>>THIS WEEK ON NEWSNIGHT, HISTORY ON THE SPACE COAST.

THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM HERALDS A NEW ERA FOR NASA AND THE START OF AMERICA'S PROGRAM TO RETURN ASTRONAUTS TO THE MOON.

TONIGHT, WE BRING YOU AN IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION HELD AT A RECENT EVENT HOSTED BY WUCF AND WMFE AT THE ORLANDO SCIENCE CENTER.

JOIN US AS WE LOOK AT WHAT IT TAKES TO LAUNCH A MOONSHOT, THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE MISSION AND WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR NASA, THE EXPLORATION INDUSTRY AND THE SPACE COAST.

NEWSNIGHT STARTS NOW.

[MUSIC] HELLO, I'M STEVE MORT.

WELCOME TO A SPECIAL EDITION OF NEWSNIGHT.

>>AND I'M BRENDAN BYRNE, HOST OF THE "ARE WE THERE YET?"

SPACE PODCAST FROM 90.7 WMFE NEWS.

>>WELL, LAST MONTH, BRENDAN AND I HOSTED A DISCUSSION AT THE ORLANDO SCIENCE CENTER.

AND TONIGHT WE'RE BRINGING YOU PART OF THAT EVENT.

WE SAT DOWN WITH NASA'S TEST DIRECTOR, DAN FLOREZ, UCF PLANETARY SCIENTIST ADDIE DOVE, AND DALE KETCHAM FROM THE STATE AGENCY SPACE FLORIDA TO DISCUSS THIS NEW ERA IN SPACE EXPLORATION.

>>LAUNCHING A ROCKET AS BIG AS THE SPACE LAUNCH SYSTEM IS NO MEAN FEAT.

IN THE FIRST PART OF OUR DISCUSSION, WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT ARTEMIS 1 HOPES TO ACHIEVE BEFORE IT SPLASHES DOWN IN THE PACIFIC AFTER ITS SIX-WEEK MISSION.

AND WE STARTED BY ASKING DAN FLORES WHAT GOES INTO GETTING THE MOST POWERFUL ROCKET NASA'S EVER BUILT OFF THE GROUND AND ON ITS WAY TO THE MOON.

>>IT TAKES A MASSIVE, DEDICATED TEAM, RIGHT?

AND THIS IS A TEAM THAT'S UNDERGONE SEVERAL CHALLENGES, LIKE YOU ALL KNOW, RIGHT?

IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WE'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH A PANDEMIC AND THAT'S A CHALLENGE ON ITS OWN TO FIGURE OUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO WORK AND MAKE PROGRESS DURING THIS TIME FRAME.

BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD OTHER CHALLENGES WITH RESOURCES WE HAVE A TEAM THAT HAS EXPERIENCED, A SMALL TEAM THAT HAS EXPERIENCE FROM SHUTTLE.

AND WE HAVE A LOT OF YOUNGER FOLKS THAT HAVE COME IN OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT ARE GAINING THAT EXPERIENCE.

AND LEARNING FROM THE MORE SENIOR FOLKS TO BE READY TO LAUNCH THIS VEHICLE.

BUT IT TAKES A DEDICATED TEAM TO ENSURE THAT ALL THE PARTS ARE READY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE PROCEDURES, THE SCHEDULES ARE RIGHT AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THE HARDWARE IS BUILT AND TESTED PROPERLY AHEAD OF LAUNCH.

>>DAN, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MISSION IN ITSELF.

BUT IT'S ALSO PAVING THE WAY FOR ARTEMIS 2 AND ARTEMIS 3, WHICH WILL HAVE CREW ON BOARD.

>>SO ORION IS RIGHT NOW IS THE ONLY MANNED SPACECRAFT THAT'S CAPABLE OF SENDING ASTRONAUTS TO THE MOON OR TO DEEP SPACE, FOR THAT MATTER, DUE TO THE RADIATION SHIELDING.

THAT IT HAS AS PART OF ITS DESIGN PROCESS AND ALSO THE RADIATION HARDENING AS PART OF ALL THE ELECTRONICS ONBOARD THE SPACECRAFT.

SO WE'LL BE MEASURING THE DOSAGE THAT THE CREW MAY BE EXPOSED TO IN DEEP SPACE, AND WE'LL INCORPORATE THOSE LESSONS INTO THE ARTEMIS 2 DESIGN AND ALSO TO THE MISSION PLANNING.

>>THIS MISSION IS REALLY PUSHING ORION TO THE LIMIT, RIGHT?

I MEAN, THIS IS A SIX-WEEK LONG MISSION, WHICH IS MUCH LONGER THAN A HUMAN MISSION WOULD BE, RIGHT?

THIS IS TO GET SOME REALLY GOOD DATA FROM THIS, RIGHT?

>>OH YEAH.

WE'RE GOING TO BE GETTING SOME GREAT DATA.

IT'S A SIX-WEEK MISSION, LIKE YOU SAID, RIGHT?

SO IT'S GOING TO TEST OUR CAPABILITY TO HAVE THE SPACECRAFT ORION IN ORBIT, ALL THE CONSUMABLES THAT GO ALONG WITH IT, RIGHT?

THE FUEL, THE POWER CONSUMPTION.

SO IT'S GOING TO, WE'RE GOING TO GET GREAT DATA TO SUPPORT FUTURE ARTEMIS MISSIONS.

AND ONE OF THE MAIN GOALS IS GOING TO BE THE REENTRY., RIGHT?

THIS ORION IS GOING TO REENTER EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE FASTER THAN ANY OTHER SPACECRAFT HAS EVER HAVE, HAS EVER ENTERED.

SO THAT STRESSES THE HEAT SHIELD AND THE BOTTOM OF THE SPACECRAFT SIGNIFICANTLY.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE SOME DATA AFTER WE SPLASHDOWN IN THE PACIFIC OCEAN TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE THE PROPER DESIGN TO SUPPORT YOU KNOW, CREWED FLIGHTS IN THE FUTURE.

>>OBVIOUSLY, GOING TO THE MOON IS ONE THING.

AND THEN EVENTUALLY THE IDEA IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO MARS, RIGHT?

>>CORRECT.

>>CAN YOU EXTRAPOLATE ANYTHING FROM THAT DATA THAT YOU GATHER ON WHAT MIGHT FACE AN ASTRONAUT EVENTUALLY IF THEY WERE TO GO ONTO MARS?

>>YOU CAN EXTRAPOLATE SOME OF THE DATA FOR THE RADIATION EVENTS, RIGHT?

AND FOR EARTH'S REENTRY.

THAT'LL DEFINITELY HELP, RIGHT?

WITH THE MISSIONS TO PROGRESS TO MARS.

BUT RIGHT NOW, OUR GOAL IS TO GET TO THE MOON, TO ESTABLISH OUR GATEWAY AND IN A FEW YEARS AROUND THE MOON AND TO HAVE A PERMANENT PRESENCE ON THE MOON SO WE CAN GO BEYOND TO MARS.

>>ADDIE, THE MOON IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR LIFE.

AND I JUST WONDER HOW YOU'RE SORT OF FEELING ABOUT THIS.

>>SURE.

YEAH.

I'M A LUNAR SCIENTIST, AND I HAVE BUILT A NUMBER OF EXPERIMENTS THAT HAVE REALLY FOCUSED ON UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE SURFACE OF THE MOON, RIGHT?

AND SO HAVING THIS ARTEMIS MISSION THAT'S GOING TO GO BACK AND SORT OF BE THIS KEYSTONE, LIKE YOU SAID, OF ALL OF THESE MISSIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE GOING BACK IS SO EXCITING.

AND A LOT OF THE THINGS I WORK ON ARE GOING TO FLY ON SOME OF THE SMALLER CLIP'S MISSIONS.

SO THE COMMERCIAL PAYLOADS, THEY'RE FLYING A LOT OF THE SCIENCE INSTRUMENTS THAT ARE GOING TO GO ALONGSIDE ARTEMIS.

BUT ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM IS HOW THEY'RE REALLY INVOLVING SCIENCE AND SCIENTISTS IN ALL OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE MISSIONS.

SO EVEN IN THE VERY FIRST, THEY JUST RELEASED THE LANDING SITES FOR ARTEMIS 3, THERE'S A SORT OF A SLEW OF LANDING SITES AND THOSE ARE ALL BASED ON SCIENCE AND DATA THAT WE HAVE FROM CURRENT ORBITING SPACECRAFT AND UNDERSTANDING WAYS WE CAN USE THE LUNAR RESOURCES AND REALLY FIND THE OPTIMAL WAYS TO GO TO THE SURFACE.

SO IT'S YEAH.

SO IT'S JUST REALLY EXCITING TO - AND I LIKE BIG ROCKETS.

SO IT'S REALLY EXCITING FROM THAT.

>>WE WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT ABOUT YOUR WORK SPECIFICALLY A LITTLE BIT LATER ON THAT.

DALE, I JUST HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU.

YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN INTERVIEWING YOU FOR I FEEL FOR MANY YEARS YOU'VE BEEN ON THE SPACE COAST AND JUST TAKE A STEP BACK IF YOU CAN AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE GOT HERE.

>>WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE WHEN WE ENDED THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM, THERE WAS A RECOGNITION THAT WE WERE GOING TO FLY WITH THE RUSSIANS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS BECAUSE WE NEEDED THE RESOURCES THAT WERE GOING INTO SHUTTLE TO PLAN FOR OUR NEXT PROGRAM.

AND CONSTELLATION WAS CANCELED.

WE'RE NOW ON THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM THAT HAS LED TO AND WE'RE STILL GOING TO THE MOON, BUT NOW WE'RE TAKING A DIFFERENT APPROACH.

THE REST OF THE PROGRAM INVOLVES AN EVER INCREASING ASSOCIATION AND ENGAGEMENT BY THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR.

AND I THINK THAT SORT OF PERCOLATES AND PERMEATES THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY TO REALLY FEEL EVERYBODY'S BACK IN THE SENSE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING SOMEWHERE.

WE'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S MEANINGFUL AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THE COMMERCIAL LAUNCHES ARE GREAT.

I MEAN, THEY'RE SPECTACULAR.

AND THAT'S WHAT SPACE FLORIDA'S MOSTLY FOCUSED ON.

BUT THAT'S SORT OF BUILDING THE CAPABILITY TO DO SOMETHING.

AND THIS IS WHAT IT IS WE'RE DOING.

>>AND BE SURE TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT NASA'S NEW MOON SHOT?

WE'RE AT WUCF TV ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER AND INSTAGRAM.

WELL, THE PROSPECT OF HUMANS ONCE AGAIN SETTING FOOT ON THE LUNAR SURFACE IS AN EXCITING MOMENT FOR SCIENTISTS AND RESEARCHERS.

>>LAUNCHING THE SPACE LAUNCH SYSTEM AND FLYING AROUND THE MOON IS ONE THING.

TAKING UP ASTRONAUTS AND LANDING THEM ON THE SURFACE IS QUITE ANOTHER.

>>WELL, THE TECHNOLOGY BEING USED THIS TIME DIFFERS VASTLY FROM THE ANALOG WORLD OF THE 1960S AND 70S AND IS THE CULMINATION OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

SOME EVEN QUESTIONED THE NEED TO INVEST THE RESOURCES IN GOING BACK TO OUR NEAREST CELESTIAL NEIGHBOR.

WE PICK UP OUR CONVERSATION NOW WITH DAN FLOREZ ON WHY HE THINKS RETURNING TO THE MOON IS AN IMPORTANT STEP.

>>THERE IS A PURPOSE TO GO BACK.

IT'S BEEN IT'S BEEN OVER 50 YEARS SINCE WE'VE LEFT THE MOON.

SO IT'S TIME FOR HUMANITY TO GO BACK AND MAKE IT A PERMANENT PRESENCE SO WE CAN GO BEYOND, RIGHT?

WE'VE BEEN WE'VE BEEN CONFINED TO THE LOW-EARTH ORBIT FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS.

WE'VE DONE SOME GREAT THINGS.

WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED SOME GREAT SCIENCE ON THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION.

NOW IT'S TIME TO TAKE THAT TECHNOLOGY AND ALL THE LESSONS THAT WE APPLIED AND PUT THEM TO GOOD USE IN THE MOON.

SO WE CAN GO BEYOND, WE CAN GO TO MARS OR WE CAN GO DEEPER INTO SPACE.

>>IN TERMS OF LIKE GOING SOMEWHERE AND EXPLORING.

WE'VE BARELY TOUCHED THE SURFACE LITERALLY.

SO WE HAVE BEEN TO...THE NUMBER OF PLACES WE'VE BEEN IN THIS WHOLE SQUARE AREA WE'VE COVERED ON THE MOON AND THE APOLLO MISSIONS WAS LIKE SMALLER THAN THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT?

AND SO IF YOU'RE TRYING TO EXPLORE AN ENTIRE PLANETARY BODY, IT'S LIKE GOING TO LESS THAN...YOU'RE JUST EXPLORING THE UNITED STATES HERE ON EARTH, RIGHT?

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW ABOUT SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS ABOUT WHAT'S SHAPED THE EARTH AND ABOUT THE PROCESSES TAKING PLACE AND ABOUT THE HISTORY.

SO THERE'S A LOT LEFT TO EXPLORE THERE.

I ALSO THE POINT ABOUT LONG DURATION AND SUSTAINED PRESENCE OF HUMANS ON THE MOON, I THINK IS A CRUCIAL ONE FOR LONG TERM EXPLORATION.

AND THAT'S NOT ONLY JUST HAVING PEOPLE THERE, BUT DOING SCIENCE, UNDERSTANDING HOW HUMANS LIVE OFF-WORLD AND ALL OF THAT.

SOME OF THESE EARLY MISSIONS ARE GOING TO SET THE STAGES FOR THAT REALLY NICELY.

>>DALE, I MEAN, WHY ARE WE GOING?

>>WELL, I THINK THE SCIENCE IS A CRITICAL COMPONENT OF IT BECAUSE ABSENT THE SCIENCE, YOU DON'T HAVE EXPLORATION.

AS WE STARTED THE SPACE RACE WITH THE RUSSIANS, WITH THE SOVIETS, IT WAS ABOUT POWER.

IT WAS ABOUT PRESTIGE, IT WAS COMPETITION.

AND BECAUSE OF ITS IMPACT ON EARTH.

AND I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT A SIMILAR ANALOGY NOW BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE AN EVEN MORE FORMIDABLE COMPETITOR THAN THE SOVIETS IN CHINA.

I THINK THERE IS...IT'S GOING TO GET TO MORE FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN INITIATIVES OF EXPLORATION, WHICH, AGAIN, GOES TO POWER, RESOURCES.

SO IT'S IT'S NOT ALWAYS PRETTY, IT'S NOT ALWAYS WHAT WE WANT IT TO BE IN TERMS OF THE HIGHEST, THE BETTER ANGELS OF OUR NATURE.

BUT WE'RE HUMANS AND WE AIN'T ANY DIFFERENT THAN WE'VE BEEN FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF THOUSAND YEARS.

SO LET'S RIDE THAT AS WELL AS WE CAN.

>>THE PLACES THAT THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM WILL GO TO, WILL SEND HUMANS TO, ARE FAR DIFFERENT THAN THE PLACES THAT THE APOLLO MOON WALKERS WENT TO.

WE GOT A LITTLE TASTE OF WHERE THOSE PLACES MAY BE ON THE MOON, BUT GIVE US A BROAD SENSE AS TO WHERE THESE ARTEMIS ASTRONAUTS ARE GOING TO LAND AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO FIND THERE.

>>THERE ARE INTERESTING RARE EARTH ELEMENTS, BUT THE BIG THING ON THE MOON IS WATER.

>>WHY IS THAT SO SPECIAL?

WE'VE GOT TONS OF IT HERE.

>>WELL, DO WE?

NOT A GOOD TIME FOR THAT RIGHT NOW.

SO WATER IS A KEY COMPONENT NOT ONLY FOR DRINKING, RIGHT?

BUT ALSO FOR ROCKET FUEL.

SO IF YOU CAN FIND WATER, IT'S HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN, RIGHT?

WHICH IS WHAT'S BEING LOADED INTO SLS.

SO IF YOU CAN FIND WATER OR HYDROXYL O-H MOLECULES, YOU CAN BREAK THOSE APART AND YOU CAN MAKE WATER FOR DRINKING OR YOU CAN FUEL YOUR ROCKETS.

SO IT'S CALLED IN-SITU RESOURCE UTILIZATION, USING THINGS WHERE YOU FIND THEM.

AND ONE OF THE CRUCIAL COMPONENTS OF WHERE WE'VE SELECTED THOSE LANDING SITES, FOR OUR POTENTIAL LANDING SITES FOR ARTEMIS 3 AND PROBABLY BEYOND, THEY'RE ALL NEAR THE SOUTH POLAR REGION OF THE MOON.

SO THE SOUTH POLE IS VERY VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE EQUATORIAL REGIONS, WHICH IS PRIMARILY WHERE THE APOLLO MISSIONS WENT.

IT'S ACTUALLY MUCH HILLIER, WHICH IS SORT OF MORE DANGEROUS.

WE WENT TO THE EQUATORIAL REGIONS BECAUSE IT WAS EASY VISIBILITY FROM EARTH.

AND ALSO THERE'S FLATTER REGIONS AND IT'S JUST SAFER TO LAND FOR THE MOST PART.

THE PLACES WE'RE LOOKING IN THE SOUTH POLE, THOUGH, HAVE REALLY INTERESTING PLACES WHERE THERE'S MOUNTAINS THAT GET PERMANENT SUNLIGHT.

SO YOU CAN USE PUT SOLAR PANELS OR YOU CAN GET ENERGY AT THOSE REGIONS.

AND THOSE ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THESE CRATERS THAT ARE PRETTY DEEP AND PERMANENTLY SHADOWED, AT LEAST FOR MOST OF OUR FOR A LONG GEOLOGIC TIME.

AND SO THOSE PROBABLY HAVE ICE IN THEM.

SO THESE AREAS THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER WHERE YOU HAVE SUNLIGHT FOR POWER AND WATER FOR RESOURCES ARE REALLY GREAT AREAS TO GO AND EXPLORE.

AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE LANDING SITES THEY SELECTED OR THEY'VE PUT OUT THERE, MOST OF THOSE HAVE BOTH OF THOSE OPTIONS.

>>YOU COULD FIND MUCH MORE OF THIS DISCUSSION ON OUR WEBSITE AS WELL AS INFORMATION ABOUT THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM.

IT'S ALL AT WUCF.ORG/NEWSNIGHT >>EVEN AMID ALL THE TALK ABOUT THE OBJECTIVE OF REACHING THE LUNAR SURFACE, MANY SCIENTISTS AND RESEARCHERS ARE ALREADY LOOKING FURTHER AHEAD.

SO WHAT DOES COME NEXT?

WHAT PROMISE DOES THE MOON HOLD FOR THE FUTURE OF LUNAR EXPLORATION AND EXPLOITATION?

>>WELL, THERE'S ALSO THE QUESTION OF WHAT ROLE NASA PLAYS ON THE MOON IN THE FUTURE.

AND WHAT ROLE PRIVATE ENTERPRISE WILL TAKE ON.

AND THEN THERE'S WHERE WE GO AFTER THE MOON.

>>SO THE INTERIM GOAL IS TO ESTABLISH A PERMANENT BASE AROUND THE MOON AND THE MOON AND HAVE PERMANENT ACCESS TO THE MOON.

LAUNCHING A ROCKET FROM THE MOON IS A LOT CHEAPER AND A LOT EASIER THAN LAUNCHING A ROCKET FROM EARTH.

SO IF WE CAN, YOU KNOW, EXTRACT RESOURCES FROM THE MOON TO BUILD A LAUNCH VEHICLE OR BUILD THE EQUIPMENT REQUIRED TO LEAVE LUNAR ORBIT, THAT'S A LOT CHEAPER THAN THAN LAUNCHING EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO LAUNCH FROM EARTH BECAUSE OF THE MASS AND THE GRAVITY ASSOCIATED WITH LEAVING EARTH'S ORBIT.

>>WHAT DO WE NEED TO ESTABLISH THAT PERMANENT PRESENCE ON THE MOON?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE NEXT STEPS?

>>IN THE NEAR TERM, WE ARE GOING TO BE BUILDING A SMALL STATION AROUND THE MOON, RIGHT?

SO WE CAN HAVE EASIER ACCESS TO THE LUNAR ORBIT AND WE CAN HAVE A LANDER THAT'S AVAILABLE TO GO UP AND DOWN AS THE MISSIONS DICTATE.

AND THAT'S THE GATEWAY.

AND WE'RE GOING TO START LAUNCHING PIECES OF THAT GATEWAY IN AS EARLY AS 2024.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP WITH NASA.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT ARE ENGAGED IN THAT GATEWAY DEVELOPMENT THAT ARE GOING TO BE LAUNCHING THOSE PIECES OF THE GATEWAY INTO LUNAR ORBIT.

>>AND A LOT OF THE TECHNOLOGIES WE'VE DEVELOPED TO BUILD THE SPACE STATION THAT'S CURRENTLY AROUND EARTH AND THEN OTHER TYPES OF SPACE STATIONS, AND GATEWAY, CAN BE USED TO BUILD HABITABLE MODULES ON THE MOON.

WE CAN ALSO USE RESOURCES THAT ARE THERE, IF WE DIG DOWN, RIGHT?

AND CREATE SHIELDING, USING THE REGOLITH THAT'S THERE CREATES ADDITIONAL RADIATION SHIELDING THROUGH THESE THINGS CALLED LUNAR PITS THAT ARE HOLES BASICALLY THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTING PLACES TO PROTECT US AND THAT ARE SORT OF MORE A LITTLE BIT MORE HABITABLE.

BUT THE MOON HAS ADVANTAGES OF A SOLID SURFACE AND GRAVITY, RIGHT?

SO IT IN SOME WAYS THAT MAKES IT EASIER THAN PLACES LIKE THE SPACE STATION.

SO THERE ARE WAYS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE RADIATION ENVIRONMENT IS GOING TO BE, IT'S CALLED THE SOLAR WIND.

IT'S CHARGED PARTICLES THAT STREAM FROM THE SUN AND ALSO CAN CAUSE COMPLEX ENVIRONMENTS ON THE LUNAR SURFACE.

ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES WITH LIVING ON THE MOON IS THE DAY AND NIGHT CYCLE SO A LUNAR DAY IS ABOUT 14 DAYS, 14 EARTH DAYS.

AND SO WHEN YOU'RE IN THE SUN, IT'S REALLY HOT.

YOU NEED AIR CONDITIONING.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE NOT IN THE SUN, WHEN IT'S DARK, RIGHT?

IT'S REALLY, REALLY, REALLY COLD.

AND SO FINDING WAYS TO DEAL WITH ALL THAT FOR HUMANS AND FOR ELECTRONICS, FOR INSTANCE, IS REALLY COMPLICATED.

BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF REALLY SMART PEOPLE WORKING ON IT.

>>NASA HAS TASKED YOU AND A TEAM TO REMOTELY EXPLORE A REGION OF THE MOON NEVER BEFORE VISITED THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAVE SOME MINERALS AND SOME CHEMICALS THAT WOULD BE OF INTEREST.

TELL US A BIT ABOUT ABOUT WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND HELP ME PRONOUNCE WHAT IT IS.

>>NO PROMISES ON PRONOUNCING IT CORRECTLY.

SO, YES, KERRI DONALDSON-HANNA, ALSO AT UCF IS THE PI OF THIS MISSION.

AND I'M THE DEPUTY PI.

AND THIS MISSION WILL GO TO THE GRUITHUISEN DOMES, APPROXIMATELY, CORRECTLY PRONOUNCED.

>>BETTER THAN I COULD HAVE.

WHICH ARE THESE REALLY INTERESTING, SORT OF LOW FLAT VOLCANIC MOUNDS ON THE LUNAR SURFACE.

AND WE'RE GOING TO GO THERE WITH A LANDER AND A ROVER AND EXPLORE HOW THESE MOUNDS FORMED, BECAUSE THEY'RE SORT OF THE MINERALS, AS YOU MENTIONED, IN THERE ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN OTHER AREAS ON THE SURFACE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO SEND THIS MISSION IN 2026 TO EXPLORE THE GRUITHUISEN DOMES.

>>INTERESTING.

I MEAN, DALE, THIS ALL SORT OF THROWS UP AN INTERESTING QUESTION, RIGHT, ABOUT COMPETITION.

YOU KNOW, NATIONS LIKE CHINA ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE MOON AS WELL.

WHAT IS TO STOP A COUNTRY, CHINA AS AN EXAMPLE, FROM SORT OF CLAIMING IT AS TERRITORY?

>>THERE WAS A DELEGATION FROM THE UNITED NATIONS TREATY ON THE INTERNATIONAL ON THE PEACEFUL USES OF OUTER SPACE THAT CAME AND VISITED WITH SPACE FLORIDA BASED UPON LEGISLATION PASSED ABOUT FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO WE'RE LOOKING RATHER ROGUE IN THE EYES OF AFRICA AND ASIA AND ELSEWHERE BECAUSE WE'RE GOING YEAH, IF SOMEBODY INVESTS CAPITAL TO GO SOMEWHERE AND START HARVESTING MINERALS, IT SHOULD BE THEIRS.

WELL, ARE THE RICH JUST GOING TO GET RICHER AND THE POOR?

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A CHRONIC HUMAN PROBLEM.

WE NEED TO AVOID BEING NAIVE ABOUT GETTING CONSENSUS AMONG ALL OF THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD BEFORE WE GO OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING.

IT AIN'T EVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE'RE GOING TO GO OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING.

LET'S JUST HOPE WE DO IT WELL.

AND THE CHINESE LIVE UP TO THE ASPIRATIONS OF THEIR BETTER ANGELS AS WELL.

AND US, TOO.

AND WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORK THIS WITH AS LEAST A REFLECTION OF OUR HISTORY AS A SPECIES AS WE CAN POSSIBLY COME UP WITH.

>>WELL, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

WHAT DO YOU THINK NASA'S ROLE IN SPACE EXPLORATION SHOULD BE IN THE FUTURE?

AND WHAT PART SHOULD THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR PLAY?

LET US KNOW.

WE'RE AT WUCF TV ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER AND ALSO ON INSTAGRAM.

OK.

FINALLY TONIGHT, WHAT DOES THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM MEAN FOR OUR REGION?

>>WHEN NASA ANNOUNCED CAPE CANAVERAL WOULD BE HOME TO AMERICA'S MOON PORT, THEN FLORIDA GOVERNOR FARRIS BRYANT CALLED IT THE BIGGEST DEVELOPMENT EVER IN THE FLORIDA ECONOMY.

THE APOLLO PROGRAM SPARKED INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT IN CENTRAL FLORIDA AND INVESTMENT IN THE CREATION OF NEW STATE COLLEGES, INCLUDING FLORIDA TECHNOLOGICAL UNIVERSITY TO BOOST THE SUNSHINE STATE'S TECHNOLOGICAL MUSCLE.

THAT SCHOOL WENT ON TO BECOME UCF.

>>WELL, NEWSNIGHT'S KRYSTEL KNOWLES LOOKS AT WHAT ARTEMIS MIGHT MEAN FOR THE SPACE COAST ECONOMY AND HOW THE BENEFITS MIGHT COMPARE TO THE FIRST SPACE RACE.

>>FOLLOWING THE RETIREMENT OF THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM, THE KENNEDY SPACE CENTER WAS ABLE TO LEASE SOME OF ITS FACILITIES TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

AND ACCORDING TO NASA'S MOST RECENT EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS, ABOUT 14,000 JOBS RIGHT HERE IN THE COUNTY ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE SPACE INDUSTRY.

SINCE NASA'S FIRST CREW LAUNCH IN 1961, FOLLOWED BY THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM.

THE SPACE COAST EARNED ITS NAME AND LOTS OF MONEY.

ACCORDING TO NASA'S ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY, IN 2010, SPACE-RELATED DIRECT SPENDING WAS $1.71 BILLION IN BREVARD COUNTY.

BUT WHEN THE SPACE SHUTTLE TOUCHED DOWN FOR THE FINAL TIME IN 2011, THE SPACE INDUSTRY AND THE COUNTY TOOK A NOSEDIVE.

BREVARD'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HIT 11.2%.

>> 3-2-1-0.

IGNITION.

LIFTOFF.

>>FAST FORWARD MORE THAN A DECADE AND KSC ASSOCIATE CENTER DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT BURTON SUMMERFIELD SAYS PRIVATE SPACE COMPANIES ARE LAUNCHING THE SPACE COAST INTO A NEW ERA.

>>IF YOU LOOK TODAY AT OUR BUDGET VERSUS WHAT IT IT WAS BACK DURING A TIME FRAME, IT IS LARGER TODAY THAN IT WAS THEN.

BECAUSE BACK DURING THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE COMMERCIAL CREW PROGRAM PRESENCE THAT YOU HAVE AND YOU SEE OTHER COMMERCIAL ENTITIES IN WHICH NASA USES TO HELP ACCOMPLISH ITS OVERALL MISSION.

>>BUT SOME INDUSTRY VETERANS REMAIN CAUTIOUS.

KEVIN DIMECO IS A UNION REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MACHINISTS AND AEROSPACE WORKERS.

HE SAYS AT THE TIME THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM ENDED, COMPANIES THAT CONTRACTED WITH NASA CUT BUDGETS AND WAGES.

AND ACCORDING TO DIMECO SOME WORKERS ARE STILL FEELING THE EFFECTS TODAY.

>>SOME OF THE CONTRACTORS, YOU KNOW, TOOK AS MUCH AS A 15, 16% HIT ON US.

SOME WASN'T AS DRASTIC.

SOME WAS ONLY A 3% OR 4% HIT.

RECENTLY, THE WAY THE JOB MARKET IS HERE IN BREVARD COUNTY, IT'S IN OUR FAVOR NOW.

>>THE AMERICAN SPACE MUSEUM IN DOWNTOWN TITUSVILLE IS A PLACE TO EXPERIENCE THE GLORY OF PAST SPACE PROGRAMS.

BUT FOR MARK MARQUETTE, IT'S ALSO A PLACE TO CELEBRATE WHAT HE SEES AS A REBIRTH OF THE AEROSPACE ECONOMY THAT BEGAN IN 2014.

>>ON THE FIRST COMMERCIAL LAUNCH FROM KENNEDY SPACE CENTER.

>> WHEN SPACE X LEASED PAD 39 A.

>>SPACE COAST OFFICE OF TOURISM EVEN COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC ALL RIGHT FOR 14 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS THEY HAVE BROKE EVERY RECORD OF SALES TAX AND THE MONEY THAT THEY GET.

>>WELL, WHILE THE SPACE COAST ECONOMY IS GROWING, UNION LEADER DIMECO SAYS PAY FOR WORKERS IS FAILING TO KEEP UP WITH THE COST OF LIVING.

>>THERE IS YOU KNOW, A HOUSING SHORTAGE.

I JUST HOPE AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT OUR MEMBERSHIPS IN THESE YOUNG FAMILIES CAN BE ABLE TO AFFORD THESE HOMES.

THE PRICE OF HOMES HAS GONE CRAZY HERE IN BREVARD COUNTY.

>>DESPITE INFLATION AND THE INCREASED COST OF LIVING.

NASA'S SUMMERFIELD SAYS THE SPACE INDUSTRY IS GENERATING MORE THAN $5 BILLION IN ECONOMIC IMPACT IN THE LATEST 2021 ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDY.

>>FOR EVERY DOLLAR THAT WE SPEND HERE AT KSC, YOU SEE ABOUT A $1.82 SPENT ACROSS THE ENTIRE STATE.

SO THAT'S A PRETTY LARGE RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

>>AND SPACE FLORIDA SAYS AEROSPACE COMPANIES CONTRIBUTED $19 BILLION IN REVENUES FOR THE STATE'S ECONOMY.

LET'S GO BACK TO THE ORLANDO SCIENCE CENTER NOW FOR THAT PART OF OUR CONVERSATION.

>>I THINK IT REINVIGORATES OUR SENSE OF SELF-IDENTITY BECAUSE OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS SINCE SHUTTLE, IT'S ALL BEEN ABOUT ELON MUSK AND AN INNOVATION AND COMMERCIAL SECTOR AND THAT'S AN ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL PART.

I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S REALLY DRIVING A LOT OF THIS.

BUT THEN THE NASA PROGRAM IS THE NATIONAL PROGRAM.

AND I THINK YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE MOVED INTO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE FLORIDA HAS GROWN SO MUCH, WHO WEREN'T HERE FOR THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM.

AND SO THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD THAT SENSE OF BEING A STAKEHOLDER AS A MEMBER OF THE EAST CENTRAL FLORIDA COMMUNITY OR A FLORIDIAN WRIT LARGE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, FROM A SPACE FLORIDA PERSPECTIVE, IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT THE LAUNCHES AND THE LANDING, ALTHOUGH THE FIRE AND SMOKE IS COOL.

THE REAL VALUE IS GOING TO BE AS WE'VE LOWERED THE PRICE TO GET TO ORBIT AND WE CAN BRING MORE HUMAN ACTIVITY UP INTO ZERO GRAVITY OR MICROGRAVITY OR WHATEVER.

YOU'RE OPENING UP A WHOLE NEW VISTA FOR MANUFACTURING, FOR TOURISM, FOR ENERGY PRODUCTION, FOR MINING.

AND HOW DO WE POSITION FLORIDA TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VALUE ADD THAT'S GOING TO BE OCCURRING UP THERE.

>>HOW MUCH OF THIS THEN COMES DOWN TO THE KENNEDY SPACE CENTER'S ABILITY TO FLIP INTO A FUTURE ROLE AS A SPACE PORT, NOT JUST FOR GOVERNMENT NATIONS, BUT FOR ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO GO INTO SPACE?

>>YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S EVIDENT, RIGHT?

THE AMOUNT OF LAUNCHES THAT WE HAVE NOW FROM PRIVATE COMPANIES AT KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, I THINK THIS YEAR WE'RE UP TO 34.

IT'S AMAZING.

THERE'S A HIGH LEVEL OF INTEGRATION THERE AT KENNEDY SPACE CENTER TO INTEGRATE ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMPANIES, ALL THE DIFFERENT ASSETS THAT ARE REQUIRED, RIGHT?

TO SUPPORT ANY LAUNCH AND MIX IN THE ARTEMIS PROGRAM IN THE SLS ROCKET LAUNCHES.

I THINK KENNEDY SPACE CENTER HAS GREAT CAPABILITIES, RIGHT?

WE HAVE LAUNCH PADS.

WE'RE RIGHT BY THE OCEAN.

WE HAVE THE RANGE AVAILABILITY, THE PROVIDE ANY THE INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIRED FOR THESE PRIVATE COMPANIES TO DEVELOP AND BE ABLE TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

>>WE TALKED A BIT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMIC IMPACT THAT HAVING ALL OF THESE PARTNERS HERE MIGHT HAVE.

WHAT IS THIS DOING FOR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND ACADEMIA TO HAVE ALL OF THIS SPACE ACTIVITY HAPPENING SO CLOSE TO CENTRAL FLORIDA?

>>PLACES LIKE UCF AND THE OTHER SCHOOLS IN FLORIDA ARE REALLY WELL POSITIONED TO START PRODUCING PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO FILL THOSE ROLES.

AND IT'S REALLY EXCITING TO SEE ALL OF THESE INDUSTRIES DEVELOP HERE NEAR US WHERE STUDENTS CAN HAVE INTERNSHIPS AND START TO WORK WITH THOSE COMPANIES ALREADY BEFORE THEY EVEN GRADUATE FROM OUR SCHOOLS.

WE ARE ABLE, BY BRINGING MISSIONS TO UCF AND BY DOING OTHER SCIENCE PAYLOADS, WE'RE ABLE TO TRAIN STUDENTS TO WORK ON PAYLOADS AND DO SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS WHILE THEY'RE UNDERGRADS AND GRAD STUDENTS WHO THEN ARE GOING TO BE THE NEXT GENERATION OF PEOPLE PROPOSING TO EXPLORE THE MOON.

I THINK WE'LL BE DEVELOPING PAYLOADS THAT...SO WE'RE CURRENTLY DEVELOPING PAYLOADS THAT WILL GO TO THE MOON.

HOPEFULLY SOMEDAY WE'LL DEVELOP THEM THAT WE TAKE THERE AND DO THE SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS THERE OURSELVES, RIGHT?

HAVE SCIENTISTS AND GEOLOGISTS UP THERE ON THE MOON ACTUALLY DOING THE SCIENCE?

AND I THINK THAT TRAINING THAT NEXT GENERATION IS EVEN MORE EXCITING NOW.

AND WHEN YOU CAN STEP OUT, WHEN YOU CAN GO UP TO THE FIFTH FLOOR OF THE PHYSICS BUILDING AND SEE ROCKET LAUNCHES OR GO ON ONE OF THE GARAGES, RIGHT?

IT'S EXTRA INSPIRING.

>>MM HMM.

>>SO, YEAH, IT'S AN AMAZING PLACE TO BE TO BE INSPIRING THAT KIND OF RESEARCH AND EDUCATION.

>>YOU CAN READ A NASA REPORT PREPARED BY FLORIDA TECH ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE KENNEDY SPACE CENTER ON BREVARD, ON OUR WEBSITE.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND A LINK TO SPACE FLORIDA'S 2021 ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ANNUAL REPORT.

IT'S ALL AT WUCF.ORG/NEWSNIGHT >>WELL, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF NEWSNIGHT.

MY THANKS TO BRENDAN BYRNE FOR JOINING ME FOR THIS IMPORTANT COLLABORATION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, BRENDAN.

BETWEEN WUCF AND OUR PUBLIC MEDIA PARTNERS, 90.7 WMFE NEWS.

MEANWHILE, I'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT AT 8:30 ON WUCF.

FROM ALL OF US HERE AT NEWSNIGHT, TAKE CARE AND HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

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