better than the musical theater.

What's the future look like for the company in Toledo?

Is there something big that you're working on or excited about?

So we just.

Opened as of Monday, we opened, Ferrara flats in the tower, 91, new units, very excited about that.

And we, you know, I like to tie in a lot of this, European experience.

We are.

We're calling it the Ferrara Flats.

Ferrara.

Is our sister city in Italy.

We're using, a product in there, and, ours that the only other place I think that use something similar is Miami, which is, And it's really cool when you can see the pictures online.

It's a shower surround.

Instead of using the, you know, what can be the cookie cutter kind of fiberglass around it is a paint that was invented and made in Ferrara that is waterproof, and it looks like marble.

Oh, cool.

That's so cool.

Yeah, it is.

So 91 new units in that building.

91 is amazing.

And we are also working with a guy from Rome, who has a couple Michelin recommendations to his name to open a, and an Italian grab and go restaurant.

Nice.

In the same.

In your building?

Yes.

Wow, that would be exciting.

Oh, those are all right.

This will be the most difficult thing you've done in your entire career.

This is more pressure, which I. Of course, I've prepped him for.

It's now time for it.

All right.

I'm.

No, I didn't quit.

Of course I tell you.

I told you all about this.

No chance.

He told you so.

I am going to ask you for rapid fire question.

Oh, no.

I thought you guys were kicking me out.

No, no, no.

Oh, boy.

Gretchen's going to ask you to describe Toledo in one word.

And then you and Matt will list the nine best things in Toledo.

It's the 419.

All right, here we go.

He's ready.

He's.

If you can.

If you created your own country, what would it be called?

Is your wife so great?

One guy.

Guyana.

Okay.

What is your most used emoji?

Man, this one.

Yeah.

The point, the finger pointing at you.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's not the finger he uses, but.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

No, I've got proof.

Yeah.

What context do you use the finger pointing.

I think it's positive.

Like somebody has.

Great idea.

Oh you're like that's good.

Okay.

Got it.

That in the thumbs.

Both of them.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

What's your favorite season?

Oh yeah I love summer.

Love summer.

And then what's your favorite thing to do on a rainy day?

Nap.

I mean.

What's the one word you would use to describe the city of Toledo or the region?

And.

Beautiful.

Okay.

All right.

Nine of your favorite things, brother.

Let's do it.

Okay.

You already said Tibet.

Where?

Tibet.

That Beirut.

That's right.

All right.

But my son.

Who's like, since age of six, can eat rockabilly.

Yes.

Yeah, he's eight feet tall.

I should be, yeah.

All right, we got eight more favorite things with them.

Yeah.

The parks.

We love the parks.

I love the water.

The water.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And because I like to keep it.

You love the tracks?

Yeah, sure.

Running the tracks quite a bit.

And.

We know that.

Any favorite buildings downtown, you the ones that you.

Architecture in general.

Architecture and job.

Toledo's architecture.

Sports teams.

The enthusiasm.

I'll give you two for that.

You got two left?

Yeah.

Authenticity of the people.

Absolutely.

I mean, I've been in a lot of places.

I'm giving you nine right there.

That's it.

One of these days we're going to get married, which is more than two teams in Toledo.

One of these days, we'll get beyond the mud.

Hens and walleye.

We can do it right?

That's right.

Okay.

What?

That's a good point.

Here's the rockets and rockets.

People ask me.

Who do you like?

Michigan?

Ohio State?

I'm like, but now we got bowling Green's coming along too.

Yeah.

No they're.

Is the announcer for Toledo.

I'm obligated to actually out the mic.

Thank you so much for joining us.

So nice to talk to you.

We're going to take a break.

When we come back, we'll be joined by the new executive director of leadership Toledo, Erica Michalis.

We are back on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by ZTE.

We're joined now by the brand new Executive Director of Leadership Toledo, Erica McCaleb.

Erica, congratulations and welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

Kind of a light summer for you.

Yeah.

Nothing really going on.

Yeah.

Just lame.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If people aren't familiar with leadership Toledo, let's let's start there.

What is Leadership Toledo?

Sure.

So Leadership Toledo has been around for almost 50 years now.

Two.

Wow.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

And we are primarily focused on getting people connected to the community, growing in their leadership abilities.

And identifying meaningful service for them to get involved in the community.

What?

How did you come to join the team at Leadership Toledo?

So I went through the program in 2021 and 2022.

Is the class of 2022.

And.

Most.

People have to do it twice.

Or were you so deficient the first time that.

Sorry, it starts in 2021.

And that was really.

Funny because I was.

Like a regular school year.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah.

Yeah, because I had a bunch of fourth grades.

Yeah.

That's okay.

Yeah.

And that's how you got to 50.

So.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was really, inspired by what I learned in the programing.

They they really work on getting you connected to the community through different topics.

So health and human services, arts and culture.

And then also have leadership training.

So Sarah Bast came in and talked to API.

Bryce Roberts came in and talked about the 360 and control reactive.

And so, Brett Roberts, flimflam guy.

Your words.

Yeah.

He's all right.

Yeah.

He's very.

We should tell our audience you're actually marrying Bryce Roberts this weekend.

Yes.

And three days.

Yes.

Last last week.

But we b last weekend, by the time it's been.

Yeah.

Six days.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, happy sixth anniversary.

Yeah.

How's it going?

Yeah.

Honestly.

Super good.

Yeah.

I love married life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You look terrific.

Yeah.

You look different from when I saw you do it.

You know.

Did you guys meet, in Leadership Toledo?

No, we actually met through Toledo Straits newspaper.

Okay.

And so.

I have a dating service.

It is?

Yes.

Yeah.

You can just write, an op ed into the Toledo Straits newspaper, and that's.

In search of.

You.

Find your.

Match.

Yeah.

Maybe there's one out there for you, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I was going through the program and was just really inspired by the work that they were doing, and getting people better connected to the community.

I've always had a really big passion for community building.

And so this was a really natural step for me.

When I found out that they were hiring, I was like, yes, please.

Sure.

I do have to make a quick detour for folks that if they may not be familiar with Toledo streets, we have had them on the program.

But just quickly, what it's a little streets is obviously a meaningful organization to both you and Bryce.

Yeah.

But what is Toledo streets?

Toledo Streets is, a nonprofit that serves people experiencing homelessness.

It is helps them gain financial autonomy.

It's a workforce development program, but it's also a community for people who have really fallen through the cracks.

It's fantastic organization.

I used to work there, and then I made the transfer to Leadership Toledo.

And I still get to interact with Toledo Street newspaper and other nonprofits like that.

Through here.

We have Doug Heim.

On the program, and.

Doug talked a little bit about kind of his love for that organization as well.

You know, when I talk to people about Leadership Toledo, I often tell them that it is, this incredible sort of tour of Toledo and a behind the scenes tour, at that.

But the most impactful part of the program isn't the programing.

It's the other people that you're sitting alongside when you do it right, to be in a room of people that are as curious to get more engaged in the community as you are.

Yeah.

Is a real gift.

Are there are there folks in the class in your from your class that you stay in contact with?

I know every class refers to themselves as the best class ever.

Yeah.

But the reality is that was achieved in 2009.

Oh, and it hasn't happened since.

Oh, okay.

Well, we did just graduate the class of 2026 that have claimed themselves the most generous class ever.

And humblest and.

Yes, most humble.

They did, however, raise the most end of year.

And in their giving campaign for the end of year.

Campaign for leadership Toledo.

So I think that they've earned it.

But I've run into a multitude of people who, articulate exactly what you to have just said that, how do you know them?

I met them.

They were in my leadership.

Toledo.

And they are friends to this day.

I'll run into them, the two of them having lunch.

Whomever the two of them are.

That happened to regularity.

Yeah.

It's an outstanding thing in Toledo to be connected to the leadership Toledo community, I think, It does not do happen at a networking 30 minute experience, which we all go to.

And that's that diminish those that they have no value.

But this is a much different piece of connective tissue.

Yeah.

And we start all of our programing with getting to know each other in like a deep and meaningful way.

So even though we give them name tags, I have their name and their business on it.

We really ask them to explore like who they are as people, who they are in the community.

Outside of their work, the.

Heart of the.

This show is distance us from one another.

Maybe we could use them, mostly.

Because we got to know each other better than we realized.

That was good.

Actually, that was a mistake.

Yeah.

But part of the project, part of the thing that that you just alluded to, the part of the project, the classes do is a is a philanthropy type part or a project that they work on.

Can you talk about some of the things that they've that the prior classes have done or contributed to?

Yeah.

So the Miami Valley Habitat for Humanity Playhouse build was a Leadership Toledo project that kicked off and is now an annual, opportunity that they have.

It's so cool.

And that's really cool.

This past year, class helped, the East Toledo Family Center with a huge anniversary that they had.

They did a lot of archiving work.

And then created an anniversary event for them.

And these Toledo Family Center is an incredible place in East Toledo.

And so to bring a little more publicity to that, through the Leadership Toledo cohort alone, like people from the cohort showing up to that event because now their teammates are working on lifting it off.

That was another really successful project recently.

I'll say you guys have expanded, both adult and youth programing over the last few years.

Let's stay on the adult side.

You guys have more than just what's called the signature program.

Which is what we're talking about.

There's some other programs that you guys have added as well.

Yeah.

So, in 2023, we launched focus 4 or 9, which is a two and a half day program.

So it covers a lot of the similar topics of the signature program, but we do it in two and a half days instead of ten months.

And so it is fast and furious, where we would normally take a day to cover a topic.

We take an hour and a half.

And so we had to get really creative about that.

You know, we're not using panels as much, and we're doing more of, like, hands on learning activities.

So for an example, we go on a downtown tour with the land Bank and they talk about the projects that they're working on.

We got to go in the Nicholas and the Spitzer Building at the Four Corners.

And so it's a really exciting two and a half days for folks.

It's more accessible.

It's more affordable.

We've had people who can't take ten months off to and not ten months off, but ten, ten sessions throughout the ten months off.

And so doing it back to back two and a half days, it becomes more accessible for teachers, for doctors and administrators.

Anywhere in your career that you could or your work life.

You could do that.

That joke or nine program can be beneficial.

And and they end up bonded in the same way that the signature program classes do at the end, because you're spending a really tight two and a half days together.

They're who what's the best panel you've ever had?

Oh, I've never been on one, so.

Yeah, maybe one in the future with each of them.

Yeah.

Kevin, I was going to say let's, let's I want to hear the answer to that.

Yeah, fine.

That is interesting.

I feel like my program.

Yeah.

My favorite panel that I witness was the education piano that Metro Parks was.

And and and the programing.

It, let me care about it.

I don't have kids in that community.

And so it was really cool to see the education side of things that I really wouldn't have.

Okay.

Next question I know about.

That's why we're.

Here.

What is now that is under your leadership.

And of course, stepping into the great, steps of the footsteps of Anna Tony, who has been there for a long time.

What what's something that you hope to add in or that you hope to change or tweak or, get people to understand about leadership?

Toledo.

Under your leadership?

Yeah.

I think, something that we do really well is our programing.

And so taking a peek at what we're currently doing and sustaining that and the strength that we have in the community.

We've also been getting asked from organizations to help in program consulting, because we are so good at running programing.

And we've been asked to do in-house leadership development at some of the organizations and corporations in our area.

And so I think we've started bridge bridging into those, opportunities.

But what a testament.

How good you are.

Yeah.

So other people are are having you bring it in.

So I hope that you've taken a moment that your team to give yourself flowers for that.

So are you from Toledo?

Have you have you lived here?

I am from, Woodville.

So the Toledo area.

But I moved away for college.

I lived in West Virginia for seven years, and then I came back to Toledo in 2019.

So sick of the literacy that West Virginia provided.

West Virginia is an incredible state.

It is a beautiful state.

Yeah, it is beautiful.

And a lot of ways they have, the newest national park.

What are your.

What do you like to do, or you embrace, like to do when you're not, when you're not working?

What's what would be like a fun Toledo Saturday for you guys?

Oh, the farmers market.

Okay.

Antiquing, at Copper Kettle or the Miami Antique Mall.

When you turned 80 or what?

Did you cross the fire?

That's right.

I like to sit with my birds.

Wearing a straw hat doing this?

Yeah.

I think I do have a straw.

Yeah.

You're in West Virginia.

Keep me in the sun.

Come on.

Yeah.

No, we just have a lot of really cool, like, goings on in Toledo area.

Really good food.

The the metro parks are okay, like, people.

Like doing okay, but.

I don't I don't.

I don't want to end the time without talking about the youth side of what, what leadership Toledo does.

Because this is a newer right.

I think when I went through the program, I don't know that the youth.

Yeah, early 2000.

So yeah, we can you know, that's partially because her interests are so boring.

So let's go back.

We have an incredible youth program.

And, Nicole says to our friends, our youth programing and, while it's been around since the early 2000 and it became after that.

Can literacy, you.

Know, and Nicole has this.

I'll say problem I words, with.

Reading.

Oh, my God, I just read I bring that up.

I said, I'm not kidding.

She just posted on Instagram in her stories like 15 different books.

And I messaged and I'm like, when are you doing this?

I when are you doing this period?

100 kids.

She works, I don't understand I. Have a. Stream for summer.

Let me tell you something.

You, we have never put this to the test.

I can throw 15 books up on my whatever, but.

She writes reviews of them.

I say if you need a book recommendation, she's the first person you should call.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I. Just read everything.

Message her.

And I was like, when?

When, when are you doing this?

I didn't go there.

100 books written.

So this time our Yipee program is the philanthropy program that she runs.

And they raise about $20,000 every year and give it back to youth serving organizations.

Wow.

It's amazing.

In addition to like the service projects that we do in our signature program, we also have this philanthropy arm through the youth program.

And we're really developing the leaders in the community.

So the way we've talked about the network that you get to experience through the signature program or focus where online, the youth are also getting that incredible network.

You have a million, I'm sure, Nancy.

Moments, but favorite.

So this is probably like asking you to pick, you know, a favorite family member.

Although everyone has one, do you have at least one moment or something that particularly powerful you do over the years?

That was a success, or individuals that were connected to this community or individual that took leadership Toledo's and took the opportunity and just soared from it?

Yeah.

I guess when I first moved back to Toledo, I didn't intend on staying here.

I came back from West Virginia and I was looking to go to another mountain state.

But when I landed here, everyone was incredible.

Everyone was interested in growing the community to be the best that I could be.

They were super supportive of finding, helping me find my way in the community and where I wanted to serve.

And so I think, like when that happened for me, I realized that that was a gift and that that's what I want to give forward to other people.

And I get to do that in my job every day.

Yeah, well, don't blow past the fact that you, have made that opportunity.

You're an exceptional person.

And so the experience you just articulated, doesn't just fall off a tree, right?

Where do you foster that?

Where do you go around here to get your mountain fix?

An overpass.

Or.

I can't get my mountain fix here, but I think that the metro parks that have really amazing trails, and there are, like, 100 of them at this point.

So I have no idea.

I just, you know, move around the metro parks.

I live really close to Swan Creek.

I used to live close to Wildwood, so I would go to those metro parks.

But.

Have you find another swan?

Greek?

I loves one.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's kind of wildlife as well.

And yeah.

We drop them in there to kind of our market.

Oh, great.

Yeah.

I think I'd like to see.

Well, I've taken some of them home I think.

Please do actually give me back.

Feel free to make their home your home.

How many axolotls are there?

That's one okay.

I don't talk about that.

That's a shot.

I bet my daughter $100,000 that it was spelled in.

Not the way that it is.

So right now, it was seven year old, $100,000.

Okay.

Yeah.

And she.

Brings.

You've got a lot of time to pay that out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Even if you would take that on as a project, maybe to raise 100,000 for my children.

Yeah, that's.

I, I love that.

I love it.

I want to see I want to see Matt go in and pitch to the leadership.

Toledo.

I could their charity.

Yeah.

Raise my children.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm one of them.

Nice.

One of.

Them.

Great.

You did a good job on that one.

Yeah, that's their mom.

Eric, if people want more information on leadership Toledo, where can they find it?

Leadership toledo.org.

You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram.

And then when is the next, signature class?

When it when is that filling?

When do people sign up for that?

So we are currently filling the class.

We take up to 55 applicants.

Okay.

So we've already started building the class, but will accept applications through the end of July, and then that class will start in September and run in September.

I was always jealous.

I didn't get to take this class.

While there's still time.

Yeah.

We have people who go through the program that have lived in Toledo for 62 years or longer.

Yeah, and say, I still didn't know this part of Toledo.

I believe, but I didn't know I could get involved in this way.

Right.

And so people who are well-connected in Toledo often are like, I don't know if this is for me.

I bet there's people in the class that you have never met, and I bet there are places that we can take you that you've never been to.

So amazing.

Erica, thank you so much.

Yeah.

Thanks.

I'm so happy for you.

Yeah.

Yep.

Oh, six days in.

Yeah.

You know, it's great.

Yeah.

All right.

Thank you so much for joining us.

We're going to take a break.

When we come back, we'll wrap up this mystery guest edition of the 419.

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In Toledo.

It's where you belong.

Welcome back to the 419.

As we wrap up, a mystery guest edition.

Matt, great job on the mystery guest.

I didn't mean to make that sound so surprising.

There was a. Tone in there.

I will.

It's fine.

I will take Matt.

Good job.

Yeah.

Is it Matt?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

Nick.

What a life that guy has had.

I knew, actually, we were talking money, as we do, in our production meeting, if that's what.

That's an industry term.

I'm sure our listeners are unfamiliar.

And it was a rare time where I listen to shame our producer, and I was texting underneath the table in real time.

So, yeah, Nick is a great guy.

And, Erica and Nick, a great show to great people.

Not to beat us to death, but I absolutely love, two pieces of that.

Nick talking about what America, aspired to be and should be.

Through that story, it's an amazingly powerful story.

Will make you weep.

I saw it.

I had the opportunity to see it at the Imagination Station.

But it doesn't need to be on a large screen for it to be a motive and effective.

Talk a little bit about us at our worst in terms of blaming individual based on where they were from and jumping to a conclusion, with letting things play out.

And then at the end, it leaves us with, aspiring, to be better and more not dissimilar to Erica's message, I think, because you talked about leadership.

Toledo.

You can't spend 62 years in a place to her point.

Although there's a little bit on the nose, I'm sure that's an individual.

That's anybody in particular?

And.

I'm not saying.

And not, And I hope you never get there.

And not be able to experience things.

And it isn't necessarily about buildings or sports teams or parks or anything like that.

There's somebody next door to you or on your block.

That has a great story.

That can be inspiring.

And if nothing else, what should be inspiring is walking across the street to introduce yourselves to them.

Well said.

How often in meetings are you texting another person in the same meeting about the other people in the meeting?

That is the only reason I go to meetings.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Again, I can send meditation.

I got it.

I also hate.

Her.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Huge thanks to our guests for joining us today.

Thanks to Nick guide, our mystery guest, and thanks to Erica michaelis.

And of course, congratulations on a wedding and the new role as executive director at Leadership Toledo.

If you missed any part of the show, you can catch at 7 a.m.

on YouTube, 3 p.m.

on FM 91 at 6 p.m.

on Connect channel 30.4.

It's the 419 powered by CTE, presented by Retro Wealth Management.

The 419, powered by GTD is made possible in part.

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