♪ >> Hello.

Thanks for joining us on another episode of Canada Files.

I'm Jim Deeks.

I get particular pleasure when I chat with women who have made their mark in business.

Perhaps because when I was growing up, there were so few business women in business in Canada.

Our guest is Nancy Southern, one of the most revered women in Canadian business today, chair and CEO of publicly-traded ATCO Ltd. Based in Calgary, Alberta, ATCO is a 74-year old company co-founded by Nancy's father and grandfather.

Largely built by her father, today it holds $22 billion in assets.

It operates in dozens of countries around the globe, employing more than 6,500 people.

Nancy, thanks so much for joining us on Canada Files .

>> Nancy: Thank you Jim.

I've very honoured to be here today.

>> Let me start by saying you are not the first child, nor the first woman to take over a successful family company.

When you were appointed President and CEO in 2003, were you conscious of any degree of cynicism or contempt that your father, Ron Southern, basically handed the reins over to his daughter?

>> I was very aware of the skepticism of me taking the role.

I think back on how it occurred.

My dad was quite a master at providing people with real responsibility.

He'd check and check.

He felt quite confident that I could manage my way through.

My previous lives before taking on the CEO role helped me a lot.

What really spurred me on, excited me about taking the role was a number of people I highly respected said I wouldn't be able to do it.

It took me more than a decade to recognize passive resistance-- being patronizing towards me in many circumstances.

The other thing my mom and dad have taught me is to persevere.

Be determined, have the courage to look the skeptics in the eye.

I've always believed very much in my instincts and my guts and followed through with them.

>> Do you think, in view of your experience, that nepotism is generally an unfair accusation for people to make in these situations?

>> It's a little like "corporations are bad".

You can have a few bad apples, then reputations snowball.

That's the same with nepotism.

A degree of education and a sombre understanding of real responsibility and fiduciary responsibility is absolutely necessary.

For me, the prospect was, our co-founders-- my father and grandfather's wish that ATCO could go on through generations.

Provide career opportunities for some many people through Western Canada and around the world.

>> For our audience here, and in the US, who don't know ATCO, tell us how the company got its start and its scope today.

>> It was caused by demand, as oil and gas was discovered in Alberta.

There was a great rush to develop these incredible resource reserves.

>> In the late 1940s?

>> Yes.

The first natural gas discovery was in 1908.

When oil was discovered in the Turner Valley and Leduc Fields, is when the gold rush started.

A very harsh environment, weather-wise, and absolutely no people.

The people that worked in the oil patch in those days found themselves looking for a farmer's silo to live in.

Or a tent or a tar-paper shack.

There was a man from Shell who said, "I need a better way to look after men in the field."

My grandfather started bringing in holiday trailers, bought 14 and started renting them.

There was a plethora of demand for them.

This man from Shell said, "I need something sturdier.. more permanent but easy to move to the next site."

A whole industry was born for modular workforce housing.

It's just a ubiquitous box, scratched out on the back of an envelope.

My dad, grandfather and a few founding ATCO members went to work building these units.

My father was 17 years old when the Alberta Trailer Hire was formed.

We've grown from the little Alberta Trailer Company, which, in its first year posted a $600 loss, to a $220 billion asset base around the world.

Products in over 100 countries around the world.

>> Fast forward to 2003.

Your dad with the board's approval, and blesssing, appointed you as President and CEO.

Did you want that job at that time?

>> The importance of your governance responsibility in a family legacy was very transparent.

We had to understand the businesses so we could make good decisions.

Whether we were leading the companies or not, we had to be able to make good decisions.

By that time, I'd spent 8 years in the boardroom.

Throughout that entire time, I was on Audit Committee, did operational audits with a great group of directors that coached and mentored me.

I felt very comfortable.

From the time I remember living in a little 800 sq.ft.

home on our trailer lot, we talked about business at the table-- at breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I am very privileged to have been brought up as a child of commerce.

Commerce came naturally to me.

I love it!

>> Was there a business philosophy or advice that your dad gave you as you were getting into business?

Or did he hand the reins over-- "throw you in the pool expecting you to sink or swim"?

>> He was very thoughtful and considered about the approach.

We started off as co-chairs, then co-chairs and co-CEOs.

Then chair and co-CEOs.

For about 5 years, I enjoyed having the best business coach that I could imagine.

Watching or asking him what he thought about things.

We didn't always agree.

I can't say enough about how he did coach me.

Gave me the room to express my own thoughts and views.

Actually make some different decisions than he would have made.

All the while, supporting and cautioning me about the risks along the way.

>> Did you feel you had to work twice as hard as everyone else, being a woman and the boss' daughter to prove you had the mettle to do the job?

>> Absolutely!

When I was first appointed CEO on my own, I took the opportunity for most of the year to go out and meet every single ATCO person around the world.

I talked to them about my vision, knowing they must have skeptical thoughts about whether I'm going to be able to take things on.

It was interesting because the first thought was something you're alluding to.

Maybe I would step in and just sell it all.

Or I would run it into the ground.

Actually meeting them and being myself, exposing the fact that I'm vulnerable, just like everybody else, we started to build a very good relationship.

To this day, I host a number of open houses and townhall meetings.

I get great participation from the people of ATCO.

I think I've proved "I've walked the talk".

We're here to stay.

We are an organization that will go on through the generations.

And provide many people with future opportunities.

>> I suspect not many people know what a chair of a major multinational company actually does.

You get credit when the stock goes up and blamed when the stock goes down... even though you may not have had influence over the decisions that influence those gyrations.

How deeply are you involved, as chair and CEO in the decisions that affect the company on a day-to-day basis.

>> Because I'm an active CEO, I'm very involved in the decision-making and risk assessment of various project and initiatives that we take on.

One of the criticisms the Coalition for Good Governance in Canada has, is that the chair should be a separate role from CEO.

In the US, where we're airing, the model is far more common to have a chair and CEO in the boardroom.

I have to say while it is difficult at times to wear your separate hats, there are fiduciary issues that the Board must take into account that are not related to what management says.

I do think having a deep understanding of the business and how it's running and who the people are.

How you're planning for succession and development, Where you see trends taking you down a different road.

A business that's not going to be successful 10 years later.

That is all so important to inform the entire board.

That's hard to do if the chair just sits in a 2 to 4 hour board meeting to get that deep understanding.

>> As you would well know, one of the unwritten rules of both corporate and personal wealth is the expectation that you, the company and the person, will donate lots of money to worthy causes.

Ideally if possible, develop charities or institutions that focus on the public good.

Tell us what ATCO does, in a philanthropic sense.

And what you and your family does, personally.

>> We're so geographically dispersed, and in very diversified businesses.

Instead of the traditional giving to excellent causes like the Red Cross, and the United Way.

we realized we were making those decisions from the centre and the people of our company didn't have the opportunity to participate.

If they were living in Fort Chippewa, Northern Alberta or the Pilbara, Karratha of Western Australia there were causes in those communities that were very important to them.

We've always felt that it was a privilege to serve in the communities where we work.

And we do have to give back.

Fifteen years ago, we started an internal campaign called Employees Participating in Communities.

EPIC.

Every group in every location picks their own charity that they want to make a difference in their community in that year.

It's been remarkably successful.

It demonstrates the heart and mind of ATCO in the communities.

Because they are our ambassadors.

In 15 years, we've raised over $42 million.

Donated to various charities and causes including the company matching employees' contributions 100%.

As well as recognizing volunteer time that employees give to these charities.

All CEOs and chairs have their own personal interests as well.

Because of our ability to manufacture modular housing, my favourite one right now... it's so important through North American and the world is to find a way to look after homeless veterans that have served our countries.

To protect the freedoms that we enjoy today.

To see so many veterans homeless and not being looked after by the countries they have served.

It really breaks my heart.

We've embarked on building small villages with our manufacturering called Homes for Heroes .

Working with various homeless agencies such as Mustard Seed, Red Cross that are looking after people and identifying veterans.

We work with them--they have their own tiny home in a box.

It's their very own.

They can lock the door.

They have a kitchen, bedroom, all the amenities.

And a nice community center where they can go for PTSD counselling, or "getting back into the mainstream world" counselling.

Finding them jobs and reuniting them with family and friends.

For me, that is super powerful for giving thanks to people of service who have done so much for our countries.

>> What do you enjoy more?

Making money or giving it away?

>> (Laughs) I really enjoy both!

You have to make money in order to give it away.

The other thing I am very proud of is our investors continue to enjoy increasing dividends.

Money is just a way of keeping score.

It's not something that you hoard.

It is something to share.

Prosperity is something that is a moral obligation for all of us.

Our companies at ATCO have enjoyed 28 years of dividend growth.

In Canadian utilities, it's the longest standing record in Canada of over 40 years.

>> As you know, probably more than any province in Canada, Alberta has been extremely vulnerable the last 75 years.

Since the late 1940s to economic booms and debilitating downturns, because of its dependence on oil and gas demand, mainly in Canada.

Especially in those down years, there has been public discussion in Alberta about it separating.

Usually because of policies enacted by the national government in Ottawa.

As a leading business person in Alberta, how do you feel about western alienation?

Do you think it's justified?

>> I believe it's justified.

>> Interesting >> It wasn't that long ago when it costs a lot more to ship by rail, products from the west to central Canada.

There was a great discrepancy in transportation rates.

When you look at the financial hub of Canada-- it's a natural human tendency, to get comfortable with the environment you are in, and surrounded by.

So it's very difficult to go someplace else, reach out, try to understand, be empathetic about the situation at hand.

Alberta has enjoyed tremendous riches from its resources.

We in Western Canada, Alberta and Saskatchewan, have contributed greatly, to the prosperity in Canada.

The model of transfer payments in Canada is ancient and brittle.

It needs to be revised and looked at hard.

I don't believe in separation.

We are so much stronger as a federation of provinces.

That's the way most Albertans feel.

There is anger but that comes with economic volatility that you talked about.

If people don't have jobs or are losing their homes, the first thing that happens is you get angry.

You lash out wherever you can.

You feel helpless.

There's nothing you can do about commodity cycles-- and boom and bust.

Alberta is more diversified than Canadian people understand.

Agriculture is second to natural resources.

We have a great tourism industry with the Rocky Mountains right at our feet.

We've had a tough time when commodity prices started going down in 2015/16.

Then hit by very very progressive green policies from the federal government.

It's been hard to adapt in a five year period.

You don't turn the Queen Mary around on a dime.

There is still hardship out there.

Layer on the pandemic-- the Corona virus and lockdowns.

Small businesses, leftright and centre going out of business.

Families losing their built-up fortunes, small as they may be.

Equity in their houses and businesses is gone.

So you do have this sense of great frustration and anger.

I don't believe it goes as far as we're going to separate.

We're going to fix this.

>> You've received many honours during your career.

Including being elected to the Business Hall of Fame.

Is there one particular award or distinction that you've achieved that stands above the others?

>> The award that hits me deeply is being awarded an honorary chieftainship by the Blackfoot Nation.

I was given the name, Aksistoowa'paakii.

It means "brave woman".

I will never forget the day of my smudging, the ceremony and the presentation of my headdress.

I wear my headdress in ceremonies with great pride and a deep sense of gratitude to the Indigenous people of Canada for all that they have contributed and all the knowledge they have.

That we haven't started to touch the surface on.

>> I usually end our interviews on Canada Files with a question.

In your case, I ask it of someone who has travelled around the world with the corporation.

Probably visited many other countries personally.

Yet you are very proudly Canadian.

What does being Canadian mean to you?

>> A land of opportunity.

Still a frontier.

It's a land that we have to cherish and nurture.

For me, it is the best place in the world to live.

The opportunities are limitless.

If we set our minds to it.

Work hard and demonstrate the courage that all Canadians are known for.

>> You've been a significant role model, not only for your company but for women across Canada.

For many CEOs of either gender in your career.

Thanks so much for joining us on Canada Files.

>> Thank you very much, Jim.

>> It's a great honour.

I've enjoyed talking with you.

>> Thanks for that.

>> And thank you for joining us onCanada Files.

We hope you'll join us again on the next edition.

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